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Archives (read only) => Vanilla Glest => General discussion => Topic started by: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 04:13:50

Title: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 04:13:50
I tried to unevenly put the game in my favour, and they ( The computer ) still crushed me before I could even build a fifth castle.

They sent out, if I remember correctly, four battle mages amd six daemons. I had only managed to build three warriors and two archers. Needless to say, I was crushed. Any tips on how to quickly lower the diffivulty below " Very Easy "; or build units with much haste?
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: -Archmage- on 12 December 2010, 05:35:38
It sounds to me like you're trying to build too many castles too early in the game. Develop an immediate military and prioritize security over extra resource storage space. ;)
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 05:43:11
That may be it. Hm. How large should my military be? I just watched the Indian Base video on Youtube, and I's wondering if that's overkill or a standard army.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: -Archmage- on 12 December 2010, 06:00:11
Just keep building it and make sure you have a standing force of at LEAST 8-16 units at all times, I recommend maintaining the largest army you can, but you also have to properly balance that with technological advancement.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 06:06:11
Eesh, this is terribly complicated.

OT
(click to show/hide)

Is there a learning curve to to this, or do I have to.. study it?

Edit: Sorry, but I am refreshing this page while doing other things. If that's bad or anything.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: Omega on 12 December 2010, 06:37:10
Welcome to Glest, PrinceAnthrax!

Glest's learning curve is actually quite slow, though part of the problem may be that you are jumping in too fast. Start with the tutorials, and try some of the easy scenarios as well before you try a full on game. Also, I recommend trying GAE or Megaglest (both found in their own categories on this forum board), since they have an "easy" CPU difficulty, whereas standard glest (generally known as "vanilla" glest) only has normal and ultra CPUs.

Glest is focused mostly on combat, and diplomacy doesn't yet exist in Glest, so you have to focus on a military. In fact, many games can get by with a single castle, and at the most, you'll doubtfully build more than a couple in even the longest games (the castle's only use is to store resources and produce the worker, so is usually built once per "base" that you make. You would generally build these bases near groups of resources, such as gold or stone). The first thing you should build with tech is a farm, since food is a must-have for survival. An army runs on its stomach. While that is being built, you can also build a barracks at the same time.

This is your source of military units, which will make up the core of your army. You'll also want to be producing lots of workers from your castle, because they will be the harvesters and builders, and you can generally expect to have 10 or so before you even start producing Military units (eventually you'll get into the balance of producing units with optimal timing, so as to get the perfect balance between growth and power, though usually games start largely biased towards growth, before power becomes crucial in late game).

The barracks can produce a few types of units. Of these, the archer is one of the most useful to "spam", though a balance of different unit times will be highly successful. Don't use just weak swarm units because they'll fall too fast, and don't use just expensive and slow units because they are too undernumbered to affect much. Find a good balance between different units with trial and error.

Once you have a strong military of 10+, you can focus on building some other buildings, such as the blacksmith (required to produce the guard, and also can produce upgrades to power-up your units, but those should be saved for late game), and the technodrome (used to produce the technician, a key unit for the powerful units of Glest).

Now, the technician can do a few things, many which require upgrades from the technodrome. Firstly, it can build a battle machine or air ballista to commandeer. Air ballistas are late game defensive units that can ONLY attack air units (the usefulness of them is controversal), while battle machines are much more useful with a brutally powerful melee attack and a ranged attack to boot. They can also construct the aerodrome, which produces tech's only air units, the mildly powerful ornithopter, and the slow, but incredibly effective airship.


Start with tech until you get to learn more about how Glest works, but once you become more skilled, you'll want to try the magic faction, as it needs more skill, but, in my opinion, is more fun. There's also literally dozens of mods on the Glest Board here, several which are magitech compatable. The Megapack (comes with Megaglest) contains some very high quality magitech compatable mods in its own techtree, while others like Dark Magic or Dwarves are also plenty of fun once you get the hang of Tech and Magic.


Again, I advice you to look at GAE, since not only does it have an "easy" CPU difficulty (great for starting out!), but it also has several other features that make the game easier and/or more enjoyable, such as auto repair, patrolling, and guarding, as well, some mods are GAE only, but utilize its extra modding features to create unique gameplay, such as Military.

Happy Glesting.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: ultifd on 12 December 2010, 06:48:27
Well, the main thing is to keep practicing. Also, if you try out megaglest, you can play with others...and then they'll probably help you out and teach you some tricks and you'll have a bit more fun too. After that, try out GAE (Glest Advanced Engine) for some nice additional features.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 06:58:56
Alrighty, thanks for the ( massive, I daresay ) help. I'll use those tips to hopefully escalate my skill level to the point I don't have to imagine myself winning.

Huzzah, I'm off to install the mods.

Edit: I will tomorrow. I just fell over, asleep and smashed my keyboard.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: the warlord of the reich on 12 December 2010, 11:49:59
grow to your experience, you are still a raw recruit

tips

put all workmen at the gold mine. immedietly train another 3 workmen. 2 at gold 1 at farm building.

when gold is atleast 480 pull out 2 workmen from mines to help build farm.

build a stable in the farm

bring put the 3 workmen finished building farm and make them mine gold

train a wave of 4, 2 in a wave, and another wave of tow.

put 1 as tree beater, another stonemason

TO ARMS :swordman: :swordman: :swordman: :swordman: :swordman:

build the barracks :swordman:

train three  :archer: :archer: :archer:

and then train a  :swordman:

but before training and recruiting anything at al, build a training field, and while training field is deve;oping build blacksmith, finish the blacksmith's fast to earn the bonus of building another barracks, while the first barracks is still developing its training field, once the 2nd barracks is finished and the first barracks is still upgrading, both 2 barracks will share the upgrade togather once it finishes, if the first barracks finishes its upgrade and you still dident complete the 2nd barracks. the 2nd barracks wont have a training field

dont forget to keep training lots of workers, for my tips require too much wood, so concenrate on increasing the wood beaters.

once your a wealthy ruler with a fantastic army. be casual, leave the enemy in peace and keep a powerfull army to guard their borders from attacks. meanwhile, build castles across the map
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 17:19:00
Huzzah! After roughly an hour of parrying gigantic invasion forces, I managed to launch a glues together counterattack consisting of fourteen units; an Airship, a Horseman, a Battlemechthing, three archers, and eight Guards. Of the force, three guards and an archer survived, and I promptly utilized the enemy's lack of life to destroy their buildings. Wee.

What I think helped me the most was building fiftytrillion workers at the beginning, roughly four for each resource ( excluding stone ) and another four were tasked with building... buildings. Thanks for all of your help, to those who posted.  ( Time to try " Medium " :P. )
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: the warlord of the reich on 12 December 2010, 17:36:31
you are advancing! i hope your great armies will someay by your tactics make a famous victory over a very hard difficulty. buying more slaves is mey become bruttal, rebuying them takes time and costly, they will start clean the sorounding areas apart and you may need to advance new castles,

rely on huge number of archers, first send your air units to skirmish and then the melee warriors to weaken and hold the enemy and then a huge bombairder archer of a glorious conquest :swordman: :archer: and destroy them with pleasure,

they is completley stupid. thy dont grow their towns. it stay minimum, they leave a weakned army localized as a town watch while building a conqueror siege army with large costs and numbers, use tactics carefully, also flanking will help, attack from tow sides for a more glorious conquest :swordman:

victory shall await you,
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 17:48:32
Warlord, when exactly did you become " good "? More specifically, when did all of these tactics become natural movements during games, for you?

I'm still trying to work my head around all of the units ( Archers, soldiers, horsemen, air blimps, workers, blargh ).
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: John.d.h on 12 December 2010, 18:35:51
One thing you can do is try to focus on the enemy castle, because if you destroy that then they can't produce any more units, as all their resources are gone.  Then you can do hit-and-run attacks on their farms, leaving them to start to death.  The risk is that if you send a big wave of troops to destroy the castle and they fail, you've lost all your units and done no lasting damage, leaving you vulnerable to the next attack.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: the warlord of the reich on 12 December 2010, 19:32:52
thats why advanced archiculture and philosophers are importent, build ballistas and archers and towers for DEFENSE! :swordman: garrison the archers in buildings to gain defence bonuses

natural movements? that means i take a lifetime (meybe) to study the AI tactics and behaviours, any ways flank enemies is of course good, but you knowwhat will bring more units to a better potentiel and more speciels?

a morale system

hit and run is somewhat useless, low damage attacking buildings and the damage taken during retreat is severe :o
and also for tech faction, keep researching non stop while having a large number of workmen. knights are very effective VS any ranged unit, 1 knight can beat 5 mages with ease, because its historical AND usual, cavalrymen are fast with horses and hard to shoot and are able to evade! and in this game theres no manner of unit acuraccy system to bring ranged troops in a more releastic conditon, so any unit will fire at will will hit but the catch is that your knights are long ranged jousters armed with lances and armored and fast and well armed, they will reach a mage before he'll be able to cast more then 3 spells, and they will hit him for a safe distance from a nice range and kill him fast, NO MERCY BASTARDS :swordman: :swordman: :swordman: :swordman: :swordman:

cheers!
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: John.d.h on 12 December 2010, 19:41:39
Quote from: the warlord of the reich on 12 December 2010, 19:32:52
hit and run is somewhat useless, low damage attacking buildings and the damage taken during retreat is severe :o
... unless you do it right.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 19:58:27
Hm. I just convinced a friend of mine to join, and will be trying out these techniques of yours on him. Ha.

I tried a hit and run, once, on a custom game, and was slaughtered. I suppose it was because I was using Golems. Or, more accurately, a golem.  I'll use horsies next time.

You'll probably see why I'm asking this, but is there any faction that is vastly/mildly superior to the others, regardless of personal skill level? And, on a side note, how long do games usually last? As in, does it take an hour on average or two or three. Or four. Five? Speaking on a 2 v 2 basis, that is.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: Gabbe on 12 December 2010, 20:17:21
Glest is slower than other RTS games.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: John.d.h on 12 December 2010, 21:28:18
Quote from: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 19:58:27
I tried a hit and run, once, on a custom game, and was slaughtered. I suppose it was because I was using Golems. Or, more accurately, a golem.  I'll use horsies next time.
Ha, yeah, keep your golems at your base.  Their limited movement capabilities are really just for placement, or if an enemy is just out of range.  Horsemen and Drake Riders are perfect for hit-and-run because they can strike from a medium range and run away (and actually outrun the enemies chasing them).  You might even be able to lure a few enemy units back to your base, where your towers/golems can pound them.

Quote
You'll probably see why I'm asking this, but is there any faction that is vastly/mildly superior to the others, regardless of personal skill level?
Mod makers generally try to keep everything fairly balanced, so each faction will have its own strengths and weaknesses, but overall they should be pretty even.

Quote
And, on a side note, how long do games usually last? As in, does it take an hour on average or two or three. Or four. Five? Speaking on a 2 v 2 basis, that is.
That depends on individual playing styles, the factions involved, the map... a lot of things, really.  You could try getting on our IRC channel (#glest on freenode) and play with some other people.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: the warlord of the reich on 12 December 2010, 21:56:43
yeah dude what were you thinking seriously? they're  fort guardsmen. for guarding and fortfying, marching an army with golems may have a huge chance of winning but will slow the march for your army, golems are not high mobile speciel opration units, though they may hold but are not exactly the best type to attack buildings with, better take this lesson to grow your knowledge, golems are lazy asses cant walk for 10 seconds without stopping for a coffee break or a launch, may used in high intelligence and smart attacks like advancing them early and reinforcing them outskirts of enemy's base and then ATTACK :swordman: :swordman: :swordman:

hit and run most likley becomes useless, you know why? because the units are guarding from outside. while the buildings are deep in, your units are going to be alone encircled in enemy's territory,

golems are powerfull high damage and defense units. they work as towers and forts fortfying your main camp,

cheers! and if someone can make a naval war for this game it will be 3 steps upstairs for ths game. and fix the dumbass range if you may can. 10 foot does'nt sound like a bow's range. also the archers bombard the enemy from the close range? thats more stupid to be honest ;)
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 22:45:02
Quote
You might even be able to lure a few enemy units back to your base, where your towers/golems can pound them.

This^ implies that there's a possibility for defence in this game, and my expirence contradicts that. Every time I make a defence, they just wait a tad then storm me with more troops than I can handle.

Naval wars would be great, unless you pull a BFME2 and make the ships easily destoryable. I digress, whenever I join the IRC channel no one responds.

Edit: Is there any mode where the enemy doesn't attack me? Like, any.. roleplaying-esque mode?
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: wyvern on 13 December 2010, 01:39:20
I remember playing a game some time ago, it was me as tech with basic magic allies, against two mega cpu magic enemies. My mage ally got all his initiates killed real fast so he couldn't build anything but I used his remaining buildings as an extension of my defenses(the map was center punch) I built about 8-12 defense towers around my whole base with some catapults and archers to back them up against close range units, there were also about 4 air ballistas and 4 airships(one achieved 63 kills ;D). I built three forces of 5 horsemen with a technician for each and each squad was assigned a direction of attack. one squad would attack from the left flank, another from the center and the last one from the right flank. one squad would always attack kill a couple of initiates or energy sources before fleeing back to be healed, meanwhile, another squad would attack from a different direction while my defenses absorbed attacks. Eventually I attacked, only encountered 2 initiates and killed them, feeling cheeky I slowly wiped out more buildings and sent in the second squad of horsemen which overwhelmed some summoners and after that my last squad came in I pretty much just took every building out unopposed and achieved a quick victory, I didn't lose any horsemen, and only lost my starting swordmen and an archer. It was an easy victory ;D
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: ultifd on 13 December 2010, 21:15:48
Quote from: PrinceAnthrax on 12 December 2010, 22:45:02
I digress, whenever I join the IRC channel no one responds.
Sorry...people are busy these days, and there's that timezone issue too. I think I'll be able to play, maybe, on Friday.

Quote
Edit: Is there any mode where the enemy doesn't attack me? Like, any.. roleplaying-esque mode?
No, I don't think so. Closest thing is that in the upcoming version of MG, you'll be able to make them really weak, but I guess they would attack after maybe 20 to 30 minutes...
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 13 December 2010, 22:18:35
Quote
Sorry...people are busy these days, and there's that timezone issue too. I think I'll be able to play, maybe, on Friday.

Don't worry, that was my ignorance speaking. I waited thirtyish minutes and a bunch of people popped up ( after finishing their game ).

@Wyvern, my only strategy thusfar is camping at my base with towers and many, many workers; slowly building a massive invasion force whilst having an impenetrable defence. Once I have an infinite supply of units, I attack. When my perishable resources ( I.E., gold, wood, stone ) die out, I break my army into two halves; one to stay at the main base and the other to protect the new base. Huzzah.

Great story.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: ultifd on 13 December 2010, 22:25:19
Quote from: PrinceAnthrax on 13 December 2010, 22:18:35
Don't worry, that was my ignorance speaking. I waited thirtyish minutes and a bunch of people popped up ( after finishing their game ).
Ah, I see. Yeah, sometimes it is just like that...everyone just needs some patience then.  :thumbup:

Quote
@Wyvern, my only strategy thusfar is camping at my base with towers and many, many workers; slowly building a massive invasion force whilst having an impenetrable defence. Once I have an infinite supply of units, I attack. When my perishable resources ( I.E., gold, wood, stone ) die out, I break my army into two halves; one to stay at the main base and the other to protect the new base. Huzzah.
Hehe, turtling. Yeah, that's a good strategy until your opponent has a ton of splashy units.  :P
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 13 December 2010, 23:10:56
Yeah. That. I'm pretty good at it, if I do say so myself. I've played a lot of LOTR,BFME and turtling has never failed, ever; regardless of their ballista. Is Glest different in that aspect?

OT Question:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: wyvern on 14 December 2010, 21:27:50
Quote from: ultifd on 13 December 2010, 22:25:19
Quote from: PrinceAnthrax on 13 December 2010, 22:18:35
Don't worry, that was my ignorance speaking. I waited thirtyish minutes and a bunch of people popped up ( after finishing their game ).
Ah, I see. Yeah, sometimes it is just like that...everyone just needs some patience then.  :thumbup:

Quote
@Wyvern, my only strategy thusfar is camping at my base with towers and many, many workers; slowly building a massive invasion force whilst having an impenetrable defence. Once I have an infinite supply of units, I attack. When my perishable resources ( I.E., gold, wood, stone ) die out, I break my army into two halves; one to stay at the main base and the other to protect the new base. Huzzah.
Hehe, turtling. Yeah, that's a good strategy until your opponent has a ton of splashy units.  :P
splashy units are nice but for one thing, they are usually slow, expensive and weak in close combat. admittedly both archmages and catapults, the main splash units can easily be overwhelmed by horsemen, and in the archmages case, by archers before they reach their target
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: Omega on 14 December 2010, 22:06:40
Quote from: PrinceAnthrax on 13 December 2010, 23:10:56
How do you apply mods to GAE? I've looked at the wiki and rowsed the Mod board, but found nothing. Yes, I'm new to this whole shebang. ( Windows XP, 2004-ish )
https://docs.megaglest.org/Installing_Mods
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: PrinceAnthrax on 15 December 2010, 23:31:56
Quote from: Omega on 14 December 2010, 22:06:40
Quote from: PrinceAnthrax on 13 December 2010, 23:10:56
How do you apply mods to GAE? I've looked at the wiki and rowsed the Mod board, but found nothing. Yes, I'm new to this whole shebang. ( Windows XP, 2004-ish )
https://docs.megaglest.org/Installing_Mods

I emphasis " looked at the wiki ". I managed to get Military, and Military alone, working, but every scenario crashes and the text won't show up. " ???Header1??? " etc.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: Omega on 16 December 2010, 21:02:48
Then you did it wrong. It's missing files, as I can judge by the missing language files. For Military, it has an installer, so use that to prevent mistakes. Next, read the article REAAALY slowly.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: the warlord of the reich on 16 December 2010, 22:07:21
hello

well if you want a really nice advice to a player suffering, use cheats, to the admins, my advice is to make the cheats in the typing manner, press enter type in blah blah blah etc

cheers and take care of yourselfs :)
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: Omega on 18 December 2010, 06:20:15
Except that cheats take away from the initial fun and sense of accomplishment that one is meant to get from games. I never use cheats to learn a game, or on the first playthrough. In fact, I only use cheats in games to get things that the developers had stupidly locked away purposely (do they really think I'll attend some event in the future for one pokemon? Or that I don't mind beating a game in 12 hours, skipping all the cutscenes, side quests, running from every battle, and having no fun just to get the most powerful weapon in the game, all for a bit of a strength boost that isn't needed at all? Or that I'll have to send 12 friends a "letter" that they don't want in the game to get some legendary job class that is only helpful at maxed levels?).

At any rate, Glest needs no cheats. This was a topic of discussion before, but no consensus was reached, and besides, the lua console in GAE can give resources, create units, disable the AI, etc, anyway, and Glest's XMLs can be edited to change the stats of units, and finally, the CPU easy in GAE and MG is virtually you cheating, since you have twice the resources as the CPU does.
Title: Re: Is it just me, or is Glest insanely difficult?
Post by: Trappin on 20 December 2010, 18:26:59
When the AI finds your base it will rush units to that location - one way to delay this is by posting low cost guard units at a fair distance from your home base. Also, some maps are harder to win on than others.