MegaGlest Forum
Archives (read only) => Glest Advanced Engine => Feature requests => Topic started by: Psychedelic_hands on 3 April 2011, 13:24:17
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This is incrediby annoying, I'm sorry but the idea is just plain silly. When ever there is a important battle going on and I'm trying to give commands to my units, I accidently move my camera instead....
Sorry if I'm harsh, but I strongly dislike it... Is there at least a way to turn it off?
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Shift/Ctrl+RMB should be used instead, and that moving thing should be redesigned it isn't smooth and doesn't stop when you tell it too.
Whether I'm using it or not, I really don't like it and have no need for it.
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The idea is in every Command & Conquer game since at least Red Alert 2 and in several other RTS games (often as middle mouse) whether you use it or not (I'm guessing you've played other RTS games). So I think it's the implementation rather than the idea that is annoying you.
What version are you using? I changed it previously so you would need to move the mouse with right click held down for a distance before it would do anything. Nobody ended up giving any feedback (I probably should have used a new topic). https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=6537.msg67167#msg67167
Other games have it as more of a drag rather than a scroll. Would this be better? Another option would be to set the distance to an impossible distance if an ini option is set so it never scrolls (not possible yet).
Edit: Does resolution or fullscreen affect the distance?
Edit: changed wording.
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This silly idea is in every Command & Conquer game since at least Red Alert 2 and in several other RTS games (often as middle mouse). I think it's the implementation rather than the idea that is annoying you.
The idea is fine, but either change the RMB-scroll to Shift-RMB, or maybe make it MMB, and move the camera zoom to Shift-MMB. This feature would be nice to have handy. Also, some people have multiple mouse buttons(me!me!me!), maybe it could be mouse 4 for people that have 4+ buttoned mouses.
Other games have it as more of a drag rather than a scroll. Would this be better? Another option would be to set the distance to an impossible distance if an ini option is set so it never scrolls (not possible yet).
Hmm.... Just make it smoother and make it stop when I release it. I like the way you can "scroll" around with it.
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The idea is in every Command & Conquer game since at least Red Alert 2 and in several other RTS games (often as middle mouse) whether you use it or not (I'm guessing you've played other RTS games). So I think it's the implementation rather than the idea that is annoying you.
What version are you using? I changed it previously so you would need to move the mouse with right click held down for a distance before it would do anything. Nobody ended up giving any feedback (I probably should have used a new topic). https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=6537.msg67167#msg67167
Well I'm using a mousepad on a laptop, so as you can imagine my finger is always on it and it's hard not to slightly move it.
See when I'm quickly trying to select lots of units, I'm moving my cursora lot in between clicking. Especially in Glest where clicking on units is kinda hard, this just doesn' work.
I can see how it would be better with a normal mouse though.... But there should at least be a setting to turn it off... Or middle mouse button would be much better....
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i have no problem with keeping the right-click scroll (none of this ctrl/shift-rmb crap), but make the speed adjustable and make the distance required for scroll larger.
-Zoy
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Right click for camera moves? Thats complete nonsens in the world of glest. We don't make rad alert we make glest.
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I'm not out to make a clone either but it's a feature I've liked from other RTS games. It's not a compulsory part of play. Please explain how it is "nonsense in the world of glest".
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It's not a compulsory part of play.
Sorry, but I keep acidentally hitting it while trying to target units.... It's not very compulsory for me, sorry if I seem demanding or whatever, but an option to turn it off would be awesome. GAE has become difficult and uncomfortable to use now because of this.
Again sorry, I think this would be awesome for the people with normal mouses... but it just doesn't work for me.
Right click for camera moves? Thats complete nonsens in the world of glest. We don't make rad alert we make glest.
Titi, I think that is pretty close minded thing to say! Exploring new possiblities is what open-source should be about! :O
Glest can be whatever we the community (especially you coders ;)) can make of it.... Which is anything!
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I use a 5 button mouse all the time, I do not like this. It needs to be set on mouse 3 or 4, if 3 have the camera rotation be shift-mouse 3. Then change the arrow keys to wasd and the manual camera commands to the arrow keys so that shift is convenient. I'm an fps player, fps' are designed so you can play them smoothly, using wasd, shift, space, ctrl, etc with all my right hand is very convenient and it would be nice if Glest would use these smooth controls as well.
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Compromise: Keep the feature in, but as an option defaultly turned off.
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(mouse 4 and 5 are usually scroll wheel up and down)
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(mouse 4 and 5 are usually scroll wheel up and down)
I'm talking physically, not technically. :P
Anyway I'm all for:
MMB: Scroll-Drag
Shift+MMB: Camera angle/elevation.
RMB should be left solely for giving commands and setting meeting points.
@Hands: In 0.4 this feature is a lot better, in the snapshot you have, it is much harder to use.
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[...] Then change the arrow keys to wasd [...]
actually, if glest is ever to become a competitive game, the hotkeys on the left shout be used for unit hotkeys. that's at least how the big rts games like warcraft 3 and starcraft 2 work (althought the standard hotkeys, that nobody uses, are spread ramdomly on the whole keyboard). and those games "are designed so you can play them smoothly" for a rts like gameplay.
just my opinion.
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[...] Then change the arrow keys to wasd [...]
actually, if glest is ever to become a competitive game, the hotkeys on the left shout be used for unit hotkeys. that's at least how the big rts games like warcraft 3 and starcraft 2 work (althought the standard hotkeys, that nobody uses, are spread ramdomly on the whole keyboard). and those games "are designed so you can play them smoothly" for a rts like gameplay.
just my opinion.
Hotkeys are low-priority in my opinion, they are annoying to me, and their main function could be better designed. Using Shift/Ctrl+mouse buttons you can make more convenient hot-keys. And you can use 'wasd' for movement which would put shift and ctrl within perfect reach of your left hand.
Double Right Click or Shift+Right Click: Attack Location/Unit.
Right-Click Drag: Creates a red box, any units inside this box will be deselected.
As for things like nearest idle worker, those aren't things you do a lot so they don't need special mouse-hot-keys.
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hm maybe hotkeys should just complete customiseable. because most rts gamers are used to the a-click nowadays. and by unit-hotkeys i mean hotkeys for "skills" in the first place. like building buildings, casting, attacking, patroling etc.
those are the things you have on this hotkeys in the "big" rts games.
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[...] Then change the arrow keys to wasd [...]
actually, if glest is ever to become a competitive game, the hotkeys on the left shout be used for unit hotkeys. that's at least how the big rts games like warcraft 3 and starcraft 2 work (althought the standard hotkeys, that nobody uses, are spread ramdomly on the whole keyboard). and those games "are designed so you can play them smoothly" for a rts like gameplay.
just my opinion.
Hotkeys are low-priority in my opinion, they are annoying to me, and their main function could be better designed. Using Shift/Ctrl+mouse buttons you can make more convenient hot-keys. And you can use 'wasd' for movement which would put shift and ctrl within perfect reach of your left hand.
Double Right Click or Shift+Right Click: Attack Location/Unit.
Right-Click Drag: Creates a red box, any units inside this box will be deselected.
As for things like nearest idle worker, those aren't things you do a lot so they don't need special mouse-hot-keys.
Sorry but that sounds horrible, why assign such unimportant commands to important buttons? If you've played any other RTS you'd understand the importance of hot keys.
Also don't forget this: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/glestae/ticket/279
We shouldn't go too outlandish from the classical RTS controls. Because then we alienate every other rts player out there. It would be too intimmidating for new players.
But we can improve on the classical RTS controls of course ;)
hm maybe hotkeys should just complete customiseable. because most rts gamers are used to the a-click nowadays. and by unit-hotkeys i mean hotkeys for "skills" in the first place. like building buildings, casting, attacking, patroling etc.
those are the things you have on this hotkeys in the "big" rts games.
This sounds about right.
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Sorry but that sounds horrible, why assign such unimportant commands to important buttons? If you've played any other RTS you'd understand the importance of hot keys.
This. :thumbup:
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Sorry but that sounds horrible, why assign such unimportant commands to important buttons? If you've played any other RTS you'd understand the importance of hot keys.
This. :thumbup:
:thumbup: Yeah, there are/would be better uses for those hot keys anyways...
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What about right click is as it was before, performing the default command if a unit is selected and NOTHING if no unit is selected (by default command, I mean clicking an enemy to attack, a location to move, a resource to harvest, or an allied unit to follow). Moving the camera... I just don't think it needs a clicking key. The spacebar centering the camera on a unit is plenty fine. And the arrow keys should stay. There's an old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and I think that applies to our hotkeys. You already can create custom hotkeys, but perhaps we should expand that to mouse keys as well as make it easier to modify the hotkeys (to be honest, if it isn't a letter or already mentioned in the hotkey INI, I have no clue how to reference it :().
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Whoa whoa whoa...... How is attack such an unimportant command?!
RTS gameplay that I've seen is clunky with all their hotkeys, fps controls are smooth because they want you to play at extreme speeds, why not develop the controls for Glest to build off the fastest controls setup around. I didn't branch into the world of rts games much because of hotkeys.
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How would more hot keys make a game clunky? :confused: Without hot keys, it's twice as many clicks and twice as much mouse motion to execute a command. That's sluggish, tedious, and bad for your wrists.
These guys use hot keys. :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpCLqryN-Q
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RTS gameplay that I've seen is clunky with all their hotkeys, fps controls are smooth because they want you to play at extreme speeds, why not develop the controls for Glest to build off the fastest controls setup around. I didn't branch into the world of rts games much because of hotkeys.
fps controls are designed to play fps games, rts controls are designed for rts games. in wc3 and sc2 you can customize hotkeys quite well and those players who play those games >really< fast have their unit(skill) hotkeys at that place. maybe just try one of those games with good custom keys and if you still think, fps controls are better, post it again.
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Right mouse button is used to command units in glest, how can it be used too to move the camera? I really don't like a second function mixed up with this. It is really really annoying just like the first poster said!
About the hotkeys: Of course they are important and we already made them a bit customizable in MG. But I don't want it to be a keyboard only game one day :D.
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i seem to be the exception to all of this. i am a good RTS player, even though i rarely use hotkeys. im much faster (and more precise) if i use the mouse.
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nobody said to not use the mouse. the mouse is still the main input, but if you just don't use your second hand, you obviously will always be slower.
also, some poeple like me like it much more to play with both hands because it relieves the mouse hand a lot.
once learned, it's much easier to play with hotkeys. it's a little bit like ten-finger-typing: you can just blindly type and everythings goes it's right way. compared to that, only mouse is like two-finger-search-typing :P
anyways, (mega)glest doesn't support real unit-hotkeys so far. the only ones that i know are (a)ttack and (s)top. are there alreay others?
maybe that is something that could also be included after the merge. like a optional hotkey entry for every command and every unit.
will come back to that.
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Well balanced keyboard RTS games have a large succes rate. Look at Starcraft and Warcraft. Nothing is even close.
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Well balanced keyboard RTS games have a large succes rate. Look at Starcraft and Warcraft. Nothing is even close.
have you ever heard of C&C?
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yap, starcraft still facerolls all.
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Ok this topic has been straying about. It ends now.
The right-click scroll needs to have a disable option, and a way to change the button you use. I hit it all the time when I'm giving commands.
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I've disabled it for now. If someone really wants it then I'll add an option to enable it after the merge. Locking topic.