MegaGlest Forum
Off topic => Off topic => Topic started by: xxcatmysteryxx on 28 May 2010, 21:52:49
-
What do you think? Illegal/ Legal
-
illegal of course, they can stay in their own country, imagine if your country were to welcome all the poor from U-countries...
-
illegal Mexicans coming to U.S should go back to their own county and stop stealing our jobs and they should actually learn English if they come but they don't
-
they are a**holes crossing your border to sell drugs right?
-
Depends,
like that Arizona bill, the problem with it is racial profiling... :(
-
they are a**holes crossing your border to sell drugs right?
yeah they sell drugs too
Depends,
like that Arizona bill, the problem with it is racial profiling... :(
the black person or was he/she Mexican i can't remember was sticking up for a illegals but no wonder
(i just heard about the bill like yesterday)
-
you americans should not turn racist just because of immigrants....not that you aint... Talking about general public
-
I'm in full agreement, Immigrants can stay in their own country, instead of destroying ours.
USA is for US citizens.
-
Exactly, and if you come here come legally and adapt to this country, not adapting it to yourself, look into every big store in the US at the self service and you see two choices English and Espanol, it really gets me angry seeing it everywhere >:( >:( :bomb:
-
Well it's good for people that are vacationing from say, Spain, they stay in a hotel for a few weeks, need groceries. They go to the store and wallah, they can pay for it in their own language.
But they should be required to show a slip from their hotel or something that says they are vacationing.
-
But its not done for people from spain its done for mexicans >:( >:(, I don't see signs in French or Russian anywhere
-
To be fair, wasn't this country forged by mass genocide of all the native tribes? Telling immigrants to stay out is pretty egregiously hypocritical, isn't it?
Anyway, this really isn't a politics forum. :P
-
The native tribes were slaughtering themselves :P
-
The native tribes were slaughtering themselves :P
... and then we gave them smallpox. ::)
-
True, but are you gonna cover up for the Aztecs who slaughtered hundreds of thousands to satisfy their gods >:( >:(, their subjects helped the spanish in their conquest.
-
Guys, that happened hundreds of years ago! A lot has changed since then. This is a good country, though it was forged in a terrible manner, it is still a good country!
Just because our ancestors did that, doesn't mean that we have to sit by and let our country be taken over.
-
True, but are you gonna cover up for the Aztecs who slaughtered hundreds of thousands to satisfy their gods >:( >:(, their subjects helped the spanish in their conquest.
No, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. What I'm saying is that we took this nation by force, treachery, and murder, so how do we have any more right to be here than anybody else? Do Mexicans have to stage a military coup and unleash biological weapons on us to have a right to be here (since that's what we did to supposedly "earn" the right to be here)?
-
Now but they should adapt to america not just come here to make another mexico.
-
Now but they should adapt to america not just come here to make another mexico.
yeah... also i hate seeing English or espanol on signs and stores it drives me crazy
-
Now but they should adapt to america not just come here to make another mexico.
... and what is America, other than a combination of influences from other nations? Our language, our food, our architecture, our music... almost all of it is brought here from other countries.
-
Now but they should adapt to america not just come here to make another mexico.
... and what is America, other than a combination of influences from other nations? Our language, our food, our architecture, our music... almost all of it is brought here from other countries.
yeah true but..... um yea but not to a point that's its ruining America but Mexicans yah
-
One other point is that America wasn't started by uh... "Americans"... ::)
That's what some people say...
-
America is a mix of nations, true, but why if this is a mix of nations do we not have signs in the language of every nation that has people here. The US has one language one army, and so on, not a language or army for every non native person here
-
English and Spanish is the majority people speak here (Spanish wouldn't be majority if it weren't for Mexico
-
Really, french is quite popular, a question why don't mexicans fix mexico instead of coming to the US, I don't see any problems with canadians running across the border.
-
Where I live, English and Spanish are probably about even, with a lot of Hindi, Arabic, and Chinese. I think French is only really popular in places near Quebec, and then there's a lot of Creole in Louisiana and Miami. I do think that everybody should have to learn English to move to America, but that's really just a matter of practicality. I have no problem with people speaking their own languages amongst themselves.
Maybe we should just all learn Lojban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban) instead? :P
-
Well...English is actually kind hard to learn...probably even harder for the elderly ::)
Nothing wrong with the language...
Sometimes it is even harder to learn english then whatever language they are speaking ::)
-
This is our country, a war was fought and we became independent from England. The illegal immigrants should get out and stay out.
Do you question England's being a country? They were once barbarians, and fought other barbarians for land.
Do you also question that the Roman Empire was an Empire? The Romans were extremely tough, their military was the best the Ancient World had ever seen, they got most of their Empire through fighting and massacring people.
How America became a country doesn't matter. Illegal immigrants don't belong in America, this isn't their country.
The Indians fought back, we were superior. American vs Illegal immigrants, we're superior again(we should peacefully find them, and hand them over to the countries that they came from, using minimal force, and only if necessary).
-
Yes, America fought for its independence. You, however, didn't. Neither you nor I were alive back then, so what did we (you, I, and everybody else alive in the United States in 2010) do to earn the privilege to be here?
-
Everyone fights in their own way John.
My method is fighting politically against Socialism, Communism, etc... I'm what you might call a freedom fighter.
Besides, when Romulus died did Rome fall, no. America is simply our country, we were born to this nation.
-
I think this just about sums up my rebuttal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGU4zXcuQgc
-
Really, french is quite popular, a question why don't mexicans fix mexico instead of coming to the US, I don't see any problems with canadians running across the border.
I don't see no French signs or French as a option its because most French can also speak English. Anyways Mexicans come to U.S to have a better life and to find work because they get payed so low in Mexico
Maybe we should just all learn Lojban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban) instead? :P
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/lojban.png)
xkcd...
-
Then they should adapt to the US not try to turn it into another mexico. :look:
-
They should fix their own country.
-
Besides, when Romulus died did Rome fall, no.
What :O
My method is fighting politically against Socialism, Communism, etc... I'm what you might call a freedom fighter.
The cold war is over Arch, it is safe to leave your house ;)
You've also hit on one of my pet hates, namely that during the cold war Americans were brainwashed into believing that socialism == communism, it is not.
BTW around 1:35 in that video sums up the life of most americans. I really have nothing against Americans, but then I've never seen the 'real' america (I've been to Disney and Vegas :O )
P.S, I also have nothing against illegal immigrants when they are better than the current residents, mexican food is so tasty :P
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYAm9Gv-Zcc
-
OK, I don't really like the illegal immigrants who just take all of the jobs...
then again sometimes it is the real low paying jobs, or no pay at or ::) maybe less then minimum wage.
The actual problem with it, or one of the problems, is racial profiling...
so as in Arizona, that is the main problem of that bill. ::)
@John
:O
-
Its not racial profiling its against all illegals regardless of race :P :P, the bill says nothing about stopping mexicans or hispanics which is what you are getting at.
-
Quote from: -Archmage- on Today at 03:05:29
My method is fighting politically against Socialism, Communism, etc... I'm what you might call a freedom fighter.
The cold war is over Arch, it is safe to leave your house Wink
Of course it's safe to leave my house, I guess you just aren't informed about what's happening in America right now.
-
yep now you got healtcare and can go out and injure yourself as mucha sd you please...
-
yep now you got healtcare and can go out and injure yourself as mucha sd you please...
Yea, and everyone else is forced to pay for me to get "fixed". Socialism! *puke*
-
mhm our society is built on the concpet "trust" if i build houses, i help others to build houses, i get paid, i buy food and the food-seller-guy gets money for the food...
Socialism everywere!
i think socialism is misunderstood word...
-
Its not racial profiling its against all illegals regardless of race :P :P, the bill says nothing about stopping mexicans or hispanics which is what you are getting at.
It's not supposed to be racial profiling, but in the end, if it's passed, it will... ::)
-
This is getting Off topic make a different topic for socialism debates.
Its not racial profiling its against all illegals regardless of race :P :P, the bill says nothing about stopping mexicans or hispanics which is what you are getting at.
It's not supposed to be racial profiling, but in the end, if it's passed, it will... ::)
My answer to this I know it will target hispanics but they're the ones sneaking across the US border.
-
This is getting Off topic make a different topic for socialism debates.Its not racial profiling its against all illegals regardless of race :P :P, the bill says nothing about stopping mexicans or hispanics which is what you are getting at.
It's not supposed to be racial profiling, but in the end, if it's passed, it will... ::)
My answer to this I know it will target hispanics but they're the ones sneaking across the US border.
Yeah, well, if this bill does pass, then, it will really suck for the actual legal ones... ::) :(
Of course, a lot of people don't care...and a lot do. ::)
-
mhm our society is built on the concpet "trust" if i build houses, i help others to build houses, i get paid, i buy food and the food-seller-guy gets money for the food...
Socialism everywere!
i think socialism is misunderstood word...
ANARCHY!!!
-
Socialism is anti-freedom.
-
Socialism is anti-freedom.
Do you actually know what socialism is?
(That's something of a rhetorical question, since I think I already know the answer to that.)
-
I vote for legal! Personally, I'm all for freedom, open borders, and equality for all. They're stealing your jobs? Are they that better applicants than you? Perhaps your resume is... lacking?
From Wikipedia:
Socialism is a political philosophy that encompasses various theories of economic organization based on either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources. A more comprehensive definition of socialism is an economic system that directly maximizes use-values as opposed to exchange-values and has transcended commodity production and wage labour, along with a corresponding set of social and economic relations, including the organization of economic institutions, the method of resource allocation and post-monetary calculation based on some physical magnitude; often implying a method of compensation based on individual merit, the amount of labour expended or individual contribution.
-
They're stealing your jobs? Are they that better applicants than you? Perhaps your resume is... lacking?
I'm inclined to agree. That's the reason we outsource so many of our tech support jobs to India. They're willing to work for less because they don't have this BS western sense of entitlement. It seems like most Americans would rather be unemployed than have a job where they don't make $30k/year or actually have to put forth an effort.
-
They're stealing your jobs? Are they that better applicants than you? Perhaps your resume is... lacking?
I'm inclined to agree. That's the reason we outsource so many of our tech support jobs to India. They're willing to work for less because they don't have this BS western sense of entitlement. It seems like most Americans would rather be unemployed than have a job where they don't make $30k/year or actually have to put forth an effort.
Sorta, sorta not. Their cost of living is lower than in the US.
But I have to agree with what you have been saying thus far, John and Omega. America is a country of immigrants. And plus, who came up with the idea that socialism had anything to do with immigration? If America was Laissez-faire capitallist (like Archmage wants) then it would support immigrants because it would allow for cheaper labor in America. It would benefit "small businesses".
Anyways, like it or not, you live in a society, and there is a cost attached to this privilege. It is called a tax. Taxes make sure society prospers, because it's prosperity helps us out personally.
-
They're stealing your jobs? Are they that better applicants than you? Perhaps your resume is... lacking?
I'm inclined to agree. That's the reason we outsource so many of our tech support jobs to India. They're willing to work for less because they don't have this BS western sense of entitlement. It seems like most Americans would rather be unemployed than have a job where they don't make $30k/year or actually have to put forth an effort.
Sorta, sorta not. Their cost of living is lower than in the US.
But I have to agree with what you have been saying thus far, John and Omega. America is a country of immigrants. And plus, who came up with the idea that socialism had anything to do with immigration? If America was Laissez-faire capitallist (like Archmage wants) then it would support immigrants because it would allow for cheaper labor in America. It would benefit "small businesses".
Anyways, like it or not, you live in a society, and there is a cost attached to this privilege. It is called a tax. Taxes make sure society prospers, because it's prosperity helps us out personally.
Illegal's don't have to pay tax
And most Americans are lazy and wouldn't want to work hard labor to earn less money
-
I hate to say this but we pay taxes for hospitals and stuff and guess what, our taxes for the hospitals are then used to save the mexicans from death after they get shot by the national guard trying to sneak across the border >:( >:(, it makes me mad to know that legal peoples taxes are going to preserve illegals
-
I hate to say this but we pay taxes for hospitals and stuff and guess what, our taxes for the hospitals are then used to save the mexicans from death after they get shot by the national guard trying to sneak across the border >:( >:(, it makes me mad to know that legal peoples taxes are going to preserve illegals
haha I didn't think of that but I agree
-
I hate to say this but we pay taxes for hospitals and stuff and guess what, our taxes for the hospitals are then used to save the mexicans from death after they get shot by the national guard trying to sneak across the border >:( >:(, it makes me mad to know that legal peoples taxes are going to preserve illegals
haha I didn't think of that but I agree
Its true though
-
Well, our taxes are being paid for even "worse" ...reasons...let's call them stuff... ::)
And most Americans are lazy and wouldn't want to work hard labor to earn less money
Yep, and as part of their "job" (not really,...) they work those jobs...for americans.. ::)
-
Illegal's don't have to pay tax
Duh. Conservatives want to make it very difficult for illegals to become naturalized, and until they do, they can't pay income taxes.
it makes me mad to know that legal peoples taxes are going to preserve illegals
Doctors take an oath, and they have to operate on anyone. Seriously, it is not up to the surgeon to make legal decisions on whether someone deserves to live, only to get the patient safely out of the hospital.
Blocking the border isn't going to prevent Mexican criminals from coming across the border, but it will prevent more productive members from entering the US. Those are the people we want here; they commit little crime. Otherwise, the jobs go to China and India, and America becomes a country of rich executives.
-
I'm not saying they don't deserve to be saved but they shouldn't sneak here in the first place.
-
Yeah, the US is kinda relying on the immigrants cause it would harm their economy is they did not accept those..
-
Yeah, the US is kinda relying on the immigrants cause it would harm their economy is they did not accept those..
Yeah, basically...
Another considerable "flaw" of the whole US thing.
-
So how long would US stand without immigrants you think?
-
employers would just have to pay workers more if it wasn't for immigrants, they're taking our jobs
-
But yet the US isn`t sustained as well economically wthout them...It would be a disaster if all illegal immigrants were to be thrown out, your economy would ruin, and you would have more of the china mess...
-
they're taking our jobs
You want pay that is under the minimum wage? ::)
So how long would US stand without immigrants you think?
Who knows, that is like a "what if...____" . ::)
Which again, another "problem" or not with the US thing.
-
they're taking our jobs
You want pay that is under the minimum wage? ::)
So how long would US stand without immigrants you think?
Who knows, that is like a "what if...____" . ::)
Which again, another "problem" or not with the US thing.
Immigrant Apocalypse!!! (spelled wrong i think)
also no one would want less then minuium wage but they want it because its better than nothing and in their own country
-
I saw that once the governemnt in US thought abotu removing them, they saw that then they would ruin US economy, so they said that the problem weren`t so big afterall...sorry, but you are relying on immigrants...
-
Speaking of the minimum wage, that stupid law needs to be removed.
-
Why?
-
So that companies can treat their workers even worse, of course. ;D
-
But yet the US isn`t sustained as well economically wthout them...It would be a disaster if all illegal immigrants were to be thrown out, your economy would ruin, and you would have more of the china mess...
I just think the funny thing about the Arizona bill is that it punishes illegals, but does nothing about the small businesses who hire them. That would harm "small business owners". No no, social conservatives always have to be xenophobic...
-
Hyper cube... You're gabbe? You really got to stop changing your name and picture so much... :confused:
Arch, why would you want to remove min wage?!? That's the only thing keeping me from going bankrupt! Don't you have a job?
-
Hyper cube... You're gabbe? You really got to stop changing your name and picture so much... :confused:
Arch, why would you want to remove min wage?!? That's the only thing keeping me from going bankrupt! Don't you have a job?
I doubt he has a job too young, but yeah why take away the minimum wage, you'd end up earning 20cents a week if you did.
-
Hyper cube... You're gabbe? You really got to stop changing your name and picture so much... :confused:
Arch, why would you want to remove min wage?!? That's the only thing keeping me from going bankrupt! Don't you have a job?
I doubt he has a job too young, but yeah why take away the minimum wage, you'd end up earning 20cents a week if you did.
Indeed. Very foolish thing to say Arch.
-
So that companies can treat their workers even worse, of course. ;D
This really would happen the moment the minimum wage law was lifted, business owners would barely pay anyone
-
Arch, why would you want to remove min wage?!? That's the only thing keeping me from going bankrupt! Don't you have a job?
My thought exactly! Do you want to get payed $1 an hour!
-
The measly $9.25 I make is hard to cover the cost of being a teen...
-
I have a job...it is a noob job... i earn about 400 NOK a week selling newpaper... i don+t have a miniomum wage, i get money for the number of newspapers i sell.
yeas im gabbe, but you know me know and i won+t change to any other name other than gabbe or hypercube from now.
-
I'm too young to earn for a living, but I'm trying to find work and I'm coaching gymnastics on occasion as an assistant and you get payed eight bucks a hour, if there wasn't a minimum wage it would be more like 50cents an hour, Arch you must be insane to not want minimum wage
-
If arch is to create his own buisnis [which is likely since he isn`t going for a education] then without minimum wage he would be a lucky man.
-
If arch is to create his own buisnis [which is likely since he isn`t going for a education] then without minimum wage he would be a lucky man.
True but he won't get many workers if all he offers is 50 cents wage
-
If arch is to create his own buisnis [which is likely since he isn`t going for a education] then without minimum wage he would be a lucky man.
True but he won't get many workers if all he offers is 50 cents wage
If the minimum wage were exterminated, the ones having stores would lower wage too, if everyone lowered wage, they wouldn`t need to pay much because you couldn`t get a job that offers more anywere anyways.
-
Ah no the one who offers the most wage would get the most workers or everyone opens a business, and the economy crashes :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :bomb:
-
yep your right...Us economy is going bad anyways...
-
The whole worlds economy is falling apart not just the US economy, the only country that is doing good is Brazil
-
lmao yeah, i estimate around 5 years till western european complete crack down...
-
Will you guys please turn your brains on? The on switch is located on the back of your head.
It would be much more beneficial for the company to pay reasonable amounts than not to. ::)
If they didn't pay reasonable amounts then people would just leave and the company would fall apart. Basically, for the companies survival it needs to pay it's workers reasonable amounts.
Without minimum wage you don't have to go to college! You can learn on the job! It also opens up many other possibilities.
With minimum wage you need college degrees to get good paying jobs! Even then, you have to have the right college degrees for a job, because why should the company have to pay an unqualified person so much an hour. Without minimum wage, you can offer to work for a company that deals in something you haven't even heard of, you can work for free as you learn on the job, and then you can talk to your boss about your progress, and try for a pay raise.
Omega, I thought you were for freedom. Minimum wage restricts freedom where it simply doesn't need to be restricted.
-
Without minimum wage you don't have to go to college!
YEY! because then you`ve made the right choice..
Without minimum wage would only those WITH degrees get jobs because so many people would get jobless and then companies would only hire people with degrees because they are more qualified.
You can learn on the job!
We have such thing in Norway that you can take a degree and still have a job and learning, getting both a degree and job qualification from the place you`ve worked at.
It also opens up many other possibilities.
Like the opportunity to pay workers less? i wouldn`t necessarily call that a beneficial possibility...
With minimum wage you need college degrees to get good paying jobs!
Ah now i get what your saying, but wouldn`t degrees still help on getting good payed jobs? I mean, i would rather hire a person with good degrees rather than one drop-out...You need to think further..
Even then, you have to have the right college degrees for a job, because why should the company have to pay an unqualified person so much an hour. Without minimum wage, you can offer to work for a company that deals in something you haven't even heard of, you can work for free as you learn on the job, and then you can talk to your boss about your progress, and try for a pay raise.
So what is being suggested is that you want the opportunity to get jobs when not being payed much? I still think a degree would be better but...
Omega, I thought you were for freedom.
How can a religious person be...
Minimum wage restricts freedom where it simply doesn't need to be restricted.
What if the companies teamed up to get the pay down to the minimum?
-
The minimum wage is not aimed at the majority of employers who reconise the need to pay their staff a living wage. Any job involving skills will have competition and thus wages will rise. The rarer the skill the more competition and thus more money is available for highly skilled employees. The minimum wage is aimed at those who exploit the unskilled poor by paying them very low wages. It is in essentially a state mechanism to ensure all workers are able to support themselves on their wages.
-
I think Wciow hit the nail right on the head, but just to expand a bit...
It would be much more beneficial for the company to pay reasonable amounts than not to. ::)
If they didn't pay reasonable amounts then people would just leave and the company would fall apart. Basically, for the companies survival it needs to pay it's workers reasonable amounts.
If that were true, no one would work for McDonald's or WalMart, because they both treat their employees like garbage. Workers simply have nowhere else to go, so even if they were making a dime a day they'd still have no choice.
Without minimum wage, you can offer to work for a company that deals in something you haven't even heard of, you can work for free as you learn on the job, and then you can talk to your boss about your progress, and try for a pay raise.
That already exists. Look up the term "internship".
-
Pretty much everything you said seems mixed up! It all supports my statement, not yours!
Without minimum wage you don't have to go to college! You can learn on the job! It also opens up many other possibilities.
Quite the opposite. Without minimum wage, everyone would go to college because a job flipping burgers won't even cover the gas to get there. I've yet to see a job requiring a college degree that offers minimum wage.
learn on the job, and then you can talk to your boss about your progress, and try for a pay raise.
No way dude. There is a such thing as apprenticeship, generally used for carpentry, mechanics, electricians, etc where they earn basic wages (which are still above minimum) where they work while learning, WHILE BEING PAID. It has nothing to do with minimum wage as well. And even with minimum wage, you can still try and ask for a pay raise (good luck though. But hey, it's better to earn minimum than going from $0.50 an hour to $0.75 an hour, though an optimist might put it as "a 50% raise").
Omega, I thought you were for freedom. Minimum wage restricts freedom where it simply doesn't need to be restricted.
Again, opposite. Minimum wage is a necessity to freedom to keep companies from having all the power. In a free society, corporations do not have the power to pay people $0.50 an hour, thankfully, which couldn't pay for a pack of gum these days. Minimum wages assure that people are not manipulated and are given some degree of equality.
Also, what Wciow said "hits the nail right on the head".
-
Not having minimum wage is bad because it stops company's from treating there worker bad and not paying them for the hard work people do. And ILLEGAL immigrants get payed lower is because they are here illegally and don't have proper forms so people can pay them lower because there is no document saying they have to get payed minimum wage