MegaGlest Forum

Off topic => Off topic => Topic started by: Gabbe on 1 May 2011, 11:45:59

Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 1 May 2011, 11:45:59
Can we disguiss politics any soon? :|
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 1 May 2011, 17:16:07
I don't think so...  :-X  :(
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: John.d.h on 1 May 2011, 18:36:02
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/2851814771_38b1ff5e57.jpg)
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 1 May 2011, 19:20:03
When?
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 2 May 2011, 01:03:43
Never Gabbe. Just never.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 01:15:14
Why?
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 2 May 2011, 01:41:17
It's because some members just can't debate rationally, sadly. Before I joined this board I never really thought of such a thing though, as I just thought it's what everybody does since it's so obvious.
Anyways,
(click to show/hide)
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 01:46:54
That some members can use proper arguments does not mean that they can`t be moderated, as such moderation happens on all forums, dedicated to it or off-topic for the boards purpose. Ang here on glest.org/glest_board/index.php there is a overwhelming amount of moderators. The forum does not become 4chan if anyone is acting childish on a "adult" subject.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 2 May 2011, 01:52:42
That some members can use proper arguments does not mean that they can`t be moderated, as such moderation happens on all forums, dedicated to it or off-topic for the boards purpose. Ang here on glest.org/glest_board/index.php there is a overwhelming amount of moderators. The forum does not become 4chan if anyone is acting childish on a "adult" subject.
Well, yes, of course. So the other problem is that moderators got annoyed after moderating some certain discussions.
Overwhelming? Not really  :angel:
I wonder though, what happens when a moderator gets out of hand? While moderating or debating, not sure if that happened before but then it gets ugly...
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 01:56:46
Moderators should abide the rules, and if not, removed their moderator position. Moderators on the interwebz arte supposed to be dead machines walking around and doing there thing in their topics and forum corners. + moderating regular users. if a moderator really deserves the rank, he or she should not go wild`n crazy IF he or she is shown to have a faulty position in a debate.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 2 May 2011, 02:05:02
Yep.  :thumbup:
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Omega on 2 May 2011, 02:15:32
Past experiences have shown that we just cannot handle these. As well, because of the international format of the Board, with statistics showing me we have visitors from pretty much every country in the world, we don't want to alienate those with opinions contrasting the arguments. And don't expect to see it in the future either. Ever.

I'm with John here:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/2851814771_38b1ff5e57.jpg)

There's plenty of other forums you can use to debate such things, this forum is not the place to do so, though.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 02:32:22
If im the problem i`ve grown up now :| :| :|

And besides, its the internet, of course it is international.

And iv'e tried other forums but there just old men nutcases with apparently old english spelling, i want to disguiss with the guys i know from this forum, hence why i ask so foten..
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Omega on 2 May 2011, 03:00:48
If im the problem i`ve grown up now :| :| :|
It's not just you, though, worth noting you still troll. :P

But really, this just isn't the place, and what do you have against old english writing?
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 2 May 2011, 03:03:37
Well IMO I think everyone can handle it now, hopefully. It wouldn't really hurt...
Otherwise this forum does get a bit boring and etc sometimes. Mainly in the OT section...
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 2 May 2011, 03:15:55
I think it could be done, but I'm against it, because it certainly doesn't do any good for peoples opinions of each other around here.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 2 May 2011, 03:21:33
Well, I just remember it was a lot more fun when we had those debates. For me, at least, even if I don't agree on something; I'll still respect them and etc...and that's what people should do, usually.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 05:46:22
Yes it was a lot of fun to debate, *looks to Omega* :| :|
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Omega on 2 May 2011, 06:43:15
I'll still respect them and etc...and that's what people should do, usually.
Should, but don't. Remember the abortion debate? The Creationism vs Evolutionism debate? Not only did they go nowhere, but they ended up just a massive flamewar. You can always do them on other sites, as modman did, which are geared specifically at doing that.

Also, yes, Osama Bin Ladin is dead, and you're welcome to discuss it, but bear in mind that we don't want/need any propaganda, in particular, the continuous shouting "USA, USA, USA...".
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 13:03:40
Were did politics gone wrong in this forum i see no?
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 2 May 2011, 17:27:41
Were did politics gone wrong in this forum i see no?

Dude, discussion of politics has never brought anything good to the community. :|
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: wciow on 2 May 2011, 20:31:42
Dude, discussion of politics has never brought anything good to the community. :|

I agree  :swordman: I would love to see some intelligent political and/or philosophical debate in this part of the forum but it just doesn't seem possible without devolving into personal flamewars and factless opinions which border on racism/sexism/homophobia.

I don't think this has much to do with the Glest community, more it is the nature of the internet. Check out, youtube or other sites that allow comments. Regardless of the original topic within a few posts it will degenerate into childish name-calling over the slightest difference of opinion  :'(

Basically any topics which start by dividing people into two camps will get very ugly very quickly.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 20:36:46
The job of the moderators is not to sit around and have pretty colourfull stars, but to slam down on such things. Once someone attacks the person instead of the argument, then give that person who did such thing a warning and remove the post.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Omega on 2 May 2011, 21:38:49
The job of the moderators is not to sit around and have pretty colourfull stars, but to slam down on such things. Once someone attacks the person instead of the argument, then give that person who did such thing a warning and remove the post.
Better idea: Don't have such topics at all and save us all the pain. There hasn't been a single one that didn't end up locked eventually.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 21:48:02
Food cause disease -> remove all food so disease no longer exist

hell, why do we even have this board, why not just remove it to save us all the pain. Why is the internet on? WHy? It causes so much trolling and unseriousness.

Such topics are fun to disguiss, i think we all can agree, what we cannot agree on is weather or not the moderators can handle it right? But what are moderators for?
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 2 May 2011, 22:35:14
No Gabbe, bad ingredients cause sickness/disease. By avoiding those bad ingredients, we can avoid most disease.
The solution to sickness is not to have all this healthcare stuff and more doctors, it's for people to eat better and use supplements to avoid all these problems. That was not meant to be political in any way, it is simply an analogy. Instead of talking about politics and making us moderators baby the slapping matches political discussions, we can not talk about those things, and avoid all the trouble in the first place.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 22:36:39
So you do not agree that it would have entertainment value to be able to disguiss these things?
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 2 May 2011, 22:46:24
We do not need 'entertainment' on the forum. Once again Gabbe, politics has done, and can do no good.
The answer is no.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 22:47:53
I think that it would still be value in disguissing it sometime..
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 2 May 2011, 22:49:34
I think that it would still be value in disguissing it sometime..

Not on this forum, ever.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 2 May 2011, 22:50:06
Yes mr.ultimatum bring out the banhammer.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 2 May 2011, 23:33:21
Why can't those members mature or change, though? Is it that hard?

Also, yes, Osama Bin Ladin is dead, and you're welcome to discuss it, but bear in mind that we don't want/need any propaganda, in particular, the continuous shouting "USA, USA, USA...".
No one I personally know has actually done that.  :angel: We also don't need the opposite of that too... I guess if you knew someone that was in New York @ 9/11 though, I guess it's understandable...
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 2 May 2011, 23:38:11
Quote
Why can't those members mature or change, though? Is it that hard?
Ultifd, whether you like it or not, whether you think it happens or not, politics harms peoples friendships. It always has, always will, we don't need any politics here. :|

Quote
Quote from: Omega on Today at 01:43:15
Also, yes, Osama Bin Ladin is dead, and you're welcome to discuss it, but bear in mind that we don't want/need any propaganda, in particular, the continuous shouting "USA, USA, USA...".
No one I personally know has actually done that.  Angelic We also don't need the opposite of that too...

Chyah. :thumbup:
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 2 May 2011, 23:50:29
Quote
Why can't those members mature or change, though? Is it that hard?
Ultifd, whether you like it or not, whether you think it happens or not, politics harms peoples friendships. It always has, always will, we don't need any politics here. :|
I've never experienced that, honestly. I don't somehow "de-friend" someone because they have opposite views or anything...especially in real life too. People should just learn to respect and etc. Not that hard. Just debate...and maybe have some fun and seeing how others see things. That's the real problem.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 00:17:27
 :thumbup:+1

you brought the point through.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Zoythrus on 3 May 2011, 00:27:00
Were did politics gone wrong in this forum i see no?

Dude, discussion of politics has never brought anything good to the community. :|

guys, i am a veteran who was involved in many debates, and they all end the same - flamewars and shouting. debating gets us nowhere....now, a discussion is something completely different.....
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: John.d.h on 3 May 2011, 00:31:24
Gabbe, take my word for it when I say you won't win this one.  The entire off-topic board is nice to have, but it is a privilege and not a right.  If we don't keep it tidy, we risk losing it entirely.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 3 May 2011, 00:35:51
Gabbe, take my word for it when I say you won't win this one.  The entire off-topic board is nice to have, but it is a privilege and not a right.  If we don't keep it tidy, we risk losing it entirely.

 :thumbup:
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 3 May 2011, 00:55:43
Don't make it messy then. Be responsible...  :|
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 01:07:26
Then keep it tidy, like ultifd and zoythrus pointed out, disguissions doesn`t have to be hostile, and you don`t have to de-friend someone because they don`t agree with you.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: John.d.h on 3 May 2011, 01:15:08
We are keeping it tidy... by avoiding politics and religion. :P
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 01:17:41
I don`t want to disguiss no religion. ;)

What i think is that now the community surely could handle a well moderated and proper disguission about, for example, Obamas administration, the recent arabic revolts and such.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 3 May 2011, 02:20:54
Then keep it tidy, like ultifd and zoythrus pointed out, disguissions doesn`t have to be hostile, and you don`t have to de-friend someone because they don`t agree with you.
Simple Fact: Knowing someones political views changes the way you think about them. It doesn't mean you 'de-friend' them.
If you're curious to know someone's political views just ask them via PM.

How about we ask the administrators if they will allow you to try one political topic under heavy moderation. Then we do a poll to see what the people want. How's that sound Gabbe?
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 3 May 2011, 02:32:02
It gives me more pain to see that we're a semi-censored forum...  :angel:
Simple Fact: Knowing someones political views changes the way you think about them. It doesn't mean you 'de-friend' them.
Ifi it's like that, then it's basically the same thing, like when people say they just dislike something a lot=hate. And that's not a fact, and it doesn't seem to apply to most of the members. I'd like to see a reputable source if you really have one, though. I guess that's finally something us members can debate about. Anyways, if some people can't handle it, then maybe they just shouldn't contribute to the discussion then. There, problem solved as there are always others for debating. I can't see why anyone can't handle it though, I think they teach that kinda stuff in middle school or that most people learn it in life anyways. It's not like we're Youtube, 4chan, or anything else. We're all decent people...
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 02:57:00
Quote
Simple Fact: Knowing someones political views changes the way you think about them. It doesn't mean you 'de-friend' them.

I for one could not see this as fact, based on how we became friends, it was through all of these non-negotiable-not-to-be-disguissed topics, it had the opposite effect of your fact. And to be quite frankly i don`t care for someones political view, but everyone has a opinon on everything and thats what is so interesting to disguiss.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 3 May 2011, 02:59:26
Quote
Simple Fact: Knowing someones political views changes the way you think about them. It doesn't mean you 'de-friend' them.

I for one could not see this as fact, based on how we became friends, it was through all of these non-negotiable-not-to-be-disguissed topics, it had the opposite effect of your fact. And to be quite frankly i don`t care for someones political view, but everyone has a opinon on everything and thats what is so interesting to disguiss.
:thumbup:
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: John.d.h on 3 May 2011, 03:08:24
I want to at least keep the illusion that we're all respectable people, but some of the ignorant, bigoted, and self-servingly closed-minded crap I see in these kinds of debates has made that very difficult.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 03:20:12
https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=5156.575

It has been a year John, I think its time to move on.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 3 May 2011, 03:25:46
@Ultifd: Sorry I can't see much relation between what you quoted and what you said...

@Gabbe: If you read carefully, I said 'changes the way you think about them'. It can be for good, or bad. And we simply got talking about politics/evolution and trailed off into other stuff, the debates are not why we became friends. Also, a debate between two people is a lot easier to maintain, than between a whole bunch of people.

@John: Not to mention that debating with text is far harder, and of course more prone to misunderstanding.

@All:
Quote
How about we ask the administrators if they will allow you to try one political topic under heavy moderation. Then we do a poll to see what the people want. How's that sound Gabbe?
So?
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 03:27:27
Not only the administration.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: John.d.h on 3 May 2011, 03:30:56
https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=5156.575

It has been a year John, I think its time to move on.
What, you think the community has matured that much since then?  I don't.  Maybe some individuals have, but as a whole I don't think so.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 03:33:25
And who`s job is it to slam down on such things that get out of hand?
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Zoythrus on 3 May 2011, 03:33:44
https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=5156.575

It has been a year John, I think its time to move on.
What, you think the community has matured that much since then?  I don't.  Maybe some individuals have, but as a whole I don't think so.
agreed
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: John.d.h on 3 May 2011, 04:02:06
And who`s job is it to slam down on such things that get out of hand?
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Zoythrus on 3 May 2011, 04:04:12
And who`s job is it to slam down on such things that get out of hand?
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
John deserves some kudos!  :thumbup:
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 3 May 2011, 04:39:24
And who`s job is it to slam down on such things that get out of hand?
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
John deserves some kudos!  :thumbup:

John why is it that you say the most brilliant things of all?  :thumbup:
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 05:05:10
And who`s job is it to slam down on such things that get out of hand?
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

But that is a misrepresentation of the issue. Simply, it is not a ounce of prevention, but a removal of half the fun atleast.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 3 May 2011, 05:25:09
And who`s job is it to slam down on such things that get out of hand?
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

But that is a misrepresentation of the issue. Simply, it is not a ounce of prevention, but a removal of half the fun atleast.
I think I liked the forum better without an Off-topic board........Yep I did.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 05:42:37
I liked the forum better with the Off-topic board, yap i did.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 3 May 2011, 06:00:38
While this board had its ups and downs, it does sometime have some fun and good topics...before, at least.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Omega on 3 May 2011, 06:07:33
Why are we still discussing this? This is going nowhere... Can't we just...drop?

And who`s job is it to slam down on such things that get out of hand?
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
This.

What, you think the community has matured that much since then?  I don't.  Maybe some individuals have, but as a whole I don't think so.
And this.

Wow, John has some pretty words of wisdom.

Simple Fact: Knowing someones political views changes the way you think about them. It doesn't mean you 'de-friend' them.
Just because you don't, or Ultifd doesn't, or even Gabbe doesn't, won't mean the same for the other members of the community. I don't normally like censorship much, but I cannot deny there are times when it's useful or needed. For example, we have a very open community, from all parts of the world, all all sides of all opinions. We don't want to alienate them with debates. And censorship isn't always bad. eg: in the MMORPG Runescape, there is a censor on the chat, which has the lovely convenience of letting you filter out all the 12 year old's strings of profanity.

Bottom line though, this topic isn't going anywhere, and I think we should just let it go.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 3 May 2011, 07:19:56
And who`s job is it to slam down on such things that get out of hand?
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
How was the electricity back then, Mr. Franklin?  :P
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 13:03:09
I am not blind, i can clearly see some issues regarding this. Hence why I said that it should be under moderation.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Zoythrus on 3 May 2011, 15:19:04
Gabbe, just quit now, you're losing anyways. we're just staying clear of any potentially destructive discussions.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: John.d.h on 3 May 2011, 19:40:07
How was the electricity back then, Mr. Franklin?  :P
Better than the syphilis. :O

I am not blind, i can clearly see some issues regarding this. Hence why I said that it should be under moderation.
Moderation is what we're doing. :|
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 20:21:04
I am not blind, i can clearly see some issues regarding this. Hence why I said that it should be under moderation.
Moderation is what we're doing. :|
[/quote]

No, not yet.
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: will on 3 May 2011, 21:19:46
Quote
Moderation is what we're doing. :|

No, not yet.

BAN HIM!  HE'S ASKING FOR IT!
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: Gabbe on 3 May 2011, 21:23:54
Err, no im not? Expressing my opinion is certianly not asking for a ban...
Title: Can we have politics?
Post by: -Archmage- on 4 May 2011, 05:02:37
Gabbe, we understand what you want, and we are opposed to it. :|

Quote
I am not blind, i can clearly see some issues regarding this. Hence why I said that it should be under moderation.
Moderation is what we're doing. :|

No, not yet.

Our job is to stop trouble, and enforce the rules. We are stopping a problem at it's source rather than running around scooping up it's by-products. We are moderating, more efficiently than you think. :P
Title: Re: Can we have politics?
Post by: ultifd on 4 May 2011, 05:07:21
Un-stickied. 
Title: Re: Can we have politics?
Post by: John.d.h on 4 May 2011, 05:08:15
Un-stickied. 
Ah, you beat me to it.

Our job is to stop trouble, and enforce the rules. We are stopping a problem at it's source rather than running around scooping up it's by-products. We are moderating, more efficiently than you think. :P
You know what's even more efficient?  This. (http://glest.org/glest_board/Themes/glestthemev25/images/icons/quick_lock.gif)
Unless you really feel it necessary to draw this out more, I'd rather put it to rest.