MegaGlest Forum
Archives (read only) => Vanilla Glest => General discussion => Topic started by: jda on 26 March 2010, 14:50:17
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A "next GAE release" may never happen. :-X
:o I do believe you have some explaining to do, Mister! >:(
:-\ :( :|
No really... what's up?
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GAE is kinda being brought to mega glest I think (At least some of the features).
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lets just merge them...they are both going on the same path (lets put aside our differences)
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GAE is kinda being brought to mega glest I think (At least some of the features).
Oh, that's a good thing though!
Well... I mean... IF... basically everything in GAE gets into Megaglest! ;)
I still think Titi would have best based megaglest on gae instead of vanilla glest and started by cutting off the unstable/unfinished parts of GAE. If he wanted to add something stable on top of that, then fine! 8) :thumbup:
Man... on GAE:
- Really simple and really useful commands: Autorepair, Guard and Patrol
- WATER UNITS for crying out loud!! Just 'cause nobody took advantage of it yet... :P
- SAVEGAME - I find this UTTERLY ESSENTIAL
- Projectile particle enhanced effects (really a lot more useful than buildinds and units effects if you ask me)
- ALL THE WORK ON THE A* which when done will allow for AMAZING stuff
- PETS!!! (and everything that can be built from them / on top of that)
- Glestimals
- All the stuff that was started but still not finished (e.g. walls, ...)
- All the code restructuring and documenting daniel.santos was doing!!! Everyone says the Glest code is undocumented and often hard do understand. This was THE fix to get a whole lot more programmers working on GAE!!! (and possibly now megaglest...)
And so on and so on and so on ...
EDIT: Another thing in GAE: all the vanilla BUGS that GAE fixed a long time ago: land to air unit morphing, <damage-all="false">, ...
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Yea i think we should restart GAE , i mean it is Leagues away from megaglest don't get me wrong , megaglest is good , but GAE is so much more advanced , like someone said earlier " mega glest is polished and shiny work , while GAE is more under the hood kinda work " something along those lines
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we should just combine them. take all the good parts from both of them, and merge them together
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we should just combine them. take all the good parts from both of them, and merge them together
I agree to some extent. However, you can't always just take parts of one program and put them into another and expect them to work. You could weld the wings of an FA-18 Hornet onto a P-51 Mustang, but it's going to take a lot of rewiring if you want the rockets to fire the way you want. :P
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I say not to combine them, because they are not going on the same path. ::)
Sure they are both developing, but MegaGlest is going for more graphical features and shiny stuff, while GAE is over-hauling all the stuff behind the scenes, I say let them go their own ways and we'll see what we come up with in a few years. ;D
Anyway, we're getting a little off-topic here....... :|
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Indeed we were getting very off topic. I've split this, but I'm not going to make a 'proper' reply just yet, I still need to talk with Hailstone & Yggdrasil, and talk more with titi and softcoder.
I agree to some extent. However, you can't always just take parts of one program and put them into another and expect them to work. You could weld the wings of an FA-18 Hornet onto a P-51 Mustang, but it's going to take a lot of rewiring if you want the rockets to fire the way you want. :P
Nice analogy ;) Accurate in general, like suggestions of talking parts of Spring or some other project and 'plonking' them in Glest. However in this case the two projects are not too disparate, and were obviously based on the same codebase. So it's more like could you take the wings off an FA-18 and put them on an FA-18 B, you could, you just need some welding equipment and some good 'craftsmen'.
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I dont think that melding MG and GAE would be all that difficult...
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you see its very simple when 2 glest's meets it then goes down like this
GAE+MG = MegaGAE
Mega Glest Advanced Engine.
I LIKE IT!
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I really hope they don't because each is taking different development paths, and they trade features which is cool, one engine tends to be more stable while the other tends to be a bit unstable most of the time. Of course each has it's reasons for how stable it is(ie: what features they add).
@Coldfusionstorm: Uh, I'm pretty sure that's never happened before, and I doubt it will happen.
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i think we should, if they are going for similar goals, then they should merge.
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend," and who is the enemy here? It is failure and obscurity. if "MegaGAE" happens, it would benefit both sides.
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They aren't enemies and they are not going for the same goals. :P
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it was a long-shot, but you understand where i am going with this....
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The best thing would be to work together. That is what I would like to see, and hopefully it will happen. We are getting some work from GAE done in Mega-glest (so far from Silnarm), hopefully it will be long term.
:)
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Just make sure, they a compatible with each other, and no one will have any problems (however, it is the toughest job in the end...).
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Hey aren't you the Mac guy? If so could you make binaries for Mega-glest?
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Softcoder.....
That's Kukac. ::)
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The difference of GAE and megaglest is essentially the following:
Megaglest trys to make "small" steps and trys to quickly reach stable releases, which are poolished and player friendly. And it faces the content too, so people play it. Megaglest tries to be a game and beside this people can see what they can do with the engine while playing it.
GAE always was much more developer/modder/feature oriented. There were no real releases which are poolished in the 2 years GAE is developed now.
Of course there are really good features in GAE and some are really working perfectly, but it was and still is more developer oriented and doesn't tries to be a game more an engine which is still under development.
For me there are too many features in GAE which are not well thought out, not finished and whatever. For my opinion its a much better way to start with a stable thing again what I/we did with megaglest. The plan is to keep the things proper and working and to releases working stable things with fitting content very often. These kind of releases will bring us players and modders which all have their fun with the work we did and beside of this, they are automatically our testers!! And they love to "test" because they love to play a fun game ( this includes me and my boys )!!
But to get those "tester" we have to present them poolished version where its fun to test! And those testers/gamers were always missing for GAE!
For me the best idea is to carefully bring good and stable things from GAE to megaglest or to reimplement them there and not to try to bring GAE to a good end.
( By the way, I hope everyone saw my poll for a own Megaglest forum in General Discussions? (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=5284.0) )
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Thank you for stating that, Titi! :) :thumbup:
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I still think that you should merge with GAE cause having them put together with your softcoding and the hardcoding that GAE provides , provides modders and players the best resource available :thumbup:
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I've always liked playing GAE more than MegaGlest. It's mostly just because of handy little things like right-click for gathering points, queuing orders, multiple builders going to a site at once, etc., and bigger stuff like the pathfinder. With GAE, I don't have problems with crashing and as far as I'm concerned it's as stable as Vanilla. I don't mean to break balls or anything, but I don't really get anything more out of MG than I do out of Vanilla, except garbled sounds (presumably fixed by now) and hideous lag from all the extra particles (Flying Carpets, anyone?). Plus I've never had to worry about weird/buggy installers or anything like that. MG has some cool features and I'd like to see them merged into GAE, but... let's just say I'm using GAE features in my mods, not MG features.
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agree completely :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Yeah... I really miss the features of GAE when I'm using MG... ::)
except garbled sounds (presumably fixed by now)
Yeah, it is fixed. :thumbup:
and hideous lag from all the extra particles (Flying Carpets, anyone?)
Hmm...never got that, well never tried that... so...I'll test. :)
But one big big thing MG has over GAE, is 8 player... ::) maybe particles too , but I think both of them are being some what implemented/or just ticketed' into GAE...? :|
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i say that we merge GAE into MG, because i prefer stability over anything else (although i do want all that cool stuff that GAE has).
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Yah, GAE is cool but it needs to be stable, I say port most of the stuff in GAE to MG.
Because i prefer stability over anything else.
Yes, I agree.
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no offense to you guys , but that would be ridiculous. It would be way more simple to just port MG to GAE since they are basically all softcodes and no real hard dev in the coding. Whilst GAE has changed multitude of things that would be rather difficult to port to MG. WE just need them to merge idc what we call it , it could be called WORD TO YOUR MOTHER :|
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No, GAE is not very stable I don't thing that would work, anyways we tried to port MG to GAE a wile back and GAE wouldn't stop crashing so we gave up on GAE.
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GAE is stable for me i haven't had it crash at all never not once least not since i started using it and GLADE is basing its mod on GAE :D
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Do it if you want I am just a modeler for GLADE. And it always crashes for me... Maybe you have a stabler version.
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we are then why not get a stable version of GAE?
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GAE is every bit as stable as MG, in my opinion.
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It is i dont' get this unstable thing at all :confused:
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Stable? MG and GAE? They are both rather usually unstable... ::)
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i haven't had a crash out of GAE and i haven't tried mega glest yet so idk , i still think MG needs to port to GAE or GAE can just implement the softcoding that MG did such as 8 players
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Just to make it well clear, GAE IS unstable, ok, I've gotten crashes out of 'stable versions' of GAE.
MG has it's problems too, neither is perfectly stable!
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Yes, every version I got of GAE has crashed including the "stable" version. Also MG is having problems too.
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The difference of GAE and megaglest is essentially the following:
The difference, I thought, was that GAE is an Engine, Megaglest is a game. Obviously if this were really the case there would be no problem, but Megaglest is clearly not trying to be just a game.
Megaglest trys to make "small" steps and trys to quickly reach stable releases, which are poolished and
player friendly. And it faces the content too, so people play it. Megaglest tries to be a game and beside
this people can see what they can do with the engine while playing it.
Small steps will only get you so far. If you want to make an engine people are going to choose over GAE, you going to need to add a lot a features. If you do this slowly, in small steps, 'tacking' things on without taking into account the bigger picture, your engine is going to be in a far worse state than GAE before too long.
For me there are too many features in GAE which are not well thought out, not finished and whatever.
I'd suggest most of them were better thought out than you credit them, not all, and many were/are unfinished, but because you think you can do it better is no reason to throw it all away. Some incomplete things are going to be removed, and any not so well thought out stuff will be looked at and fixed or replaced as appropriate.
For my opinion its a much better way to start with a stable thing again what I/we did with megaglest.
I completely disagree, GAE is getting more and more stable, new things are added, new bugs are introduced, that's life, if they get reported, they get found and fixed. This will be no different in megaglest.
GAE is, at least, intermittently refactored, to make the stuff added less crap, and to make planned new stuff easier to implement (ie, to implement in less crap ways to start with).
For me the best idea is to carefully bring good and stable things from GAE to megaglest or to reimplement them there and not to try to bring GAE to a good end.
While I wish you well, I think you are somewhat misguided, the way forward is to use the better base, and that is GAE.
Regarding crashing, all I have to say is "you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs". If crashes are reported, they get fixed.
Long live the advanced engine!
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viva la GAE :thumbup:
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Long live the advanced engine!
Yeah, AND MG too... ::) :O
Small steps will only get you so far. If you want to make an engine people are going to choose over GAE, you going to need to add a lot a features. If you do this slowly, in small steps, 'tacking' things on without taking into account the bigger picture, your engine is going to be in a far worse state than GAE before too long.
True, but too slow is not too good either... ::) Think of Original Glest, or rather Vanilla Glest, I guess... :|
Now, this thread seems to fit more in the General Discussion board... since we are talking about MG AND GAE... :|
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Ok, whatever, maybe Megaglest is the right way or GAE is the right way, we will see.
Lets all stay friends, help each other and stay one glest community. We all do this for fun!
Maybe some kind of competition is good for a faster glest development in future ;)
By the way, we should really use the "Announcements" again. If GAE has to announce something in the future, just make a post in the forum and tell me that I should move it there.
( I move this to General Discussions now )
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( I move this to General Discussions now )
Cool, you took my advice. ::) :O
Ok, whatever, maybe Megaglest is the right way or GAE is the right way, we will see.
Lets all stay friends, help each other and stay one glest community. We all do this for fun!
Yep. :) :thumbup:
Maybe some kind of competition is good for a faster glest development in future
I suppose. ::) But GAE seems to be really slow... ::) Wouldn't that be unfair... :|
Now if original/vanilla Glest could... ::) If it had the features of MG and/or GAE, surely Glest would be more.... ::)
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I just don't understand why their can't be a merger i mean really that would make it so much better , but then again i guess competition brings out the best of people so go at it , but so far i'm on GAE's Side and there are sides :P
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Working together would be best. That is what I wanted. Here is my opinion of the state of things:
#1 Titi and I tried to work with GAE a few months ago (I was looking at porting over stable network code and Titi was looking at porting new particle code). I cannot speak for Tit, but I tested GAE with my boys and we kept having crashes with GAE. I then proceeded to have my boys test GAE without multi-player and still it would crash after playing for 15-20 minutes. I am only working on this project as a desire of my children since they like to make content and play it. Since we tried numerous times to play GAE and it kept crashing for us we decided to go back to mega-glest (which as far as we were concerned was a new continuation of glest 3.2.2 which we knew was somewhat stable).
#2 Silnarm had mentioned in IRC that he would like to start working on mega-glest (we had a chat with him Titi and myself). At this time I thought things would work well since we would have experience glest coders from GAE working together with a stable code base. Yesterday we finally saw some posts in the forums as well as was confirmed in IRC that the GAE team desires to continue with GAE and they won't be very active in mega-glest.
At this point what would any of you do in the community if faced with the same situation? I don't care for "this is better than that" kind of discussions, I just want to work with something that doesn't crash for my boys (they know the Glest community far better than I do.. Elimnator, Tiger, Piggy and Monk). They use the software nearly every day and write models, scripts etc. they know what works and what doesn't work for them.
Thanks
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Thank you for that well explained example of how you tried to merge , I just don't get the crashing cause i seriously have not had it crash yet , well the newest one at all , but i mean previous versions i have , but this new version is very stable in my opinion and thank you for your contribution to the glest community :thumbup:
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Well, for me, GAE is pretty stable ::) , (not sure will have to test again) (I found two problems with GAE, one after another... :O ) (But uh, MG is like that too.)
At this point what would any of you do in the community if faced with the same situation? I don't care for "this is better than that" kind of discussions, I just want to work with something that doesn't crash for my boys (they know the Glest community far better than I do.. Elimnator, Tiger, Piggy and Monk). They use the software nearly every day and write models, scripts etc. they know what works and what doesn't work for them.
Agreed', this thread isn't even really for that. :|
OT 1 : Ha, knew it bout piggy'
OT 2: Same for Monk
OT 3: Can you get Monk to post his winter faction? Thanks.
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Heck, the only time I had GAE crash was on 0.2.13-rc1 (as posted in the appropriate thread and I think it's been fixed (I haven't tried later releases yet)?). I've been using GAE since 0.2.11 or 0.2.12 (not sure now).
And it rocks. ;)
MG is good too, I like it. But I actually dislike the scripts that were made (at least for Linux) to call the actual binaries (makes it harder to have things organised as in "several Glest related engines" using basically the same data (or easily chosen which to use) and being called by similar user (myself) defined (written and placed) scripts. And that's not really user-friendly.
Man... can I abuse parentesis () sometimes... ;D
Now... I haven't coded anything other than DOS batch files and linux shell scripts in like some 18 or 19 years but...
Definitely... merging GAE and MG is most likely NOT that easy. As said several times, GAE did a lot of work under the hood... Just 'cause they look similar to you doesn't mean their codes are anything like that. :P
This said... it would be nice to have them merge (whishful thinking). But the competition has its pros too. ;)
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MEGA GAE! :)
but gae must 8 players! its a must!
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Wait, I is not yet? They should port the code.
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Working together would be best. That is what I wanted. Here is my opinion of the state of things:
This would have been my preference too, indeed this was my preference. That's why when I started tinkering with the code, and with Glest proper either discontinued or at the least the original programmer unwilling to work with others, I joined 'the' active fork. I didn't start my own.
It's also why I was willing to give up on GAE and work on megaglest, because I don't see that this community is big enough for two forks. But my actions at the time were driven by a kind of panic, upon seeing megaglest working on things GAE already has, or things we've got in pipeline. But my original fears, and those of other GAE team members, did not go away, indeed if anything, they just grew.
Working together would be best, and the invitation to work on GAE is still, and will remain, open.
Cheers.
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Accept it , you know you want to , heck if my coding was any better than what it is now i would jump on your ship for sure cause the work in GAE is alot in my opinion i'm just a beginner , but it looks massive and you have alot of features that i love such as the pet and poison etc... :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Well I'm still on board with testing for GAE, I just don't have alot of time for Glest atm. Most of my modding time is being taken up mapping for Saurbraten :P
BTW if anyone wants to know why GAE might crash look at the release number 0.2.13 thats alpha quality software people!
If you want something thats already stable go test MegaGlest. If you want to work at the sharp end GAE is perfect. The biggest problem is that so much of what goes into GAE is completely untested due to a lack of testers :(
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Working together would be best. That is what I wanted. Here is my opinion of the state of things:
This would have been my preference too, indeed this was my preference. That's why when I started tinkering with the code, and with Glest proper either discontinued or at the least the original programmer unwilling to work with others, I joined 'the' active fork. I didn't start my own.
Same here. I would love to work together. Divided we are weaker.
I don't see a way to merge GAE into megaglest. You stated it multiple times that GAE is too buggy for your taste, so we won't see many features ported from GAE as you want to be as stable as possible. Also porting from GAE will be more error prone than the other way round because of all the refactoring/changes especially in shared_lib. There are just more changes than currently in megaglest (I did not follow megaglest's development so i'm not aware of all your additions).
Leaving GAE and just joining megaglest also is not an option. Do you really expect us to throw our work away and maybe partly rewrite it? Where's the fun in that?
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It's also why I was willing to give up on GAE and work on megaglest, because I don't see that this community is big enough for two forks. But my actions at the time were driven by a kind of panic, upon seeing megaglest working on things GAE already has, or things we've got in pipeline.
I mostly agree (maybe bompletelly).
I do think the Glest community is not big enough to have two forks.
I would prefer that GAE and MG were the same project or else tighty bound together (like there was talk, long before vanilla Glest development was dropped) that vanilla would incorporate GAE (in whole or partially) into itself).
Still, it's not just the code merging problems, it's the people working on the code too.
In the longer run, I truelly believe GAE will be a much better (and more stable) engine than MG, mainly because there has been a lot done (and still being done) "under the hood" in GAE that will make further improvements much easier, more coherent and stable than what the vanilla Glest (which is still hugelly most of what MG is) allows.
Sure, MG is working on that too (I recall a talk I had with Titi on the irc not long ago) but... is starting.,, At some point, I'm pretty sure MG will have to mess so deep in the code as GAE (for what I gather) has already done / is doing and by then... MG will be getting the same criticism GAE gets now. And GAE will likely have gone past that and be much more stable then.
/ Nostradamus mode
But the people who make GAE and MG are the main path-makers of this all and they are people. People are immensely more complex than computers. :P