MegaGlest Forum

Modding and game content creation => Mods => Topic started by: Omega on 27 September 2008, 02:39:51

Title: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 27 September 2008, 02:39:51
Code: [Select]
[url=http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6959/1600x900r.png][img]http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6650/forumsize.png[/img][/url]Click for larger image

Military is a free game mod using the Glest Advanced Engine. It boasts powerful graphics, easy playability, and varying difficulties. Based upon the future, Military will leave you revitalized and wanting more!


About
Many years in the future, in the 2030 era, things are peaceful. Or for the most part, that is. However, not everyone want peace. Some would seek to use distruction and mayhem, threatening the world's balance. Thus, we must fight against these murderers, seeking for eternal peace, someday... Over time, technology has changed in some ways. New resources exist, and populations soar. Weapons have changed little over the past 30 years. Sure, they have grown faster, more powerful, more dangerous, but the basic style has been preserved.

Even
if we defeat those who seek to destroy our planet, another will step forward to take their place. So why do we fight? Why throw away the lives of our soldiers like we would to a rabid dog? Simple, we fight to protect those who cannot protect themselves. We fight for the good of others, with an eternal dream of peace. We most likely will not live to see that day, but we fight so that our children and grandchildren may have better luck than you.

That
, is what Military is.


Easy PlayabilityFun GameplayCustomization
Completely cross platform and open source, Military plays the same, regardless of your system. Intuative tutorials aid new players in becoming skilled, and a simple IP hook-up multiplayer allows for easy jousts with your friends!

The simple icons combined with the ability to translate languages allows for gameplay anywhere, anytime. The use of standardized dependancies such as OpenGL for the graphics allow for easy startup!
With shiny, crisp graphics, a deep powerful RTS gameplay, over 20 missions, a lengthy campaign, and a quick game mode, Military won't run out of fun. The ability to download and create your own environments and maps allow for heavy customization, and numerous tech trees from the original Glest are available.

Over 20 units and 8 upgrades upon maps meant for quick or lengthy games, you have total control over the game. Over 50 maps are available for your pleasure, and the ability to download more will prevent you from ever running out.
In this game, you are the king. What you say goes. Almost every setting is available for you to control, and mods are available for added gameplay. You can change  everything from how long days last, to wether fog of war is on or off, the graphical viewing, the camera position, hotkeys, and much, much more!

The active Glest Advanced Engine community can allow for updates in the future, ensuring that you can get all those shiny new features, all formatted to the max!

See the Official Webpage (http://military.glestguide.co.cc) for a preview and lots of images!

Screenshots:

Code: [Select]
[img]http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9445/military1b.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/290/military2.jpg[/img]
See more images at: http://military.glestguide.co.cc/images.html (http://military.glestguide.co.cc/images.html)

Download:

7zip (OS-Independant):
http://www.filefront.com/17201774/military_24_files.7z

Windows Installer:
http://www.filefront.com/17202038/military_24_install.exe

Linux Installer:
http://www.filefront.com/17202137/military_24_install

Official Homepage (http://military.glestguide.co.cc)  |  Glest Guide (http://glestguide.co.cc)   |   An Omega Production (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5163)  |  ModDB (http://www.moddb.com/mods/apocalyptic-dawn)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: modman on 28 September 2008, 15:01:37
So you made this music?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 28 September 2008, 20:47:15
Yeah, but I already chose the ones I'm using. Here's the problem, something is HORRIBLY wrong, and everything is bad. Like, really bad. The AI is totally screwed up now, for some reason. I never did a thing, and now all the AI don't even harvest resources. They can stand right in front of the any resource and do nothing. They act normal until they run out of resources, then they just wander around and do nothing. (Ultra too!)
 I gotta figure out whats wrong, but jeeze, this is friggin' annoying!!!

I'll upload it if I don't get it fixed myself. (This would have been the final, but the AI is bad) of course, I'll make a lot of scripted scenarios, so that even if the thing doesn't work, I can give you something to do for a bit...)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: modman on 29 September 2008, 00:08:18
I thought you said you fixed it?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 30 September 2008, 18:11:15
I did, but now it's doing it again... Tell you what, does anyone want to do the xmls? Thats a lot, but I'll upload everything
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: modman on 30 September 2008, 22:08:29
Sure, I'll do them, but don't expect them to be done for at least 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 2 October 2008, 21:02:22
Ok, I'll upload sometime soon. Take your time, the credit for the xmls to you then, but I have all models, textures, images, and all ready. I just have to set everything up for you. It will be pretty open, but I will have documents with the original ideas I was using, though you can change it a bit.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: tripsahoy on 2 October 2008, 22:24:16
Your faction is pritty cool
It needs some work though, like some of the modles need work (no offence, Is shouldn't be talk though i dont even know how to make modles)
I noticed that all your units are ranged and it would be cool if you had a MP unit that had an electric knightstick that would make a melee unit?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: John.d.h on 3 October 2008, 00:26:09
Did you ever work out a way for your air cadet to morph into an airship?  I was under the impression that ground units couldn't morph into flying ones successfully.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 3 October 2008, 21:09:25
You can't morph ground to air, so I had the cadet research air flight, and then it could allow the hanger to produce airships, helis, and transport ships.

In other business, the tech tree works fine for the human, but the AI does nothing. I'm going to upload it soon and let someone else give it a shot. (try redoing just the privates (workers) and maybe that'll work...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: John.d.h on 4 October 2008, 02:02:28
Quote from: "omega"
You can't morph ground to air

Damn.  I was hoping to have a priestess unit morph into a phoenix, but I might just have to put it as part of the animation for the Altar building, much like the technician building the ornithopter on tech's aerodrome.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: mictes on 4 October 2008, 07:08:29
Quote
In other business, the tech tree works fine for the human, but the AI does nothing.
I know, I have big problems with that - I don't know from what it comes...
Maybee cause I renamed the buildings ?!

Quote
You can't morph ground to air
Wow, I'll try it ^^
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 4 October 2008, 14:40:47
I think it is someything to do with the worker. The worker doesn't harvest resources, so all the units can do is just build the farm and produce more workers. I'm going to do the private from scratch and hopefully that will help. The music for alpha is new and great. Bravo has alpha's old music. Dang, the alpha faction worked before, but then I edited the xml to remove a failed attempt at gathering oil. (didn't like it, staying with having the oil tank do it) Now the privates do virtually nothing. If I can't fix them, I'll let someone else take a shot.
Quote from: "tripsahoy"
It needs some work though, like some of the modles need work (no offence, Is shouldn't be talk though i dont even know how to make modles)
I noticed that all your units are ranged and it would be cool if you had a MP unit that had an electric knightstick that would make a melee unit?
I am aware that some of the models are a little simple, namely the buildings, and the animation for the flamethrower and paratrooper is the same as the sniper, which don't really suit them. The models aren't at all bad though. Just the buildings are overally simple. Not a big deal, and I'm satisfied with them.

I'll change the name of this thread to 'Military Tech Tree -- Final Download Available!' when I fix it. (If I fix it) Mictes, maybe that's the problem, sometimes when you edit the worker unit, even if there is nothing wrong with the unit, it may get 'corrupted' and not work.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: mictes on 4 October 2008, 14:45:43
*Little-bit-Offtopic*
My workers does harvest ressources. Did you add a new ressource (which need to be harvested/mined) ? Remove it and try again - that solved this problem when I had it. But now I have a new, the worker does AI just the farm and then harvesting and mine without any end...

But this theme should be not diskussed here, cause this is the military-techtree thread ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 4 October 2008, 15:04:56
I do have all new resources in here (gold, metal, lumber, rations, and oil) rations is food, oil cannot be harvested by the private. I'll try building up the worker from scratch if that doesn't work, I'll try adding a way to gather oil. (though I'd rather not. Oil is supposed to be a very valuable resource that only oil tanks can gather)

Quote from: "OMEGA"
By the way, I am making a Underworld faction to go with magitech. Check out it's topic!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: modman on 9 October 2008, 01:12:53
I don't think you should just quit this faction.  Upload what you have and maybe I can figure it out?  The CPUs don't just decide to not do anything.  The problem is somewhere in the XMLs.  But if I or you or someone else did find it, it would be an interesting lesson in what not to do (no offence).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 9 October 2008, 01:17:34
I promise you that I will NOT quit this faction. I spent countless hours working on it and I'm not going to see it go down the drain. I am going to try the strategies I listed earlier, and if they fail, I'll upload it for someone else to give a shot.

I am not the only one to see this. Someone else saw it with tech before!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: modman on 14 October 2008, 22:33:44
New strategy: Check the AI log.  It tells you what the AI is thinking.

Also, could you please please please work on a unit or two for my Dark Magic? :}
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: mictes on 15 October 2008, 08:23:29
I have no AI log... ?!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: @kukac@ on 15 October 2008, 13:53:40
In the configurator.exe, at the misc tab, you can enable AI log.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 16 October 2008, 02:52:59
Sorry, I've been away for a bit... And I have a HUGE school report to do, and two tests coming up, so I won't have much time... I read the AI logs often, and I know what's wrong. The AI (for some reason) doesn't harvest resources, so has to cancel most other commands. Give me some time please!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: modman on 17 October 2008, 01:43:25
I understand homework, believe me.  So I'll make it easier for you;  I'll download it and fix the XML for you and post it myself.  Somehow I'd like credit...Also, do you think you want to make any models for my Dark Magic faction, or not?  You'll have a reason do download it this time for beta 3.0; the units I might keep (depending upon how much help I get in the models department) are reskinned for this release.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 17 October 2008, 22:50:46
I'll upload the version I got so far. It has all the sounds, improvised textures, and both factions. I'll try to upload it at school son, probably monday to wednesday. As for the credits, I will have an HTML read me in the pack that has tips, credits, and stuff.

As for models for DM, Modman, have no fear. I'm pretty busy with the Underworld faction, so I can't do anything drastic there, but I am about to do the 'Rage of the Tiki' or whatever it's called very soon. Here's more good news: I have the Lucifer unit from the Underworld faction. It is a dark angel. I just finished texturing and animating it yesterday. It is poorly textured, and the animation is a bit sloppy, but in glest that's not very noticable. It is an air unit with the following animations: attack, still, move, die, and special (spell). If you'd like to use it, tell me, and I'll upload it for you to use in DM. Of course, you'd have to give me credit, but it might fit with DM. Tell me what you think!

And I need more description. I have to retype this part because my internet crashed AGAIN when I tried to submit it... (gotta copy before I hit submit, and maybe not update adobe reader at the same time...) So I will have a 'blinking' still animation, were it blinks it's eyes. I will also have an attack animation were it come up just a little bit to let off it's magical spurt. Next, I will have it 'die' which I think it should 'crumble' and sink into a void that will open beneath it. Please tell me what you want, so I can make it the way you meant it to be!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: modman on 18 October 2008, 04:30:23
Thank you so much omega!  I would be honored if you worked on the Fury of the Tiki (if ANYONE has a better name for this unit, please tell me any I will gleefully ponder it.  Given that the name is pretty bad as it stands now, it doesn’t look like I’ve set the bar too high.  But it has to be a good name though!) for me.  But be warned: it is my favorite unit in Dark Magic, and in Glest for that matter.  So I’m probably going to be kind of picky on what it looks like and how it is animated.

And if you’re going to do the Fury of the Tiki, why don’t you do the Stoneman too?  It’s literally almost the same thing, except that it has no vines and its eyes don’t glow blue.  (Crap, my images are black and white so nobody but me would ever know that…)  It doesn’t even need any animations.  I’ll post an image of it sometime later.

And about your Dark Angel, omega…Thanks for the thought, but I don’t really need a Dark Angel.  I’ve got enough  units as it is; what I DO need though: ideas about my Imp unit (really a Flying Imp, but I don’t have any other imps so I can get away with it).  I have some artwork for it already courtesy of Google, but pretty much nothing else.  I haven’t really even worked out what it should cost, move speed etc.  What does it look like when it attacks?

Please respond, but could we take this discussion to its proper place, at the Dark Magic topic?  Again, thanks a ton.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: gameboy on 19 October 2008, 08:23:29
Quote from: "modman"
if ANYONE has a better name for this unit, please tell me any I will gleefully ponder it.
How about Moai, you know the stone heads from Easter island.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: ZaggyDad on 19 October 2008, 20:19:44
Quote from: "Modman"
(if ANYONE has a better name for this unit, please tell me any I will gleefully ponder it.  Given that the name is pretty bad as it stands now, it doesn’t look like I’ve set the bar too high.  But it has to be a good name though!)

Fury of the Tiki is way better than anything I think I could come up with. You should just call it that. :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 20 October 2008, 01:24:22
Agreed
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 20 October 2008, 21:08:31
Here's the beta so far. Not quite the final. Credits are included.
http://http://www.mediafire.com/?det1j11fwsn
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: bisurge on 29 October 2008, 01:44:54
Hurry up dude! I'm itching just to play a non-glitched version of the military tech tree!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- beta-2 download soon!
Post by: Omega on 2 November 2008, 22:08:11
Don't look at me...
Where's modman?
(ARGH)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: modman on 3 November 2008, 23:46:57
Oh, I didn't know i was responsible for this...I'm on it!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: Omega on 4 November 2008, 15:37:28
Thanks!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: modman on 4 November 2008, 22:46:09
Wow this is harder than I thought!  But a few thoughts:

I think that the two factions, Alpha and Bravo, should be combined into one faction.  It would be a lot easier that way, and it would be cooler.

Another thing is that it seems every defensive unit you have does an upgrade--just make one upgrade for all of those and put it in the Nuclear Reactor or something.

I really like that Scarab unit a lot!

I've checked the AI log, and given them soldiers in the beginning with alph.xml and that didn't even work.  I'll keep working on it, but it will probably set back the release of Dark Magic v 3.0 a bit (I know I keep puching it back, but...).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: Omega on 6 November 2008, 02:15:18
Have you tried doing just the private (worker) from scratch? The problem seems to start at them.

And I don't want to combine the factions because they would have to go against eachother, and then there would be no unique units.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: modman on 6 November 2008, 04:52:11
Yes, I have been honing in on the Private (I actually renamed it Worker just to be on the safe side...) and one thing I found was that even a human cannot promote it to a Soldier.  That's because of your discount value==40.  Are there any other places like that that you want me to know about?

My reasoning for wanting to combine bravo and alpha is twofold:
1) The two factions aren't that different from each other.  When I combine the factions, I'll keep what I believe to be the best of both.  They will definately have the Robot Warriors and the Scarab, for instance.

2) A bigger tech tree can be far more fun to play, once I get all the bugs out.  Plus, it's never been done before, and since Military is a different tech tree, it's OK to do that.  A bigger tech tree will pose more strategic possibilities as well.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: modman on 6 November 2008, 06:55:47
OK, just browsing through ancient archives of long ago, and I found this (http://http://glest.org/glest_board/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=791).

Apparently AI problems have happened more than once before.

Too bad nobody solved the problem and tought us a lesson...I guess it doesn't pay as much as some would like to think to remember the past! =]

I also found this (http://http://glest.org/glest_board/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1288) and it cracked me up!!!  Especially the fact that his wierd poll had only one vote, probably his own!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: modman on 7 November 2008, 02:36:46
OK I've gotten the AI to mine gold now, and nothing else.  They also can promote themselves to soldiers and build the farm.

But they do not produce cows from the farm.  They build more farms to get more rations.
They also do not build the Command Station, and the only resource they harvest is gold.

I'll keep on it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: Omega on 7 November 2008, 04:57:56
HA HA! That post is FUNNY! Your doing good, and if you want, go ahead and make a copy of the techtree with the factions as one superfaction, but that'll mean a lot more work for you. You never know, it just might make it possible to get everything to work... Also, try adding a mine oil command. (Never know... But I'm not sure which animation you'd use then...)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: modman on 7 November 2008, 05:08:29
I think the Workers should upgrade to the robot worker guy, and the robot worker could be the one harvesting oil.

I fixed the bug by removing all starting units except the fortress...Hope it's alright (it should be; there won't be any balencing problems!) if that's the only way.

Also, I think daniel.santos could help us a little.  I'll name off the symptoms, maybe he finds something genius...who knows?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: Omega on 7 November 2008, 05:09:55
Yeah, so by that, do you mean the whole thing works? Or is it just the alpha faction or what?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: modman on 7 November 2008, 05:18:40
No.  The AI can only build a Farm, promote its workers, and mine gold.

I was speaking hypothetically earlier.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: Omega on 7 November 2008, 17:57:02
Oh, okay.
And when your done (if you manage to get it to work) can you give me the download link via email (not post it on the board) so that I can add the documentation and a few more scripted scenarios.

If you don't manage to fix it, I guess then you can upload it to me again and I can give it one last shot... :-X
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: bisurge on 10 November 2008, 06:03:05
Quote from: "omega"
And when your done (if you manage to get it to work) can you give me the download link via email (not post it on the board)

Somebody doesn't trust us. :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: Omega on 10 November 2008, 19:32:02
Quote from: "bisurge"
Somebody doesn't trust us. :(
Hah hah, actually, Its just because I want to add a bunch of scenarios and stuff, as well as I did not give modman the main menu models and images to take up less memory.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: modman on 12 November 2008, 22:20:00
Plus, he has to OK it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: Omega on 15 November 2008, 00:21:36
Yep. I think that as long as it works, even if you have to change a bunch of names, remove starting units, and even combine them into a superfaction, I'd okay it. The problem with a super faction is that it would be huge, and the existing maps might not be big enough (I made custom maps for the tech tree, since the scarab needs a lot of space, and the maps are kinda cool! There's a maze map that is actually very simple, but very confusing to the human players.)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: modman on 17 November 2008, 01:27:17
Don't do maze maps.

I have the tech tree done, but I'm going to need a few units.  I'll email you descriptions and a tech tree diagram when I get time...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Calling on Modman!
Post by: Omega on 22 November 2008, 19:03:06
I got the email, now I just need you to email me a link to the download, then I'll start making the models. (there's a lot. But it's nice to be able to fix it up to make the faction better)

How'd you do the mine though? I made a mine for underworld by giving it low hp and once a foe got close, it'd attack and end up killing itself in the explosion. (mine style) But in military all those ranged units work against that, so how'd you do it? (New defense type perhaps?)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: mictes on 22 November 2008, 20:14:02
Huu, I have a good Idea belong that - Icould'n make it because I still have big trouble with blender...
Did anyone of you played stronghold ?

Murderpit

->> Something like a masked hole from that shark stakes comes out and kill you when you walk over it.
      But this does work just one times, than it get broken.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 23 November 2008, 01:01:46
It seems you understand the basic concept of the mine.  That is exactly how I was thinking of designing the mine to be.  The mines will be low cost anyhow, and that's what it would be like in real life: you can detonate mines from far away (but with a radio-controlled detonator)

The mine will take away about 1200 HP and have one range and about 700 HP itself, thus it will "commit suicide" itself.  We could give it really high regen so that in essence you cannot kill it if you would like, but I would advise against that.

I was hoping you would email me the link, and I'll put it together, because there's still some things to do once I have the models (start time, particle proj offset etc)  Also, because I have to make sure you did something remotely like what was supposed to happen.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 23 November 2008, 08:06:08
Quote from: "modman"
It seems you understand the basic concept of the mine.  That is exactly how I was thinking of designing the mine to be.  The mines will be low cost anyhow, and that's what it would be like in real life: you can detonate mines from far away (but with a radio-controlled detonator)

The mine will take away about 1200 HP and have one range and about 700 HP itself, thus it will "commit suicide" itself.  We could give it really high regen so that in essence you cannot kill it if you would like, but I would advise against that.

I was hoping you would email me the link, and I'll put it together, because there's still some things to do once I have the models (start time, particle proj offset etc)  Also, because I have to make sure you did something remotely like what was supposed to happen.

Mines would not be a good idea. People would just create a wall of mines and set it off... unless of course you make transport ships or something. Mines don't affect air units right?

Also, hurry up before I pee in my pants.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 23 November 2008, 21:56:34
You cannot set them off whenever you wish because there would be no attack command, just the skill.
They only attack when an enemy is within range.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 28 November 2008, 00:40:19
Quote from: "modman"
I was hoping you would email me the link, and I'll put it together, because there's still some things to do once I have the models (start time, particle proj offset etc)  Also, because I have to make sure you did something remotely like what was supposed to happen.
Sure, but I want more description on the new units, as well as a list of animations, attacks, particle models, etc; Basically a list of everything...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 29 November 2008, 01:23:43
I can do everything except modeling and animations and texturing, so don't worry about that.
Also a description will take a little more time, so...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 30 November 2008, 05:09:13
...so I'll wait... *yawn* Done yet? :O
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 17 December 2008, 05:38:07
:( How long does it take?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 17 December 2008, 15:32:55
Ask Modman.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 17 December 2008, 23:38:37
I have a break starting in a week.  I'll finish it then.  Plus, I'm still waiting for some models [cough, cough ...Omega...].
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 18 December 2008, 15:43:39
Plus I'm waiting for instructions for modelling. (*cough*cough*Modman*cough)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 20 December 2008, 08:30:14
Plus I'm waiting for you guys to finish. (*cough* HURRY THE **** UP!!! *cough*)
:P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 21 December 2008, 21:03:03
lol, I understand. Don't worry, I'll try to hurry as fast as possible. Just waitin' for modman. What's the good word?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 22 December 2008, 00:31:28
My break starts Wednesday.  Hopefully I can get the descriptions done by Thursday?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 28 December 2008, 02:12:47
Ooh, too late. Today's Saturday!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 28 December 2008, 02:15:10
Sorry, a slight miscalculation.  I had CHRISTMAS Thursday.  I have break until next Sunday, anyways.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 28 December 2008, 02:32:31
Don't keep track to good... How'd you mix up christmas though???  :O
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 28 December 2008, 03:14:55
I generally don't know whatt day of the week something is...I probably know how many days away it is though.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 28 December 2008, 03:56:14
It's either negative two days away or 363 days away. Depends on how you count it...  :O (Well, at least this smilie works)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: firedeathbot on 31 December 2008, 03:20:18
looks good, keep up the progress
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 31 December 2008, 11:24:08
Modman, I really love the Military Ideas from the email.

Heres a few responses to it:
Ooh, 13 new models not including new ideas and buildings. This may take some time. In fact, it could take a number of months, since I want to make this one better. Anyone know how to fix the blender 'glinch' where the unit seems to break when animated? The poligons move, but dont stretch, and this is very bad looking... Also, if anyone knows how to animate the tank, feel free to do it. If you want to help, here's the modeling guide that modman made (in an html format) http://http://www.mediafire.com/?zmgzhdeoc9w. Hope at least someone can help out cause it took forever to upload this thing, my internet kept losing sync...

Heres a gif showing the mines animation. Since the mine has only two frames, gif animation is possible. It will not look exactly the same in glest, because gifs can only hold 256 colors and the actual model has one light that comes a split second before the rest (I tried to fix it, but...) either way, it doesnt affect it much. I used a GIF because it is easier to upload. Note that some internet connections may not allow the animation.
[attachment=0:3kkz0g3g]mine.gif[/attachment:3kkz0g3g]

Oh, and modman, where'd you get the pictures from? Think you can do the same for some other units such as the field medic and buildings? I'd really like a new command center, but I'm not sure how to make one that would be small enough to fit in glest! :lol: )

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 31 December 2008, 20:19:03
The mine looks great.  keep in mind it needs to fit one tile.

Imagine a Dragon from Magic, with its wings fully extended, being one unit wide.  The Stealth Bomber is 1.5 units wide.

The SAM Infantry is a Bazooka soldier, but that sounds really dumb, so call it a SAM Infantry.

The elctrobatonman could be called a saberman or electro-saberman or light-saberman.  I don't think I would be able to get pictures for the buildings.  Sorry.  His light saber is always elongated, it never is short.

DEFINATELY ditch stone for metal.  That might solve AI problems.

I got the pictures from screenshots using Civilization IV.  I edited them to fit the purpose.

And yes, I might work on the textures if you give me the plain UV map as a TGA.  What you have done, just making a gradient over the whole area is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 1 January 2009, 21:48:36
Gradients are a bad idea, yeah :lol:

I'm going to make a guard tower for a building. I'm not 100% sure yet, but I think this version of military will be completely different, with new units and just one faction. I'll make a new topic once I get the units decided.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: John.d.h on 2 January 2009, 04:30:38
Quote from: "omega"
How does one animate a tanks treads?
The same way two porcupines -- err... I mean... here you go.
http://download.blender.org/documentati ... racks.html (http://download.blender.org/documentation/oldsite/oldsite.blender3d.org/166_Blender%20tutorial%20Tank%20tracks.html)
Quote
The SAM Infantry is basically a basooka soldier, right? I think he'll be very slow and highly effective against tanks.
SAM = Surface to Air Missile.  He'd be garbage against tanks, but good against planes and choppers.  If you're looking for an anti-tank soldier, I'd just call him an RPG Trooper if I were you.  That way he could be good against aircraft, tanks, or both.
Quote
I'm going to put underworld temporarily on hold until I finish this. I started this first, so it's only fair I finish it first too!
Focus, boy!  You've got too many projects going at once. :O
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 2 January 2009, 19:33:23
Quote from: "johndh"
The same way two porcupines -- err... I mean... here you go.
http://download.blender.org/documentati ... racks.html (http://download.blender.org/documentation/oldsite/oldsite.blender3d.org/166_Blender%20tutorial%20Tank%20tracks.html)
Geeze, this looks complex. I'm gonna save this webpage and save the tank for last. It's from 2001, though. Wonder if it's still good... Anyone got a  newer one (or easier)?
Quote from: "johndh"
SAM = Surface to Air Missile.  He'd be garbage against tanks, but good against planes and choppers.  If you're looking for an anti-tank soldier, I'd just call him an RPG Trooper if I were you.
Hmm, SAM doesn't really work then. We want a unit that carries a bazooka, don't we? It should be strong against tanks, but I agree, Bazooka Soldier sounds a little poor. Anyone got a better name? Advanced Soldier, revolutionary, anti-tank whatever, etc, etc?

And, yeah, I started another project, but I'll get it done when I get it done (I guess). :O\

I've created a temporary 'tree' for the tech tree.

@Modman, submit your ideas and other units which I haven't been told about yet. Changes may be made.
[attachment=0:24owagc4]military.jpg[/attachment:24owagc4]

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: John.d.h on 3 January 2009, 01:09:49
Quote from: "omega"
Hmm, SAM doesn't really work then. We want a unit that carries a bazooka, don't we? It should be strong against tanks, but I agree, Bazooka Soldier sounds a little poor. Anyone got a better name? Advanced Soldier, revolutionary, anti-tank whatever, etc, etc?
Other possibilities:
Feel free to replace "Trooper" with "Soldier", "Infantry", or whatever else fits the bill, of course.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 3 January 2009, 02:43:20
Actually I have my own idea, but it doesn't matter because I'm doing XMLs (no it won't be going past 2010  :O ).  I'll show my tech tree diagram shortly.

PS Omega do you have Office 2007 because I could just send you the PowerPoint.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: John.d.h on 3 January 2009, 02:50:38
Some nit-picking and assorted other thoughts.

First, the nit-picking: Grenadier, Hangar, Headquarters.  Some of these might just be international spelling differences, though, so they may or may not be technically correct... oh, and don't you people spell "armor" with a 'u'? :O

Second, the other stuff:

I'm not sure that the farm idea makes a whole lot of sense.  If this is supposed to be a modern military base, I doubt they'll be growing their own food, milking their own cattle, etc.  I think using power as a resource instead of food would be better.  Maybe both (buildings require power, soldiers require rations/supplies)?  Still, then the rations/supplies would probably come from something like a supply drop-zone, kinda like the one in C&C:Generals, but serving a different purpose.

There doesn't seem to be any defensive structures in your tree.  Might I suggest a machine gunner for anti-ground and a SAM battery for anti-air?  The gunner would be a mobile unit, but he'd have to stop to set up his gun before he could fire (i.e. morph).  The SAM battery could also be mobile if it were mounted on a truck or something.

As for air units, do you really think a stealth fighter is a good idea?  First of all, planes have to keep moving or they'll fall (VSTOL fighters like the Harrier are an exception, but they can only hover for a limited time), so they'd have to take off, attack, and then fly back to land, but to the best of my knowledge Glest doesn't really have a way of doing that.  Secondly, the whole idea of having a stealth is that the enemy can't see it, and I'm pretty sure there's no way to do that yet either.  The obvious solution here is to use a helicopter instead.  If you wanted to have two different air units, you could have the heli and then a tiltrotor aircraft (think V-22 Osprey) which would be faster and more expensive and would probably require an additional technological advance.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 3 January 2009, 02:54:40
There was a helicopter, but I opted not to reuse it because it wasn't exactly as good as I wouldv'e liked.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 11 January 2009, 02:57:45
How long? :(
Seriously, I've been waiting forever for a decent free RTS where you shoot each other with guns.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: RTSman on 11 January 2009, 23:48:44
how long what.  what you want is a FPS game
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 12 January 2009, 03:56:14
Quote
Omega do you have Office 2007 because I could just send you the PowerPoint.
I use Open Office, so as long as it is .PP and NOT .PPX or whatever the new format is, you're good.

Now everyone else, I am working on the website, and have been doing so long hand around the clock. It's coded long hand, and makes heavy use of CSS and <DIV>. It'll be up before the end of the week. Hopefully it will answer some questions. The units page there states that there is an AA-Launcher which shoots six Surface to Air Missles for heavy air damage, and the watch tower actually is a defensive unit (yeah, it's a producer and a defender, new functions, gotta flaunt it).

I agree about the farm, any ideas?

And concerning the stealth fighter, please don't complain, cause I spent like eight hours modeling and texturing it to perfection... :'-(

And in case anyone wants to shoot things, I recommend Halo 3. Of course, if you want to shoot things in Glest, THis is your dream come true (and a pacifist's nightmare!)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 12 January 2009, 07:42:51
how long what.  what you want is a FPS game

Do you know what RTS stands for?
Right now starcraft is old.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 13 January 2009, 03:03:51
FPS=First Person Shooter
RTS=Real Time Strategy

Anyhooo...
I have the tech tree diagram that I procratinated into showing below.
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1cbed682047452fd7736966e625ac2766g.jpg)
Questions? Comments? Please ask away; my brain is fully functional!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 13 January 2009, 04:30:56
Oh, and like I replied in the email Modman, I'm going to try to take our ideas, merge them together, and I'll send it to you, if you like it, we can get started and I'll release the website (gotta redo the units). However, if you don't, you can make some changes to that tech tree until we are both satisfied that it's good, sound good? :-P (And the smilies aren't working, so this'll do)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: titi on 13 January 2009, 14:23:03
wow, this is a monster techtree!
Do you think all this will ever be build in a normal glest match?
There are enough units and buildings for two or three factions.
I think you will need special designed maps for all these buildings/units.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: mictes on 13 January 2009, 14:37:14
13K have two factions and everyone of it have 34 units ;-)
13K need specially maps, but this here not.Look again at the techtree:
The Grenadier can produce a mine, the humve can produce a mine (mines are so small...)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: John.d.h on 13 January 2009, 20:20:47
Holy smokes that's a huge tech tree.  Um... just so you know, a hangar is a place for aircraft, so it's not really where you'd make your tanks... and why does your humvee produce units?  That's just silly.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 14 January 2009, 02:30:59
Maybe they can make a limited amount of units, like when you make a humvee it comes supplied with units inside.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 14 January 2009, 02:58:55
For the Humvee, I just wanted a Summoner-like unit for this faction so it can be as mobile as possible.  The Humvee was the best I could come up with, but I'm always listening to suggestions!

Also, it's just a visual problem here, but the Tank is built by the Automaton...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: John.d.h on 14 January 2009, 03:20:19
Also, it's just a visual problem here, but the Tank is built by the Automaton...
Oh, right.  I just read the diagram wrong.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 14 January 2009, 17:49:38
I have a new tech tree map that I gotta upload (on my school computers right now). It improves some things, and I'll let you guys decide if you like it. Although I just can't imagine a summoner type unit here. Not sure if that's all that good. I mean, the unit can't move, which goes against the high speed of the humvee.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 14 January 2009, 22:47:10
Military is versitile, so I needed to make a mobile military producer.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 15 January 2009, 01:11:44
How's the AI going? I don't want to play against enemies that just sit there.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 15 January 2009, 01:56:29
It's...coming along.  I believe I found the problem, but I'm waiting on units' models.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 16 January 2009, 04:47:33
Here's a new rendering of a possible tech tree:

(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1263/militarytechtreemapiz3.jpg)

And a brief description of some new units and upgrades:
~Automaton - Robot Worker (needs Artificial Intelligence upgrade)
~Surveillance - Increases sight of outpost from 15 to 25
~Plutonium Extraction - Allows the use of the nuclear special attack, requires explosives, titanium refining, and the automaton
~Artificial Intelligence - Allows the constuction of robots (Automaton)
~Titanium Refining - Increases the defense of the Tank, Stealth Bomber, and Humvee
~Stealth Research - Allows the creation of the stealth bomber
~Aerodymics - Increases speed, defense, and attack power of the Stealth Bomber
~Explosives - Allows the production of the IED, Grenader, and RPG Trooper

Nearly every model will be remodelled except the following, which are either good already or done:
-Private (fine)
-Reactor (fine)
-Factory (fine)
-Outpost (done)
-Stealth Bomber (done)

This is not the final version of the layout, and is subject to change.
@Modman, please submit your opinions of the layout and ideas, once we get the perfect tech tree map, I'll start modeling the other units, starting with the Humvee, which I think will be fun to mod, especially the burnt out 'dead' model.

Summary: Once we agree on a tech tree map, I'll get to work with modelling and stuff, and it'll get done soon. Finals are next week (22nd), so I may be a bit slow. Sorry.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: firedeathbot on 16 January 2009, 04:48:19
looks cool, simililar to something i did a year or so ago, cept i used a tanks and planes, i just was too lazy to animate and rig human models at the time. after ive started back, blender isnt bad its texturing and animating that kills me, also glexemel is broken on ym cpu, if u need help can i have the xmls and see if i can find any probs?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 16 January 2009, 05:02:55
You'll have to talk to modman about the xmls. I feel the opposite though. I don't mind animating, though texturing can be  pain, though unwrapping is the hardest. Modeling is somewhat in the middle, but depends on the model.

I'll happily borrow any models (unanimated, untextured or not) and give you credit. ;-D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: titi on 17 January 2009, 00:45:39
hi, did I miss something?
What's the current available download, still beta1?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 17 January 2009, 03:12:18
We're still waiting for models to be done, but Omega is it OK to release a beta without all new models?  The only new model I have is the Stealth Bomber.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 17 January 2009, 21:29:47
Can you wait just a bit at least? I am almost done the private and I just have to do a bunch of animations, and I already have the models for the marine and infantry, but they haven't been animated yet either. Here's an image of the private so far. For some reason, the G3D viewer is positioning the shadows backwards, which means this is kinda hard to see the detail in it, but it'll look normal in the glest's shadows.
For this picture, I increased the brightness just a bit (but not too much less the unit look weird) just so that it'd be easier to see the details through those shadows. Tell me what you think, this wasn't an easy unit at all!

EDIT// The image is down. Be back up soon.

I also have completed all the weapons with very good textures, and I have them in a zip I was going to upload, but my internet is going so s__ty right now, so they'll have to wait. They're all in G3D and I don't know why I made the weapons first, but it's a good sign my modeling and texturing is improving...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 18 January 2009, 03:55:18
OK fine. (releaf) I'm kind of in no position to release a beta myself (alpha, whatever) so I was just testing the waters.  Don't worry, my position can change fast though!
BTW because of the icy chill from Canada, I've had a five day weekend.  Friday and Thursday were cancelled due to cold, and Martin Luther King Jr. Day is Monday.  Awesome! (It's not all good; 6 people died due to cold)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: titi on 18 January 2009, 19:04:03
If you have problems with shadows its usually a problem with the normals of the faces.
Glest uses these normals to calculate shadows and lihting.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 20 January 2009, 03:53:22
BTW because of the icy chill from Canada, I've had a five day weekend.  Friday and Thursday were cancelled due to cold, and Martin Luther King Jr. Day is Monday.
Awe, man. I'm from Canada (the prairies) and I had to go to school. Today warmed up to +5 degrees Celsius though. Woo!

Yes, I've been nicely hard at work, and these are the actual models. They haven't been animated yet and are still .blend (with the exception of the private, which is half animated).
Code: [Select]
[IMG]http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6459/privateimage1rt7.jpg[/img]
[IMG]http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4781/marinecb7.jpg[/img]
[IMG]http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/1373/infantryhv6.jpg[/img]
[IMG]http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/838/medicoo4.jpg[/img]
[IMG]http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3940/specialopxk4.jpg[/img]
[IMG]http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8519/flamethrowerta3.jpg[/img]
[IMG]http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1445/tankbg1.jpg[/img]

Whew... I was going to upload the weapons g3d pack too, but mediafire's crashing for me on both safari and firefox, so I am uploading the pictures on imageshack.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: gameboy on 20 January 2009, 05:22:20
Whoa! super models omega, hope this turns out great!!!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 20 January 2009, 22:14:58
Okay, that Marine is holding an AK-47... I hope it's rapid fire (like the gun in Nilihirian Rebirth is), because that gun has extremely high accuracy, extremely high damage, extremely high rate of fire... EXTREMELY X10 HIGH RECOIL which means it'll miss a lot... If you want to make the game realistic, make its damage 0-something, because it will in fact miss a lot. Also, the AK-47 is a general-use gun in all countries except Britain and America. The Infantry looks like he's holding an American M1-Garand or a German semi-automatic Gewehr... both from WWII. That does not match up with the Special Ops and Marine, who are wielding modern day guns. Today, the only wide-use semi-automatic rifles are sniper rifles... and that gun does not have a scope. So in accordance with everything else, it's not a very accurate rendering, since those guns are outdated and not very effective nowadays. The Special Ops looks like he's holding a MP5 without a shoulder rest, which is pretty common if your not going to be going into pitch combat and gunning the whole time. It also looks like it has a silencer (I think that's what the extension is), which makes Special Ops missions much easier. However, the clip on the gun (ammo holder) looks as though it belonged to an MP44, an assault rifle from earlier times used mainly by the Germans during WWII.

I'm not asking you to change anything, just noting the realistic inaccuracies.

EDIT: The MP5 is a submachine gun, so I hope that's also rapid fire.
Also, you should give the tanks 2 attacks: a weak machine gun, and a much stronger cannon, to keep up with what a tank is today.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: titi on 20 January 2009, 23:19:44
wow, you really made all these models?
That's fantastic work! Can we see an ingamescreenshot yet?

One thing: please, dont't make the techtree too big.
Better make 2 factions from it, it should really be fun to play with these nice models!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 21 January 2009, 01:25:46
Actually, the plan was to make one big faction.  Sorry!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 21 January 2009, 04:27:03
Does anyone else care about the rapid fire, realistic inaccuracies, etc? Especially the rapid fire. I don't want a Marine running around with a big AK-47 (or AK-74, they look about the same) Assault Rifle, only to fire single bullets. Or a guy running around with an MP5 Submachine gun shooting single shots. I can understand the Infantryman with his WWII gun, but can someone clear this up for me: Do the units fire rapidly or are they single shot?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: @kukac@ on 21 January 2009, 14:06:09
These weapons (AK-74/AK-47/M4A1/M16A2) has 2 or more fire modes, single, and burst (3 bullets/shot). AKs and M4 has also full auto mode.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: wciow on 21 January 2009, 19:36:43
Does anyone else care about the realistic inaccuracies, etc?

Yeah I agree with you. The models are really good but seem to be a random mix and match of modern and WWII era units and weapons.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 21 January 2009, 21:20:26
I guess I never thought about it before.  This one is tricky.  It should probably be pruned to be most appropriate to what is needed in the faction, but there aren't that many guys with normal guns anyhow; most have a special weapon like a laser (not so sure about that one) or a plasma cannon or a taser rifle (made that one up independently if i do say so myself!).

I didn't actually request a specific weapon with the models, but if I thought I would meet this harsh of an investigation, I would have specified them.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 21 January 2009, 22:46:08
I guess I never thought about it before.  This one is tricky.  It should probably be pruned to be most appropriate to what is needed in the faction, but there aren't that many guys with normal guns anyhow; most have a special weapon like a laser (not so sure about that one) or a plasma cannon or a taser rifle (made that one up independently if i do say so myself!).

I didn't actually request a specific weapon with the models, but if I thought I would meet this harsh of an investigation, I would have specified them.

Sorry modman.
You're my idol :P. When I start coding and stuff your the kind of coder I'd want to be.
But i also know my guns. Please don't make it laser, plasma cannon, or taser rifle; those are pretty boring (except for maybe the plasma cannon). Actual BULLETS would be extremely nice. Also their uniforms don't match. No pressure. But just make the MP5 clip (ammo holder) straight, make the AK-47 (or 74) rapid fire, with actual bullets for all the guns, put a scope on that WWII gun, put two attacks on the tank (machine gun and main cannon), and you're good to go. Sorry I'm so critical.

EDIT: The first model looks like a German officer. Except with a black uniform instead of a gray one.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: John.d.h on 22 January 2009, 18:27:24
Rapid-fire guns should have splash damage.  After all, when you empty an entire magazine into somebody, you're not just going to hit him, but everyone around him, including your own guys (!) if they're in the way.  This would be especially important for very rapid ones like the machine gun turret which would probably be spraying out hundreds or even thousands of rounds per minute.  Not all of that lead is going to go where you want it to and anybody standing within a few feet of the target is going to get punctured.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 22 January 2009, 21:05:00
This is gettting more complex than it has to be. Its an MP-40 to settle this. Not an AK-41. Does that make things better?
Also, the field doctor will have a berretta (sp) on three shot mode. Thought that'd be cool. I'm not going to be able to animate them for a moment, since I am doing final exams until next week, so I'm going to be studying most of the time. The units have been decided, and as a spoiler, the super tank is evolved from the tank (no pics yet). I am still not sure how to animate the tank, and I am trying to see how it'll look in glest with the treads. Dang, this is hard.

You're my idol :-P. When I start coding and stuff your the kind of coder I'd want to be.
Glest isn't really coding. It's XMLs, which you can learn in a day or two (I did). Real coding (C++) is a lot harder. I don't mean to sound rude, but I think I could code better than modman there. I still am no match for people like Hailstone or Daniel, but then again, I'm only 14 (same with Modman). = -D

The private is almost done. To make this simple, don't worry about the accuracy of gones in reality. This isn't reality and this is an RTS, not a FPS. Lots of difference there.

I also don't want the uniforms to match. You need to be able to see the differences with glest's camera easily.

Over and out.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 22 January 2009, 21:07:35
Okay, so an MP40 instead of an AK-47? Sure. But it looks like an AK-47, and MP40s are also rapid fires. And what are you going to do about the MP5 and the desert dank? They didn't have those in WWII. They didn't have nukes either. BTW, MP40 is a German submachine gun, the equivalent to a Thompson.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 23 January 2009, 15:25:16
This is getting more complexe than it should be. I'll just call it 'a gun' and say its from year X for when ever this takes place. I'm actually not worrying too much about technical things like that. I just want a fun faction that is very versatile. I mean, how often do you get the chance to NUKE someone?

... Yeah, that's what I thought. The faction is just meant to be fun to play, not politically correct.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: modman on 23 January 2009, 22:37:39
OFF TOPIC, but important to point out:
Okay, so an MP40 instead of an AK-47? Sure. But it looks like an AK-47, and MP40s are also rapid fires. And what are you going to do about the MP5 and the desert dank? They didn't have those in WWII. They didn't have nukes either. BTW, MP40 is a German submachine gun, the equivalent to a Thompson.

Japan, you may remember was set back several decades by a nuke!
Reading what you say, Omega, I agree.  It's important to remember that you won't be able to tell what kind of gun it is in game.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 23 January 2009, 23:38:10
Heh. I should learn XML and try making my own mods.
I have some pretty good ideas that I actually want to put to action.
EDIT: Hey, can you make the guns three shot burst? It'd look a lot cooler, even though it wouldn't make a difference (just make it one damage but have 3 gunshot animation).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: tucho on 24 January 2009, 18:45:45
Hey man those models looks great :), I hope can play your mod soon
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: bisurge on 24 January 2009, 21:02:57
OFF TOPIC, but important to point out:
Okay, so an MP40 instead of an AK-47? Sure. But it looks like an AK-47, and MP40s are also rapid fires. And what are you going to do about the MP5 and the desert dank? They didn't have those in WWII. They didn't have nukes either. BTW, MP40 is a German submachine gun, the equivalent to a Thompson.

Japan, you may remember was set back several decades by a nuke!
Reading what you say, Omega, I agree.  It's important to remember that you won't be able to tell what kind of gun it is in game.

Wait a second, I said the MP40 was a GERMAN submachine gun in WWII, not a JAPANESE one. As far as I know, they did not nuke Germany in WWII.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Fixed and adding models!
Post by: Omega on 25 January 2009, 02:04:19
The website is now up: http://glest.110mb.com/military (http://glest.110mb.com/military)
Comment?


Hey man those models looks great :), I hope can play your mod soon
OMG, glest team man Tucho likes my models! I'm honored!  ;D


I am very busy, and the social final was just an utter pain, taking me a full two hours, and jeeze, my hand STILL hurts! Way too much writing. =-O However, I still managed to crawl over to my computer and get to work on the models. My math final will be a breeze, since I'm top of the class there, and I studied more than enough for it.

I was busy working on the infantry, which I modeled and textured last week. Now I put in armatures and animated it. I used a different modeling strategy that I heard of, this time making the model in tiny little bits. The upper arms, lower arms, torso, each leg, head, and gun are all seperate meshes with their own armatures. This may seem overally complexe and may seem difficult to animate, but it is actually easier for me and I had less errors and less warping. This also made it MUCH easier to texture. This model will be posted as soon as I a get the time (probably gonna wait until I get back to school, but maybe not, since I made the filesize very small). This reminds me that I wanted to brag about my low poly work. 612 triangles, 588 vertices. 2 frames is 40.9 KB, 10 frames is 149 KB. Real nice. This is one of my best models, but keep in mind that when I do post it, I would prefer it if it is not used in mods until I military's final is out. (The final is out when the website says its out, Oh man, I gotta upload the website too... Bloody internet!

Part of the reason I posted this post is so that I could introduce another new thing that I think no one else has tried yet: Hold Position models. This is easily possible in glest's xmls in the same method that units like the swordman charge when attacking rather than walking. I feel this will add realism and look cool. Mind you, only some units (humans) will have hold position models, and most will just be preparing themselves with their guns ready. Sure would be cool in tech though, with guards holding their shields defensively, but this is military, so the proper use of 'prepare yourself' will do! ;-D

@Modman, this is the code for hold position models just in case, though you probably already know how. Copy, paste, and fill in the blanks if you don't.

Code: [Select]
<!-- Skills -->

<skill>
<type value="stop"/>
<name value="hold_skill"/>
<ep-cost value="0"/>
<speed value="1000"/>
<anim-speed value="45"/>
<animation path="HOLD MODEL PATH"/>
<sound enabled="false"/>
</skill>

<!-- Commands -->

<command>
<type value="attack_stopped"/>
<name value="hold_position"/>
<image path="IMAGE PATH"/>
<unit-requirements/>
<upgrade-requirements/>
<stop-skill value="hold_skill"/>
<attack-skill value="attack_skill"/>
</command>

POLL: Which should I animate next?
//EDIT:
OMG... All the models and the texture in a zip archive are 180 KB. I must have set a new record for the lowest filesize in a human model (not really)... Guess I might as well just upload it now then. Please note that as I said before, you are forbidden to use this in your mods until the final version of military is released (and it still never hurt to just stick to original models anyway). Although you're free to use it in glest for your own personal use or for just plain admiring the massive effort I put into this thing!
Download Here: http://www.mediafire.com/?gyzmdy1tztc (http://www.mediafire.com/?gyzmdy1tztc)
~Enjoy!
On another note, I'm just going to redo the private (worker). The animations weren't up to snuff after I finished this one. Gonna just stick to the animation strategy that I used for this one anyway. Works so much better. The original animations were too unrealistic, and I didn't have many, including loaded animations, resource animations, and the build animation. Just gonna redo it to perfection, 'cause that's what this mod's about: perfection. Sorry for the delay.

In other news, I want to redo icons with this background:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/619fd0ffd98024c03700cad64b516a602g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=tot2ertfzzg&thumb=5)
I could do them myself, but that would delay things further and I am pretty busy with finals still going on and tons of units are yet to be made. I need these images to look real good, and anyone's welcome to change the background if they wish, as long as the icons are 'militaryish'. They should be easy to see and recognize, and I need all the basics: move, hold position, build, build defenses, repair, heal, mine, harvest, stop, attacks (differ, see tech tree map in an earlier post), and I guess I'll do the unit's personal backgrounds using pictures of each unit. If anyone who has some experience with this and wants to do it, feel free. (Modman, Gameboy, Mictes, etc;)

~~~ OVER AND OUT (at last)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 26 January 2009, 02:23:54
OT: Yes, this part of the post is extremely off topic. If you want, scroll down to the horizontal rule if you don't want to read it (though you should).
Anyway, I have been pretty busy, working on the military's models with the goal of PERFECTION (by my standards). I have also been spicing up my coding skills while studying for Finals. What I am planning on doing once I finish military (perhaps at the same time, or while doing Underworld), I am going to make my own game. And not a basic Pong or something. I mean a full 3D FPS. Nothing all that big, but it can be very good if I practice. However, this opens the question of what to use as an engine. Glest won't do for a FPS, since it would require modifying beyond me. I was thinking maybe OGRE and OPE, although OGRE is very large in filesize. I'm open to any suggestions. My game is iconically named 'One Man Army', which I feel is a suitable theme, since One Man Army is the term used to describe indie game developement (where one person does everything). With my top secret stash of sound effects (both custom and royalty-free), music (likewise, I guess I should also recommend you all psycle for custom music), models (which I can easily use military's own models for), and Ideas (which I am exploding of).

In short, this game's story would be told mainly through video and image, and would be playable in a standard FPS. Sure could use some good plot themes though, but I have considered mainly terrorist or some other danger threatening the country (which I'll leave unnamed for localization). Using a mix of OpenGL, DirectX, OGRE, OGE, and good ole C++, hopefully this idea could take off. Like all games, the plot would be very important, and I would make it long and dramatic, with a good mixture of action, betrayal, romance, and more. Yeah, with all of that, such a game could easily take a looong time to program. I won't even start with the plot until I decide on a good *free* engine that is video supportive and works well for a 3D FPS (once again, OGRE and OPE are looking impressive). Could use some ideas for how to do the maps (levels) although I should choose the engine first. Gonna have to get familiar with it, and maybe look around for some interested people who could potentially help. Multiplayer is a no go at my skill level, but is a distant future thing.

I think that if I take the time and dedication, I could get this done. But of course, military and underworld must be done first. Military's models and textures can be very helpful in this project.

If you like the idea, want to lend support, can help in some way, have plot ideas, etc; Please contact me via PRIVATE MESSAGES or EMAIL (Omega99999{at}gmail{dot}com). There's no need to get this entire board off topic! ;)
*Maybe we need an offtopic board for glest. Yes, that would eat up plenty of memory and stuff for unneccessary posts, but it would be handy. Most other boards have one anyway.

Now back to glest and the military tech tree. The mod is still working great, and I just finished the Marine. The website is up at glest.110mb.com/military (http://glest.110mb.com/military) check it out for the latest! I'm going to do the special op net, but I'd like some feedback on which unit I should model/animate following that.

Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 27 January 2009, 02:09:06
Do the Flamethrower next.  For the best results, it should have animated flames, not any kind of splash.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: gameboy on 27 January 2009, 14:13:06
animated flames would look real crappy.
I'll do the images, but contrary to what you think i'm not very experienced with 2D images i just started doing them last month.
also how did you learn to model those units, did you use a tutorial? if so which one, i've tried so much but i can't find a proper tut and i never make decent looking unit models, i'm only good at props and building, and BTW did you make those textures yourself?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 28 January 2009, 00:45:52
To model units, start SLOOOOOOOOW! I did that noob-to-pro tutorial where you use cubes and eventually you'll get better with time. My first models were plain crappy. (no kidding).

@Modman: There is no way to make flames in the model (or they'll look worse). THe best flames I could do would look like the campfire in indians! Just use a special particle like the wild sow in Norsemen. It looks fairly good. Just make the particle more spread and seeded.

Gonna do flamethrower, then bazooka soldier.

EDIT// Check out the hilarious 404 page on the webpage at: http://glest.110mb.com/military/404.html (http://glest.110mb.com/military/404.html)
I can't actually have a 404 page on free 110mb sites, but this is as close as I can get for free.

Also, the donate page (http://glest.110mb.com/military/donate.html (http://glest.110mb.com/military/donate.html)) is now working. All millionaires send me free money! ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 28 January 2009, 22:04:32
Yes, but the flames will die off too fast; never mind, I figured out.  This unit will attack at about 1000 speed with 1 damage, so in this way the proj will look continuous.  Not sure what this is like on graphics though.  Ultamate melee!

Millionare would exclude me, but I know a few.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 31 January 2009, 10:28:12
Did you test it? I know that if attack speed is too high, glest sort of skips the attck. Another crucial thing I noticed is that if the delay before the attack is set for more than a second (or maybe more than 0.8 seconds), the attack is never performed.

You know millionaires? Who's your friend? Bill Gates?


OT: I got 104% on my social final! Woo! I just had to brag about that.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 31 January 2009, 13:22:58
No, it was just a theory.  I hope it works, though.

There are tons of millionares out there; most successful lawyers and doctors and entrepreneurs are millionares.  One of my friends, her dad is a chiropracter.  Having a million doesn't mean as much as it did 20 or 50 years ago.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 1 February 2009, 08:34:25
I personally doubt it will work. I had set a speed of like 1000 before to a produce skill (wanted instant production) but to my dismay, it used the resources but made no unit. Maybe it was just that one unit, but...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 16 February 2009, 21:19:57
Ooh, work went slowly back there, but now I've finished the Rations Center and am finishing up the flamethrower. However, the icons are still needed and I was wondering if someone else can do them for me. I'm not begging but it would save me lots of time (icons aren't my strong point) and would speed up the release. List below the horizontal rule. Of course, there still is lots of units to go:
Eee... 17 units! The following of the units are modeled but not animated:
The only challenging ones left to model are:
The bottom line: There is about 7 difficult models to make, but a number of buildings which I don't know what will look like. Feel free to jump in and help modelling!

ICON LIST
This is a list of icons needed. Here is the icon background:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/619fd0ffd98024c03700cad64b516a602g.jpg)
All icons should be similar in type, and should fit with the theme. I can't stand it when mods have a mixture of unique icons mixed with magitech icons. The backgrounds end up looking horrible...

I'll do all the unit icons (I have to, since nobody else has the models)


I know, that's a lot of icons (35!) but I thank anyone who lends a hand to do them. I am not too fusy about what the icons look like, as long as they all are similar in colors and style. For some like Titanium Refining and Aerodymics, use your imagination on what the icons should look like.

Thanks once again for all and any help.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 17 February 2009, 01:04:41
I have a rough sketch of what the power plant might look like.  If I get time, I'll see if I can get to modeling it.  Of course, it comes with the caveat that it's going to be too high-poly and not have any texture... but that comes with the territory.

http://i40.tinypic.com/wvzred.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Three_Mile_Island_(color)-2.jpg
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: bisurge on 17 February 2009, 05:02:49
MP40 attack?
Are you making fun of 3rd world countries because they still use MP40's? Just kidding.
But seriously, don't CALL IT the MP40 attack; call it MP5.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 17 February 2009, 05:21:27
MP40 attack?
Are you making fun of 3rd world countries because they still use MP40's? Just kidding.
But seriously, don't CALL IT the MP40 attack; call it MP5.
... or just call it SMG and avoid the whole issue.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 17 February 2009, 12:01:15
I have a rough sketch of what the power plant might look like.  If I get time, I'll see if I can get to modeling it.  Of course, it comes with the caveat that it's going to be too high-poly and not have any texture... but that comes with the territory.
Ah, yes. That is exactly what I had in mind for the reactor. (you need to get a scanner though, the picture was so blurred I think I burned my eyes out) Feel free to model it (or anything else if you want). I can finish in parts you can't do as well, such as the texture.

And I avoid high poly anyway, so that's good. I depend mostly on the texture for depth and detail.
And yes, just call it a SMG attack for all I care. In the game, it'll just be 'attack'. I just wanted to give a little more detail on the icon, yeesh...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 17 February 2009, 18:26:36
Heh... usually I scan things when I'm on campus, but I'd already biked about 30 miles yesterday so I didn't feel like making another trip. :lol:  Anyway, I'll try to get it modeled some time within the next few days.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 18 February 2009, 10:01:06
That'd be great, thanks Johndh. But you're tired after a mere 30 miles? Just for quiting, do another 75! :D

Quote
the picture was so blurred I think I burned my eyes out
Hmm, I need an emote of eyes burning! Gwahaha! :-X

By the way, I was wondering if Gameboy would like to do the images. I don't mean to pry, but he did do an insanely fantastic job on Titi's norsemen.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: gameboy on 18 February 2009, 11:20:59
I already said I would.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 19 February 2009, 22:57:23
Okay, I just modeled the power plant.  I couldn't really figure out a good way to make the tower, though.  I thought about doing two intersecting cones with the ends cut off, but it doesn't really get the curvature in the middle like it should have, so I left that part blank.  The main building and the other tower (maybe it's a water tank?) are done, though.  I just have to convert it over to a *.blend or *.obj when I get home, so expect it to be uploaded in a little while.

Edit: Here you go.  I don't know if you prefer *.blend or *.obj, so I saved it as both.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mazm3hjgg1m/power_plant.blend
http://www.mediafire.com/file/qzqngou1znw/power_plant.obj
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2ir5a3q.jpg)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 20 February 2009, 07:30:08
Looks good. Positioning's a little off, but that's ok. I'll handle that part and the textures. The cylinder has lots of sides though. For future models, I would recommend less sides to reduce filesize, textures make models look smooth any way (look at the arms of most units, they are pretty squarish, but the texture helps hide that).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 20 February 2009, 18:42:38
The cylinder has lots of sides though. For future models, I would recommend less sides to reduce filesize
Yeah, that's just how it looks when I transfer it from a *.dwg file, where the curves are actually stored as curves, into Blender, where the curves are represented as angled faces.  I have no idea how to reduce the number of sides, but I'm a n00b when it comes to Blender.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 23 February 2009, 15:36:56
Eee... I'm sorry, but I can't get the file to work in blender. I remade it myself using blender, not an exact copy, but it's textured as well.  I'll upload a picture later, I'm at school. (And not supposed to be doing this, but I'mn done the essay)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: MasacruTheArcher on 25 February 2009, 19:51:53
Omega ,this mod sounds and tastes awesome , good luck on it and i hope it will come out sooon :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 25 February 2009, 22:11:07
I've never heard a complement like that before!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 26 February 2009, 00:35:40
Thanks Masacru. No set release date, but it probably won't be for some months.

Glad you like it.

Here's the reactor picture, by the way...
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3206/reactor.jpg)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 26 February 2009, 01:56:37
I love it; it looks fantastic.
My only comment would be that the texture is a little pixelated...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 26 February 2009, 02:03:50
Here's the reactor picture, by the way...
Err... that's the biohazard symbol, not radiation.  I think the one you're trying for is this:

(http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/annual/fy2000/OHIP/radiation.gif)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 26 February 2009, 15:27:27
True, that is biohazard, but nuclear isn't as 'cool' looking. The texture is actually fine in glest, but in here it looks a bit odd because I used a lower JPG quality to save on file size.

I'll let you guys decide though, radiation sign (proper) or biohazard sigh (radiation is biohazardous anyway,  thinking WHYMIS symbols.... (radiation looks different in WHYMIS though...)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: gameboy on 27 February 2009, 07:38:06
omega, i've done some icons, I don't know if you'll like them or not.
here's the download
http://www.mediafire.com/?zmwyj3mnqrw
49 KB
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 27 February 2009, 20:04:41
They look pretty good to me! ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 28 February 2009, 04:56:33
I like them. Good work being done!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 1 March 2009, 04:43:48
by the way i downloaded the alpha or whatever the latest is and i am going to have to make some modifications to get it to work
but i'm telling you that you need a metal resource to mine(on the maps)
i'm just going to change the resources around so i can play
anyway i think it's pretty good so far 8)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 1 March 2009, 10:46:08
Alpha??? I don't have an alpha released. At least not of Military 2. THe original military is totally different and abandoned.

This version has far better models, plot, everything... No known release date for it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 23 March 2009, 23:06:54
so when are you going to do this ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: doomgamer on 25 March 2009, 13:00:08
dude have you got a beta of millatry 2 for me to try cause it sounds cool

please :'( throw this dog a bone
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 26 March 2009, 15:46:59
I regret forgetting to say this, but the military project is on hold until may 12 2009. On that day, I will start production again. I appolgize for this delay. I expect a beta with about half of the units around may 24.

Sorry. But rest assured, I won't let it die.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: doomgamer on 26 March 2009, 16:27:24
thanks dude (aka omega)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 26 March 2009, 22:49:52
good :)
cause i like this faction! ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 29 March 2009, 09:39:25
Glad that you don't mind the wait. I got some other things to do, including finishing the elves web page for gAMeboy, updating the glest guide (glest.110mb.com (http://glest.110mb.com)), and a few 'behind the scenes' products.

Now add that with school and learning (I learn programming languages at speeds faster than humanly possible, spanning to advanced HTML and CSS, intermidiate JavaScript, basic C++, and more!). Now just for fun, lets add sports (I actually play every school sport, and I'm on the SRC), friends, family, and leisure. The result? So much to do... So few hours in the day. It's almost time to start making 26 hour days! ;D

Anyway, look back here in May!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 7 May 2009, 15:44:47
News:

Firstly, the new date for starting this will be May 21 (right after the big track meet). I don't have enough spare time before then. Anyway, I have made a few changes:


I am longing to get back to production, and as usual, anyone is welcome to give a hand, which can speed things up, but isn't needed. I look forward to doing the headquarters and the nuclear attack right away (super attack). BTW, I am wondering if anyone has any good tips or ideas to making a sort of 'burned' texture, such as how paper blacken when burned. Basically, some units like the tank and humvee scorch nicely when destroyed, so they need a burned/charred texture. Think of an explosive impact in a video game on the ground (ie: throw a grenade and the ground becomes charred). I may be able to simulate this with GIMP's burn tool, but it doesn't seem to look as good as I wish. My best bet might be to use the 'coffee stain' plug-in and edit the stain to look like a burn... Anyway, I'm just rambling there.

Back to business, as I have stated, I need the icons for many things. Look up in previous posts for the icon list. I already have some great move/attack/stop/etc icons made (once again, look up for link), so all icons should fit with this design OR should have totally new design. I would prefer you to use the icon background supplied with my list of icons, if not too much to ask. I CAN always do the icons myself, but some of these guys on the board are just so good with 2D things, and I'm only so so (improving fast), though I don't do good with making new things. Almost every texture is made of real life images or stock images.

~~~ Unit list in next post ~~~
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 7 May 2009, 15:45:09
~~~ UNIT LIST ~~~
This list is not only meant as a documentation of the layout, but is also an advanced list of the units for anyone who wants to give me a hand, and most importantly, it is a memo to myself!

AA Launcher:
Type: Defense
Info: Attacks air units only with a blast of six missles. Very simple unmanned machine that looks exacts like the movies. It deals very heavy damage to air with a splash, and is capible of taking out an air unit in just a few attacks. However, its attacks are slow.
Animations: Still, attack, die, construct

Baton Soldier:
Type: Unit
Info: A strong melee unit that has an electrified baton as a weapon. He is muscular and strong, far more powerful than any other infantry unit, although limited by the melee attack. He has higher defense, high attack, and plenty of health to help him survive until he reaches the foe.
Animations: Still, attack, move, die

Factory:
Type: Building
Info: A modern looking facility meant for large scale production of products. Can produce the tank and humvee.
Animations: Still, construct, die, construct tank, construct humvee

Flamethrower:
Type: Unit
Info: The most powerful short range unit in the game, it has a brutal flamethrower which deals an intense splash damage to foes in range, causing heavy damage at a high pace. The flamethrower unit resembles the baton soldier, but with a large flamethrower, slower, but slightly more HP. The weapon can damage himself, so use with care. A secondary attack, liquid flame, can attack even air units with a bigger splash and more power.
Animations: Still, attack, die, move, hold position

Grenader:
Type: Unit
Info: A marine with a grenade launcher, capible of dealing heavier splash damage over a short range. Slightly more vulnerable than the marine, and slower too.
Animations: Still, attack, move, die, hold position

Hanger:
Type: Building
Info: A building with control tower and landing platform, meant to be used for producing stealth bombers. It is very similar to something one might find in an airport.
Animations: Still, construct, die, construct stealth bomber

Headquarters:
Type: Building
Info: The main building for military, it is a standard command center which has a panel on the top. After numerous upgrades and after getting enough EP, it will unleash a powerful, long ranged nuke to any location on the map. This nuke requires 480 seconds to charge up (8 minutes). It deals damage only to units, and not buildings (otherwise the entire base could be destroyed). It has high splash, high power, and devastating effects, as well as it looks plain cool! Of course, the fact that this building also produces the private makes this the most important (and most fun) building in the game. In order to prevent the computer from unleashing this automatically, as well as to ensure that this attack is only unleashed when you want it to be, there is also a short range machine gun attack (4 range).
Animations: Still, construct, die, nuke, machine gun

Howitzer:
Type: Defense
Info: A computer manned howitzer cannon that shoots small explosive shells long distances (10 range). The splash and power for shells are only modernate, and the howitzer uses EP to reload the ammunation, limiting the shots. It is also the weakest defense unit in terms of HP. It also has a mortar attack for even longer range, which is capible of dealing more damage, but at a slower rate of fire.
Animations: Still, attack, mortar, construct, die

Humvee:
Type: Vehicle
Info: A very fast land vehicle capible of traversing enemy terrain quickly. While it is not very powerful, with a simple 4.55mm mounted machine gun, it has fairly strong armor, and plenty of HP. It explodes upon death (wheels fly out to the sides and main carcass is scorched). For a visual example, google Mercenaries 2's Raven vehicle. It is similar, but different colors and in humvee form.
Animations: Still, attack, move, die

Infantry:
Type: Unit
Info: A simple infantry unit armed with a basic rifle. They are cheap, weak, and disposible, but effective in large numbers. They are the primary starting unit, and some of the simplest units to produce. They can morph into the marine.
Animations: Still, attack, move, die, hold position

Machine Gun Turret:
Type: Defense
Info: Morphs from a private (it 'builds' the turret, then mans it), it is a simple turreted machine gun not unlike the halo's machine gun turrets. It has a cover though, and fairly good defense. It's health is quite low for a defensive unit though.
Animations: Still, attack, morph, die

Marine:
Type: Unit
Info: A step up from the infantry, this marine has more power, speed, and HP. It is basically a jacked up infantry with a MP-40 machine gun. You must already have at least one Infantry in order to produce this.
Animations: Still, attack, move, die, hold position

Ops Facility:
Type: Building
Info: An important building, producing some higher end units such as the special op, medic, and flamethrower. The explosives upgrade allows for use of new units. Basically a tall, black, glassy, sleek tower which would be veiled in secrecy.
Animations: Still, construct, die

Outpost:
Type: Defense
Info: The main defense building, equivilant to tech's defense tower, it fires 7.95mm sniper rifle shells from its watch post, and can be used as a lookout with amazing sight (25!) after upgrading the surveillance. It is a wooden structure made to ward off attackers with high HP while picking them off slowly with guns.
Animations: Still, attack, surveillance, construct, die

Private:
Type: Unit
Info: It doesn't look like it, but this is the most important unit in the game. It can't attack, but harvest's every resource, builds most buildings, constructs most defenses, repairs any building, and is your economical core. It can mine gold and steel, as well as harvest wood. It can build the Rations Center, Headquarters, Reactor, Recruitment Station, Ops Facility, and Factory. It can repair every building, and make the Outpost, Machine Gun Turret, and Howitzer defenses. It can also do basic first aid on some units to heal, but this ability is limited.
Animations: Still, mine, harvest, move, walk loaded mine, walk loaded harvest, walk harvest, walk mine, idle mine, idle harvest, build, first aid

Rations Center:
Type: Building
Info: Home of all food, this stores food, as well as produces it. Food is produced 15 at a time, and does not take up any space on the map, as it is produced directly, rather than by animals like in tech. It is a standard first aid like building that is covered in camoflauge netting.
Animations: Still, construct, die

Reactor:
Type: Building
Info: A radio active power source, meant to provide upgrades, being the equivilant of tech's blacksmith and magic's library. It can initiate the Plutonium Extraction and Titanium Refining upgrades.
Animations: Still, construct, die

Recruitement Station:
Type: Building
Info: The main unit production supercenter, it is basically a large camoflauge netted building which recruites new units into your army. It can recruit the Infantry, Baton soldier, or Marine
Animations: Still, construct, die

RPG Trooper:
Type: Unit
Info: A powerful unit with an RPG launcher. It is roughly outfitted, not in a completely military outfit. The RPG attack does some impressive damage with a nice splash, but is nothing compared to the bittersweet destruction caused by the Fuel Air RPG, which basically ignites the air aflame, almost like a flamethrower with range. Truely powerful, but EP restrictions restrict its attacks, especially the Fuel Air attacks. It got plenty of HP, but weak, vulnerable armor.
Animations: Still, attack, move, die, fuel air RPG

Special Op:
Type: Unit
Info: A powerful unit clothed in black. It is basically an assassin, a black op. Modelled with Sam Fisher in mind (without the night vision goggles, as cool as they may be, they don't function to well in bright sunlight). They attack with an electrical arc beam taser, a new weapon which sends out a bolt of electricity, charged at extremely high voltage, enough to fry an opponent alive. A secondary sniping attack allows for one hit kills, but at huge EP costs.
Animations: Still, attack, move, die, snipe

Stealth Bomber:
Type: Vehicle
Info: A powerful new series of Stealth Fighters, it can fly very low, far beneith enemy radar, and is capible of bombing foes with twin missles. A secondary attack has it drop a 1000 kiloton bomb vertically onto anything below it. Equipped with VTOL (Verticle Take Off and Landing) features, it can fly motionlessly in the air like a heli, though its speed while moving puts all helis to shame!
Animations: Still, attack, move, die

Tank:
Type: Vehicle
Info: A powerful tank which, while slow moving, has powerful explosive shells to burst through anything. It has the best armor in the game, and can be boosted even more with the Titanium Refining upgrade. Its powerful shells allow explosive splashes for high damage in an area. The tank is a quick favorite, resembling a standard modernish tank with desert storm camoflauge.
Animations: Still, attack, surveillance

~~~ UPGRADE LIST ON NEXT POST ~~~
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 7 May 2009, 15:45:27
~~~ UPGRADE LIST ~~~
This is the list of all upgrades in Military.

Aerodymics
Description: Allows the stealth fighter to be produced. Requires stealth research. Slightly increases the armor and sight of the hanger as well.

Explosives
Description: Allows production of the RPG Trooper and Grenader.

Plutonium Extraction
Description: Allows the use of the Nuclear Bomb attack from the headquarters, as well as gives the Headquarters a big boost.

Stealth Research
Description: The first upgrade for the Stealth Bomber, allowing the Aerodymics upgrade to be commenced.

Surveillance
Description: Grants a massive boost in sight for the outpost, bringing the sight up to 25, enough to see foes long before they reach you, making the outpost truly live up to its name, and making it very suitable for building on paths to your base.

Titanium Refining
Description: Gives a sweet boost in the armor of the Tank, Humvee, and Stealth Bomber. But not for cheap...

That's all the units and upgrades. I've been playing so many war games (Halo 3 [everybody knows this], Mercenaries 2 [a great game despite its glinches], Call of Duty 4 [another WW game, but eh...], and the Splinter Cells). I am basically briming with unit ideas, and after I release the final v1 with the above units, I may decide to add new ones in.
Brainstormin', possible future units:
-Gunship (heli)
-Another, more powerful tank
-AA tank with heavy machine gun and AA missles
-Bunkers (contain resources, ultra durable defenses)
-Bunker Busters (weapons meant for pentrating bunkers)
-Elephant like tank (from Halo 3, its basically a moving fortress, its so powerful)
-Death Star (JK)
-Etc; Etc;

Of course, lets not get ahead of myself. I got work to do. If anyone wants to give a hand, please, feel free.

** No known release date, but most likely in the summer (after schools finally done) **

~~~
Over and Out
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 7 May 2009, 20:00:26
cool

~~over and out~~
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: MadElf on 8 May 2009, 00:15:11
How are you planing to do the Airplane units?
I mean, they can't stay floating on the air.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 9 May 2009, 02:14:27
maybe the stop model could be the plane facing itself straight up and using afterburner (jk  :P)
you could have it fly around in loops for a stop model
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 13 May 2009, 15:55:09
VTOL, great thing, works here too!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 13 May 2009, 21:13:55
VTOL, great thing, works here too!
In layman's terms, what he means is that some planes (like the Harrier jet for example) are capable of taking off vertically and hovering in place.  However, it burns a lot of fuel to do that.

As far as I know, there aren't any stealth jets that can do that, but last time I checked (a couple years ago), the up-and-coming F-35 Lightning Joint Strike Fighter was supposed to have VTOL (Vertical Take-Off and Landing) capabilities and also be at least somewhat stealthy.

http://www.jsf.mil/index.htm
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 14 May 2009, 19:41:37
Welcome to the future. To prevent arguing, this mod now takes place in 2050. I dare anyone to try to predict what the heck people will use then!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 14 May 2009, 20:42:56
Considering we've been using the M16 relatively unchanged since the 1960s...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: MadElf on 14 May 2009, 23:33:44
Welcome to the future. To prevent arguing, this mod now takes place in 2050. I dare anyone to try to predict what the heck people will use then!

Make the Death Star then lol

And by the way, since loads of modern war machinery are now controled by remote control, in 2050 I think they would use some robotic stuff, you could do some, it would be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 15 May 2009, 00:39:56
Yeah, I think something like the Predator UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle) would be good, since you only have one air unit so far.  It could have a big sight radius and some kind of light air-to-ground attack.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_UAV_MQ-1_Predator_lg.jpg (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_UAV_MQ-1_Predator_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: MadElf on 15 May 2009, 07:49:01
I like it since we only have 1 air unit.

and take a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_robot

As you can see robots are used in wars since 1940, I didn't know that. :o
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: assassin on 15 May 2009, 14:16:27
Actually, the 1940's tanks were remote-controlled, not robots.  A robot is a machine which works without human input once it's been deployed.  ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 15 May 2009, 19:30:42
Only technically speaking. Although I must say, the robot idea is tempting, but I'm sticking with the current units for now. In the future, I want to add a lot of new units, and hope this can grow into a very large lifelike faction. I am only done select units, but I already made all the XMLs, and tested it with placeholders (large blocks with the units name on them). All that's left is images(!), models, and sounds (got them all, but I won't add them until last).

I have some great particle splash/proj's, especially the nuke (no mushroom cloud, but looks great). The best animation ever is the Special Op's shock gun, which looks pure fantastic! Of course, I still have a placeholder for that, since I haven't animated it yet.

In other news, the AI is perfect, and managed to beat me 2/6 times (though not anymore, in the beginning, I was still learning).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 15 May 2009, 23:00:23
hey i have good plane models from a game called gl-117
if you want them please let me know :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 17 May 2009, 09:36:38
Well, you need to check the liscence for this gl-117 first to make sure that the models can be used for this, then I'll need the name of the author for crediting purposes. If it all works out, I'll be happy to add the planes in!

*Reminder to all that I am open to all and any models.

-I also was wondering if someone could texture this factory for me. I made it with blender, and it is pretty basic, but was unwrapped very good for easy texturing. It is made to fit a 3x3 square (glest building can't be too big), and has very loose instructions, though leaves alot of room for personalization. I could texture this myself, but want to see how anyone else can do, oh, and I'm feeling REAL lazy!
<Will upload soon, tried mediafire, but its being a bit of a pain on dial-up, ugh. Any volunteers though?>
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: MadElf on 17 May 2009, 09:53:19
I could if you want to, but you wiould need to upload it somewhere else that not MediaFire, I can't use it...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 17 May 2009, 10:15:25
Here, I found this great website. Anonymous hosting with a direct link. Because it is a direct link, it should work perfectly for you.
Code: [Select]
http://stashbox.org/518278/factory.7z
I had to restart my entire laptop, stupid internet was acting up with a fury of 'timeouts'.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 17 May 2009, 13:56:06
here's your info :)

http://www.heptargon.de/gl-117/gl-117.html (http://www.heptargon.de/gl-117/gl-117.html)

copyright:
gl-117 is distributed under the terms of the GPL.

author:
Thomas A. Drexl (tom.drexlREMOVESPAM@gmx.de)

gl-117 is an OpenGL action flight simulator
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 19 May 2009, 15:44:45
Great, can I have the model(s)?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 19 May 2009, 18:39:47
yes, if i remember i'll upload them tonight
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: tiger on 19 May 2009, 22:45:19
sounds cool
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 20 May 2009, 03:13:32
here:
Code: [Select]
[url=http://www.savefile.com/files/2109089]models from gl-117[/url]
Note: textures and models included ;D

enjoy! :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 23 May 2009, 05:31:06
Thanks, I'll try to download back at school ASAP.

BTW:
***VITAL***
I need a missle model of some sort. I know I saw one on the board, such as for something about special attacks, I believe. I made one myself, but it was too big, and apparently if its too big, glest won't even show it. Since I saw this in a pic in game, I can assume that it works. If anyone knows where, or if they can make a quick missle that works in Glest (it's for the nuclear attack, though any missle will do), thanks!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 23 May 2009, 12:58:51
i included all the gl-117 models including missiles buildings and other goodies
so i think a lot of your models are taken care of
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 24 May 2009, 09:32:42
Great thanks. I'm downloading now. I'll post some other time which models I used for what (I'll have to convert to  G3D, ready for Glest, etc;).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 26 May 2009, 23:07:58
Sorry for DPing.

I checked the models, and unfortunately, none of them at all seem to be good. It may have been my viewer, which was a special 3D viewer which supports 3ds, x, dbo, and mdl files, though I don't think it is. The textures are horrible, and the models are work for maybe 20 seconds on the buildings, 5 minutes on everything else.

@MADELF: Did you ever get around to texturing that factory? You said you would but I got no reply. If you don't want to, I'll do it, but I need to know. If anyone else wants to, give me a shout!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 26 May 2009, 23:19:30
well they're pretty good in gl-117
you don't have to use them just an idea

besides i think the plane models were pretty good
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: MadElf on 26 May 2009, 23:35:03
@MADELF: Did you ever get around to texturing that factory? You said you would but I got no reply. If you don't want to, I'll do it, but I need to know. If anyone else wants to, give me a shout!

I need a link with the model download, it can be .blend or g3d, doesn't matter.
And the old texture if there is 1.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 27 May 2009, 01:14:30
Look up, man, look up!

To make it easier:
Here, I found this great website. Anonymous hosting with a direct link. Because it is a direct link, it should work perfectly for you.

Code: [Select]
http://stashbox.org/518278/factory.7z
I had to restart my entire laptop, stupid internet was acting up with a fury of 'timeouts'.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: MadElf on 27 May 2009, 07:51:57
Hehe, sorry, the texture will be finished soon!
 ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: bisurge on 4 June 2009, 01:14:25
What happened to the release date of May 21? It's June now.
Just reminding you guys. I've been waiting for this for many months, and I even stopped playing Glest now, but I'm still waiting.
Once this comes I'm going to probably start playing again. :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 7 June 2009, 18:33:07
I didn't take in aspect spring football practice...  :-\

Apparently we are not doing summer practice, and instead doing it in spring.

I am working on it every chance I get (which unfortunately isn't as much as I'd like), though I am not posting any more images because I want it to be a surprise. I find mods are better when someone picks it up, starts playing it, and goes "wow, this is totally greater than I thought". I have already done the XMLs and tested it to balanced perfection! I just have models to go, though quite a few.

The may 21 date was when I resumed work (which was pushed to 29th because I managed to get second in track 4x1 relay, moving on to districts meet).

I can always use a hand if you want this to go faster (ie: someone else could do texturing/icons), since I am so busy while school is in season, but totally unneccessary, just a speed up.

~~~ This is the OMEGA - Over and Out ~~~
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 22 June 2009, 18:52:50
Code: [Select]
[URL=http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=dnzrz2bgtzt&thumb=5][IMG]http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/382f79d3404d8a8620861e5f5aaa94a32g.jpg[/img][/URL]The tank will roar into the battlefield in full shape
Code: [Select]
[URL=http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=jojnnyyfwzm&thumb=5][IMG]http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/4e98cb8c3540295663755f021b5973652g.jpg[/img][/URL]
EDIT// Flamethrower completed! Next up: Special Op! Also, on July 30, I release, complete or not (though I expect to be completed). Of course, remember that I have dial-up internet, so if I can't get online... I'll try to upload slightly before that date to prevent the woes of dial-up. Also, that's July 30 GMT-6, so don't get the timezones mixed up!

FYI, testing has brought up some interesting aspects. The AI focuses mostly on marines and infantry early on, which gives them a weak start, but if you wait until they get stealth bombers, they can actually beat you. I think this is partly because of a bug. You see, the AA launcher has a hold position attack and a move skill so that it would turn, yet it only attacked once (which brought the stealth bomber from 1000+ to about 200 [but then it leveled up to an elite and earned most of that lost health back]). I'm not sure why it did this, but I am going to mess around with the XMLs to see why. I used the same process as the air ballista does... Hmm, this will need some thought...

YET ANOTHER EDIT// Fixed the AA launcher. My best guess is that they need a stop command, even if they aren't using it... Doing some more testing against the stealth fighter, I had to add delays between their attacks, or they just plowed through everything. More testing will determine wether or not I need some sort of moving unit with an AA attack. Considering giving RPG trooper an AA Launcher attack. Seems like a good idea to me, what do you think?

HOPEFULLY THE LAST EDIT// Finished the Private (worker unit) and added all sounds. Next up is RPG trooper. Check out the screen below for a sneak peek at some of the units I've completed!
Code: [Select]
[URL=http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=z3xgzy3yzwt&thumb=4][IMG]http://www1.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/4112e06e3bf967f23bab00fae2bfe9905g.jpg[/img][/URL]
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 22 June 2009, 19:11:36
This is really good.  I kind of thought you had abandoned this, but I know you don't do that.  You are the kind of person that finishes things.  This is good.  Also, I like the units you show in the screenshot, and the Tank is amazingly good.  You have improved your modeling skills by a lot from your first release of Military!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 22 June 2009, 20:50:45
I am astonished that you would even give the SLIGHTEST thought that I would abandon this! Didn't I promise to get it done?

RPG trooper started, but from this point on, no more screenshots. The last few units are a surprise. I wasn't originally planning on posting until I was finished, but I was so proud of my tank, so...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 22 June 2009, 21:04:42
The tank looks good, but the destroyed model could use a little work.  Maybe something like this (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/40/87294206_bd3e168a5e.jpg), and the die animation could have the turret blowing off... but that might be a little too much like C&C:G.  For the baton soldier, I picture those civil protection guys from Half-life 2 (image) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3549/3393832573_2cb2853429.jpg?v=0) but with a more military-style helmet.  For the hangar, I found
Code: [Select]
[url=http://www.paramountbusinessjets.com/images/charterterms/hangar.png]this[/url], which might be helpful.  For the recruitment station, I think a regular
Code: [Select]
[url=http://www.armedforces-int.com/images/companies/2424/military-tent-3b.jpg]military-looking tent[/url] would do, or maybe that should be the rations center.  The howitzer (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/105mm_howitzer_model18_40_Hameenlinna_1.jpg) should be fairly self-explanatory, although there are also self-propelled howitzers (http://www.armyrecognition.com/Amerique_du_nord/Etats_Unis/vehicule_artillerie/M_109/M109A6_Paladin_PIM_Partnership/LAND_M106A6-PIM_self-propelled_howitzer_001.jpg) for which you could use the tank model as a base.  I wouldn't give the RPG trooper an AA attack, since anti-armor and anti-air rocket launchers are so different it wouldn't even make sense.  If it's necessary for balance, or the "rule of cool", then go for it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 22 June 2009, 21:10:46
I'm not sure about the tank, since the model of the turret has no bottom, so I'd need to retexture and remodel parts, which i would not like to go through...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Mark on 22 June 2009, 21:53:18
Wow!! :o :o :o  That tank model is pretty cool!

About images: I will do them if you provide me with the model and the faction background image.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: GlestNewb on 23 June 2009, 07:25:41
Those are nice models :D. It's kinda funny to see the army against something like tech..you would know who wins lol.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 23 June 2009, 16:55:04
This can't fight tech. Its in a separate tech tree, and uses different resources. It goes against itself!

Once I finish the models (all of them, still working) I'll let you do the images, Mark.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: GlestNewb on 23 June 2009, 17:12:27
Oh military tech tree. My bad sorry.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 23 June 2009, 19:12:01
This can't fight tech. Its in a separate tech tree, and uses different resources. It goes against itself!

Since it goes against itself, there is no balancing to do!  No more talk of balancing; it is irrelevant! ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 23 June 2009, 20:44:47
However, I must make sure the units are fairly balanced. It would be no good if say there was a unit that was very expensive and was weak, while another unit is cheap and strong...

Also, balancing needs to make sure that the human does not have too big an advantage in units over the CPU. Currently the only disadvantage there is is the nuke, but that's ok. I'm sure players wouldn't want to go from leading player to near-dead in one hit! Even if the CPU could use the Nuke, they wouldn't use it right (proper use requires you to attack the player right after hitting them, while they are weak).

Finally, units need to be balanced so not to be useless. For example, by giving the medic an attack, it is no longer useless in normal glest (auto-heal is a lifesaver). Also, by giving the slow baton soldier a high HP and defense, we ensure that they can reach (and take out a few) units before they die. Of course, their main purpose is suposed to be a tank to absorb damage, but they can be quite powerful on the offense, if slow.

BTW, I forgot to mention, take a look at the flamethrower, the most powerful unit in terms of damage. (it's to the left of the headuarters in the previous picture, and behind the AA-launcher). It can take out a building in about 3-5 seconds on its own, and is great against groups of enemies. It's problem is that its also the slowest unit in the game, and if you gang up on it, you can take it down, otherwise, you'll take a lot of hurt before he goes down. Of course, he is very expensive, but the flames are cool (brutal, but cool)!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 29 June 2009, 06:48:29
Behind the scenes: RPG Trooper complete, no pic because its a secret! I have an anti-air attack regardless because testing revealed that if the foe can produce stealth bombers in their base, enough of them will stop any attack you do, since all powerful attacks are ground only, and guns aren't too effective on metal stealth bomber armor... Of course, the special op's electro-gun is very effective...

Also, some balancing issues were fixed where the attacks were no using the EP restrictions properly. After a bit of confusion, I finally understand the difference between the animation speed and speed values in the XML! Posting my observations to help others:

The speed value is actually relative to the animation value. When the animation is complete, the command (namely the attack command here, not tested other commands) is considered completed. Meaning the if an attack needs EP, it will detract the EP AFTER the animation is complete (in short, the command is completed). However, the command could be done multiple times in the animation length (the command length). For example, if I have 30 speed, and 60 animation speed, then I will perform my attack TWICE during this animation. This could be handy if I want an attack where I slash then back slash, giving the damage twice, during the course of one animation. Another time it could be useful is a three round burst from a gun, where I could have three attacks in one actual command! Interesting, eh?

In short, if you have the speed value to be less than anim speed, you can do multiples of the attack in one command. If the speed is more, then there is delay between attacks (but only one attack). For these purposes, I would advise all skills to have a speed value either equal to the anim speed (a 'normal' command) or greater than the anim speed (delay between attacks). Of course, I can't say how long one anim speed unit is, so you'll have to estimate how long is that 100 anim speed in contrast to your animation. But that's not the point of this note. Anyway, be sure to keep note of this, especially when having attacks that are limited by EP. (ie: you have 3 EP and 1 regen, your attack takes 3 EP to do, thus only one attack per ~3 seconds).

~~ In other news, I am going to do the special op facility next, followed by the recruitement station, now that I've got an idea what they will look like. I just need to figure out how I should make the HUMVEE look for later. Any suggestions/concepts? My best idea is this:

(http://www.hummerguy.net/wp-content/HumveeSoldier.jpg)

And for the howitzer, I wanted a non moving unit (though it can turn, as it has to, no unit would look good otherwise):

(http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/north_america/united_states/weapons/m777/pictures/M777_howitzer_field_artilery_gun_Us-Army_002.jpg)

~~ What do you think?

EDIT// Oops, almost forgot to mention: I discovered a great heli model in an open source game liscenced under GPL. To even out the game, the heli will now be a weaker air unit. Here's a blender quick shot (non-animated, just imported, linked the texture, and snapped a shot!).

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3230/helid.jpg)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: ElimiNator on 29 June 2009, 14:01:15
looks good :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 29 June 2009, 18:21:05
The heli is far better than your original heli was!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 29 June 2009, 19:18:47
Yeah, this Heli's from a different game, didn't make it myself. Its from UFO:AI (a fun TBS game, open source).

Military is now roughly 70% done, and since its summer, I can work on it better. My goal is to finish every unit, one per day, then I'll let some kindred soul make the images by giving them the 'beta' (finished, just without images). Of course, I'll need a volunteer. Didn't Mark volunteer? Anyway, I hope to be finished before the end of July, though I will be leaving to Regina tomorrow, so I won't be able to work on this. Can't wait to see the Canada Day (July 1st) celebrations!

Did some balancing to the flamethrower. He is just like before when attacking infantry units. but he is half as effective VS tanks, 60% as effective against metal, and only 1/3 as effective against buildings. Before, he used to destroy buildings in just a few seconds, now he is just like five units attacking it at the same time!

Special Ops Facility has been started, but I still must texture and make death/build models.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: titi on 30 June 2009, 09:00:57
HI omega, can we see some(or even one) screenshot of the mod?
Please modify the first post of this thread and add one, I think this will give you more publicity.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: tiger on 30 June 2009, 16:04:08
do you have a download
is tech finshed
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 30 June 2009, 16:31:04
tiger

Quote
Military is now roughly 70% done
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 30 June 2009, 20:51:23
Are you planning on redoing the texture for the heli?  The model looks good, but the texture could use some work in my opinion.  At least animating it should be a snap.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 30 June 2009, 21:30:24
The version two of military is under construction. However, the horrible v1 may have made some of the comments below, so they may not all apply. This post is a summary of the progress:

The mod is about 70% done. If you wish to give a hand, please PM me.

Current Screens: (6-30-09)

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9445/military1b.jpg)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/290/military2.jpg)

This faction is underway, please see the last parts of the thread for a more recent dialogue.

The main post is now updated, and here's the current images of the FINISHED units.

Almost done the recruitment station, just need build and die models.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 1 July 2009, 02:20:39
nice work
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: MadElf on 1 July 2009, 17:05:03
Holy cow! That looks amazing, I'm sorry for not sending you that factory, I was realy busy until now, but I see you already have a good texture for it!

I love your tanks man! They look so realistic.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: gameboy on 6 July 2009, 13:31:52
I agree with what John said, the Heli needs a better texture. try making it less saturated and giving it some scratches or something. other than that great models!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 11 July 2009, 12:08:02
I haven't really done the heli yet. I am using a freeware opensource game's heli model (under the GPL) so I haven't modified the original file yet. That's the model and texture intact from the game. I can fix the texture up when I come to it, and animate the model as well. I may have to change the propelers to something like how magitech's airship's propellers, but I'm having trouble doing so. Keep distorting. Bah, spinning things.... :P

Anyway, glad you like everything so far!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 11 July 2009, 20:39:44
Doing a spinning animation is actually ridiculously easy if you do it right.  Just make sure the bone is perpendicular to the propellers and rotate it on its axis.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 12 July 2009, 00:27:00
OT: What game is it?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 12 July 2009, 06:24:05
GRAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

I am totally pissed because of every file on my computer seemingly GONE!

I don't know what will happen to military... >:( >:( >:(

Read of my anger: https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=4450.0
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Mark on 12 July 2009, 20:10:06
I read of your anger, and i know that if something like that happened to me, i would be pissed.  Do you by any chance have any of your latest files uploaded?  No offense, but that is the downside of having things being kept as a secret.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 13 July 2009, 02:03:13
Fortunately, I did remember something. A short while ago I gave my entire gae/glest directories to my friend, and forgot to delete the testing copy of military (never intended to, but boy am I glad). The only problems are:

1. It is from late June, so is missing a couple of my new units (my fingers are crossed I still have the tank, since that was my best texture/model ever!)

2. He's very messy, so I gotta hope he still has the disc. He's not technically based, and said he got some error when using it (another problem may be that it was burned as a live disc, which means I need windows back first). Hopefully he kept the disc.

I don't want to get anyones hopes up, but there's still a chance. For now, THE OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE STATED EARLIER IS CANCELED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. I am sorry, but am unable to continue this mod without windows and numerous programs including blender, etc; I am trying to recover as fast as possible, but even once I get windows installed again, I have the problem of slow internet which will make things tough. Must explore options. I don't think WiFi is quite fast enough... I have at least 10GB probably of programs (less maybe, in a compressed installer) to download.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: ElimiNator on 13 July 2009, 06:38:25
I know how you feel a wile ago we got a hard drive that every one shares. So we can copy files to each others computers.
Wen we went to put another hard drive so we would have more space the hole thing was erased. All my blender files, all my pictures, textures ...  Good thing I still had some stuff on my computer. (Not as bad as you though.) 
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Fluffy203 on 15 July 2009, 17:49:23
Hey omega i have a factory that i was going to use for glest 2021, its not textured , but modeled with great animations such as build and stationary , you could use the stationary for the upgrade animation if you'd like and if you are interested i'll put it on here for you well i have alot of units done for this faction if you want them i'll be glad to give them to you , i have a grunt,heavy gunner, sniper , armory , satellite uplink  , construction drone , training camp , skimmer and etc just let me know if you are interested =)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 15 July 2009, 18:52:55
Well, I'd definately love that factory, and depending on wether or not my friend has his disc which I gave him, I may or may not need the rest. By all means, why not upload everything? I may even be able to add in a unit or two (though it's going to have to wait until I can get my files back, if I can).

Pictures?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 15 July 2009, 19:09:28
Omega, did you ever give military to anybody recently?  All this surprise units stuff really got you.  I see you said you might have lost two months of work?  I guessed you worked your butt off those two months, because of all of the new updates you showed.  I was mad when I lost four hours of work when my computer crashed when I was writing a song, but you lost your whole computer!  Then again, I've never switched OS's either.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 15 July 2009, 19:23:46
Yes, if you read my 'friggin emegency post' in GD, you'd see that I gave my friend a disc a little while ago. It was near the end of june, so it would only be missing a few models. THe only problems are that he said he got an error when trying to copy, but I think that's because he did something wrong. As well, he is a very messy type, so I just have to cross my fingers that he never lost the disc. If I get it back, I'll upload it online (but nope, not for you guys, sorry, I'm staying secretive).

I was working for at least 3 or 4 months, though it was very slow at first, as I didn't really get into it until june.

*You write songs? Heh, I actually am quite a song writer myself. I had written like 14 or so full length, professional-sounding songs, all now lost. Heh. Takes me at least an hour, though I'm lyrics only, since I got no clue how to do the actual music part.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Fluffy203 on 15 July 2009, 19:32:38
CommandPost: Base basically was in the middle of texturing it .
Code: [Select]
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg218/Shadowfox_203/CommandPost.jpg
Drone: Have the repair animations, build , attack and death.
Code: [Select]
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg218/Shadowfox_203/Drone.jpg
TrainingCamp: This is just the basic place to train your infantry.
Code: [Select]
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg218/Shadowfox_203/TrainingCamp.jpg
Uplink: Have rotating animations as well as it moving up and down.
Code: [Select]
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg218/Shadowfox_203/Uplink.jpg
Factory: The top (purple) move up and down the rods and the light blue door opens to let out the unit.
Code: [Select]
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg218/Shadowfox_203/factory.jpg
Food: This has animation of a cube going through a building then coming out as ham.
Code: [Select]
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg218/Shadowfox_203/fooddistrupitor.jpg
Sniper: crouching for attack animation done with everything except face texture and gun.
Code: [Select]
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg218/Shadowfox_203/sniper.jpg
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 15 July 2009, 19:45:49
Mmm, yes, they could be quite good once textured. However, I will, of course, wait until I can restore my military with my friend's disc, if I can. Though I really do like the factory, and with a proper texture, it could be quite good (better than mine?). One that I really like s that food one. It could be rations center. However, I already have a sniper. Perhaps it could be a different unit (ideas for names). The satellite uplink could be used for some method of research, and the training camp is just too hard to see in the pic. I have no plans to use the drone (sorry), but the command post could be used as another production building (please finish your texturing, you're almost done!).

Pretty good models. If you want to model something next, why not do the humvee? There's a picture just a little while back of concept. As well, the howitzer will need to be done (bear in mind its 1x1). Those are non people units, which are easiest. Save the people for me, because if I can get my files back, I already have the basic peope shapes done well... if...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Fluffy203 on 15 July 2009, 19:50:46
Ok well just let me know what you want and i'll do it and yea i'll do your humvee for you , i don't know about the guy on the 50.cal and the howitzer no problem  ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 17 July 2009, 08:35:21
You're welcome to not do the humans, and I can add them in after I get things working (downloading python right now, is 2.6.2 the right version? There's two options, but this seemed like the best, since I am still using blender 2.46, and have no intent to upgrade (if it ain't broke, why fix it?).

I am going to see the guy who hopefully has my disc on the third of august, though I'll call ahead. I am going CAMPING tomorrow for three days (fortunately, we've got our hands on some ROUGHRIDER tickets! W00T! Can't miss those games, and live beats TV anyday. Rider Pride).

Naturally, all help is appreciated, since I fell behind schedule when I lost everything. Too bad, as I expected to be nearly done by now. I should have been done all but two or three of the models if I didn't lose everything. @#@*#$@$! Oh well... All hope now lies with my friend...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Fluffy203 on 17 July 2009, 17:05:42
I have your humvee done , did it last night didn't put anything on top of it i'll leave that up to your and the textureing
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 21 July 2009, 08:45:59
Picture? :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 31 July 2009, 02:37:20
Good news, my friend has my disc! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yep, I'm happy, in case it wasn't obvious.

Bad news, I don't know when I'll see him next, hopefully in a week or so. :( (this won't impact my happiness, I won't let it!) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 31 July 2009, 02:42:59
Does this mean that this ends your help with the Glade Team?  What are your plans for your time?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 31 July 2009, 22:12:33
Awesome news, I'll be glad too see military again.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 1 August 2009, 09:03:44
I'll help the glade team for now, and when I'm done with military. I'll probably have a week or two wait, so...

Now, on a more serious business (switches to deep, business voice, you begin to feel intimidated by the wraith of OMEGA...), I need to choose 1 person. That is 1, not 10, not 100. It looks nothing like a 2, and is a long shot from a 7. Just 1. 1!!! Anway, 1 person who can safeguard a copy when I get my thing uploaded. I AM STILL BEING 'SECRETIVE', and this one person cannot distribute or really even comment about the alpha. It needs to be someone trustworthy, who can go by just one rule... "The first rule of the military alpha is you don't talk about the military alpha". No, I'm not kidding, I don't want to spoil the pleasant surprises for anyone (please let me keep my tank). And you will notice the horrible placeholders for incomplete models. I do not use the kind of placeholders you guys do. I don't take a magitech unit and make them the placeholder. I USE A BIG WHITE BLOCK WITH TEAM COLOR AND AN ABBREVIATION FOR MY PLACEHOLDER. In short, it is a crappy, but effective placeholder. Any volunteers?

 8)

Ok, we can go back to a lighter tone now! ::) Of course, you are more than welcome to remain intimidated by the wraith of OMEGA! :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: hailstone on 1 August 2009, 13:34:32
Quote
I USE A BIG WHITE BLOCK WITH TEAM COLOR AND AN ABBREVIATION FOR MY PLACEHOLDER.
Using something out of place for something that isn't suppose to be there is a very good technique. I would like a generic placeholder for things like this if the file isn't found. That way it doesn't need to crash and still be obvious that it needs to be looked at (also log to file).

I suggest the best way to backup something is to upload and not tell people the link or burn it to a CD.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 1 August 2009, 20:37:43
Yes true. I already have the copy on cd (though my friend still has it, since I haven't gotten contact yet. We've agreed that if he comes camping with my family, he'll bring it, and if not, he'll mail it).

However, this may be one way of letting one lucky person take a firsthand look at it. I actually think it may be a good idea for them to see the work firsthand!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 1 August 2009, 23:40:21
Omega, I would keep your faction safe, but I'm not going to get in the way of anyone that want to do it more.  I would also, since I have zero modeling capability, like that white box you talk about.  I should probably be doing that instead of using Magitech "equivalents".

//OFF TOPIC

I can tell you where the practice of using Magitech units as placeholders came from.  Previous to about six months ago, almost all factions were reskinning factions; factions that had no new models but maybe had reskinned Magitech models.  Then, people came to Glest who knew how to model already, thus raising the bar quite a bit.  So Dark Magic started in the reskinning era, but now finds itself in the era of original models/animations.  I always intended to get original models for Dark Magic anyways, so that's why I never quit working on it.  Thus your explanation.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 2 August 2009, 01:50:10
Omega, I'd be glad to store the backup for your faction, and don't worry, I hereby swear to secrecy.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 2 August 2009, 06:41:24
If you wanted to be even more secretive, you could put a password on the archive, and not tell it to the person holding it for you.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: silnarm on 2 August 2009, 07:00:01
Quote
I USE A BIG WHITE BLOCK WITH TEAM COLOR AND AN ABBREVIATION FOR MY PLACEHOLDER.
Using something out of place for something that isn't suppose to be there is a very good technique. I would like a generic placeholder for things like this if the file isn't found. That way it doesn't need to crash and still be obvious that it needs to be looked at (also log to file).

Yeah, Sim City 4 used cardboard boxes with ribbons on them, like a present.  Was nice and obvious and amusing at the same time...

If someone wants to 'waste' a bit of time on something similar... we would certainly appreciate it and use it in GAE.

To get back on topic, I might as well throw my hat in and put my name forward to store a back up for you.  I don't really want someone else to miss out, but I'll need to do some tests at some stage, because I believe Glest draws all the models 'straight up' all the time, so for example, a tank going up or down hill might not look so nice.  I could of course make and use a box, but testing with a tank would be more fun, and keep me motivated to fix it :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 2 August 2009, 07:04:25
I believe Glest draws all the models 'straight up' all the time, so for example, a tank going up or down hill might not look so nice.
Actually, I think the "rotated climb" parameter makes it so the model tilts while going up a hill.  I *think* that's what it's there for, anyway.  For reference, look at catapult.xml.  It's the only unit that has this feature as far as I know.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 2 August 2009, 08:23:55
Really? Last I heard that feature was obsolete and 'useless' as daniel put it.

Concerning the data storage, I am going to make a 'lottery'. Everyone will be assigned a secret number and I'll let PHP decide who wins! I don't suppose any of you got friends on that developement team? :D

Of course, you'd still have to wait until I get the disc, but the point is to serve three functions:
1. Backup the mod
2. Let one lucky person gape in awe over a unique alpha, probably at least weeks before I would release the final
3. Generate some more enthusiasm over to this thread ;D

FUTURE STUFF: I want to make a GAE only version later that will boast a few special abilities, such as those special attack effects. Any units ideas? I've considered a chemical unit, as well as giving a 'fallout' effect to the nuke.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: bisurge on 2 August 2009, 09:32:03
Hey, I haven't been on for a while. How's the mod going?
Any downloads for me to see? :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 2 August 2009, 11:08:01
Umm, to tell the truth, I lost my entire hard drive, and now am waiting for a friend who has my backup, which is a bit behind. In short, DELAYED!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: silnarm on 3 August 2009, 01:17:50
I believe Glest draws all the models 'straight up' all the time, so for example, a tank going up or down hill might not look so nice.
Actually, I think the "rotated climb" parameter makes it so the model tilts while going up a hill.  I *think* that's what it's there for, anyway.  For reference, look at catapult.xml.  It's the only unit that has this feature as far as I know.

I had seen and wondered about 'rotated climb' before, and I guess the name actually makes sense now, although I was thinking more along the lines of 'tilt on slope' or somesuch. In any case, 'last Omega heard' appears to be correct, I just tried this out, and if that's what it's meant to do, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 3 August 2009, 09:25:58
Allright, got my disc. However, it isn't intact! Military is perfectly fine and I only lost three models: RPG trooper, special ops facility, and recruitment station. Not too bad, since two are buildings. Too bad I lost the RPG guy though. He took me all day!!! :'(

Now, the lucky person to get the alpha. EVeryone who mentioned wanted to be entered was entered. If I missed you, sorry.

Modman - 1
Archmage - 2
Silnarm - 3
Bisurge - 4 (didn't 'officially' enter, but has been asking about this a bit for a long time).

So, best of 3. Here's the results.

34112323

So, first to get three is #3, silnarm. Congrats. However, stupid mediafire went on forever checking the file, stuck at 100%. It apparently was not saved to my files as well. After 20 minutes, I quit. It took 50 minutes to upload the 6MB 7zip (you heard me, 6MB! Real tiny) and I don't have time to try again. I'm going to camping tomorrow for a week. Will upload when I get back.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: bisurge on 3 August 2009, 21:07:05
Thanks for including me even though I didn't ask for it :D.
Stupid Mediafire. Use RAPIDSHARE instead!
Or Megaupload.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: silnarm on 4 August 2009, 01:01:59
So, first to get three is #3, silnarm.

Woo-hoo. I won something... really ? That never happens, maybe I should start buying lotto tickets :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: bisurge on 4 August 2009, 03:02:28
So, first to get three is #3, silnarm.

Woo-hoo. I won something... really ? That never happens, maybe I should start buying lotto tickets :)

Bid on the number 3 if no one else took it. :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 4 August 2009, 11:51:53
Well, silnarm

You won on a 1-4 chance, I don't think you'll do so well on 1-100,000+(or something like that).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 10 August 2009, 05:31:33
LOL, I'm back. Will try to upload tomorrow morn.

I finished three units during my camping trip as well, quite a surprise, since I didn't expect to be able to take my laptop!

Also, I could use a hand fixing the particle projectiles to make them look more natural. For example, setting the starting offset to be where the gun nozzel is, and a bit more as described in a todo file included in the pack. If anyone wants to volunteer to help this, they too will get a copy of the military alpha.

And arch, don't knock the loto tickets! No one thinks they'll win until they do! Besides, your chances of winning if you buy a ticket are a hell of a lot better than if you don't! ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 10 August 2009, 17:49:33
 :D Still if you lose the lottery you just lose money.

I'd love to help on the projectiles, but then you have to let me download military, and only silnarm is supposed to see it.
I consider myself very good at projectiles. I'm ok on splashes.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Mark on 10 August 2009, 18:53:55
I'd love to help on the projectiles, but then you have to let me download military, and only silnarm is supposed to see it.
I consider myself very good at projectiles. I'm ok on splashes.
Not to burst your bubble, but anyone who spends 5 minutes exploring the possibilities could consider themself very good.  :P Although people never spend that much time anyways...  ;)  I would like to help with the projections and the splashes, but I'm positive Arch would do them fine.

Lottery:  A tax for the mathematically challenged.  :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 11 August 2009, 07:51:20
:D Still if you lose the lottery you just lose money.
Tell that to the people who won.
Roughly, I estimate your chances at winning are 1:0.0000002605, or roughly 0.00002605%. Which is still 0.00002605% higher than the 0.00000000% chance of winning if you don't buy a ticket. Do the math. 0.00002605 is a lot higher than 0.000000000 (though it may depend on your opinion of 'higher').

I will get either of you (probably arch) to give me a hand positioning those. As well, I could use an eye to spot any errors or balance problems that should be fixed. However, I have been having some trouble uploading recently. 3 attempts have failed, and now I'm moving on to a different site. If that fails... Time to go wifi. Man, I hate dial-up. But when was the last time I was able to go wifi?!? Rural sucks... No matter which way I turn, I'm still sitting in the middle of nowhere. :-\
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: assassin on 11 August 2009, 11:17:35
Actually, you do have a chance of winning the lottery if you don't buy a ticket....
There was a news story here in Britain about some people who found a winning £20,000 lottery ticket on a supermarket floor...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Mark on 11 August 2009, 19:25:44
I read a story about a girl that found $5,750 in a purse and returned it to a man, and then found a $5750 lottery ticket!  Alright, I won't take insult over being passed up, but I may revise Arch's and will always be available.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: John.d.h on 11 August 2009, 19:32:32
But when was the last time I was able to go wifi?!? Rural sucks... No matter which way I turn, I'm still sitting in the middle of nowhere. :-\
I feel you there, man.  I live in a pretty big city, but somehow there's still no wifi in my neighborhood that I can get onto, probably since I live on the absolute edge of town.  If there's a library or coffee shop near your house, they might have free wifi there.  Places like Starbuck's, Dunkin Donuts, and Panera are all good, if any of those exist in your area.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 12 August 2009, 11:02:52
Let's get back on topic. Since the final release will have modified main menu, modified links, readmes, even the language file will be modified to sound 'militaryish', I am now putting it in an installer. I recently spent a full day to learn the tips of the program I used, and am now completely satisfied. I will release it in three versions: windows installer, linux installer, and 7z file. The installers have the advantage of a few extra features. For example, the windows installer also will modify the registry to recognize g3d and gbm files properly, with icons. The installers also speeds things up without increasing the filesize by much, since the same compression method is used. I will need some help in the future when I am closer to release with the linux version, since someone needs to test it, and I need to figure out what files the linux version needs. If I have the folders in the glest directory, what else needs to be added? I know linux doesn't use dlls, exes, and stuff...

Note that it uses GAE, and I'll update to the newest version when I upload the mod. For now, it's 2.12 or something...

Tested on windows, and it is a VERY nice installer, nice enough to put most installers to shame, and very small filesize. It has roughly 56MB uncompressed, or 24MB in installer form! That's almost 50% compression! It is like factory release glest, but with GAE instead, a few extras, new menus and images, new language files, custom scenarios, magitech is replaced with military, and it comes with all the maps in the omega map pack, as well as the two starting tilesets, dark forest, and winter 2 (titi's version). It installs perfects, and has a slight touch of humour, as I'll describe below:

You see, in the copying files stage, it says 'Commissioning army, hiring generals, building barracks'. If you uninstall, the removing files screen says 'Decommissioning army, beheading generals, burning barracks'. I managed to get a lot done with this, and the window version will also add glest properly to the games folder, with information. The installer looks more professional than a normal installer, and I'm proud of myself. *pats on back*

Anyway, I am having a lot of trouble uploading. I may end up being solo until I can get better internet. However, I don't expect anything until school starts (two and a half weeks!!!). I'm going to see if my neighbor's internet is password protected (or even wifi).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: ElimiNator on 12 August 2009, 14:11:40
I have linux, I can test for you.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 13 August 2009, 06:55:45
Actually, I am afraid to say that I changed how I will be doing this.

There will be three releases:

-Windows installer, with everything you need, plus some windows only thing. Added some registry keys that will allow windows to properly recognize G3D's and GBM's. May have other features in final release. Main feature is simplicity and the fact it is great standalone.

-Binaries, for any non-windows system so they may use the customly modified glest, which will definately boast numerous difficulty levels, everything GAE currently has (0.2.11) and modified button locations on menus to make room for the modified language strings (ie: yes is affirmative on military,and no is negative. There's also a comical string for if you try to load a game when there is no saved games 'In order to load a game, one must actually have saved a game'. Note that I would like some linux people to perhaps upload after they have compiled, to ensure that other linux users have it easier. I also have plans to experiment with attempting to put in other features.

-Files, for non-windows systems, to use in compliance with the binaries. Notice that since it uses GAE binaries, this mod is now the second GAE only mod ever to be released (ok, it's not released yet, but...). Seeing this, I can impliment features including guarding, improved upgrades, patrolling, effects, and emanations! This will definately make the game more enjoyable. Also, note that everything from the main menu model, menu sounds, images used on buttons, logo, models used in the about screen, the text strings (currently english only, but translatable), and more is all very different. Files will be distributed as a 7z file (LZMA compression is used in the installer, so no advantage of using this unless you have a non-windows system).

Proposed changes to the engine:
-4 Difficulty levels: easy (50% resources), normal, ultra (150% resources), and expert (200% resources).
-Moved buttons to accomodate text.
-Fix overlapping text on about screen (and give it a glest guide link ;))
-Add a few more options to the options screen, Fog of War for sure, other popular ones too
-Change the version string that is displayed in the startup and in the menu to be for military, not the gae version.
-Others, suggestions? (small enough to be fine for a novice coder, preferably not adding new parts, but improving or adding options to existing parts).

I'm open to suggestions. No estimated release date, though most likely after school starts. Even if I could finish before school starts, I would probably have to wait to upload all this (estimated size of installer: 26-28MB in solid LZMA compression).

Things to do:
-Finish models (7 to go)
-Icons (for someone else, but are last, after models)
-Particle Projectiles (the models)
-Particle Projectile XMLs (fix to ensure that bullets come from guns, not middle of unit's body,etc; may be able to put off to someone else, later, after models, before icons)
-Website (trash old one, three page new one [main page, downloads page, uninstall questions page])
-Binaries
-Main menu model
-Set up menu.xml to navigate the animation in the main menu model
-Translate the strings into at least the other two default languages. Will need help, though worst case scenario I can see how well an online translator can do.
-GAE-ize the XMLs, adding emanations, effects, guarding, patrols, etc;
-Improve some upgrades to boost stats by mulipliers, not definate amounts (seems more natural to me)
-I think it's possible to choose what stats increase and by how much as you level up. If so, I will strongly utilize this.
-Two tutorials (basic and advanced) for military
-Make an image of the tech tree layout, will include with files/installer for assistance
-Minimum 2 scripted scenarios, which can take advantage of new GAE lua features, minimum 2 non-scripted
-Would like to edit the servers.ini to have IPs for as many people as possible. Why not post yours?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 13 August 2009, 18:20:20
Wait wait wait a minute.

GAE has a TON of issues right now, and the GAE team doesn't seem to be very active right now. First before you "GAE-ise" this mod, release everything for normal Glest.
I mean, I tried GAE, but because of all it's problems I stick to normal Glest. I've been waiting so long for this mod, don't make it a GAE-only mod.

And what are .GBM files?

And could you release it in 7z and in .zip because somehow I got the 7z thing setup for my computer, but when my computer got screwed up and we installed the newest version of Kubuntu Linux, I lost that and I can't seem to be able to unpack 7z's anymore, even with Krusader
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: assassin on 13 August 2009, 19:30:47
Won't it be kinda annoying if people have to have two versions of glest?
Or will your custom version be able to run other tech trees as well?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 14 August 2009, 05:50:07
When I'm done with it, this won't be glest any more. It will be modified to the point only ingame looks similar, and only remotely so due to the lack of guns in normal glest. And I AM GAE-izing this, regardless of what you say. Besides, there's no disadvantages at all, since even the installer is smaller than the average faction download (22 MB currently, expected closer to 26 MB once released). Even once installed, it's only about 55 MB (expected 60 MB when released), still smaller than average.

Besides, two features in the original (medic and private's healing) are very much useless in normal glest. As well, I found it very horrible to have my units go running off, since military unit's high sights cause a lot of running off, and GAE's returning is very useful. As well, the patrol and guard commands seem like a natural. Emanations and effects are also a natural (fall-out damage, chemical damage, injuries, etc;). The ability to raise stats by multipliers is prooving great for raising many unit's stats. As well as improved path finding, more features, better camera (I just discovered you CAN hold down the MMB and move side to side, basically full control).

This can run other tech trees and stuff, but I guarentee you'll get so hooked on this you will need a lot of willpower to play other techs. As well, it is worth noting that stuff like menus, buttons, and language files are changed. So everything that is written in the game sounds more military like (ie: negative instead of no). I modified some of the source, did about 1/3 of the things I wanted to, then *DAMN* realized I had GAE 2.11 source instead of 2.12!!! Have to start from scratch. 2.11 has no lua! I need help, can someone give me a link to a bz2 tarball or something of the newest source? I also need the dependencies. I downloaded straight from the GAE site, so I wasn't expecting this to be an old version. I am so limited online that I hate looking for these things, especially when dependencies may have a dozen other things thrown into downloads that glest doesn't need, and that's no good on dial-up.

Say, silnarm or hailstone is most likely my best bet, since they have compiled the version themselves, so they MUST have the exact things I need. Help please? Fast replies are appreciated.

Also, a few questions:
-There was a release of code before on hiding the mouse icon thing that appears in windowed. Can someone help me find that code part?
-Where is the code for the difficulties? I found the code for the ending menu screen, and gave the case the difficulties for easy and expert, as well as I found the code for putting those difficulties into the new game screen, but can't find where to put them exactly
-Is there anyway to make the labels (in the options and about menu states) work like a link. I've tried a few things, but nothing doing.

I managed to modify the about screen and startup screen, added in some options on the options screen, and removed the ???%s??? around language strings that are not defined in the language file. That's great for debugging, but a player should never have to see ???.

And what are .GBM files?
Glest Binary Map. My new icon is a 3D picture of a world.
G3D is now defined as a Glest 3D Model, and its icon is a fragmenting cube.

And could you release it in 7z and in .zip because somehow I got the 7z thing setup for my computer, but when my computer got screwed up and we installed the newest version of Kubuntu Linux, I lost that and I can't seem to be able to unpack 7z's anymore, even with Krusader
Tell you what, rather than 7z, I'll use tbz2 format (bz2 compressed tarball), which is even more compatable, and has the second best compression.

GAE has a TON of issues right now, and the GAE team doesn't seem to be very active right now. First before you "GAE-ise" this mod, release everything for normal Glest.
I guarentee you that this custom version works flawless (better than either GAE or Glest) and works more of the way military is supposed to work. Ok, maybe I can't say that before I complete and test the custom version, but the current version based on GAE 2.12 works flawless, and all. Of course, untested on linux... But I promise I'll pick someone to do linux testing BEFORE I release.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: assassin on 14 August 2009, 10:03:41
So you are planning on doing changes to the engine as well as just the menus and stuff.
Cool!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 14 August 2009, 10:36:54
Indeed I am. I would like to do a bit more than I discussed earlier, though I admit my programming is a bit off, and I suffer from a lapse in practice and loss of all resources and references from my crash. Nor am I an expert coder, and my knowledge is roughly a year of on-and-off hobbyist coding, and have been working primarily with PHP and web languages recently, so my codings rusty...

Still, I am open to ideas for improvements.

I am wondering. Is there anything else that can be done to make an ai seem harder without rewritting the entire ai script? Say, I remember something in the GAE board in the past about a guy who had a new ai script that updated automatically. However, he said the ai was impossibly strong or something. I really can't remember. Might be neat to look into that.

Also, might try to have 'records' writing records to a text file shouldn't be hard. I may be able to use these records as requirements for scenarios. Can't play scenario B unless you have 5 wins. Or, can't play scenario C until you have 500 kills. It might be better to write to a different file, but I think that no matter what, it would be prone to cheating, so it would just have to depend on honor.

I may also try to see if I can find code for how the tga's are displayed, and see if I can use this code along with keymaps code to have a hotkey to show a map (while key is pressed, show tga, once key is up, hide tga. Tga specified in faction XML). Of course, no guarentees on that, and it would be so much easier if there was already support for a graphics library, but oh well. The graphics library should be in GAE in a matter of months.

Also, by using a method similar to the records above, it may be possible to have 'scenarios that must be done to unlock other scenarios'.

Yeah, I'm stealing ideas from modman's list, but isn't that what the list is for? Of course, I'll need the new GAE source. Can't find it anywhere. Codemonger, sourceforge, nothing. The binaries are on sourceforge, but the source is... how to put?

*mimicks explosion with hands. Thinks for a moment, then does the same thing while making creepy gurgling sounds. Seeing your expression, he tries again, this time nuking the world in the process.* :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: assassin on 14 August 2009, 12:59:02
The ONLY way to get it is this way:
You have to use the SVN. I think in Windows the easiest way to use svn is here:
http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/
Then download the source from the SVN:
https://glestae.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/glestae/trunk/source/
Unless a kind person grabs the source and uploads it on a file-sharing site. (sorry I can't,my internet upload is ****).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 15 August 2009, 00:46:42
HEy Could you give it to me before you GAE-ise it so I at least have a copy of the regular version.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 16 August 2009, 10:18:07
Well, I'll wait on the source. Silnarm might give a direct download after the next version. Hopefully updated dependancies too!

arch, I'll keep a non-gae version, but I won't upload it until after you have tried the custom version to see if it works. Unless you end up being the one to do the icons, since the person who does will probably get the version that hasn't bee GAE-ized yet.

Hmm, who does want to do the icons?

I only got 4 more units to model: the grenader, the machine gun turret, the humvee, and the howitzer. I finished the baton soldier AND the RPG trooper today. It was raining, one of the nice things about that. We needed it anyway. It's pretty hot out here. Of course, I feel sorry for those who live in BC, which right now probably has more forest fires in it than the rest of the world put together. Not to mention its as dry as hades.

Sigh, now for the hard part. Military needs a logo, which will be seen both in game (twice, once in the intro screen, once in the menu) and will also be on the website. Here's my six cadidates (choosing the font took half an hour):
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8688/81970774.png[/img]
[img]http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/848/26099628.png[/img]
[img]http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3734/93381848.png[/img]
[img]http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4596/18476564.png[/img]
[img]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8641/88679422.png[/img]
[img]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3681/42339166.png[/img]
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: assassin on 16 August 2009, 10:54:04
I prefer the bottom one.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Mark on 16 August 2009, 22:44:55
Definitely the bottom one.  The others aren't really the right genre, except the 4th one.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 16 August 2009, 23:50:43
Does it have to be in that font?  I like the fourth one's texture.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: ElimiNator on 17 August 2009, 03:44:56
4orth or bottom.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 17 August 2009, 07:51:44
Hmm, so its down to number 4 or 6...

I guess I'll test them both. However, I think 4 might show up better on the black intro screen and darker menu screen.

*And no, it doesn't HAVE to be that font, but I kinda liked that one. I tested a few, and decided to go with a non-standard font.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 17 August 2009, 20:06:07
Free fonts.  They're in army style. ;) (http://www.dafont.com/theme.php?cat=114&page=1&nb_ppp_old=50&text=Military&nb_ppp=50&psize=m&classt=pop)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 17 August 2009, 23:10:56
I like this one http://www.dafont.com/wc-wunderbach-mix-bta.font?nb_ppp=50&text=Military (http://www.dafont.com/wc-wunderbach-mix-bta.font?nb_ppp=50&text=Military)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 18 August 2009, 09:55:08
WOW! I really gotta thank you for that link modman. That's a great site! I love the fonts!

I am split between three fonts, all which feel very military like to me, though I am personally leaning towards this 'shot-up' one.

I'll 'work my magic' and show you three samples to choose from, based on the designs you guys liked before.

Also, in another note, the grenader and howitzer are now completed, and there is only 2 units to go! However, there's still all the images. Once done, I'll do the images, then save that copy since it is the last step before gae-izing the mod. I am NOT releasing it early on a normal version, don't ask me to.

Anyway, whoever does the images will get the download, along with silnarm. However, they will be split 7z archives. I expect to be done before school starts, and don't want to wait, so I'll have to break it up to get it to work better. Just two parts.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: gameboy on 18 August 2009, 16:18:55
didn't i make a few images for u?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 18 August 2009, 17:27:00
Please back it up with silnarm!  I would hate to see you do that work again.

I'm pleased you like the site; I found a few fonts myself that I like.  For example, Lombardic is the font used in concept art and the official faction diagram for Magitech, and I think on glest.org too.  So I downloaded that one.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 19 August 2009, 05:19:27
Yes, I must upload it soon. I think in a day or two I'll be done all modeling. Just 1 more unit to go, the humvee! It won't be too hard. Attack animation is a still, as is the stop. Move just has spinning wheels, and die is just like the tank: burned out texture, wheels fallen off, and gun broken. I have been doing heavy testing, and everything looks good. Yes GameBoy, you made SOME images for me, but unless you volunteer to make the rest, I cannot use two different image styles. SO either you continue the job, somebody else start from scratch, or somebody else continue with your style (go back a few pages to try and find them).

Volunteers?

PS: Concerning fonts on that sight, how is 'personal use' defined? Is it non commercial or single user? Can I use any of those fonts for Military logo, or does it have to be a plain ol' 'free' font.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 19 August 2009, 08:10:00
Ok, here's the four candidates. Personally, I like one and four myself.
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8721/52858839.png[/img]
[img]http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3527/50773801.png[/img]
[img]http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8569/29053937.png[/img]
[img]http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8223/45654159.png[/img]

Please vote on the one you want. Note that if you like the font of one, but the style (the colors, etc of the font) of another, tell me, as I can easily mix and match.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: gameboy on 19 August 2009, 10:46:13
four, it would be cool if u could replace the alpha with a some rust or dirt.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 19 August 2009, 14:17:00
One or four
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: ElimiNator on 19 August 2009, 15:27:08
1 or 4 (Different texture.).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Mark on 19 August 2009, 18:51:59
#4, with rust as the alpha, like gameboy said.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 19 August 2009, 19:30:16
I'm not so sure about replacing the alpha. You see, as I've tested, any background looks horrible in glest. Just really the text looks good. Also, do note that you will see this on either a black background (in the starting intro screens) or a moving background (in the menu screens). I may be able to add rust INTO the text though.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 19 August 2009, 20:45:25
I like number one.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 20 August 2009, 03:56:49
ALL RIGHT! I am now done all the units models! Now all that's left is the images, the GAE-izing, the main menu model, and compiling the excutable. The main menu model will take a day maybe, while the images I'll leave for someone else because I suck at that, and some of you are just so good at it. The GAE-izing will take maybe a day, maybe two, depending on errors. The compiling depends, since I need to get MSVS 2008 downloaded first, so it may be a week before I can do so. However, doing the changes I need should only take a few days, give or take for errors and debugging. Then it's two days of testing. I'll upload the finished one, silnarm gets a few days to test it for me, and then it's released!

ETA: 2 weeks.

Judging from popular votes, it looks like I'll be using # 4 for image logo.

That's all for now, I'll try to upload it soon, but it really depends, since I need at least 2 hours. The total size is 9MB compressed or 30MB uncompressed. Silnarm and whoever will do the images will get the first download. Note that 7zip IS NEEDED for that download, since it is broken into 4MB parts.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: bisurge on 20 August 2009, 19:16:17
Yay! Almost done!
I never learned XML or modeling.
Shame on me D:.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 21 August 2009, 04:50:56
GAE-izing almost done (don't worry, saved a copy of the normal version onto a DVD). All levels, emanations, etc; are done. Just need to do guard and patrol commands, and the upgrades. Work for an hour! Who ever does the images will get the GAE version, since patrol and guard need images! I included the 7zip.exe console app, and a .bat file with the command line parameters for making the 7zip of it with just the bitmap files, so that you have a VERY easy way of putting JUST the bitmap files into an archive to give to me while keeping folder structure. It is for windows.

Other OS's must have 7zip installed, and you must run the console version of 7zip with this:

Code: [Select]
7z a -t7z military_icons.7z *.bmp -r -m0=BCJ -m1=LZMA:d=21 -ms -mmtMade it myself! Tested, and it works. It will put just the images in a archive titled military_icons.7z with the highest compression needed.

However, I STILL NEED A DEFINATE VOLUNTEER FOR ICONS!!! I LOATH doing 2D icons, and am horrible with icons. Some of you guys put me to shame. Gameboy? Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzz? :)

Upload times unknown. Probably in a day or two for the first part, but there's three parts, and very hard to predict on this internet. Will have to see how it goes. Note that windows is needed if you want to use the easy use bat file I included. Anything else must use 7zip and the console code I gave, or a different archiver, where hopefully they know how to add the bmp's only.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: bisurge on 21 August 2009, 09:24:12
Will this be another beta or alpha or whatever, or will this be the real thing?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: gameboy on 21 August 2009, 14:02:07
dude i would love to do the icons, but i'm really busy with life right now, got exams coming next month and i have to score well 'cause last time i was sick and didn't do that good :(, if u want me to it its gonna take a while...

maybe u could release it and then i'll work on the icons :)

here's a download of all my source files of the icons, if anyone wants to finish them they can. all u have to do is to paint the shape in the layer mask and give each object a distinctive shadow.

Code: [Select]
http://www.filefactory.com/file/ah258fe/n/Military_Icons_rar
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 21 August 2009, 20:36:45
I'm going to be away for a few days. I realized GAE isnt as stable as I first thought, so I will release a vanilla glest version, though it isnt as good. The GAEizing is done, and it all works, but during my second play, it crashed for no reason. However, since I never got a glest error (it was a windows 'glest has stopped working' error), it may just be my comp.

Anyway, will try and get the Main menu model done while away. There's a lot of icons, but I'll try and upload soon. Howabout a public beta?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 21 August 2009, 20:43:13
Yea! A public beta.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 25 August 2009, 04:39:49
GRAH!!!

Meh.

Apparently effects and emantations arent as stable as I thought. All  have been removed except the nuke's effect and the medics emanation. Which isn't that big of a deal anyway...

All levels, upgrades, etc; remain.

So far, no crashes. I also have 4 scenarios, and 1 is part 1 of a 3 part scenario: 'End of Morning'. Part 1 is 'World War III'. Part 2 will be an esponage one. I REALLY am proud of it, since it has a storyline, and works like a charm. Beta testing is being done personally until I can upload. I think best time to upload is on school computers. School starts on the 27th for me. Silnarm gets 2 days to test, and then beta goes public. If I use school computers, I will make it a playable faction only, meaning no main menu or anything.

NEWS: I am now done the main menu. It is GREAT and is nice and sunny, unlike the dark glest. It also has completely custom rotations and stuff of the camera. I spent over 4 hours perfecting the menu rotations and angles, and maybe 3 hours for the model (since it's all mostly modeled, just needed to be placed and stuff.

I really like my sky. Here's a pic from the root camera pos:
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1980/mainmenuj.jpg[/img]
Bah, need a better way to compile. Gotta download VS2008, but it is probably really big. Anyone know the exact size for the express edition? I dunno if it's possible for a friend to download it, since it's not a standard installer, if I remember right...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: silnarm on 25 August 2009, 09:20:00
NEWS: I am now done the main menu. It is GREAT and is nice and sunny, unlike the dark glest. It also has completely custom rotations and stuff of the camera. I spent over 4 hours perfecting the menu rotations and angles, and maybe 3 hours for the model (since it's all mostly modeled, just needed to be placed and stuff.
Nice looking menu, can't wait to check out the new transitions.

Quote
Bah, need a better way to compile. Gotta download VS2008, but it is probably really big. Anyone know the exact size for the express edition? I dunno if it's possible for a friend to download it, since it's not a standard installer, if I remember right...

About 80 MB I think, but I can't remember if that was before I installed Visual C# or not, they share a lot of components, so the second download is a fair bit smaller.
It is a online installer by default, but I believe you can get an 'offline' installer.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: ElimiNator on 25 August 2009, 14:29:06
Hay that menu looks really good! :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: gameboy on 25 August 2009, 15:56:20
yeah, but i think that black and white building could use some work.

btw nice new avatar Eliminator :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: modman on 25 August 2009, 19:03:44
I still think that the tank looks ultra awesome!  Maybe there should be a mushroom cloud in the background, and if you add sepia-tone effect to the sky, it could look pretty cool (like an old newspaper, but that's probably not what you're after anyhow).

Maybe you want to experiment with a more war-torn landscape/color scheme.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 26 August 2009, 05:12:20
To tell the truth, I wanted a lighter, friendlier scene, rather than war torn. And I stand by the Ops Facility (or the 'black and white building' as you called it) I think it looks good.

BTW: wanna know a secret about the tank? I screwed up on the treads. They were supposed to have tread textures, but I forgot about them, and the texture is just the entire thing repeated over and over... Of course, since it is impossible to see the treads closeup, even in the menu, I will not fix it.

Have to see if I can find an offline installer once school starts (TOMORROW...).

More testing has been done. Working on the scenarios. Gotta download my map pack to use in here!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: bisurge on 29 August 2009, 08:08:16
All these dates just keep being pushed back and back.
You're on your way to Nintendo, man  ::).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 31 August 2009, 02:14:42
I got worse news for you. The custom executable will have to wait for the next version of GAE. They broke too much with this version, but I need some of this versions features. I will release public beta 1 in a few days, whenever I get on a school computer... It is a full version with windows installer and will be made to run standalone, but using the original GAE, and some features may be broken and unstable. Some crashes may occur until next version of GAE fixes errors.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: -Archmage- on 31 August 2009, 19:39:16
Dude seriously..........................................a windows installer, what about Linux and MAC.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 1 September 2009, 17:33:01
Meh, I'll release official AFTER gae 0.2.13. For now, I'm uploading JUST a beta of the tech tree, with no maps, scenarios, or menus. Silnarm has been PMed, and I'll post the link publicly for the rest of you after 4 days.

My school uploaded this is 2 minutes, so I'm happy. The final CAN come with a linux install, since I have the programs I need, but then I need a precompiled binary of gae 0.2.13 (after release). I cannot test it, so certify nothing.

The custom version can also be compiled by someone else and uploaded to me so I can make a linux version. For mac... I dunno. The easiest way would be to use the windows installer and an emulator. However, I'll have one copy of a tbz2 archive that will have everything EXCEPT the binaries and DLLs, that way they can use their own executable, however the heck it works... They'd need to compile from source if they want to use the custom version.

To sqash your theory Bisurge, the tech tree has just been uploaded, but for four days, it's silnarms.

@Silnarm, post the link I PMed you after four days. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: bisurge on 4 September 2009, 05:53:39
Just tell me when the real thing comes out. Like the final beta.
I don't want to play some glitchy thing.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 4 September 2009, 18:58:31
http://www.mediafire.com/?yzhz3myzlmz

Download the beta now.

New news:
The 'End of Morning' series is now 5 scenarios long. It gets longer each level, and has TWO unique units (spy and 200,000HP bunker [the final 'boss']). All planned out.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- http://glest.110mb.com/military
Post by: Omega on 7 September 2009, 17:31:44
Some more changes. There is now a woopin' 10+ SCRIPTED scenarios. Of course, there is no regular ones. This is because if I only script the startup, I can give you units and resources, then show a few messages, and then it's back to normal. Much more fun!

End of morning scenario has been switched to a new catigory in the gae scenarios folder. The final boss (the bunker) now has 350,000 HP, 20 defense, and the ability to chain production of marines. Still, once everything else is killed, this isn't that hard, probably since it can't attack!

Not all parts of the scenarios are done, and they aren't completely playable, since I need a way to check for things, meaning I NEED that GAE interval code! So, just makin' new stuff while waiting for 0.2.13.

I've added the background image (you know that still image behind the loading screen and score screen).

Improved a few units as well.

The beta is in full working condition, not the least bit glinchy. This is actually MAYBE the final tech tree (except for unique scenario only units), and a few tiny stat changes. However, it is just the tech tree, all the SA-WEET incentives will wait!

http://www.mediafire.com/?yzhz3myzlmz (http://www.mediafire.com/?yzhz3myzlmz)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: Omega on 10 September 2009, 05:44:03
So, to aid daniel, I will detail how the GAE seemed to crash upon using some emanations. It appears to have effected some random ones, all following the source demonstrated in the Wiki. They used various ones, and oddly, I was unable to point it down. My best guess is it must be in some modifiers, though it isn't my area of expertise which, especially since the modifiers were usually in large numbers. I only used multipliers, and no statics for effects.

Yet, I wonder if it has to do with the merger. I suppose it would be a good idea to test on 0.2.11, but my internet sucks, so downloading isn't an option. Since I deleted the malfunctional code (perhaps not the best decission), I guess it won't be possible to pinpoint it. Will have to have a go at the FPM sometime to see if it's working...?!?

Sorry that's probably not too helpful...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: ElimiNator on 11 September 2009, 23:25:00
Its a good mod but there are many bugs in it I had to fix all the upgrades and all the units that can attack.
Is it just me, is it just Linux, or is it every one?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: Omega on 12 September 2009, 04:47:21
Bugs? Bugs?!? BUGS?!?!? What are you talking about?!? A little more detail? As far as I know, everything is functional, and I left out spacing, and everything is lowercase, so in short, it should be 100% linux compatible.

BTW: Change Log:
-Three levels of tutorial (basic, advanced, expert) now added
-Two more scenarios (scripted): Start of a Tyrant and Return of the Tyrant.
-Special Op attack is changed using a lightening style of proj (GAE only).
-Fixed some balance issues.
-Added in a scenario: End of a Legend, which uses the unique bunker-style building called Yurijan's Palace (it makes sense in the scenario).

I see a few downloads, but so few comments! Comment please! Areas of improvement, what you liked, or just plain 'SA-WEET's.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: assassin on 13 September 2009, 07:35:43
Nice mod!!!!!
The only improvement would be to make the private's head look less like the tech workers head. It's kinda dull having a similar looking worker in every mod. 
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: bisurge on 13 September 2009, 08:00:00
Uhm, guys...
This might be ridiculous but I don't know how to install this mod.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: assassin on 13 September 2009, 09:50:25
extract the zip to you C:/program files/glest/techs folder  ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: -Archmage- on 13 September 2009, 13:25:44
Or if you have Linux: /usr/share/games/glest
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: assassin on 13 September 2009, 14:50:44
well, it depend where you installed glest in linux seing how gae has no packages you have to do it manually  :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: bisurge on 13 September 2009, 18:56:16
I think I put it into the actual Glest instead of GAE.
Fail.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: Omega on 20 September 2009, 01:28:46
Must be GAE 0.2.11+. Final version will require GAE 0.2.13.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: -Archmage- on 21 September 2009, 12:00:54
Well, I can't wait.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: Omega on 21 September 2009, 18:56:36
Updates:
Now 21 scripted scenarios included
Map count is up to 60 (including 5 scenario only maps [End of Morning])
Fixed Particle Proj of Special Op
Some stat modifiers
Changed tilesets that are included. All nicely customized (dark forest and winter forest II, massively modified)
Added winter style grass (walkable) as custom object 1 in winter II
Fixed a few 'bugs' in scenarios

Still to do: Parts 2 and 5 of End of Morning series. Part 5 is next, but part 2 will need timers. Also, must add the new version of GAE (0.2.12a) just until 0.2.13 comes out. To make sure it all works!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: Omega on 24 September 2009, 16:23:25
I think I may release a 'full' beta that will have almost everything using the Glest 0.2.12a version. It is NOT well tested, and I am not including the 'end of morning' series since it needs 0.2.13.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: ElimiNator on 24 September 2009, 16:27:35
Sounds good where is the Glest 0.2.12a version?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: Omega on 24 September 2009, 16:28:50
GAE board. post is stickied, but the post is down low in the list.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: bisurge on 25 September 2009, 05:00:36
Still haven't gotten around to installing it. :(
I don't think I will until I get a new computer, actually, because my visuals for Glest are very screwed up.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Beta Download Released!
Post by: Omega on 25 September 2009, 21:22:50
All right, the installer is ready, and a tbz2 file is available for those who do not have the fortune of having windows (though it still has an exe, which would need either an emulator or to be replaced with whatever executable is used for your OS). Recommended that you use Windows, since the installer has a few bonuses that are windows only.

It is FULLY functional, however, images are NOT done (going to do them this weekend, as no one else wants to  :'( ) and the stage 2 of the End of Morning series is not functional. It uses 0.2.12a, but you do not have to do anything, since it installs standalone with its own executable. Even makes its own uninstaller and adds an entry to the windows uninstall list.

It adds some increased G3D and GBM support for your computer. Tested on three computers, all working.

Just got to upload...

So hopefully I'll get it uploaded on MONDAY when school resumes. Total sizes:

Installer: 24.3 MB
TBZ2: 24.2 MB

Just wait for it! :) :) :)

I can fully guarentee it will be loved (aside from the lack of icons).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Webpage!
Post by: Omega on 30 September 2009, 04:31:39
Please check out the new webpage. I was lazy, so I just used someone else's template (I *heart* CC). Why doesn't Glest use the Creative Commons license? Why the GPL? I'm no legal expert, but what advantage does the GPL have over the CC in Glest's case (after all, CC can allow complete modification, but allow you to request that the users credit you).

Anyway, comment on the site. Download page to be completed soon. The links will go up there once I can upload. I haven't been on a school computer for more than ten minutes yet! Ugh... I hate this...

http://glest.110mb.com/military

COMMENT!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Webpage!
Post by: -Archmage- on 30 September 2009, 05:12:50
Very nice!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Webpage!
Post by: Omega on 30 September 2009, 18:45:57
HS!!! Filefront ROCKS! I was uploading at 7mbps!!!

Windows Install:
http://www.filefront.com/14631165/Military%20Install.exe

Windows TBZ2 (for those alergic to installers):
http://www.filefront.com/14631175/military_2.1.tbz2

Military Files (For linux/mac/etc):
http://www.filefront.com/14631171/military_files.7z

I'll update the webpage when I get the chance at home (maybe tonight?).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ElimiNator on 30 September 2009, 19:32:57
OK your mod has big bugs I don't know about the new winnows installer or how the old one works on Linux but all your upgrades and units that can attack were not working, you had it like this,
Code: [Select]
                <command>

<type value="guard"/>------------<The type needs to be stop>
<name value="guard"/>
<image path="../baton_soldier/images/guard.bmp"/>

<unit-requirements/>
<upgrade-requirements/>

<move-skill value="move_skill"/>
<stop-skill value="stop_skill"/>

<attack-skill value="attack_skill"/>

<max-distance value="2"/>

</command>

<command>

<type value="patrol"/>---------<The type needs to be move>
<name value="patrol"/>

<image path="../baton_soldier/images/patrol.bmp"/>

<unit-requirements/>

<upgrade-requirements/>

<move-skill value="move_skill"/>

<attack-skill value="attack_skill"/>

<max-distance value="2"/>

</command>

This was in all units that can attack, and a similar bug in the upgrades.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 30 September 2009, 20:10:55
Testing Installer.

It all works fine! :)
Awesome mod, your voice sounds different then I would have expected.

I just realized, you can start it by going through the installer, but when you try to start it from the chortcut, or from the glestadv.exe, it just crashes without an error message........just like GAE(and I used the GAE installer).............................................................................................somethings not right...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 1 October 2009, 19:02:47
I'll check out that shortcut thing, though I'm quite sure it works fine (for me at least).

Elimnator, you are WRONG!

Guard:
https://docs.megaglest.org/GAE/Guide#Guard_Command

Patrol:
https://docs.megaglest.org/GAE/Guide#Patrol_Command

Please make sure you know what you are doing before you say anything. I tested this heavily, though I only tested the installer on the default options. I hope I'll have the shortcuts fixed for 2.2 (icons!).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 1 October 2009, 19:15:12
Hmmm, do you think it would help if I took a video of myself running the installation, and then trying to run Military.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 2 October 2009, 18:46:25
Wait, here's the new v2.2 with ICONS!!! Yay. They look fantasic IMO. Not perfect, but fantastic none-the-less.

Windows Install:
http://www.filefront.com/14643031/Military%202.2%20Install.exe

Windows TBZ2 (for those alergic to installers):
http://www.filefront.com/14643041/military-2.2.tbz2

Linux files to come, but the TBZ2 works perfect for linux (though it includes the exe and dlls, which you can delete).

CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME A DOWNLOAD LINK FOR A LINUX VERSION OF GAE 0.2.12a?

Comment!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 3 October 2009, 00:03:07
When I click on "Download Now!", the site redirects me back to the page where I click "Download Now", after it flashes the page it should show me, right by my face.
So I want to Download it but I cannot.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 4 October 2009, 22:17:24
I tested the windows installer version right now. I clicked the download now button and it worked perfectly fine. Try again. Maybe something went wrong?

Or try this direct link (no guarentees):
http://download840.filefront.com/zgdxecmubc9g/14643031/Military+2.2+Install.exe
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 4 October 2009, 22:28:43
Thanks will try.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 6 November 2009, 04:10:31
CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME A DOWNLOAD LINK FOR A LINUX VERSION OF GAE 0.2.12a?
Link with Linux 32 and 64 bit binaries GAE 0.2.12a: http://sourceforge.net/projects/glestae/files/

NOTE: I do believe the glestae_binaries_trunk/revision_305 is the 32 bit version of GAE 0.2.12a but I might be wrong.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 8 November 2009, 13:11:17
Thanks, though I decided a linux installer will wait for the final, which needs 0.2.13... If only the GAE guys could release it!

BTW: What'd you think of military. Topic's been a bit dead...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 8 November 2009, 15:37:41
BTW: What'd you think of military. Topic's been a bit dead...
I myself did not even downloaded it, sorry.... Can only devote so much time to gaming... :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 8 November 2009, 15:40:18
I downloaded, and it only ran from the installer.......
I thought it was kind of ridiculous, the sounds were weird, the music, if I remember correctly was plain cartoony for "military", I thought this was going to be a serious mod.......
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Mark on 8 November 2009, 21:59:08
I downloaded, and it only ran from the installer.......
I thought it was kind of ridiculous, the sounds were weird, the music, if I remember correctly was plain cartoony for "military", I thought this was going to be a serious mod.......
I never played it, but I checked the models and the XMLs.  I don't have that much time, Omega!  The music was a song that I forgot the name of, but it is on the tip of my tongue.  It sounded like it was played on a synthesizer!  I would think for the theme of a rather 'stately' military that Military seems to be, you would want something majestic, not what he had.  But I really thought military should have been the war-torn landscape type faction.  That could have really exciting or sad music.  Or maybe even a 'Jungle Wars' theme, with an intense action soundtrack.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 9 November 2009, 15:49:11
Send me a good music before GAE 0.2.13 is released and I'll use it!

I thought it was kind of ridiculous, the sounds were weird, the music, if I remember correctly was plain cartoony for "military", I thought this was going to be a serious mod.......
Sounds to me like you're only judging the music. What about the models, textures, etc;
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 9 November 2009, 15:59:20
Quote
Quote from: -Archmage- on November 08, 2009, 11:45:06
I thought it was kind of ridiculous, the sounds were weird, the music, if I remember correctly was plain cartoony for "military", I thought this was going to be a serious mod.......
Sounds to me like you're only judging the music. What about the models, textures, etc;

The sounds and music are a big part of the game, the models and textures looked fine to me...



I'll try to find some good music for you, k.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: bisurge on 13 November 2009, 03:13:56
I can't run the freaking mod.
The graphics don't work.
-1 AMD Athlon 1500+ Single Core (1.34 GHz)
-1 607 MB RAM (THEY DON'T EVEN MAKE THOSE ANYMORE!!!)
-1 Ati Radeon 9250 (seriously, 256 MB but 200 MHz processor fail)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 13 November 2009, 07:26:40
I finally downloaded this mod for the first time and gave it a spin.  It's going to sound like I'm pointing out just negatives and no positives, but before I start I just want to say that overall this mod is fairly well-done so far.

Now for a quick, berating run-down:
That's all I can think of for now.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 13 November 2009, 12:38:31
Well the music drove me out of the game, I couldn't get into a good battle mood with a guy saying: "alrighty" and then a squeaky: "Sir yes sir".
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: assassin on 13 November 2009, 16:32:26
I just played this mod. The units were great, but the music had me laughing really hard. It just doesn't fit.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 16 November 2009, 16:57:10
I finally downloaded this mod for the first time and gave it a spin.  It's going to sound like I'm pointing out just negatives and no positives, but before I start I just want to say that overall this mod is fairly well-done so far.

Now for a quick, berating run-down:
  • Needs different music!  With that tune, I kept expecting to hear a gravelly voice say "and I think to myself, what wonderful woooorrrrld". :P
  • The sound the buildings make when they're destroyed is a bit lame.  It sounds like a stock sound effect from a powerpoint or something.
  • What's with the voices?  Almost all of them sound odd in one way or another, and I think I heard some of my units change gender a couple times.
  • Having retextured Magitech models right alongside your own is a bit odd because of the different styles.
  • I think the Ops Facility is much too big.  It's hard to find enough room in the base to put it.
  • The models and textures are (almost all) top-notch.  On the other hand, damn near all the animations are... frankly, crap.
  • I know it's not your strong suit, but proofreading your spelling would help.
  • Who taught you how to hold a gun!?

That's all I can think of for now.
Damn it, I laghed so hard reading this that I'm going to get in trouble!!!
Tell me what I misspelled, and I believe someone else is getting music. The voices and SFX could be fixed. Someone want to help with voices? My parents aren't too willing and my voice is obviously lame (the reason it 'changed gender' is from tone changes with audocity. OOPS!).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 16 November 2009, 17:02:33
Your voice isn't lame, it's just not grown up.
Dude are you seriously 15, my voice is almost definitely deeper than yours, which is odd.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: assassin on 16 November 2009, 19:12:10
Peoples voices break at different times.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 16 November 2009, 19:27:23
Hey dude, I'm already going to use this music in a mod but it would be perfect for military.
It's called final salute, from Hart's War, a POW camp movie that is absolutely spectacular.
Look it up on beemp3.com, download it, convert it, and use it.
Unless you want the converted version from me, that's all ready for Glest, I can get it too you by Tuesday evening.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 17 November 2009, 02:40:56
Damn it, I laghed so hard reading this that I'm going to get in trouble!!!
Tell me what I misspelled, and I believe someone else is getting music. The voices and SFX could be fixed. Someone want to help with voices? My parents aren't too willing and my voice is obviously lame (the reason it 'changed gender' is from tone changes with audocity. OOPS!).
Grenader -> Grenadier
Hanger -> Hangar
Aerodymics -> Aerodynamics

I (hopefully) handy reference:
Code: [Select]
[URL=http://img43.imageshack.us/i/gunwrong.jpg/][IMG]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8315/gunwrong.th.jpg[/img][/URL][URL=http://img43.imageshack.us/i/guncorrect.jpg/][IMG]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5548/guncorrect.th.jpg[/img][/URL]
[url=http://img43.imageshack.us/g/guncorrect.jpg/]You know the drill; click for full-size.[/url]

Hey dude, I'm already going to use this music in a mod but it would be perfect for military.
It's called final salute, from Hart's War, a POW camp movie that is absolutely spectacular.
Look it up on beemp3.com, download it, convert it, and use it.
That really doesn't sound legal...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 17 November 2009, 12:23:56
Well I don't know, I really can't find any legal stuff.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 18 November 2009, 16:40:21
I'll check the music. Let's see what I can find for legals...

AS for you John, aren't you being a bit strict? I mean, magitech doesn't even usually hit the foe with their swords! I doubt I'll be changing my unit's shooting techniques!

Quote
Grenader -> Grenadier
Hanger -> Hangar
Aerodymics -> Aerodynamics
Thanks!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 18 November 2009, 16:52:03
Dude magitech models look realistic, these make no sense, I've shot a gun before, and I know that it would probably damage that guys arm when he fired.
I remember back when I was 10, I shot an ak-47, dude I could barely lift the thing, and when I fired it I almost fell over backwards, then I put it on a bench and it was much easier, I mean, Chris(my mom's boyfriend) who brought me, told me to have to the gun stock hard against my shoulder, so the gun woudn't go flying outta my hands!
You would understand if you fired a gun Omega. You see people in the movies and stuff running and shooting, for one, they're well prepared for it so they make it look good, they do that scene multiple times, and he doesn't fire a bullet, so he doesn't get as much kick when he fires.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 18 November 2009, 20:59:09
If the poses were fairly close to realistic, I would say I was being strict, but as things are now, they're not even close.  As long as the stock of the rifle is up against the shoulder, I'm happy.  That's about as close as it has to be for Glest, since most players aren't going to be zooming in.

You would understand if you fired a gun Omega. You see people in the movies and stuff running and shooting, for one, they're well prepared for it so they make it look good, they do that scene multiple times, and he doesn't fire a bullet, so he doesn't get as much kick when he fires.
On top of that, the infantryman seems to be using an M-1 Garand, which was a big heavy solid-wood monstrosity that kicked like a mule.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 18 November 2009, 21:22:08
Quote
On top of that, the infantryman seems to be using an M-1 Garand, which was a big heavy solid-wood monstrosity that kicked like a mule.
:D Sounds Painfull!! :P That guys are should have popped off! :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 19 November 2009, 03:51:32
Oh, I just thought of another thing!  All the buildings have polygons on the bottom.  The player never sees these faces, so all they're doing is adding to the polygon count, slowing down the game, and taking up space.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 25 November 2009, 15:54:59
The polycount on the bottom is almost NILL!!! Very little, and won't make a difference! Its particles that slow stuff down!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 25 November 2009, 21:14:07
Still, why include it if it adds nothing to the experience?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 30 November 2009, 23:47:45
Good question. While this isn't a sufficent answer, it's merely because its more trouble and difficulty to remove it than to leave it and have an extra two faces (minimum for a simple square bottom, but regardless, its always very low).

I can healthily assure you that even the old machines of 10 years old shouldn't have trouble. I mean, some of my units have polycounts lower than the magitech does.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: bisurge on 8 December 2009, 06:51:09
Sorry I haven't been around (or even tried this mod yet).
I'm still working on getting a new computer (and getting a new graphics card so I can replace my crappy Radeon 9250).
Okay, so apparently there's an argument over position of guns. Just make the model down when they're not firing, and up on the shoulder when they are.
Also, I still see you guys are using... pretty ancient weapons. M1 Garand was the standard issue during World War 1.
How about some M16A4s or AK74s or M4A1s or some LMGs like the M249/Minimi and M2 Browning turrets? That would be really awesome. Even more awesome if you include designated marksman weapons like the M22/M14, along with sniper weapons. Oh yeah, don't forget the M134 Minigun. :P
Those are modern weapons, just to name a few. Militias can use HK MP5s or HK UMP. Generic militia stuff. Or AK47s, those are pretty unwieldy and don't require training.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 8 December 2009, 07:43:11
Personally, I kinda like that the starting infantryman uses such an old rifle.  The tech tree provides a nice sort of timeline progression as the units gets more advanced.

Infantry w/ M1 Garand (1936) -> Marine w/ AK-47 (1947) -> Spec Op w/ MP5 (1966) -> B-2 Spirit (1997)

*The Infantry might be using an M1903 Springfield instead.  I can't tell the difference.  Also, it's hard to say what gun the Spec Op uses, but it looks like an MP5 to me.  Additionally, the Marine should probably be using an M-14. :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Mark on 30 December 2009, 01:28:29
Yes.  Only in movies do soldiers shoot from the hips and hit targets.  You really should fix that, I think.  But that is something I really should research.  I know that back in the day when soldiers used arquebuses and early muskets (before rifling obviously, really circa 14-1500) the soldiers shot from the middle of the chest, with the top of the stock about at the collarbone.  I know that ended pretty quick, but it is interesting to see how many games get that wrong.  Medieval 2 does, which is interesting because everybody thinks it is perfectly historically accurate. 

Also, I like how the technology really progresses.  I think that you could even go into the future more, but without going into GIANT techtrees your concept is good. 
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 31 December 2009, 02:03:53
That's true. However, with this many models, and the fact that I don't have the blends, I do NOT want to remodel every infantry. I'm sure you guys understand.

I would like to improve this sometime in the future, but the problem is, I can't use GAE. I can't even make the stage 2 of the mod (though if I can find a volunteer, I can try and code blind then submit it to them to test it, but they'd need at least so-so lau skills so that any small errors could be fixed. (Anyone? I would like to release a proper final for this mod)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 31 December 2009, 20:09:00
Hi, I keep getting this error "R6025
- pure virtual function call"
what does it mean, and how can I fix it... I did a google search on it, and it seems it's related to C++
Code: [Select]
[URL=http://img198.imageshack.us/i/screenshot54oy.jpg/][IMG]http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6775/screenshot54oy.th.jpg[/img][/URL] [URL=http://img691.imageshack.us/i/screenshot50a.jpg/][IMG]http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/2350/screenshot50a.th.jpg[/img][/URL][URL=http://img199.imageshack.us/i/screenshot51o.jpg/][IMG]http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2756/screenshot51o.th.jpg[/img][/URL][URL=http://img199.imageshack.us/i/screenshot49s.jpg/][IMG]http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5294/screenshot49s.th.jpg[/img][/URL][URL=http://img691.imageshack.us/i/screenshot38x.jpg/][IMG]http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/8800/screenshot38x.th.jpg[/img][/URL][URL=http://img189.imageshack.us/i/screenshot41kz.jpg/][IMG]http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6645/screenshot41kz.th.jpg[/img][/URL]
Thanks, and Happy New Year :)

Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 31 December 2009, 20:34:22
Ah, this is GAE's BIGGEST FRIGGIN' BUG.

GAE developers should see here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/125749

I think I'll go to their board and complain a bit. Almost forgot about this bug (though I've only seen it a couple of times).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 31 December 2009, 20:39:38
Ah, this is GAE's BIGGEST FRIGGIN' BUG.

GAE developers should see here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/125749

I think I'll go to their board and complain a bit. Almost forgot about this bug (though I've only seen it a couple of times).
Yeah, yep.
I get it almost every single time when a play this military faction... happens in a middle of a game...
for scenarios, it happens after a minute...
for the "normal" GAE, I never got this error before...
Oh well, thanks for replying.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 31 December 2009, 23:01:49
Military uses an older version of GAE, I think that you should probably play one of the other mods(like Romans) until Omega updates it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 31 December 2009, 23:11:11
Hmm, yes. I need a volunteer. Someone who has GAE 0.2.12b (or whatever the version is called again). Since I can't get GAE working, I'll have to do the last scenario blind, as well as impliment the new GAE using just what I know... If anyone wants to volunteer, there is no requirements EXCEPT minor knowledge of Lau (so that any minor scripting errors could be repaired), and knowledge of how to use GAE and its folder structure. I don't expect many errors, since I know GAE pretty well, and am quite familiar with its Lau, but I definately need a PRIVATE tester who can help me with this. I really want to release a final!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 31 December 2009, 23:26:18
Military uses an older version of GAE, I think that you should probably play one of the other mods(like Romans) until Omega updates it.
Yeah, I saw that. Was wondering about that...
Yeah, your Roman Faction was nice.  :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: hailstone on 31 December 2009, 23:57:03
Hi, I keep getting this error "R6025
- pure virtual function call"
what does it mean, and how can I fix it... I did a google search on it, and it seems it's related to C++
You shouldn't get this error if you are using GAE 0.2.12b. see http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/glestae/ticket/3
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 31 December 2009, 23:59:03
Hailstone, as stated, Military does not use version 0.2.12b.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 1 January 2010, 00:38:31
So its fixed in the newest version? Fantastic! Hailstone, can you help me? As I mentioned above, I want to port military to 0.2.12b so that I can finish the last scenario, which requires timers, as well as port it completely to that version of GAE. However, as GAE does STILL not work for me, even after a clean install of vista (around the fourth, I'll install 7 and hope it works for GAE), so I need someone to help me. Firstly, I need someone I can send the files to after I completed them to make sure they work.

That person should know the basics to lau so they can catch any minor errors (I don't expect to have any major errors, hopefully none, but syntax errors are always possible). They also need to properly know the GAE folder structure in case I make a mistake. I'm sure you know the folder structure better than anyone, and even should know at least the basics to lau (probably know a lot more than me, though I haven't seen your lau works).

Will you accept and help me?

Firstly, I have a simple question: What is needed for the 0.2.12b? Can I simply copy the executable into the GAE folder? Or is there anything else needed? Any DLLs that are/aren't needed?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 1 January 2010, 01:21:32
Get Linux, and I can get it functioning for you. :D
BTW, it Lua not Lau.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: hailstone on 1 January 2010, 04:47:03
Take a look at
Code: [Select]
http://glestae.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/glestae/branches/0.2.x/data/game/ . It should have everything you need for Windows, just use the "Download GNU tarball" link if you're missing anything. There shouldn't be any dlls needed unless you are dynamically linking. If you use the binary available at sf it should work. I've tested the installer on Windows 7 and it works.

As long as you have the gae folder it should at least open. Then if you're missing any textures it will tell you.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 1 January 2010, 09:45:18
BTW, it Lua not Lau.
I get this wrong everytime...  :(

@Hailstone, I made careful sure that I had all the media. Even things that were working moments ago simply didn't work after a windows reinstall, despite updating graphics card and all drivers...

BTW, you never answered my question on wether or not you'd help me.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: hailstone on 1 January 2010, 13:06:03
I think I'm doing too much already so no. Hopefully Windows 7 will work.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 1 January 2010, 13:15:27
Windows 7 seems to work perfectly.
Omega, do you use NVIDIA or ATI-AMD.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 1 January 2010, 18:40:04
Toshiba Satellite A210

Graphics Card: ATI Radeon X1200 (832 MB shared memory)
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor (1.8 GHz) (x86 architecture)
RAM: 1918 MB real, 2 GB virtual
HDD: 85 GB free of 180 GB, external HD with 600 GB free of 640 GB
32 Bit Windows Vista operating system

Every other game I've played works flawlessly except this, and I've played a lot of games, including FPS, RTS, RPG, Sims, and many more, both commercial and freeware.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 2 January 2010, 23:32:13
Your computer seems to just be a slightly weaker version of mine, but mine has Intel stuff and runs GAE perfectly, so that may be your problem.

(Toshiba Satellite M305 with Intel Core 2 Duo processor)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 2 January 2010, 23:36:09
No AMD/ATI is the best, you just need to get Win 7 on there, and then it should work fine.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 2 January 2010, 23:54:12
No AMD/ATI is the best, you just need to get Win 7 on there, and then it should work fine.
AMD has compatibility issues, though.  I'm running GAE on a similar computer with the same operating system as Omega, but with different processors, and mine runs flawlessly but his doesn't.  You do the math.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 3 January 2010, 03:01:49
AMD/ATI works fine on my laptop and my Main computer, my other computer has sound issues so we don't play Glest on it.......
I'd suggest that he gets a better AMD/ATI graphics card, and gets Win7, then it should work.
Omega, if you want to know, my laptop has an ATI Radeon HD 3200 graphics card, that works great!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 8 January 2010, 03:53:14
I plan on installing Windows 7 TOMORROW (gotta back up tonight, to be safe) so let's cross our fingers.

** End of OT **
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 8 January 2010, 13:07:38
This isn't OT, it's related to Military.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 9 January 2010, 06:23:08
Ok, I'm installing Windows 7 today. Been at it for five hours, nearly done. I'm also downloading the latest ATI driver from toshiba for window 7 (it mentioned that it would not carry over, along with a few other programs such as iTunes).

@John - Mine USED to run flawlessly, but after I reinstalled vista at one point, it just stopped, and my laptop seems alergic to one of the windows update, so can't use that (and apparently not the first to see that on various computers from various companies).

@Arch - I considered it at least partially OT because it relates to me not getting GAE to work, but not directly military. I guess I'll let you guys know how it goes tomorrow or something when installation is done (after I tweak 7 a bit, I don't like the taskbar having just icons, but I read about how to change it).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 9 January 2010, 06:37:04
You get your ATI drivers from Toshiba, hah, wrong place, might want to check the ATI site, that's the best place to get ATI drivers! :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 9 January 2010, 06:48:58
Nah. Laptops often have modified things (ie: the Biometric scanner NEEDS a custom driver) and to play it safe, I always make sure I have the right models and types to prevent having to do a rollback.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 9 January 2010, 08:28:11
Well, I dunno..........(the mind reading device can take any generic ATI-MIND driver)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 11 January 2010, 02:15:47
W00T! I got it! I got it! Yeah! Windows 7 didn't solve it, but using my ATI Driver for Windows 7 specially from Toshibatm did!

Working high and dry! Of course, this means I gotta get back into finishing up the final release. I gotta learn the new lau syntax and find the folder structure, etc then I can release the final.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 11 January 2010, 21:28:38
lua......... ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 14 January 2010, 01:32:39
lua......... ::)
I hate you.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 14 January 2010, 12:12:59
Quote
I hate you.
Pick a response:
1-Ok........
2-I'd rather you not. :-\
3-Really? :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: bisurge on 20 January 2010, 03:06:59
There's a lot of issues with Windows 7 32-bit vs 64 bit as well as Home (Vista compatibility) vs Professional (XP and Vista compatibility).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 20 January 2010, 03:10:40
There's a lot of issues with Windows 7 32-bit vs 64 bit as well as Home (Vista compatibility) vs Professional (XP and Vista compatibility).
Like what?  ??? Specify.... :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 21 January 2010, 18:20:38
Expected release: 1wk.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 21 January 2010, 20:22:40
Info........
You the Omega, wouldn't give info, but you ask for it all the time.
 :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 21 January 2010, 20:49:53
Someone should make a Alpha  :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 22 January 2010, 18:52:34
What do you mean arch? Wouldn't give info?!? Where, what?

--

@Gabbe: What are you talking about? There's a open Beta available which is fully playable/
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 22 January 2010, 19:00:19
Quote
Expected release: 1wk.

More info... ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 25 January 2010, 20:13:21
LOL. At the time, there was no more info. But now I have some:

-Configurator is now included and works great! It is HEAVILY modified to allow almost all options to be changed, sorted into good catigories (only options not available on that are debug stuff).
-Will use GAE 0.2.13 RC (hopes to upgrade to newer RC or full version soon, as this one cuts the feet for debug texture layer).
-End of Morning part 2 is now complete, and very awesome.

Still to do:
-Add a scenario where we have to fight against the clock (timed scenario).
-Add another type of spy scenario (similar to the beginning of EoM Part 2).
-Fix other end of morning scenarios that may be off due to the fact that Glest now pauses during the dialogue boxes.

Then the last step:
-Distribute to one or two volunteers to test before I publicly release. I can only do minor testing as my computers having that window flashing problem I discussed in Off Topic.

Any volunteers? Arch? Gabbe?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 25 January 2010, 20:54:06
You know, what really needs work is the animations. :-\
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 25 January 2010, 21:28:34
'Cept I lost every blend file in the summer crash. That's why the grenader was so sucky, I lost my templates and was too lazy to make another. I'll consider redoing it if I can fix the blinking window problem I got...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 25 January 2010, 21:46:42
Thing is though you may have lost your blend files, you need to re-rig them anyway, because the rig I saw on the shadow walker(assuming that's the rig you used with military too) was very strange and it's design looks as if it would've been very hard to animate.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 26 January 2010, 16:53:14
Military had a totally different kind of rig. Notice that the arms, etc are all broken into pieces for easy animating? But every bone is individual. Takes a while to animate, but easier and allows more control and less deformation (deformation literally kills my models. I can't bend an arm like a human without it going paper thin!!!)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 26 January 2010, 18:37:52
Doesn't happen to me that much, I would just re-rig.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 26 January 2010, 19:08:39
I hope to remodel the grenadier someday, and MAYBE add a few more units to take advantage of GAE functions, but in the meantime, I cant really model (you know why).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 14 February 2010, 12:23:48
SOrry for the DP, but this was on the second page, so it's necessary. I've finished the latest version, based on the experimental build of 0.2.13. It's not the final, for that I need the finished stabler version of 0.2.13, but it's close. Trying to upload now, but don't expect success. More realistically, I'll probably have to wait until the break is over. Will edit soon to let you know if it uploaded.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 24 February 2010, 04:20:48
So basically Military won't be updated until GAE is updated?  ???
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 24 February 2010, 16:53:17
No! Here's the next version.

http://www.mediafire.com/?0kyw3zmmtmq

However, what I meant is that it isn't the final. It includes TWO glest advanced engine exes, one is the beta, which is the default, and needed for some scenarios, and the other is the last stable version, which doesn't cut off people's feet. Silnarm stated he fixed the 'invisible debug layer cutting off the feet' bug, but has yet to release a new version (to my knowledge).

Enjoy this one. Once GAE hits a (stable) 0.2.13, I will make a custom version of it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 24 February 2010, 23:12:20
Humm... I might be ready to download this now ... BUT ...
I don't really feel like installing it in Widouze just so I can get the good sh*t out and put it into my Linux system... ;D

Soooooo...
1. Do you have a link to just download the data?
2. Is the stable GAE you mention 0.2.12b?
3. Is th UNstable GAE 0.2.13-something_I'm_not_really_aware_of and where can I get the source to compile? :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 25 February 2010, 00:31:52
No! Here's the next version.

http://www.mediafire.com/?0kyw3zmmtmq

However, what I meant is that it isn't the final. It includes TWO glest advanced engine exes, one is the beta, which is the default, and needed for some scenarios, and the other is the last stable version, which doesn't cut off people's feet. Silnarm stated he fixed the 'invisible debug layer cutting off the feet' bug, but has yet to release a new version (to my knowledge).

Enjoy this one. Once GAE hits a (stable) 0.2.13, I will make a custom version of it.
Thanks  :)
but I'll have to test it later...  ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 25 February 2010, 19:08:48
Humm... I might be ready to download this now ... BUT ...
I don't really feel like installing it in Widouze just so I can get the good sh*t out and put it into my Linux system... ;D
Yeah, that'll come when I get the chance online. Stupid internet!
Soooooo...
1. Do you have a link to just download the data?
2. Is the stable GAE you mention 0.2.12b?
3. Is th UNstable GAE 0.2.13-something_I'm_not_really_aware_of and where can I get the source to compile? :P
1. See above.
2. Yes.
3. Experimental version of GAE, posted a while ago. I'd upgrade to the beta of it, but it seems pretty bug filled (only read the posts). When it's fairly stable, I'll use it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 25 February 2010, 23:42:41
Ok, thanks. I'll download the good stuff when its out then. :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 3 March 2010, 04:25:13
No! Download now please so that if I missed any bugs (it's pretty easy to do so with that flickering windows I've been experiencing), lest I have to have more versions later. Besides, this is 100% working (to my knowledge, unless I broke something old, which I doubt). The only real problem is the cutting off of the feet, but it's not even *that* noticable. (only a little. It actually looks kinda neat in the winter tileset).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 5 March 2010, 00:17:31
I downloaded and actually installed it in Linux using Wine (which as you should not is an Windows emulator for Linux, thought WINE is a recursive acronym meaning "Wine Is Not an Emulator"!  ::) ).

Not only was it installed succesfully, I could actually run it from the setup program finsishing dialog! Windows GAE works on Linux!  ;D :o :D

Didn't catch any bug.

But the projectiles' particles could be improved... ;)
Other than that... way cool! ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 5 March 2010, 00:21:30
When I played(months ago) I seem to recall some sort of extremely boxy 3D trapezoid that had wheels, you do know that an army truck looks nothing like that......
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 6 March 2010, 02:41:04
Cool! No bugs so far... :)

Sniping is very powerful...  ::)  :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6B5Iooh3F4
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3015/militaryutub.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6B5Iooh3F4)

Another video showing one of the easy scenarios... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrLaxmOBj9I

Going to test and play more later...  :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 12 March 2010, 16:56:43
Sniping is very powerful...  ::)  :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6B5Iooh3F4
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3015/militaryutub.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6B5Iooh3F4)
Of course, it was meant to be a one-hit kill, but only against infantry units. Best off saving it for the tough ones such as the flame thrower etc. I had so much fun killing my own units just to see the sweet attack.

Glad you liked it. A new version will come eventually, but I gotta get VS 2008 C++ first, and don't know when that will be..
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 12 March 2010, 18:18:34
Ultifd I see you like that music that I used in Magitech-Refit! :D

Omega, seriously.....with the music Ultifd put in Military this mod is all of a sudden much better. 8)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 12 March 2010, 19:48:47
Can I please have the music?  8)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 12 March 2010, 22:14:43
Download Magitech-Refit, for once, please.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 12 March 2010, 23:57:00
Whoa, I didn't know that it was from Magitech refit. I mean I have it but...  ::)  :P
Omega, you included it yourself... I didn't add it...  ::)  :P
Ultifd I see you like that music that I used in Magitech-Refit! :D

Omega, seriously.....with the music Ultifd put in Military this mod is all of a sudden much better. 8)
Yes it is very nice.  :P Wow, Omega doesn't even know he put it there himself... :P
military.ogg is the same as alternative_final_salute.ogg in the refit.
If Archmage says yes, then I guess I could upload the music...it's only around 5 MB...

Of course, it was meant to be a one-hit kill, but only against infantry units. Best off saving it for the tough ones such as the flame thrower etc. I had so much fun killing my own units just to see the sweet attack.
Yeah I know. it justs seems to be too/really powerful, if I had a bunch of special ops and sniped' on something...  :P  :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 13 March 2010, 01:39:40
I really don't care..........psst.....it's not mine.......
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 13 March 2010, 01:46:14
I really don't care..........psst.....it's not mine.......
Ok. lol.  :P

Can I please have the music?  8)
http://www.mediafire.com/?jdggzdgokgg
Done. It's the same as the music you have in Military.  ::)  :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 13 March 2010, 03:00:11
I used it first! ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 16 March 2010, 16:59:10
My bad. It can be overpowered, but doesnt effect buildings, etc. Only infantry. And is hard to spam (would take  alot of clicking).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 20 March 2010, 03:45:27
My bad. It can be overpowered, but doesnt effect buildings, etc. Only infantry. And is hard to spam (would take  alot of clicking).
Probably. But if I had like 5 "Special Ops" and then I produced them a long time ago, and I just select them all, then it would be very powerful  :bomb:  :O  8) .
-----------
Hey Omega, why can I see the base (on the map) of the opponents...this was in a scenario...did you purposely do this or was this a bug?  :confused:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=760YR125-ug
If you look at it, you can see the outline...
I mean for a few second just when I started the scenario, I could see the opponents too...(so there was color). on the map
Also, the whiteish fog of war can be confusing...since...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 21 March 2010, 04:52:06
No, that was purposal. I did that for a LOT of scenarios by having an invisible unit with high site appear with a negative regeneration (so to kill it off in a second). It's point was as a marker, so that we'd know where our destination is. Of course, in the moment before the thing dies, you'll see the opponents, but probably it will die before you will physically notice them.

You notice that a lot in the end of morning scenarios and the like.

Speaking of EoM, did you guys try that (and comments?). There's a lot of scripted scenarios in this pack with lots of potential, so be sure to let me know what you think!  ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 24 March 2010, 06:40:37
I see. I'm still trying out all the scenarios.  :|

Why don't you update your site/website...?  ::)
http://glest.110mb.com/military/

Anyways, I'll test/play more later.  :)  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 24 March 2010, 09:05:15
Yeah, I had a bit of trouble knowing which download link to use myself.
I think you have three different links:
1. The OFFICIAL site's link (it's outdated, it's version 2.2.0)
2. The one on your first post on this topic (I'm not sure what that is, I think this was NOT the one I downloaded).
3. The last link you posted on this page of this thread. This I think was the one I downloaded and is version 2.2.1.

The worse part is: the two places people will look the most for the most recent version (the first post on this thread and SPECIALLY the OFFICIAL site) are outdated. :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 30 March 2010, 16:53:01
Yes, I know... Hmm. Tell you what I'll do it tonight. Maybe. :D Hopefully... :angel:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 30 March 2010, 18:22:46
You better, or I might update the first post on you, the website......well.......d*mn, I can't do it there, but I can do it here, so hurry up and get it done before I do! ;D ;D ;D :O


Joking of course, I'm too lazy to take care of your stuff for you... :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 30 March 2010, 23:28:55
Do you use something like Google Analytics?  ::)  ::)
I'm asking since... I want to know  if anyone actually...  :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 31 March 2010, 03:17:19
Do you use something like Google Analytics?  ::)  ::)
I'm asking since... I want to know  if anyone actually...  :|
Damn. I used google analytics for the site, but only for the main part. I was too lazy to put it on this (along with the elves, romans, etc). Oh well...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 1 April 2010, 22:59:53
Do you use something like Google Analytics?  ::)  ::)
I'm asking since... I want to know  if anyone actually...  :|
Damn. I used google analytics for the site, but only for the main part. I was too lazy to put it on this (along with the elves, romans, etc). Oh well...
I see... heh.  ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 2 April 2010, 03:41:19
Anyway, I'm trying to fix it, but can't get on my bloody site!

*Rolls magic 8 ball*
"Try again later"... :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 2 April 2010, 03:57:32
Anyway, I'm trying to fix it, but can't get on my bloody site!

*Rolls magic 8 ball*
"Try again later"... :(
What do you mean you can't?  :confused: Why?  :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 3 April 2010, 03:11:54
Anyway, I'm trying to fix it, but can't get on my bloody site!

*Rolls magic 8 ball*
"Try again later"... :(
What do you mean you can't?  :confused: Why?  :|
530 Login authentication failed
 :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 3 April 2010, 19:33:17
Anyway, I'm trying to fix it, but can't get on my bloody site!

*Rolls magic 8 ball*
"Try again later"... :(
What do you mean you can't?  :confused: Why?  :|
530 Login authentication failed
 :(

Well... that's unfortunate.  :(
Are you going to update Military now that there is a RC released for GAE?  :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 12 April 2010, 16:49:38
There's an RC? *Goes to check*

Maybe. ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 12 April 2010, 22:10:03
There's an RC? *Goes to check*

Maybe. ;)
Cool.
Change that maybe to a yes, though...  ::)  :O
-------
I was going to see if you updated your site for Military, but it seems to be down...
man, your site is always like that...  :|

Thanks.  :)  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 12 April 2010, 22:16:54
All I really care about is a graphics update, all the scripts don't matter to me, unless good graphics are presented in the scripts. :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 13 April 2010, 00:14:29
Graphics... if he updated the graphics, he might as well update the sounds...  :O  ::)

Oh yeah, update your first post too...  ::)  :O

 :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Fluffy203 on 13 April 2010, 00:17:12
Yea i noticed that the graphics very in detail so i'm guessing that you used pictures or something right?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 13 April 2010, 00:18:52
I'm talking about animation.

Omega, with a proper rig, you'll find animation is a lot of fun. :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 13 April 2010, 01:14:06
The only things that really need to be fixed are animations, sounds, and the Jeep/Humvee/whatever.  I guess Omega can't be completely faulted for the sounds, on account of his hearing (although Ludwig von Beethoven...), but I doubt it would be too hard to get somebody to help.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ElimiNator on 13 April 2010, 03:47:54
I like military mostly becuse of the sounds, They are prety funny.  :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 13 April 2010, 12:05:40
Omega has hearing issues?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ElimiNator on 13 April 2010, 18:02:03
Omega has hearing issues?
He dose? I didn't know that.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 13 April 2010, 19:30:55
If he does, then that is unfortunate.  :|
But uh, there is a more likely chance that he will update Military if he got his new laptop... if he didn't yet...well...  ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 14 April 2010, 17:22:21
Is there gonna be a fighter jet for air to air combat.(sort of like a f22 raptor)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 16 April 2010, 16:58:40
I'm surprised you remembered that John. I mentioned that only once I think long ago.  :thumbup:

I'd love to reanimate, but I lost all the blends and no way I'm going to redo them all... :thumbdown:

I probably will fix the humvee and grenadier, which need whole new models when i get my new laptop.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 16 April 2010, 17:01:36
Maybe the humvee should have a tow missile upgrade against tanks. :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 19 April 2010, 16:41:33
Maybe the humvee should have a tow missile upgrade against tanks. :)
Wassat?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 19 April 2010, 16:51:58
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tow_missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tow_missile)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 21 April 2010, 15:34:30
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tow_missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tow_missile)
Very interesting. Maybe... I'd like to add a heli too. :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 21 April 2010, 15:43:53
Maybe the tank could morph to a self propelled cannon or mobile antiaircraft gun.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 22 April 2010, 03:49:34
Hmm, I don't agree there. The tank was meant to be weak to arial attacks (otherwise it would be over powered). And a self propelled cannon? Not sure what you mean there. However, I don't fancy tanks taking on tanks (unless we are talking about Hunter-Killer tanks, which is a whole different story! :scientist:)

I think that there needs to be another good way to take out tanks than the RPG Trooper and the Stealth Bomber (and the Howitzer if we include defenses). In comes our TOW missle...? :angel:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 22 April 2010, 10:45:22
Quote
I don't fancy tanks taking on tanks

Whether you "fancy" it or not, tanks fought tanks, and a tank should be able to take out another tank.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 22 April 2010, 13:58:53
The self proppeled cannon could either be used for hunting tanks or as mobile long range artillery though that role can be switched for tank with rockets :O
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 22 April 2010, 14:13:27
Why isn't there a flamethrower
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 23 April 2010, 16:50:19
Why isn't there a flamethrower
There is!!!  :O It's produced by the Ops Facility later in the game, after a few upgrades. Very powerful, but slow and vulnerable.

Of course, tanks can be used against eachother, but their slow rate of fire makes it slow and not very smart. RPG troopers or better yet stealth bombers (since tanks can't attack air) are a better choice. Of course, SB are very weak against anti air missles (two of those and down it goes).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 23 April 2010, 16:54:53
Whoops, I just never used it I guess :O :O, did anyone ever think of making a rebel faction to fight the military, they could be lower tech but cheaper. If anyone wants help with this faction count me in and maybe the humvee needs a better model. If theres a helicopter it might be possible to have it build commandos to drop into action ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 25 April 2010, 16:28:09
There could be a sam(surface to air) missile tank
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 28 April 2010, 19:56:37
There could be a sam(surface to air) missile tank
Maybe...

BTW, perhaps I could add a water unit? But I'd need a way to make a dock first. Oh, and more documentation on water unit use... (or is there?)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 28 April 2010, 20:00:30
A water unit would be great!  8) :thumbup:

EDIT: What documentation do you already have on GAE's water units?  :look:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 28 April 2010, 20:10:17
Water units sound great :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 29 April 2010, 16:34:35
Water units sound great :thumbup: :thumbup:
Yes, but I'm still not sure of their capibilities. Can someone (probably silnarm, he programmed it) answer these questions:

Can they attack units in land/air/water as normal?
Is there a proper documentary for this (the XMLs)?
Is there yet a way to make a dock (that must be built at least one tile on land and at least one tile on water?) that can create units ONLY on the water side?
Lastly, what happens if you produce too many units from that dock and the water runs out of room? Never seen this on land and dunno how it would react to the limited water space...

Besides, I need to update the Glest Guide's GAE page for water units, but I'm lacking the know-how... :'(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 29 April 2010, 16:35:22
As I said in a previous post, there should be a rebel faction
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 29 April 2010, 16:54:09
Lastly, what happens if you produce too many units from that dock and the water runs out of room? Never seen this on land and dunno how it would react to the limited water space...
I've seen this on land.
The Dwarf Rhinox pen' cellmap is as follows:
1111
0001
0001
1111
The Outrider it produces is a size 2 unit. Produce two of them to the standard meeting point and you won't have room for the third one to get out.
The first one gets just in front of the opening and blocks it. The second one remains peacefully inside the pen and will actually attack a unit in range (3) from inside the pen!
Get the first outrider away from the pen and the second out of it and you'll be able to see the third one you produced is there, waiting for your orders. ;)
This is easy to see in this building/unit configuration but I would assume it works like this for all configurations. ;)

I have no idea on the rest though.  :look:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 29 April 2010, 18:18:30
Interesting. I still need answers to the other questions though, but I'll assume that applies to water.

As I said in a previous post, there should be a rebel faction
No comment. Nothing immediately planned, but who knows what the future holds? (New laptop!)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 29 April 2010, 18:43:01
Cool ;D ;D :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 29 April 2010, 22:43:10
Oh so you finally got your new laptop? Specs? Price?  ::)  :O
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 29 April 2010, 22:46:33
From what I know...

Can they attack units in land/air/water as normal?
Yes.
Quote
Is there yet a way to make a dock (that must be built at least one tile on land and at least one tile on water?) that can create units ONLY on the water side?
Not yet.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 30 April 2010, 16:46:50
Oh so you finally got your new laptop? Specs? Price?  ::)  :O
Not yet. In the very soon future. Maybe a week or two? I have almost 2k available, so I can get any good laptop. I'll spend at least two days (one to find the laptops I like, then google them at home, then another to buy it :D)

From what I know...

Can they attack units in land/air/water as normal?
Yes.
Quote
Is there yet a way to make a dock (that must be built at least one tile on land and at least one tile on water?) that can create units ONLY on the water side?
Not yet.
Dang. Dock is completely necessary for such things. I guess I'll let the water units wait for a bit. To do once I get new laptop:

-Remodel humvee and grenadeer
-Add helicopter

Ideas:
-Anti air tank?
-TOW missles?

Ideas after water units:
-Drydock
-Battleship
-Submarine
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 30 April 2010, 16:50:53
plan for a destroyer and a PT boat as the PT boat could be a scout while the destroyer could fight submarines.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 30 April 2010, 16:57:17
From what I know...

Can they attack units in land/air/water as normal?
Yes.
Quote
Is there yet a way to make a dock (that must be built at least one tile on land and at least one tile on water?) that can create units ONLY on the water side?
Not yet.
Dang. Dock is completely necessary for such things. I guess I'll let the water units wait for a bit. ine
Well, I think actually the only part that you can't do is force the building location to be apropriate... But I do believe you can make it so it lays half on water and half on ground by giving it the "amphibious" field tag (instead of land, air, shallow water or deep water).
The player will have to be smart enough to not actually build it where there's no water around... And... if there is a large enough pool of water, maybe it might get to be built wholey on water... :look: Maybe better to PM silnarm to look at these postings (he might miss it otherwise)...?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 30 April 2010, 19:40:26
The player will have to be smart enough to not actually build it where there's no water around... And... if there is a large enough pool of water, maybe it might get to be built wholey on water... :look: Maybe better to PM silnarm to look at these postings (he might miss it otherwise)...?
Good idea. GAE should ensure the body of water is at least X tiles before allowing production of production buildings there. Of course, I'd have to release custom water maps with this that have large accessable bodies of water near the bases.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 30 April 2010, 22:29:27
Hmm...water units...were any other actual water units made before...  ::)

Oh so you finally got your new laptop? Specs? Price?  ::)  :O
Not yet. In the very soon future. Maybe a week or two? I have almost 2k available, so I can get any good laptop. I'll spend at least two days (one to find the laptops I like, then google them at home, then another to buy it :D)
Cool, good luck.  :)  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: silnarm on 30 April 2010, 23:36:59
Yes, but I'm still not sure of their capibilities. Can someone (probably silnarm, he programmed it) answer these questions:

Can they attack units in land/air/water as normal?
Is there a proper documentary for this (the XMLs)?
Is there yet a way to make a dock (that must be built at least one tile on land and at least one tile on water?) that can create units ONLY on the water side?
Lastly, what happens if you produce too many units from that dock and the water runs out of room? Never seen this on land and dunno how it would react to the limited water space...
Attacks are as pretty much as per normal, in attack fields the field 'land' is now interpreted as the zone 'surface', so if an attack can target 'land' units, it can target water units too now, and vice versa.

For docks that are both in and out of water, I actually wrote a code to do it, but height-map data is only stored per tile, not cell (one tile = 2*2 cells). So while it worked fine, there was no way to ensure that the parts you wanted over water would actually be over water in the end, as the parts that are over land get 'flattened' and that could effect more cells than we would like to effect. The code was 'thrown away'. I'll think about this one some more, and see if I can think of some way to do it with-out changing the map format...

For placing new units the game currently looks for a free spot the unit can occupy within a given radius of the building, and plonks the new unit there, if no such spot can be found, the command is cancelled and you get the 'Invalid position' message on the console.

Quote
Besides, I need to update the Glest Guide's GAE page for water units, but I'm lacking the know-how... :'(

So much to do, so little time :'(

Good doco is rather important though, will have some new wiki pages for you this weekend some time.

NB: Amphibious just lets a unit move on land or water, can't be used for a dock/shipyard.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 1 May 2010, 02:02:43
Attacks are as pretty much as per normal, in attack fields the field 'land' is now interpreted as the zone 'surface', so if an attack can target 'land' units, it can target water units too now, and vice versa.
Quote
So what are all the new field entries now and their exact syntax? Obviously 'land' and 'air', but is it also 'water' and 'amphibious' in those terms?

I'll think about this one some more, and see if I can think of some way to do it with-out changing the map format...
Good luck, it'd be really handy.

will have some new wiki pages for you this weekend some time.
Yay! :D

Quick question though, can we use a building with JUST the water field to place a building that must be completely in the water, BUT since the worker cannot enter water, would have to be by the edge. Would this work? Or would the worker be unable to do it? I know that normal units can walk in the shallow water, which I assume counts as water the docks could be built in, and then the worker SHOULD be able to access the water field required for the docks... Can you verify?

Another quick question, if a building would be built half on water, half on land (pretending that it was amphibious and the SMART player created it on the border of the two [though in reality amphibious lets them create it on either land or water, not necessarily both]), pretending that the building can produce two different units, one that can only travel land (or surface) and one that can only travel water, can it position these right? I don't plan on making such a building, but it's just a curious question. Glest didn't have to worry about that before and was wondering if that was taken into aspect in the development of water units.

Seeing no other mod TO MY KNOWLEDGE (kinda limited, the mods board is flooding lately, but most of them seem to be proposals and unfinished mods that remind me of a fan-made game site) has water units, I hope to be the first to do so (the same way I was the first completed GAE faction [FPM is unfinished] and was the first to use many of the GAE functions in a mod).

Cheers
Cheers to you too! Was it a Great Western or a Molson Canadian that you wanted? (Canadian beer is better than the american counterparts, come and taste!)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: silnarm on 1 May 2010, 09:03:19
<field value="any_water"/> <!-- Travel on any submerged cell -->
<field value="deep_water"/> <!-- Travel only on deeply submerged cells -->
<field value="amphibious"/> <!-- Travel on any water cell or land -->

For the 'water and workers' issue, land dwellers can go in the shallow water, which should be good enough to get them in position for a shipyard.  If the building needed to be completely in the water that could be a problem, unless your worker unit was a boat of course...

If a building can produce land and water units, they will be placed correctly, yes. When a new unit is produced the game looks for a position as close to the producing unit as possible, based on the new units field, the 'producer' has no direct effect on where units it produces are placed.

There was a 'Naval' scenario by Phoenix a while back, so you wouldn't technically be the first with that one, but it'd still be nice to see the water fields used more extensively :thumbup:

During my time in Canada I actually became rather fond of Molson Ex, do you stock that ?  :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 1 May 2010, 15:55:59
Thanks, that was exactly what I needed. Though I wonder if a unit can walk into the shallows then be able to build a 'any_water' building since it would can reach the location where the builder can stand to build it, even if the building is partly in shallows, partly in deep water. ie:

X=Land
O=Shallows
D=Deep Water
/---\
|   | = Building
\---/


XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OOOO/---\OOOOO
DDDD|DDD|DDDDD
DDDD\---/DDDDD

Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: silnarm on 2 May 2010, 23:53:01
That should be fine, indeed in your example the worker would be able to build from the land cells, they only need to be 'next to' the building ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 3 May 2010, 16:41:15
Awesome. Last (hopefully) question: Would the AI be able to do that too? If there is a building that can be built in water, will they try to do so?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 6 May 2010, 19:10:33
Sorry for the double post, but edits are only good for hot topics, otherwise the post gets missed.

Anyway, I plan on restarting in on saturday night. I've already updated to 0.2.13, and am doing lots of play testing.

So, general opinion, what priorities need to be set? Here's my rough draft:

-Improve models of humvee and grenadeer
-Add Heli
-Add dock
-Add battleship
-Submarine??
-TOW Missle???
-Else???

I doubt I'll improve anims much. Lost all blends.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 6 May 2010, 19:16:38
Uhh, so the glest g3d import doesn`t work... i knew it...

I have a question, now that you`ve got your new lap will the new models be higher quality?

And i think your list is good

Anims fix-negative-sad.... :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 7 May 2010, 01:02:38
G3D import does work.

Omega, I'll help you with the anims. ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 8 May 2010, 20:44:07
In that case, I hope you actually know how to hold a gun. :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 10 May 2010, 16:54:54
Sure thing arch. I don't even have to supply you anything :P because the g3ds and their textures is all I have (I told you I lost EVERYTHING - and why I'm not so hot about linux for the time being). Anyway, you'd be stuck with just barebones mesh, so you'd have to completely rebone it (too bad, I had such nice bone jobs, even if the anims weren't so hot at times). Anyway, here's some of the MASSIVE changes I've made so far (none affecting models, that's last):

-TOTALLY fixed the AI! You see, if the worker unit (the private) has a morph skill, the AI treats them like MAGIC and build buildings at a very slow rate and does minimal production from buildings, even if its cheaper and faster to produce that way than to morph. The only way to fix that was to remove the morphing from the privates COMPLETELY. The machine gun turret is now morphed from the marine and infantry, though I don't like that and will try and tweak the AI in the custom coded release. Anyway, now I made the AI too difficult and even the normal difficulty one beat me (that's what 2 months of no play does to you). Bottom line, better AI. Much better AI...

-Revamped the nuke so that the headquarters can target it, otherwise it doesn't fire unless the foe is within sight, which totally makes it useless. Now the building BLOODY TURNS but its a small price to pay (ok, maybe a medium price, but if you don't pay attention, maybe you won't notice?). On the other hand, lots of tweaking to the nuke to make it usable and worthwhile. Just fire all you got then attack the foe. They won't even know what hit them! One of those will probably kill most of the privates around, either by radiation poisoning or by the blast itself. Oh, and radiation poisoning STACKS. A couple of nukes could whipe a 20 radius circle off the map (of units, its somewhat less effective vs buildings, but still causes a good deal of collateral). The remedy for nukes? Move. To shoot across the map will take an average of 30s-2+min. A large blue target circle appears at the target, so you can't miss it. Of course, the AI doesn't know that... ;D

-Various small changes... Not worth documenting, but for the most part, I spent some time playtesting and balancing things out, including reductions to the humvee and machine gun turret's strength.

->I'm gonna add units with dummy models for the dock and stuff soon to see how it works out and to see if the AI can handle it well. Gonna need some good maps for water... Big lake in the middle with bases around it just bording the lake... I like it! Speaking of maps, it's nice to mention that military has over 70 bundled with it. I download everyone I see and if its playable to a  certain standard, in it goes.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 10 May 2010, 18:42:02
In that case, I hope you actually know how to hold a gun. :P

I've shot quite a few different guns, I know how to hold one. ;)



Quote from: Omega
Sure thing arch. I don't even have to supply you anything Tongue because the g3ds and their textures is all I have (I told you I lost EVERYTHING - and why I'm not so hot about linux for the time being). Anyway, you'd be stuck with just barebones mesh, so you'd have to completely rebone it (too bad, I had such nice bone jobs, even if the anims weren't so hot at times)

You know, it would be nice if you would help me rig the models....... This will take me months, I really hope you'll help.
BTW, I have no clue how to animate the tracks on a tank........

If you want to check the quality of my work, I can upload something. :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 10 May 2010, 18:54:49
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=blender+tank+tracks (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=blender+tank+tracks)

I just couldn`t resist  :O :O
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 10 May 2010, 19:58:24
Thanks, will check it out. :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ElimiNator on 10 May 2010, 20:20:07
Making tank tracks is hard and it uses a huge amount of faces, I know couse I tried it for the grav_tank in moon.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 10 May 2010, 20:56:24
doesn`t matter as long as it looks nice, and now i don`t care any longer for loadfings with my 6 cores rawr!!!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 10 May 2010, 22:38:44
You cant really see the tracks ingame, so why bother. I've shot my share of guns too, but animating them is a whole diff thing.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 11 May 2010, 16:22:54
OK: Results of testing with Water units (contains bug, please read Silnarm!)

-Lua generator placed 'any_water' units perfectly
-Battleships were flawless
-If dock is within 3(ish) cells of water, it produces battleships perfectly in the water.
-MAJOR BUG: Worker cannot build a unit in water because it isn't able to. The land is stated as 'unsuitable' for building (aka: invalid position), despite the fact that it has only one field: 'any_water'.
-ANOTHER MAJOR BUG: Despite having only 'any_water' as a field, the worker can still only build the dock on land (though if its built close to the water (with 3ish cells), it works fine). Lua doesn't ever do this. Must be a bug with building (since buildings are generally only built on land, it may be default? Needs to be fixed).

Dock works fine otherwise, but those two bugs really hinder developement (especially for the AI).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 11 May 2010, 16:42:13
you could add destroyers, pt boats, an A-10, and an f-22
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 11 May 2010, 19:53:42
I don't have time to google, teacher's on my back, but quick comments:

Destroy: Possibility, if subs are added.
Pt Boats: What?
A-10: See prev response.
F-22: Not bad... Maybe, but isnt the stealth bomber a good replacement?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 11 May 2010, 19:55:58
teachers on my back haha :O :O :O

nvm irrelevant, when you have time...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pt+boats (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pt+boats)

you liked it...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: John.d.h on 11 May 2010, 20:02:07
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II)

Love that plane. :-*
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 11 May 2010, 20:03:49
It got a odd look....
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ElimiNator on 11 May 2010, 21:32:00
I think it looks cool.  :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 11 May 2010, 22:50:33
Water units...hmm...  ::) Stable?
Oh yeah could you change the title from
Quote
Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
to something else? Maybe at least cut out the new download part...since it isn't uh...really new,...
And the first post, is still somewhat out dated...website too, but this is not really Omega's faulty I guess  ::)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 12 May 2010, 13:20:50
Quote
I don't have time to google, teacher's on my back, but quick comments:

Destroy: Possibility, if subs are added.
Pt Boats: What?
A-10: See prev response.
F-22: Not bad... Maybe, but isnt the stealth bomber a good replacement?
Stealth bomber should be anti building, f22 for air combat, and the A10 should be against ground equipment but able to fight air to air unlike a helicopter, the helicopter could have some cool stuff like hellfire missiles vs tanks and depth charges against submarines pretty much all anti surface and underwater. The pt boat is a light torpedo boat but is not used in modern times so scratch that, Add a shore defense bunker with the huge 15-16 inch cannon if there's gonna be the navy
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 14 May 2010, 02:25:43
I don't know if I want tooo many air units. Isn't two (stealth bomber + heli) enough? BTW, in a slightly different topic, I realized just how good my particle effect for the aa-launcher is! My cpu-mega foe built 3 close to each other, but if you fly over very fast with a stealth bomber (you stop, you're dead), they will miss, but the tracking value has them turning to try and hit you so they seem to fly out of control in the air and it just looks really good! Take a look at it in a game sometime.

A type of defensive unit for the shore... I like that!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 14 May 2010, 17:02:37
Modern airforces are very diverse Omega and since theres only one faction it can't hurt to expand can it. Ground force expansion could continue with new tank additions like self propelled gun, anti air cannon/missile, infantry combat vehicles(a tank like vehicle meant to support infantry in the attack) air force addition could be an unmanned aircraft launch pad. I got plenty of ideas for shore defenses, and just so you know battleships aren't used in modern times, but if you put it in it could have two mods mobile, when it can move around or deployed torpedo nets, which increases armor but lowers speed. If you need more suggestions feel free to ask ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 14 May 2010, 17:23:36
@ omega
Well... I think I recall you mentioning, when you started Military, you would do one faction well first and then maybe do another one?...  :-\

If you think you're getting too many units for one faction, you could start working on another one with different units...?  :look:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 14 May 2010, 17:24:52
I said there should be a rebel faction
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 15 May 2010, 15:42:20
I dunno... While enticing, an opposite factions means a TON of new units, as well as balance problems.

Battle ships aren't used much in modern times because the age of sea warfare is primarily over. But they aren't DEAD yet.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 15 May 2010, 16:15:33
Well... another faction would solve the possible problem of too many units for one faction... and bring you the much more interesting problem of modelling, texturing, animating, XML'ing the whole thing together... ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 15 May 2010, 17:01:32
sqaud units would go good under this one...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 15 May 2010, 19:29:01
Maybe
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 16 May 2010, 02:56:17
I really don't want TOO many units, and don't really think about multiple factions. BTW, I should mention that just because you/me have mentioned it doesn't make it final. The only new units for sure that will be added in the the heli, dock, and battleship. The rest are on a wait list and may or may not be implimented. Step one, uber awesome military mod, step two: everything else. Baby steps... :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 16 May 2010, 03:02:15
Sounds good, omega.  8)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 16 May 2010, 03:07:08
Sounds good, omega.  8)
I know, right?

BTW, does anyone know if there was a way to stop unit rotation when attacking? I need a way to have an attack command for our nuke attack (which is gorgeously modified, by the way, and now functional! :thumbup:) but a hold position command WILL NOT work for this. Since an attack command needs a move skill that still rotates even with 0 speed, I don't think this can be done... Anyone want to prove me wrong?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 16 May 2010, 14:18:09
Why can't the nuke have a seperate missile silo?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 16 May 2010, 18:04:51
I know, right?
If you say so. :P ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 17 May 2010, 19:26:58
Why can't the nuke have a seperate missile silo?
Hmm... GENIUS!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 18 May 2010, 00:30:28
Thank you, thank you, I accept all applause ;D ;D ;D 8) 8)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: bisurge on 18 May 2010, 00:42:15
Hey.
I haven't checked back in a long time because I can't get the Glest Advanced Edition that can run this mod. How's it going? Do the soldiers still carry and aim their guns awkwardly? :P

As for airplanes, you'd probably want Harriers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrier_Jump_Jet) because they can stop mid-flight (and are capable of vertical takeoff). That and helicopters.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 18 May 2010, 00:54:48
Harriers would be cool but they are usually operated from aircraft carriers, too bad glest doesn't have a carry ability, then you could have the harrier land on a ship to reload, a suggestion for aircraft, unless VTOL, they could circle above the point where they should be standing instead of just hovering in one spot, kinda unrealistic, the harrier could replace the f22 but the A-10 should stay, another aircraft idea, the OV-10 bronco as a scout aircraft with a machine gun for defense, large line of sight, good to pair up with the A-10 for to keep watch of whats ahead.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: jda on 18 May 2010, 13:20:32
Harriers are utterly awesome and absolutelly perfect for Glest!  :thumbup:

@ wyvern
I think the US only uses the navy version of the Harrier but the Brittish RAF (who created it) use both land based and naval based versions of it. The land version was actually the first to be developped, the naval one came later. ;)

And yes, the A-10 is awesome too. ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 18 May 2010, 13:41:29
They probably should replace the f22 considering that even the US stopped manufacturing them, I do believe that only the british navy operates harriers now.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 20 May 2010, 21:25:57
Omega, can i like mod this mod and then have my own military? like use some of your models for my own mod like?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 21 May 2010, 16:26:01
Sure, but don't base it tooo heavily on my mod, otherwise it may as well be a mere update to my mod. You're welcome to use some models/textures/xmls/etc.

Everything I create is under CC-BY-SA-NC
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 21 May 2010, 16:27:38
It`s going to be a ww1 style :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 21 May 2010, 16:36:54
Sure thing, but I have very few units that fit WW1 style. The infantry, maybe... The rest depends on how picky you are at historical accuracy.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 21 May 2010, 16:42:37
Omega's mod does not have much in the way of world war 1, though it could be interesting to see something world war 1 based
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 23 May 2010, 20:26:48
Good progress going on guys! Revamped the nuke so that it has a sweet looking missile and I will move it into a nuclear silo. Also, I finished modelling the Heli and Grenadier. To accompany the heli, I changed the order of the two air upgrades so only one is needed for the heli and the other two are both needed for the stealth bomber. I also modified the attack types so the heli is anti-personal and the stealth bomber is anti-building. The heli is also capible of attacking other air units. Another small fix was the change of the rpg trooper's anti air attack so that it was usable. I accidently put in the wrong ep value and it couldn't be used... :( Fixed now though!  :)

Anyway, work begins on the Humvee now.

PS: The Heli looks UBER awesome!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 23 May 2010, 20:32:56
Can you post a screenshot :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 23 May 2010, 20:34:16
yup screenshot you must post [yoda] may the screenshot software be with you [anakin]
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 26 May 2010, 02:14:44
Not yet wyvern, when its all done I will. For now, I will play the publicy gimic and try to get you anxious.

More changes:
-New model for the Howitzer
-Humvee completed
-Work begun on Missile Silo

Still to do:
-Dock
-Battleship

Saved those for last because it is uncertain if they'll appear in anything more than scenarios for now (since the worker is unable to build the docks, though lua places it fine).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 26 May 2010, 04:46:57
I want to be realistic with you Omega, I don't think I can do much for this mod right now, I've got way to much stuff to do.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 26 May 2010, 13:25:00
:o arch is being realistic! :o!! :P jokeing

Omega, can i use your XML as base for the UK XML?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 26 May 2010, 20:24:52
What could you do anyway? I'm almost done, and there's no denying that redoing the animations would be a royal pain without the blends...

Of course you can Gabbe. Though you're also welcome to look at the Glest Guide's xmls, since I used those as my base for military, and every now and then when I can't remember the exact syntax of something, those outlines are an amazing help.



Good news for everyone, I am almost ready to release!

All thats left to do is model the dock and then do a small bit of testing, then I can release the next version. Still won't be the "final" since GAE's support for water units is too lacking for me to actually put the dock and battleship in normal gameplay yet, I will release a few scenarios so far, but really do want to see water units a part of normal gameplay too, hopefully in the next version of GAE or something... :|

I finished the missile silo now, so using nukes is now a very real possibility (as is opponents using them, but not sure if they'll use them well). I also created two SA-WEET scenarios using timers that I found very fun. One is a king of the hill scenario where you must hold the hill for 10 minutes and the other you must defeat the foe before the 20 minute timer is up. In both, the speed adjusts based on ingame speed. 10 minutes is on normal, each second ticks slower on slower game speeds and faster on faster game speeds.

Both are tested and quite fun!  :D I'll get a screenshot and modify the first page of this thread as well as the glest guide's page (got it working again!).

QUESTION: Do you think we should upload to download.com too? After all, it is fully playable without any external applications (since GAE is included) and that may allow more downloads, and thus more publicy?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: wyvern on 26 May 2010, 20:26:34
Sweet!!! ;D ;D ;DWhat units did you add or change  :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 27 May 2010, 00:46:06
Cool  :)  :thumbup: Kinda fast...at least compared to others...  ::)

Quote
I'll get a screenshot and modify the first page of this thread as well as the glest guide's page (got it working again!).
Sweet.  :) :thumbup:

Quote
QUESTION: Do you think we should upload to download.com too? After all, it is fully playable without any external applications (since GAE is included) and that may allow more downloads, and thus more publicy
later, till megaglest is more fully stable...and till GAE comes out with 3.0...  ::) IMO.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 27 May 2010, 18:21:20
Fast? I guess... I didn't model EVERYTHING, so I can't take credit for that. The heli for an instance, is from UFO:AI. I found some pretty models under CC-BY-SA-NC (same license as mine) and checked with the authors, so all good.

List of changed units:
-Humvee
-Howitzer
-Grenadier
-Missile Silo* <--Epic nukes 8)
-Heli*
-Dock*
-Battleship*

*=New unit
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 27 May 2010, 18:35:10
A while ago I started making a kind of high poly futuristic battlecruiser model. I'm assuming that you already have a battleship model from what I've read, but just in case, I can give you the .blend for the one I half-made, and you can finish it and strip the poly's down. :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 28 May 2010, 00:49:34
Dunno... We'll see how it compares. Of course, mine is a bit high on the poly side too (I tried reducing it further, but it lost the battleship feeling...) at 2k. Not bad at all in my opinion.

I should mention in case silnarm is watching the 'bug' I've found with water units. The select (and that green circle showing hp, etc) is at the very bottom of the water, not on the surface where the unit is.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 28 May 2010, 01:10:07
Can I have the original high-poly model you have, to see if I can help bring the poly count down? :)

My Mom's boyfriend is an expert on navy stuff.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: ultifd on 28 May 2010, 07:38:31
I still think it is fast...even though not everything is made by you...still basically fast  ::)
Cool.  :)
So your site is OK again? You can update it...right?  ::)  :O
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 28 May 2010, 15:21:42
Can I have the original high-poly model you have, to see if I can help bring the poly count down? :)
Sure, but I'm just going to release the entire mod. It's ready, but I can't upload until probably monday (back to school).

I still think it is fast...even though not everything is made by you...still basically fast  ::)
Cool.  :)
So your site is OK again? You can update it...right?  ::)  :O
2 weeks of skillz. You aren't talking to an amateur. :O And yeah, the site is working, so I'll update it when I release.

My Mom's boyfriend is an expert on navy stuff.
Mom's boyfriend? So I take it she's either divorced or you're a literal bastard. :O
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 28 May 2010, 16:45:37
Divorced.

Haven't you heard me talking about my Dad? ;D



Quote from: Omega
Quote from: -Archmage- on May 27, 2010, 22:14:55
Can I have the original high-poly model you have, to see if I can help bring the poly count down? Smile
Sure, but I'm just going to release the entire mod. It's ready, but I can't upload until probably monday (back to school).

Also, I offered elsewhere on the forums to animate a few of the new units. :D

Can you pack me a 7z with those .blends, and then I'll animate them, and send them back?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 28 May 2010, 16:52:10
Divorced.

Haven't you heard me talking about my Dad? ;D
Ah, yes, but it didn't occur that it was divorced. My applogies.

Also, I offered elsewhere on the forums to animate a few of the new units. :D

Can you pack me a 7z with those .blends, and then I'll animate them, and send them back?
Wasn't that here? Anyway, there's not a whole lot, but I do have the grenadier, baton soldier, and perhaps a few others. Some don't need to be animated, like the howitzer or battleship, and others I animated very well (like the Heli. Simple, but epic and effective).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: -Archmage- on 28 May 2010, 19:30:44
Why wouldn't you animate a Howitzer, I mean, it's gotta have a firing anim at least. ::)

The Battleship needs animations too, firing and standing(or rather sitting.....).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 28 May 2010, 19:50:02
Hmm, not really. When I release on monday, you'll see what I mean. Of course, you can comment then too... ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Omega on 31 May 2010, 16:36:38
Alright, I can't say much, Teacher's on my back,  but heres the latest download. I compiled this on the fly, so I'll have to do the site and the first post tonight when I get home from the city...

Installer:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/mlcq9g

TGZ:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/4rvo2f

Sorry for the bad site, I can't get onto mediafire or many sites like that. First 5 google results were blocked! Still, my test shows that this one went quite fast, and it didn't need an account... :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 31 May 2010, 17:04:50
again..lol...teachers on your back! omg lol that can be misunderstood...
I`ll download..now..
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Download!
Post by: Gabbe on 31 May 2010, 17:05:42
wtf i need to complete a survey...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- NEW DOWNLOAD AVAILABLE!
Post by: -Archmage- on 31 May 2010, 20:15:54
Omega: I added the downloads to your first post for you. :)

Gabbe: Download works fine for me......
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- NEW DOWNLOAD AVAILABLE!
Post by: ultifd on 31 May 2010, 21:01:21
Cool  :)
Yeah, works for me... try again...gabbe.
Thanks,
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- NEW DOWNLOAD AVAILABLE!
Post by: Gabbe on 31 May 2010, 21:08:50
omg i was clicking the wrong sign :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- NEW DOWNLOAD AVAILABLE!
Post by: John.d.h on 31 May 2010, 22:27:34
A new military release on Memorial Day.  How fitting.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- NEW DOWNLOAD AVAILABLE!
Post by: ultifd on 1 June 2010, 01:21:36
Well, it doesn't really count, since Omega doesn't live in the US...right...anyways, yeah...  ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- NEW DOWNLOAD AVAILABLE!
Post by: Omega on 1 June 2010, 02:51:35
It's memorial day?

*Looks at Calendar* Well, its Canadian Environmental Week, but nothing about Memorial day. Of course, I suppose it is American...

*Google's Memorial Day* Hmm, last monday of may... I guess it is Memorial day. Oh the irony... :D

Anyway, I'm doing the site now and will get to the first post in a few minutes.

//Edit, done site, uploading now.

//Edit, site uploaded, first post massively updated. Mission accomplished.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 1 June 2010, 04:50:24
 ::)
------
Wow, finally...grats!  :) looks great  :thumbup:
I'll test Military tomorrow.  :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Gabbe on 1 June 2010, 17:13:41
Maybe you also should release justa patch...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 1 June 2010, 19:13:00
A patch? I don't know... Its a very big change and I didn't even keep track of every file. However, the file is a mere 31MB, quite small for a full game.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Gabbe on 1 June 2010, 19:15:45
idk but a ingame patch...to click "check for update" tab...and then auto patch...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 1 June 2010, 19:33:36
idk but a ingame patch...to click "check for update" tab...and then auto patch...
I assumed you meant like a download to simply copy over. However, I didn't keep enough track of information to do that well. Sorry. As for your method, it would be awesome, but a little difficult and not all that needed since eventually, this is going to be 100% complete.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: John.d.h on 1 June 2010, 19:35:13
idk but a ingame patch...to click "check for update" tab...and then auto patch...
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/glestae/ticket/101 (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/glestae/ticket/101)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Gabbe on 1 June 2010, 22:45:51
awesom!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 3 June 2010, 01:07:44
Hmm...I think you need to edit the font size, as it overlaps in the game setup and the about screen(no models also)
but this is minor.  :)
What's glestadv_DE?  :|
Also, the configurator doesn't work, as it requires the xceres.dll.
(that's what is said)
Although I don't think anyone uses it too much, I  was just lazy...  ::)
Well, I guess I'll test this later...I need to test MG.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 3 June 2010, 16:22:12
Hmm...I think you need to edit the font size, as it overlaps in the game setup and the about screen(no models also)
but this is minor.  :)
What's glestadv_DE?  :|
Also, the configurator doesn't work, as it requires the xceres.dll.
(that's what is said)
Although I don't think anyone uses it too much, I  was just lazy...  ::)
Well, I guess I'll test this later...I need to test MG.

Yeah, the text overlaps the buttons in the where it has to display "affirmative" because they are in set positions. I plan on eventually releasing a custom edition, but there's still a few bugs with water units that need to be fixed first.

Glestadv_DE is the debug edition. Currently it serves only as a "cheat enabled" version for you guys (with an unfortunately long console). Ie: type "~cheat1(0)" to give player 0 10 free privates. I plan to impliment a cheat mode in the custom release when I get around to it.

As for the configurator, that's my fault. GAE doesn't use Xceres anymore so I removed it, but forgot that the configurator still uses it... :thumbdown: Will have to include in the next version.

Thank you for your feedback.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Little Helper on 10 June 2010, 06:26:10
Nice faction I am loving it played it around 17 times! Destroyed tech with it!  :P :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 10 June 2010, 12:43:12
Omega, you should rename the battleship to a cruiser or destroyer since it really isn't large enough to be a battleship
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 10 June 2010, 21:17:25
I should have posted this earlier but have Omega, have you considered re doing the anti air rocket launchers, they look like chimneys
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 11 June 2010, 01:55:32
I see.
I can't wait for new GAE, with Military, even more awesomeness!  :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 15 June 2010, 00:40:59
I should have posted this earlier but have Omega, have you considered re doing the anti air rocket launchers, they look like chimneys
Hmm, that's true. What should they look like? Can I see an example?

Omega, you should rename the battleship to a cruiser or destroyer since it really isn't large enough to be a battleship
Wait a second... you hacked my baby so you could use the battleship? Perhaps its a bit small, but destroyers aren't commonly used these days and the ship is more like a battleship (obviously its not anti-sub).

I too, cannot wait for the bug fixes in the next version of GAE so we can see water units a part of normal play!

Nice faction I am loving it played it around 17 times! Destroyed tech with it!  :P :P
Tech? TECH?!  :o
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 15 June 2010, 00:47:47
I should have posted this earlier but have Omega, have you considered re doing the anti air rocket launchers, they look like chimneys
Hmm, that's true. What should they look like? Can I see an example?

Omega, you should rename the battleship to a cruiser or destroyer since it really isn't large enough to be a battleship
Wait a second... you hacked my baby so you could use the battleship? Perhaps its a bit small, but destroyers aren't commonly used these days and the ship is more like a battleship (obviously its not anti-sub).

I too, cannot wait for the bug fixes in the next version of GAE so we can see water units a part of normal play!

Nice faction I am loving it played it around 17 times! Destroyed tech with it!  :P :P
Tech? TECH?!  :o
Omega if I make a rocket launcher model will you use it and no I didn't hack it, I did something known as g3d viewer :P :P, destroyers and cruisers are whats used now, NOT battleships, just so you know, two cannons, and some rocket pods is destroyer, cruiser, or frigate equipment all it lacks is depth charges :P :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 15 June 2010, 01:03:00
Heres a quick SAM missile site I made, I hope this is what it will look like later on.
http://www.filefront.com/16752465/aamissile%20launcher.blend
is it okay if I add it to my model dump ;D ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 15 June 2010, 02:10:08
Whatever... I'll consider renaming it if you can support that statement [Reference needed].
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikipedian_protester.png)

I guess I'll use the model. Its your model, so of course you can add it to your model dump, though I have to texture this, so if you want, I'll send you the blend with a texture once I've done that.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 15 June 2010, 02:13:21
Whatever... I'll consider renaming it if you can support that statement [Reference needed].
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikipedian_protester.png)

I guess I'll use the model. Its your model, so of course you can add it to your model dump, though I have to texture this, so if you want, I'll send you the blend with a texture once I've done that.
I'll find some support for it, and thanks for offering to send the textured SAM launcher, if you send it I'll give you half the credit at least,
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 15 June 2010, 02:18:10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battleship
the first paragraph says so, later it says battleships were last used for fire support 20 years ago which especially since this is supposed to be in the future they won't be in service, if it was more recent I'd agree but its too old for a future based mod :| :|, battleships are too vulnerable, in the falkland war they sank one with a couple of rockets ::) ::), still its your mod and its up to you
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 15 June 2010, 18:44:12
Interesting. I'll rename it I guess.

Don't expect a texture for a while though. Sooo busy with sooo much (looking for solutions to Kukacs problem, final exams, military, I wanna animate a glestimal, IP webpage, etc;).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 16 June 2010, 00:50:52
Interesting. I'll rename it I guess.

Don't expect a texture for a while though. Sooo busy with sooo much (looking for solutions to Kukacs problem, final exams, military, I wanna animate a glestimal, IP webpage, etc;).
It doesn't matter I have tons of summer and glest work so :( :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 16 June 2010, 16:31:21
Well.... converted to GAE 0.2.13a.

Results:
Water units: epic
AI using water units: fail

(In mundane terms, the AI cannot build the dock, but can use the dock if supplied. Oh well, at least the humans can build the dock. The rest we'll fake in scenarios. For now, water units are a part of normal gameplay =).

Possible solutions to AI problem:
-Make dock a default unit (you start with it), though you can't produce a destroyer until you reach the same req for building a dock (plus the navy upgrade).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Gabbe on 16 June 2010, 16:40:19
transporting have been mentioned in GAE forum topic, i suggest to you for watching it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 16 June 2010, 16:45:50
carrying would be great for our ww1 mod too with the seaplane tenders and aircraft carriers, by the way omega, if you want I have an apc/ifv vehicle in my model dump if you want it ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 16 June 2010, 16:47:59
Quote
Well.... converted to GAE 0.2.13a.

Results:
Water units: epic
AI using water units: fail

(In mundane terms, the AI cannot build the dock, but can use the dock if supplied. Oh well, at least the humans can build the dock. The rest we'll fake in scenarios. For now, water units are a part of normal gameplay =).

Possible solutions to AI problem:
-Make dock a default unit (you start with it), though you can't produce a destroyer until you reach the same req for building a dock (plus the navy upgrade).

Nice.

Have you seen the topic on basic transport units?
I was thinking you could have VTOLs and stuff.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 16 June 2010, 16:57:05
Will look tonight! Sooo want those!  :D :D :D

In other words, I'm making a military video, and I don't mean an in-game video of glest. The best way to compare it is to imagine Civilization 4. It has that starting movie that isn't a movie of gameplay, or even in the perspective or graphical detail of normal gameplay. What I have in mind is a beautiful intro video that I'd like to implement into a future version (possibly a separate version though, because it would be an automatic minimum of 10mb added to the filesize, which, as far as glest mods go, is huge. And I'd expect closer to 30ish mb anyway).

Anyone know a good way to create a realistic looking explosion in blender? Best idea I have yet is a sprite based billboard using a sequence.

There's also a water scene. Take a look at this below and tell me that isn't beautiful!
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6585/84064568.jpg)
Of course, I can't take credit for it. It's from a tutorial. Still, now imagine my destroyer in that (too bad the destroyer's quality can't come close to that. Fortunately, I can add shaders and displacement to the destroyer, since poly count, etc are no problems there. And yes, that water's animated, and its not even a fluid simulation (in love with it).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 17 June 2010, 10:41:15
Very nice! I don't get along with particles all that well, I need to take a bunch of tutorials. :P

Are you going to have a combat scene, with people shooting and stuff?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 17 June 2010, 16:33:40
Very nice! I don't get along with particles all that well, I need to take a bunch of tutorials. :P

Are you going to have a combat scene, with people shooting and stuff?
Of course. How could I not? That explains the whole game in sum! :O

I'll give you a few spoilers on the scenes (theres more than I mention though, and none of the scenes are done yet. This may take a bit of time, creeping slowly with finals week).
-It starts with a scene of helis and stealth bombers ambushing an enemy, flying up after bombing the foe's camp. In the sky, the text "Omega presents" fades in. You can expect to see the military logo in the next scene.
-Another scene involves tanks and stuff duking it out in a battle.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 17 June 2010, 17:55:58
Want help with Humanoid animations.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 17 June 2010, 19:07:01
No. All looks very good so far. Why they don't in Glest? Because I used WAY too little frames. Viva la small file size :O.

Here, my animations run at 25fps and are incredibly smooth! I am also utilizing the IPO window a lot, especially for repetivite animations like walking or the spin of the heli blades.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 17 June 2010, 20:01:22
Ok, can I proof-watch the video first? ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 18 June 2010, 01:25:10
... Maybe.

Don't expect it for a while. I'm still on the very first scene, and will have to look at particles a bit more so I can get the smoke coming out of the stealth bombers in the opening scene. I'm going for a high degree of quality here, since I don't have to worry about fickle poly counts any more (what a beautiful weight off my shoulders! 100k+ poly counts, here I come!).

Anyway, concerning the actual military, here's changes that will make the next release:
-Revamped ALL voice sounds. Now its manly, consistent voices all in lines that compare to something you would hear in a military situation (minus the female computer voice warning of a nuclear launch :)).
-Water units are now normal units
-A few water unit scenarios
-Scripted naval battle to put your ability to adapt to those new water units to the extreme test
-New model by wyvern for the AA Launcher
-A new upgrade to give your water units more strength later in the game
-A few minor bug fixes
-Battle ship renamed destroyer
-Fixed icons for the dock and destroyer
-A number of new maps made specially to allow water units to be able to play well (ie: the lake map has a large lake, with the four factions bordering it)
-Upgraded to GAE 0.2.13a
-Off-screen attack notification and a (cool) new sound to accompany it.
-Xceres dll included so configurator works

Did I miss anything that should be in the next version?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Gabbe on 18 June 2010, 13:07:46
you should take a look at blender 2.5 smoke sim.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 18 June 2010, 14:11:31
you  could have a marine landing craft it would deploy marines on an ep basis
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 18 June 2010, 22:20:12
you should take a look at blender 2.5 smoke sim.
Hmm, perhaps I need to update my blender... I'm still on 2.49 :|

you  could have a marine landing craft it would deploy marines on an ep basis
That could make for an interesting unit, but I'd prefer a carrying unit (in the future, once hailstone impliments them) that can carry our marines. Besides, creating units with EP is currently VERY BAD. Rather than using a big chunk of EP to start producing a unit, it instead uses the much EP every second while producing the unit (so if a unit takes a minute to produce, and ep cost is set to 5, you'll need about 300 EP to produce the unit). If you run out of EP in the middle of production, it's canceled and the EP is not refunded. I don't think either the player nor the AI can handle this.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 19 June 2010, 00:28:33
you should take a look at blender 2.5 smoke sim.
Hmm, perhaps I need to update my blender... I'm still on 2.49 :|

you  could have a marine landing craft it would deploy marines on an ep basis
That could make for an interesting unit, but I'd prefer a carrying unit (in the future, once hailstone impliments them) that can carry our marines. Besides, creating units with EP is currently VERY BAD. Rather than using a big chunk of EP to start producing a unit, it instead uses the much EP every second while producing the unit (so if a unit takes a minute to produce, and ep cost is set to 5, you'll need about 300 EP to produce the unit). If you run out of EP in the middle of production, it's canceled and the EP is not refunded. I don't think either the player nor the AI can handle this.
true but the unit could be produced in one second, and instead of the infantryman to marine it could be infantryman to some other unit green beret or something
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 20 June 2010, 21:52:12
I'm still not really sure about a moving production unit that can instantly produce units.



In other words, the FIRST part of the video is done (roughly 1/3?). At 24 seconds long, this is just a LOW QUALITY, LOW RES export from blender without sounds, post-production video effects, etc; Still, take a look at it below. Bear in mind it doesn't necessarily reflect the finished product.

http://www.filefront.com/16812643/part1.avi
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Gabbe on 20 June 2010, 22:55:57
part2?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 20 June 2010, 23:49:16
Hmm, looks cool, can't wait for next part(s)... or are you going to upload "perfected" part 1 first?  :| Probably not...
Awesome.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 21 June 2010, 16:29:12
Perfect part? Do you mean high quality with sound, etc? I'm only putting in sound after I go all 3(?) parts.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 21 June 2010, 16:43:39
There should be a campaign for military.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 21 June 2010, 16:47:24
Like a set of scenarios? There is.... :P

Change the scenarios catigory to "End of Morning".

There's also a catigory for expert scenarios, tutorials, and standard scenarios.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 21 June 2010, 16:49:29
Like a set of scenarios? There is.... :P

Change the scenarios catigory to "End of Morning".

There's also a catigory for expert scenarios, tutorials, and standard scenarios.
Ok cool 8) 8)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 21 June 2010, 17:37:13
I watched the video, here are the problems that I've spotted:

-Helicopter looks to fat in the back(maybe it's meant to be like this, like a different or made up heli model type)
-Planes look totally unrealistic.
-The animation for the guy dying looks like he's falling in slow motion.
-The trees don't look all that realistic.
-Shadows on the water.
-Waters way too bright.
-Buildings have too few faces.
-The sun doesn't look very round.
-The planes shadow seems to disappear between 00:02 and 00:03 seconds, when the planes fly onward off the screen via the top edge of the screen.
-The helpcopters blades are way way way way way too slow.
-This is more a recommendation then a problem, but you may want to add effects in the water when the helicopter goes over the river.

Other than those, I think it's pretty good.

I would gladly offer to assist in fixing some of these issues, but I know you're going to say no. :P

No offense, I just want to be thorough and help ensure that the final product is top quality. :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 21 June 2010, 17:37:51
Perfect part? Do you mean high quality with sound, etc? I'm only putting in sound after I go all 3(?) parts.
I see.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 21 June 2010, 18:54:17
I watched the video, here are the problems that I've spotted:

-Helicopter looks to fat in the back(maybe it's meant to be like this, like a different or made up heli model type)
-Planes look totally unrealistic.
-The animation for the guy dying looks like he's falling in slow motion.
-The trees don't look all that realistic.
-Shadows on the water.
-Waters way too bright.
-Buildings have too few faces.
-The sun doesn't look very round.
-The planes shadow seems to disappear between 00:02 and 00:03 seconds, when the planes fly onward off the screen via the top edge of the screen.
-The helpcopters blades are way way way way way too slow.
-This is more a recommendation then a problem, but you may want to add effects in the water when the helicopter goes over the river.

Other than those, I think it's pretty good.

I would gladly offer to assist in fixing some of these issues, but I know you're going to say no. :P

No offense, I just want to be thorough and help ensure that the final product is top quality. :)
**** you! No!
The heli is the exact same as in the game, Water is supposed to have shadows, water does have transparency and mirror effects, Sun is a skybox and you are watching it in very low quality (super pixilated), Buildings are fine, Death animation is fine, trees are fine, heli blades are a bit slow, but so what.

Nah, you're being way to fussy. I do not expect a Civilization 4 opening video. I don't expect even close to that. But hey, at least wait till you see the water effects and rain particles in part 2! :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 21 June 2010, 19:04:50
nice movie it could use effects on the water though and the airplanes could use improvement, heres something that would look nice I think, three bombers instead of two, you see a radar screen after the bombers close near the heli, the radar screen sees the helicopter coming but doesn't see the stealth bombers, a guy just standing around waiting for the heli, then he sees the bombers coming, he spins around, and a rocket launcher could fire at the airplanes one airplane crashes but the other two keep going and bomb the building.

I don't know if this is a good idea, or even possible but still and idea, other then that I linked the movie :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 21 June 2010, 19:25:00
I'm not being fussy, I'm being thorough.

You can really improve that section of video, the fact that you refuse too, and get angry with me, is very lazy of you, and shows that it aggravates you, which means I'm probably right, and you are lazy. :|



Quote
**** you! No!

Why are you acting like such a bitch? John wants to be told about problems and issues with his Sun and Moon material, and he understands that I mean no offense, and that I post the stuff to make him aware of problems I see, that maybe he doesn't see, so that he can fix them.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ElimiNator on 21 June 2010, 19:37:59
Wow! the vid looks cool! did you make it in glest? It looks that way other the the 2 bombers.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 21 June 2010, 19:44:44
Wow! the vid looks cool! did you make it in glest? It looks that way other the the 2 bombers.
I agree, and will be better, reminded me of the "background g3d" in Military...  ::)  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 22 June 2010, 02:58:30
Ok, sorry arch, I think you misunderstood me, which is my fault. The internet really needs a sarcasm sign... :P

Basically, I don't agree with all your changes. I know of no way to make, say, ripples in the water from the heli that would look natural (and besides, then I'd have to use more complex fluids which would slow down the already 3 (THREE!!!) hour rendering time (stupid raytracing). The plane's shadows are supposed to disappear because the plane is really just outside of the view of the camera waiting for the scene where it bombs the buildings. Some of the other suggestions are really how it was meant to be or simply because of the low quality of the render (the high quality version is 100mb...).

I got nothing against you pointing out information, and thank you for that. I simply of course, do not wish for help because as I stated before, part of the reason I want to do this is to test my skills and learn more stuff. And I've never seen you use particles or physics anyway... :P 8)4

Sorry if I came across as rude. That was unintended. :angel:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 26 June 2010, 01:35:01
Allright, take a look at the new particles for the Nuke!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g9yun9PwSc
(Quality is very bad at time of posting. Message at top says that it is "still be processed" and "may be better once finished")

I'm fixing up a lot of the animations, as well as adding some variations to the destination point (a very nice GAE only particle proj effect).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ElimiNator on 26 June 2010, 01:44:20
To tell the truth, I think its a bit unfair...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 26 June 2010, 02:24:43
Quote from: Me on YouTube.
Cool, although...more like a rocket? I don't know we'll see...
of course, the impact is as much as it would be I guess...but you really want this in Military? Kinda unfair, and would ruin the game, I imagine...
Quality: not that bad but...maybe still processing? :-/

Yeah...still cool.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 26 June 2010, 05:10:10
To tell the truth, I think its a bit unfair...
Nah, it's all balanced out by testing. Radiation poisoning is done over such slow time that it is easily remedied by a medic. The nuke isn't strong enough to kill any units at all, though if there are no medics, the private can be killed by the radiation poisoning. Interestingly, in an average game, it would take about 10 nukes launched at the same time to completely wipe out the headquarters, assuming the opponent does NOT have wartime negotations, which would nearly double its survival. And buildings aren't affect by the radiation, of course. Despite its large radius, it gets extremely weak further away, and the radiation poisoning gets weaker the further from the center the unit is.

However radiation poisoning reduces units speed and ability to harvest, making them ripe for attacking (but the attack takes over a minute to hit the foe on a 128x128 map, so timing needs to be careful not to hit your own units!).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 30 June 2010, 01:06:08
By the way, from Ultifd's youtube video, I noticed that at least one person has tileset problems. The ground was pretty much one color! :o

Anyone else suffering from this?



On the darker side of the digital world, part 2 of the video is complete. Took 4 hours to render the 10 second clip, the largest I've ever seen, so I'll just post a still screen for now... :P

(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7273/captureit.jpg)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 30 June 2010, 01:37:25
Looks awesome, now  if I could just press "play"...  ::) 4 hours? hmm...
Quote
By the way, from Ultifd's youtube video, I noticed that at least one person has tileset problems. The ground was pretty much one color!  :o

Anyone else suffering from this?
No, I believe it was a old problem with GAE or so, anyways, I checked, the tileset is fine now...that was weird though, and I asked you before when I made the video...I guess you did not even see it...oh well, it is OK now...I think. (I checked...)
Do you want me to remove them or something?  :| (the vids with the blue tileset.)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 1 July 2010, 00:11:50
No, I believe it was a old problem with GAE or so, anyways, I checked, the tileset is fine now...that was weird though, and I asked you before when I made the video...I guess you did not even see it...oh well, it is OK now...I think. (I checked...)
Do you want me to remove them or something?  :| (the vids with the blue tileset.)
Oh dear, I must have missed that sorry... Odd though, since this includes its own compatible version of GAE. Still, no need to remove the videos because it doesn't really affect the video content. All up to you of course! :D

Why rendering took 4 hours:
-Sub Surface Scattering
-Ray Tracing Shadows
-Ray Reflections
-Ray mirrors
-Particle effects
-Displacement effects
-Fog
-20,000 rain models :P
-8x Anti Aliasing
-720x480 resolution at 100% quality in JPG AVI (My prefered video format, since it gets the best quality, compatibility, and file size.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ElimiNator on 1 July 2010, 16:01:00
How and in what did you make the sky and water? Will you post the vid?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 1 July 2010, 17:36:32
I see, I understand now...  :thumbup:
Hmm...hopefully when GAE 0.3 comes out you are going to update Military to it too right?  :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 1 July 2010, 21:28:10
I see, I understand now...  :thumbup:
Hmm...hopefully when GAE 0.3 comes out you are going to update Military to it too right?  :|
You betcha!

How and in what did you make the sky and water? Will you post the vid?
It's all blender. The water is made with a displacement method, which allows it to be animated by moving empties around. There is no sky, it is just mist. The water uses shaders for the most part for its texture, but uses the node window to combine all of these into a water texture.

I will probably not post the individual video for this one, but I hope to finish the third (and final) part soon, so I can upload the entire thing. Progress on part 3 is going good. I got the ground and its texture, the mist, and a snow particle system ready, plus got a tank in and got it all lightened up. I learned how to use lighting groups for the first time, which is very handy so I can carefully light one object without messing up the lighting of another! :thumbup:

Current screen:
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2634/capturefbd.jpg)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 2 July 2010, 01:06:06
I can't wait for it to be done, it looks cool :) :) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ElimiNator on 2 July 2010, 04:56:53
What do you mean by empties? and do the waves go through the boat?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 2 July 2010, 14:33:30
Omega this is a question I have about the future release, will the tank be able to use its turret mg against aircraft :confused: :confused:, cuz it should, after all thats what modern tanks have it for, second of all a suggestion for the stealth bomber, since it can't really hover in reality maybe while standing it could circle around just as a standing animation :| :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ElimiNator on 2 July 2010, 17:14:38
You could make the tank morph to make its barell pointing up and morph back again.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 2 July 2010, 19:11:49
Tanks don't really have the ability to use their main gun against aircraft, I made a decent antiaircraft tank model in mine, Gabbes and little helpers model dump :) :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 3 July 2010, 20:56:27
What do you mean by empties? and do the waves go through the boat?
Yes, it is just a mesh, NOT fluid simulation, which is too much of a pain for oceans, and takes too long to make.

Video's nearly done. Can expect me to upload soon... I'll also upload the blend files for you to see how it was done.

And no, don't expect to see the tank shooting aircraft from the sky, because that's not really how it was intended. The tank is a powerful behemoth on land, but is very vulnerable to aircraft.

Biggest problem with a moving plane is that the limitations of the glest engine would make it look horrid. When attacking, it wouldn't finish it's still/moving animation and would go straight to attacking animation, which looks very bad as a transition, not to mention another problem is the unit size. If we have it circle around, it would have to be a bigger unit size, or it would fly through all things around it. And a bigger size would make it harder to fit units on the screen, while it would also make selection harder... So for now, just remember it's the future, with its awesome hover abilities! ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 3 July 2010, 23:54:45
The machine gun on the turret is for anti air purposes so the tank should be able to fight aircraft, though quite innefectively, you can always use my aa tank model
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: John.d.h on 4 July 2010, 01:17:03
I'd always thought the machine gun was for anti-personnel. :look:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 4 July 2010, 01:23:00
The machine guns built in to the tank are for anti personnel, the machine gun mount on the top is for anti-personnel and anti-air. ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 4 July 2010, 20:52:18
The machine guns built in to the tank are for anti personnel, the machine gun mount on the top is for anti-personnel and anti-air. ;)
very true :) :), believe it or not but the mmachine gun on the top can be quite useful ;) ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 4 July 2010, 23:02:05
Moving on... And I announce, it is here! Behold my invention! World domination: step 1, complete.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV5TNwUz8E4
I apologize for lackluster quality (the 20MB video was as HQ as I would go...)

Also, for those who wish to see how it was done, I release the media used to create it. At nearly 10MB, this is just the blends, texture, and vf used to create the movie. You'd still have to render the blends (total time: roughly 10 hours) if you wanted to build the final video. The final video was over a hundred MB, so that was reduced and codec'd with Xvid and MP3 audio to give a very good quality video for only 20MB.
Download the files here (http://www.filefront.com/16963175/military_trailer.7z)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 4 July 2010, 23:41:17
Great movie but sadly, :( :( short, I'd like it even more if it was longer, second of all I'm not sure if there should be any voices, I think it should be just animations...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 5 July 2010, 00:12:00
Yes, short, I'm afraid. Yet, its roughly a week and a half of hard work... As for voices, I dunno, why not?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: wyvern on 5 July 2010, 01:43:47
I don't think it fits in the one scene where the soldier shouts "enemies" I think he should just point in shock ;) ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 5 July 2010, 06:58:14
Looks cool, but the "parting difference" (transitions from the parts, mainly part 1 to 2) kinda sudden for me...was kinda big...pretty good quality and trailer for the amount of work done on it though, so nice.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 5 July 2010, 07:02:17
I think it's awfully unfair that this mod gets stickied and some other better(no offense dude, but ChupaReaper's leaving you in his dust) mods are left to fend for themselves in survival of the hottest topic.

[I'm sticking it for a while, since he just made a new release. --JDH]
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 5 July 2010, 07:08:01
Well, Arch...that also relates to the problems of the stickies...if we are talking like that, I guess. soon, we might even have a full page of stickies...  :| (If not now, later... I am pretty sure there ChupaReaper is not the only person who will make good quality mods like his, just now...) but for this part of the discussion, maybe "push" it to the board changes topic?  :|
For ChupaReaper's, I agree, even though not all of his models and such is not really created by himself, and is kinda from commercial games, still, kinda true. One thing though, unless he breaks up his mods, or somehow improves the file size for people who don't have a great connection...then that is a CON that would make his mod unstickable, IMO...
Umm...Weird, did I get OT...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ElimiNator on 5 July 2010, 16:45:56
Looks realy cool! Where did you learn to do the water?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 5 July 2010, 23:36:20
Looks realy cool! Where did you learn to do the water?
Read the video description on youtube.

[Unstickied. For now]
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ElimiNator on 6 July 2010, 04:40:10
OK, thanks.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 7 July 2010, 23:27:48
*Watches the A-Team movie, and realizes even the main barrel can shoot out fighter jets...*

However, since my tank is not hovering in the air via a parachute, I think its better balance to not have it capible of attacking tanks... Really, it gives Air units the advantage they deserve.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ElimiNator on 8 July 2010, 00:45:40
Could you post the exact link to the water tutorial? I can't find it...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 8 July 2010, 02:29:20
Er, let me see... I know it was from a downloaded PDF. Some blender mag or something... :P

Not sure where though...

Edit//
Aha! Here it is! http://blenderart.org/
Not sure which issue though... So sorry... :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 12 July 2010, 20:06:05
So, I'm typing this from a newly installed ubuntu OS. I hope to bring a linux version in soon. Linux is not my area of experience though, so anyone got some advice or tips?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ElimiNator on 13 July 2010, 02:29:34
Basically all you need are new exacuteibles.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 13 July 2010, 11:44:25
That's binaries(.bin) in Linux.

Don't name the binary: military.bin
Name is: military

For some reason I can't execute a binary by double clicking if it has the bin extention, but I can if it doesn't..........
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ElimiNator on 13 July 2010, 16:07:27
Yah, same for me. Just re-naming it fixes.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 14 July 2010, 02:35:25
Ok... Though I do know that some people also name their text files extensionless (a stupid choice, IMO, since *.txt is universally accepted), so that would give an option. Will work though, unless there's a better extension...

Gotta get all these programs into my ubuntu though, so don't count on it being released at the same time as the windows version.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 9 August 2010, 22:43:15
All right, I was away for a bit, unannounced (no time, sorry) but managed to fit in some time to get military going. Its ALMOST done, just needs a few fixes to the gunshot sound effects  (they sound too different on a per-unit basis. For example, the marine's shot should sound the same all the time, while it may sound different from the infantry).

Oh, and I also need:
-Linux version of the original configurator (the vanilla glest one. I suppose the MegaGlest one MIGHT work, though I've never tried, so can't confirm)
-Linux version of the megaglest map editor and G3D viewer

I suppose I could just download a linux version of megaglest, but not sure if there is one that isn't weighted down with a ton of other stuff (sloooow internet, as always).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 9 August 2010, 23:56:47
Never mind. I found it here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/megaglest/files/in_development/megaglest3.3.5.1-beta1_i386_linux_bin.tar.bz2/download
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: ultifd on 10 August 2010, 00:05:46
Never mind. I found it here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/megaglest/files/in_development/megaglest3.3.5.1-beta1_i386_linux_bin.tar.bz2/download
Oh, you were talking about that. Hmm, sometimes the forum theme just really confuses me...
Anyways, not sure if anything was changed in the configurator, g3d editor, or map editor, but that is indeed the latest public version...

Sorry.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 10 August 2010, 01:00:13
Aw, you deleted your post? Now it doesn't make sense! ::)

Anyway, expect a new version quite soon.

Although, I want a new scenario or two in there that is novel and unique. Bearing in mind GAE's lua restrictions, what would be a good scenario idea (I have a king of the hill scenario in there).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 11 August 2010, 02:02:33
Oh dear, oh dear. I am totally stumped. Linux seems to baffle me on what should be totally simple (grr). How on earth do I run a file on ubuntu??? I made a linux installer for military, but switching to ubuntu, when I try to open the file, nothing happens. I tried on a few random files, nothing. Couldn't find anything on the command line either (the obvious choices, namely exec didn't work, and run states there is no such function).

I shouldn't be stumped by such a simple (?) thing, so what's going on? Google gave me no help.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 11 August 2010, 03:11:40
"./" is the run command.
Example: "./glest.bin"
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 11 August 2010, 03:25:04
All righty, lets try that. If I can get it to work, it'll be almost ready to release. Now, anyone got an idea, no matter how simple, hard, crazy, whatever, for a neat scenario?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Yggdrasil on 11 August 2010, 10:52:54
You probably didn't make it executable. See Permissions in Properties of the file (depends on your file manager). Or run 'chmod +x glest.bin', assuming you're in the same directory as your installer and it's called glest.bin. Then you can run it like Archmage said, (double)clicking in your file manager should also work.

'./' is not a run command. Why would just 'blender' run Blender then? It just qualifies that you are talking about the file in the current directory, otherwise your shell will search in your system path and won't find it. The "file" .(Point) just references to the current directory you are already in. ..(doublepoint) references to one directory up. They're for building relative paths.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 11 August 2010, 11:08:54
I've found that files with the .bin extension don't seem to run(regardless of whether they're executable or not) from a double click. Taking the extension off makes it run for me.

Quote
'./' is not a run command. Why would just 'blender' run Blender then? It just qualifies that you are talking about the file in the current directory, otherwise your shell will search in your system path and won't find it. The "file" .(Point) just references to the current directory you are already in. ..(doublepoint) references to one directory up. They're for building relative paths.

I always wondered about that, thanks. :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 13 August 2010, 01:37:42
Well, ./ did NOT work for me. Though at least there was no errors, though nothing happened either, even with sudo. Double clicking the executable, which I tried both, without an extension and with the .bin extension gives the same results as the terminal, flat nothings. I'll try the permissions like you suggested.

If its worth mentioning though, it seems to know its an application, as the properties state it as x-application or something (this would be the MIME type to my knowledge). Programs that are installed and have a place in the menu (not sure what exactly to call that applications menu) work fine, though they don't seem to be the same (for example, I can type firefox anywhere in the terminal and it'll open firefox).

Also possibly worth mentioning that other programs don't seem to open either. For example, opening the 'bin' folder of the filesystem and trying random programs failed.

Thanks for any help though. Perhaps I'll just release the Linux installer and *hope* it'll work for you guys, if I am unable to test it myself.... :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: -Archmage- on 13 August 2010, 01:40:37
Would you like me to take a look at it? :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 13 August 2010, 02:08:18
Meh, I'll be releasing 2.4 in a day or two, so I'll just release it all at once. Of course, ~40MB a file won't be easy to upload... No patches though, because I didn't keep track of the changes, nor do I keep older versions. :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Now v2.3
Post by: Omega on 15 August 2010, 00:52:00
And it is released! Here is version 2.4:

7zip (OS-Independant):
http://www.filefront.com/17201774/military_24_files.7z

Windows Installer:
http://www.filefront.com/17202038/military_24_install.exe

Linux Installer:
http://www.filefront.com/17202137/military_24_install

Changelog:
Code: [Select]
-Changes voice musics
-Improved gun shot sound effects
-Updated AA Launcher model
-Added naval scenarios
-Destroyer is a normally available unit now
-Included modified evergreen tileset
-Fixed model in Dark Forest tileset
-Added a number of maps, including naval maps
-Updated a few scenarios
-Fixed icons for units with new models
-Included a walkthrough with the files
-Added linux files and installer
-Improved balance of units
-Includes the megaglest versions of the Map Editor and G3D Viewer
-Numerous small changes to the XMLs
-Installer now includes a few more files required to make things work
-Installers are OS dependant. The Windows installer doesn't include linux
 files, while the Linux installer doesn't have the windows files (although the
 map editor, G3D viewer, and Configurator do not have linux versions. This
 can be hoped to be fixed in the future)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Yggdrasil on 16 August 2010, 13:14:59
I'm always get stuck at 67% when downloading the 7zip file and it won't resume. Maybe the upload is corrupted. Can someone confirm?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Gabbe on 16 August 2010, 15:04:00
Negative, check your connection. Also:
Quote from: filefront says
Your download will begin in a moment. If it does not, click here.
Maximum download speed can be currently limited.
Please try to come back later for much better experience.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: ultifd on 16 August 2010, 18:52:09
I'm always get stuck at 67% when downloading the 7zip file and it won't resume. Maybe the upload is corrupted. Can someone confirm?
It worked for me. Maybe just try again. I guess...
(But I haven't really tried it yet, just a few "check-ups"...
EDIT: I downloaded the exe but...just try again, still...I guess.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Omega on 17 August 2010, 03:37:03
Just try again. Might've been something wrong with the host at that time.

Enjoy the mod!

By the way, out of curiosity, could someone take that criteria thingy that we brought up a while back about faction grading and grade military? I'm too biased  ;D

EDIT// Also, has anyone been able to confirm the linux installer works?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: ZaggyDad on 24 August 2010, 12:44:03
EDIT// Also, has anyone been able to confirm the linux installer works?

It worked on Sabayon, but for some reason the executables it created won't run.

~Zaggy
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: ElimiNator on 24 August 2010, 15:53:41
Ok, I will.  :)

Quote
Criteria for ratings:

0-5% New Models
0-5% Good Models
0-5% New Textures
0-5% Good Textures
0-5% New Animations
0-5% Good Animations
0-5% New Sounds
0-5% Good Sounds
0-5% New Music
0-5% Good Music
0-5% New Icons
0-5% Good Icons
0-10% AI
0-5% New Particles
0-5% Good Particles
0-10% Balance
0-10% Misc
=0-100% overall rating
Quote
platinum:  95 pt
Gold:       75 pt
Silver:     55 pt
Bronze:    35 pt
Stone:     25 pt
wood       0 pt
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Omega on 25 August 2010, 01:28:42
Ok, I will.  :)

Quote
Criteria for ratings:

0-5% New Models
0-5% Good Models
0-5% New Textures
0-5% Good Textures
0-5% New Animations
0-5% Good Animations
0-5% New Sounds
0-5% Good Sounds
0-5% New Music
0-5% Good Music
0-5% New Icons
0-5% Good Icons
0-10% AI
0-5% New Particles
0-5% Good Particles
0-10% Balance
0-10% Misc
=0-100% overall rating
Quote
platinum:  95 pt
Gold:       75 pt
Silver:     55 pt
Bronze:    35 pt
Stone:     25 pt
wood       0 pt
Hmm? Perhaps I missed something, but I don't see any rating... just the criteria.

EDIT// Also, has anyone been able to confirm the linux installer works?

It worked on Sabayon, but for some reason the executables it created won't run.

~Zaggy
Like, the executables to run the program (ie: glestadv)? If so... that's odd... Do they work in the 7zip package?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: tiger on 25 August 2010, 02:51:08
Quote
0-10% Misc

Whats Misc ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: John.d.h on 25 August 2010, 03:42:20
Quote
0-10% Misc

Whats Misc ::)
Miscellaneous, meaning anything not included in the other categories.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: ElimiNator on 25 August 2010, 05:58:35
Hmm? Perhaps I missed something, but I don't see any rating... just the criteria.
No, I didn`t rate it yet.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Omega on 25 August 2010, 16:57:19
Hmm? Perhaps I missed something, but I don't see any rating... just the criteria.
No, I didn`t rate it yet.
Would you like to? Or perhaps john, since he's generally known as the most impartial.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: ZaggyDad on 25 August 2010, 18:42:15
Quote from: Omega
Like, the executables to run the program (ie: glestadv)?

Yeah, every executable in the folder it created other than the uninstaller did nothing when I double-clicked on them. And, yes, I did check if they were set to executable.

Quote from: Omega
If so... that's odd... Do they work in the 7zip package?

It's sort of hard to try, but I might see what it does if I try running the version the installer extracts from the terminal.

~Zaggy1024
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Omega on 26 August 2010, 01:09:27
That is... not what I expected... I must admit, that is VERY odd, since I did not make those executables, but rathers, they were compiled by silnarm and are the "official" binaries on the GAE thread. Perhaps it has something to do with the OS. Unfortunately, I know very little about linux and their executables, so I think perhaps Silnarm or someone with lots of linux experience is best off to answer this... Anyway, they are unmodified binaries for GAE 0.2.13, so if you have that, you can just copy that executable to play.

Good to know the installer works well, though I am a bit puzzled by this... I also must admit, I've never even heard of "Sabayon", so I got no clue about it or the executable types it needs. Of course, you can always compile GAE from source, should need be, and that should work well if other's executables fail.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: ElimiNator on 26 August 2010, 05:18:45
I just posted the criteria.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Yggdrasil on 26 August 2010, 13:24:13
Good to know the installer works well, though I am a bit puzzled by this... I also must admit, I've never even heard of "Sabayon", so I got no clue about it or the executable types it needs. Of course, you can always compile GAE from source, should need be, and that should work well if other's executables fail.
Sabayon is just another linux distribution like Ubuntu is one. They all use ELF as binary format and gcc as compiler. So theoretical binaries are portable across most distributions. The main problem are shared libraries. They also need to be binary compatible (ABI), so one needs more or less the same version or distributes the needed stuff with the binary package like it's done on windows or link everything statically...

@Zaggy1024: You're probably missing some shared libraries or you have a different version of them. Please run the binary from console and post the output here. (If you're using KDE4, press F4 in Dolphin when you're in the install folder and type './glestadv' and press Enter. If it's not called glestadv use the appropriate name.)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: ZaggyDad on 26 August 2010, 13:47:47
@Zaggy1024: You're probably missing some shared libraries or you have a different version of them. Please run the binary from console and post the output here. (If you're using KDE4, press F4 in Dolphin when you're in the install folder and type './glestadv' and press Enter. If it's not called glestadv use the appropriate name.)

Oh, you're right. it's missing liblua 5.1. I may try installing the package later and try running it again later.

~Zaggy1024
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: ultifd on 4 September 2010, 03:26:38
One thing I noticed is that Military is at version 2.4 right now. (Or hopefully 2.5 when GAE 0.3 officially comes out)
Anyways...don't forgot to update your sig, Omega.  ;)
 -- Heh heh, thanks - Omega
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Omega on 19 September 2010, 01:34:52
Well, well, well... GAE 0.3 is now out, and it's time to get crackin'! I understand that 0.3 has some bugs, and that those will be mostly worked out in 0.3.1 (or 0.3a, depending on how the GAE Team chooses to name the version). Either way, I anticipate the next version to be mostly focused on bug fixes and the content should be the same, thus, I'll get started on updating Military to 0.3x.

Firstly, transportation units. I'd like one water and one land transporation units, and I'm open to suggestions. Images are also handy, as trying to make something from mental pictures is inferior to basing something (however loosely) off an existing object.

Secondly, scenario ideas. There's some new commands and of course, I'll update the EoM series to use the new camera and dialogue stuff. Basically, any cool ideas for scenarios (all military scenarios are scripted with lua), not just ones using the new commands either (though I really wanna try the new commands!).

Finally, any other things handy from 0.3 that Military can take advantage of? Of course, I'll try to get more music (I have a lot of CC-BY-SA licensed music files I can use, though I'm open to cool suggestions that work well with military). One can expect at least 5 tracks of music, which, while heavy on the filesize, will definately spice the game up!

Anything else?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: John.d.h on 19 September 2010, 01:42:53
Firstly, transportation units. I'd like one water and one land transporation units, and I'm open to suggestions. Images are also handy, as trying to make something from mental pictures is inferior to basing something (however loosely) off an existing object.
LCAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCAC)
APC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_armored_personnel_carrier)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Omega on 19 September 2010, 17:34:33
That's excellent, thanks John!

In other news, I'm going over GAE, learned it pretty well, and now converting Military over to it. After looking at all the work that must be done, I decided this will be a major version, meaning, yes, Military v3. However, one shouldn't expect a release for about a month. I will try to also improve the animations of the units, which will require me to completely rebone them and all, since I lost the blends for almost all of them. Though, I will try new animation methods for them too, based on John's methods. Hmm.... possibly more than a month...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- APC + Transport Ship
Post by: Omega on 26 September 2010, 20:32:58
Hard at work, we now have an APC (Armoured Personal Carrier, which can carry all infantry-style units across land, and has lots of HP and Armour, while having a machine gun of roughly the same strength as the Humvee) and the Transport Ship (can carry all land units across water, high health, high armour, no weapons). Because I needed something that could move tanks and humvees as well, the LCAC wasn't practical for that, so I went with a generic 'Transport Ship'.

Both work very well, as well, the Humvee can transport up to 2 infantry units (meant more for fast transport than practical movement, since it's less armoured and more vulnerable).
Code: [Select]
[center][img]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9076/newunitpreview.png[/img][/center]
Units are also being reanimated, and the Grenadier has been done, and looks great. The medic will be converted to a handgun in the process. The factory emits smoke from its smokestacks, though there's no on-death particles yet, as those are broken in GAE at the moment, but should be added in with 0.3.1. The menu screen looks very pretty, and features the GAE logo at the bottom instead of the GPL one (military itself isn't GPL anyway).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: ElimiNator on 26 September 2010, 23:58:05
looks cool but isn't the boat a bit small to carry that?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Mark on 27 September 2010, 01:42:38
Cool.  However, humvees use tires.  I do like how you make it vulnerable.  Humvees in iraq get shredded by IEDs every week or so!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: wyvern on 27 September 2010, 18:55:56
Looks great but the apc is a tad too boxy it needs an angled front and should be lower down, have you considered having a AT rocket upgrade to the APC, it could be a one shot tank killing weapon that slowly reloads with ep.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Zoythrus on 27 September 2010, 19:34:50
why cant i change the windowed mode in Military? i dislike it windowed, how do i change it?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: John.d.h on 27 September 2010, 19:45:28
looks cool but isn't the boat a bit small to carry that?
It does look like a little toy boat, doesn't it? ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 27 September 2010, 19:58:25
why cant i change the windowed mode in Military? i dislike it windowed, how do i change it?

Go to the glestadv.ini file in the game folder, then change "DisplayWindowed=false" to "DisplayWindowed=true". I can't stand none windowed either  ;D

BTW this is great, I've accidentally just spent far too long playing your scenarios. Though are you going to do up the building models a bit.... most of them are fairly average.... just sayin'.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Omega on 27 September 2010, 21:46:39
looks cool but isn't the boat a bit small to carry that?
The boat is a size 3 unit, the biggest I can do without making it impossible to navigate rivers... Of course, if I wanted it to scale, it would have to be roughly 100 or more units, so I'm afraid scale just isn't possible.  :|

why cant i change the windowed mode in Military? i dislike it windowed, how do i change it?

Go to the glestadv.ini file in the game folder, then change "DisplayWindowed=false" to "DisplayWindowed=true". I can't stand none windowed either  ;D
Windowed is the default for two reasons: (1) Full screen + Comodo don't mix well for initial play and (2) Everyone's resolution is different, and to allow them to get the most out of their full-screen, they need to set their resolution too. I will include a custom configurator with this that has options to change these though, so don't worry about that.

Though are you going to do up the building models a bit.... most of them are fairly average.... just sayin'.
What do you mean "do up the buildings"? :confused:

have you considered having a AT rocket upgrade to the APC, it could be a one shot tank killing weapon that slowly reloads with ep.
Might be interesting as a morph, though perhaps not one-shot..... Even the nuke can't one-hit a tank, and it takes 5 minutes to charge.

Cool.  However, humvees use tires.  I do like how you make it vulnerable.  Humvees in iraq get shredded by IEDs every week or so!
The picture is not the humvee, it's the new APC. The humvee keeps it's tires. ;)



In other news, behold the marine!

Code: [Select]
[img]http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2128/marinev2.png[/img]
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 28 September 2010, 09:44:52
It's just that a few buildings are only a few rectangles.....
BTW I couldn't get a few of the scenarios to work? is it just me, or do they not work for everyone?
BTW again, cool looking marine  ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: John.d.h on 28 September 2010, 13:10:59
It's an improvement, and I know I've probably griped about it enough already, but the position of the gun could be improved a bit.  Currently it seems to be above his shoulder, rather than being held against it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: wyvern on 28 September 2010, 18:45:01
I didn't mean the rocket to be one shot kill but for it to have only one shot till it is reloaded
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Omega on 28 September 2010, 20:55:33
It's an improvement, and I know I've probably griped about it enough already, but the position of the gun could be improved a bit.  Currently it seems to be above his shoulder, rather than being held against it.
Stretching limitiations. The arm's are too short, and can't quite move the same way as a human's.

It's just that a few buildings are only a few rectangles.....
BTW I couldn't get a few of the scenarios to work? is it just me, or do they not work for everyone?
BTW again, cool looking marine  ;D
Which scenarios? Can you give me more details so I may fix them?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: wyvern on 28 September 2010, 21:10:45
By the way why does this faction/mod use a jumble of various nations equipment, your marine has an AK 47 yet your armored vehicles and aircraft are what the US uses, I know I'm probably annoying but I just felt like asking.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Omega on 28 September 2010, 21:46:57
Because it's not some could-actually-happen scenario. It's just meant for fun and playability. Most of the technical things are off too, some simply for balancing out the game better or to make gameplay more enjoyable. For example, a real life nuke would totally wipe out the foe's camp, wouldn't even be bodies left over (and would probably destroy every other camp, including yours too), but in the game, for practicability, balance, and so you aren't totally f---ed up if you end up nuked, it does not. Usually fantasy games are less effected by these paradoxes and what-not since they are fantasy, but the mix of surreal units of military makes that a bit harder for this. Fortunately, my "solution" was to set this in the future. While you guys are enjoying 2010, the marine will be safe another hundred years on. ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- New Release: 2.4
Post by: Omega on 29 September 2010, 22:58:25
Mwhaha! After some hard work fun last night, I have created an epic new logo for Military, which looks really quite pretty. A smaller version is seen on the first post (and in game with Military v3), but here is an optimized version:
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7387/optimizedsize.png[/img]
For those of you with internet to burn, you can check out the 4096x3072 image
Code: [Select]
[url=http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5465/4096x3072.png]here[/url]. I must warn you, it is 2.5MB, but it's also totally epic... Just stare at the detail of that logo... The shiny metalic surface reflecting the unit in front... So pretty...

[Mental sanity... mesmerized... The cake is a lie... Wait, what?]
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 29 September 2010, 23:12:15
In Blender, you might do well to "set smooth", so your guys don't look quite so chiseled.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 29 September 2010, 23:14:27
Yeah, I did set it on. It either doesn't work as well as I wish or it doesn't work in render mode? Or perhaps I did it wrong somehow... Wouldn't surprise me. Only a small faction of models I actually render in Blender.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Gabbe on 29 September 2010, 23:31:50
quite epic logo, if you want any criticms sorry i dont have an, but the tha "m" is in far worse shape than the others :P (Oh sorry, didnt notice the nuke on top.. XD)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: ultifd on 29 September 2010, 23:50:33
Looks cool, maybe we should include logos in the faction and techtree template for the wiki...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 30 September 2010, 00:55:51
Or at least you've got a good start on a loading screen.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 30 September 2010, 01:10:17
Looks cool, maybe we should include logos in the faction and techtree template for the wiki...
Logos would indeed be a good idea. Technically, any image that well portraits the faction or techtree in question works, including logos.

That really does remind me though, the loading screen image is stretched in a wierd way, which degrades quality when its unstretched to fill the screen. Maybe I'll go posting on the request feature board...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Mark on 30 September 2010, 01:35:36
It looks fantastic when small, and superb when large.  Great work!

I played your military for the first time last night.  Looked like hard work!  Some things I dislike:


Other than that it is great!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 1 October 2010, 18:49:31
Thanks Mark.

The factory, hmm, yes I would like to improve it, but how to do so efficiently while not making it look too small?

As for the Stealth Bomber, that's a good point. I can make it a size 3.

The flamethrower is currently undergoing some new particle effects, we'll have to see how that turns out. :D

Yeah, tanks are actually quite fast in real life, some capable of hitting 70km/hr... It's quite stereotipic, I know, to have them so slow. Mostly, that's just to balance them out thanks to their strength. Can I get some opinions on Realism vs Balance here? Whichever side the PLAYERS want, I'll go with.

The techtree? Not sure what you mean by "counter intuitive and rambling". Do you refer to the wide array of units (and their mixed weapontry)? If so, that's mostly because of the need for variety. Of course, I'm open to ideas for improvement.



Thanks mark for your comments, which are valuable for improving the mod. And, of course, other comments are always welcome. ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 1 October 2010, 23:03:49
will the military get an opponent? an opposing faction?

ideas:

Hillbillies

Hippies

Aliens

or some weird conglomeration of the three...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 1 October 2010, 23:29:42
will the military get an opponent? an opposing faction?

ideas:

Hillbillies

Hippies

Aliens

or some weird conglomeration of the three...
The Hell? :confused:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 1 October 2010, 23:35:56
im just saying that Military needs an enemy...of some sort...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 2 October 2010, 02:47:19
Perhaps... but definately not those ones. And at the moment, the focus is improving the existing faction, not adding an opponent. Possibly in the future, if inspiration shall give us better ideas (No offense, but.... hippies???).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 2 October 2010, 02:59:44
yes, hippies! they are anti-military, so it would be a perfect enemy! (and i wanna kill those pot-heads...)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Gabbe on 2 October 2010, 08:35:50
No, i can smell the military OP already..
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 2 October 2010, 14:57:23
why not rebels or something, like really cheapskate weapons and untrained troops :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 3 October 2010, 00:28:03
Could be rebels, terrorists, etc; Or even an opposing black ops, etc; But at the moment, the priority is still Military. An opponent may come in the distant future.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Mark on 3 October 2010, 02:25:42
And, of course, other comments are always welcome. ;)
No problem.  Some more:

The techtree? Not sure what you mean by "counter intuitive and rambling". Do you refer to the wide array of units (and their mixed weapontry)? If so, that's mostly because of the need for variety. Of course, I'm open to ideas for improvement.
What I mean is that almost every upgrade has a prerequisite.  I love extensive techtrees (one of the great things about rts games; it allows long, entertaining games), but getting "wartime negotions" requires some random prerequisite, from a different building.  I ended up building every single building just for one upgrade!  Most games have a set of upgrades done by one building, then another set of upgrades done by another building; or they opt for a different system, like in Civ4, where there is a techtree which is clear in what is and is not a prerequisite. 

You also have presence spelled wrong.  Ever single unit seems to have a healing presence, and you spell it "p-r-e-s-c-e-n-c-e".  I don't know if it is a dialect difference, but most people would think that is wrong, whatever the case.  Please change it.  Also, you could have the medic be able to build a field hospital, which would be a large tent with a red cross on it, which would heal adjacent units.  The AI wouldn't use it though...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 3 October 2010, 02:46:39
Thanks again mark. My comments:
-Sea, good question... I would LIKE to make it bigger, but its already the biggest standard unit, and I worry that rivers may become too crowded for practical use of boats. Since Military3 has a transport ship, which is too valuable to send out unguarded, it is necessary to send multiple ships down waterways, and I wonder how big we can go before things get too crowded...
-Factory: I suppose I will.
-Labatory: Good idea, I'm for it, and will add one into Military3. It will be the equivilant of the library in magic or the blacksmith in tech (aka: an upgrade building).

Concerning the prerequisites of Wartime Negotiations, it's meant to be the LAST upgrade you ever get, as its an endgame upgrade meant to drastically increase the defenses and health of the most important building, the Headquarters, allowing it to survive the stronger, late game units better. I hope to make the upgrades clearer by releasing an image of the upgrade map (similar to what Civ4 has) with Military3, along with the updated unit map (kind of broke it in 2.4). I hope that tooltips get implemented soon too, so I can explain better what the upgrades are.

@presence, my bad. Will fix to "Presence". No clue why my spelling failed me there. :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 6 October 2010, 00:30:02
hey, i was wondering if it'd be possible to make a wiki or something for this mod. it'd be nice to have details about the units and stuff like that
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 6 October 2010, 01:03:11
hey, i was wondering if it'd be possible to make a wiki or something for this mod. it'd be nice to have details about the units and stuff like that
I will eventually expand the Glest wiki to include military's units, but my first priority really is Magitech, since its the most popular, most common techtree. It doesn't merit its own wiki though, thats what the Glest Wiki is for. After all, it is a mod, even if its a full-conversion mod.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 6 October 2010, 01:28:41
ok, can you please explain to me the point of the grenadier? what's his purpose?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 6 October 2010, 19:38:07
To deliver a high splash damage attack, although at short range
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Trappin on 7 October 2010, 06:19:11
Quote
Can I get some opinions on Realism vs Balance here? Whichever side the PLAYERS want, I'll go with.

Maybe just rename the Humvee since your model resembles a tracked M577A2 Command Post vehicle.

 (http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/LAND_M577A2_M113_Command_Post.jpg)

Self propelled artillery units are slow when compared to standard tanks ( not sure I'd refer to the Braveheart as slow .. heh)

(http://www.army-technology.com/projects/as90/images/as90_8.jpg)

Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 7 October 2010, 19:09:14
an infantry combat vehicle with an anti tank missile mounted above the cannon(like the russian BMP) would be cool, it could act as a mix between apc and tank.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 7 October 2010, 19:33:27
the Humvee should transport men too, but only 4 or so, and it would allow them to fire out of it. the apc is the same way, only it holds 12 or so guys and they cant fire out
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 7 October 2010, 21:24:31
Quote
Can I get some opinions on Realism vs Balance here? Whichever side the PLAYERS want, I'll go with.

Maybe just rename the Humvee since your model resembles a tracked M577A2 Command Post vehicle.\

Erm...the humvee doesn't have tracks... Are you sure you aren't refering to the APC?

The humvee CAN transport men as well, but less and isn't well armoured. It's best use is to transport slow moving units to the destination, then immediately let them out.

The point of the grenadier is to deal high splash damage against INFANTRY UNITS. It has a unique attack type that is ineffective against non-humanoids, but deals heavier than normal damage against human units. I'd also like to add a secondary stun grenade attack with an effect to stun the foes temporarily without dealing damage. Might be an interesting tactic to pursue in the games as well ;).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 8 October 2010, 01:09:43
well, ok, i see that the grenadier has importance; but could you increase its range by 1 or 2? the range is too small i think. my grenadiers are unable to actually hit anything because they die too fast, so the range should be slightly increased.

also, what builds the apc? ive played 2 games and i cant find it (i have 2.4)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: ultifd on 8 October 2010, 01:47:22
Well, since they're are slow, you need to have some units to back up them. Besides, any faster they would probably be overpowered...
Similar with scarabs.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Gabbe on 8 October 2010, 05:07:33
Please not realism>balance?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 8 October 2010, 17:10:35
well, ok, i see that the grenadier has importance; but could you increase its range by 1 or 2? the range is too small i think. my grenadiers are unable to actually hit anything because they die too fast, so the range should be slightly increased.

also, what builds the apc? ive played 2 games and i cant find it (i have 2.4)
I can't find the apc or the transport ship :(
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 8 October 2010, 18:58:27
Er...they aren't implimented yet. I posted a screenshot a few posts above. They will appear in Military3, which may take 1-2 months to be released at current rate (lots of work, plus real life)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: ElimiNator on 9 October 2010, 01:49:06
Cool logo, did you do it in blender?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 9 October 2010, 18:36:53
Yes. It's made in Blender with ray mirrors, beveling, blender textures, etc;
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 26 October 2010, 22:02:07
Progress has been coming along. Very busy, with school, work, and life, but it's coming, and many of the units are coming along. The lab has been implimented, as per a suggestion, and it boasts an extra three upgrades, all geared towards giving your soldiers an upper edge in a battle.

Particle effects are being improved, and some units now have unit effects, though there appears to be some method of bug that is stopping me from using on death particles yet. Thanks to a treasure trove of suitable textures under suitable licenses that I found, I will be retexturing many of the buildings, and hopefully this can improve the overal quality of them. Also, the transport ship has a new model and texture, so that it seems unique from the destroyer. It's also a size 5 model, the largest moving unit I've created. Hopefully it will function fine with that large size.

New and changed units:

Code: [Select]
[img]http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9315/labu.png[/img]

[img]http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6175/transportship.png[/img]

[img]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4707/factory.png[/img]

In other news, since there is now support for death messages, I release custom death messages with Military, which are based upon an edited version of Scorch3D's:
Code: [Select]
Sorry about that chief... [%s has been defeated]
So the cake WAS a lie... [%s has been defeated]
I never win at this... [%s has been defeated]
Now I lay me down to sleep... [%s has been defeated]
Oh, the blood! I've never seen so much blood before... [%s has been defeated]
The pain! The agony! Do you mind...? [%s has been defeated]
Very funny... [%s has been defeated]
Well, you're having fun, aren't you? [%s has been defeated]
Missed it by THAT much. [%s has been defeated]
What the... Oh... [%s has been defeated]
I hate you. [%s has been defeated]
Love you too. [%s has been defeated]
I wonder what this button does? [%s has been defeated]
Wait, what...? [%s has been defeated]
I don't suppose saying sorry will help? [%s has been defeated]
Well, I'll be...! [%s has been defeated]
I thought we were friends? [%s has been defeated]
Is that so...? [%s has been defeated]
Oh yeah? Well I... um... [%s has been defeated]
It's always me. I never win this. [%s has been defeated]
You did that on purpose! [%s has been defeated]
The only easy day was yesterday? You think? [%s has been defeated]
You bastard! [%s has been defeated]
Time to pray... [%s has been defeated]
Meet you in hell! [%s has been defeated]
Well, I'm going up. Won't be seeing you anymore...! [%s has been defeated]
Wow... You kill much? [%s has been defeated]
I did not know the human body contains so much blood... [%s has been defeated]
First George, then Frank, now me? [%s has been defeated]
You must really hate me... [%s has been defeated]
That was not nice! [%s has been defeated]
Didn't your mother teach you to share? [%s has been defeated]
Oh, this is nothing... You should have seen my last death... [%s has been defeated]
You broke my heart...! [%s has been defeated]
Is it something I said? [%s has been defeated]
Ooof... [%s has been defeated]
Thank you doctor, but it's too late... [%s has been defeated]
Over my dead body! [%s has been defeated]
You'll regret this... [%s has been defeated]
You had no right to do this... [%s has been defeated]
Oh no, not again... [%s has been defeated]
Oh, man, my nail broke...! [%s has been defeated]
Goodbye... [%s has been defeated]
Help me!... [%s has been defeated]
Farewell, cruel world... [%s has been defeated]
I'll call my father! [%s has been defeated]
I hate dying on empty stomach... [%s has been defeated]
What's that burning smell...? [%s has been defeated]
What time is it now...? [%s has been defeated]
Another day, another bomb... [%s has been defeated]
I prefer wrestling... [%s has been defeated]
I want my lawyer...! [%s has been defeated]
Why does everything happen to me...? [%s has been defeated]
I think we have gone too far... [%s has been defeated]
I've got a bad feeling about this... [%s has been defeated]
I haven't written my will yet... [%s has been defeated]
I should've listened to my mother... [%s has been defeated]
My friends will never believe me... [%s has been defeated]
What was that noise...? [%s has been defeated]
Everybody dies... [%s has been defeated]
Thank you sir, may I have another...? [%s has been defeated]
I've got this crazy habit of dying... [%s has been defeated]
I forgive you... [%s has been defeated]
What a crazy way to lose weight... [%s has been defeated]
I see a bright light... [%s has been defeated]
Stay away from the light... [%s has been defeated]
Sticks and stones, love... [%s has been defeated]
Mommy ? Is that you ?... [%s has been defeated]
Ha-ha-ha! Very funny... [%s has been defeated]
What are you looking at...? [%s has been defeated]
You really hurt my feelings... [%s has been defeated]
Mom! I think I'll be late for dinner!... [%s has been defeated]
Why??... [%s has been defeated]
And I thought I couldn't die... [%s has been defeated]
You can kill the metal, but not the spirit... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't want to live anyway... [%s has been defeated]
Was that as close as I think it was?... [%s has been defeated]
Join the army, see the world they said... [%s has been defeated]
Does it mean I won't watch my cartoons tonight...? [%s has been defeated]
And I thought you liked me... [%s has been defeated]
I think this guy is a little crazy... [%s has been defeated]
Somehow I don't feel like killing anymore... [%s has been defeated]
What do you want to do, kill me?... [%s has been defeated]
What a strange way to die!... [%s has been defeated]
What a headache...! [%s has been defeated]
The things people do to get some attention... [%s has been defeated]
I am losing my mind... [%s has been defeated]
Something tells me I'm in trouble... [%s has been defeated]
It's unfair, I wasn't ready... [%s has been defeated]
Do you enjoy this?... [%s has been defeated]
Are you happy now?... [%s has been defeated]
Tell me I'm dreaming... [%s has been defeated]
This is the last thing I needed... [%s has been defeated]
Can we talk about this...? [%s has been defeated]
Everything was so good until you came... [%s has been defeated]
You will lose all your friends this way!... [%s has been defeated]
This will change my whole life... [%s has been defeated]
This is not good for my reputation... [%s has been defeated]
....and what was the good news? [%s has been defeated]
Where did it come from?... [%s has been defeated]
Give me a break!... [%s has been defeated]
I need some fresh air... [%s has been defeated]
Control yourself...! [%s has been defeated]
Don't worry, in a parallel universe I'm probably kicking your ass! [%s has been defeated]
What are you trying to prove here...? [%s has been defeated]
Find yourself another target! I quit... [%s has been defeated]
I need a bodyguard... [%s has been defeated]
Who turned off the lights..? [%s has been defeated]
My salary can't cover these damages... [%s has been defeated]
These deaths weren't in my contract... [%s has been defeated]
I need a raise for this high-risk job... [%s has been defeated]
Now I understand the words you said before shooting... [%s has been defeated]
Next time just ignore me... [%s has been defeated]
Now at the end I understand... [%s has been defeated]
I feel like a magnet for your bombs... [%s has been defeated]
It will ruin my haircut... [%s has been defeated]
I think my career is over... [%s has been defeated]
Boxing is less violent... [%s has been defeated]
I don't deserve this humiliation... [%s has been defeated]
I think I'll never get used to this... [%s has been defeated]
Can I borrow some luck from you? [%s has been defeated]
You won't get away with this... [%s has been defeated]
Compared to this, a dentist visit seems like fun... [%s has been defeated]
You have some kind of psychological problem... [%s has been defeated]
I think I have a temperature... [%s has been defeated]
You should ask my name BEFORE shooting... [%s has been defeated]
These games get more cruel every year... [%s has been defeated]
I could swear I saw something... [%s has been defeated]
Strange! The sky is clear, but it's raining... [%s has been defeated]
Next time use an alarm clock to wake me up... [%s has been defeated]
Can't you see the sign "No explosions"?!... [%s has been defeated]
Who spilled the tomato juice on the floor?... [%s has been defeated]
I just can't watch this... [%s has been defeated]
Let me out of here!!... [%s has been defeated]
I have no words to describe this... [%s has been defeated]
If just you were me... [%s has been defeated]
We'll return after short commercial break... [%s has been defeated]
It's the last weapon commercial I take part in... [%s has been defeated]
There are much easier ways to get a sunburn... [%s has been defeated]
It will be a very long night... [%s has been defeated]
It can happen once in your whole lifetime... [%s has been defeated]
Are you thinking what I am thinking..? [%s has been defeated]
I was just talking about you... [%s has been defeated]
I need a very long vacation... [%s has been defeated]
Wait, wait! One after another, not all at once... [%s has been defeated]
A cheese has less holes than I have now... [%s has been defeated]
I don't have a life insurance... [%s has been defeated]
It will take care of my sleeplessness... [%s has been defeated]
It will help me to calm down... [%s has been defeated]
Will I live doctor? Will I?... [%s has been defeated]
My grandmother makes roast chicken just this way... [%s has been defeated]
If somebody looks for me, I'm in nearest hospital... [%s has been defeated]
At home, I was using this kind of bomb to kill bugs... [%s has been defeated]
It will make my life shorter by ten years at least... [%s has been defeated]
There are much better ways to solve problems... [%s has been defeated]
What was my mistake?... [%s has been defeated]
I need one of these to kill my math teacher... [%s has been defeated]
I can swear I had more fingers a moment ago... [%s has been defeated]
You just had to ask... [%s has been defeated]
This way World War II started... [%s has been defeated]
I hate bombs sent by air mail... [%s has been defeated]
Bombs with brakes are too expensive for you?... [%s has been defeated]
I don't care... [%s has been defeated]
If you don't kill your enemy, he kills you... [%s has been defeated]
What dust! Don't you ever clean your bombs?... [%s has been defeated]
This bomb has rust! I'm surprised it even exploded... [%s has been defeated]
I'm only human, you know... [%s has been defeated]
Tomorrow it will be in the newspapers... I'm famous!! [%s has been defeated]
Send the letters to cemetery 5, grave 2.... [%s has been defeated]
Bad timing, as usual... [%s has been defeated]
Won't you feel lonely without me?... [%s has been defeated]
There is a limit how much I can take... [%s has been defeated]
I don't feel comfortable... [%s has been defeated]
What's the matter with you? Can't you recognize me?!... [%s has been defeated]
Damn, they probably changed the password... it's me, Jonny!!... [%s has been defeated]
Why didn't I think of this before?... [%s has been defeated]
I have the right to keep silent... forever... [%s has been defeated]
You made your point... [%s has been defeated]
Somehow I don't think your "sorry" will help me... [%s has been defeated]
Mamma mia!... [%s has been defeated]
I can't believe my eyes...! [%s has been defeated]
I take that as "no"!?... [%s has been defeated]
We were like brothers... [%s has been defeated]
I liked your shootings except the last one... [%s has been defeated]
I hope this bomb has no calories. I'm on diet... [%s has been defeated]
Where is my happy ending?... [%s has been defeated]
I think I just got a one-way ticket to hell... [%s has been defeated]
You broke my gold tooth... [%s has been defeated]
I think I'll be in the red book very soon... [%s has been defeated]
I was just testing you... [%s has been defeated]
To be or not to be? I guess I lost the first choice... [%s has been defeated]
Soon I'll start receiving bombs by fax... [%s has been defeated]
Do you agree for a draw? ...no? ...what a surprise... [%s has been defeated]
Can't we settle it over a game of chess?... [%s has been defeated]
And all of this just for me? Oh, you really shouldn't... [%s has been defeated]
Collecting bombs is a very dangerous hobby... [%s has been defeated]
It will break the ice between us... [%s has been defeated]
Et tu Brute? [%s has been defeated]
Don't wait for me... [%s has been defeated]
I'll never trust you again... [%s has been defeated]
We can still stay friends, can't we?... [%s has been defeated]
I hate when you do this... [%s has been defeated]
You aren't waiting for a "thank you", do you?... [%s has been defeated]
I think I swallowed my gum... how could you?... [%s has been defeated]
It will raise my blood pressure... [%s has been defeated]
If I could just kill the birds around my head... [%s has been defeated]
You make me sick... [%s has been defeated]
My hair is burning! I prefer the barber's... [%s has been defeated]
With friends like these, who needs enemies...? [%s has been defeated]
I don't like it, but it's free, so I'll take it... [%s has been defeated]
Can I get fries with that...? [%s has been defeated]
No waiter, it's a mistake - I ordered chicken... [%s has been defeated]
Now what?!... [%s has been defeated]
This is ridiculous... [%s has been defeated]
It wasn't my fault!... [%s has been defeated]
We still have one round left, don't we?... [%s has been defeated]
My grandfather is probably turning in his grave right now... [%s has been defeated]
This I call killing two rabbits in one shot... [%s has been defeated]
I'm innocent, why don't you believe me?... [%s has been defeated]
My parents won't be proud of me... [%s has been defeated]
I still have the right for a last phone call... [%s has been defeated]
Can you tell me the reason we started fighting?... [%s has been defeated]
I see no way out... I'm scared... [%s has been defeated]
This is disgusting... [%s has been defeated]
You look like the terrorist I saw in the newspaper... [%s has been defeated]
I wonder, what would superman do in this situation?... [%s has been defeated]
Superman, help...! [%s has been defeated]
This is not a good end, but it could be worse... [%s has been defeated]
Look, my boy, if you won't study, you'll end like this... [%s has been defeated]
There is a place for people like you... [%s has been defeated]
So I forgot the password, big deal... [%s has been defeated]
This I call "The Big Bang"... [%s has been defeated]
Does the word "life" mean anything to you?... [%s has been defeated]
I was just trying to be polite... [%s has been defeated]
Can't you understand humor?!... [%s has been defeated]
That was just a joke; JOKE I tell you!... [%s has been defeated]
What was I thinking?... [%s has been defeated]
You won't get my vote, that's for sure... [%s has been defeated]
There are some things I'll never understand... [%s has been defeated]
Take it off me!!! Take it away!!!! [%s has been defeated]
If it is fine with you, it's fine with me... [%s has been defeated]
Are you sure about this?... [%s has been defeated]
I hope you know what are you doing... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't want to fight you, they forced me to do it... [%s has been defeated]
Let's keep this a secret... [%s has been defeated]
I got the message... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't like this from the beginning... [%s has been defeated]
I'm so mad at you I think I'll explode... [%s has been defeated]
You scare me to death... [%s has been defeated]
I don't want to take part in this... [%s has been defeated]
Thank you, I wish you the same... [%s has been defeated]
I've been to much colder places in my life... [%s has been defeated]
Can we skip over the exploding part...? [%s has been defeated]
I was just starting to enjoy this... [%s has been defeated]
Couldn't you find a less painful way to kill me...? [%s has been defeated]
It's unfair, you were peeping... [%s has been defeated]
You need much more than that to shut me up... [%s has been defeated]
Try to talk to the psychiatrist... [%s has been defeated]
I just knew it would happen... [%s has been defeated]
I'll take this as a compliment... [%s has been defeated]
It's just like a dream come true... [%s has been defeated]
I'm so hungry I could eat a Nuke!... [%s has been defeated]
You missed me!... just kidding... [%s has been defeated]
I'm a dead man, like my father before me...! [%s has been defeated]
What? Sorry, I can't hear you, too many explosions around... [%s has been defeated]
Guns don't kill people, you kill people! [%s has been defeated]
Come on!... I have just enough problems without you... [%s has been defeated]
It's easy to be "open minded" when your head explodes... [%s has been defeated]
I thought we have an agreement between us... [%s has been defeated]
...on the second thought, you can have it if you want... [%s has been defeated]
Sometimes I ask myself why I am doing this?... [%s has been defeated]
I couldn't shoot better myself... [%s has been defeated]
You convinced me... [%s has been defeated]
I take back the words I said about your skills... [%s has been defeated]
I think I started to neglect my health recently... [%s has been defeated]
What's all the excitement about?... [%s has been defeated]
Why I am always the last to know about my death?... [%s has been defeated]
I was just following the instructions... [%s has been defeated]
You better have a very good excuse for this!... [%s has been defeated]
If I could just reach this button... No, I won't make it... [%s has been defeated]
This is bigger than me... [%s has been defeated]
I just can't live with this... [%s has been defeated]
I feel like Elvis... yes, he is dead, you got my point... [%s has been defeated]
All I asked for was to leave me alone... [%s has been defeated]
You lose your self-control sometimes?! Tell me about it... [%s has been defeated]
Where is the emergency exit here ?... [%s has been defeated]
I'm losing my patience, blood and other things... [%s has been defeated]
Because of this I prefer private clinics... [%s has been defeated]
Look at the bright side?!... what bright side?... [%s has been defeated]
You take my breath away... [%s has been defeated]
This is better then nothing... [%s has been defeated]
This is a question of life and death... [%s has been defeated]
What a way to take my blood sample... [%s has been defeated]
You just envy me... [%s has been defeated]
Doctor, isn't there another way to kill lice on my head?... [%s has been defeated]
I'm going down... [%s has been defeated]
My neck is turned in an unnatural direction... [%s has been defeated]
Rest in peace... no, rest in pieces... [%s has been defeated]
Only one way to live, and so many ways to die... [%s has been defeated]
I think I was fired... [%s has been defeated]
Wait a moment Grandma, can't you see I'm busy...?! [%s has been defeated]
With this bomb you couldn't miss... [%s has been defeated]
I'm thinking that I'm sinking... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't know my arm can be bended in that direction... [%s has been defeated]
Zorro!... Spiderman!... Robocop!... police!... anybody?!... [%s has been defeated]
Stop with your dirty tricks...! [%s has been defeated]
This is murder, you know... [%s has been defeated]
Wait a moment, I'm not dressed... [%s has been defeated]
I couldn't stand in your tempo... [%s has been defeated]
I must escape!!...Who put glue on my chair..?! [%s has been defeated]
Who locked the door...?! [%s has been defeated]
I wanted to say something, but it escaped with my head... [%s has been defeated]
I am dying, or is it just something I ate ?... [%s has been defeated]
You want to kill me, go to the end of the line... [%s has been defeated]
You are not my first murderer, and not the last one... [%s has been defeated]
Come on wood-face, ruin my day...! [%s has been defeated]
I always dreamed to look at the world from above... [%s has been defeated]
This is not the way I planned... [%s has been defeated]
I hate surprises... [%s has been defeated]
Look at me now, Mom !... [%s has been defeated]
I changed my mind, you hear me?! I can lower the price... [%s has been defeated]
I changed my mind, take it for free, I don't care...! [%s has been defeated]
Want to buy my left hand? ...my right hand? ... [%s has been defeated]
I just can't find myself, you know what I mean... [%s has been defeated]
The white flag was too small for you to notice...? [%s has been defeated]
There'll always be some pieces they won't find... [%s has been defeated]
It is too bad even for a nightmare... [%s has been defeated]
Who gave you my address?... [%s has been defeated]
Waiter, the bill please! I'm leaving... [%s has been defeated]
I was waiting for you to make the first move... [%s has been defeated]
The commercial was so fancy, said something about heaven... [%s has been defeated]
I can't afford big explosion, gimme something small... [%s has been defeated]
This is a hell of a bomb... [%s has been defeated]
Just let me know when it ends... [%s has been defeated]
I'm impressed... [%s has been defeated]
Impressive... very impressive... [%s has been defeated]
If you ask me, The Terminator does these things better... [%s has been defeated]
Superman, help!!... strange, it worked in the movie... [%s has been defeated]
I'm not going to perform the "dying swan" dance... [%s has been defeated]
No, I'm not a tax inspector, I'm just a postman... [%s has been defeated]
Stay on Earth, sucker, I'm going up !... [%s has been defeated]
I think you are sending me too far... [%s has been defeated]
There is some mistake here, I ordered chicken... [%s has been defeated]
Read my lips: ... H-e-l-p!!... [%s has been defeated]
When I was a child, mom told me not to play with fire... [%s has been defeated]
I think it is a perfect time to change my tactics... [%s has been defeated]
It has become too quiet suddenly, I don't like it... [%s has been defeated]
That was really unnecessary, if you ask me... [%s has been defeated]
You've got a very soft touch... [%s has been defeated]
Keep your muzzle shut, you moron...! [%s has been defeated]
From now on I'm on strike !.... [%s has been defeated]
For the coming month I'm closed for repairs... [%s has been defeated]
I just wanted to watch the battle, I may got too close... [%s has been defeated]
It will decrease my self-security... [%s has been defeated]
Oh no!! ...not into my ammunition box!!... [%s has been defeated]
Pray for me... [%s has been defeated]
In one circle of life I had three circles of death... [%s has been defeated]
For your curved muzzle it was a very straight shot... [%s has been defeated]
It was straight to the point... [%s has been defeated]
I want to show you my famous disappearance trick... [%s has been defeated]
You are fired...! [%s has been defeated]
Your bomb passed the speed limit... [%s has been defeated]
This was a good one... [%s has been defeated]
Come on, I want to see you do this again...! [%s has been defeated]
What a day... [%s has been defeated]
Thank you for your collaboration... [%s has been defeated]
You are killing me just because I'm your enemy...!? [%s has been defeated]
This wasn't in the script... [%s has been defeated]
I just wanted to kill you, that's all... [%s has been defeated]
God gives, God takes... [%s has been defeated]
I guess Saddam became bored again... [%s has been defeated]
Hey, do I still have time to give up?... [%s has been defeated]
What was the question again...? [%s has been defeated]
Don't push me!... give me some time... [%s has been defeated]
Sorry, wrong address... [%s has been defeated]
Being in the wrong place at the wrong time... [%s has been defeated]
I feel myself superfluous... [%s has been defeated]
S.O.S. [%s has been defeated]
Let's compromise... [%s has been defeated]
Don't put salt on my wound... [%s has been defeated]
Am I bleeding or am I bleeding?... [%s has been defeated]
Hey, not fair, I had the sun in my eyes...! [%s has been defeated]
I have a lot of connections, you know... [%s has been defeated]
Look what you have done!... [%s has been defeated]
The sky is falling on me...! [%s has been defeated]
Insolent...! [%s has been defeated]
I read in the newspaper bombs are not harmful... [%s has been defeated]
The bomb is like a wild untrained animal... [%s has been defeated]
You're a monster!... [%s has been defeated]
Don't just stand there, do something!!... [%s has been defeated]
This was obvious... [%s has been defeated]
Can I help you...? [%s has been defeated]
Did you find what you were looking for...? [%s has been defeated]
Don't look at me with these innocent eyes!... [%s has been defeated]
It was you, wasn't it?... [%s has been defeated]
I thought you were just threatening... [%s has been defeated]
I'm allergic to bombs... [%s has been defeated]
I don't like this role, I want to play Romeo... [%s has been defeated]
This is on your conscience... [%s has been defeated]
What a shock...! [%s has been defeated]
Do you have anything to say for your defence...? [%s has been defeated]
All this is under your responsibility... [%s has been defeated]
This isn't one of my yoga exercises... [%s has been defeated]
I always had a masochistic character... [%s has been defeated]
Any bonus...? [%s has been defeated]
Don't you ever knock...? [%s has been defeated]
Sadist... [%s has been defeated]
Where is the applause...? [%s has been defeated]
Come on, this is a final scene, give me some music... [%s has been defeated]
Don't look, you're embarrassing me... [%s has been defeated]
I should've read the script before this scene... [%s has been defeated]
I can't understand, my script ends here... [%s has been defeated]
I wonder why they raised my salary before this scene... [%s has been defeated]
You said it would be a comedy movie... [%s has been defeated]
What a tragedy... [%s has been defeated]
Where is the scene director...? [%s has been defeated]
Oh, boy...! [%s has been defeated]
Damn it...! [%s has been defeated]
Oh my dear Lord...! [%s has been defeated]
I must behave normally... normally... to hell with it! [%s has been defeated]
You discovered me... [%s has been defeated]
What's next?...I just can't wait to see... [%s has been defeated]
This is my last blind date... [%s has been defeated]
This was in my horoscope... [%s has been defeated]
Are you the guard...? [%s has been defeated]
I don't like this way of "giving a hand".... [%s has been defeated]
"Keeping in touch" mean sending letters, not bombs... [%s has been defeated]
If you wanted to remind me of yourself you could've call... [%s has been defeated]=
I'll remember this for the rest of my life... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't ask for an advance... [%s has been defeated]
I will return this loan as fast as I can... [%s has been defeated]
This is hopeless... [%s has been defeated]
You are kidding, right? ...right?... [%s has been defeated]
What a tension... [%s has been defeated]
I should have retreated... [%s has been defeated]
I'm history... [%s has been defeated]
My nerves can't handle this... [%s has been defeated]
You still remember me? ...how sweet... [%s has been defeated]
You are not making it easier for me, do you...? [%s has been defeated]
Winning isn't everything... [%s has been defeated]
I guess I'll stay here for a while... [%s has been defeated]
Is this your first operation, doctor...? [%s has been defeated]
This is just like the old times... [%s has been defeated]
Cut! cut!..... I hate this movie... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't know she is your wife...! [%s has been defeated]
I shouldn't have said "Come on, give me your best shot"... [%s has been defeated]
Me and my stupid jokes... [%s has been defeated]
This is not funny... [%s has been defeated]
Now I know why women live longer than men... [%s has been defeated]
So THIS way you solve the over-population problem...! [%s has been defeated]
Come on, we can share this land between us... [%s has been defeated]
I have a bomb-phobia... [%s has been defeated]
When I want to sleep I start counting bombs. one... two... [%s has been defeated]
Is this all you have in the menu...? [%s has been defeated]
For a brief moment I thought I had a chance... [%s has been defeated]
If you are not on my side, at least your bomb is... [%s has been defeated]
It's good you decided for me, I hate making decisions... [%s has been defeated]
I got some things to think about... [%s has been defeated]
You want me to leave? why didn't you say so? [%s has been defeated]
You fight better, but I'm damn good in the dying part... [%s has been defeated]
After you......... oh, well... [%s has been defeated]
I thought you miss me... [%s has been defeated]
You just couldn't miss the opportunity... [%s has been defeated]
I turn my back for a moment, and you... [%s has been defeated]
I knew you were doing something behind my back... [%s has been defeated]
This explains everything... [%s has been defeated]
What kind of surprise party is this...?! [%s has been defeated]
We could've made a very good team... [%s has been defeated]
My life will never be the same... [%s has been defeated]
I don't want to end my life like this... [%s has been defeated]
Come on, give me another chance...! [%s has been defeated]
I guess I'll spend the rest of my life here... [%s has been defeated]
I guess you're not the one who forgets... [%s has been defeated]
Doctor, I don't feel my leg... [%s has been defeated]
You said it wouldn't hurt... [%s has been defeated]
So you are the one who killed Robert, aren't you...? [%s has been defeated]
After all I did for you... [%s has been defeated]
Don't treat me like that, I could become offended... [%s has been defeated]
This is deep inside of me... [%s has been defeated]
The rest of my life will pass like a moment... [%s has been defeated]
I'll feel pain till the end of my death... [%s has been defeated]
This one really hurts... [%s has been defeated]
My death will be longer than my life... [%s has been defeated]
This is a very dramatic end... [%s has been defeated]
I was never so dead in my life...! [%s has been defeated]
I'm so close to death I can smell it... [%s has been defeated]
You didn't have to demonstrate, I believe you... [%s has been defeated]
Now I can say I saw everything in my life... [%s has been defeated]
This is a painful experience... [%s has been defeated]
I'll die, even if it's the last thing I do... [%s has been defeated]
The things people do to get experience... [%s has been defeated]
I hate learning from my mistakes... [%s has been defeated]
This is a bad start for a day... [%s has been defeated]
With such a morning, who needs an evening...? [%s has been defeated]
I've got so many things on my mind lately... [%s has been defeated]
I can't fight it anymore... [%s has been defeated]
Look where you are shooting, you idiot...! [%s has been defeated]
You'll end your life in jail... [%s has been defeated]
You'll rot in jail for that! [%s has been defeated]
You're really good at this... [%s has been defeated]
This will affect me... [%s has been defeated]
Where did you learn that...? [%s has been defeated]
You are improving... [%s has been defeated]
The last one was your best... [%s has been defeated]
You're learning fast... [%s has been defeated]
I've got this dying mood... [%s has been defeated]
Suddenly I feel tired... [%s has been defeated]
That's enough for me... [%s has been defeated]
I have to rest... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't know I have so much blood... [%s has been defeated]
I kill for living..... what living...? [%s has been defeated]
In my worst dreams I never... [%s has been defeated]
Sorry, I have to go, the angels are waiting... [%s has been defeated]
I hate gravity... [%s has been defeated]
I'm leaving, you hear that...?! [%s has been defeated]
Is it all you have to say for your defense...? [%s has been defeated]
It's very hard to argue with you... [%s has been defeated]
Did you have permission for this...? [%s has been defeated]
Who gave you the right to do that...?! [%s has been defeated]
What are the charges...? [%s has been defeated]
It's really hot for this season of the year... [%s has been defeated]
Do you have a killing order...? [%s has been defeated]
Keep your personal opinions to yourself... [%s has been defeated]
You're over-reacting... [%s has been defeated]
Come on, don't take it seriously... [%s has been defeated]
Bad luck... [%s has been defeated]
This is a torture... [%s has been defeated]
Why are you doing this...? [%s has been defeated]
I think you skipped over the court stage... [%s has been defeated]
What do you want from me...? [%s has been defeated]
You have something against me, don't you...? [%s has been defeated]
What will you get out of this...? [%s has been defeated]
Whatever your boss pays you, I'd pay twice that... [%s has been defeated]
I had everything, but I wanted more... [%s has been defeated]
I hate people like you... [%s has been defeated]
People like you are the problem of humanity... [%s has been defeated]
You are the most unhuman kind of human... [%s has been defeated]
This is unhuman... [%s has been defeated]
I can't have half, I must have it all or nothing... [%s has been defeated]
I took a chance... [%s has been defeated]
This is not worth it... [%s has been defeated]
How bombs can fly without wings... [%s has been defeated]
If it wasn't me, it could be funny... [%s has been defeated]
I hadn't said my last word.... now I did... [%s has been defeated]
I'm jumping from hell to hell... [%s has been defeated]
That was a very nasty thing to do... [%s has been defeated]
How can you look in my eyes after this...? [%s has been defeated]
If you have a problem, go to the manager... [%s has been defeated]
I'm not buying in your shop anymore... [%s has been defeated]
You can forget about my birthday present... [%s has been defeated]
I've became thin lately, I look like a skeleton... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't know I have so many bones... [%s has been defeated]
What part of my body is this...? [%s has been defeated]
I can't see myself in the mirror anymore... [%s has been defeated]
Who is that skeleton in the mirror...? [%s has been defeated]
Now I look pretty old for my age... [%s has been defeated]
Something bothers me... [%s has been defeated]
Can you show me the way out, please...? [%s has been defeated]
I was so close... [%s has been defeated]
Not me, him...! ...moron... [%s has been defeated]
Tell jokes we can both laugh about...! [%s has been defeated]
What will you do next, blow up the world...? [%s has been defeated]
The emergency number is 441... no, 911... no, damn it... [%s has been defeated]
What a mess... [%s has been defeated]
You are talking to me?... [%s has been defeated]
Are you hunting me...? [%s has been defeated]
I told you million times, a real tank is not a toy... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't know that gun was loaded... [%s has been defeated]
Son, I told you not to press the red button... [%s has been defeated]
Just imagine yourself in my place... [%s has been defeated]
So we are back to the Stone age way of solving problems... [%s has been defeated]
Lets talk like two civilized people... [%s has been defeated]
You're good in criticism... [%s has been defeated]
I'm in a critical situation... [%s has been defeated]
This is a pretty strong criticism... [%s has been defeated]
I hate this kind of active criticism... [%s has been defeated]
Hold it!... hold it!... let me explain... [%s has been defeated]
There is no limit how low you can get... [%s has been defeated]
That was a kick under the belt... [%s has been defeated]
I would agree for a draw... [%s has been defeated]
You still want a draw...? [%s has been defeated]
I should have predicted that... [%s has been defeated]
This is so romantic... [%s has been defeated]
This is bad... very bad... [%s has been defeated]
This is getting worse... [%s has been defeated]
What a lesson of anatomy... [%s has been defeated]
When you said you are fighting for my heart, I didn't take it literally... [%s has been defeated]
Wow, I really can look through myself... [%s has been defeated]
My heart is still beating... in my hand... [%s has been defeated]
The things you can see inside your body... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't know I'm so flexible... [%s has been defeated]
I think this was my body a second ago... [%s has been defeated]
I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it myself... [%s has been defeated]
Whose body-part is that...? [%s has been defeated]
This body-part is mine, and that one too... and that... [%s has been defeated]
Wow, I see myself everywhere... [%s has been defeated]
It really takes me apart... [%s has been defeated]
I'm losing myself and I can't stop it... [%s has been defeated]
I lost my appetite... [%s has been defeated]
You caught me in the bathroom... [%s has been defeated]
I guess I chose the wrong time to disturb you... [%s has been defeated]
Let's forget the whole thing... [%s has been defeated]
If you wanted to scare me, you did it... [%s has been defeated]
In moments like this I want to live more than ever... [%s has been defeated]
This time you win, but only this time...! [%s has been defeated]
If you want to laugh, this is the moment... [%s has been defeated]
If you want to say it's a joke, this is the time... [%s has been defeated]
Thank you, happy day to you too... [%s has been defeated]
Stop with these things, I'm eating... [%s has been defeated]
Sorry, I can't die right now, I'm busy... [%s has been defeated]
I can't afford this... [%s has been defeated]
I hope you woke me up for something important... [%s has been defeated]
I guess you don't care about the change, do you...? [%s has been defeated]
Thank you, I already have a couple of these... [%s has been defeated]
I'll never forgive myself... [%s has been defeated]
I'm worried... [%s has been defeated]
A dead got to do what a dead got to do... [%s has been defeated]
Sure I'll die, what are friends for... [%s has been defeated]
Damn kids...! [%s has been defeated]
I'm very happy for you... [%s has been defeated]
I didn't know it was yours... [%s has been defeated]
You never change, always blame everything on me... [%s has been defeated]
Come here fast to see this, your bomb is getting cold... [%s has been defeated]
Where has everybody gone to...? [%s has been defeated]
I thought you needed me... [%s has been defeated]
Do you have some aspirin...? [%s has been defeated]
And I thought nothing can be worse than those potatoes... [%s has been defeated]
I have to learn to keep my big mouth shut... [%s has been defeated]
Me and my big mouth... [%s has been defeated]
If that won`t kill me, I don't know what will... [%s has been defeated]
I just tried to help you... [%s has been defeated]
I should have used a nuke on you when I had the chance... [%s has been defeated]
Its all because of you... I guess you know that... [%s has been defeated]
You won the battle, but not the war... [%s has been defeated]
Take it away from me, please... please.... ple... [%s has been defeated]
Can you show me the way out? ...No?... Ok, I'll find by myself... [%s has been defeated]
Excuse me sir, what is the way to heaven?... [%s has been defeated]
Hell?? No, let me go to the heaven, please... please... [%s has been defeated]
Are you sure it's safe...? No?? ...but you said before... [%s has been defeated]
And I thought they forgot my birthday... [%s has been defeated]
I'm happy I caught it, it could've hurt somebody... [%s has been defeated]
I delete you from my will... [%s has been defeated]
I thought you're on my side... [%s has been defeated]
I'll die like a man! ........ Mo-o-o-ommy!!!!... [%s has been defeated]
I'll die like a man... [%s has been defeated]
Never mind, it's the thought that counts... [%s has been defeated]
With the life I had, I really lose nothing... [%s has been defeated]
Compared to the life I had, hell will be a good change... [%s has been defeated]
Can I make a last wish? ...No? ok...... [%s has been defeated]
Does anybody know mouth to mouth?... [%s has been defeated]
I deserve a much better death... [%s has been defeated]
I got it... [%s has been defeated]
At moments like this you really learn to appreciate the things you had... [%s has been defeated]
Now all my old problems look so small... [%s has been defeated]
Producer, I've got the shot, I've got it! ...What camera?!? [%s has been defeated]
I had a good life... [%s has been defeated]
Don't cry about me, please... [%s has been defeated]
I see a burning tank!...Ooops, that's mine... [%s has been defeated]
You never appreciate the good things until you lose them... [%s has been defeated]
I should learn not to start fights I can't win... [%s has been defeated]
I'm look damn good in red...too bad it's my blood... [%s has been defeated]
You are terrorist!... [%s has been defeated]
A message for me? Can't hear you, don't shoot while you talk... [%s has been defeated]
Abnormal termination... [%s has been defeated]
Damn good targeting system you have there... [%s has been defeated]
To think what people are ready do for some frags...they can kill for them! [%s has been defeated]
Damn, I need to find fast a really good explanation to my wife... [%s has been defeated]
You were my first...and my last. [%s has been defeated]
Death comes when you least expect it... [%s has been defeated]
Somehow it makes me sad... [%s has been defeated]
This is not the way to die...!...Or is it? [%s has been defeated]
I never thought I'll die like that... [%s has been defeated]
I am at the wrong side... [%s has been defeated]
If it looks like a bomb, falls like a bomb and kills like a bomb, it's probably a bomb... [%s has been defeated]
They use you, and then  they kill you... [%s has been defeated]
Well, here we go separate ways... [%s has been defeated]
I need a firewall... [%s has been defeated]
Damn, you're good... [%s has been defeated]
Damn campers...! [%s has been defeated]
You can take our lives, but you'll never take our freedom!!... [%s has been defeated]
You shoot faster than you talk, and much faster than you think... [%s has been defeated]
I knew you hate me, but didn't know that you hate me that much... [%s has been defeated]
I feel cheated... [%s has been defeated]
Please hold my hand, I'm so scared... [%s has been defeated]
If I go down, you all go down with me!... [%s has been defeated]
God, can you beam me up please?...I'm ready... [%s has been defeated]
You nasty, nasty boy... [%s has been defeated]
Bad tank, baaaaaaad tank... [%s has been defeated]
Ouch, stop thaaat...! [%s has been defeated]
It's not so much the pain, as that "could do better" feeling... [%s has been defeated]
Yeah?...and you are ugly!... [%s has been defeated]
Don't talk to me no more! [%s has been defeated]
I don't wanna see you ever again! [%s has been defeated]
Are you out of your mind? [%s has been defeated]
Maaan, you're really crazy... [%s has been defeated]
What do you think you're doing?! [%s has been defeated]
Yo, dude, what's up with that? [%s has been defeated]
Hah, nothing ends until the fat lady sings...what's that melody?... [%s has been defeated]
I hear angels singing for me... [%s has been defeated]
Death who?...death angel??...can't be, you've got the wrong person... [%s has been defeated]
It's all so wrong... [%s has been defeated]
Next reincarnation, here I come...! [%s has been defeated]
And that was not even my war... [%s has been defeated]
I thought we were just kidding... [%s has been defeated]
Don't say all that was for real... [%s has been defeated]
NOW you tell me it's a real battle???... [%s has been defeated]
Use the Force, Luke...! [%s has been defeated]
That was crossing the red line... [%s has been defeated]
Another day, another nuke... [%s has been defeated]
It's all messed up... [%s has been defeated]
What a mess! [%s has been defeated]
"Run guys, I'll cover you"??...what was I thinking?!... [%s has been defeated]
Nuke beta testing...they said it's dangerous, what was I thinking? [%s has been defeated]
You make something fool-proof, and immediately a new fool will show to crack it... [%s has been defeated]
Join me, together we'll rule the Galaxy as father and son!... [%s has been defeated]
Control, you must learn control!... [%s has been defeated]
Sorry, did I just say that a bit too loud?... [%s has been defeated]
I thought you're out of such bombs... [%s has been defeated]
I should get an anti-spam program. well, too late now... [%s has been defeated]
How it didn't show on the antivirus scan? [%s has been defeated]
Damn those old missile radars! [%s has been defeated]
I should have bought a missile radar... [%s has been defeated]
Damn spammers!... [%s has been defeated]
Where was my mistake?... [%s has been defeated]
How did I overlook that?... [%s has been defeated]
This is some kind of a bad joke...! [%s has been defeated]
The Force is strong with you, young Skywalker... [%s has been defeated]
The Force is strong with this one... [%s has been defeated]
Luke, don't kill me, I'm your father...! [%s has been defeated]
You really went too far on that one... [%s has been defeated]
I guess the size do matter, after all... [%s has been defeated]
Please don't watch my death... [%s has been defeated]
Here I am, will you send me and angel... la la la... [%s has been defeated]
It must've been life, but it's over now... la la la... [%s has been defeated]
Like a virgin, killed for the very first time... Like a virgin... la la la [%s has been defeated]
I should have changed the lock... [%s has been defeated]
There is a hole in my soul... la la la... [%s has been defeated]
Didn't you have a restriction order from me? [%s has been defeated]
I believed in the system...so stupid... [%s has been defeated]
Wow, you have some good stuff there... wanna share?... [%s has been defeated]
Why am I always the one to get hit??... [%s has been defeated]
Taking over the world is a bit harder than I thought... [%s has been defeated]
What will happen now??? What will happen now??!... [%s has been defeated]
Who's there?... [%s has been defeated]
I'm not home!... [%s has been defeated]
Go away!... [%s has been defeated]
Stop bothering me!... [%s has been defeated]
Sorry, not now! Can't you see I'm busy?! [%s has been defeated]
Well, this party got a bit out of hand...  [%s has been defeated]
I missed you like crazy...now I pay for that. [%s has been defeated]

And again, I must request ideas for scenarios. If you got a cool idea, or even a hum-dum-so-so idea, please suggest it here! :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 27 October 2010, 01:28:53
Very good I like it, By the way try to make the AA rocket launcher multi barreled instead of one oval hole, other then that, I love this mod :angel: ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 27 October 2010, 06:23:45
Hey, I have an idea. Doesn't anyone else think the Baton man is a little strange? Why not replace it with a Shot gunner? IMO it would make way more sense, it could still have the same range and damage.

P.S I really like the Lab model, more models should look like that. :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 27 October 2010, 14:12:29
Hey, I have an idea. Doesn't anyone else think the Baton man is a little strange? Why not replace it with a Shot gunner? IMO it would make way more sense, it could still have the same range and damage.


i second this motion. Shotguns are cooler than wimpy batons....

also, the lab looks great!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 27 October 2010, 14:15:05
Interesting idea... I may add a shotgunner in... Though I don't plan to remove the baton soldier.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 27 October 2010, 16:44:00
Interesting idea... I may add a shotgunner in... Though I don't plan to remove the baton soldier.
why not? how often do you see a soldier with a baton nowadays? it's obsolete...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 27 October 2010, 22:50:40
I would personally suggest giving the baton dude some inspirational emanation to nearby units.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 28 October 2010, 02:18:25
Or make it an electric baton and give it a stun effect.  At least then it's something more technological than a heavy stick.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 28 October 2010, 03:11:27
Or make it an electric baton and give it a stun effect.  At least then it's something more technological than a heavy stick.
ok, i can settle for this...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: ElimiNator on 28 October 2010, 05:06:36
The transport ship looks great, dose smoke come from its stack?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 28 October 2010, 05:27:38
Or make it an electric baton and give it a stun effect.  At least then it's something more technological than a heavy stick.
Good idea. Easy modification, won't wreck the balance (much), won't remove the unit (Seeing it appears on the logo, it would be a shame to remove it, especially when we needed more close range units), and looks cool. Not sure about giving it an emanation (especially since emanations always seem to stack the effect, even if not the duration. You see this as how multiple medics make insane regeneration rates), though a stun effect would be cool.

The transport ship looks great, dose smoke come from its stack?
It doesn't, but I like that idea, so it will. ;)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Mark on 1 November 2010, 03:02:30
Or make it an electric baton and give it a stun effect.  At least then it's something more technological than a heavy stick.
That's what I said when I proposed the batonman in the first place!  He was the 'electro-batonman'!

Nice job on the lab and the transport.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 2 November 2010, 01:14:43
This is another thing that has been bothering me.... All the unit sizes are kinda disproportionate from each other, I think you should find a standard size for them.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 2 November 2010, 18:46:28
Well, the infantry units, except the private (worker), are all proportional. But there's NO way to make the tank, boats, and buildings truly proportional. In order to make the transport ship proportional, it would have to be at least a size 100 unit... Land units of larger than size 2 simply.... fail. They can't pathfind well, always get stuck behind, and can be killed before they can fix up their pathfinding enough to even attack! The private (worker) is slightly different build (same height though) because they need so many animations that I simply re-used magitech's there (after all, the unit is essentially the same).

Hmm... This message isn't coming across, and I know people have better ideas that this, so I will now embed the message into everyone's minds:
Please submit ideas for scenarios.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Gabbe on 2 November 2010, 19:08:46
Stuck in a town, needs to escape
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 2 November 2010, 19:36:01
Stuck in a town, needs to escape

better idea: one lone hero unit, stuck in town, fights zombies, needs to escape
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 3 November 2010, 01:05:17
Stuck in a town, needs to escape

better idea: one lone hero unit, stuck in town, fights zombies, needs to escape
If I take out the zombies (hmm.... or maybe I could do zombies, if I have the time to make another unit... I wonder if other modders like Wciow would let me borrow units for the purpose of a scenario?) that will work nicely! I certainly think making a sole hero unit will be easy and fun.

More ideas please! (use your imagination!)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 3 November 2010, 01:14:01
Stuck in a town, needs to escape

better idea: one lone hero unit, stuck in town, fights zombies, needs to escape
If I take out the zombies (hmm.... or maybe I could do zombies, if I have the time to make another unit... I wonder if other modders like Wciow would let me borrow units for the purpose of a scenario?) that will work nicely! I certainly think making a sole hero unit will be easy and fun.

More ideas please! (use your imagination!)
about zombies, just say that there was a small town that was mysteriously creating nukes. one of them detonates and turns everyone into zombies (for some mysterious reason it didnt kill them). the main hero unit (you) has to investigate the matter while fending off the zombified populace. when i say zombies, i mean the slow and large horde type.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Mark on 3 November 2010, 01:55:53
And maybe the fall-out causes mutant freaks (bosses which mysteriously appear periodically)...

Dang, that is a lot of modding!  But otherwise, I like that idea.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 3 November 2010, 14:13:04
oh yeah, dont forget survivors! ones that survived the nuclear blast (who knows?!?!?!?). get near them and they'll help you out (is a larger army ever a bad thing?)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Gabbe on 3 November 2010, 15:18:45
Well, now it looks like a WaW wannabe almost..
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 3 November 2010, 19:21:55
Well, now it looks like a WaW wannabe almost..
true, I'd prefer something like a transport helicopter got shot down in a terrorist occupied village and the survivors have to shoot their way out to safety, maybe if they reached a certain spot they could get new weapons that were captured, for example rpg's lmg's flamethrowers sniper rifles etc. by the way have you considered a mortar trooper as a light infantry support artillery unit.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 3 November 2010, 23:32:53
Well, now it looks like a WaW wannabe almost..
true, I'd prefer something like a transport helicopter got shot down in a terrorist occupied village and the survivors have to shoot their way out to safety
Black Hawk Down (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_Down_%28film%29) :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 4 November 2010, 19:37:06
Never saw that movie but I think its based on what happened in mogadishu sometime in 1991-2 time period
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 4 November 2010, 19:42:10
zombies are cooler than terrorists....although maybe they should be zombie terrorists?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 4 November 2010, 20:45:11
Well, now it looks like a WaW wannabe almost..
true, I'd prefer something like a transport helicopter got shot down in a terrorist occupied village and the survivors have to shoot their way out to safety
Black Hawk Down (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_Down_%28film%29) :thumbup:
I loved that movie. Still, that idea is far more complex to do well, I should think... Though a zombie should work fine, and will probably be tons of fun, no matter how overused it is! :D (Zombies + Big Guns = Fun for everyone)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 4 November 2010, 21:15:23
zombies are cooler than terrorists....although maybe they should be zombie terrorists?
That's campaign material right there!  The military is trying to root out a cult that is attempting to bring about some kind of apocalypse.  The cultists are trying to get their hands on some more military hardware with which to more effectively distribute their weaponized zombiethrax, because they believe that otherwise the governments of the world will institute an age of oppression and death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_%28conspiracy_theory%29).  The zombie outbreak is meant to sow chaos and disorder among the nations, so the cult can carry out the final stage of their plan.  The goal of the cult's plan is to take over the Minuteman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-30_Minuteman) silos and cleanse the world in holy nuclear flame,  in order to end the current age of corruption (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_yuga) so the  world can start anew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Yuga).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 4 November 2010, 21:21:23
zombies are cooler than terrorists....although maybe they should be zombie terrorists?
That's campaign material right there!  The military is trying to root out a cult that is attempting to bring about some kind of apocalypse.  The cultists are trying to get their hands on some more military hardware with which to more effectively distribute their weaponized zombiethrax, because they believe that otherwise the governments of the world will institute an age of oppression and death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_%28conspiracy_theory%29).  The zombie outbreak is meant to sow chaos and disorder among the nations, so the cult can carry out the final stage of their plan.  The goal of the cult's plan is to take over the Minuteman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-30_Minuteman) silos and cleanse the world in holy nuclear flame,  in order to end the current age of corruption (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_yuga) so the  world can start anew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Yuga).

in the missions shouldnt have just like, 20 zombies...no, im thinking 150 zombies all over the place (maybe even more!). they should be those kinds of levels that get your heart pumping. they should be like puzzles, something that makes you think.

see where im going?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 4 November 2010, 21:39:51
zombies are cooler than terrorists....although maybe they should be zombie terrorists?
That's campaign material right there!  The military is trying to root out a cult that is attempting to bring about some kind of apocalypse.  The cultists are trying to get their hands on some more military hardware with which to more effectively distribute their weaponized zombiethrax, because they believe that otherwise the governments of the world will institute an age of oppression and death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_%28conspiracy_theory%29).  The zombie outbreak is meant to sow chaos and disorder among the nations, so the cult can carry out the final stage of their plan.  The goal of the cult's plan is to take over the Minuteman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-30_Minuteman) silos and cleanse the world in holy nuclear flame,  in order to end the current age of corruption (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_yuga) so the  world can start anew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Yuga).
Hey! I like that idea... And it just may be possible... To possibly accomodate this concept, please note that the current release of Military is probably going to be bumped back (I've been very busy recently and haven't got much work done the last few weeks, so need more time anyway).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 4 November 2010, 21:48:32
i got this awesome hero name (the main character): Adelaide Johnson. He is a 6'2, fair skinned, blond haired, sunglasses-wearing, hero.

will this do?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 4 November 2010, 22:09:49
Well, campaigns aren't planned until 0.5 IIRC, so you've got some time before you'd need to worry about that.  We'd also need time to make the cultists and the zombies, which would take time.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 4 November 2010, 22:12:20
well, if you need help with a story, mission development (ideas and stuff), or etc, contact me - im a really good story/concept writer.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Gabbe on 5 November 2010, 14:56:04
I Have to say OMG OMG OMG because of the WaW copy insanely..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRhXMmffYKc
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 5 November 2010, 17:34:11
I Have to say OMG OMG OMG because of the WaW copy insanely..
You mean that they just so happen to also have ZOMBIES!?  And GUNS!?  And people shooting those zombies with said guns!?  NO WAY! :o
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 6 November 2010, 14:01:08
That does look epic, despite being offtopic.

There doesn't have to be true campaigns yet. It can simply be a rough campaign like End of Morning, which just has the scenarios as normal in their own category. Not sure if I'd use a single character though. Those never really work that well in a RTS (an FPS, yes). A group of soldiers in zombie-ville might be better gameplay-side.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 6 November 2010, 16:30:45
There doesn't have to be true campaigns yet. It can simply be a rough campaign like End of Morning, which just has the scenarios as normal in their own category. Not sure if I'd use a single character though. Those never really work that well in a RTS (an FPS, yes). A group of soldiers in zombie-ville might be better gameplay-side.

ive seen it done before where it was a hero (main character) and a small posse (like, 4 other guys). can we do that instead?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 7 November 2010, 02:10:26
There doesn't have to be true campaigns yet. It can simply be a rough campaign like End of Morning, which just has the scenarios as normal in their own category. Not sure if I'd use a single character though. Those never really work that well in a RTS (an FPS, yes). A group of soldiers in zombie-ville might be better gameplay-side.

ive seen it done before where it was a hero (main character) and a small posse (like, 4 other guys). can we do that instead?
:thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 7 November 2010, 03:25:09
There doesn't have to be true campaigns yet. It can simply be a rough campaign like End of Morning, which just has the scenarios as normal in their own category. Not sure if I'd use a single character though. Those never really work that well in a RTS (an FPS, yes). A group of soldiers in zombie-ville might be better gameplay-side.

ive seen it done before where it was a hero (main character) and a small posse (like, 4 other guys). can we do that instead?
:thumbup:

it should start with one guy, the hero, then grow as he finds survivors.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 7 November 2010, 05:17:38
Possible scenarios:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 7 November 2010, 07:12:47
I  like this cultist business.... apposing faction yeah?
.... they could be similar to the Illuminati, or something. Trying to create a New World Order by first destroying it. I have a friend who is real big on the Illuminati, i could ask him about it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 7 November 2010, 17:31:01
once we get this stuff done, the cultists should be an opposing faction for skirmishes and stuff.

Pros:
great speed, good production speed, cheap units and techs

Cons:
everything else sucks
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 7 November 2010, 22:55:45
I  like this cultist business.... apposing faction yeah?
.... they could be similar to the Illuminati, or something. Trying to create a New World Order by first destroying it. I have a friend who is real big on the Illuminati, i could ask him about it.
Verdict: Brainwashed by Dan Brown.

I like this cultist idea though. Wciow has also agreed to let me use his generic zombie model and will upload a blend model so I can modify as needed (Pre-thanks to Wciow!).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 7 November 2010, 23:11:51
the problem with wciow's zombies is that they stand upright, we need stereotypical zombies - ones that shuffle around, not walk.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: -Archmage- on 8 November 2010, 01:55:37
the problem with wciow's zombies is that they stand upright, we need stereotypical zombies - ones that shuffle around, not walk.

That stuff is all in the animations, and you can always re-animate. :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 8 November 2010, 02:25:56
They could be a mix between rebel terrorists, religious freak fanatics/cultists, and mad scientists
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 8 November 2010, 04:13:48
I  like this cultist business.... apposing faction yeah?
.... they could be similar to the Illuminati, or something. Trying to create a New World Order by first destroying it. I have a friend who is real big on the Illuminati, i could ask him about it.
I was kinda thinking the opposite: they're the crazed conspiracy theorists who think the Illuminati (or Freemasons, or Jews, or whoever) are really calling all the shots behind the scenes, and the cult wants to stop the prophecy of the NWO.  They're not trying to take over the world; they're trying to overthrow the world's governments and institute anarchy so nobody else can.  If they have to unleash the undead apocalypse and nuke all of the world's centers of sin and corruption to do so, then that's a price they're willing to make us all pay.

Oh no, I wasn't wearing my foil hat when I typed that!  THEY'RE READING MY THOUGHTS! :o

the problem with wciow's zombies is that they stand upright, we need stereotypical zombies - ones that shuffle around, not walk.
You're thinking so narrowly.  Zombies made from old decaying corpses might shuffle and drag (good for low-level enemies), but what about those made from fresh bodies?  They could walk, run, climb, etc.  It would all be awkward and clumsy, but the parts are all there.  I think our zombies need to be able to run to be a threat against guys with machine guns.  Plus, just think "pack of undead pit bulls" and tell me that's not scary. :P

They could be a mix between rebel terrorists, religious freak fanatics/cultists, and mad scientists
That's basically what I was thinking of.  They'd mostly be a rag-tag band of dudes with no military training, just guns they smuggled across the border from Mexico or something.  Come to think of it, isn't this the Canadian military?  Okay, guns smuggled from Russia, then!  I'm sure they have a few lying around somewhere. :look:  Anyway, their mechanized units would probably be converted civilian vehicles outfitted with Soviet hardware (i.e. technicals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_%28vehicle%29)).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 8 November 2010, 04:48:17
i like the idea of the AIMF (Anti-Illuminati Militant Force) being the opposing faction, that's original.

if anyone here has played C&C Generals, think GLA (im talking gameplay wise). if not, go here: http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/GLA

this is going to be awesome!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 8 November 2010, 04:51:21
We need to call Silnarm up, and see if he can implement somekind of zombie attack.... One that will turn others into zombies. Say once the targets Hp is down to a certain number. He morphs into a zombie and is captured by the enemy.

P.S I think they solders need a few awesome face masks. Also use a lot of chemical warfare. Like, they need a Bio-Chemist that can conjure up makeshift gas bombs. They could either block the view of other factions,  slowly kill enemy units, or turn units into zombies.

P.P.S a Suicide Bomber, would be awesome to.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 8 November 2010, 05:37:43
i like the idea of the AIMF (Anti-Illuminati Militant Force) being the opposing faction, that's original.

if anyone here has played C&C Generals, think GLA (im talking gameplay wise). if not, go here: http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/GLA
When I was thinking of potential units, I had to ask myself "How is this going to be any different from the GLA?"

We need to call Silnarm up, and see if he can implement somekind of zombie attack.... One that will turn others into zombies. Say once the targets Hp is down to a certain number. He morphs into a zombie and is captured by the enemy.

P.S I think they solders need a few awesome face masks. Also use a lot of chemical warfare. Like, they need a scientist that can conjure up makeshift gas bombs. They could either block the view of other factions,  slowly kill enemy units, or turn units into zombies.
I can't argue with that.  The zombie conversion sounds hard, though.  That seems more like a scenario-specific Lua thing, and other than that zombies could just be Glestimals.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 8 November 2010, 15:13:07
We need to call Silnarm up, and see if he can implement somekind of zombie attack.... One that will turn others into zombies. Say once the targets Hp is down to a certain number. He morphs into a zombie and is captured by the enemy.

P.S I think they solders need a few awesome face masks. Also use a lot of chemical warfare. Like, they need a Bio-Chemist that can conjure up makeshift gas bombs. They could either block the view of other factions,  slowly kill enemy units, or turn units into zombies.

P.P.S a Suicide Bomber, would be awesome to.

the zombies should not be turned into glestimals, they need to be controllable (it would otherwise defeat the purpose of making zombies in the first place!).

now, for weapons, i think some units should spray HAZMAT at other units and get a superb attack bonus against infantry but do nearly nothing to vehicles. i also like the idea of gas bombs that have certain "non-lethal" abilities. and yes, we need a suicide bomber also.

they need a really cool architectural style, maybe like this:  http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/cnc/images/c/c6/Obelisk.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread482775/pg1&usg=__SPl4KDrbCEfs0k4TlKVv-GOLjBM=&h=584&w=694&sz=158&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=nt-CPQ3wxwXXFM:&tbnh=155&tbnw=184&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dobelisk%2Bof%2Blight%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D642%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C228&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=138&vpy=210&dur=2315&hovh=206&hovw=245&tx=138&ty=145&ei=RRPYTMiiJpG-sAOqksyQCw&oei=RRPYTMiiJpG-sAOqksyQCw&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0&biw=1366&bih=642

now, they wont be the Nod, but i think they should look menacing overall.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 8 November 2010, 18:10:18
Zombies don't have to shuffle.... a zombie that can chase after you is more scary.

(http://chattablogs.com/quintus/dawn%20zombies.jpg)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 8 November 2010, 19:04:15
well, there should be different "ranks" of zombies. slow, shuffling ones are the newly formed zombies, medium speed ones are people who have been zombies for a while, while the highest "rank" would be well armored and have guns. in a skirmish, the new zombies can morph into the better ones, etc.

the Bio-Chemist unit needs a gas mask, and this would give him an immunity to other bio attacks (or a heightened resistance). and they need morph forms so they can be trained to become more specialized. e.g. the Necro-Chemist can turn dudes into zombies, while the Bio-Terrorist has many (ironically) barely lethal attacks (strength down, gradual HP loss, etc).

their tanks need to be chemical spraying machines. the anti-vehicle tanks would spray a corrosive material that does nearly nothing to infantry, then a anti-infantry vehicle that does the opposite.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 8 November 2010, 21:56:13
Cool ideas, but I think that's a tid bit much too... Zombies is a campaign, not a full blown enemy. They won't even be controllable outside of the campaign.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 9 November 2010, 00:26:02
Cool ideas, but I think that's a tid bit much too... Zombies is a campaign, not a full blown enemy. They won't even be controllable outside of the campaign.

why not? you had said that you liked the idea of an opposing faction, well, here it is!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 9 November 2010, 01:49:36
I think the cult could make a full-blown faction.  The zombies?  Not so much.  Having a Glest faction requires that they'd have builders, harvesters... a society, really.  Glestimals fit much better with the disorganized "wander around looking for something to eat" mentality.  Maybe one of the cultist units could recruit zombies as pets.  I recall something was planned regarding allowing pets to become "wild" when the master is killed, so that would make sense.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 9 November 2010, 01:52:43
I think the cult could make a full-blown faction.  The zombies?  Not so much.  Having a Glest faction requires that they'd have builders, harvesters... a society, really.  Glestimals fit much better with the disorganized "wander around looking for something to eat" mentality.  Maybe one of the cultist units could recruit zombies as pets.  I recall something was planned regarding allowing pets to become "wild" when the master is killed, so that would make sense.

the zombies would be...not pets but converted units. they would be essentially like Magic's daemons, only with less attack and more HP. I think that most of the army would be zombies (which are converted enemy units), so that would give the Cult a very different strategy (the have to make zombies to support their weak military)

also, there should be a 1/100 chance of a zombie "rebelling" and becoming an aggressive neutral; this number would raise to 1/50 chance if they are idle.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 9 November 2010, 05:06:55
I think the cult could make a full-blown faction.  The zombies?  Not so much.  Having a Glest faction requires that they'd have builders, harvesters... a society, really.  Glestimals fit much better with the disorganized "wander around looking for something to eat" mentality.  Maybe one of the cultist units could recruit zombies as pets.  I recall something was planned regarding allowing pets to become "wild" when the master is killed, so that would make sense.

Well, the Cult would be the faction, but they use the zombies.... I imagined that they would be weaker than Military, but they could swamp with zombies and use chemical warfare. Which would balance it out.

BTW we need a name.... I'm think something along the lines of "The Brotherhood Of..... something"
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 9 November 2010, 05:19:23
BTW we need a name.... I'm think something along the lines of "The Brotherhood Of..... something"
Choosing a name too early kinda limits the scope.  For the time being, we can just call them the Uprising or something.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 9 November 2010, 18:42:16
You know... Thinking closer, perhaps I *could* make an entirely separate faction... But, not with this release. That will be for a later release, such as v4. And by having them as an opposing faction, I could spice up the campaign by letting the player juggle through the sides, seeing all the perspectives (anyone remember the infiltration stage in MW2, where you had to join a bunch of terrorists in an airport? That could be used, as well, as playing as the enemy themselves). I have a really good looking zombie model that I found. I'll upload a picture when I get home.

That will certainly need some planning out, since this is sort of a mixture of terrorists, cult freaks, and... zombies :D. The zombies will be more modern than stereotypic (sort of like Zombieland in appearance).

For the meantime, version 3 focuses on some new units, and some new animations and textures (which, coincidencally, look fantastic).

EDIT// Here's zombie model concept:
(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7619/zombieix.png)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 9 November 2010, 22:28:55
that zombie looks great! i cant wait until Silnarm adds the ability to choose random textures/models for units (that would really improve the zombies)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Mark on 9 November 2010, 22:39:46
Yeah, it looks great, but give it realistically (or longer) long arms.  I like how zombies swing their arms around a lot, or hang them down to the ground when they walk.  It looks best with long arms.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Hagekura on 10 November 2010, 09:56:05
Wow awesome zombie... :o
How did you make such a good model?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Gabbe on 10 November 2010, 21:31:30
concept ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 10 November 2010, 22:11:05
i will agree with mark, the arms need to be an inch or so longer (a proportional inch, obviously); they do look a tad short. also, you might want to have an extra texture that looks like Two-Face (from the DC comics), i mean like, half of the skin on his face is gone - that would look cool (if you need a face to work with, do you want mine? it'd be cool to be a zombie...)

besides those, sweet!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 10 November 2010, 22:36:39
i will agree with mark, the arms need to be an inch or so longer (a proportional inch, obviously); they do look a tad short. also, you might want to have an extra texture that looks like Two-Face (from the DC comics), i mean like, half of the skin on his face is gone - that would look cool (if you need a face to work with, do you want mine? it'd be cool to be a zombie...)

besides those, sweet!
That could be an interesting idea... I'll take that image and give it a try (as long as you don't look like a kid. No offense, but these zombies are adults, and a 12 year old face would make it more commical)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 11 November 2010, 00:08:30
dude, im 18 and have a goatee. i look like im 22. give me a few days to get my face ready....
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Mark on 11 November 2010, 02:35:42
Shave and leave your face unkempt, or go for the fashionable greasy hair look!  The zombies will love you!  :O
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 11 November 2010, 03:06:11
Mark, the goatee stays....

so, would my face be ok? if you want, i can give a full body photo that you can zombify.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: -Archmage- on 11 November 2010, 05:31:41
I'll make a little patch that has Zoy written of the zombies shirt, and 'kik me' on the back. :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 11 November 2010, 05:49:09
call me suicidal...but now i can kill myself over and over! haha
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 12 November 2010, 01:42:14
call me suicidal...but now i can kill myself over and over! haha
Suicidal.

Mark, the goatee stays....

so, would my face be ok? if you want, i can give a full body photo that you can zombify.
I already have a zombie body. I'll take the head though, just so I can try and rip you to shreds in the most horrorific way possible...Er, I mean... Ah, yeah, what I said. I'll need 3/4 images of the face, from head on, both sides, and possibly a back.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 12 November 2010, 02:05:48
well, i got this mosquito bite recently, so it might be a few days. but once it heals, i'll send you those pics!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: -Archmage- on 12 November 2010, 05:43:04
well, i got this mosquito bite recently, so it might be a few days. but once it heals, i'll send you those pics!

You won't be able to see a mosquito bite.... ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 12 November 2010, 05:56:51
well, i got this mosquito bite recently, so it might be a few days. but once it heals, i'll send you those pics!

You won't be able to see a mosquito bite.... ::)

might as well look the best i can....
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 12 November 2010, 05:57:10
well, i got this mosquito bite recently, so it might be a few days. but once it heals, i'll send you those pics!

You won't be able to see a mosquito bite.... ::)
That's right. I specifically plan to rip out that piece of flesh...  :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 12 November 2010, 05:59:27
well, i got this mosquito bite recently, so it might be a few days. but once it heals, i'll send you those pics!

You won't be able to see a mosquito bite.... ::)
That's right. I specifically plan to rip out that piece of flesh...  :P

youre going to enjoy this, arent you?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 12 November 2010, 06:09:18
well, i got this mosquito bite recently, so it might be a few days. but once it heals, i'll send you those pics!

You won't be able to see a mosquito bite.... ::)
That's right. I specifically plan to rip out that piece of flesh...  :P

youre going to enjoy this, arent you?
Of course. ;D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 12 November 2010, 07:07:10
when i give you the pic, add sunglasses (i rarely go without them). maybe even give me a broken lens
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 12 November 2010, 07:12:57
when i give you the pic, add sunglasses (i rarely go without them). maybe even give me a broken lens
The keyword there is when. :zzz:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 12 November 2010, 07:18:41
when i give you the pic, add sunglasses (i rarely go without them). maybe even give me a broken lens
The keyword there is when. :zzz:

hey, right now it's the middle of the night! i cant take a snapshot right now!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 12 November 2010, 20:44:46
New models for the medic and shotgunner units:
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8034/shotgunner.png[/img]

[img]http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5820/medic.png[/img]

Also, I'd like to start the planning process of the opposing faction. First of all, we need name ideas for the opposing faction. They are a rogue terrorist organization which believes the governments of the world will bring it to an ultimate, authoritarian demise, and unleash a zombie outbreak to sow chaos and disorder among the nations, so the cult can carry out the final stage of their plan.  The goal of the cult's plan is to take over the Minuteman silos and cleanse the world in holy nuclear flame,  in order to end the current age of corruption so the world can start anew.

Also, I need ideas for buildings and units. Obviously there's the "infected" (our weakest, simplest zombies), as well as there will definitely be chemical warfare there... I also need an idea for the main building. Possibly something like hideout, etc (should sound cooler than that though :P).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 12 November 2010, 20:56:07
John and i were talking on the IRC (something Omega needs to be on more), and some ideas came up.

the zombies will be glestimals. when a Bio-Chemist unit turns infantry into zombies, the zombies are uncontrollable (but will die over time).

attack dogs, the Cult needs attack dogs as a weak anti-infantry and stealth detection unit. also, when a lab is built, the dogs can be mutated for an increase in speed, attack, and sight; but at the cost of HP and armor.

a gas mask-wearing elite soldier, analogous to the Spec Op. something about the Spec Op and the Elite is that they cannot become infected by zombie gas.

another elite infantry would be a soldier that has been mutated. enhanced range, attack, and speed; but is fragile.

they need a technical as an anti-infantry vehicle. and a battle bus - an apc that has lots of seats and fire ports. the strength of it is dependent upon the infantry you put inside.

an idea that i just had is for the base defense. it's a toxin tower that either shoots a caustic acid for infantry or a corrosive acid for vehicles (one or the other, not both. also, it can freely morph between the two forms)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 13 November 2010, 04:38:38
To expand a bit on this...

a gas mask-wearing elite soldier, analogous to the Spec Op. something about the Spec Op and the Elite is that they cannot become infected by zombie gas.
Inspiration:
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081203234260/metalslug/images/e/ed/Ptoleagent.gif)
Also: http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Combine_Soldier#Gallery (http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Combine_Soldier#Gallery)

It would probably also be useful to have a stealth infantry unit for close-quarter assassination.  (Pending stealth features in GAE 0.4)  This may or may not overlap with a suicide bomber (maybe with a choice between high explosive and toxic explosion).

Quote
they need a technical as an anti-infantry vehicle. and a battle bus - an apc that has lots of seats and fire ports. the strength of it is dependent upon the infantry you put inside.
I had a hard time describing to Zoy what I meant when I called it a battle wagon, but basically what I mean is something like a moving van with firing ports cut in the sides, and scrap metal armor welded on all over the place.  I'd be inclined to give it no guns of its own, but the AI might not like that.  The Technical is basically just a pickup truck with a machine gun turret in the bed.  I figure it could probably carry one infantry unit in the passenger seat, who could fire out the window (Warthog, anyone?).

I'll try to type up a more organized list later tonight.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 November 2010, 04:42:47
oh, and maybe a sniper. the Cult (or the Military) should have a dedicated sniper. now, i know that the Spec Op can snipe, but it'd be better if you could promote him to a dedicated sniper unit (who is also immune to zombie gas)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: ultifd on 13 November 2010, 04:45:42
(something Omega needs to be on more)
Yep, and not only him...everyone else too.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 13 November 2010, 05:50:05
a gas mask-wearing elite soldier, analogous to the Spec Op. something about the Spec Op and the Elite is that they cannot become infected by zombie gas.
Inspiration:
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081203234260/metalslug/images/e/ed/Ptoleagent.gif)
Also: http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Combine_Soldier#Gallery[/url
 (http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Combine_Soldier#Gallery)
Or maybe it was me.  :|
P.S I think they solders need a few awesome face masks.

Hehe, but I was thinking all their soldiers would be immune to the gas and wear masks. I was thinking something like these:
http://digitalization.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/killzone3.jpg
Code: [Select]
http://www.best-horror-movies.com/image-files/the-dark-lurking-storm-troopers.jpg
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/md5/e91e5e57b2bbc72aa3ee0f8f7f790444-soldier.png&imgrefurl=https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/windstille-commit/2008-May/001263.html&usg=__N0Yfo3D3SbDoi7FTJJD9VvFIFi4=&h=513&w=425&sz=118&hl=en&start=21&zoom=1&tbnid=V3SId7BPwB-uUM:&tbnh=126&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsoldier%2Bmechs%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D617%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C684&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=118&vpy=215&dur=1737&hovh=247&hovw=204&tx=140&ty=123&ei=aSbeTJr5BpCsugPBl6DyDg&oei=YybeTILeBYryvwPZ-eXKDg&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:21&biw=1366&bih=61
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 November 2010, 05:52:55
a gas mask-wearing elite soldier, analogous to the Spec Op. something about the Spec Op and the Elite is that they cannot become infected by zombie gas.
Inspiration:
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081203234260/metalslug/images/e/ed/Ptoleagent.gif)
Also: http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Combine_Soldier#Gallery[/url
 (http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Combine_Soldier#Gallery)
Or maybe it was me.  :|
P.S I think they solders need a few awesome face masks.

Hehe, but I was thinking all their soldiers would be immune to the gas and wear masks. I was thinking something like these:

Code: [Select]
http://api.ning.com/files/8TEsOxUcSjhCM8l6COdZzYO5ksd4nBeePkAL4ozegq-ughgk8Jtn0aeKTzsTPCUhAZsy3dolgphGmiFsnn5BRcbh9gBbZV/killzone2.jpg

http://www.best-horror-movies.com/image-files/the-dark-lurking-storm-troopers.jpg

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/md5/e91e5e57b2bbc72aa3ee0f8f7f790444-soldier.png&imgrefurl=https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/windstille-commit/2008-May/001263.html&usg=__N0Yfo3D3SbDoi7FTJJD9VvFIFi4=&h=513&w=425&sz=118&hl=en&start=21&zoom=1&tbnid=V3SId7BPwB-uUM:&tbnh=126&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsoldier%2Bmechs%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D617%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C684&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=118&vpy=215&dur=1737&hovh=247&hovw=204&tx=140&ty=123&ei=aSbeTJr5BpCsugPBl6DyDg&oei=YybeTILeBYryvwPZ-eXKDg&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:21&biw=1366&bih=61

So, Omega, these give you enough ideas?

also, i have given Omega pics of my face, so expect to see me as a zombie some time soon!  :P  (if you want to see my face, you can pm me....although i dont know why you'd want to)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 13 November 2010, 06:34:46
Stealing the combine soldier art from half life 2 sounds great to me... They do certainly fit the looks of a futuristic bio-soldier.

On the other hand, I don't think the zombies will be Glestimals. Too complex, no ways to convert units, and overally, it's just fraught with road bumps. Having them a normal, controllable unit is more effective for gameplay (though I do see your points). Basically, the ideas need to be possible with current technology in the GAE engine, or technology that will be implemented in 1-2 versions. I'm almost done v3, and can start working on the cult faction fairly soon.

I like the attack dog and toxin tower ideas.

it's a toxin tower that either shoots a caustic acid for infantry or a corrosive acid for vehicles
What is a caustic acid?

Still, more unit ideas needed. I'd expect about 20 units counting buildings (it won't be as large as Military. Or at least, not initially, but for sure a full sized faction). I also really need building ideas.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 November 2010, 06:43:53
it's a toxin tower that either shoots a caustic acid for infantry or a corrosive acid for vehicles
What is a caustic acid?

"acid" for lack of a better word. caustic means it destroys organic material, as opposed to corrosive. the elite infantry (on both sides) would have no resistance of any kind to these chemicals.

and about the zombies, silnarm says he'll add the ability to capture units, so we could just find a way to convert to neutral, right?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 13 November 2010, 16:07:02
Considering being immune to poison gas, me and Gabbe figured that in WW1 mod the units could morph between a gas mask and no gas mask mode, being slightly weaker all around if wearing gas masks due to the limitations the mask imposes on its wearer.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 13 November 2010, 16:30:26
Considering being immune to poison gas, me and Gabbe figured that in WW1 mod the units could morph between a gas mask and no gas mask mode, being slightly weaker all around if wearing gas masks due to the limitations the mask imposes on its wearer.
If your allies or enemies are deploying a dangerous bio-agent that turns people into the walking dead, I think leaving your gas mask on would be a safe bet. :look:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 13 November 2010, 16:32:55
What do you mean, its obviously safer, but you have limited vision which means you can't aim/shoot as well or walk as fast.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 November 2010, 17:11:49
What do you mean, its obviously safer, but you have limited vision which means you can't aim/shoot as well or walk as fast.

ive worn a gas mask before, and i could see just fine (it was just a bit hot).  assuming that this is 20 years in the future, i think they're gas masks might be more comfortable than what we have now
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 13 November 2010, 17:46:21
What do you mean, its obviously safer, but you have limited vision which means you can't aim/shoot as well or walk as fast.
If you know your enemy is going to be deploy biological weapons, wouldn't you put your gas mask on ahead of time, rather than stopping to put it on while you're getting shot at?  Plus, morphing your units back and forth would be a hassle and would require twice as many g3d files for that unit.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 November 2010, 17:53:13
i think that all infectable infantry (all except the elites) need a zombified model/texture. if you zombify a shotgunner, he's going to be a zombified shotgunner, not some random zombie.

also, what about an anti-air defense? and will they have aircraft? im thinking maybe a converted crop duster that drops various toxins as their only aircraft. and for an anti-air defense, maybe a flak turret?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 13 November 2010, 17:59:07
i think that all infectable infantry (all except the elites) need a zombified model/texture. if you zombify a shotgunner, he's going to be a zombified shotgunner, not some random zombie.
:o :o :o Ok, it's final, zombies are a regular unit.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 November 2010, 18:02:48
ok, i had this idea:

mutated Freaks. Freaks are large hulking monstrosities that come out of a lab. they are mainly anti-building and vehicle units that can take lots of punishment. but are technically infantry (really mutated 9-foot-tall infantry), so anti-infantry weapons are effective.

oh, and when the ability to capture comes around, will we make the zombies capture-only units?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 13 November 2010, 18:52:03
It just occured to me with the discussion of the Technical and Battle Wagon, that maybe a lot of the cult's vehicles rely on transported infantry for their firepower.  This would make them extremely versatile in that you could change a vehicle from anti-infantry to anti-vehicle, or any other role, as long as you have troops to pack into it.

i think that all infectable infantry (all except the elites) need a zombified model/texture. if you zombify a shotgunner, he's going to be a zombified shotgunner, not some random zombie.
Do you have any idea how much extra work that would be, or how friggin' huge the download would be with all the extra textures and g3d files?

Quote
also, what about an anti-air defense? and will they have aircraft? im thinking maybe a converted crop duster that drops various toxins as their only aircraft. and for an anti-air defense, maybe a flak turret?
The only aircraft that would make sense to me for guerilla warfare would be something like an autogyro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogyro).  They're small and light, you can take them anywhere, with no need for an airstrip, and you can build one out of junk.  Fewer moving parts = more reliable and cheaper to maintain.  This makes it a good scout craft for the underdog.

This one is made out of scrap metal and a Subaru car engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFatd2K_ii4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFatd2K_ii4)
It's also a two-seater, which means you can have a pilot and a dude with a rocket launcher or machine gun.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 November 2010, 18:55:43
It just occured to me with the discussion of the Technical and Battle Wagon, that maybe a lot of the cult's vehicles rely on transported infantry for their firepower.  This would make them extremely versatile in that you could change a vehicle from anti-infantry to anti-vehicle, or any other role, as long as you have troops to pack into it.

i think that all infectable infantry (all except the elites) need a zombified model/texture. if you zombify a shotgunner, he's going to be a zombified shotgunner, not some random zombie.
Do you have any idea how much extra work that would be, or how friggin' huge the download would be with all the extra textures and g3d files?

Quote
also, what about an anti-air defense? and will they have aircraft? im thinking maybe a converted crop duster that drops various toxins as their only aircraft. and for an anti-air defense, maybe a flak turret?
The only aircraft that would make sense to me for guerilla warfare would be something like an autogyro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogyro).  They're small and light, you can take them anywhere, with no need for an airstrip, and you can build one out of junk.  Fewer moving parts = more reliable and cheaper to maintain.  This makes it a good scout craft for the underdog.

This one is made out of scrap metal and a Subaru car engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFatd2K_ii4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFatd2K_ii4)
It's also a two-seater, which means you can have a pilot and a dude with a rocket launcher or machine gun.

ok, the whole zombified thing was far-fetched....i will admit that.

i like the gyrocopter idea, only you cant make it show it's passenger. it'd be hard to know who's in it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 13 November 2010, 19:08:06
i like the gyrocopter idea, only you cant make it show it's passenger. it'd be hard to know who's in it.
I wouldn't object to the gunner being a part of the unit, rather than a passenger.  Otherwise, you'd have to have some kind of enclosure around the machine, which would kinda kill the idea of it being some scratch-built contraption made out of old motorcycle parts.

:o :o :o Ok, it's final, zombies are a regular unit.
I still think making them Glestimals with two or three varieties would be best.  Don't let Zoy's over-ambition get to you. :P  That fits so much better with the zombie apocalypse where they're roaming around the ruins of a bombed-out city looking for brains.  It also makes them basically mindless, uncontrollable killing machines, which is exactly what they should be IMO.  In fact, until/unless we get engine support for unit conversion, it would probably be better to make zombification a scenario-only Lua event (if possible), or not even show it.  In this case, the player is in the situation where the outbreak has already happened.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 November 2010, 19:23:28
the copter will have to have a covering of some sort (they may be cultists, but they're not stupid).

and about the zombies, right now they'll have to be scenario only. once silnarm gets capturing going, though, we can finally have it the way it should be...

question: do cultists eat food? i mean, will they use food like the military does? maybe "junk"?

and we should just call them "The Cult." i mean, if the Military is known as "The Military," we could just go with a generic name.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 13 November 2010, 19:55:30
Do we have a tech tree layout of Military lying around somewhere?  It would be easier to think of units if I know what they're up against.  Also, the links on the OP are broken.

the copter will have to have a covering of some sort (they may be cultists, but they're not stupid).
I don't think it's really necessary if it's just a light scout craft not meant to engage in combat.  Maybe have two versions, one with an open cockpit that is faster and cheaper but unarmored, and one with a sturdy case and room for a gun-toting passenger.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 November 2010, 20:03:55
the copter will have to have a covering of some sort (they may be cultists, but they're not stupid).
I don't think it's really necessary if it's just a light scout craft not meant to engage in combat.  Maybe have two versions, one with an open cockpit that is faster and cheaper but unarmored, and one with a sturdy case and room for a gun-toting passenger.

i like this.

should they have a war priest? a guy with a puny handgun who buffs dudes around him (like the medic, only he doesnt heal). also, i think that all units should slowly regenerate (i dont know if they do already, im just saying)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 13 November 2010, 22:48:09
What do you mean, its obviously safer, but you have limited vision which means you can't aim/shoot as well or walk as fast.
If you know your enemy is going to be deploy biological weapons, wouldn't you put your gas mask on ahead of time, rather than stopping to put it on while you're getting shot at?  Plus, morphing your units back and forth would be a hassle and would require twice as many g3d files for that unit.
you don't always know but think about ww1 noone wore gas masks 24/7 despite the threat of gas attack.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 November 2010, 23:09:23
What do you mean, its obviously safer, but you have limited vision which means you can't aim/shoot as well or walk as fast.
If you know your enemy is going to be deploy biological weapons, wouldn't you put your gas mask on ahead of time, rather than stopping to put it on while you're getting shot at?  Plus, morphing your units back and forth would be a hassle and would require twice as many g3d files for that unit.
you don't always know but think about ww1 noone wore gas masks 24/7 despite the threat of gas attack.
this is 120 years after WW1, i think that they have learned by now to wear their masks. and with comfort technology, they can wear their masks 24/7.

just go with it, Wyvern
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 13 November 2010, 23:59:41
Acceptable breaks from reality, in favor of not being a pain in the ass to implement and actually use.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 14 November 2010, 03:29:22
What do you mean, its obviously safer, but you have limited vision which means you can't aim/shoot as well or walk as fast.
If you know your enemy is going to be deploy biological weapons, wouldn't you put your gas mask on ahead of time, rather than stopping to put it on while you're getting shot at?  Plus, morphing your units back and forth would be a hassle and would require twice as many g3d files for that unit.
you don't always know but think about ww1 noone wore gas masks 24/7 despite the threat of gas attack.
this is 120 years after WW1, i think that they have learned by now to wear their masks. and with comfort technology, they can wear their masks 24/7.

just go with it, Wyvern
Okay, sure, call me a realistic simulation freak.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 14 November 2010, 06:40:33
There's a map of the military faction in the read me (docs folder). It's slightly broken though, as I'm missing one arrow in it, but it should be obvious where it goes. Of course, it's slightly outdated since there's also the APC, Lab, and Shotgunner units making a premier in version 3.

Lua only zombies? What's the fun in that? If they can't be used by the player, that's simply no fun :P. What I'm thinking is that the zombies would be "released" from experimental tanks, prisons, etc etc. The biggest problem with them being Glestimals really, is just the complexity, and the possibility of me completing this before such a feature is implemented (I've heard nothing of said feature).

question: do cultists eat food? i mean, will they use food like the military does? maybe "junk"?
Well, we can assume that humans eat food, future or not (because eating a "meal pill" is disgusting), so yes, it will still be the food resource.

and we should just call them "The Cult." i mean, if the Military is known as "The Military," we could just go with a generic name.
Weeeeeeeeeell... Military was simply called military because it was generic. It didn't really have any real back story, and was the only faction in it's techtree. It may need a rename when the opposing cult is released (baring in mind that in this distant future, the world's forces are joined in one large task force, so it's no one government, but a coalition of Military forces opposing the "cult"). All names are temporary working names of course. In fact, the entire techtree may need a rename to fit said story... :-X
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 14 November 2010, 07:43:35
the military should be called the UNTF (United Nations Task Force), while the cult should be called "The Brethren of the Circle"

huh?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Gabbe on 14 November 2010, 10:19:49
UNTF = http://lmgtfy.com/?q=UNTF
TBC   = http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=The+Brethren+of+the+Circle/http://www.google.no/#hl=no&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=792&q=tbc&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=c9186af0dd7e064a uncertain, well check for both then
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 14 November 2010, 15:42:33
UNTF = http://lmgtfy.com/?q=UNTF
TBC   = http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=The+Brethren+of+the+Circle/http://www.google.no/#hl=no&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=792&q=tbc&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=c9186af0dd7e064a uncertain, well check for both then
Your point? Just because different organizations already exist under the same acronym doesn't mean we can't use it too. Acronyms can stand for multiple things, so safe from the EVILS of copyright.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 14 November 2010, 22:23:35
so, will those names work?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 15 November 2010, 02:51:09
so, will those names work?
I won't decide on names until it's ready to be released.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 20 November 2010, 00:53:37
Hmm... With faction logos coming in 0.3.2, I think that Military should definitely have one! I'm accepting, ideas, concepts, and of course, anyone who wants to actually make the logo, please go ahead. :D



On other notes, which ways will Military be released? I'm having trouble thinking of how to make a linux version, thanks to the fact the config dir is specified in the shortcut (I wants it in the INI!)...

There will for sure be the following releases:
-Addon package (cross platform. Untested, but I anticipate no problems. Just place in the addons folder and you're good to go. Biggest disadvantage is some unneccessary files and the fact that magitech remains there (plus, we can assume people will want this as a new install, since it changes so many core files).
-Windows Installer (Windows only, since I use windows, I can easily handle this. Has the advantage of filesize and ease of use, as well as a few extras such as start menu links. I plan to add more customization options).
-7z package (cross platform? I want to include both linux and windows binaries, but I don't know how to make a linux shortcut that will be able to set the config dir...)

Does anyone know how to make a linux shortcut or whatever so that the config dir can be set (which is a program parameter). I will add a request for config dir ini settings in the mean time...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 21 November 2010, 22:24:50
about the logo, the Military (who should be called the "United Nations' Strike Force"/UNSF) should have a shark (because sharks are cool)

now, some more ideas:
what's the point of the Flamethrower? i think the unit sucks, and so does the anim. that's why i came up with the idea of giving him to the Cult instead. now, who would fill that space? an exo-suit! the exo-suit would normally be unarmed, but you would be able to put an infantry unit into it, and it would boost the range/damage of the weapon. it would also have high armor, making infantry deadlier; also makes them immune to chemicals. lastly, the suit would be built from the factory.

so, the Cult and the UNSF would both have two elite units: Combine soldier dude and the mutated soldier for the Cult and the Spec ops and exo-suit for the UNSF

would this work for you, omega?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 21 November 2010, 23:26:11
about the logo, the Military (who should be called the "United Nations' Strike Force"/UNSF) should have a shark (because sharks are cool)

now, some more ideas:
what's the point of the Flamethrower? i think the unit sucks, and so does the anim. that's why i came up with the idea of giving him to the Cult instead. now, who would fill that space? an exo-suit! the exo-suit would normally be unarmed, but you would be able to put an infantry unit into it, and it would boost the range/damage of the weapon. it would also have high armor, making infantry deadlier; also makes them immune to chemicals. lastly, the suit would be built from the factory.

so, the Cult and the UNSF would both have two elite units: Combine soldier dude and the mutated soldier for the Cult and the Spec ops and exo-suit for the UNSF

would this work for you, omega?
I like the flamethrower where it is and I imagine the cult to be a bunch of terrorists with AK-47's, RPGs and so on, military could have a different rocket launcher though
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 22 November 2010, 00:19:01
about the logo, the Military (who should be called the "United Nations' Strike Force"/UNSF) should have a shark (because sharks are cool)

now, some more ideas:
what's the point of the Flamethrower? i think the unit sucks, and so does the anim. that's why i came up with the idea of giving him to the Cult instead. now, who would fill that space? an exo-suit! the exo-suit would normally be unarmed, but you would be able to put an infantry unit into it, and it would boost the range/damage of the weapon. it would also have high armor, making infantry deadlier; also makes them immune to chemicals. lastly, the suit would be built from the factory.

so, the Cult and the UNSF would both have two elite units: Combine soldier dude and the mutated soldier for the Cult and the Spec ops and exo-suit for the UNSF

would this work for you, omega?
I like the flamethrower where it is and I imagine the cult to be a bunch of terrorists with AK-47's, RPGs and so on, military could have a different rocket launcher though

well, the Cult is kinda based around chemical warfare, so maybe instead of a flamer, maybe a toxin sprayer?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 22 November 2010, 02:34:19
After some more discussion with Zoythrus on IRC, here's some of what we came up with for the Cult's basic layout, plus a few things I thought of while typing it up.  All names are place-holders.

Infantry - the basic soldier of the cult, armed with an AK-47, cheap and expendable
Rocket - rebel with a rocket launcher, anti-tank and anti-air
Dog - fast attack unit, detector

Lab
Launcher - guy with a grenade launcher, fires homemade napalm (anti-building) and gas grenades (anti-personnel)
Commando - elite mutant soldier with chamelon skin, SMG attack, blade attack allows him to stay cloaked, maybe a sabotage bomb
Shock trooper - Combine soldier analog, tough and mean, possible cyborg (resistant to bullets, weak to electricity)

Salvage yard
Technical - truck with a machine gunner in the bed, room for one passenger to fire out the window
Battle bus - armored van, firing ports for several passengers, may or may not have an attack of its own
Autogyro - flying junkyard contraption, scout vehicle, lightly armed (if at all), unarmored and open to the elements
Gungyro - upgraded gyro with a light armored shell and room for a passenger or two to shoot out of, maybe has a light machine gun of its own
Airboat - light naval transport

We also thought the UNSF needs a detector unit and figured a UAV would fit the bill.  Like the real-life Predator, it would be unarmed, but an upgrade could fit it with anti-vehicle rockets.  It could also be stealthy, possibly pending an upgrade.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 22 November 2010, 03:39:49
An unarmed UAV? No thank you... Missile armed UAV that can kamikaze? That sounds more fun.

Thanks for all the ideas John. Though, I think some of the units should be renamed because they share names with units in Military. Namely, the infantry and lab.

(Keep the ideas coming!)



Elite units... That works for me, but don't expect them until the cult is implemented (ie: not in this current release).



The flamethrower's attacking animation has been changed in v3. It looks MUCH better now. It's hardly a useless unit though, as it's attack is now even faster, and has a good chance of causing burns, which can deal damage after the initial attack. Plus, it affects an area, and in one test, attacking a building caused several privates to attempt to repair it, who quickly dropped dead without even targeting them, just because of that Area of Effect.

In addition, the Flamethrower has a second attack you may have not have noticed. It uses EP, so can't be used for long, but deals even more damage, and in v3, has a stronger burn that IS lethal and will kill most infantry units that are not healed by a medic (the medic was always useful, consider it even more so now).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 22 November 2010, 05:03:40
i think that being a quasi-religious cult, they need a unit analogous to the medic, and i call him the Cleric.

the cleric would have an emanation that boosts attack power and defense, but doesnt heal, nor does he have an attack himself.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 22 November 2010, 07:10:40
An unarmed UAV? No thank you... Missile armed UAV that can kamikaze? That sounds more fun.
Heh... I can't argue with that.

Quote
Thanks for all the ideas John. Though, I think some of the units should be renamed because they share names with units in Military. Namely, the infantry and lab.
Yeah, I didn't bother trying to come up with cool names yet.  Those are placeholders.

This might be more efficient if we had a list of the units that (will) exist in Military and a general idea of what they do, so I know what to match these guys up against, along with a ballpark figure of how many units we're talking about.

i think that being a quasi-religious cult, they need a unit analogous to the medic, and i call him the Cleric.

the cleric would have an emanation that boosts attack power and defense, but doesnt heal, nor does he have an attack himself.
I worry about the practicality of grouping a non-attacking unit in with your troops.  It would add some amount of micro, and that's just not all that fun (to me, anyway).  I agree that we do need to add some more dogmatic units to fit with the religious tone of the faction.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 22 November 2010, 09:09:16
i think that being a quasi-religious cult, they need a unit analogous to the medic, and i call him the Cleric.

the cleric would have an emanation that boosts attack power and defense, but doesnt heal, nor does he have an attack himself.
I worry about the practicality of grouping a non-attacking unit in with your troops.  It would add some amount of micro, and that's just not all that fun (to me, anyway).  I agree that we do need to add some more dogmatic units to fit with the religious tone of the faction.
Agreed. I dislike having non attacking units that should be with attacking units. He doesn't have to be strong, but an attack will be necessary if you want them to accompany an attack.

This might be more efficient if we had a list of the units that (will) exist in Military and a general idea of what they do, so I know what to match these guys up against, along with a ballpark figure of how many units we're talking about.
The unit's in Military at the moment are the same as before, plus there is also a lab, shotgunner, APC, and Transport Ship. Barring an "elite unit", military probably won't get any more changes other than possible name changes to units to make them better fit in with the theme. I still have a bit of work to do, but it shouldn't be *too* long before version 3 can be released, then we can actually even start planning the "cult".
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 22 November 2010, 15:04:42
you keep mentioning "elite unit" like it's some all powerful guy. when i think "elite," i think of a powerful infantry such as the Spec Ops or the Combine Soldier dude. in my sense, i think that all "elites" should be immune to toxins (and fire?).

maybe i'm wrong.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 22 November 2010, 18:54:57
you keep mentioning "elite unit" like it's some all powerful guy. when i think "elite," i think of a powerful infantry such as the Spec Ops or the Combine Soldier dude. in my sense, i think that all "elites" should be immune to toxins (and fire?).

maybe i'm wrong.
Immune to fire? Naw, that's overpowered. Toxins, maybe.

Toxins would just be a attack type on an effect.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 22 November 2010, 19:02:41
you keep mentioning "elite unit" like it's some all powerful guy. when i think "elite," i think of a powerful infantry such as the Spec Ops or the Combine Soldier dude. in my sense, i think that all "elites" should be immune to toxins (and fire?).

maybe i'm wrong.
Immune to fire? Naw, that's overpowered. Toxins, maybe.

Toxins would just be a attack type on an effect.

i said "fire" because it would they be immune to something from the UNSF. but definitely toxins - the Combine soldier and the Spec Ops have gas masks, the mutant commando is a mutant (mutated units are immune), and an exo-suit doesnt breathe (it's a robot, and last time i checked, robots dont breathe)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Hagekura on 23 November 2010, 04:01:19
If you had to create the exo-suit armoured elite soldier like zoy said,
I wish to see the soldier's appearance like these↓
Code: [Select]
[URL=http://img502.imageshack.us/i/jinrohwolf.jpg/][IMG]http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6533/jinrohwolf.th.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://img530.imageshack.us/i/kerbposterrenew.png/][IMG]http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5898/kerbposterrenew.th.png[/img][/URL]

hmn...It's just my personal request after all,forget it sir.
but just in case you will create the unit...I want to see them... :angel:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 23 November 2010, 18:39:34
Yes, something like that is what I had in mind too. Something like the combine from Half Life 2 (when the heck does episode 3 come out?! That ship is calling my name!) is what I imagined.

Of course, I am finishing up Military3 before I start making the "cult" faction, and the elite soldier (which still needs a name) will wait until the cult is out to face it... first step for v4 is to plan the cult faction. John has a start, but more ideas, as well as names and especially buildings, are needed.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 24 November 2010, 07:24:57
i think that a slaughterhouse/abattoir should be the food production structure. i would show how evil they are (their slaughterhouses do not follow FDA slaughtering standards)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: -Archmage- on 24 November 2010, 19:03:48
Quote
(their slaughterhouses do not follow FDA slaughtering standards)

 :O :O :O
Sounds so evil. :cheesy:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 25 November 2010, 08:12:37
I'll draft up a better list when I get back home this weekend and have time to take a closer look at Military's layout.
i think that a slaughterhouse/abattoir should be the food production structure. i would show how evil they are (their slaughterhouses do not follow FDA slaughtering standards)
I think you mean USDA, and their guidelines are... well, let's just say that most people would not like knowing how their meat is produced. :P

Anybody know how Hamas feeds and supplies its operatives? :look:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 25 November 2010, 19:53:00
Anybody know how Hamas feeds and supplies its operatives? :look:
Illegal smuggling, I would think, like most terrorist organizations do.

I'm thinking we can base a lot of the faction off terrorists, real life cults, and various other resistances. After all, the cult is basically a paranoid, terrorist cult which will attempt to reach their goal, no matter the cost. Though, we will assume them as well funded terrorists, not just the insurgents making bombs from household junk, but with professional weapons and a powerful systems. They aren't the neat, professionalism of the military, but can easily match its strength. Their weapons would be more balanced to mass destruction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ) instead of stealth or cleanness.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 26 November 2010, 04:34:53
mass destruction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

hmmm....mass destruction ;)

well, i think they should be stealthier than the Military.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: charlieg on 14 December 2010, 03:42:30
This mod might look a lot better, even play better, if the troops were of a more proportionate size - i.e. made smaller.  Having a soldier tower over a tank looks ridiculous.  It makes it look too toy-ish with all the buildings and vehicles looking undersized in comparison to the troops.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wciow on 14 December 2010, 17:13:10
I agree. Military is the most extensive mod ever made for Glest, but i feel it is let down by the weird size issue. I know that Glest has limitations with scale, but surely something can be done about this.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 14 December 2010, 17:48:10
there was a mod for Spring that was WW2 based. in the game, everything was to size. yes, infantry were tiny....but thats how things are in real life!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 14 December 2010, 22:22:40
Unfortunately, this is a limitation of the Glest engine. The AI has problems with size 3+ units, since their pathfinding ends up horrid and AI don't usually space buildings far enough apart. And I can't make units smaller because not only does that make telling the difference between them very difficult, but they are already at their smallest size. Finally, most maps aren't made with very large units taken into consideration, and when experimenting once, I ended up crashing glest a lot due to insufficient space on many maps (of course, that was just an experiment with far larger than practical units). And of course, another problem is that units that are "long" or "wide" more than they are "tall" would end up taking up too much space if made to be a suitable size vertically. It's like the transport ship, for example, which is the largest size for a moving unit, being a size 5 (which is more than crowded enough already, and naval units are largely limited to maps made with naval units in mind), is still looking awkward in comparison, since to make it "to scale", it'd have to be at least size 50!

This is a common limitation in RTS's and TBS's (take the civilization series for example), but has no current workaround.

As an update, it's getting there, but I've been *very* busy with work, school, and a bushload of homework, so that set it back quite a bit. I hope to finish the next version before christmas, and then we can get started on the "cult" (which, by the way, I am still accepting opinions, ideas, and concepts for it. I want to hear what you want!).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 15 December 2010, 06:48:46
ok, John and i were talking a while back, and we had some more ideas that should be implemented:

the Spec Op needs to be able to morph into a dedicated sniper! the Spec op seems too overpowered. this sniper would be cloaked when not moving and when attacking and dying (so you wouldnt be too sure if he's dead or not  :P). the Sniper would kill infantry instantly, but would be useless (like, zero damage) against tanks and buildings. also, remove the snipe ability from the spec op.

The Cult should have a stealth detection building, like a radar dish or something. now, we thought of something: the two factions would have their means of stealth detection reversed. the Military would have detecting buildings first (think Surveillance upgrade), but would get the UAV much later (detector unit). The Cult would be the opposite: they get the attack dogs in the beginning of the game, but the radar dish would come much later.

we noticed that the guns that the infantry should use should be M4's, because what they dont use bolt actions much anymore. this is for realism.

The Cult need a cyborg soldier with a "mana shield" of sorts. when the shield is up, the EP meter acts like a second health bar, absorbing damage.

The Cult also needs a cloaking field device, one that cloaks itself and everything nearby.

Make the Marine the standard Military infantry. we all know that you are just going to make them Marines anyways! and, give the workers the ability to turn into infantry (as a last ditch attempt to save the base). but this then you couldnt turn them back, but luckily you can still turn the infantry into Marines.

oh, and about the nuke: it should actually be a NUCLEAR WEAPON! right now, it wont even harm a fly. if it's a nuke, make it realistic (that means, if i launch it on a base, every unit will be dead, and every building will have low health)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: wyvern on 15 December 2010, 20:42:00
I disagree with making the marine the main infantry. I think the marine should be able to deploy real fast from naval transports while the infantry remains the main grround unit, have you considered transport helicopters, they could land, lift a howitzer or some infantry men and swiftly transport them, If you made it something like a chinook, it could carry a humvee too ;D. Also, is it possible to make the standard unit standing action replaced by patrol, for example, airplanes like the stealth bomber can't hover, so maybe you could have them automatically patrol in a certain radius when they're supposed to be standing :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 16 December 2010, 21:09:15
While your ideas are cool, I'm gonna have to hit you with my realism stick. Try and makes sure the ideas are compatible with GAE. For example, using EP as a second HP bar, is not possible. We can change the mod as new GAE features are introduced, but don't try and depend on features that don't exist. ;)

As for the nuke, it's overpowered as it is! While sure, a real nuke would one hit the entire base, then that'd mean a game over the moment a player got a nuke, turning it into simply a fight to see who can build the nuke first. It's supposed to be a disastrous catalyst, not a one hit game ender.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 17 December 2010, 02:33:55
ok, the shield thing was John's idea....

about the nuke, it should kill all units in that field, and damage buildings (i mean like by 1000 or so). if you have a nuke, it should actually act like a nuke!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Gabbe on 17 December 2010, 22:57:51
A nuke wouldn be way more devastating than just killing units within a certain area  ::)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: John.d.h on 17 December 2010, 23:10:57
Here's a little test you can do.  Gather up a whole bunch of Privates and have them stand together.  Drop a nuke on them.  See how many die.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Omega on 18 December 2010, 06:14:03
Hmm... After testing the John method, only 5 privates were killed by the initial  blast, and another 3 dropped dead from radiation poisoning shortly after. I'll increase the power of the nuke a bit, as well as the strength and duration of the radiation poisoning. I'll still control myself though, while it may one hit an infantry, stronger units like the flamethrower can still survive a nuke (abet, this is in the case of one nuke. Nobody said you had to use just one nuke... Test for you all: build five missile launchers, nuke the foes base at the same time, then attack. You will find it stunningly easy.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 18 December 2010, 06:26:21
im trying to have a balance between the nuke (military) and the bio-rocket (Cult)

nuke - lots of damage, but it's just one blast with some after effects

rocket - not much damage, but the radius is larger and the effect does much more damage and has greater persistence

you like?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Nearing Version 3!
Post by: Omega on 31 December 2010, 23:31:00
Meet the UNATF (United Nations Armed Task Force):

Menu Screen:
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/783/militarybg.jpg[/img](And no worries, the UN flag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_Nations.svg#Summary) is Public Domain)

And the new faction logo:
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8900/militarylogo.jpg[/img]
Version 3 is almost ready to release. I just need a newer snapshot to test this on. Because it uses cloaking, rev 1004 or higher is needed, but the only one I have, rev 1004, has a few critical bugs that are fixed in the newer snapshots. Alternatively, we can wait for 0.3.3, and get a (likely) less buggy version, at the cost of time. At any rate, I am patching up the language file after merging the latest from trunk (rev 1058). Silnarm has already graciously offered to build the installer, as well as using a slightly modified version of GAE to display Military in the program's titlebar, as well as to allow me to have a few changes to the INI without having to move the config folder. Though, I'd still have to test it in whatever version of GAE he will compile it with, because there's always a few changes that might need to be done (particularily the language file. For example, there was a lot of changes in that from 0.3.2 -> rev 1004, such as the entire game menu strings being renamed.

For now, there are 2 work arounds, namely the use of the AA Launcher as a detector for the Stealth Bomber, despite not being able to choose it as just the stealth bomber (but this is off-set because they are the only stealth/detector units until version 4). As well, the game loading screen has been changed as seen above. I am confident that we will have unique faction loading screens by the time Cult is released, and since we only have one faction for now, the screen is seen on all games. Eventually the cult will get their own personalized screen. The logo for the main menu is the same for now, as well, but that will be changed to include a mixture of UNATF and "cult" units. For now, it's the same as the original, since there is no cult units yet.

I also hope their can be the option to set the color of the text for the loading screen, as the white text is a bit hard to see on the light colors of the UNATF's loading screen (but I refuse to change that screen because it fits their name perfectly).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Nearing Version 3!
Post by: John.d.h on 1 January 2011, 00:39:27
And the new faction logo:
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8900/militarylogo.jpg[/img]
Is the circle a bit jagged?  Other than that, awesome.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Nearing Version 3!
Post by: Gabbe on 1 January 2011, 01:08:31
Military just gets awesome and more awesome ;) good job Omega! (http://www.diskusjon.no/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Nearing Version 3!
Post by: Zoythrus on 1 January 2011, 01:48:25
i fully and wholeheartedly object to the stupid "Stealth Bomber can only be detected by AA" idea. i think that it sucks, because i think that each faction should have one or two detector units, not one for every unit! a detector should detect stealth, all stealth.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Nearing Version 3!
Post by: Omega on 1 January 2011, 07:25:11
Simple: Because an anti air turret detecting a spy doesn't make sense. Every faction has their own ways to detect stealth units, and it will be balanced out and interesting, rather than making the stealth units useless. Hmm...that reminds me: feature request of a "detect radius".

@John, that's the best I got I'm afraid after down scaling it so much. Oh, and for the record, the UN logo is team color, while the UNATF words are true color.

Edit:

Now, we are ready for release! Abet, we will have to wait for GAE 0.3.3 first, because we need a minimum of rev 1048, but those are currently unstable and a bit buggy, so we'll have to wait until 0.3.3 to be released until Military 3 comes out. I'll let out a teaser at a closer date ;).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Gabbe on 13 January 2011, 17:18:47
Do you still have the blends for this mod, can i use it for a free project? You will have credit.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: -Archmage- on 13 January 2011, 19:36:38
He only has a few Gabbe, that's why the animations haven't been improved. :|
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Omega on 13 January 2011, 21:20:13
The other problem, is my method of storage. Rather than mix all the blend files into the necessary files and have to weed those out before distribution, or place them in a complex array of folders that I can't be bothered to maintain, every unit has a folder in a base models folder. Along with every thing else I ever modeled. Nextly, the textures don't link relatively by default, so they appear as purple for most models since I use the desktop as a working space then move the files after.

Plus, as arch said, I'm missing a lot.

Of course, some of you might be aware that I also have a, er ... bad habit ... of making a separate blend file for each animation (particularly useful for more complex models, and saves on reseting the positions in between keyframes, etc).

So yeah, that's a big problem... :( I might be able to salvage some of the Blends though, if you can tolerate the mess.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Gabbe on 14 January 2011, 14:09:02
I can tolerate mess ;) So does that mean i can have the permission?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: ultifd on 15 January 2011, 00:26:23
Wow! I can't wait for this and GAE 0.3.3! Well MG 3.4.0 too, but that isn't really related...  :O
Although I suppose I could try all the new features with git...but right now I'm still learning how to use it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Omega on 15 January 2011, 06:14:19
Wow! I can't wait for this and GAE 0.3.3!
Likewise. I'd use a snapshot version, but I need as much stability as possible. Of course, Silnarm has generously offered to build installers that will have Military in the title bar as well as the custom INI changes without interfering with the config directories (thanks again James!).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: ultifd on 15 January 2011, 21:28:22
Yeah, good thing we have great developers.  :thumbup:
What's the approximate size of Military?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Omega on 15 January 2011, 22:52:36
Well, first of all, this is very approximate. I do not know what extra files 0.3.3 may add, and this here is just a quick 7zip of the shared and doc folders... and it's 45.6MB. :o

That's a large increase, but I added some new units in, some new images, redid some building's textures, and I've changed my mind on the Reactor, I want to do it from scratch... Ideas? (I got time after all. 0.3.3 can't be that soon).
Title: Re: Ability to give Detectors targets
Post by: Zoythrus on 9 February 2011, 00:40:06
but please, dont make it a 1on1 detector system for everything! i have no prob with the AA gun spotting the stealth bomber, but all other detectors should spot the all other cloaked units. let a detector do what it's supposed to do - detect.
Title: Re: Ability to give Detectors targets
Post by: silnarm on 9 February 2011, 00:58:44
but please, dont make it a 1on1 detector system for everything! i have no prob with the AA gun spotting the stealth bomber, but all other detectors should spot the all other cloaked units. let a detector do what it's supposed to do - detect.

Use one cloak type.
Title: Re: Ability to give Detectors targets
Post by: Omega on 9 February 2011, 01:42:44
Besides, Zoy, it wouldn't make sense, as I pointed out, for all detectors to spot all cloaked units. While it might work if we're only talking about magically cloaked units all by the same method, when we're talking about air units to a submarine, they simply aren't detected the same way! For example, let's take a look at Civ4. The submarine and spies were both "cloaked" units. A spy could only be detected by another spy, whereas submarines were detected by other submarines or, I believe it was destroyers.
Title: Re: Ability to give Detectors targets
Post by: Zoythrus on 9 February 2011, 02:16:18
but i dont want to make a detector for absolutely everything! i mean, it seems like half of your army would be the various detectors. now, if it was divided as such: air detects air, ground detects ground, etc; then i would have no problem (that means ONE detector that finds all cloaked ground units!)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Omega on 9 February 2011, 06:18:48
There's only going to be a tiny handful of units that can use stealth anyway. Though, the detector-cloaking relationship helps balance out the factions and ensure the use of some units. For example, if you don't build an AA Launcher, your base can be spied on by the stealth bomber. Sure, you can take out air units fair enough without it, but you won't be able to detect a stealth bomber in stealth mode. All air units will certainly be detected by the AA launcher for UNATF and an undecided alternative for the cult (both need their own way to detect units, as it's important that units are detectable by at least something). Land units have not been decided yet, partially because of the cloaking restriction, though most likely a sniper style unit will have a cloaking ability. The Cult is largely undecided still (and you still are welcome to give ideas and opinions while I am busy with the Glest Guide, which I want to finish before I start version 4 (that is, the cult) of Military).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Zoythrus on 25 February 2011, 00:20:50
so.....are you still making this, Omega? i'd like to see it done....
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: ultifd on 25 February 2011, 00:23:49
I'm pretty sure he's just waiting for 0.4...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: ElimiNator on 25 February 2011, 06:14:44
so.....are you still making this, Omega? i'd like to see it done....
Did you read the topic title?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Zoythrus on 25 February 2011, 07:03:07
i wasnt too sure if that's when he was going to release it, or when he shall resume work on it.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Omega on 25 February 2011, 07:44:17
i wasnt too sure if that's when he was going to release it, or when he shall resume work on it.
It's very much still in development. Just kinda...waiting. It requires a stabler build than we have at the moment. 0.3.2 has some bugs that simply won't do, and I hear the git-master is unstable as well. I'm just waiting for the next version (if there is one before the merger) or at least a stable edition (or stable enough). I do plan to add bump maps though too, and not entirely sure if those are in this version...?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: ElimiNator on 25 February 2011, 16:58:05
Yes, there should be one more release before the merger. Of GAE and MG.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Omega on 25 February 2011, 23:39:20
Well, in the mailing lists, devs were recommended to finish what they had started, so hopefully that will mean one final release of GAE. I fully expect Military 4 to be for Glest 4! :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Zoythrus on 26 February 2011, 00:12:47
well, lets discuss the Cult more:

land detector: attack dog, able to sniff out cloaked troops like no one's business.

air detector: maybe a radar/sonar tower? it would have no attack, but could detect air/water units. so, it's a tradeoff, it cant attack, but it allows other units to attack cloaked air and water units.

cloaked troops: most of them (possibly through and upgrade). the Cult should be more stealth driven, not brute force driven. this means that most units should be cloaked in some way or another. but the perma-cloaked units would be the Combine soldier and mutant Commando. maybe if you put a Commando or Combine soldier into the 2-seat autogyro then it can gain stealth and an attack (maybe one unit turns it into a bomber, and the other into an air superiority fighter. also, keep in mind that this idea requires more coding). this gives them a stealthy air unit.

Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: wyvern on 26 February 2011, 01:55:08
maybe a bomb dog with explosives strapped to it, and as for stealth units, maybe a sapper/tunneler, digs under enemy units and then blows up. Or tunnels in the style of what the japanese and vietnamese made, invisible other then to stealth detection units and able to swiftly transport troops between two points
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: ultifd on 26 February 2011, 01:58:37
I just noticed this... the Military logo on your Glest Guide still points to the 100mb site. Perhaps you should update  the logo too? Also, if you're going to endorse Firefox, maybe try to put it to the right of the logo. Also, you should update the copyright year too.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: Omega on 26 February 2011, 19:17:16
I just noticed this... the Military logo on your Glest Guide still points to the 100mb site. Perhaps you should update  the logo too? Also, if you're going to endorse Firefox, maybe try to put it to the right of the logo. Also, you should update the copyright year too.
Thanks for spotting that. The site is being completely redone with the next Glest Guide release. The firefox ad will be completely removed (it was buggy anyway).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
Post by: Zoythrus on 27 February 2011, 02:53:47
maybe a bomb dog with explosives strapped to it, and as for stealth units, maybe a sapper/tunneler, digs under enemy units and then blows up. Or tunnels in the style of what the japanese and vietnamese made, invisible other then to stealth detection units and able to swiftly transport troops between two points

c'mon man, we dont want to blow up any dogs!

and about the trenches, this is like, 2050, trenches are a thing of the past.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: wyvern on 27 February 2011, 04:46:20
trenches are certainly not a thing of the past and never will be, its a way for infantry to gain some defense against their counterparts no matter how technologically advanced
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: Zoythrus on 27 February 2011, 04:51:47
well, we cant put guys in trenches yet, nor can we have instant transportation like the Zerg's Nydus Canal...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: Omega on 27 February 2011, 14:58:48
well, we cant put guys in trenches yet, nor can we have instant transportation like the Zerg's Nydus Canal...
^ This is true. And instant transportation could be very overpowered, particularly if you place one behind an opponents base.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: wyvern on 27 February 2011, 16:19:28
I mean you'd have to have two tunnel exits placed and each would have to be built above ground so unless your enemy is really dumb, theres no way you could rush in, place an exit and keep it from getting destroyed.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: Ishmaru on 27 February 2011, 20:14:47
I mean you'd have to have two tunnel exits placed and each would have to be built above ground so unless your enemy is really dumb, theres no way you could rush in, place an exit and keep it from getting destroyed.
   

Sounds like GLA Tunnel networks form C&C Generals. :P

As for trenches an idea would be to have infantry combat units morph into a trench defense structure. or a stationary version of itself like one surrounded by sandbags. similar to C&C 3 or Red Alert 2.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: wyvern on 27 February 2011, 22:12:13
I mean you'd have to have two tunnel exits placed and each would have to be built above ground so unless your enemy is really dumb, theres no way you could rush in, place an exit and keep it from getting destroyed.
   

Sounds like GLA Tunnel networks form C&C Generals. :P

As for trenches an idea would be to have infantry combat units morph into a trench defense structure. or a stationary version of itself like one surrounded by sandbags. similar to C&C 3 or Red Alert 2.
I didn't realize that, I know the tunnel feature is in BFME 2
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: Omega on 26 March 2011, 06:40:24
Mwhaha! I did it! The full documentation of Military is now online on the wiki: https://docs.megaglest.org/Military

Every unit, building, upgrade and more has its own page. There's a page for the attack and armor types, along with a convenient table illustrating their multipliers, a page listing the scenarios (missions), one for each resource... There's a navbox at the bottom of *each* page, and all pages are categorized appropriately. A fine job, if I may say so myself. Military: First mod to have full documentation on the Wiki. :D
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: wyvern on 26 March 2011, 22:18:19
I recently looked through the military factions equipment and three ideas popped up, 1-possibly replace the rpg trooper with someone armed with a javelin or LAW missile launcher since the rpg is usually associated with terrorists it could be given to the cult, 2-give the APC an ability to upgrade into a IFV which would be an APC with an automatic cannon and possibly a one-shot rocket mounted over the cannon, something like the russian BMP is what I have in mind only with a 30mm automatic cannon instead of the heavier equipment, otherwise it would retain all abilities of the APC, 3-I'm not sure if this has already been done but the APC and if ever added the IFV- could be amphibious vehicles, capable of making a quick morph to swim across water but with a large speed penalty, when in the water mode, they could still shoot and fight as normal.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: Omega on 27 March 2011, 01:26:03
1-possibly replace the rpg trooper with someone armed with a javelin or LAW missile launcher since the rpg is usually associated with terrorists it could be given to the cult
Support. And while I'm at it, perhaps I could just break it into two units: One anti air and one anti tank (would make more sense too).

2-give the APC an ability to upgrade into a IFV which would be an APC with an automatic cannon and possibly a one-shot rocket mounted over the cannon, something like the russian BMP is what I have in mind only with a 30mm automatic cannon instead of the heavier equipment, otherwise it would retain all abilities of the APC
Hmm, yes, that does seem pretty cool... And:

3-I'm not sure if this has already been done but the APC and if ever added the IFV- could be amphibious vehicles, capable of making a quick morph to swim across water but with a large speed penalty, when in the water mode, they could still shoot and fight as normal.
If I were to add amphibious abilities, I'd prefer to give it to just the IFV simply so that it has another advantage of morphing. Only thing I worry about would be the fact that the Transport Ship could get its position undermined. Of course, it would be the only thing able to transport larger vehicle units, but that could end up downplaying the larger units in general. Would need some experimenting. Largest problem I think is the fact that we can't change the move speed based on the field yet, and no sense adding a feature request yet with a merger to come (speaking of the merger, that will make a mess out of merging all the forum categories... I would assume we'd merge the Feature request subcategories into one main category, though not sure what we'd do about the old GAE/MG topics).

At any rate, I don't plan to add any of these in to this version. Look for them in version 4, in the distant future. :o
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: wyvern on 27 March 2011, 03:09:49
ok, I can wait ;), its a great mod and can only get better :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: Zoythrus on 16 May 2011, 03:11:09
hey, Omega, the 4.0 beta is out! is that good enough for a release of Military?

(also, what happened to those headshots i gave you? did you ever use them?)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: ultifd on 16 May 2011, 04:53:33
Yeah, just post a beta.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
Post by: Omega on 16 May 2011, 04:56:10
hey, Omega, the 4.0 beta is out! is that good enough for a release of Military?
I'm trying to figure out how the widgets work, though the lack of documentation stifles imagination. :P

In all honesty, I'm so busy at the moment with tons of school work, several major projects going on, many upcoming tests, as well as the fact that final exams are looming closely by. I wouldn't expect to see the next version until the summer.

As for the headshots, they will wait until UNATF is perfected. Only then, will I move on to the "cult" faction. Name suggestions for the faction and its units still accepted.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 18 June 2011, 06:13:26
As I expect to do much more development in the upcoming summer, I also wish to rename all the units to be a bit more precise. For example, the stealth bomber will become the B-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_B-2_Spirit). As well, when you want to produce, say, a marine, you'll be given a choice of a few weapons. This will be the same for all infantry in UNATF. Instead of entirely new units, there'll be a few "ranks" of units that can have different weapons. If I recall, there is a way to make a building like submenu for regular produce commands, and that's what would be used for this.

So why did I post this here? Well, it's a lot more than just a "hey, thought I'd let you know", but rather, I want your help! I want your ideas and suggestions on names for units, weapons, etc. As well, what weapons should be available for different unit classes (which are also yet unnamed). Images of all the units are available on the wiki, on their own unit pages: https://docs.megaglest.org/UNATF

This is dominantly a naming thing, but the whole "what produces what" and unit structure will be modified as a result. As well, some defunct units such as the flamethrower would be replaced, for example, by one of the ranks of base units with a flamethrower weapon choice. This is all for the UNATF faction, as I want it perfected out more before I move on to the (still unnamed) cult. I don't even know the names of most of the weapons that the current units carry, so the help of a more military-minded user is drastically needed. Many of the weapons will be brought more "up-to-date" as well, by replacing them with more modern alternatives.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 20 June 2011, 19:27:41
I'd say the standard weapon for infantry and marines should be the M-16 assault rifle, possibly, you could add a grenade launcher attachment as an upgrade, I'll have to look up the name of that though. I wouldn't include either RPG's or AK's since that is usually associated with rebels/terrorists. So the RPG trooper should be divided into a soldier with a LAW against tanks and a Javelin against aircraft. Some sort of SMG for the medic would be nice, or no weapons at all to make him realistic :| (medics can't fight or be shot at). Their could be a LMG trooper with a M60/M249 LMG to give longer ranged rapid fire support. I'd drop the flamethrower since those have mostly been dropped in favor of precision guided munitions(could go to the cult though). Their could be a lieutenant soldier who has a pistol and gives perks to surrounding troops. I'm also not sure if you want to keep the baton soldier. For the AA rockets, maybe patriot missile system or something. Shotgunner could have a mossberg 500 and be a marine only soldier. your tank looks like an M1a1 Abrams and the APC looks like an m113(thats where the Amphibious idea came from). The heli could be an AH-64 Apache. I'd change the Infantry helmet, it looks like what the French war 60 years ago in WWII. The infantry rifle looks like its bolt action so that really needs a replacement with the M-16. The spec op has an MP-5 so he should be fine. The AK for the marine should be switched for the M-16 as well, possibly with the grenade attachment. The spec op could also be upgraded with flash bang grenades that do no damage but stun the enemy(not sure if this is possible). The Humvee shouldn't have a name change but the weapon should be a .50 cal or lighter, not a minigun, it could also have a TOW missile upgrade. The Abrams should have a coax mg(maybe) of 7.62mm calibre and a M256 Smooth bore cannon. Right now I'm running out of time but I'll post more later today. These are just minor comments
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Ishmaru on 20 June 2011, 20:57:43
Defiantly get rid of baton solder, really does not fit with the whole future war idea.

If you are changing the tech tree maybe changing unit dependencies, for example dont understand why i need a special ops to have a medic, or a humvee to have a tank. I like the idea though to have infantry morph to more advanced classes.

I also agree with Wyvern with basic infantry looking like ww2, their gun looks like a bolt action rifle as well.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: ultifd on 20 June 2011, 21:00:05
I still think you should release a sneak peek of Military, as it seems to be improved a lot. A lot of changes, right? I'd love to test it with Git Master...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 20 June 2011, 21:42:12
Wow, thanks Wyvern! That's exactly what I was looking for, and I look forward to you expanding on that when you get the time.

Defiantly get rid of baton solder, really does not fit with the whole future war idea.
Yeah, I agree. The baton soldier wasn't an original unit, but rather a stem from a request to have a melee unit. Now that there is a flamethrower and shotgunner (working names ;D), which have short range attacks, they are a suitable replacement for a true melee unit.

If you are changing the tech tree maybe changing unit dependencies, for example dont understand why i need a special ops to have a medic, or a humvee to have a tank. I like the idea though to have infantry morph to more advanced classes.
Good logic. That was originally a (poor?) attempt to add some hierarchy by ensuring that the user would have to branch out more, but with the next version, I'm thinking of a free-er hierarchy of units, and balancing the units pros and cons to give a reason to branch out. Some of the upgrades may have to be changed as well, and more might be there to allow the creation of these "better" weapons.

I still think you should release a sneak peek of Military, as it seems to be improved a lot. A lot of changes, right? I'd love to test it with Git Master...
While I see your point, I am simply not happy with how it looks at the moment, and want to improve on this. However, if you'd look around the GAE board, you'll find a snapshot I uploaded so there was an addon available to test. Just make sure you download the one Silnarm uploaded slightly after, as the one I uploaded is not git-master compatible. Please bear in mind it's just a snapshot, is not finished, may be buggy, and has some incomplete stuff still. Also, the git-master was/is having some addon troubles and as a result, the menu model and language files are not working :(.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: ultifd on 20 June 2011, 22:24:16
I still think you should release a sneak peek of Military, as it seems to be improved a lot. A lot of changes, right? I'd love to test it with Git Master...
While I see your point, I am simply not happy with how it looks at the moment, and want to improve on this. However, if you'd look around the GAE board, you'll find a snapshot I uploaded so there was an addon available to test. Just make sure you download the one Silnarm uploaded slightly after, as the one I uploaded is not git-master compatible. Please bear in mind it's just a snapshot, is not finished, may be buggy, and has some incomplete stuff still. Also, the git-master was/is having some addon troubles and as a result, the menu model and language files are not working :(.
Do you mean this one? http://sourceforge.net/projects/glestae/files/military/military3-beta.zip/download
Oh. Well, I'm sure someday it'll be fixed.  :)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 20 June 2011, 22:26:33
Do you mean this one? http://sourceforge.net/projects/glestae/files/military/military3-beta.zip/download
Aye, that be the one, mateys.

Try not to judge too much on that, it's a bit dated.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 21 June 2011, 00:36:39
Ok, I'm back, among other suggestions is getting an IFV like the Warrior/Bradley/BMP, This could have some sort of automatic or light cannon and a small turret, with a possible above gun rocket mount(always thought it looked cool on the BMP), Another suggestion could be a light tank like the Sheridan, which would be capable of infantry support and possibly be airliftable.
My next idea was adding a chinook, it could carry light guns, infantry, and maybe/unrealistically, the Sheridan. Also, if you want to keep with the UNATF theme, I think the troops should be a mix of nations, so not necessarily all american(L85/Famas assault rifles for example, or foreign vehicles/helicopters).

I still insist the A-10 should be included.

On second thought, you could keep the flamethrower but make it replaceable with a precision flame missile(RPO?)late game or precision missile truck.

A mortar could be included possibly the M252 used by the US.

The howitzer could be the L118 from Britain.

With the stationary gatling gun, I'd trade that for a normal MG of your choice, dug in inside a machinegun pit(could be M60,M249,M2 or any other type)

If you really want the minigun, I think a good idea would be to make a river boat with the minigun and capacity for two passengers or something of the sort.

I'd give the transport AA guns, or make it upgradeable to an amphibious assault ship like the Wasp or Tarawa class, which could launch harriers and carry troops while at the same time having limited defensive capabilities(possibly add a lynx patrol copter)

Possibly, it could be possible to have the army soldier armed with the M-79, which could be upgraded to a barrel attached M203 grenade launcher for a marine. Main difference would be the fact that the M203 allows decent rapid fire defense while the "Blooper" trooper would be vulnerable to close up infantry.

I definitely think the spec ops sniper ability should be given to a dedicated sniper who has an extremely efficient cloaking ghillie suit and an M-82 or M-40.

Other ideas include a radar truck, flame M132, mortar M113 or other weapons on that chassis.

If you want I'll come up with more and am willing to help do minor models to help
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 21 June 2011, 03:25:34
Wyvern, those are all great ideas, but keep in mind, that's a lot for Omega to handle! (not to mention the players!)

ideas of mine:

The UNATF need a detector unit, so why not an UAV? it would detect all stealth units except for the stealth bomber (which should decloak when it attacks, so that other units can have some way of countering it w/o a AA turret)

i agree with Wyvern's idea of a dedicated sniper. it should be a morph of the spec op. while the spec op could be cloaked when moving and standing still, the sniper should be perma-cloaked. the downside? only infantry should fear the sniper, for he sucks vs everything else (unlike the spec op, which is good against multiple unit types).

the gatling gun should be a MG nest (possibly even make it look similar to the GLA Stinger Sites, so that it doesnt have to turn and look odd)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 21 June 2011, 06:12:03
Wow, thanks again, both of you. While hard to comment when I know so little about these weapons overall, I will certainly look into them and try and implement many of them, if not all.

If you really want the minigun, I think a good idea would be to make a river boat with the minigun and capacity for two passengers or something of the sort.
I think I may save a river boat for the cult faction. I have a great idea in the back of my head, kinda like this:
(click to show/hide)
The cult would be a dirty faction, using things that are banned by international law, such as dirty bombs, chemical and biological weapons, etc, as well as things that are "frowned on" today, like napalm.

On second thought, you could keep the flamethrower but make it replaceable with a precision flame missile(RPO?)late game or precision missile truck.
Hmm, is this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M202A1_FLASH) what that would be? What exactly is a precision flame missile (information would be needed to create a realistic projectile).

I'd give the transport AA guns, or make it upgradeable to an amphibious assault ship like the Wasp or Tarawa class, which could launch harriers and carry troops while at the same time having limited defensive capabilities(possibly add a lynx patrol copter)
Assuming you mean the Transport Ship, I'm thinking the default version might be unarmed, more akin to a super tanker than a military ship, but perhaps an upgrade to an armed version? An aircraft carrier does sound interesting, especially if it is able to produce units itself.

I definitely think the spec ops sniper ability should be given to a dedicated sniper who has an extremely efficient cloaking ghillie suit and an M-82 or M-40.
Agreed. For the special op, I want to completely do away with its current weapon in favor of something more realistic. One weapon choice would certainly be a sniper rifle of some sort. For cloaking, I'm thinking a unit that has no detector for it, and can only be found by its decloaking on attack. As for the weapon, doing some wikipedia-ing, the M-82 seems to be the most popular choice, but what about its still-in-development sequel, the Barret XM500? Since this takes place in the future, and the XM500 is supposedly going to replace the M-82, it may be the more practical choice.

If you want I'll come up with more and am willing to help do minor models to help
You're welcome to come up with as many ideas as you want. Obviously, we'd only be able to use so many, but more choices mean we can pick the best of them. For the most part, though, this is plenty. I can handle the major models, like our friendly soldiers, but if you want to help with low-poly(ish) models of the weapons, that would be a great asset and I would be very thankful for the help! They don't have to be extremely detailed either, since we're going to be quite zoomed out, and we have to keep poly count at a reasonable amount anyway, but as long as it resembles the weapon to at least a recognizable degree, it's golden. The name of the weapon would be visible when choosing which branch of unit you wish you produce anyway.

The UNATF need a detector unit, so why not an UAV? it would detect all stealth units except for the stealth bomber (which should decloak when it attacks, so that other units can have some way of countering it w/o a AA turret)
The cult is getting a UAV, so not sure if UNATF should get one too. Since the stealth bomber can be detected by the AA Launcher, and the Sniper will purposely not have a detector, I think it should be fine until we see what stealth units the cult will get. Also, the stealth bomber already decloaks when attacking, though, if the opponent has no AA Launcher, it makes a great spy, as it can camp the foe safely above, has a large sight radius, and is the best choice to use when you need to target an opponent for the nuke special attack. Oh, perhaps the nukes should be renamed minutemen or something?

the gatling gun should be a MG nest (possibly even make it look similar to the GLA Stinger Sites, so that it doesnt have to turn and look odd)
Not entirely sure what that is, but if it's what I think it is (based on a google search) from C&C, then it would still look odd when firing in any direction. I tried using a turret nest before, and it just didn't look good. Perhaps a single soldier on the ground with a more modern machine gun would do better.

Thanks again for all the information.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: John.d.h on 21 June 2011, 06:42:19
In my opinion, the UAV is much more fitting for the UN than the Cult.  What does the cult care if they lose a pilot when their aircraft gets shot down?  It's all in the name of [cause /].  Plus, that's advanced military technology that I wouldn't really expect them to have access to.  The UN, on the other hand, would be all about the UAVs.  The US sure uses them extensively.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 21 June 2011, 06:49:31
i will have to disagree with the idea of the sniper not having a detector. the concept that he can only be found when attacking is the exact opposite of what a sniper is trained to do. i think he should uncloak only when found, not shooting (quite counter-productive if you think of it).

and, when did the Cult get UAV's? seems too high-tech and "clean" for them. they wouldnt have the resources to acquire such advanced technology. i thought we agreed that they got Attack Dogs that served the same function (land unit detection, and that means snipers too).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: John.d.h on 21 June 2011, 06:55:37
Didn't we have an old list of ideas we came up with somewhere?  I seem to remember mapping out most of the Cult's tech tree.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 21 June 2011, 14:01:00
Possibly, I'm not really sure though and that was before the new version came out I think? Either way the UAV is way too much for the cult, though I think they could get a refurbished "militarized" Cessna or piper cub spotter plane. I think the cult should be more based on rebels/terrorists of today and whacko made up weapons compared to the UNATF which would have the technology of today.

I agree about your sniper rifle idea since this does, after all, take place 10-20 years from now.

About the flame rocket, the RPO's the soviet version and the M202's what the americans had, I saw a picture of a truck based weapon somewhere though, I'll see if I can find it again.

I agree about the nest thing, Its just that the current gunner looks very unrealistic and I've seen very few, if any, modern vehicles, let alone troops with miniguns that are not ship/aircraft mounted.

With the Cult I'd suggest cheap early on weapons like punji sticks, one shot crossbow traps, rebels with bolt action rifles(upgradeable to AK's/RPG's for a price) and so on. This would then slowly advance to more modern and the illegal technology in late game. With vehicles, the technical is definitely one of them, possibly with a recoilless gun upgrade to make it dangerous to light armor. I'd also make something like stolen tech as resources, which allows you to produce(to a limited degree) some captured vehicles like APC's and Humvees with various slogans/markings on them.

Otherwise, i know the ideas were a lot but as I said, they're just ideas that don't have to be used



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOS-1
Found both of the things I was looking for, heres precision fire rockets on a tank
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-30_Smerch
and heres the Smerch aka the rockets on a truck
otherwise, if you want lots of various ideas, look through thermobaric weapons on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon
ok, that'll be all for now

Edit by Omega: Double post merge
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 21 June 2011, 15:28:55
Didn't we have an old list of ideas we came up with somewhere?  I seem to remember mapping out most of the Cult's tech tree.

yes, yes we did, look about 10 pages back (i think)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 21 June 2011, 15:37:07
Ok, Military can get the UAV, but the cult I had in mind is a well funded terrorist organization which has strong technology and no moral limitation, and will happily use chemical, radiational, and biological weapons. In this case here, they would also have some type of "zombie" biological agent, which is their biggest threat. Let's not get too into the cult though now, as the focus is to perfect the UNATF first.

So, UAV, what kind, what name, what capabilities? Doing some research, the MQ-1C Grey Eagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQ-1C_Warrior), seems like the best choice. It can drop bombs and fire hellfire missiles.

I agree about the nest thing, Its just that the current gunner looks very unrealistic and I've seen very few, if any, modern vehicles, let alone troops with miniguns that are not ship/aircraft mounted.
Ok, what to use then exactly?

I'm thinking I'll remove the flame thrower completely and give one of the weapon classes an RPO option.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 21 June 2011, 15:51:42
Quote
Doing some research, the MQ-1C Grey Eagle, seems like the best choice. It can drop bombs and fire hellfire missiles.
Sounds good :thumbup:

For the mg I'd use the M2 .50cal or the M249, or the FN MAG.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 21 June 2011, 17:22:52
well, why not have an upgradeable defense system? like, when you built an MG turret, it would start out similarly to what it is now. but as your tech level increases, you can morph that gun into either a mounted GAU-8 Avenger or Patriot missile system (for anti-inf/tanks and aircraft respectively). then, late game, you can upgrade those defenses into even stronger versions of themselves (so the Avenger turret can become a stronger anti-inf/tank only, maybe lasers?). somewhat OT: i assume that these turrets are unmanned, sentry turrets (so that you cant just snipe/poison the operator).

about the Grey Eagle, it should only fire Hellfire missiles for an anti-tank role. so, you have the Comanche for anti-inf, Eagle for anti-tank, and B-2 Spirit for anti-structure. (or we could all have UAV versions of this stuff, because the UNATF is smart enough to keep their pilots in an underground bunker somewhere, and also it would make the aircraft smaller and better looking)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 21 June 2011, 17:44:44
well, why not have an upgradeable defense system? like, when you built an MG turret, it would start out similarly to what it is now. but as your tech level increases, you can morph that gun into either a mounted GAU-8 Avenger or Patriot missile system (for anti-inf/tanks and aircraft respectively). then, late game, you can upgrade those defenses into even stronger versions of themselves (so the Avenger turret can become a stronger anti-inf/tank only, maybe lasers?). somewhat OT: i assume that these turrets are unmanned, sentry turrets (so that you cant just snipe/poison the operator).

about the Grey Eagle, it should only fire Hellfire missiles for an anti-tank role. so, you have the Comanche for anti-inf, Eagle for anti-tank, and B-2 Spirit for anti-structure. (or we could all have UAV versions of this stuff, because the UNATF is smart enough to keep their pilots in an underground bunker somewhere, and also it would make the aircraft smaller and better looking)

i disagree with making all the stuff UAV but agree with the defense tiers, though not necessarily lasers
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 21 June 2011, 17:54:04
well, why not have an upgradeable defense system? like, when you built an MG turret, it would start out similarly to what it is now. but as your tech level increases, you can morph that gun into either a mounted GAU-8 Avenger or Patriot missile system (for anti-inf/tanks and aircraft respectively). then, late game, you can upgrade those defenses into even stronger versions of themselves (so the Avenger turret can become a stronger anti-inf/tank only, maybe lasers?). somewhat OT: i assume that these turrets are unmanned, sentry turrets (so that you cant just snipe/poison the operator).

about the Grey Eagle, it should only fire Hellfire missiles for an anti-tank role. so, you have the Comanche for anti-inf, Eagle for anti-tank, and B-2 Spirit for anti-structure. (or we could all have UAV versions of this stuff, because the UNATF is smart enough to keep their pilots in an underground bunker somewhere, and also it would make the aircraft smaller and better looking)

i disagree with making all the stuff UAV but agree with the defense tiers, though not necessarily lasers

why do you disagree with making it all UAV? that's the way that aircraft are evolving, and if the mod is 10 years in the future, it just makes sense.

you keep forgetting that this is supposed to be a somewhat futuristic game (but realistically futuristic, of course). since we have weak laser tech now, it would makes sense if in 10 years lasers are much more advanced (maybe a laser trooper, Omega?).

here's an idea that i posted a while ago - a robotic trooper (instead of an exo-suit). Seeing as the UNATF are dedicated to using high-tech stuff, a robo-trooper just sounds like it'd fit. it would be an elite unit (immunity to toxins) and would be produced from a factory, but still be counted as inf (maybe this should have a laser, like a weaker version of the laser turret). about the immunity to toxins, what would set it apart from all other "elite" units (Spec Ops, Sniper, Commando, Combine soldier guy) is that instead of being resistant to the lasting effects of toxins as well as taking much less damage from toxic attacks, the robotic soldier would be fully and completely immune to toxins. that means all toxic attacks do 0 damage - always. now, i know that 0 damage is impossible right now, but it wont be eventually.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 21 June 2011, 23:49:06
I think I would just add a single UAV, keeping the helicopter (I wonder how well an air unit would work as a transport, if at all)

I'm not entirely sure about robots. A bit cheesy, really. As well, I was thinking about redefining the timeline of the faction to about, oh, 20 or so years in the future, based on their technology. If it's too far, these weapons will seem primitive.

Also, the "Military" name is a bit dated. I think the techtree needs a new name. A few possible ideas are "Red Hour", "Operation Apocalypse", "Apocalyptic Dawn", "Mutual Destruction", "Assured Destruction", etc... It should reflect how there will eventually be the opposing cult faction. At any rate, feel free to suggest any name, or comment on one.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 21 June 2011, 23:59:35
well, about the robots, we could just say that it's highly experimental technology, and ingame would be a late game unit because of it. it would require a bit of research before you can field it. this keeps it from being cheesy (and this robot needs to look cool!)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: -Archmage- on 22 June 2011, 00:03:46
Omega, since it's the 'UNATF', shouldn't they be more specialized? You've got infantry and tanks and basically the standard military stuff... Also, being 20 years in the future, maybe they could use compression guns for the most part? Compression guns would make less sound than normal guns so that would fit in with the high level task force feel I think.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 22 June 2011, 01:08:32
Also, being 20 years in the future, maybe they could use compression guns for the most part? Compression guns would make less sound than normal guns so that would fit in with the high level task force feel I think.
Would that affect it much though?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 22 June 2011, 01:12:20
You could have mine detonation robots, like what they have now adays as a scout vehicle. About UNATF, I always viewed that as our current UN military, which is anything but specialized and downright incompetent at times, especially without US support so I don't think they should be all that specialized.

Edit:
What do you mean by compression gun, air or Co2 gun, compressed bore gun or what
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: -Archmage- on 22 June 2011, 05:53:41
Quote
You could have mine detonation robots, like what they have now adays as a scout vehicle. About UNATF, I always viewed that as our current UN military, which is anything but specialized and downright incompetent at times, especially without US support so I don't think they should be all that specialized.

This ain't UNM, this is UNATF(aka Omega's lil section 31). ;) Plus it's 20 years in the future...

Compression.....probably just plain air. :P
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 22 June 2011, 06:13:16
About UNATF, I always viewed that as our current UN military, which is anything but specialized and downright incompetent at times, especially without US support so I don't think they should be all that specialized.
Well, this is the future. In this future, I applied a few radical changes to the world. The European union is one country, the world uses a single currency, and nearly all countries are a part of the UN. The UN Security Council no longer has veto power, and the UN has been reformed to have more value in peace keeping. Organizations like NATO have been disolved in favor of this UN military. No countries really fight alone any more, the UN decides almost all conflict members will participate in. However, you'll also have to note this is not our main force, but rather the UNATF, a specialized sector of the UN Military which is highly trained and consists of many of the best soldiers from countries around the world, using technology from various member states (thus why a Russian RPO, a German tank, a British gun, and an American Missile Launcher can all co-exist in the same task force).

However, our opposing faction, the cult, does not come from any sole country either. It is a collection of terrorists who do not agree with the increasingly democratic movement of the world, wanting to further their own agenda. Funded by secretive supporters, they have access to comparable weaponry, and worse: they are not limited by the UN's rules, which now outlaw most weapons of mass destruction, barring Nukes, which are the sole remainder for the concept of balancing the few countries that are not UN members, but are now nuclear armed. The cult's scientists, which include some very effective scientists, since most other countries stopped all chemical and biological research programs, have managed to create a neurotoxin which brainwashes victims, turning them into blood thirsty cannibals with no regard for life and no feelings of pain (or anything else for that matter). Essentially, they just started a zombie apocalypse. But why is the cult opposing the rest of the world? They believe that the world has been brainwashed by "western" ideals, and believe the only way to solve this is to destroy the world and start anew. Kill everyone but a few, repopulate the world, and rebuild it their way.

Hopefully that explains the back story well enough. Yes, a lot has happened in these 20 or so years (the year will never be directly mentioned in scenarios now, instead opting for military style timing and dating for determining the "time" into a mission). And yeah, UNATF is really quite like Star Treck's Section 31, but the difference is that it does have rules it has to follow, but those rules are to protect the civilians. After all, the UNATF is the "good guys" while the cult is the "bad guys". Of course, you could play as either (who didn't secretly enjoy the airport scene of MW2 anyway?).

I am personally leaning towards "Apocalyptic Dawn" as the name for the techtree, unless anyone else has better ideas or a reason to oppose.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 22 June 2011, 16:48:46
Honestly, I can hardly imagine the UN or NATO being much of a force in 20-30 years or that Russia/China would help in any way, or Europe becoming one country due to all the current problems, I suppose it is a possible future and is after all, up to you to decide
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 22 June 2011, 16:56:39
Honestly, I can hardly imagine the UN or NATO being much of a force in 20-30 years or that Russia/China would help in any way, or Europe becoming one country due to all the current problems, I suppose it is a possible future and is after all, up to you to decide

It's an alternate universe where the nations get along. happy now, Wyvern?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 22 June 2011, 17:09:36
Yep
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 22 June 2011, 17:54:41
Behold my (somewhat) utopian future.

Radical changes and civilian uprisings have swept communism out of China, North Korea, and Cuba. A more united UN voted to remove the veto power of the UNSC and began the second Vietnam war after a leadership change lead to brutal regime started, prompting UN action to protect the civilians. This expanded and ended in a UN victory, placing democratic governments in Laos and Vietnam. The Afghanistan war effort was eventually abandoned to become a training method, and while the Afghan police have grown in abilities, the middle east is still rather unstable, being the home to several extremist factions, in which some have merged to form our Cult.

Welcome to our backstory. They say technology grows exponentially. So does our society. What was an enemy one day is your friend the next (think, eg, how France and Russia were at war with each other during the Napoleon wars, yet Russia fought on France's side for the beginning of the first world war). No, this is probably not how our world will end up, this is just the wonderful backstory of Apocalyptic Dawn.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Gabbe on 23 June 2011, 01:21:06
The corrupt European Union is trying to remove NATO and make EU a millitary union aswell, you might want to include this in your background story somehow aswell. And what happened to the nukes in NK?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wciow on 23 June 2011, 01:42:20
The corrupt European Union is trying to remove NATO and make EU a millitary union aswell, you might want to include this in your background story somehow aswell. And what happened to the nukes in NK?

This is getting slightly off topic but the EU is not trying to remove NATO, almost every european country is a member of NATO. The EU is already a military union with a common military policy and an "army" under the direct control of the european parliment called the European Battle Group. However member states are still allowed to act alone if they want to. If any EU country was actually invaded by a foriegn country then it would lead to all EU nations joining in, but then that was the founding principal of the EU, to stop wars in Europe. I suppose you dont know this stuff because you are from a country that is too pretentious to actually join in with Europe.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 23 June 2011, 02:42:04
This is just a fantasy back story...

The corrupt European Union is trying to remove NATO and make EU a millitary union aswell, you might want to include this in your background story somehow aswell.
Not here. You forget, there is no NATO any more (read above posts by yours truly). The UN is one of the only governing force, and the EU is part of it, and most certainly not corrupt. In fact, in this story, the EU, since it is all one unified country (and larger than the current EU too), is stronger than USA. In fact, it's the world' biggest superpower. Oh, and yeah, Norway is a part of it.

And what happened to the nukes in NK?
All ours now. Or at, I think they are... By god, I hope none of the cult have got their hands on a nuke... ;) Speaking of nukes, they're used a lot more. The B-2 Spirit can drop a B-83 Nuclear Bomb (just like its real life equivalent). Naturally, it's nowhere near as powerful as our ICBM (the LGM-30G Minuteman) here, as real life explosive power is not copied into the game (otherwise, you'd just have to launch one nuke and you'll destroy both yourself and your foe instantly).

And behold, the techtree map! This isn't necessarily the final version, so please feel free to comment. Please note that the upgrades main purpose is to ensure you can't use the "end game" units at the start of the game, so they don't necessarily make sense (eg: researching cruise missiles 20 years in the future? We've had them for more than that). As well, power is a relative thing. Generally, the later game units are stronger than earlier game units, but if we put in some strengths and weaknesses, such as the Infantry AT4 compared to the Special Op M203, the former is usually weaker, being an infantry class soldier, but against tanks, the effectiveness of the AT4 is unmatched by the M203. Oh, and yes, it is big. It is very big. Don't think we'll add any more to it, though don't think we'll take anything away either. If you got any more bright ideas, focus them towards the cult.

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4392/militarymap.th.jpg) (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4392/militarymap.jpg)

Proper unit descriptions will be in the tool tips so those who don't know their guns aren't left out.


Just a side note because my spidy-senses are tingling, anyone who tries to start a debate on whether or not Norway should be in the EU will have their post removed.

Edit: My spidy-sense is correct. Ninja'd, and a post removed. Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 23 June 2011, 03:13:22
so, i see that you didnt go with the turret upgrade system that we discussed...

i have no problem with a howitzer or a mortar, but where's the anti-infantry weapon? it needs some sort of minigun or something, arties are too slow for infantry
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 23 June 2011, 04:38:36
so, i see that you didnt go with the turret upgrade system that we discussed...
Which one? The stun one I didn't go with, just too many units. The turrets don't have a morph because I couldn't think of what to morph it into.

i have no problem with a howitzer or a mortar, but where's the anti-infantry weapon? it needs some sort of minigun or something, arties are too slow for infantry
The machine gun turret was the old anti-infantry weapon, but the current idea is a portable machine gun instead. Look for our friendly soldiers carrying around our new toys.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 23 June 2011, 14:07:48
also, gameplay-wise, what's the difference between the mortar and the howitzer? they seem to overlap too much, you may need to nix one (or replace it with the stun gun)...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 23 June 2011, 15:03:07
I think the M2 should get an ability to dig in(I can also hardly imagine someone lugging around a .50 cal machine gun, its more likely to be too heavy) The mortar should be more short ranged but far faster in rate of fire when compared to the howie, it should also be cheaper and do less damage and splash.

Also M2A3 abrams is illogical since it would mean its a new tank, it should still be M1Asomething if its an abrams.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Ishmaru on 23 June 2011, 16:46:46
R u sure abrams is the right name for that tank? I may not know much about  modern tanks but that tank never struck me as an abrams.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Gabbe on 23 June 2011, 16:49:38
You said the EU were going to be a "superpower", im worried about what huge kind of arsenal so many countries would have. I mean, the countries uses a wide variety of weapons.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 23 June 2011, 17:31:59
R u sure abrams is the right name for that tank? I may not know much about  modern tanks but that tank never struck me as an abrams.
This here is a real life M1 Abrams:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Abrams-transparent.png/300px-Abrams-transparent.png)

This here is the tank in UNATF:
(http://images.wikia.com/glest/images/9/9d/Tank.png)

Close enough for me.

also, gameplay-wise, what's the difference between the mortar and the howitzer? they seem to overlap too much, you may need to nix one (or replace it with the stun gun)...
Now that you mention it, I think we need to replace the Mortar with something else. What should it be? A stun gun (forget the name) or perhaps something a little more lethal? Not so sure how well a stun gun would hold up in terms of usage and usefulness. Plus, if we're going to kill them anyway, why not just do so right off the bat with some powerful explosive than stunning them first? Just find the logic behind a stun gun a bit weak. But at any rate, it should be replaced.

The howitzer uses HE rounds, and is technically anti-personal, though more indirect, and I'd love to use an "attack-location" if it gets implemented (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7305.0).

I think the M2 should get an ability to dig in(I can also hardly imagine someone lugging around a .50 cal machine gun, its more likely to be too heavy)
Well, I was thinking a fairly slow unit (can always "go faster" by using putting them in a humvee or some other type of transport) that drops to the ground to attack, as well as for its hold position (similar to how the marine in the aforementioned beta drops to one knee). Realistically, it would use cover, but that's an engine impossibility, and the disadvantages to using a bunker of some sort were previously listed in an earlier post (to sum that up: if it rotates, that is bad, if it doesn't, it looks terrible shooting with no gun :P).

Also M2A3 abrams is illogical since it would mean its a new tank, it should still be M1Asomething if its an abrams.
That was a typo. It should say "M1A3 Abrams", which is the next tank and will be coming out in around 2018, so it seems fitting.

You said the EU were going to be a "superpower", im worried about what huge kind of arsenal so many countries would have. I mean, the countries uses a wide variety of weapons.
Remember, it's all one country now, with one unified military. Some inferior forms of weaponry were retired. But, let's not go into depth here, because this is about the UNATF, not the fictional utopian EU.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Ishmaru on 23 June 2011, 18:25:32
It actually looks like a British Challenger II tank:

This here is the tank in UNATF:
(http://images.wikia.com/glest/images/9/9d/Tank.png)

and Challenger II

(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs18/i/2007/157/b/5/Challenger_II_Tank_by_chemical_idea.jpg)
(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/challenger2-tcr2dsrt.jpg)
(http://www.ecomodelismo.com/ECO_imgArt/ACAD/ACAD-13007.jpg)

Besides I always view tanks as the backbone of the military anyway, so if the EU is the dominant force in the world so it should have a European tank instead of a American one. Currently some most of the vehicles are usually associated as American (yes i know other nations use them but they are associated with us military) M1 Abrams, Hunvee, B2, Apache so it would look like UNATF is dominated by the US with support from EU.

EDIT: Btw same applies for the Apache (image on glest wiki looks dark but silhouette looks off) Even so Apache are old are are going to be replaced soon by the US, if they haven't started already.
(http://www.armedforces-int.com/upload/image_files/corporate_policy/images/projects/24/two-apache-helicopters.jpg)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 23 June 2011, 18:46:41
You're right. I renamed the tank as a Challenger 2, which seems more powerful anyway (120mm main gun compared to 105, etc).

I tried to make the armaments come from different parts of the world, such as the Russian BM-30 Smerch, the German MP5/10, the Italian M1014, the Swedish AT4, etc. Though, yeah, many of them are american based, though used in more countries than just USA.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 23 June 2011, 19:14:21
Keep the Mortar, it can me a mobile, shorter ranged, faster firing and lighter damaging howitzer, the howitzer would serve a defensive and long range support role, and BTW have you considered something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCT_155mm as an upgrade/late game replacement for the Howie. Honestly, the tank that is probably the best now in todays armies is the Israeli Merkava but the Challengers close enough in ability and Ishmaru's right your tank does look like a challenger up close
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 23 June 2011, 20:52:14
BTW have you considered something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCT_155mm as an upgrade/late game replacement for the Howie
Don't think I'll be adding another unit. The faction is big enough as it is. Might change the heli model a bit to look more like the apache, unless there is a better type of helicopter to make.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 23 June 2011, 21:38:52
I have two heli suggestions the Lynx and the Mi-24 Hind both are awesome and amazing
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Mr War on 24 June 2011, 00:37:43
Hey, the tank is a Challenger 1 not a Challenger 2. Cool detailed model, did you make that?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 24 June 2011, 01:59:32
also, gameplay-wise, what's the difference between the mortar and the howitzer? they seem to overlap too much, you may need to nix one (or replace it with the stun gun)...
Now that you mention it, I think we need to replace the Mortar with something else. What should it be? A stun gun (forget the name) or perhaps something a little more lethal? Not so sure how well a stun gun would hold up in terms of usage and usefulness. Plus, if we're going to kill them anyway, why not just do so right off the bat with some powerful explosive than stunning them first? Just find the logic behind a stun gun a bit weak. But at any rate, it should be replaced.

The howitzer uses HE rounds, and is technically anti-personal, though more indirect, and I'd love to use an "attack-location" if it gets implemented (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7305.0).

here's my solution: ditch the howitzer (not much of a "defense," for it's more of an offense thing), and make the mortar the anti-tank weapon. now, it may be slow, but here's what i think, make the "stun gun" a radiation device that fries infantry and slows down vehicles (not aircraft, though). you could use the excuse that tank crews are shielded from the radiation, but they have to slow down for fear of the tank's heat going above survivable limits (i mean, radiation and the engine, a deadly combination. also, the rad beam/mortar combo would work well together). as previously stated, the radiation beam would cook infantry quite easily, so it's their anti-inf weapon.

there, you now have a defense for all three unit types (boats would be weak to mortars too).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 24 June 2011, 04:56:49
make the mortar the anti-tank weapon
Wouldn't make sense. It has a HE round, but they're driven by gravity. Not very effective against a tank.

make the "stun gun" a radiation device that fries infantry and slows down vehicles (not aircraft, though). you could use the excuse that tank crews are shielded from the radiation, but they have to slow down for fear of the tank's heat going above survivable limits (i mean, radiation and the engine, a deadly combination. also, the rad beam/mortar combo would work well together). as previously stated, the radiation beam would cook infantry quite easily, so it's their anti-inf weapon.
Opinions? Would such a weapon even be possible?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: John.d.h on 24 June 2011, 06:26:05
Opinions? Would such a weapon even be possible?
Yes (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Active_denial).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Ishmaru on 24 June 2011, 13:57:26
make the "stun gun" a radiation device that fries infantry and slows down vehicles (not aircraft, though). you could use the excuse that tank crews are shielded from the radiation, but they have to slow down for fear of the tank's heat going above survivable limits (i mean, radiation and the engine, a deadly combination. also, the rad beam/mortar combo would work well together). as previously stated, the radiation beam would cook infantry quite easily, so it's their anti-inf weapon.

I dont think such a weapon would fit UNATF as they are the "good guys" the Cult yes but a radiation beam seems incompatible with the Geneva convention...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 24 June 2011, 14:53:48
make the "stun gun" a radiation device that fries infantry and slows down vehicles (not aircraft, though). you could use the excuse that tank crews are shielded from the radiation, but they have to slow down for fear of the tank's heat going above survivable limits (i mean, radiation and the engine, a deadly combination. also, the rad beam/mortar combo would work well together). as previously stated, the radiation beam would cook infantry quite easily, so it's their anti-inf weapon.

I dont think such a weapon would fit UNATF as they are the "good guys" the Cult yes but a radiation beam seems incompatible with the Geneva convention...

it's based upon the Active Denial System, which is used as a less-than-lethal crowd control weapon (look at above post for link). the point here is that the microwaves that it shoots stun enemy units. it doesnt have to be entirely lethal to infantry, but it should do something bad to them. think of it like this: when the UNATF zap dudes with this beam (which hurts and stun/slows units), it's their way of attempting to deter enemy infantry from the ways of the Cult. like "we could turn this all the way and kill you immediately, but we want to give you one last chance to renounce your criminal ways." do the Cult infantry accept the offer? no. but you have to give the UNATF points for trying.

see? it's a peace-keeping weapon.
i vote  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 24 June 2011, 18:40:40
Personally, just not so sure if it would be suitable. There's the problems with how the AI wouldn't be able to use it properly, as well, it doesn't stun, it just causes superficial pain which doesn't actually do any damage. Though, it is compatible with Geneva conventions, seeing that it has no side effects (uses radio waves) and apparently USA even put a few in their prisons.

Just can't help but think it feels like the wrong kind of weapon here though. Is there any other suggestions?



Also, regarding radiation, we won't go sci-fi (that's more for Constellus to do), though the cult will have a late game weapon of a dirty bomb, a special type of bomb that isn't nuclear itself, but is packed with extremely radioactive nuclear fallout and debris, with an initial explosion which is meant to spread this out. This is a true radiation weapon. Whereas a nuclear weapon kills mostly from the blast, a radiation weapon kills mostly from the toxic fallout. Oh, and yeah, they're against international law.

As well, if GAE gets some changes to their projectiles (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7312.0), then we may see a rather ambitious MIRV as the Cult's ultimate weapon.



EDIT: 0:48 GMT, 25 June 2011

Um... Crawling through GAE's source, I rediscovered a long long forgotten earthquake effect. While I haven't tested it to see how well it still works, I think it might be rather interesting for nukes to create a sort of mini earthquake on impact too.  The earthquake is linked to an attack skill, and doesn't do damage itself, but is a visual effect that sounds quite pretty, just reading what it does in the source (and understanding less than half of what I read :P).

Code: (FPM's Priestess) [Select]
<earthquake>
<magnitude value="0.25"/>
<frequency value="1.5"/>
<speed value="4.75"/>
<duration value="8"/>
<radius value="10"/>
<initial-radius value="2.0"/>
<sound-file path="sounds/earthquake.wav"/>
<shifts-per-second value="10"/>
<shifts-per-second-var value="2"/>
<shift-length-multiplier x="1" y="0.25" z="1"/>
</earthquake>

I'll re-add it to the wiki after I finish the page I am currently editing, so that these things won't get "lost" again (know any other features that aren't on GAE/Features (https://docs.megaglest.org/GAE/Features)? Please tell me or add them yourself!).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: will on 26 June 2011, 14:50:00
Hey, the tank is a Challenger 1 not a Challenger 2. Cool detailed model, did you make that?

indeed, inquiring minds want to know!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: hailstone on 10 July 2011, 02:44:03
EDIT: 0:48 GMT, 25 June 2011

Um... Crawling through GAE's source, I rediscovered a long long forgotten earthquake effect. While I haven't tested it to see how well it still works, I think it might be rather interesting for nukes to create a sort of mini earthquake on impact too.  The earthquake is linked to an attack skill, and doesn't do damage itself, but is a visual effect that sounds quite pretty, just reading what it does in the source (and understanding less than half of what I read :P).

Code: (FPM's Priestess) [Select]
<earthquake>
<magnitude value="0.25"/>
<frequency value="1.5"/>
<speed value="4.75"/>
<duration value="8"/>
<radius value="10"/>
<initial-radius value="2.0"/>
<sound-file path="sounds/earthquake.wav"/>
<shifts-per-second value="10"/>
<shifts-per-second-var value="2"/>
<shift-length-multiplier x="1" y="0.25" z="1"/>
</earthquake>

I'll re-add it to the wiki after I finish the page I am currently editing, so that these things won't get "lost" again (know any other features that aren't on GAE/Features (https://docs.megaglest.org/GAE/Features)? Please tell me or add them yourself!).
Does it actually do anything? Last I saw it was all commented out.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 10 July 2011, 06:01:35
I haven't actually gotten around to testing it, it did work (to a minor degree) in the past, though I haven't tried it since...well, not since the time of Daniel Santos (ol' what's his name). I suppose it will have to be confirmed.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wciow on 10 July 2011, 07:30:32
I tried the earthquake code a week or so ago but it didn't work so i think it must be commented out like Hailstone said.  I remember it working way back, but i suppose there is a good reason why its been removed for now  :look:
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 10 July 2011, 22:08:11
so, Omega, how much farther have you gotten since last progress update? anything new? or have you shut down work fully until 4.0?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 10 July 2011, 23:03:33
so, Omega, how much farther have you gotten since last progress update? anything new? or have you shut down work fully until 4.0?
Been so busy with some other stuff I barely got past the planning. I'll do mucho work tomorrow.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 12 July 2011, 03:53:35
Work underway, the Mortar was removed, and a few errors in the techtree map were fixed.

(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4392/militarymap.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/militarymap.jpg/)

Since the Mortar is gone, we could use another defensive structure, maybe two. So far we have Active denial (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Active_denial), any other ideas?

As well, the icons look lousy, so I'll be updating them with a new scheme. Units will have blue backgrounds, other actions will have green, while canceling actions will have red. Here's a few that I did so far. Attacks will generally have an image of the weapon or a projectile from it, hold position will have the same with a combination of the stop icon put in, as will guard and patrol. Bottom line, loads of unique images to ensure the best looking GUI too.

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/4679/iconsu.png)

A bit of XML work has been done, though lots to do, since it will be done from the ground up, and all scenarios will be redone. Currently there are 32 units and 12 upgrades, more than any other Glest faction. All textures and images are being converted to PNG (G3DHack is excellent for that), and I'll have to be sure to do something about the unoptimized filesize of the Howitzer (may just remake the whole thing with more detail).

I do hope that we'll see random loading screens in GAE soon, as well as multiple particle systems (in fact, some parts of my planning are depending on multiple particle systems completely, so I'll be taking my time until those are implemented in GAE). As always, suggestions, ideas, and comments are all welcome.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Mr War on 12 July 2011, 08:22:07
Nice icons man



I don't think the mortar should have been dropped, but since you won't be using it, you could have a snipers nest, or an HMG Pit or a dug in tank, or a flak turret(can be used against both ground and air), or a bunker with a machinegun.



Just an idea but the cult "technicals" 4x4s really suites the morphing functionality. Also the libyan conflict shows tactics for them. You could start by requisitioning a 4x4 which starts unsecured and only armed with a rifle. Then you upgrade it into several versions, like:

Recoilless rifle for anti-tank. Turns sideways to fire

Heavy machine gun like ZPU 2. When moving to attack it reverses slowly, when firing it fires over tailgate. Also anti air capable. Lightly armored

Light mlrs for artillery. Fires over side of back

Just a thought
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: ElimiNator on 12 July 2011, 15:14:12
Triple post man!

Yah, icons look cool.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: ultifd on 12 July 2011, 17:12:10
Not triple post...but they should have different profile images/avatar.  :angel:

I agree though, nice icons!

Blast I should have read the this post after I read eliminator's rather than just merging them. Sorry to whoever was squished inbetween with the similar avatar? - Omega
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Gabbe on 12 July 2011, 17:26:33
Triple post man!

Yah, icons look cool.

Haha they don't have completely equal names but hey, you should take time to notice the difference sometimes... ^^
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 12 July 2011, 17:54:53
The mortar was dropped because there wasn't really much difference from the M777 Howitzer. However, the problem with machine gun posts, as we went over in the past, is the rotations. Since it doesn't look like we'll be getting turrets any time soon, the model will have to look good either rotating or not, and with Machine Guns, it's pretty hard to do that realistically.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 12 July 2011, 23:13:49
that was my post you squished but it doesn't matter, The snipers nest could work though, if it was just a clump of trees from which someone would shoot but they would stay invisible, sort of like the archer in the defense tower for tech. BTW there could be quite a huge difference between the mortar and the howitzer, the howitzer would have bigger range, bigger explosive power and bigger attack, not to mention being better against armor, though not a dedicated AT weapon. The mortar could be slightly mobile, cheaper, and have a far greater rate of fire. Another idea for a defense would be a pillbox, it could solve your, hmg nests are hard to make pretty when they turn troubles, in which you're right, and at the same time would provide a place for infantry to hide and possibly shoot from, sort of like the bunkers in C&C Generals
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 12 July 2011, 23:48:49
i can agree with a pillbox, no rotation needed there! now, i still think that the defenses should have an upgrade tree like the one that i had suggested...it'd make gameplay interesting...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 13 July 2011, 07:10:36
that was my post you squished but it doesn't matter
So sorry about that, mate. I should pay more attention. The similar avatars and post below confused me. Well, still readable at least. :-[

The snipers nest could work though, if it was just a clump of trees from which someone would shoot but they would stay invisible, sort of like the archer in the defense tower for tech.
What if the nest looked like an in-tree hunting outpost? Of course, we'd have to take out the trees, as sprouting trees is a bit much, but throw in some hunter style camouflage over this platform so we can't see our snipers and we might be on to something. Take a look at this feature request of mine (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7384) related to this.

BTW there could be quite a huge difference between the mortar and the howitzer, the howitzer would have bigger range, bigger explosive power and bigger attack, not to mention being better against armor, though not a dedicated AT weapon. The mortar could be slightly mobile, cheaper, and have a far greater rate of fire.
The main issue was that even though there is differences, on the long run, they both ended up being very, very similar. By the way, the M777 Howitzer will have two attacks based on different shells available. One is a SMart 155 shell which will scatter multiple shells down (this will be a tad dependent on multiple projectiles making it into GAE soon, but seeing that Will released a patch for MG, and how similar the particle code is for the two engines, I am hopeful that we'll see it appear in GAE). The other attack is a more simple M712 Copperhead projectile.

Another idea for a defense would be a pillbox, it could solve your, hmg nests are hard to make pretty when they turn troubles, in which you're right, and at the same time would provide a place for infantry to hide and possibly shoot from, sort of like the bunkers in C&C Generals
Oh, yes. I actually had thought about pillbox's before, but the image that was stuck in my mind only had "gun slots" (for the lack of a better term) at the front. A larger, round pillbox with "gun slots" all around might be a nice idea. And the concept of allowing units to garrison in them (aka: load (https://docs.megaglest.org/GAE/Transports)), while allowing them to fire out of it, is a nice idea.

now, i still think that the defenses should have an upgrade tree like the one that i had suggested...it'd make gameplay interesting...
I definitely agree, but the problem is, what do they upgrade to? The pillbox might be able to upgrade to a stronger fortified pillbox able to hold more men, perhaps, but what else really? The SMart projectiles on the M777 Howitzer will need an upgrade to use.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Gabbe on 13 July 2011, 10:41:12
that was my post you squished but it doesn't matter
So sorry about that, mate. I should pay more attention. The similar avatars and post below confused me. Well, still readable at least. :-[

Haha The simple fact that you managed to do that AFTER me and UltiFD pointed it out? XD
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 July 2011, 16:39:43
now, i still think that the defenses should have an upgrade tree like the one that i had suggested...it'd make gameplay interesting...
I definitely agree, but the problem is, what do they upgrade to? The pillbox might be able to upgrade to a stronger fortified pillbox able to hold more men, perhaps, but what else really? The SMart projectiles on the M777 Howitzer will need an upgrade to use.

here's how i see it:
pillbox -> fortified pillbox -> bunker (and the bunker can allow snipers to garrison inside, making it a sniper tower)

mortar -> howitzer -> nuclear howitzer? (the shots would have lasting effects besides more damage)

ADS -> advanced ADS -> an even more advanced ADS? (each level should add a new effect of it's laser. eg. lv1 would slow enemy units, lv2 would do some damage, lv3 could drain EP or something)

flak -> SAM site -> Patriot Missile Defense (with stealth craft-detecting devices!)

what do you think?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 13 July 2011, 17:50:55
I think a flak turret and rockets should be separate, though I'd love something like the 20mm phalanx AA gun, it should be a anti ground and anti air unit while the SAM could develop into a patriot but would stay in the AA role only

I'm not sure about the ADS but I like your pillbox suggestion. The howitzer development seems a tad unrealistic though I do believe nuclear shell exist, it doesn't seem to fit with the "correct warfare" waged by the future UN.

A radar emplacement could be nice, increasing range of nearby AA and artillery units while increasing sight and stealth detection. An option would be a to make the bunkers go Log Bunker, Bunker and pillbox with the log bunker only having an M249 and a 2man storage, the bunker having a .50cal and a 4 man storage and the pillbox having the ability to shoot a recoilless cannon or a .50cal

I also think tank traps and barbed wire would fit in to this faction
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 July 2011, 18:00:02
now, Wyvern, im fully aware that you are a fan of full realism in games, and so am i, but you must know that gameplay is also really important. you dont want to overload a player with too many choices! i mean, yes, tank traps, barbed wire, and a slew of different units would be nice, but you have to keep in mind both what's good for gameplay as well as what the engine can handle.

the ideas that i put out there were just for thought and speculation, im saying that you dont have to go with nuclear shells in the howitzer.

(and the ADS is a support turret, designed to assist the other defenses by debuffing enemy units.)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 13 July 2011, 18:18:49
mortar -> howitzer -> nuclear howitzer? (the shots would have lasting effects besides more damage)
The problem is, realistically, a 155mm Howitzer is probably far too small to launch a nuclear warhead.

ADS -> advanced ADS -> an even more advanced ADS? (each level should add a new effect of it's laser. eg. lv1 would slow enemy units, lv2 would do some damage, lv3 could drain EP or something)
Draining EP is a bad idea, since many units depend on it to be able to attack, and draining it would make them helpless. Thinking it over a bit, this could be a one stage weapon that just stops the foe completely (sets attack and move speed to zero) and deals minor damage. By having some defenses have differing numbers of stages, it would make them seem more unique. As well, it wouldn't be buildable till late game, where it would require perhaps one of the tier 3 defensive structures.

flak -> SAM site -> Patriot Missile Defense (with stealth craft-detecting devices!)
"Flak" on wikipedia just redirects to Anti Air weapons in general. Perhaps just SAM site -> Patriot Missile Defense (doesn't have to be three stages).

I also think tank traps and barbed wire would fit in to this faction
I don't really think they'll work well. A looong time ago, I actually did have a mine (granted, there was no stealth then, so it didn't work well against ranged units), and overall, the CPU was stumped and they just didn't work out well. I don't think these will either, since they just make it more complex and there's so many units already. :-\



So to sum up:
Defensive structures
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 13 July 2011, 20:17:52
Tank traps and barb wire doesn't attack it just acts like a wall, so its more of a blocking unit
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: ElimiNator on 13 July 2011, 21:09:43
Or you could have a emanation so when you go into the barbwire your health ticks down.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 13 July 2011, 23:22:28
mortar -> howitzer -> nuclear howitzer? (the shots would have lasting effects besides more damage)
The problem is, realistically, a 155mm Howitzer is probably far too small to launch a nuclear warhead.
mini nuclear warheads, not actual nukes

Quote from: Omega
So to sum up:
Defensive structures
  • Pillbox -> Fortified Pillbox -> Bunker (based on what I found, bunkers were generally larger and more important than most pillboxes. Each gets higher defense, a better "mounted" weapon - which we can't see inside the pillbox/bunker - and more unit capacity)
  • Mortar -> Howitzer (improved range, damage, and multiple attack types)
  • ADS (no upgrades, built late ingame)
  • SAM Site -> Patriot Missile Silo (massive damage increase, stealth detection added)
i still think that the ADS should receive a lv2 version, but i'll see how this works out.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 14 July 2011, 02:25:13
Problem is that at such size, your mini nuclear warhead would do less damage then a conventional round.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 14 July 2011, 02:57:16
the ideas that i put out there were just for thought and speculation, im saying that you dont have to go with nuclear shells in the howitzer.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: will on 14 July 2011, 06:32:20
Man-portable nukes exist, and were often deployed in the 70s.

If you want realism, a single such round would wipe the whole map.

And McAurther is an interesting story of a general on UN mandate who threatened to use nukes.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 15 July 2011, 05:17:37
If you want realism, a single such round would wipe the whole map.
True... And several times over, which is why things are totally not to scale. I mean, a howitzer can launch over 20 kilometers... And a to-scale transport ship would be at least a size 200, bigger than your average map. So, yeah, everything's mass scaled. There's already two nukes for UNATF anyway, they have their ICBM minuteman, which can hit anywhere on the map, and the B83 bombs dropped by the B-2 Spirit, which are considerably smaller nukes, and require the B-2 Spirit to deliver them... This same B-2 also can drop MK-82 bombs as its primary weapon and can launch AGM0158 JASSM-ER cruise missiles. Technically speaking, a real life cruise missile could circle the map ten times. In game, it gets a range of 15, but has a long reload, like the B83 nuclear bombs.

Or you could have a emanation so when you go into the barbwire your health ticks down.
That is do-able, though there's no way to tell the emanation not to hurt air units, tanks, etc... =[ At the best, there's a way to apply the damage multipliers and it could get a new damage multiplier, but the emanation would still show up on the unit's info screen, which feels wrong. If there was a way to remove that limitation, it could work well.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 16 July 2011, 17:28:47
sorry, i dont mean to harp on the idea that the ADS should get an upgrade, but if you were wanting ideas for one, here's what i got: the normal ADS would reduce unit speed by 33% and do approx 5 damage/sec; but the upgraded version would slow by 50% and do 10 damage/sec with a splash of 3 (so you could slow/damage a small handful of units). now, feel free to change those values, i just threw those numbers out there for the sake of discussion.

you know, something i like about the upgrade idea is that it forces UNATF players to decide where to spend their resources. since each defense must be upgraded individually, you have to strategically place and upgrade defenses.

so, do you think that the Cult should also follow the defense upgrade system? or do you think they should have their own way of upgrading their defenses?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 16 July 2011, 23:54:24
sorry, i dont mean to harp on the idea that the ADS should get an upgrade, but if you were wanting ideas for one, here's what i got: the normal ADS would reduce unit speed by 33% and do approx 5 damage/sec; but the upgraded version would slow by 50% and do 10 damage/sec with a splash of 3 (so you could slow/damage a small handful of units). now, feel free to change those values, i just threw those numbers out there for the sake of discussion.
That might work. Except for one thing, isn't the device supposed to STOP the targets, not just slow them? Slowing and minor damage alone wouldn't be too useful. I suppose we would have the effect weaken the further from the splash radius it would be, perhaps just increasing the radius and damage? Of course, the damage would have to be much higher, seeing that once you get attacked, the average life expectancy is a mere 7 seconds, so perhaps more like 50 damage per second (in those 7 seconds, that's 350 damage, far below any unit's HP, thus, it's the weakest unit by far and thus "minor damage" in comparison). It would weaken the further from the center of the splash the target is.

If you can use tags in effects as per this thread (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7393.msg75642#msg75642), I think that the effect should only affect infantry units, for balance purposes, leaving machinery unharmed (and thus making it a higher priority to take advantage of these machines to destroy the ADS).

so, do you think that the Cult should also follow the defense upgrade system? or do you think they should have their own way of upgrading their defenses?
Probably, but let's focus on UNATF for now.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 17 July 2011, 01:10:51
i think it should affect vehicles too, but perhaps just less. like, if the standard ADS were to slow infantry by 75%, it would slow light vehicles by 50% and tanks by 25% (once again, these are somewhat arbitrary numbers).

now, i had forgotten that the ADS was supposed to completely stop units, so why not make the lv1 ADS slow units while the lv2 completely freezes infantry and greatly slows vehicles. if we made it solely anti-infantry, there'd be no real use for it (why not just make a pillbox?). do you think that aircraft should be hit by it too?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 17 July 2011, 06:03:07
i think it should affect vehicles too, but perhaps just less. like, if the standard ADS were to slow infantry by 75%, it would slow light vehicles by 50% and tanks by 25% (once again, these are somewhat arbitrary numbers).

now, i had forgotten that the ADS was supposed to completely stop units, so why not make the lv1 ADS slow units while the lv2 completely freezes infantry and greatly slows vehicles. if we made it solely anti-infantry, there'd be no real use for it (why not just make a pillbox?). do you think that aircraft should be hit by it too?
I'm not entirely sure if it would impact a vehicle in real life... At either rate, not impacting the vehicles here would be for balance above anything... Remember, infantry is cheap, vehicles are expensive. With infantry being the heart of the game and the most versatile, they can be affected the most by stopping them. Plus, stopping units is pretty severe, and it's important not too many units will get stopped (imagine a defense spamming these ADS's, stopping the entire attacking force!)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 17 July 2011, 16:09:20
i think it should affect vehicles too, but perhaps just less. like, if the standard ADS were to slow infantry by 75%, it would slow light vehicles by 50% and tanks by 25% (once again, these are somewhat arbitrary numbers).

now, i had forgotten that the ADS was supposed to completely stop units, so why not make the lv1 ADS slow units while the lv2 completely freezes infantry and greatly slows vehicles. if we made it solely anti-infantry, there'd be no real use for it (why not just make a pillbox?). do you think that aircraft should be hit by it too?
I'm not entirely sure if it would impact a vehicle in real life... At either rate, not impacting the vehicles here would be for balance above anything... Remember, infantry is cheap, vehicles are expensive. With infantry being the heart of the game and the most versatile, they can be affected the most by stopping them. Plus, stopping units is pretty severe, and it's important not too many units will get stopped (imagine a defense spamming these ADS's, stopping the entire attacking force!)

as i had said a page or so back, the main reasoning for slowing down tanks and other vehicles is that since they are being bombarded by heat and radiation, they would have to slow down or face risk of overheating and possibly blowing their engines. so, it'd be an indirect slowing.

ok, howabout this, only light vehicles and aircraft are affected (such as the Humvee and the Helicopter),  but tanks and other heavy vehicles are unaffected (immune to all abilities and damage that the ADS can do) . now, i would say that the light vehicles should only be half affected by the radiation than the infantry; so if an infantry is frozen (100%), a Humvee would be reduced to 50% speed. so, the ADS would be the main counter to fast units, but loses to slower ones.

now, about spamming the ADS to freeze everything, i think that the "slow" shouldnt stack, but the damage would.

lastly, the ADS should have a slightly longer range than other defenses, so it can sit behind them and assist in defending the base. since it's late game and seemingly experimental technology, it should be pretty fragile, so it must be defended by the other defenses.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 17 July 2011, 23:25:21
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
The ADS works by firing a high-powered beam of electromagnetic radiation in the form of high-frequency millimeter waves at 95 GHz (a wavelength of 3.2 mm). Similar to the same way that a microwave oven heats food, the millimeter waves excite the water and fat molecules in the body, instantly heating it and causing intense pain. (Note that while microwaves will penetrate human tissue and remove the water to "cook" the flesh, the millimeter waves used in ADS are blocked by cell density and only penetrate the top layers of skin, so it will not damage human flesh.) Such is the nature of dielectric heating that the temperature of a target will continue to rise so long as the beam is applied, at a rate dictated by the target's material and distance, along with the beam's frequency and power level set by the operator. Like all focused energy, the beam will irradiate all matter in the targeted area, including everything beyond/behind it that is not shielded, with no possible discrimination between individuals, objects or materials, although highly conductive materials such as aluminium cooking foil should reflect this radiation and could be used to make clothing that would be protective against this radiation. As demonstrated on Discovery Channel's "Future Weapons", all living things in the target area receive a similar dosage of radiation.
It doesn't mention effect on machines at all, but it does state how it causes this pain, by "exciting" the water and fat molecules, something machines lack. As well, the part about it being reflective would make you think that machines would be able to armour themselves from such a thing, maybe even some units could be able to (don't plan to, though). Finally, it states that the millimeter waves are blocked by cell density, which sounds to me like thick armour could block it.

It states that "Some ADS such as HPEM ADS are also used to disable vehicles", which seems to me there is an entirely different kind, though I'm thinking we can't go overboard for the issue of balance. The ability to stop a 3x3 block of units instantly (for the "stage 2" ADS seems like plenty).

now, about spamming the ADS to freeze everything, i think that the "slow" shouldnt stack, but the damage would.
That's an impossibility of effects though. What I'm thinking is that it's a 1 second duration (so as to make it disappear almost immediately after the beam stops; maybe zero duration if that works, but dunno if that would), overwrites the existing effect (no stacking in duration), and if it stops the unit in its tracks, then it seems that it makes no difference whether or not the speed stacks. Since the damage is done by the attack itself, not the effect, it would "stack" with other attacks the same way as always.

lastly, the ADS should have a slightly longer range than other defenses, so it can sit behind them and assist in defending the base. since it's late game and seemingly experimental technology, it should be pretty fragile, so it must be defended by the other defenses.
It shouldn't be too long range though, I think. All defenses have above average range anyway, to try and ensure that they can be used to attack a foe despite their general immobility. The ADS is vehicle mounted, so mobile. In fact, it may be more realistic to make it an upgrade to the humvee instead of a proper defense. Though, it could very much be a traditional "turret" defense. Ideas on which is better?
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 18 July 2011, 00:02:46
maybe the HPEM could be the upgraded version of the ADS, and it would do some damage/slow to light vehicles, as i said, and would do much more to infantry. maybe it could be a 2 splash radius instead. (as a reminder, this wouldnt affect heavy vehicles/aircraft, so they would be completely immune)

about the splash damage not stacking, i think you have it spot on. the damage should be able to stack without the effect stacking.

and when i say "longer range," i mean like +1 or +2 to the default defense range. and i could just see my ADS mounted Humvees running off trying to kill some enemy. make it a defense.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: John.d.h on 18 July 2011, 01:25:29
I think it would be reasonable for the ADS to have some effect against light vehicles, if not much, since the waves could presumably pass through the glass and unarmored materials to hit the squishy driver inside.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 18 July 2011, 02:19:27
Bearing in mind that effects will need a way to target tagged units for these to work properly.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: will on 18 July 2011, 08:25:06
Fun thought - if ADS can be reflected, tanks get mirror armour - and then the boffins make missiles that home in on the reflections... such is progress...
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 18 July 2011, 16:25:49
Fun thought - if ADS can be reflected, tanks get mirror armour - and then the boffins make missiles that home in on the reflections... such is progress...

but wouldnt it be horrible if your mirror tanks reflected the beam onto some of your units? they'll cook anyways.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 19 July 2011, 02:49:04
hey, sorry for the double post, but i just got an idea that is completely unrelated to the topic at hand (the ADS turret)

ok, here's my question: is it possible to make a scenario follow an algorithm as well as never have an end? why do i ask? because i think an interesting minigame scenario that could be made is the RTS version of CoD:Zombies. since we talked about zombies as neutral creeps, it would be cool to give them their own game. so, the idea is that you have a "castle" in the middle of the map (that has some turrets attached to it), and it's your job to protect it from limitless hordes of zombies that get stronger with every wave (both in HP and attack power). now, if we could get a counter of some sort to count how many waves youve survived would make things interesting.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 19 July 2011, 05:58:21
hey, sorry for the double post, but i just got an idea that is completely unrelated to the topic at hand (the ADS turret)

ok, here's my question: is it possible to make a scenario follow an algorithm as well as never have an end? why do i ask? because i think an interesting minigame scenario that could be made is the RTS version of CoD:Zombies. since we talked about zombies as neutral creeps, it would be cool to give them their own game. so, the idea is that you have a "castle" in the middle of the map (that has some turrets attached to it), and it's your job to protect it from limitless hordes of zombies that get stronger with every wave (both in HP and attack power). now, if we could get a counter of some sort to count how many waves youve survived would make things interesting.
Yes it is possible, using a for loop where we increase the number of zombies each time, continuing forever.

We start with one zombie, and each wave, make 2 more. We can remember this wave number as a variable, and set the display text to "wave x" (slight problem, as pointed out before, is that there's no way to pass a variable to be a display text unless it exists in the language file! Help me bug Silnarm to let us bypass this! I mean, to get out of this mess in a scenario that used a timer, I had a very, very long language file that listed every time (in second increments) from 20:00 to 0:00. That's 60 * 20 = 1200 lines just for the time. Naturally, I didn't type it out, but had to go WAY out of my way to create a simple javascript file that would create this language file. As a result, despite their only being one language (and unlikely to ever be any others, even though GAE is translatable, there aren't even any major mods in foreign languages anyway) and the only thing being translated was a number, there was a lot more work to make that ... work.

At any rate, when all the zombies in that wave are dead, it increases our variable, and thus increases the number of zombies spawned. The only problem I can think of is that zombies aren't spawned "randomly", but would have to be from one place. I could do some more math though to have them spawn a bit more spread out (eg, we perform a calculation to see if there will be more than 10 zombies (wave 5+), and if so, we put one third of them spawning here, one third here, and everything left here. This would have no end, and when the player is defeated, they will  be told what wave they made up to (another place where we need non-translated output, in this case, the output is not a number, but full text). We may also be able to keep track of the number of kills the player does and tell them that too.

In fact, I may even implement a hidden, scenario-only zombie in the UNATF faction solely to allow this kind of scenario, but only if bypassing the language translation becomes available. I did request such a feature before, but it was denied. Understandably, we should be supporting and encouraging translation, but there's no way to include a mixture of translated and non-translated stuff (that would actually be the best way to go, since we could pass everything but the variable(s) through the translator, but it would also be the hardest to implement by far). Still, at least give us the ability to bypass the translation, because otherwise we won't even have scenarios that depend on outputting variable factors (unless I plan to create another 1000 line language file). Be sure to bug Silnarm when you see him on the IRC ;).

As for making the zombies stronger, it could replace them with a new kind in the later waves, though the simple growth of numbers may be enough.



Related to the ADS, now, I think we need some compromise here. Should it or should it not affect vehicles. Reasons for effecting vehicles is to make it more powerful and useful, reasons not to is to balance it out, keep it from becoming overpowered, and ensure that even if "spam built", they don't become impossible to breach. My fear is that combining anti-air weaponry with the ADS, you could have a far overpowered defense that would be ridiculously difficult to counter. The ADS could keep the infantry completely at bay, and the vehicles weakened enough for even a small number of soldiers (or other defensive structures) to take out. The ADS would then only be weak to aerial units, something the anti-air weaponry would easily take out.

That's just my take, I'm willing to hear yours before we decide how the ADS should work in the final game, bearing in mind CPU habits, balance, and even a slight touch of thought to the future Cult.



I'll be away a bit, so progress will be slowed further, but I'll hopefully be able to get onto the boards, still. As well, this topic just hit more than 1000 posts!
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: John.d.h on 19 July 2011, 07:00:17
despite their only being one language (and unlikely to ever be any others, even though GAE is translatable, there aren't even any major mods in foreign languages anyway)
I'll have you know that the GAE has an almost-complete Spanish translation. :P  However, I don't really think it's likely that we'll have any other complete translations until we get a much more complete release (maybe 1.0) because then the lng files won't need to be updated so often.

As far as no mods having other language support... yeah, I do need to get a Proyecto Verde translation done eventually. ;)  If anybody has a completed and high-quality mod that they want in another language, they can just ask and I suspect that our multinational community would lend a hand.  Assuming I have the time when such a hypothetical request would arise, I wouldn't mind translating some mods into Spanish.

Related to the ADS, now, I think we need some compromise here. Should it or should it not affect vehicles. Reasons for effecting vehicles is to make it more powerful and useful, reasons not to is to balance it out, keep it from becoming overpowered, and ensure that even if "spam built", they don't become impossible to breach. My fear is that combining anti-air weaponry with the ADS, you could have a far overpowered defense that would be ridiculously difficult to counter. The ADS could keep the infantry completely at bay, and the vehicles weakened enough for even a small number of soldiers (or other defensive structures) to take out. The ADS would then only be weak to aerial units, something the anti-air weaponry would easily take out.

That's just my take, I'm willing to hear yours before we decide how the ADS should work in the final game, bearing in mind CPU habits, balance, and even a slight touch of thought to the future Cult.
I would have no problem with the ADS being strictly anti-personnel.  I'm not sure what the anti-vehicle solution would be, except maybe a bunker full of RPG troopers, or tank traps + artillery.  Speaking of bunkers, I think it would be pretty cool for the Cult to have a spider hole as a stealthy troop hideout, along with a sneaky, low-cost anti-personnel solution. :wicked:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 19 July 2011, 13:11:03
IED's and dart launchers could also fit the cults description the bear trap idea looks funny though
I do think the ADS should affect the humvee for one reason, since its a relatively popular spam tech unit, whats to stop your enemy from loading up humvee's with infantry and charging your ADS, dropping them only when they're in range. The APC should be immune though due to better armor/technology
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 19 July 2011, 14:49:59
IED's and dart launchers could also fit the cults description the bear trap idea looks funny though
I do think the ADS should affect the humvee for one reason, since its a relatively popular spam tech unit, whats to stop your enemy from loading up humvee's with infantry and charging your ADS, dropping them only when they're in range. The APC should be immune though due to better armor/technology
That works. The humvee could be affected, though perhaps to a lesser degree, due to it's light armour.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 19 July 2011, 15:50:07
IED's and dart launchers could also fit the cults description the bear trap idea looks funny though
I do think the ADS should affect the humvee for one reason, since its a relatively popular spam tech unit, whats to stop your enemy from loading up humvee's with infantry and charging your ADS, dropping them only when they're in range. The APC should be immune though due to better armor/technology
That works. The humvee could be affected, though perhaps to a lesser degree, due to it's light armour.

isnt that what i said earlier? i think it should go for all "light vehicles," so that the Cult will also have a vehicle or two that are affected as well (seeing as the Cult use lighter vehicles for speed and stealth, this would work well)

i have no problem with mines or traps, as long as there is some way to detect them. maybe each faction's land detector (attack dog, UAV) could spot them. honestly, i dont want to have a new detector solely for mines/traps, it's just too much to think about.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: wyvern on 19 July 2011, 18:25:20
You could rename the private into an engineer/sapper and he could have a minesweeping ability.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Omega on 20 July 2011, 02:42:57
I suppose we'll try having the ADS only reduce the speed of the Humvee while stopping infantry. This will be done using tags, however, the issue is, how do we make it so the humvee is affected to a lesser degree? The only thing I can think of is to have two separate effects, one that affects the humvee (eg, "Overheating") and one that affects the infantry units. Of course, we'll expand who exactly it affects when the cult is released, but that's a thing for later.

As for mines/traps/etc, I think that UNATF is already complex enough! Many units have multiple attacks, some having as many as three attacks which can be used in different circumstances. There are more units than any existing Glest faction, with a total of 32 regular game units! It also has more upgrades than any other faction, allowing more ways to expand and improve your units. This large number of units, combined with an also large table of strengths and weaknesses, makes the faction quite daunting as it is. The tutorial will be split into 5 manageable parts which will go over the basics of the game as well as explain each unit in depth. It will also show basic gameplay strategies.

IED's and dart launchers could also fit the cults description the bear trap idea looks funny though
IED's will appear there, though a fair bit more potent than those often used by terrorist organizations today. Dart launchers are far too primitive though. Remember, this isn't a poorly organized terrorist organization with a couple of AK-47s and an RPG launcher, this is a full fledged, well organized network of organizations controlled by an unknown council of leaders. It is well funded, well trained, and very, very dangerous. They would generally use guerrilla tactics, not out of cowardice (they're perfectly fine with the whole Kamikaze thing), but because they don't have these rules of engagement that limit UNATF, as well as feel no guilt in using low tactics.

You could rename the private into an engineer/sapper and he could have a minesweeping ability.
I think that even though we're unlikely to see mines in UNATF, the "Private" should be renamed to be "Engineer". Obviously it's not the best placed name, but it beats private.
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree
Post by: Zoythrus on 20 July 2011, 05:42:15
IED's and dart launchers could also fit the cults description the bear trap idea looks funny though
IED's will appear there, though a fair bit more potent than those often used by terrorist organizations today. Dart launchers are far too primitive though. Remember, this isn't a poorly organized terrorist organization with a couple of AK-47s and an RPG launcher, this is a full fledged, well organized network of organizations controlled by an unknown council of leaders. It is well funded, well trained, and very, very dangerous. They would generally use guerrilla tactics, not out of cowardice (they're perfectly fine with the whole Kamikaze thing), but because they don't have these rules of engagement that limit UNATF, as well as feel no guilt in using low tactics.
i see the Cult as a combination of a well-funded organization and a bunch of guys who are using weapons they scrounged up. here's what i think: as they go up the tech tree, you'll see higher and higher ranking officials in the organization. so, the AK-47 and RPG guys are pretty much low level grunts with no real meaning to the Cult, but then you'll get things like chemists and clerics as the game progresses. now, the tanks and things that the Cult have are probably going to be weaker than the UNATF's things, but overall speedier, so they can run away from any battle they cant win (and it goes well with the whole hit-and-run tactics that they espouse). hey, do you think that the Chemist unit (or their lab or whatever) can create some sort of mutated freak? like, a big hulking monstrosity that works as an anti-tank unit?
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 20 July 2011, 20:36:45
Bearing in mind that there's also the issue of balance. If the cult is made with weaker faster units for hit and runs, the CPU cult will lose. Simple as that. As well, that's not really a favorite strategy of many players. I see them as something which may not be quite as technologically advanced as UNATF (though very close), but having the advantage of no morality in their weapons. They will happily use extremely dangerous biological agents, chemical agents, and even dirty bombs. I planned their "special attack" to be an MIRV (assuming that multiple projectiles from MG gets implemented), but they will also have a second type of special attack, a dirty bomb which deals only minor damage on the initial explosion, but spreads extremely dangerous radioactive gases (like the UNATF's nuke, these will be downplayed to prevent them from becoming a game ender).




Edit, and the official backstory:

21 January 2029: Much has changed in the past ten years. In 2021, the European Union came to the anamious decision to merge their member states into one country, making it the world super power in economic and military conventions. Two years later, with the United Nations preaching the benefits of unified countries, the United States of America and Canada came to an agreement to a single government. These unified outlooks to the world allowed radical peacekeeping changes to run into aspect. United Nations Security Council members lost their vito powers, a number of peacekeeping missions in the middle east and Africa allowed for many regimes to be overthrown, paying a price in blood for longterm peace. A single currency became adopted amongst all UN members. Peace seemed imminent. Or so it seemed.

30 May 2032: Peace was never meant to be. Working under the radar, a number of dwindling insurgent groups were mysteriously merged by a council of leaders, bearing great power and the threat of destruction to those who opposed them. The UN, unaware of this threat, had already removed pressure on the countries which they called their home. However, this group never forgot what the UN had done to them. They wanted revenge. They wanted more than revenge. They wanted a new world order, a world born anew from destruction, which they could govern as they wished. They called themselves the Brotherhood.

Unlike the terrorist organizations of the past, the Brotherhood did not lack strong leadership. They weren't poorly funded, trained, or equipped. In fact, they were a modern force of enough power to cause immensive destruction; and no morality to control it. With the higher ranks composed of world class inventors and researchers, they had created the ultimate weapon: a biological agent they deemed Serem 121. Unlike most biological weapons which seeked to kill or injure humans, these vital agent had only one ambitious goal: to warp the target tp their side. A special neural agent which infested on the brain, it essentially created a zombie. An outer shell of no emotion, dedicated only to the Brotherhood's cause. It was the worst fate anyone could imagine, a fate worse than death.

With this weapon of mass destruction, the Brotherhood surfaced itself. With an ultimatum to the United Nations, they declared their goal of destroying the world, only to rebuild it anew their way. A way the UN could never allow. Desperate to stop this, the UN gathered the most elite troops from its various member nations. The first time in more than 15 years, the UN was about to have a military mission. A mission they could not afford to fail. With all of the world's countries working in union, they christened this military force the UNATF, the United Nations Armed Task Force. They had only one purpose: to stop the Brotherhood. No matter how high the civilian causalities or their own losses, they would fight till their last breath, as would the Brotherhood.

1 July 2032: The Brotherhood reveals themselves to the world. The UNATF strikes. War has begun.



As we see, we have new developments. Firstly, the "cult" has now been named. Behold, the Brotherhood. A simple name which has been used many times before, has that ominous feeling, and will fit the faction well. Secondly, the Brotherhood will not use the Serum in the regular game (due to the horrendous difficulties of converting a target into a different unit on the other side... while remaining balanced!). Instead, that will be a storyline element in the scenarios. In the regular games, the fights are to prevent the use of this terrible serum. Of course, there will still be plenty of zombies in the scenarios. There will be multiple types of zombies as well, to allow diversity.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 21 July 2011, 01:58:19
Dart launchers were used by the Vietnamese, who never went into a battle without complete numerical superiority, despite not having completely low tech. Also, the Cult could use captured UNATF tanks/vehicles
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 21 July 2011, 02:22:16
following the Brotherhood's lack of morals, i think that this would be a nice addition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb
(think of this as an anti-everything (except aircraft) device, maybe it could be outfitted onto a defensive platform, making it analogous to the UNATF's ADS)

so, lets discuss the Brotherhood's "Combine soldier," we really havent given him a true name yet.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 21 July 2011, 07:39:58
Cool story bro! (No I actually mean it  :P)

What will the Brotherhood's architecture style?  Slum-like hideouts or evil genius's lair type things? I'm having a hard time picturing what they'll be like.

Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 21 July 2011, 15:42:29
i always imagined them to resemble the Nod from C&C - leaning more toward the dark, evil genius look.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 21 July 2011, 17:35:20
I always thought they were something like Viet Cong or Taliban
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 21 July 2011, 19:25:33
i always imagined them to resemble the Nod from C&C - leaning more toward the dark, evil genius look.
Yes, they resemble that a bit, though they value practicability over simple looks, so as long as the defense of a building is high, they don't care if it looks like crap. So while UNATF is keeping their stuff all polished, the Brotherhood is more practical, highly innovative, and extremely resourceful.

They aren't really like the Taliban, which is largely outdated in technology, though they do improvise where necessary. Think of it like putting every terrorist force together, throw in some brilliant scientists and a huge financial backing, remove opposition to allow them to expand underground, and you have the Brotherhood. Consider it terror evolved.

following the Brotherhood's lack of morals, i think that this would be a nice addition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb
(think of this as an anti-everything (except aircraft) device, maybe it could be outfitted onto a defensive platform, making it analogous to the UNATF's ADS)
That's interesting, a weapon meant to destroy humans specifically, without causing large damage to infrastructure. That would somewhat be comparable with the Brotherhood's desire to rebuild the world, since keeping buildings intact would help that, as well, the lack of morality matches the idea of a bomb targeted at killing only living things. I don't think it would be defensive though, as using a bomb for defense sounds a touch insane, but would instead be dropped from the Brotherhood's aerial units.

so, lets discuss the Brotherhood's "Combine soldier," we really havent given him a true name yet.
Got any good ideas, then?

Moving away from the brotherhood, which is very far away in production terms, some of you offered to help with modeling. While I do not need help with the humanoids, those of you with more experience in weaponry may be a better choice for modelling the weapons, which can be later combined with the existing human models. As well, new concepts for the buildings, of which many will be redone, are accepted. Of course, this is purely volunteer only, you do not need to ask permission to help, and you are welcome to simple model something as you will, then upload it here, preferably as a blend file, though any format blender can import will do (which includes G3D). Textures are a plus, but not necessary.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 22 July 2011, 03:12:08
hey, slightly off topic, but i was looking at the tech tree for the UNATF, and i got wondering, where's the Spec Op and the Sniper? you promised us a sniper for the UNATF.

And about the "Combine Soldier," lets call them "Special Heavy Assault and Deadly Espionage" (SHADE) Troopers (i tried my best to think of a good backronym...). and we can just call the Mutant Commandos "Commandos."
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 22 July 2011, 06:10:08
hey, slightly off topic, but i was looking at the tech tree for the UNATF, and i got wondering, where's the Spec Op and the Sniper? you promised us a sniper for the UNATF.
First of all, that's not offtopic. Secondly, they're there, just under a different name (no worries, tooltips will be used to ensure that the weapon naming structure won't confuse anyone). The special op, like the infantry and marine, has three classes with different weapons (you can think of the infantry, marine, and special op as different classes of infantry units, each one being better from the last, but still being diverse in weapons). In this case, the "Special Op XM500" is the sniper, which uses a Barrett XM500 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_XM500), a next-generation sniper rifle which is still in development, and will boast better accuracy and a lighter, more compact design than the current M82.

As mentioned, there's different classes for the Special Op. In addition to that dedicated sniper, there is also the Special Op RPO Shmel (typo on the previously uploaded image), which has a RPO-A Shmel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPO-A_Shmel_%28Bumblebee%29) as a weapon, with two types of attacks, an incendiary projectile, which is basically a long range flamethrower, and an explosive thermobaric warhead. Finally, the last class is a Special Op M4A1, equipped with a carbine, and is fast, accurate, and well rounded (meant to be the standard late game unit). It also boasts a grenade launcher secondary attack (a few units do, really, though only the special op has both a fragmentation grenade and a tactical concussion grenade, which deals minor damage and renders a the target nearly useless for a few seconds).

And about the "Combine Soldier," lets call them "Special Heavy Assault and Deadly Espionage" (SHADE) Troopers (i tried my best to think of a good backronym...). and we can just call the Mutant Commandos "Commandos."
I like SHADE, though I'm not sure who you refer to with "Mutant Commandos".



Edit: Also, I've been wondering if we really should have a full conversion. In the past, Apocalyptic Dawn had its own menus, language files, etc. I am beginning to rethink the logic of that, since it almost forces the user to make a separate install for the mod. Instead, perhaps we should just have the techtree, maps, scenarios, and tilesets be bundled? It would no longer include the tidied up tilesets (I'll instead bug the GAE team about making them the default tilesets in GAE, since they're just the regular tilesets with a few fixes, such as making the XML neater, ensuring that things follow walkable/unwalkable guidelines, and preventing the night from getting *too* dark. Though, I would really like to take a try with a unique tileset in the same way as the likes of the Annex mod introduced us to, with larger than normal size objects. However, since those kinds of tilesets only work on certain maps, they would be used generally only in scenarios, so that would need a way to have scenario specific tilesets (as per this (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7356.0) thread).
Title: Re: Military Tech Tree -- Epic New Logo
Post by: Zoythrus on 22 July 2011, 06:33:15
another elite infantry would be a soldier that has been mutated. enhanced range, attack, and speed; but is fragile.

then we started calling him the Mutant Commando, one of the Brethren's elite units.

do you remember our discussion about Elite units? units who are immune to toxins (and maybe something from the UNATF also?). the ones we agreed on were the UNATF's Spec OP (and all forms thereof) and the Cult's SHADE Trooper and Mutant Commando.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: John.d.h on 23 July 2011, 17:24:51
I remember discussing the elite Brotherhood units with Zoy a while back, and I think what we came up with at the time was one cyborg heavy infantry unit (with a mini-gun?) and a chameleon-skinned mutant commando.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 23 July 2011, 17:48:29
i guess we can flip those around a bit - make the SHADE trooper the cloakable one (with super cloak technology integrated into their suits, maybe give them bombs that they can use to destroy buildings, espionage stuff) and we can make the Mutant Commando the one who is "built to last." I can see two possible ways to implement the Commando: 1. a high damage/sight/speed/range but low HP/armor unit (a skirmisher) or 2. a high HP/armor/damage/sight/cost unit (expensive, but you get what you paid for).

hey, have you ever thought about giving the factions a one-build-only hero unit? an expensive infantry who can turn the tide of battle if used properly. take the heroes from C&C as a good example.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: John.d.h on 23 July 2011, 18:04:49
I think we need a running list of ideas, so stuff doesn't get lost in the 40-some pages of this thread.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 23 July 2011, 18:54:46
ok, so, after browsing back a few pages, here's the ideas that seem the most workable.


im pretty sure i got it all...tell me if ive forgotten anything....
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: John.d.h on 23 July 2011, 20:41:06
Well, there was the battle bus idea, but after looking around on the C&C wiki, I see that the idea was already done almost exactly (http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_bus) by the GLA in Zero Hour (with even the same name! >:(), which I was unaware of when I suggested it.  I only played regular C&C:G, not Zero Hour, so... whoops.  I mean, I guess we could still go with it, but I'd like to have at least a few original ideas here. :O
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 23 July 2011, 20:43:34
Well, there was the battle bus idea, but after looking around on the C&C wiki, I see that the idea was already done almost exactly (http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_bus) by the GLA in Zero Hour (with even the same name! >:(), which I was unaware of when I suggested it.  I only played regular C&C:G, not Zero Hour, so... whoops.  I mean, I guess we could still go with it, but I'd like to have at least a few original ideas here. :O
i was aware of this the whole time, and i figured you were too....

but, it would fit the Brethren's versatility aspect really well. we dont have to call it the Battle Bus, feel free to come up with names
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 24 July 2011, 05:55:38
Updated techtree map, with new defensive structures:
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[URL=http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4392/militarymap.jpg][IMG]http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4392/militarymap.th.jpg[/img][/URL]


Bearing in mind that the focus is on the UNATF, and no real work besides the forum planning will be done to the Brotherhood until Apocalyptic Dawn version 3 is completed, tested, and stable.

Thoughts:
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 24 July 2011, 06:33:35
ok then, no mutated freaks....bummer.....

here's my ideas for the Brethren's three elite units (to mirror the UNATF's)

well, i think that one of the possible SHADE trooper "offshoots" is a stealthless, offensive cleric trooper (the one i talked about earlier). it would be a much more offensive version of the normal SHADE trooper, being a much more frontline unit that enhances the troops around it with speakers mounted on the shoulders that broadcast the will of the Brethren. it would have a similar, but bulkier, suit to the normal SHADEs, showing that it's not a "behind-the-scenes" unit as well as be given some badass weapons. lastly, the buff would be "overwrite," so you cant spam Clerics and create an unstoppable army.

you could make the toxin sprayer the third variation of the SHADE Trooper. give it slightly sleeker armor and dual toxin cannons on it's shoulders, and it would fill an anti-infantry role much like the UNATF sniper (without the range, of course). but it could do corrosive damage to the hulls of tanks and buildings, unlike the sniper which is can only hit infantry. the sniper would also have greater sight and range as well as the fact that it's cloaked.

the main SHADE trooper (the one that does cloak) could be given an assault rifle for basic defense and the ability to plant bombs on structures and tanks (a 1 range attack).

now, something that should be noted, all variations of the SHADE technology are resistant to things such as toxins and anything that places a lasting effect as well as immune to the effects themselves which may be put upon them (like all the UNATF's Elite units). also, they are still infantry, so snipers can still kill them with ease, and they are all ineffective against anti-inf weapons.

as a defense that is analogous to the ADS could be a broadcast tower (in a similar vein of the Cleric i spoke about a few lines up). this would be a much better version of the Cleric's abilities, buffing all units, not just infantry.

about the gyros, maybe as a scout-unit? the normal gyro is what you build, while the upgraded gyro is a morphed version of the first. they are cheap and can get the job done if you have enough. then you give them a fighter and the bomber that drops neutron bombs and they're set!

The battle bus (which i call the "BMS1-Safehaven" or just "Safehaven" for short, please can we go with this name?) could be their idea of an APC. it would be weaker than the UNATF's structurally, but would allow the infantry to attack from within.

the quad cannon could be their version of the SAM site, a base defense. then we could make a weaker, mobile version for mobile anti-air, but only anti-air.

so, flame tank as the mainline anti-inf tank? C&C3 proved that a flame tank would also be good against buildings as well.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 24 July 2011, 22:35:35
Not so sure about the Cleric and Broadcast tower ideas. I would imagine them as more straightforward and down to the point, not to mention the thought of someone walking around with speakers in the middle of a battle spouting off extremist ideals sounds a bit far fetched. Not to say there won't be boosting units, though ;)

I like the name "Safehaven" for the battlebus. :)

For gyrocopters, the concept of making them a weak, early available air unit sounds like a good idea. In most Glest mods, air units are generally only available late in the game, so making one available semi-early will be an interesting turn. Perhaps the first stage would have just a weak machine gun, while the upgraded version would have an improved machine gun and the ability to drop small bombs (infrequently).

As for planting bombs on structures, I don't really see how that would work, since there's no way to delay an attack or let a unit know they should be getting out of the way, so don't think that would really work. Besides, like most stealth units, they would have a detector of some type, so they'd be unlikely to get close to any buildings stealthily (unless said buildings are far away from the base or the foe has not constructed the detector unit). Who will detect the stealthy SHADE unit anyway?

I may try to make a rough starter faction map later.



EDIT: Behold, The Brotherhood, version one. Because they create their own weaponry and aren't affiliated with any country, all weaponry names are made up. These are subject to change as are the units themselves.

Code: [Select]
[URL=http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/4007/brotherhoodmap.jpg][IMG]http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/4007/brotherhoodmap.th.jpg[/img][/URL]
Because of these obscure(ish) names, some brief descriptions of the units:

Of course, all can change if needed. As well, I've decided that it's too easy to spam the special attack weapons, so they are going to be changed to limit only one to be built at a time. This is done by having a hidden static resource of which one is supplied at the start and more are never given. If the unit dies, you receive this special resource back, so you can build another. This will help balance things out, as the special attacks weren't meant to have multiples of. Some scenarios may allow more to be built.

As we see from this map, the Brotherhood is more machine and vehicle based while the UNATF is more infantry based. Because you will have more open options with unit choices, it becomes more important to choose wisely which units you will use to combat the foe, not always choosing the strongest units, as their considerably higher resource costs will only allow you to make a limited number, whereas you could make a larger number of more diverse units. All in the strategy.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 25 July 2011, 03:16:28
ok, some comments i have about this working tech tree:

the IT26 SHADE has a sniper rifle, that conflicts with the UNATF's Sniper. I think it should be given a simple medium assault rifle such as the H&K G36 for basic defense (since it's made for speed and stealth, it shouldnt be carrying much).

if you dont want to go with Cleric idea, maybe make the PT4A SHADE a heavy assault infantry. like, a slow shock trooper designed to take great damage and deal just as much (maybe rockets and a chaingun?). yes, this would be expensive....

the CM-5 is fine as long as it's powerful against infantry and ok against vehicles at short range. it's designed to be a solely anti-unit infantry.

about the advanced gyro, it should gain the attack upgrades as well be able to hold a passenger.

lastly, i still think they should have something which gives them a quasi-religious feel, such as a temple or broadcast center.

PS. you spelled "Research" wrong
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 25 July 2011, 06:08:17
the IT26 SHADE has a sniper rifle, that conflicts with the UNATF's Sniper. I think it should be given a simple medium assault rifle such as the H&K G36 for basic defense (since it's made for speed and stealth, it shouldnt be carrying much).
I suppose that could work, maybe give him an EMP grenade secondary attack for extra thrills (deals a special effect against machine units).

maybe make the PT4A SHADE a heavy assault infantry. like, a slow shock trooper designed to take great damage and deal just as much (maybe rockets and a chaingun?). yes, this would be expensive....
That would work well. Perhaps the PT4A can be a portable chaingun of some type, and a secondary rocket launcher attack.

the CM-5 is fine as long as it's powerful against infantry and ok against vehicles at short range. it's designed to be a solely anti-unit infantry.
Well, the regular chemicals are nearly useless against non-infantry (0.1x multiplier), but I'm thinking a corrosive secondary chemical that has an effect of mild damage and reducing foes defenses for a lengthy period of time.

about the advanced gyro, it should gain the attack upgrades as well be able to hold a passenger.
Yes.

lastly, i still think they should have something which gives them a quasi-religious feel, such as a temple or broadcast center.
Just not sure if we should properly throw in any real references to such a controversial topic. Even in the backstory, we don't go over why they want to rebuild the world, might be easier to leave at just that. Though, if we were to create a broadcast tower, what would it do?
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 25 July 2011, 06:40:47
lastly, i still think they should have something which gives them a quasi-religious feel, such as a temple or broadcast center.
Just not sure if we should properly throw in any real references to such a controversial topic. Even in the backstory, we don't go over why they want to rebuild the world, might be easier to leave at just that. Though, if we were to create a broadcast tower, what would it do?
a bunch of morale-boosting propaganda/lies aimed at the insurgents. things like "fight for the cause and you will be rewarded greatly with riches and glory!" the attack speed and armor of units are boosted when around a broadcast tower.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 25 July 2011, 13:30:17
To avoid reusing the battlebus idea, have you considered a reinforced truck, the germans used those in Graebner's assault on Arnhem Bridge. They were pretty much trucks with sandbags, metal plates, and sand filled jerrycans on the inside to reinforce them against bullets.

I also feel your giving the Cult a lot of high tech stuff that would be better off with the UNATF side, for example, all of the SP(self propelled) stuff really doesn't seem to fit in. After all, where would they get it, since russia and china don't have much of those things, as far as I know, and the western world wouldn't sell them. I think they should get stuff along the british/italian portee principle, where you can mount an artillery cannon, AA gun or AT gun on a flatbed truck and shoot from it before running away, of course, sacrificing survivability when you do so.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 25 July 2011, 19:31:18
a bunch of morale-boosting propaganda/lies aimed at the insurgents. things like "fight for the cause and you will be rewarded greatly with riches and glory!" the attack speed and armor of units are boosted when around a broadcast tower.
That could be done, though my worries is that they already have plenty of upgrades, though I suppose we could fit in more, though avoiding becoming overpowered while doing so may be hard. Not sure how effective boosting would be though, since it would only work when defending very close to your base.

I also feel your giving the Cult a lot of high tech stuff that would be better off with the UNATF side, for example, all of the SP(self propelled) stuff really doesn't seem to fit in. After all, where would they get it, since russia and china don't have much of those things, as far as I know, and the western world wouldn't sell them. I think they should get stuff along the british/italian portee principle, where you can mount an artillery cannon, AA gun or AT gun on a flatbed truck and shoot from it before running away, of course, sacrificing survivability when you do so.
Of course the Brotherhood has lots of high tech stuff. None of it is imported from other countries directly (though resources may be imported separately and stealthily under fake corporations), they build their own weapons. Think of it like the Manhattan Project, but for terrorists, where the best (and most corrupt) minds in the world just decided to make some rather nasty weapons. Bear in mind this also takes place a good chunk of years into the future, and unlike regular countries, the Brotherhood doesn't need to spend years testing and perfecting their weapons. They get something that works, they mass distribute it and throw it in to gain an upper hand. This is more than just a war against the UNATF for them, but a war against time.

You could even consider the Brotherhood to be weaker than they could be, since chemical weapons like the Novichok agents would have the potential to kill nearly everyone they affected before the foe would have the chance to protect themselves from it. Or imagine a plane that released anthrax spores over an entire civilian city? Same thing for the UNATF, their nuclear missiles would generally have the potential to destroy the entire game map five times over, but are downscaled for balance and playability.

As well, you must also remember to look at the balance of it. Were any terrorist organization today were to march in a conventional war against, say, the US alone, they would be decimated almost instantly. Instead, they hide away and deliver the vast majority of their kills with explosives hidden under their roads. Such principals wouldn't work well here, and it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. The AI would also be unable to play such methods at all. Thus, the Brotherhood is well organized and very well equipped. These aren't current day terrorists, this is terrorism evolved.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: John.d.h on 25 July 2011, 19:53:19
Candidates and inspiration for the battle bus: http://defense-update.com/products/g/grizzly_bw.htm (http://defense-update.com/products/g/grizzly_bw.htm), http://defense-update.com/products/c/cougar.htm (http://defense-update.com/products/c/cougar.htm)

No mutants?  Darn, I was even coming up with a backstory about how the Brotherhood scientists were the spiritual successors of the Axis scientists in WW2 (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Human_experimentation_and_biological_warfare), and have been conducting genetics experiments on human subjects for the past century or so.  Anyway, I think the cult's commando unit could be an anti-sniper -- invisible to the sniper's detection, and using a stealthy melee attack (e.g. machete) to take them out.

Regarding whether the cult is religious or secular, I had really just imagined them as dogmatic conspiracy theorists -- the kind who think the Illumaniti, Freemasons, Zionists, Opus Dei, or whoever are trying to put the world under some draconian one-world government.  These guys are all over Youtube, and they really are as crazy as you can imagine.  They have been working at this for a long time, and when the EU unites as a single nation and the UN starts picking up additional powers, the cult leaders see this as a definite sign that the New World Order is at hand unless they unleash all kinds of trouble to bring them down (i.e. the zombie plague, nukes, ebola, assassinations, crashing the stock market, whatever).  Once the nations of the world have been destroyed, the Brethren can rebuild the world as a utopia.

Even if the cult is well-funded, I would imagine that they still rely a lot on masses of fanatical volunteers with little training, so I was thinking to counter the UN's three basic infantry, the cult could have...
The cult has access to much better and newer weaponry, so they offload their surplus of AK-47 and RPG-7 to their highly-expendable recruits.  The "commandos" (marine equivalents) would probably be mercenaries and ex-military cult members with modern weaponry.

Other miscellaneous ideas:

Elite units (SHADE alternatives):

Anybody want to create a Google Doc or something, where we can compile ideas, instead of scattering them around?
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 25 July 2011, 21:00:23
The technicals could work like portees, with the basic model having an HMG  and passenger ability while other models have a rocket battery(katyusha anyone?), or a large artillery cannon. I agree with most of what John said except for the AT minigun person, I'd think he should have a minigun and some sort of AT rocket launcher. Maybe the Cult could upgrade the dogs to suicide dogs that have bombs strapped to them to destroy tanks. They could also have some WWII Era AT guns with High tech Range finders to take out enemy tanks. Take the SU-100 and its stationary AT gun brethren as an example, both served into recent times and the AT power is more then adequate to pierce and make mincemeat out of an Abrams. All it lacks is the ability to get the first shot off which it could get with better range finders
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 25 July 2011, 22:58:31
Even if the cult is well-funded, I would imagine that they still rely a lot on masses of fanatical volunteers with little training, so I was thinking to counter the UN's three basic infantry, the cult could have...

I think we're largely underestimating the Brotherhood. They may be brutal and willing to achieve this new world order by any means possible, but they have one considerable difference from current terrorist organizations: they are smart. They've learned from the mistakes of the past, realizing that throwing untrained followers with an automatic rifle simply will not work. Not when there is now hundreds of the world's most elite soldiers determined to destroy them, and they're massively outnumbered as well (there's a lot more good people in the world than bad). New recruits to their cause undergo a rapid fast and brutal three month training program before thrusting them into the war (think of it like wartime conscription, nobody wants to send in an office worker who doesn't even know how to reload a gun, but give him a few months of brutal training and he'll at least stand a chance of survival. He may not be as good as the better trained, experienced military officer, but at least he won't be spraying bullets everywhere doing nothing).

Thus, these limited numbers have to be used efficiently. The inspiration for the Brotherhood is not any past terrorist organization (they all lost, goes to show how well that works), but working almost like a country of its own. Were it a country, the Brotherhood would be a super power to rival Russia, but with several distinct advantages. Firstly, they have no set land nor civilians that can be harmed. This makes invasions harder and make nuclear weapons less effective. Next, they don't have to worry about the civilians at all, and can devote all their spending to their cause. They are also not to any agreements to limit power, and will happily use outlawed weaponry with chemicals or biological weapons.

Thus, unlike the suicidal terrorists of today, which always ultimately fail, the Brotherhood has evolved past those points. Like a soldier in Afghanistan who may be willing to die for his country, he certainly doesn't want to die. He's prepared to if he has to, but surviving is...better. Same for the Brotherhood, they may be willing to die for this new world order, but they'd rather live to see it themselves. With such small numbers, every death means one less person to fight for their cause. In the end, they are more like an army with no morals than a terrorist organization. Not to mention I'm pretty sure a hunter with a shotgun would get downed pretty fast if he was thrown against a SEAL. As shown by the results of past wars, training makes a massive difference.

Candidates and inspiration for the battle bus: http://defense-update.com/products/g/grizzly_bw.htm (http://defense-update.com/products/g/grizzly_bw.htm), http://defense-update.com/products/c/cougar.htm (http://defense-update.com/products/c/cougar.htm)
For the battle bus, I think that BW Grizzly is the best looking, though our brotherhood would naturally have to tone theirs down a touch. Whereas the Grizzly claims to be capable of defending troops from IEDs and even .50 bullets, for balance, I think the Brotherhood's should not be immune to .50 bullets. :P Add in some "windows" to shoot from, though, and it looks like a very good candidate.

No mutants?  Darn, I was even coming up with a backstory about how the Brotherhood scientists were the spiritual successors of the Axis scientists in WW2 (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Human_experimentation_and_biological_warfare), and have been conducting genetics experiments on human subjects for the past century or so.
Don't get your hopes up on no mutants, just not in the main game. Not to say that there won't be any outbreaks in scenarios, though...

Anyway, I think the cult's commando unit could be an anti-sniper -- invisible to the sniper's detection, and using a stealthy melee attack (e.g. machete) to take them out.
That sounds like a better use for their SHADE stealth unit. Rather than an assault rifle as per Zoy way above, a stealthy machete to slice snipers up, and make them detectors to snipers, while being stealthy themselves. 

Regarding whether the cult is religious or secular, I had really just imagined them as dogmatic conspiracy theorists -- the kind who think the Illumaniti, Freemasons, Zionists, Opus Dei, or whoever are trying to put the world under some draconian one-world government.  These guys are all over Youtube, and they really are as crazy as you can imagine.  They have been working at this for a long time, and when the EU unites as a single nation and the UN starts picking up additional powers, the cult leaders see this as a definite sign that the New World Order is at hand unless they unleash all kinds of trouble to bring them down (i.e. the zombie plague, nukes, ebola, assassinations, crashing the stock market, whatever).  Once the nations of the world have been destroyed, the Brethren can rebuild the world as a utopia.
Fitting.

  • Speed boat -- Similar to the [wiki]USS Cole bombing[/wiki], the cult uses explosive-armed speed boats to launch suicide attacks against UN naval targets.  The boat can also be loaded and used as a light transport.  Maybe it should be an amphibious hovercraft to simplify things.
As mentioned above, the suicide idea doesn't fit the Brotherhood's ambitions well, but a speedboat with guns, perhaps even a napalm may be interesting, since most ships in the game are huge, and unable to navigate rivers, whereas a speedboat could take to the rivers and be more useful against land units (whereas other boats are largely used for the purpose of preventing enemies from transporting units with their transport ships (sink a transport ship: kill everyone on board)).

  • IED -- A staple of asymmetrical warfare is the booby trap, and old Soviet munitions make excellent examples.  This can come in anti-personnel, anti-vehicle, and dirty nuclear varieties.
IED's themselves are actually great ideas, at first thought, and have been considered since the beginning days of this faction (earlier versions included a mine), but ultimately were completely unused because the AI had incredible difficulty using them, it seemed impractical that you couldn't walk on top of them (if size 1, as size 0 made them impossible to destroy, even with a splash), that your own units could go "near" them safely while the foe's couldn't, etc.

  • War dog -- No machine invented so far can match the detection ability of a dog's nose, so dogs are excellent at scouting and detecting hidden enemy soldiers and explosives.  They are most useful for scouting, patrolling, and mine sweeping, but a dog can also tackle and maul a human opponent, causing damage over time while reducing the victim's attack and movement.  This makes for a deadly combination with riflemen, who can finish off the pinned enemy.
We may need to make an attack dog as an anti-stealth unit. What building to produce from though? Leaning towards Operations Center.

If we're allowing cyborgs or power armor, this is where they come into play.
I think the primary issue with power armour is that we are only roughly 20 years in the future, and the technology being used by each side is largely already possible. As well, there's a slight issue with the fact that the Brotherhood has 34 units, about double that of a standard faction... Are we perhaps getting a bit over our heads? It'll be hard enough to learn these units even with tooltips on every unit and attack, a 5 part tutorial (per faction), and full documentation. Plus, the buildings alone already nearly overflow the base given on most maps, and some maps don't even give enough room to allow the full base to be built in one location.

Anybody want to create a Google Doc or something, where we can compile ideas, instead of scattering them around?
Be my guest.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 26 July 2011, 00:31:39
Too bad Glest isn't like Warzone 2100, there you have a bunch of upgrades and hundreds of possible armor weapon combinations to make your units, that would make it much easier to learn.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 26 July 2011, 00:54:39
ok, a bunch of things i'd like to say:

we had already established that the War Dog was going to be the Brethren's main land detector, and no, no blowing up dogs.

let's make the heavy SHADE unit the Autocannon MAPAS unit (actually, this was what i was trying to go for in the first place), then we can modify the flamethrower MAPAS unit and make it the Brethren's third elite unit.

with the stealthy SHADE unit, he should be given the assault rifle for basic defense, but it breaks his cloak. the knife, on the other hand, wouldnt, but it forces him to get much closer to infantry to kill them.

ok, so for the UNATF, the sniper is the main land detector and the Grey Eagle can detect everything (even in the water!). i like the idea of the SHADE countering the sniper, as long as the sniper can still 1-shot the SHADE if it's detected by a Grey Eagle.

now, here's a suggestion: the UNATF should focus on survivability while the Brethren should focus on power. so, the UNATF go for a slightly more defensive stance at the cost of some speed, while the Brethren go for strength/speed at the cost of overall HP/armor
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 26 July 2011, 04:52:35
let's make the heavy SHADE unit the Autocannon MAPAS unit (actually, this was what i was trying to go for in the first place), then we can modify the flamethrower MAPAS unit and make it the Brethren's third elite unit.

with the stealthy SHADE unit, he should be given the assault rifle for basic defense, but it breaks his cloak. the knife, on the other hand, wouldnt, but it forces him to get much closer to infantry to kill them.
Modifying thoughts now, what if the first SHADE unit is the stealthy one with an assault rifle, but also a knife that can one hit kill any infantry, but has a cool down period, as well as requires the unit to get up close and personal (though he can remain under stealth). The second SHADE unit is the heavy one, with a WIP power suit which is slow, but allows him to have a (small) missile launcher and flamethrower (think of some of the...chunkier... ones in Ironman). Finally, the third SHADE unit is the chemical sprayer.

ok, so for the UNATF, the sniper is the main land detector and the Grey Eagle can detect everything (even in the water!). i like the idea of the SHADE countering the sniper, as long as the sniper can still 1-shot the SHADE if it's detected by a Grey Eagle.
Well, let's take a closer look. So, the stealth units in UNATF are the B-2 Spirit and the XM500 Special Op. The B-2 Spirit can only be detected by UNATF's Patriot Missile System, while the Brotherhood detects it with their L152 Takeout unit. The XM500 Special Op can be detected by the MQ-1C Grey Eagle in UNATF and the Attack Dog or the IT26 SHADE Trooper in the Brotherhood. Both of these lose stealth temporarily while attacking.

In the Brotherhood, there is currently only IT26 SHADE Trooper with stealth, and it is detected by the MQ-1C Grey Eagle in UNATF and the Attack Dog in the Brotherhood. It loses stealth if it attacks with it's gun, but not if it attacks with its knife. As necessary, all units must have some type of detector in both factions (so in a Brotherhood vs Brotherhood game, things still work, etc).

now, here's a suggestion: the UNATF should focus on survivability while the Brethren should focus on power. so, the UNATF go for a slightly more defensive stance at the cost of some speed, while the Brethren go for strength/speed at the cost of overall HP/armor
They pretty much do this already, to be honest. For example, whereas the UNATF has stronger defenses with its Pillbox/Fortified Pillbox/Bunker, the Brotherhood has less defense there, but stronger offense, such as seen by its super tank, the T5 Reaper, as well as the powersuit warrior, the CM-5 SHADE Trooper.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 26 July 2011, 05:01:21
ok, a bunch of things i'd like to say:

we had already established that the War Dog was going to be the Brethren's main land detector, and no, no blowing up dogs.

let's make the heavy SHADE unit the Autocannon MAPAS unit (actually, this was what i was trying to go for in the first place), then we can modify the flamethrower MAPAS unit and make it the Brethren's third elite unit.

with the stealthy SHADE unit, he should be given the assault rifle for basic defense, but it breaks his cloak. the knife, on the other hand, wouldnt, but it forces him to get much closer to infantry to kill them.

ok, so for the UNATF, the sniper is the main land detector and the Grey Eagle can detect everything (even in the water!). i like the idea of the SHADE countering the sniper, as long as the sniper can still 1-shot the SHADE if it's detected by a Grey Eagle.

now, here's a suggestion: the UNATF should focus on survivability while the Brethren should focus on power. so, the UNATF go for a slightly more defensive stance at the cost of some speed, while the Brethren go for strength/speed at the cost of overall HP/armor
Why no suicide dogs? It fits the Cult concept and its been used in history, Russians used it versus German tanks with limited success.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 26 July 2011, 05:04:32
let's make the heavy SHADE unit the Autocannon MAPAS unit (actually, this was what i was trying to go for in the first place), then we can modify the flamethrower MAPAS unit and make it the Brethren's third elite unit.

with the stealthy SHADE unit, he should be given the assault rifle for basic defense, but it breaks his cloak. the knife, on the other hand, wouldnt, but it forces him to get much closer to infantry to kill them.
Modifying thoughts now, what if the first SHADE unit is the stealthy one with an assault rifle, but also a knife that can one hit kill any infantry, but has a cool down period, as well as requires the unit to get up close and personal (though he can remain under stealth). The second SHADE unit is the heavy one, with a WIP power suit which is slow, but allows him to have a (small) missile launcher and flamethrower (think of some of the...chunkier... ones in Ironman). Finally, the third SHADE unit is the chemical sprayer.
the SHADE should be the stealth unit, the MAPAS should be heavy assault, and the third should have a different acronym, and be the well rounded elite unit. (this is all so that the elites are memorable, and so that it shows that the suits may be related, but have totally different functions)
Quote from: Omega
ok, so for the UNATF, the sniper is the main land detector and the Grey Eagle can detect everything (even in the water!). i like the idea of the SHADE countering the sniper, as long as the sniper can still 1-shot the SHADE if it's detected by a Grey Eagle.
Well, let's take a closer look. So, the stealth units in UNATF are the B-2 Spirit and the XM500 Special Op. The B-2 Spirit can only be detected by UNATF's Patriot Missile System, while the Brotherhood detects it with their L152 Takeout unit. The XM500 Special Op can be detected by the MQ-1C Grey Eagle in UNATF and the Attack Dog or the IT26 SHADE Trooper in the Brotherhood. Both of these lose stealth temporarily while attacking.

In the Brotherhood, there is currently only IT26 SHADE Trooper with stealth, and it is detected by the MQ-1C Grey Eagle in UNATF and the Attack Dog in the Brotherhood. It loses stealth if it attacks with it's gun, but not if it attacks with its knife. As necessary, all units must have some type of detector in both factions (so in a Brotherhood vs Brotherhood game, things still work, etc).
no, the sniper should remain cloaked while attacking, because that's the point of a sniper. now, maybe moving should reveal it, so that it's not used as a reconnaissance unit (that's what the Grey Eagle is for). and im ok with the Grey Eagle being the UNATF's only unit detector.

and, @Wyvern, do you want PETA on our tails? and blowing up dogs would make me cry  :'(
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 26 July 2011, 13:49:01
But were not saying its right to blow up dogs, it only makes another reason to show how wrong the Brotherhood is. I don't think the sniper should be revealed when he shoots but he should have a a longer distance cloak when he moves so that the enemy can spot him from a closer distance when moving
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 26 July 2011, 16:24:43
@Wyvern, Omega just said that the Brethren are much better than strapping bombs to animals (or anything for that matter). although, i think it would be kinda interesting if the weakest infantry that they have could do a suicide bomb run if his AK-47 isnt doing anything to the enemy (instead of molotovs).

now, to give the Cult more of a stealth idea, we could give them cloak towers (as a counterpart to the ADS). it would cloak everything around itself, even itself! but any unit attacking from under cloak would reveal that unit, so you would want to put your guys on hold fire if you didnt want to expose yourself. this tower could be upgraded once for a small HP/armor boost and a larger cloak field. i think that this would fit the Cult well because it can give them an offensive edge. NOTE: any detector could find these cloaked units.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 26 July 2011, 17:16:39
I have an idea, what if there was an infiltrator, who was completely stealthed, has an instant kill knife attack, SMG, and explosives to blow up the enemy buildings including Defenses in one hit. However, it would take a long time to reload
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 26 July 2011, 17:22:03
I have an idea, what if there was an infiltrator, who was completely stealthed, has an instant kill knife attack, SMG, and explosives to blow up the enemy buildings including Defenses in one hit. However, it would take a long time to reload
well, that's kinda the point of the SHADE trooper, maybe a demolitions attack would be cool....but these guys would have to be pretty expensive...
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: John.d.h on 26 July 2011, 17:46:18
It does seem like the Brotherhood should have another stealth unit or two, doesn't it?  Maybe they could have some kind of spy or saboteur, who sneaks around and cripples enemy vehicles?  Or maybe some of their infantry should be able to energy cloak, uncloaked by shooting or moving.

I definitely think that the UN sniper should retain cloaking while firing, but lose it while moving.  It just doesn't make much sense otherwise.  Snipers sometimes spend days getting into a good position, and then they can pick off enemies from a distance with virtual impunity for a while.

I agree with having the dog trained at the ops facility, since they would need special training and maybe extra growth hormones or something.  Police and military dogs tend to be very highly trained, so I doubt they would want to strap a bomb to such a valuable asset.

An untrained hunter might not be a match for a Navy SEAL, but masses of rabble with guns raised all kinds of Hell for enemy forces in Somalia, Iraq, Palestine, and Afghanistan.  Besides, they're not meant to be a match for the spec ops, but a group of five fanatics could probably be a match for three standard infantry.  It's not that the Brethren need to rely on swarms of idiots, but if you've got thousands (millions?) of people ready and willing to die for the cause, plus a few million surplus guns, minus any respect for human life, it would be foolish not to use them.  They could certainly be a valuable asset early in the war/scenario, before they gain enough momentum and capital (i.e. build the proper buildings) to hire decent mercenaries, or just as cannon fodder.  Plus, if they have slightly different roles than later units (e.g. the AK is a splash unit), they don't become obsolete very fast.

Regarding the cloaking tower, that is sorta what my spider hole idea was for.  Dig a hole in the ground and throw a camouflage net over it, and it will be pretty hard to spot for an average joe walking by.  Of course, they could have a bigger pit for multiple units, and it would be immediately detectable to a dog's nose and a UAV's infrared camera.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BQI_pvyY5BeZYaF2FgYHkGM33bsMYAoP-TyaO-O1rqs/edit?hl=en_US (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BQI_pvyY5BeZYaF2FgYHkGM33bsMYAoP-TyaO-O1rqs/edit?hl=en_US)
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 26 July 2011, 20:47:27
Firstly, there will not be bombs strapped to dogs, as training an attack dog is harder than training a human, making them far, far too valuable to lose. The attack dog will be relatively expensive, but fast speed and the cloaking detection is almost invaluable.

As for the UNATF Sniper, I suppose we can try it with cloaking only going away on movement, though my worry is that if you stand in a position without moving, you'll never be found until late in the game in a UNATF v UNATF game, since the UNATF detector is the (late game) UAV.

And while the Brotherhood may have lots of supporters, they are vastly outnumbered by the UNATF, so can't afford to waste those valuable supporters by throwing them into a suicide mission. They'd want to make sure it's the best they can get. It's like World War conscription, they'd throw you through some quick training before throwing you into this war.

The spider hole may actually be a good idea, however, it may be an interesting concept to have the UNATF more geared towards defense and the Brotherhood towards offense, as per Zoy earlier. Stealth is a defensive mechanism (it doesn't deal damage of any sort, but helps save the unit and can be used to fortify defensive positions), so it's not necessarily unbalanced if the UNATF has two kinds of stealth units while the Brotherhood has one. Not to mention the Brotherhood's stealth unit is far more versatile. The UNATF's B-2 Spirit always uncloaks on attack, and being a late game unit, there's a good chance the foe will have a detecting Patriot Missile System or L152 Takeout. The XM500 Special Op has the weakness of only having stealth when not moving. But the Brotherhood's stealth unit can move and is capable of a stealthy attack, as well as more intermediate range attacks.

the SHADE should be the stealth unit, the MAPAS should be heavy assault, and the third should have a different acronym, and be the well rounded elite unit. (this is all so that the elites are memorable, and so that it shows that the suits may be related, but have totally different functions)
Fair enough for me, got an idea on an acronym/name for the chemical sprayer then? TORCH - Tandem Orientated Relay Chemical Hunter?

While I agree that a demolitions attack for the SHADE trooper would be cool, I just don't see any way it would be done? Unless you have some idea that won't involve blowing the unit to smithereens (ideally, he would place some type of charge on the building which would blow up after some time). What about creating a zero size unit that has EP regen of 1, and needs 3 EP to perform this specific blow up attack (so if placed near a building, it would blow up after 3 seconds, when it has full EP), and also give it 4 HP and a -1 HP regen, so it will die after 4 seconds (right after exploding). Being size zero, it be attacked (thus why it must die from HP regen instead of its splash attack). Only flaw? The AI will suck at it (though, I don't think they will use it even for now, and should we get Lua AI in the future, I will try and fix such a thing). In retrospective, that might actually work...

I have an idea, what if there was an infiltrator, who was completely stealthed, has an instant kill knife attack, SMG, and explosives to blow up the enemy buildings including Defenses in one hit. However, it would take a long time to reload
That really is the SHADE, it is stealthed, has an assault rifle, a knife that can do an instant kill (but has an EP cost to prevent overuse), and just might be getting an explosives attack. However, the explosives attack will NOT be one hit kill (even a nuclear bomb doesn't one hit any buildings), as that could be a game ender (I mean, a stealth unit you can't see just destroyed your resource building? Good fight). Though, the explosives would be reasonably powerful. The only restriction I can see is how to have cooldowns for both the knife and the explosive? I know there was a feature request for such a thing, but I believe it may have died. :( It would be possible to have both use EP, but I'd prefer the cooldowns be separate, so that they can have different recharge times (you can use the knife more than the explosives) and to prevent the use of one from penalizing the other. Since the explosive is a weapon, it may even have resource costs. 8)

Finally, the techtree needs a resource update. Any ideas that won't break the AI?

Oh, and thanks for making the google doc, John.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 27 July 2011, 00:05:30
Training bomb dogs wasn't as hard as you think, the ruskies had thousands of them in service up to 1942-3 and succeeded in destroying a couple hundred german tanks. Plus militia is always gonna outnumber a proper army, which is what the UNATF is so the militia spams to make up for their training deficit.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 27 July 2011, 03:54:04
Training bomb dogs wasn't as hard as you think, the ruskies had thousands of them in service up to 1942-3 and succeeded in destroying a couple hundred german tanks.
But these elite dogs could cost thousands of dollars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_dog#Uses) and for a dog that can detect and attack like we described generally takes two years (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_does_it_take_to_train_a_police_dog) or so.

Plus militia is always gonna outnumber a proper army, which is what the UNATF is so the militia spams to make up for their training deficit.
Except that we're talking about a full war here, not just a peacekeeping mission with not even 5% of an army there. If all NATO forces suddenly decided to place their full armies in Aghanistan, they'd massively outnumber the Taliban. Same thing here, except we aren't talking about a couple countries, but most of the world's countries, all part of the UN and all willing to participate fully to take down the Brotherhood, which has a number of loyal fanatics, but nowhere near as many soldiers as the UNATF. People are basically good, and the numbers of good outnumber the bad, here. I mean, in this utopia; China, India, North America, and the European Union contain about 75% of the world's population alone. Yes, the Brotherhood is rather outnumbered, and if pressed enough, the UNATF could always bring out conscription (dunno about you, but I think just about anyone would agree to fight in a war if the only other option is complete and uttermost destruction).
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 31 July 2011, 05:29:28
I'll be away in a chain of vacations for the next while, so won't be much (if any) progress. I'll try and get on the boards, but... :-[
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 31 July 2011, 05:44:05
won't be much (if any) progress.

wait....there was progress before? :P
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 31 July 2011, 08:06:49
won't be much (if any) progress.

wait....there was progress before? :P
Woah, ouch. hahaha.  :P
Have fun on your vacation. Though didn't you say awhile back you were just waiting on 0.4 to release Military 3? Or is that now void because you started work on it again?
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: ultifd on 31 July 2011, 08:35:17
Everybody is either busy...or on vacation.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/not_enough_work.png)
(OK, so maybe this doesn't really fit Omega, but I had to put in a XKCD. :P)
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 1 August 2011, 05:08:42
won't be much (if any) progress.

wait....there was progress before? :P
Well, it was going along pretty slowly, but steadily. I'll be honest, very busy with other stuff at the moment, and my time is largely divided between work (full time in the summer) and a large pile of games and movies I was hoping to play and see this summer (sadly, I realize I will likely not have time to do it all), but sooner or later, I'll reach that point where I go "hey, let's go work on Apocalyptic Dawn again".

Though didn't you say awhile back you were just waiting on 0.4 to release Military 3? Or is that now void because you started work on it again?
A while back, the "original" version of Military 3 was mostly done, but had to do a large number of things that needed 0.4's features, so was waiting for its release, but then I decided to totally redo how UNATF works to (1) bring it up to snuff in quality, (2) make it more "different" from other mods, and (3) make it a formidable foe for the Brotherhood. When this change was decided, I scrapped the previous version and began working on this major revision instead, and 0.4 will almost definitely be released before I finish, at the rate I'm going (and I certainly hope MG's new projectile changes are available by then too, as I'm purposely saving the particles for last in hopes of redoing many, especially the nukes, and the Brotherhood will need almost require the projectile changes or we'll have to do some rethinking (and I really like some of the ideas which would use these changes!).

It should be noted this isn't as minor of a change as it would appear. I'm redoing all the XMLs from scratch, rethinking how they work, rebalancing, and the like. As well, very few models will be kept (the lab will be, as will the base humanoid models, though they'll be reanimated), since, to be blunt, the buildings sucked. I need new ideas, though, so if anyone has anything in their mind about how any of the buildings could look, please, feel free to describe it or post concept art, inspiration, etc. It would be a great help. I'll be keeping a closer eye at the real life versions of most of the units, to try and make them at least a fair resemblance to the real versions. You've seen a teaser of the icons, which have also been revamped, and, simply put, there's a lot more icons now, since many things that shared icons before (attacks) will now have their own. I hope that multiple loading screens will be available by the time it's ready for release, so hope to create some more later (the current loading screen must be redone, and I want to remake the logo too). I also want to redo all the sounds and give some of the units that didn't have them some. Also should be noted that if anyone wants to translate the mod (I will have a 100% complete base translation available once the mod is done), please, contact me and I'll send you a copy of the language before I release. In short, the mod is almost being rebuilt from the ground up, and it's going to take a while, and I am not working on it nearly as much as I should be :-[.

Everybody is either busy...or on vacation.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/not_enough_work.png)
(OK, so maybe this doesn't really fit Omega, but I had to put in a XKCD. :P)
I'd say mines the other way around, too much work! I'm not giving up on the mod, though, but do expect it to take...a while. Most development is in "spurts".
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Mr War on 1 August 2011, 11:32:29
Training bomb dogs wasn't as hard as you think, the ruskies had thousands of them in service up to 1942-3 and succeeded in destroying a couple hundred german tanks. Plus militia is always gonna outnumber a proper army, which is what the UNATF is so the militia spams to make up for their training deficit.
Agree your historical point but I thought that tactic was generally regarded a disaster and the 300 tanks destroyed figure is very much propaganda,. Pretty good info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 1 August 2011, 13:21:15
300 is the official amount by most books/sources, though its still a massive failure considering the thousands deployed. Also, that article says iraqi insurgents tried it along with bomb donkeys to attack US troops
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 1 August 2011, 18:36:33
Training bomb dogs wasn't as hard as you think, the ruskies had thousands of them in service up to 1942-3 and succeeded in destroying a couple hundred german tanks. Plus militia is always gonna outnumber a proper army, which is what the UNATF is so the militia spams to make up for their training deficit.
Agree your historical point but I thought that tactic was generally regarded a disaster and the 300 tanks destroyed figure is very much propaganda,. Pretty good info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog
Gotta agree with Mr War here, after reading that article, I almost laughed at the sheer stupidity and failure of the concept... Or would have, if it wasn't so cruel.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog
Although the original dog training routine was to leave the bomb and retreat so that the bomb would be detonated by the timer, this routine failed and was replaced by an impact detonation procedure which killed the dog in the process. The U.S. military trained anti-tank dogs in 1943 for use against fortifications, but never deployed them. Dogs strapped with explosives were unsuccessfully used by Iraqi insurgents in 2005.
The keywords there are "failed" and "unsuccessfully".
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 2 August 2011, 05:34:01
Training bomb dogs wasn't as hard as you think, the ruskies had thousands of them in service up to 1942-3 and succeeded in destroying a couple hundred german tanks. Plus militia is always gonna outnumber a proper army, which is what the UNATF is so the militia spams to make up for their training deficit.
Agree your historical point but I thought that tactic was generally regarded a disaster and the 300 tanks destroyed figure is very much propaganda,. Pretty good info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog
Gotta agree with Mr War here, after reading that article, I almost laughed at the sheer stupidity and failure of the concept... Or would have, if it wasn't so cruel.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog
Although the original dog training routine was to leave the bomb and retreat so that the bomb would be detonated by the timer, this routine failed and was replaced by an impact detonation procedure which killed the dog in the process. The U.S. military trained anti-tank dogs in 1943 for use against fortifications, but never deployed them. Dogs strapped with explosives were unsuccessfully used by Iraqi insurgents in 2005.
The keywords there are "failed" and "unsuccessfully".
Wyvern, i think i speak for everyone when i say "we're not blowing up any dogs!"
dude, it's cruel, inhumane, and would make most of us cry....
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Mr War on 2 August 2011, 06:12:30
Well I think both Russia and USA have at least until recently trained dolphins to blow up ships. Dolphins look like they are smiling, how cute ..... Boom
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 2 August 2011, 18:28:42
Well I think both Russia and USA have at least until recently trained dolphins to blow up ships. Dolphins look like they are smiling, how cute ..... Boom
The keyword is "until recently". I think there's a pretty good reason why they stopped...

Plus, this is 20 years in the future, in the age of guided missiles, which have advanced a lot in those odd years.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 2 August 2011, 19:31:36
Training bomb dogs wasn't as hard as you think, the ruskies had thousands of them in service up to 1942-3 and succeeded in destroying a couple hundred german tanks.
But these elite dogs could cost thousands of dollars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_dog#Uses) and for a dog that can detect and attack like we described generally takes two years (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_does_it_take_to_train_a_police_dog) or so.

Plus militia is always gonna outnumber a proper army, which is what the UNATF is so the militia spams to make up for their training deficit.
Except that we're talking about a full war here, not just a peacekeeping mission with not even 5% of an army there. If all NATO forces suddenly decided to place their full armies in Aghanistan, they'd massively outnumber the Taliban. Same thing here, except we aren't talking about a couple countries, but most of the world's countries, all part of the UN and all willing to participate fully to take down the Brotherhood, which has a number of loyal fanatics, but nowhere near as many soldiers as the UNATF. People are basically good, and the numbers of good outnumber the bad, here. I mean, in this utopia; China, India, North America, and the European Union contain about 75% of the world's population alone. Yes, the Brotherhood is rather outnumbered, and if pressed enough, the UNATF could always bring out conscription (dunno about you, but I think just about anyone would agree to fight in a war if the only other option is complete and uttermost destruction).
Forgot to mention this but pulling off conscription in America or the USA wouldn't work, imagine the demonstrations, another Vietnam
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Mr War on 2 August 2011, 19:51:46
The keyword is "until recently". I think there's a pretty good reason why they stopped...
Money.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 3 August 2011, 00:47:51
Forgot to mention this but pulling off conscription in America or the USA wouldn't work, imagine the demonstrations, another Vietnam
Normally, no, but if the "other side" was dangerous enough to kill everyone and had the (lack of) morality to do so, I'd imagine people would be more supportive. USA has generally been "out of danger" for most wars, so doesn't really know what it's like to have no other choice. I mean, first world war, they only joined because a ship with American passengers, nowhere even near their country, was sunk. They were never attacked on home soil. World War II, they joined after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, which was an unexpected loss for the US, but hardly anywhere near as bad as what most European countries suffered. Notice after the events of Pearl Harbor, American opinions shifted from isolation to support for the war. Same thing after the events of 9/11. The bottom line: unless you feel your in direct danger, you're not very supportive. In this scenario, we have a cult who's willing, capable, and able to directly attack the US. Think 9/11 in every city. Think 9/11 every day.

Yes, I think in such a situation, even America would support it. As for Europe, several countries there still have conscription.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 3 August 2011, 01:33:57
Army quality is in question as well, not to mention the small size of non conscripting nations. Maybe mercenaries should be a unit for the brotherhood. Also, the USA entered WWI because of a possibly doctored telegram from germany asking Mexico to join the war and when victorious they would gain portions of the USA. Its still a possibility that the telegram was faked by the brits, who gave it to he Americans.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 3 August 2011, 01:48:36
Its still a possibility that the telegram was faked by the brits, who gave it to he Americans.
I don't recall ever hearing any skepticism about the Zimmermann Telegram before... That's offtopic, though. At any rate, the story is as it is, it takes place in the future specifically so that we don't have to worry about the small inaccuracies. In 2032, we can poke fun at it, ok? For now, well, it's just a game.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: will on 3 August 2011, 07:49:35
Where does the believe that the zimmermann telegram was faked come from?  Need to back up such statements with sources!
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 3 August 2011, 15:52:40
Where does the believe that the zimmermann telegram was faked come from?  Need to back up such statements with sources!
pics or it didnt happen ;)
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 3 August 2011, 18:24:01
Pics could be a problem but I'll see if I can find the sources where I read it, in 1917 Britain was desperate for help against U-boats and the telegram conveniently gave them America as a military ally, not just for economic aid. Either way, its only been speculated, not proven a fact. Its especially a sentiment in Eastern Europe so Czech books occasionally mention it
Edit: heres a wikipedia link, it doesn't say the brits doctored it and I personally think/hope they didn't....but considering how much they BS'd and lied to the americans about how and where they got it I'd say it certainly doesn't rule out the possibility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_telegram
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 3 August 2011, 18:43:14
Off topic ends here, or I bring out the "delete post" stick!

The bottom line is the AD story is perfectly fine as it is.

EDIT: Ooh, fire! Down goes Zoy's post count by one.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 4 August 2011, 14:28:17
Lol, but seriously, have you considered giving the brotherhood a mercenary option, a good soldier better then the average UNATF trooper but expensive in money, no other resources required though.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Mr War on 4 August 2011, 15:31:25
Have u considered drugged soldiers, like zombies for the brotherhood? Cheap but dumb.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 4 August 2011, 18:05:16
Have u considered drugged soldiers, like zombies for the brotherhood? Cheap but dumb.
As per the storyline, there are "zombies" in a sense, from their new experimental serum weapon, but they will only appear in the campaign.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: John.d.h on 4 August 2011, 19:44:49
I had a thought regarding the Brotherhood's tank and heavy chopper -- modular guns.  The unit would have a load command that holds, for example, three types of units: a rocket pod, a chain gun, and a laser.  This would be separate from the troop carrying command.  These guns would be created as units per se (easily represented by a crate) and they would be able to fire regardless of the transport's spacial orientation like a turret.  Of course, we have no way of representing them on the transport cosmetically, but that's no biggy.  Additional modules could be, for example, a sensor array or microwave generator.

For example:
Light gyro, holds 1 person or 1 module (utility or gun)
Transport chopper, holds 6 personnel, 2 gun modules, and 1 utility module
T-5 tank, holds 3 gun modules and 1 utility module
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 4 August 2011, 21:40:41
I had a thought regarding the Brotherhood's tank and heavy chopper -- modular guns.  The unit would have a load command that holds, for example, three types of units: a rocket pod, a chain gun, and a laser.  This would be separate from the troop carrying command.  These guns would be created as units per se (easily represented by a crate) and they would be able to fire regardless of the transport's spacial orientation like a turret.  Of course, we have no way of representing them on the transport cosmetically, but that's no biggy.  Additional modules could be, for example, a sensor array or microwave generator.

For example:
Light gyro, holds 1 person or 1 module (utility or gun)
Transport chopper, holds 6 personnel, 2 gun modules, and 1 utility module
T-5 tank, holds 3 gun modules and 1 utility module
That's actually a really good idea. However, I don't like the idea of having to load this unit: what happens when it's not loaded, etc... Might be simpler to give each of those three units some "mods" which are actually a morph skill (and can only have one such mod). The major advantage is that you can change the look, so a heavy gyro (transport chopper) with an anti-air mod will be identifiable from a gyro with a anti-ground rocket mod. Yes, it's simpler and doesn't allow as much customization, but the CPU will never use loading correctly, and it sounds like a overcomplicated burden for players: morphing is easier and CPU-safe.

Rough ideas:

These are just concepts and will likely be changed, but they also have another advantage for being a morph, as where else will the weapon fire from? Some are added attacks, others are stat boosts. In the added attacks, the new attack will be the "primary one" (ie, they are the first in the command list, so the AI will use them, and in cases like the anti-air cannon, it will switch to its regular attacks only when all aerial units are dead). The prices will vary, for example, the T-5 Reaper Extended Range will be cheaper than the Heavy Laser.

As well, because the names are too long, they'll likely be shorted (eg, T-5 Reaper Extended Range becomes T-5 Reaper ER) with proper descriptions in the tooltips, as always.



On another important note, I realized that our current plans with cloaking and detectors will require that a detector can belong to multiple cloaking groups. I made a feature request for that, and hope it is implemented. https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7436.msg76248#msg76248
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: John.d.h on 4 August 2011, 21:43:41
That's actually a really good idea. However, I don't like the idea of having to load this unit: what happens when it's not loaded, etc... Might be simpler to give each of those three units some "mods" which are actually a morph skill (and can only have one such mod). The major advantage is that you can change the look, so a heavy gyro (transport chopper) with an anti-air mod will be identifiable from a gyro with a anti-ground rocket mod. Yes, it's simpler and doesn't allow as much customization, but the CPU will never use loading correctly, and it sounds like a overcomplicated burden for players: morphing is easier and CPU-safe.
Main drawback: many more units to keep track of.  At least tags should help with some of that, assuming they can be used with repair lists, load lists, etc.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Loronal on 11 August 2011, 14:07:18
wait apocalyptic, yay somebody should make a brotherhood of steel (fallout tactics) mod.  :P
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 14 August 2011, 23:41:14
Apocalyptic Dawn: Now on ModDB.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/apocalyptic-dawn
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 25 August 2011, 02:28:41
Today's question: Should Apocalyptic Dawn have some type of population system (where there is a maximum unit count)?

Analysis
Pros

Cons

Implimentation
Now, with that said, if they are implemented, there's a large number of ways to do so.

Firstly, we could have some type of housing be built (this gives lots of room for differenting  the sides, such as using tents, huts, hideaways... Anything could be used as housing). There would be a maximum limit on the number of houses (let's say each house gives 10 population and you can build up to 8, for a maximum of 80 population). These houses would be restricted by a hidden resource, which would limit the number we can have (if GAE ever supports MG's maximum unit restriction XML tag, that would be a cleaner method).

Secondly, a more conservative method (houses take up a lot of room, and need more management), would be to simply give the user all the population at the start. It would be simpler for the player, but simplicity is a double-edged sword: good or bad.

Finally, we could morph the main building, perhaps making it look more intimidating and increasing its health and stats, in, say, three chunks (start with 30 population cap, after the first morph, the cap would increase to 60, then to 80). The issue is how we can build multiple of these buildings, which would cause definite problems. We cannot use subfactions as the AI still had trouble with them last I saw, which means that we can either restrict the main building to one or, my better idea, to have the main building given at the start of the game different from the other buildings. In other words, we have "headquarters" as the building that engineers (worker units) can produce, but the main building given at the start of the game is actually "headquarters_", which will appear the same ingame, but is actually a different unit with these new morph commands.

Personally, I really like the concept of the last option, which is more unique and fits well, though it could be subject to AI issues (though the AI seems to morph without trouble). The building cannot grow in physical game size, however, as that would be too restrictive (eg, if any units are too close, particularly other buildings), but it can grow in height and the model can look fuller. The second option makes a backup if the third does not work, though the first would take up too much room, in my opinion, since there's already lots of buildings: adding eight house-style buildings would take up more room than we have.

Resource
Population would be a static resource (ideally, there would be a way to show both how much we have left and the maximum, such as 43/80, but that is not currently possible, so it would have to make do with a "countdown" showing how many more we can have. That may change should a new resource type for population be implemented in the future). The resource would be recoupable, meaning that if a unit using one population dies, the player gets that one population count back, which they can spend on a new unit (thus, you can only have 80 at a time, not over the whole course of the game). I would prefer to do away with food entirely, replacing it with population, though both could reasonably co-exist. Most units would only need one population count, but for balance and realism, some units like tanks or aerial units would require more (thus, you can build less of them, but they're more powerful, so you'd have to decide, one stealth bomber or two infantry units? That stealth bomber could wreck quite some havoc, but if those infantry units are anti-air, they could down that stealth bomber pretty easily. Strategy prevails.

Decision
Which brings us to our final point: Should we have a population resource or not? And if we do, should we keep the food resource or not? And if food exists, should it be recoupable (get it back after the unit using it dies, like Magic's energy) or not? I am all aboard for having a population cap and doing away with the food resource. As a note, before replying, if you have not already played a game with such a cap, I recommend you do so. I admit, first time I played AoE2, I thought that I did not like the population caps, but later on, I realized how they made me a better player, since I had to use more strategy. So, please, comment below! :thumbup:
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: wyvern on 25 August 2011, 11:58:30
I think its a good idea but maybe you could make two versions/techtrees of the game like in the Annex mod where one would have pop and the other wouldn't ro make the pop enlargeable but make it harder to do so, like in BFME2
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: MuwuM on 26 August 2011, 18:34:06
The Website of Apocalyptic Dawn / Military http://military.glestguide.co.cc/ (http://military.glestguide.co.cc/) Shows me "You're settling for good when there's awesome. Upgrade to Firefox 3.6!". In fact I'm using Firefox but I use version 7.0 wich is, sofar I now a bit higher than 3.6. Well, ok, 7.0 is still beta, but same with 6.X (current version) .
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 26 August 2011, 19:13:30
The Website of Apocalyptic Dawn / Military http://military.glestguide.co.cc/ (http://military.glestguide.co.cc/) Shows me "You're settling for good when there's awesome. Upgrade to Firefox 3.6!". In fact I'm using Firefox but I use version 7.0 wich is, sofar I now a bit higher than 3.6. Well, ok, 7.0 is still beta, but same with 6.X (current version) .
Yes, I am aware of that. However, no plans to update it until the next release is ready, in which case it would be a major overhaul of the site. I don't even use Firefox anymore. :P
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: ultifd on 26 August 2011, 23:38:58
IMO Glest games might not go well with a maximum unit count. Besides that, I guess the only real problem would be the AI. Have you done any tests on this yet?
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 27 August 2011, 06:12:07
IMO Glest games might not go well with a maximum unit count. Besides that, I guess the only real problem would be the AI. Have you done any tests on this yet?
Not personally, but it works for Annex.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 27 August 2011, 07:09:39
IMO Glest games might not go well with a maximum unit count. Besides that, I guess the only real problem would be the AI. Have you done any tests on this yet?

It's not a Glest game, it's a game on the Glest engine. Two games on the same engine don't have to look or feel alike, I mean, look at the unreal engine ;). Modders should be trying new things and Annex is a shining example of that  :P.

I've been trying to implement housing in a mod, and the AI haven't been playing well at all... But I've also changed a lot of other things as well, so maybe it's not the housing that is doing it...
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Ishmaru on 30 December 2011, 19:54:15
I just downloaded version on moddb, and just want to comment on a few things:

First you didn't include certain tilesets so a few senarios do not load. Like your tuitorials.

also just wana say aside from the menu music, the music really does not go with your mod. They are very Super Nintendo style. While snes music is cool and all, it doesent go with the more realistic theme.

Your models render nice in 0.4 beta!
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 31 December 2011, 05:28:56
I just downloaded version on moddb, and just want to comment on a few things:

First you didn't include certain tilesets so a few senarios do not load. Like your tuitorials.

also just wana say aside from the menu music, the music really does not go with your mod. They are very Super Nintendo style. While snes music is cool and all, it doesent go with the more realistic theme.

Your models render nice in 0.4 beta!
Ooh, someone noticed that. On a side note, that was actually version 2.5, more properly, and wasn't really meant to be released, only doing so so there would be a release of some type for some of the fixes in the previous version. Technically, version 3 is supposed to be underway, but Skyrim and Civilization V (speaking of which, it's interesting how most of Civilization's gameplay is coded in Lua and XML, which can be modded) have possessed my soul (it's in Steam's EULA). I've planned all new music tracks, plenty of new models (the whole unit design was changed), and hope to implement an entirely new campaign (starting from scratch). The tileset? Overlook, though with version 3, I want the release to be modular, so expect scenarios, tilesets, etc to be released in separate addons (though I'll likely also release one addon that bundles everything for downloading convenience of those who want it all).

I actually did try and do some work recently, by taking Mr Wars balance spreadsheet and started adding AD's units, but somehow I went wrong early on, while adding in new rows and columns to make up for the extra units, and now, despite the best of my attempts, it seems to be broken in some of the later rows. It probably isn't the most accurate way to do things though, since AD's units tend to have more than one attack.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Zoythrus on 31 December 2011, 17:48:54
So, Omega, you're a Civ 5 fan too? look me up on Steam.

i think that i'll test out AD when the next GAE update comes out.
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Ishmaru on 31 December 2011, 18:09:54
Yea I was expecting to see like the apc and stuff in it. All right good luck then!
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 31 December 2011, 19:30:47
Yea I was expecting to see like the apc and stuff in it. All right good luck then!
Hmm... I could have sworn the APC was in that version, if basic.

You know, looking at the units folder, there's 40 units. I'm thinking some should be cut out, as 40 is just too high of a number for Glest. Specifically, cutting out the BM-30 Smerch, the Active Denial System, the Radial Denial System, the fortified pillbox, the M252 mortar, the TOW-equipped Humvee, and the SAM site. The rational for this is that all these extra units have quite a few downsides: the game is more difficult to learn, it's a lot more work for me (who knows, a future version could add some back in), heavier on the computer with all the extra units, and there's just no really no room for all these units.

Admittedly, it's hard to part with some. The ADS, for example, was the subject of a lengthy discussion about how it would work and whether or not to use it. However, I think we've gotten just a but out of scope. Scaling the project down slightly (after all, besides the fact there's still 33 units without those 7, there's still a scenario campaign that needs work and a future opposing faction) would overall help AD. The ADS and its upgrade were never crucial units. They were niceties, but weren't necessary for the faction, as well are still untested in how well they would really work. The BM-30 Smerch was a new unit concept, but long range units would need an equally long range sight to function correctly, which affects balance. As well, like the ADS, it's simply not crucial for the faction's design. The fortified pillbox is unnecessary. The pillbox defensive structure would just be two tiers without the FP, going from the pillbox to the bunker. The M252 mortar is also unnecessary, as it is very similar to its second tier, the M777 Howitzer. The extra boost to damage isn't interesting enough to need a new unit. The TOW-equipped humvee is the same way: we have other units capable of taking out tanks and armoured foes, we'd just leave the first tier, the regular humvee. And finally, the SAM site would have been considerably different from the Patriot Missile System it upgrades to, but air units are so late game and the AI takes so long to bring them in that it's redundant to upgrade a unit only of use late game for a stronger version. We'll just skip to higher requirements with a medium strength PMS (actually, we shouldn't acronymize that).

So, Omega, you're a Civ 5 fan too? look me up on Steam.
OT, but I don't even know how to do that. Steam was the worst part about the last two games I've played, Civilization V and Skyrim. Many reviews criticized the game for the use of steam. I mean, I love the concept of a centralized (kinda) store for buying and downloading games, but when you buy the disc version, you'd expect to not have to cope with steam and its lengthy verifications. Steam adds an extra 20 seconds to the game's startup, gets fussy when I'm offline, and occasionally likes to leave me hanging while it verifies some file. But aside from Steam woes, an awesome game (except even with a clock mod, it's hard to tear yourself away at 3 AM).
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: lazyanttu on 1 February 2012, 20:09:01
I'm just curious, what is the current state of Apocalyptic Dawn? Are you waiting for the next stable release of GAE or something. :)
Title: Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
Post by: Omega on 1 February 2012, 23:42:11
More like waiting for me to get my butt in gear. I simply haven't had the time to put any serious effort into it for a while, now. February and March are looking hyper for me too. I don't see much happening in April, but it may get to the point of which work on it won't resume till the summer (if I could have any super power, it would be the ability to control time, though I'd cope with the ability to not have to sleep; time constraints are man's worst enemy).