MegaGlest Forum
Archives (read only) => Vanilla Glest => General discussion => Topic started by: Omega on 9 June 2010, 22:31:12
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Does anyone have any hopes like me that we can combine the three versions of glest some day? I think it is indeed possible, since vanilla glest has no advantages over either of the other two, thus allowing it to be easily replaced. GAE recently reverted to 3.2.2's multiplayer (for the time being) which was the main reason Titi mentioned to have split off his own project. Neither GAE nor MG have a lot of developers, and I believe that both would benefit better if they shared those developers between one project.
Megaglest's main bonuses over GAE are the 8 player support, soon-to-be master server support, particle effects, and improved map formats. GAE's main bonuses are Emanations, Effects, Auto-return, Auto-repair, game saving, and improved Lau. Now imagine both of these projects together! We know that both are going to, without doubt, eventually copy ideas from the other (ie: GAE is going to impliment Titi's particle effects, and eventually have support for more players, which will require his map format).
Does anyone agree with me that such projects would benefit from a merge? Especially if we can convince Martino to also put a download link for that version of Glest on the main page.
:)
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Especially if we can convince Martino to also put a download link for that version of Glest on the main page.
Well, in the future people might get confused, but we'll see...basically that would be great though, with a few problems.
Well yes, someday, but after at least MG is fully stable on multiplayer (around 90% OK now IMO) and GAE reaches v. 0.3.
Also, I thought we already discussed this.
https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=5236.50
hmm... :|
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It would be good if possible but we tried it before and it didn't work...
BTW: What is Emanations and Effects? Like what good are they what do they do?
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It would be good if possible but we tried it before and it didn't work...
That doesn't mean we can't at least try to get everybody working towards the same goals. We all just want an improved game, right?
BTW: What is Emanations and Effects? Like what good are they what do they do?
They add variety to gameplay. Without them, your units are really just different combinations of hit points and damage values. Effects can be things like causing continuous damage after the attack (like poison) or modifying the parameters of the target or the unit making the attack, such as movement speed, attack speed, and site radius (so you can hit a guy with a special attack that makes him go blind). Emanations are basically effects that are always on, and they radiate out from the unit. For example, any friendly unit standing near your commander might get an attack bonus, or any units standing near your zombie might get sick.
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It would be good if possible but we tried it before and it didn't work...
What John said, also, it was kinda different before, so it would be a good possibility that this could happen...in the future at at least ::)...
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Also, I thought we already discussed this... ::)
https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=5236.50
hmm... ::)
Interesting... I must have missed that.
It would be good if possible but we tried it before and it didn't work...
How could it not work?
BTW: What is Emanations and Effects? Like what good are they what do they do?
Effects are basically an added effect to an attack. For example, Military's nuke has an effect called "Radiation Poisoning". It reduces the rate your units work at while sapping all HP (and it does stack, so the more nukes, the worse the radiation poisoning is). Effects don't have to reduce stats though, they can do whatever can be done with both multipliers and static modifiers (ie: A multiplier of 0 will turn that stat an instant 0, while a static modifier of 5 will modify it by exactly 5).
Emanations are basically the same thing, but instead of coming out of attacks, they are bound to a specific unit and effect all units around that fit the emanation criteria. For example, you can give an emanation that makes all enemies within x paces slowly drain HP. An example is in military, the medic boosts the regen rate of nearby units, and the stealth bomber causes the air raid emanation, demoraling foes to reduce their stats (but make 'em run faster!).
Another feature related to that I didn't previously mention is that GAE lets you define how stats increase when your units level up. For example, when the tank levels up to become a heavy tank, its HP, Armor, and Attack increase, but nothing else.
While I wouldn't expect anything immediately, I think the community is far too small to have so many branches of the program! Most people turn up on the board without even knowing what GAE/MG are! Not to mention that it would get even more confusing since we have lots of mods being developed, and eventually there would be some for vanilla, GAE, and MG! While both GAE and MG are backwards compatible with each other, MG will probably never catch up to GAE, though GAE may catch up to MG faction-wise quite soon.
After all, GAE is missing MG's map format, the number of players (though they plan to implement a massive 16 last I heard, though they may rethink that down to 8), the particle effects (can't remember when, but Silnarm said they'd be coming very soon, along with particle effects for emanations/effects). After that, all of MG's mods should work with GAE.
Concerning Stability: I've never considered either to be completely stable. One must remember though, we don't really release any "officially stable" versions, since the testing of the (very few) programmers alone is not enough to consider it stable. Therefor, every version of GAE/MG that you download is actually just another beta version. Even if silnarm, etc states it as stable, that's still only to him, and it still must be tested by the community. You cannot expect things to be stable really until well after its been released, at the next version, at which point, there may be new things that make it unstable again. Large corporations have huge testing teams to counteract this. We do not. We, the users of the program, are also the testers.
I've never seen many bugs in either, except for one (abet, bad one) in a RC, not counting my past crashes which were caused by an outdated graphics card (:-[). I've never played MG enough to say how stable it is to me (I don't play multiplayer much, and the particles and extra players aren't so huge of a deal that I can pass up my simple GAE features like auto-repair and auto-return (cannot live without them! Micromanaging that is the pits).
My verdict? MEGA GAE!
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It would probably be good if the projects combined.
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MG will probably never catch up to GAE, though GAE may catch up to MG faction-wise quite soon.
Maybe not but I don't think GAE will catch up to MG ether.
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Well, the best thing you could do is delete your OT posts... ::)
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My verdict? MEGA GAE!
Later, later, later, as I have said.
As there is a chance, that maybe it will...but also an equal chance of not... :|
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Later? The longer they wait, the harder it's going to be.
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Well, that is unfortunately how is has to be...also, the time zone problem..etc. ::)
Work.
Differences. ::)
Etc.
Well, MG is getting more stable, don't know about GAE, not enough testers probably. :|
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Well, MG is getting more stable, don't know about GAE, not enough testers probably. :|
Dunno about that... I've had no problems with the current release of either, but judging from the posts on their boards, MG has a lot more bugs.
One big beef I have with MG though is the huge file size! I want to download JUST the windows executable and core files. Sorry Titi, but I already have the megapack, and a 100+mb download is not going to make me happy. GAE gets along fine with its miniscule file size.
Well, the best thing you could do is delete your OT posts... ::)
Omega has just had a lot of fun deleting off topic posts! Down goes the post counts!
Later? The longer they wait, the harder it's going to be.
Exactly john! In my opinion, in an ideal world where they agreed to merge, GAE would finish 0.3, and MG would have a stable master server available, then, BAM! Mega GAE. :)
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Omega has just had a lot of fun deleting off topic posts! Down goes the post counts!
Hmm, sounds fun, can I try? ::) :O Joking...
Dunno about that... I've had no problems with the current release of either, but judging from the posts on their boards, MG has a lot more bugs.
MG has more bugs because recently it was implemented with a lot of "new" stuff, and there are active testers... ::)
GAE doesn't because...it doesn't. It hasn't really implemented anything that could actually have huge problems... ::) (For MG, mainly multiplayer issues, but now mostly if not all fixed :thumbup: )
Exactly john! In my opinion, in an ideal world where they agreed to merge, GAE would finish 0.3, and MG would have a stable master server available, then, BAM! Mega GAE.
Well, we'll see... I think titi and softcoder may have some time, I don't know about the remaining GAE Team... :|
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One stable client build and a patcher for bug fixes and new game content.
Currently I have Glest2.0 GAE3.2.2b? Glest3.2.2 and MG3.2.3? on my hard drive.
I stop caring about new builds and new content when mod developers run open-ended projects.
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Technically, Vanilla Glest, Original Glest, is not really stable.. ::)
Hmm, that version of MG is really old... ::)
So you don't have the latest version of GAE? ::)
I don't think it is too hard to get them all, just annoying. ::)
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whilst were talking about annoying ( ::) ::) ::) ::))...
guys, they merge when they want to ;)
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If were talking about annoying, I am pretty sure your one-liners are more annoying...than...eliminator's...
::)
Oh and Trappin, also, as long as you don't have old versions of say, like, megaglest, then it is fine...right? :|
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I love the different development strings.
Merging MegaGlest and GAE would be extremely difficult, the devs have already tried merging different parts, some success, and some failure.
I say MG and GAE should just keep going and trading cool features and blah blah blah.
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Well, titi is going to be gone soon, and softcoder will be busy during the time that the GAE team will be on so...this would be great, but not in the near future...it is hard, to...do...I can really imagine. ...
Megaglest is soon coming to the stable version. Don't know about GAE, 0.3... but I do know both of them are great! Will be, at least.
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I doubt either will ever have a stable version with our community size... I mean, "stable" would need hundreds of testers on most platforms testing down to every little thing and trying to exploit the engine to make sure it doesn't "break".
Personally, it would be easier for modders if we had just one engine, since there's no "Ok, should I have really nice particles, or should I get those awesome emanations?" questions.
I think merging is distinctly possible, since GAE will eventually support at least 8 players, and with that, will need the new map format. GAE also has plans to impliment Titi's particles, as well as particles for emanations. After that, what's left? The master server, which is still incomplete and in need of more testing for security?
I for one, do think a merge is possible, even if not in the "sometime within eyesight" future.
(Though indeed Titi will be on vacation for a few weeks. Perhaps GAE will have caught up by then? :O)
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No one is asking for perfection here, stable is as stable does! Glest 3.2.2 is stable but has some annoying.. lets call them "unintended features". We will never reach consensus because we apply different standards and definitions to words with broad meanings. Stable open source freeware should not be compared to commercially available software etc.
Has anyone here played STALKER: Shadows of Chernobyl? SoC literally has hundreds of mods, some of those mods are tiny 5 line bug fixes while others pretty much alter the game engine. The mod community had reached a point where many mods would not function with each other - sometimes WinMerge would get two incompatible mods working and sometimes it would break everything. One team of modders branched out and built a mod tool for installing/uninstalling/merging mods.
http://www.smart-mod-manager.org/details.html
For users
Smart Mod Manager manages your collection of mods, allows you to quickly switch between them, add and remove mods in any order. It is also capable of merging mods together.
SMM works with nearly all existing mods. The exception is mods that come with their own installers. If you want to install such a mod, it is best to ask its author to provide a "plain" version.
SMM can merge mods together. If two mods conflict with each other, SMM will ask you to choose the more important one. However, it is not always possible to merge mods correctly. Mods that are similar to each other are difficult to merge.
SMM makes mods simple, but does not hide anything from you. The Diagram View shows exactly what is going on behind the scenes. Higher priority mods are displayed above lower priority mods. Links are drawn between conflicting mods. You can click on a link to see what is wrong.
There can be description files for multiple languages. Add a two-letter language suffix to each translated file, for example: description-de.txt to German and description-ru.txt to Russian.
We need a Glest Mod Manager for Glest/GAE/MegaGlest. Branch managers will provide a "Stable" cross platform installer/build for their prospective branch and the mod tool then works from each "stable" build to install or remove various modded game elements. The tool will add flexibility for modders but will simplify the process of patching and modding files for end users.
We cannot grow the community if the mods and patches and binaries and branches and tilesets and map .mgm and .gbm ...... OMG! I just went blind....
Keywords: Glest Open Source Stable = pretty darn good beta build.
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Any ways a stable version of MG just came out today...
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I think merging is distinctly possible, since GAE will eventually support at least 8 players, and with that, will need the new map format. GAE also has plans to impliment Titi's particles, as well as particles for emanations. After that, what's left?
Particle systems for skills (as per MG) are done already, new ones for unit/area effects/emanations are on the way.
As I said when MG was started, I can and will take the better things they do and add them to GAE.
As to a merging of efforts, this unfortunately will never happen.
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So if anyone asks the question anymore about merging GAE and Mega-Glest, please refer back to Silnarm's answer here as he has his mind set on this never happening. Up until getting this reply I had thought that there would be the possibiltiy, but I see now that there is no desire at all.
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Up until getting this reply I had thought that there would be the possibiltiy, but I see now that there is no desire at all.
Actions speak louder than words softcoder.
Your actions tell me you have no interest in anything we've done, else you wouldn't constantly be ignoring work we've done and implementing it yourself.
When multi-platform network play became the 'big thing', I had a plan, I made it known. Did you engage with me so we could work together and make it happen? No.
It seems you now have configurable hotkeys... any chance you used GAE code? Nope.
Command queuing, as per GAE? No.
So your words and your actions are telling conflicting stories. Or so it seems to me.
But then, maybe its just a definitions thing. By merging, perhaps you think that means us abandoning everything we've done and then re-implementing only the things you want into Megaglest?
I sincerely wish we could work together, but the two forks continue to diverge at an ever increasing rate. That is the sad truth.
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I have no problem with the divergence of the two forks. I support both forks in their respective efforts.
The end result is that we will hopefully end up with two distinct engines based on Glest 3.2.2 but with different sets of features.
I think there has been enough speculation on this topic already. Both forks have expressed their veiws and those on the forum who are not coding have no right to tell those who are what to do. If you want to merge the forks so badly go learn to code and do it yourself!
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I don't think Omega set out to pit one branch against the other - merging defined here means unity at the cost of flexibility and would be the ultimate goal but its not the only path. Two distinctly different branches can work - we see this all the time in many different professions.
Would a glest mod manager be possible? Is it an achievable goal? Stupid idea?
As far as telling coders what they should be doing? I'd never do anything of the sort.
I will reiterate one major point though. Windoz end users such as myself prefer tidy installs and simple modder file packages. KISS.
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Would a glest mod manager be possible? Is it an achievable goal? Stupid idea?
It would be nice, but I think it would be very difficult.
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I don't think Omega set out to pit one branch against the other - merging defined here means unity at the cost of flexibility and would be the ultimate goal but its not the only path. Two distinctly different branches can work - we see this all the time in many different professions.
Would a glest mod manager be possible? Is it an achievable goal? Stupid idea?
Indeed, I simply mention that it would be nice to have a single Glest which would benefit the modders (one engine choice), gamers (less confusion for installing those mods), and coders (one project to work on = better performance in that sole project). I don't mean to step on any toes, and know that is beyond my coding skill, and of course, is up to the programmer itself.
Concerning a manager, I tried to do that once, but was met with one main issue: there is no one main source for these mods. In order for a mod manager to function properly, it would need *direct* downloads in order to be able to properly request those downloads. As well, that download source would need the modders to be consistent in folder layout. ie: a tech tree would be techtree.7z/techtreefolder/techtree.xml... and so on... Or something at least that could maintain those standards. Biggest problem: there is no sole source for these. They are often scattered on download sites such as filefront or mediafire, which have download prompt screens...
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We need a Glest Mod Manager for Glest/GAE/MegaGlest. Branch managers will provide a "Stable" cross platform installer/build for their prospective branch and the mod tool then works from each "stable" build to install or remove various modded game elements. The tool will add flexibility for modders but will simplify the process of patching and modding files for end users.
:P Psychic. I don't know... well somewhat, I hear for megaglest we are getting one... ;)
But later..., and there are some problems with that though...
I have no problem with the divergence of the two forks. I support both forks in their respective efforts.
The end result is that we will hopefully end up with two distinct engines based on Glest 3.2.2 but with different sets of features.
I think there has been enough speculation on this topic already. Both forks have expressed their veiws and those on the forum who are not coding have no right to tell those who are what to do. If you want to merge the forks so badly go learn to code and do it yourself!
Yeah, that is the truth basically. Good or not. :|
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Well, if you would change the current mechanic to addons, that you have to enable at the configuration...
BTW, why does ATi and nVidia do a different branches, even tough, they could work together for better performance? It's techrace guys! It inspires both forks, to be better than the other.
Plus, both Silnarm's and Softcoder's names are starting with "s". :O
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i think there should be a merger! it would help us all out!
i as a modder would like the features of both engines to be used. im tired of choosing which engine to make a mod for. we need to merge now before we get too far apart!
if we did merge, then there would be more developers working on it; and this leads to faster implementation of greater stuff. there is no reason not to merge, and pure laziness does not count as a valid reason.
in short: lets get some things in motion already! nothing gets done if we all stand around and look at each other!
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Already been discussed. According to what I've seen, it won't happen. The two engines are moving in different directions, but are exchanging knowledge and features in cases where it is appropriate to do so, like MG's particles being incorporated into GAE and GAE's pathfinder being incorporated into MG.
If this changes, I'm sure one of the developers will kindly inform us. Aside from that, nothing to see here. (http://glest.org/glest_board/Themes/glest2/images/icons/quick_lock.gif)