Where will development be stored?I have a copy on my hard drive, one on an external drive, and one on Dropbox. Psychedelic Hands also has a copy shared with him, and now I have it up on github as per your request. There is plenty of redundancy in case my house burns down and I get eaten by an alligator.
Why don't you put your development in the open on github during development?Good idea. Done.
[url=http://git://github.com/johndh/Project-Red.git]git://github.com/johndh/Project-Red.git[/url]
Should I stick GW-pack into this project, I have several new tech models and have also worked on tech ships.I'm certainly interested in taking a look. If you want to upload them for me, I'll see if I can find a place for them. :)
Just worth noting that we should avoid putting in too many factions (and if some, such as tech, are expanded, don't over expand, for both balance and anti-bloating). The Megapack already suffers from being too large, which makes it slow to download, slow to load in game, and heavy on memory. For optimal audience, it should be fast to download, fast to load, and easy enough on memory for everyone (even those with computers that belong in museums) can play.Sorry but for the average person, it's not slow to download. It's also doesn't take a lot of time to load it either...remember only the factions that are used are loaded. Memory use...what? That's really untrue...
Hmm...good luck.Indeed, I do recall someone complaining about the megapack though because there was so many textures, etc to load from all those different factions that it was hard on their computer.Just worth noting that we should avoid putting in too many factions (and if some, such as tech, are expanded, don't over expand, for both balance and anti-bloating). The Megapack already suffers from being too large, which makes it slow to download, slow to load in game, and heavy on memory. For optimal audience, it should be fast to download, fast to load, and easy enough on memory for everyone (even those with computers that belong in museums) can play.Sorry but for the average person, it's not slow to download. It's also doesn't take a lot of time to load it either...remember only the factions that are used are loaded. Memory use...what? That's really untrue...
[img]http://digg.com/story/r/Average_broadband_speed_by_country_graph[/img]Man, where's my share? And interesting to note that canada is well above USA (and well behind Japan).
And yeah, apparently most people get pretty good internet. Is this true?Code: [Select][img]http://digg.com/story/r/Average_broadband_speed_by_country_graph[/img]Man, where's my share? And interesting to note that canada is well above USA (and well behind Japan).
if your starting with magic, I might be able to help, by the way, have you considered not giving the magic faction ships and instead give it stuff like the kraken, sea serpent and mermenWhy float when you can teleport? ;D
Well most of the magic faction can teleport (or be teleported) across water, but what if the enemy has ships in the water that are bombarding your base from range? You need a unit which can go get them in the water.What's wrong with the Dragon?
There are actually a couple reasons why I don't want to give naval units to Magic. First, that's more units than I want to get into. If I make a unit for every niche for every faction, that's a lot of units, and I'm trying to avoid scope creep (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Scope_creep). Second, if every faction has units that do the same things, then they all play kinda the same. I like for each faction to have different capabilities and styles of play.I was actually leaning towards water units until I read this, now I must agree, it would be a good idea to try and balance out the factions and make them more unique by controlling the fields too. There's no reason that a Kraken or sea serpent can't be recycled to another faction too.
Teleportation is currently restricted to explored areas only.Currently, that's the best GAE can do, but when they implement it so you can only teleport within your unit's sights, I think that would be better, otherwise, you just need a single scout to the opponent's base for easy access thereafter.
Of course, Dragons would still be necessary for exploring across the water, which might mean that Magic has a serious delay compared to other factions, which should be building boats long before Magic gets Dragons. I would consider giving Magic an earlier flying unit if that becomes necessary.I would imagine that water units would be a fairly powerful medium-late game unit though.
And yeah, apparently most people get pretty good internet. Is this true?Well it's just the megapack...Honestly, most people I met haven't complained about it much. With a decent internet speed, 2 to 3 MB I guess, it's fine.
http://digg.com/story/r/Average_broadband_speed_by_country_graph
Man, where's my share? And interesting to note that canada is well above USA (and well behind Japan).
I would imagine that water units would be a fairly powerful medium-late game unit though.It depends. For the Dwarves, naval units are fairly late but devastating, whereas Tech can build a Dock and a Sailboat right from the start, and a Transport Ship after they build a Blacksmith. This is all subject to change as time goes by, though.
How does this script work?
I'm unsure if this means he won't dev it for Glest anymore or what, but he did say it had a whole heap of polys.... So I'm unsure even if Glest COULD handle it...Glest can handle high polycount perfectly fine. In fact, textures use a lot more memory because Glest loads ALL the textures at the start of the game for all used factions. The only dividing line is that a higher polycount can filter out low end systems, though it's a mod, so low end systems could simply choose not to play it (they aren't really meant to handle games anyway).
But he said one building had 65,000 tris! I'm not even sure if my blender could render that many :-XI'm unsure if this means he won't dev it for Glest anymore or what, but he did say it had a whole heap of polys.... So I'm unsure even if Glest COULD handle it...Glest can handle high polycount perfectly fine. In fact, textures use a lot more memory because Glest loads ALL the textures at the start of the game for all used factions. The only dividing line is that a higher polycount can filter out low end systems, though it's a mod, so low end systems could simply choose not to play it (they aren't really meant to handle games anyway).
Gotta admit though, the lighting in that picture is gorgeous. I hope that we'll see something similar in Glest eventually too. And their water, etc, but that's a discussion for another day.
But he said one building had 65,000 tris! I'm not even sure if my blender could render that many :-XUm, yah, it can. People make movies with blender.
Laptop usually are.Don't stereotype 'em. Only the low end ones are. Mine is rip roaring fast.
But he said one building had 65,000 tris! I'm not even sure if my blender could render that many :-XYou sure he said that? Got a quote? Seems a bit high for a building, even in 0AD, you can't zoom enough for that to be useful.
But he said one building had 65,000 tris! I'm not even sure if my blender could render that many :-XLater in the thread, it was established it was actually only a few thousand, but anyway, we can get away with fairly high-poly models (just look at the Dwarves), but the increased detail isn't really that noticeable at Glest's zoom level, especially if the units are going to be moving around. If you can make a 300-poly model that looks as good in-game as a 600 or 1000 polygon model, go for it, but you probably shouldn't go out of your way to make them that low-poly. As Omega said, it's the textures that are the real performance burden, which is why I've greatly reduced the texture size for my version of the Dwarves. Most units had a 1024x1024 texture, and most have been reduced to 256x256, and the loss of detail is only barely noticeable if you zoom in all the way. Of course, I still have the *.xcf files at full resolution.
Off-topic:(click to show/hide)
I made a very simple script (https://github.com/williame/GlestTools/blob/master/techtree.html.py) to make some HTML pages so its easy to visualise the models in the mod; the output is here:
http://williame.github.com/Project-Red/project_red.html
http://williame.github.com/Project-Red/project_red_extras.html (WARNING really heavy page to load!)
You get the idea:
(http://williame.github.com/Project-Red/dwarves_extras_bombard_move.g3d.gif)(http://williame.github.com/Project-Red/woodsmen_extras_protector_stand.g3d.gif)
You can pull it back John if you like.
I hope its really obvious how you can edit the script to do prettier output and so on. It would be trivial to parse the xml and show various stats too if you wanted. Or maybe just extract decent pose information for each model so they at least face the camera ;)
I'm against being biased and most stereotypes, but this is one of the few that is kinda true and OK. Unless you want to pay a hefty price towards 1000 bucks, laptops usually come with integrated cards...All the other specs are usually good though. 4 gigs of RAM + i3 + 500 HD I thinkLaptop usually are.Don't stereotype 'em. Only the low end ones are. Mine is rip roaring fast.
So what changes will you first make to magic, John?For Magic, so far I've done a fair bit of xml work but not much art. The capable Psychedelic Hands has agreed to do some work with me, and he's already made a pretty great healer model. It's currently rigged, but it's waiting until he finishes the texture and I finish some animations before I show it off
[URL=http://img847.imageshack.us/i/screen17.jpg/][IMG]http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/7628/screen17.th.jpg[/img][/URL][URL=http://img651.imageshack.us/i/screen14d.jpg/][IMG]http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5623/screen14d.th.jpg[/img][/URL][URL=http://img807.imageshack.us/i/screen18.jpg/][IMG]http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/7982/screen18.th.jpg[/img][/URL][URL=http://img163.imageshack.us/i/screen20w.jpg/][IMG]http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1646/screen20w.th.jpg[/img][/URL][URL=http://img842.imageshack.us/i/screen15u.jpg/][IMG]http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/4105/screen15u.th.jpg[/img][/URL]
I'm looking for ways to make the Tower of Souls useful (like allowing it to target surface units).What about an upgrade that will allow that ability, though weaker than the anti-air (or slower?).
Zoythrus made a nice particle effect for the Energy Source, which can now generate extra energy for a fee, rather than having to build more Energy Sources (same price but slower).Awesome. I'd probably would just keep on building more energy sources, though. Think about it, your opponent(s) destroys just one energy source that you had maybe a lot of...energy? stored there. ____, you lost the game. They destroy several of your energy sources, even faster...you'll lose.
Think about it, your opponent(s) destroys just one energy source that you had maybe a lot of...energy? stored there. ____, you lost the game. They destroy several of your energy sources, even faster...you'll lose.You sure about that? I thought dynamically created energy would never be lost?
Hmm...well if not, it should be lost anyways. Or else that wouldn't really make sense, right?This can be done in MG, maybe you could port.
Hard to say if losing it is the "correct" action, and GAE already has a produce resource command, so.... naw. The entire point of Project Red is the reverse: to GAE-ize mods!Hmm...well if not, it should be lost anyways. Or else that wouldn't really make sense, right?This can be done in MG, maybe you could port.
Hmm...well if not, it should be lost anyways. Or else that wouldn't really make sense, right?I kinda thought that was what would happen, but it turns out that Energy isn't "stored" anywhere like food. I'm not sure how I feel about this.
The entire point of Project Red is the reverse: to GAE-ize mods!This. I have zero interest in making this mod for MegaGlest.
I kinda thought that was what would happen, but it turns out that Energy isn't "stored" anywhere like food. I'm not sure how I feel about this.Well, that's something to debate about/look into. :-\
Let's see if you can get a stable release before the merge finishes. If not, you're basically are making it for MG too. If you do, you still technically are. 8) :OThe entire point of Project Red is the reverse: to GAE-ize mods!This. I have zero interest in making this mod for MegaGlest.
I'd like to sign on!Sure! :)
Any room for an animator? :)
I'd like to sign on!Sure! :)
Any room for an animator? :)
If you want to jump right in, the Renewer is rigged, weighted, and ready to animate.
https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/tree/master/project_red/techs/project_red/factions/magic/units/renewer/models/ (https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/tree/master/project_red/techs/project_red/factions/magic/units/renewer/models/)
He'll need standing, walking, dying, and spell-casting. I'm debating whether or not to give him an attack skill, but that will likely use the same animation as spell-casting. He's still waiting on a texture so he has only a placeholder for now.
Edit: How do I download the models folder? I can only find one download thing and it's trying to make me download the whole mod? :look: I don't get how this whole git thing works... :-X
Thanks, I'll do that next time.Edit: How do I download the models folder? I can only find one download thing and it's trying to make me download the whole mod? :look: I don't get how this whole git thing works... :-X
Just go to the repository https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/tree/master/project_red/techs/project_red/factions/magic/units/renewer/models/ (https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/tree/master/project_red/techs/project_red/factions/magic/units/renewer/models/) and click on the unit name at the bottom of the page, then click the text that says "view raw". This should make the "open with..." dialog box pop up with Blender selected as the default.
[URL=http://img204.imageshack.us/i/screen16h.jpg/][IMG]http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4808/screen16h.th.jpg[/img][/URL]The sailboat is from OGA and the other two are from Mr War's modified Tech faction. Things will be rescaled soon, and more ships are coming.Idle: Done:thumbup:
Walking: Next
Casting: In Line
Dying: In Line
Attacking: ?
Also, I modified the rig some.
more ships are coming.More? How many is there? Is that just one faction or multiple? Do you have plans to make something different or more unique than a ship for some factions (such as a sea serpent for magic, as discussed in the past)?
More? How many is there? Is that just one faction or multiple? Do you have plans to make something different or more unique than a ship for some factions (such as a sea serpent for magic, as discussed in the past)?That's just Tech right there. I also plan to give them a transport ship and Mr. War's submarine. I think Magic may be able to make due without any water units, since they'll have teleporting units and dragons. The Dwarves are getting an amphibious transport unit (mostly done) and a few ships, as well as naval mines if I find a good way of making them work.
My proposal could be this: may Project Red become the root for a set of subprojects porting ALL MG-specific factions to GAE?If you want to grab a great faction like Woodsmen or Undead and GAE-ify them, I'll happily include it in Project Red, but that faction will have to be your pet project (not mine) because I just can't perform that much work myself. I'm already struggling to make much progress on just three factions. Regarding the Sci-fi pack, I think it might be better to include that separately, maybe under a meta-project that would include sub-projects for Project Red, Sci-fi pack, and whatever else, since it would have to be in a different tech tree. I'd certainly like to see more mods taking advantage of GAE's awesome features, but I have a lot of work to do already.
Of course, ported version would start as a new project, run in parallel with original MG mod, by different developers: so, porting will be zero cost for original developers and would add value to GAE but also to mod itself. Imperial faction for example uses this policy.My proposal could be this: may Project Red become the root for a set of subprojects porting ALL MG-specific factions to GAE?If you want to grab a great faction like Woodsmen or Undead and GAE-ify them, I'll happily include it in Project Red, but that faction will have to be your pet project (not mine) because I just can't perform that much work myself. I'm already struggling to make much progress on just three factions. Regarding the Sci-fi pack, I think it might be better to include that separately, maybe under a meta-project that would include sub-projects for Project Red, Sci-fi pack, and whatever else, since it would have to be in a different tech tree. I'd certainly like to see more mods taking advantage of GAE's awesome features, but I have a lot of work to do already.
Support; but you might want to consider making a new thread.Of course, ported version would start as a new project, run in parallel with original MG mod, by different developers: so, porting will be zero cost for original developers and would add value to GAE but also to mod itself. Imperial faction for example uses this policy.My proposal could be this: may Project Red become the root for a set of subprojects porting ALL MG-specific factions to GAE?If you want to grab a great faction like Woodsmen or Undead and GAE-ify them, I'll happily include it in Project Red, but that faction will have to be your pet project (not mine) because I just can't perform that much work myself. I'm already struggling to make much progress on just three factions. Regarding the Sci-fi pack, I think it might be better to include that separately, maybe under a meta-project that would include sub-projects for Project Red, Sci-fi pack, and whatever else, since it would have to be in a different tech tree. I'd certainly like to see more mods taking advantage of GAE's awesome features, but I have a lot of work to do already.
And ok, I'll give a look to these two factions; in related forums they're presented as compatible with both MG and GAE, but I'll try if compatibility is still full.
A small update: I've tested Undead in GAE, and it does NOT work in its original format. I've corrected a couple of incompatibility issues, it works well now.Just to be clear, are you simply going through mods and correcting anything that doesn't work on GAE, or are you planning to add GAE-centric elements to them like I'm doing with this project?
And sorry John about not finishing the healer, I kinda haven't been doing anything for awhile and just really getting back into it. I'll get to it when I have the chance.No problem, man. I've been swamped with outside stuff too. All he really needs is a texture, since he's already animated. Well, he also needs a voice and some sound effects, but I've actually got a volunteer from OGA assigned to doing voices for me. His first priority is going to be the Dwarves, though, so if you've got a decent mic I won't say no. ;D
A small update: I've tested Undead in GAE, and it does NOT work in its original format. I've corrected a couple of incompatibility issues, it works well now.Just to be clear, are you simply going through mods and correcting anything that doesn't work on GAE, or are you planning to add GAE-centric elements to them like I'm doing with this project?
How about fixing GAE to allow float emission rates?
(Its often the only incompatibility)
I thought it was a discussion on the things to consider/adjust when porting from MG to GAE not another pointless pissing match?
When porting MG mods that leverage later MG functionality you'll loose some stuff that GAE does not support. Goes for Annex, scifi pack, cold war pack, scifi tile sets etc
Yeah, this conversation is becoming pretty pointless, lets just note that to make a GAE mod work in MG would be just as difficult to make a MG mod work in GAE, and leave it at that.
One thing I'd love to see, is for a coder to take it upon themselves to fix pointless incompatibilities, and in the future programers take compatiblity into account more.I agree. Programmers are not doing us any favors by using completely different syntax for the same functionality.
The pig sounds were bothering me a bit, so..."Sounds" good. I'm currently having sound issues on my system so I couldn't even test how off the sounds were for the goat - but yeah, it would likely "sound" a lot better with no sounds at all (as oposed to having a goat make pig sounds ...).
https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/commit/ccfeec48cc427a9b992248512f61cada26b223a1 (https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/commit/ccfeec48cc427a9b992248512f61cada26b223a1)
The pig sounds were bothering me a bit, so...Awmawgawd! How could you? Those pig sounds were the best part of the mod! Naw, jokes aside, it's nice to see some more work on this, I was afraid it was on hold.
https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/commit/ccfeec48cc427a9b992248512f61cada26b223a1 (https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/commit/ccfeec48cc427a9b992248512f61cada26b223a1)
What were you afraid it were "on hold"? Project Red or the Dwarves Aglarond project? The later was definitelly over "on hold" for a very long time... :OThe pig sounds were bothering me a bit, so...Awmawgawd! How could you? Those pig sounds were the best part of the mod! Naw, jokes aside, it's nice to see some more work on this, I was afraid it was on hold.
https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/commit/ccfeec48cc427a9b992248512f61cada26b223a1 (https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/commit/ccfeec48cc427a9b992248512f61cada26b223a1)
Anyways, if I do get access to the audio files and I like them, can I add them to the next Aglarond release ? (this also depends on Wciow response on how the Aglarond version fits his plans for the Dwarves but assuming he's alright with it too...)Sure. You can take from me if I can take from you. ;D
EDIT: Got to the GIT binaries. They sound perfect! :thumbup:The sounds are from http://www.freesound.org/people/reinsamba/sounds/57794/ and http://www.freesound.org/people/confusion_music/sounds/103410/ . Both are CC-By, from their respective owners. I also have up-to-date information in credits.txt (https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/blob/master/project_red/credits.txt).
I'm adding them to my WIP copy of Dwarves Aglarond project. (Project Red will be CC-SA, right?). Will also copy your XML in (the meeting point addition is good too :thumbup: ).
Who (else besides yourself) and how should I credit the sounds? And under what license? (between published and unpublished material, I have already CC-SA, Public Domain and original author's consent to publish as CC-SA materials ...).
Not sure about other stuff you merged in (what was the original release you were working on BTW ? ) but did you merge my new teamcolor work on the Guardian and Outrider ?I don't remember which release I started with, so I could have missed some of your improvements. I did include your Outrider texture change. The Guardian was a bit too striking for me, so I made a kind of compromise.
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/guardiancomparison.png/][IMG]http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7969/guardiancomparison.png[/img][/URL]Mine is on the left, yours on the right.:thumbup:Anyways, if I do get access to the audio files and I like them, can I add them to the next Aglarond release ? (this also depends on Wciow response on how the Aglarond version fits his plans for the Dwarves but assuming he's alright with it too...)Sure. You can take from me if I can take from you. ;D
The sounds are from http://www.freesound.org/people/reinsamba/sounds/57794/ and http://www.freesound.org/people/confusion_music/sounds/103410/ . Both are CC-By, from their respective owners. I also have up-to-date information in credits.txt (https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red/blob/master/project_red/credits.txt). Thanks. :)Really? My pic on the Aglarond thread shows up a lot less orange-ish! And brighter too... So maybe you meant "Mine (John) is on right, yours (Jda) is on the left"? :-\QuoteQuoteNot sure about other stuff you merged in (what was the original release you were working on BTW ? ) but did you merge my new teamcolor work on the Guardian and Outrider ?I don't remember which release I started with, so I could have missed some of your improvements. I did include your Outrider texture change. The Guardian was a bit too striking for me, so I made a kind of compromise.Code: [Select][URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/guardiancomparison.png/][IMG]http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7969/guardiancomparison.png[/img][/URL]Mine is on the left, yours on the right.
I definitely look forward to any of your future improvements. :)8)
The only new unit I've made for the Dwarves is the "Turtle", which is an amphibious (i.e. land and water) transport vehicle, but I plan to add more ships eventually. I also got some new attack sounds for the Cannoneer and Defense Tower, and made some XML tweaks (e.g. Cannoneer does impact damage).I've seen a bit of the turtle in this thread and sounds and looks good. Was undecided in that regard (I always had the intention of moving the Dwarves into GAE once I got the basic (vanilla Glest) faction sorted out, but hadn't figured out what to do in terms of water units).
Really? My pic on the Aglarond thread shows up a lot less orange-ish! And brighter too... So maybe you meant "Mine (John) is on right, yours (Jda) is on the left"? :-\Nope, the darker one was definitely my version.
Anyhow, that was revision 1. Revision 2 was probably nicer at a closer look but didn't really show up that well ingame, at the normal zooming you play it.
Picking up on the Dragon Slayer anims now, then Outrider anims, then maybe the construction/destruction models or on texturing/animating the skyship - and decide if I release it as an engineer morph (like the bombard currently, or do a building to produce both).Heh... I know the feeling. I tend to commit to doing a ton of work on a project, then getting distracted and leaving for a few months at a time. Regarding sounds, I had someone over at opengameart.org volunteer to do some voices, but I haven't heard from him in a while. Maybe I should give him a shout.
There's also teamcolor to be added to some buildings and, if I recall it correctly, the worker and miner units...?
And... there are the icons.
And putting in original sounds (though you started on that already) and reviewing the music.
And... keep working on balance and gameplay. And... a couple surprises here and there. ;D
Honestly, I'll be happy if I get the first paragraph done before RL gets me back out of modding. :O
I've seen a bit of the turtle in this thread and sounds and looks good. Was undecided in that regard (I always had the intention of moving the Dwarves into GAE once I got the basic (vanilla Glest) faction sorted out, but hadn't figured out what to do in terms of water units).The water units I currently have planned are the Turtle, Dragon Ship (a fast attack ship with a circular saw), Thunder Ship (big cannons for bombardment), and a Utility Barge (kind of like a floating Stronghold).
Regarding the cannoneer... I see him as kind of a musketeer... Impact instead of Piercing?... Well, yeah, I guess, could be.I feel like the impact damage multipliers are closer to how a bullet works, tearing straight through armor and such.
Well, this is the one I posted on the Dwarves thread:QuoteReally? My pic on the Aglarond thread shows up a lot less orange-ish! And brighter too... So maybe you meant "Mine (John) is on right, yours (Jda) is on the left"? :-\Nope, the darker one was definitely my version.
Anyhow, that was revision 1. Revision 2 was probably nicer at a closer look but didn't really show up that well ingame, at the normal zooming you play it.
[img]http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9105/guardiantexture1.png[/img]Doesn't at all look like that oreange-ish you atribute to me. Don't know where you got it from, but it ain't mine! :PRegarding sounds, I had someone over at opengameart.org volunteer to do some voices, but I haven't heard from him in a while. Maybe I should give him a shout.Yeah, sounds good, hopefully he'll shout back dwarven-like. :D
The water units I currently have planned are the Turtle, Dragon Ship (a fast attack ship with a circular saw), Thunder Ship (big cannons for bombardment), and a Utility Barge (kind of like a floating Stronghold).Whoa, sounds like a lot of units! Do you really need that many? Are all factions going to have the same range of water-able units (I understand Magic will play it differently, sounds great!)? :look:
Hum. I remember going a bit round and round with balancing the cannoneer (in the overall balance while still trying to keep the dwarves as mellee-focused as possible - hard, very hard ::) ). I don't remember now whether making the cannonner's shot piercing instead of impact was part of the problem or part of the sollution... :OQuoteRegarding the cannoneer... I see him as kind of a musketeer... Impact instead of Piercing?... Well, yeah, I guess, could be.I feel like the impact damage multipliers are closer to how a bullet works, tearing straight through armor and such.