MegaGlest Forum

Modding and game content creation => Maps, tilesets and scenarios => Topic started by: titi on 3 February 2010, 14:16:08

Title: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: titi on 3 February 2010, 14:16:08
There are some differences in the current tilesets up to now:

in my opinion "normal" are:
Forest, Evergreen, Autumn, Mediterran, (New) Winter , desert2, jungle , hell  are all the same

Some kind of unusual are the following:
In Winter_forest the water object ( reed and so on,which is ice in winter_forest ) is not walkable !

Dark_forest, scrubland:
Custom 1 Object is walkable! ( Custom 1 is something like Tree/DeadTrees/Ilivetree/DeadPalm... )

Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: wciow on 3 February 2010, 14:40:28
Well I voted to keep all tilesets using the standard Glest convention.

However if you are making a whole mod rather than just a tileset then having a custom tileset for your mod is okay.  ::)
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: titi on 3 February 2010, 14:51:32
Well the problem is what is the glest standard? The three tilesets that come with original glest have different ones ( Forest/Winter_Forest/Dark_Forest )
But I think everyone played Forest first. Dark_Forest hits the market too late because everyone was using my evergreen tileset when it was released.

All my tilesets behave like the Forest tileset and I think this is the standard now :) .

I already started to "fix" Scrubland and Dark_Forest and I think I will fix Winter_Forest too :)
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: John.d.h on 3 February 2010, 20:18:56
I think it's fine for different tilesets to work differently, and probably a good thing because it can change the way the game plays.  If they all play exactly the same, then the only thing that's different is the appearance, and what's the point of that?  Of course the obvious issue is that a map that works fine with one tileset might not work so well with another, but this seems like it would be rare.
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: modman on 3 February 2010, 23:09:58
I would rather that the tilesets be all the same, so that each map can be tileset independent.

An alternate solution would be to somehow specify in the *.gbm file which tilesets the map works with.  But this can be a pain in the arse if you don't actually have the required tileset.
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: ElimiNator on 4 February 2010, 02:07:42
Yes, I think they should be pretty much the same. Not all the modles of course though.
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: Trappin on 16 February 2010, 05:50:23
Quote
Should all tilesets be the same?

Standardize the object list for walkable true/false compatibility - all generic tilesets should conform to a single format. The water object for the Winter_forest tileset (ice rock) walkable <false> but this object is normally walkable <true>. This creates problems for lots of maps and I've modified at least five maps because of this one non-conforming object.

The walkable object in scrubland is also problematic - map designers use object 1 to block or force units to choke-points or into pathing lanes.

Tropical tileset lacks a proper invisible blocking object.

      <object walkable="false">
         <model path="models/bamboo.g3d"/>  

The bamboo model creates a visible object in the slot dedicated to single cell/tile invisible blocking objects.
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: jda on 17 February 2010, 01:29:39
Well I voted to keep all tilesets using the standard Glest convention.

However if you are making a whole mod rather than just a tileset then having a custom tileset for your mod is okay.  ::)
Here is exactly the same, including the vote!

Trappin kind of lost me with his knowledge but for what I've seen of him on the subject, I'm pretty sure he's right! LOL
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: Trappin on 17 February 2010, 16:36:14
Generic refers to tilesets which are not tied to a special function. The following list qualify as generic



    * 1.1 Autumn
    * 1.2 Desert
    * 1.3 Evergreen
    * 1.4 Freek Forest
    * 1.5 Dante's Inferno(Hell)
    * 1.6 Imladris
    * 1.7 Jungle
    * 1.8 Mediterranean
    * 1.9 Pine Woods
    * 1.10 New Winter
    * 1.11 Scrub Land
    * 1.12 Swamp
    * 1.13 Tropical
    * 1.14 Tileset



    * 2.1 Moon
    * 2.2 Volcanic

From the GlestMap (http://glestmaps.wikia.com/wiki/Glest_Map_Editing) wikia:



    * Surface: 1 - grass
    * Surface: 2 - secondary grass
    * Surface: 3 - road
    * Surface: 4 - stone
    * Surface: 5 - undefined tit has upgraded surface5 textures for all megapack tilesets



    * Object: 0 - undefined
    * Object: 1 - tree walkable(false) - wood resource type
    * Object: 2 - dead tree/stump walkable(false)
    * Object: 3 - stones walkable(false)
    * Object: 4 - bush walkable(true)
    * Object: 5 - water object walkable(true)
    * Object: 6 - Custom1 - dead/big tree walkable(false)
    * Object: 7 - Custom2 - hanged/impaled walkable(false)
    * Object: 8 - Custom3 - statues obelisk/technician/broken walkable(false)
    * Object: 9 - Custom4 - mossy rock walkable(false)
    * Object: 10 -Custom5 - invisible object walkable(false)



    * Custom: 0 - none
    * Custom: 1 - gold walkable(false)
    * Custom: 2 - stone walkable(false)
    * Custom: 3 - undefined
    * Custom: 4 - undefined
    * Custom: 5 - undefined

Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: titi on 17 February 2010, 21:40:14
Thanks Trappin,
I should use your strings for the megaglest editor!

By the way, custom5 is already available in all tilesets in megaglest 3.2.3 ( for example in archmages install packages ).
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: Trappin on 17 February 2010, 22:50:20
I should use your strings for the megaglest editor!

megaglest map editor? Please explain... heh.

Martino wrote the map editor guidelines - I just changed how the descriptions are presented/formatted..
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: titi on 18 February 2010, 12:23:12
I just changed the strings in the menu of the megaglest Editor a bit. There are information like "walkable/harvestable" now.
If I can do it, I also want to put the corresponding color into the menu so you know which color is what.

Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: Trappin on 18 February 2010, 18:01:02
From the wiki:

    * Surface: When the surface radio button is selected, users can edit map surface type(s). Surface texture types vary between individual tilesets, but the default settings are:

    * Surface: 1 - grass
    * Surface: 2 - secondary grass
    * Surface: 3 - road
    * Surface: 4 - stone
    * Surface: 5 - undefined

Since titi has added Surface 5 to a number of tilesets we now need to name the surface slot- any suggestions?
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: titi on 18 February 2010, 19:27:17
simply ground ?
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: John.d.h on 18 February 2010, 19:55:35
Since surface 5 seems to vary so much and means something different for each tileset, maybe it should be called "special ground"?
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: ElimiNator on 18 February 2010, 21:20:24
No I think it should be sand.
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: Trappin on 19 February 2010, 00:08:40
Sand textures are in the road surface texture radio button slot.

Most of the older tilesets already have STC5 textures but they look terrible OR integrate poorly with other surface textures within the same tileset.

ground
special ground
secondary ground
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: modman on 20 February 2010, 04:20:22
Did I miss something?  Is there a new, better map editor?
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: wciow on 20 February 2010, 12:39:35
If you D/L any of the new MegaGlest packages they come with new builds of the mapper and g3d veiwer.
Title: Re: Should all tilesets be the same?
Post by: Omega on 25 February 2010, 19:06:42
I'm all for keeping the conventions. For example, in military, all tilesets are modified to fit that convention (that's only winter2 (called simply winter) and dark forest). You can always use them. Commented XMLs too!