MegaGlest Forum
Modding and game content creation => Mods => Topic started by: ElimiNator on 6 July 2011, 02:15:24
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New Creek faction:
I changed Indians from the megapack adding/changing some of them. I made lots of new models so tell me what you think.
Download: Here (http://www.soft-haus.com/jacob/blog/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=52)
Screen shot:
[img]http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/264074_2134385129473_1541414237_2216040_4596241_n.jpg[/img]
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Nice new and retextured models! Perhaps we could rename the other Indian faction to a tribe name, and then package it with this. I don't have time to try it out now, but I think some of the models still need some work though.
For example, viewing from the G3D viewer, the bottom design of the tent looks blurry. And for all the Squaw (Maybe you might want to rename it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squaw#Controversy), I guess it's as controversial as "Indian or Native American"...) you might want to re-model it a bit...)
I'll try testing tomorrow...yay, something new.
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Hi it's always good to see new factions. :)
New models looks good. I like cornfield and longhouse(looks a bit simple though, could do better), chieftain.
I found the "burns out" campfire is interesting.
I wonder the tomahawk thrower and the thomahawk indian, are they really need to be separate units? I think it would be good to have them join together and give him both melee attack and throwing tomahawk skill.
Why does it have two maintainpees buildings in it? one is "maintainpee" and another one is "maintainpee_".
I can see no difference between these two buildings except for their names.
Shaman can't heal spearman.
How can I access to cheiftain?
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here's my question for you: what are the main gameplay differences between the Creeks and the normal Indians (which somewhat resemble the Sioux)? are their only differences cosmetic? where's the fun in that?
second, if you were really trying to replicate the style of the Muskogee (Creek) peoples, then you would know that they didnt have teepees or longhouses. the best pic i can find is this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chromesun_kincaid_site_01.jpg
now, looking at the pic of the mod that you gave, they seem to resemble the Iroquois, but even then the Iroquois werent known to use teepees (only the Native Americans who lived on the plains used those - such as the Sioux). if you were going for the Iroquois look, then remove the teepees and go with longhouses.
you're getting there!
-Zoy
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How can I access to cheiftain?
Upgrade bravery from the long house, the produce him from the war tent.
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Woah, where did you get your knowledge of all these tribes? I think I learned about the Native Americans when I was like...5th Grade? Can't remember, obviously.
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if you were really trying to replicate the style of the Muskogee (Creek) peoples, then you would know that they didnt have teepees or longhouses
This is an issue. Yours seem to more resemble the Cree, one of North America's largest aboriginal groups, and the largest in Canada, as I'm sure you already know. Calling them simply something like the "Cree" would be best, as terms like "Indian" are rather controversial and incorrect.
here's my question for you: what are the main gameplay differences between the Creeks and the normal Indians (which somewhat resemble the Sioux)? are their only differences cosmetic? where's the fun in that?
I gotta be blunt, if you're going to make a faction of the same kind as an existing faction, you're going to need higher quality. You need something to set it apart really, otherwise, it's just an inferior clone.
Did you perform any research on which ever aboriginal group you mean to be referring to here?
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How can I access to cheiftain?
Upgrade bravery from the long house, the produce him from the war tent.
Ah hah, I passed over the war tent, thx.
I think Bison is too strong.
and what Chieftain's fire shield skill does? Looking for xml, seems It's a some kind of emanations skill, does Megaglest also support emanations effect now?
(sry now i get it. https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7315.0 )
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/squaw.jpg/][IMG]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3085/squaw.jpg[/img][/URL]and Nice boobs! :o
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...Anyways, yeah. Slim down please. I think their overall body is a bit slim though... :angel: tummy?
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I did not test the latest version of it, but just a suggestion for the field, maybe you can make the plants grow with the new effect where the build anim progress is bound to the current HP ? Would be a nice demo for this too ;D:
https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7360.0
Hm, the creeks have beehives too? Anyone has another cool idea ? What about small totems sending out transparent ( and maybe animated? ) ghosts of the forefathers? This will show willvarfars feature with animated projectiles too :D
Talking about animated projectiles, how about a rotating axe for the axethrower?
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OK, fool around with the animated projectiles.
I think Bison is too strong.
and what Chieftain's fire shield skill does? Looking for xml, seems It's a some kind of emanations skill, does Megaglest also support emanations effect now?
(sry now i get it. https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7315.0 )
Hmm, I look into that.
And yup more and more stuff that GAE has is being implemented. :)
Actually, I made this faction quite a wile ago. I just only uploaded. I don't think Ill be doing to many changes.
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Actually, I made this faction quite a wile ago. I just only uploaded. I don't think Ill be doing to many changes.
No offense, but that's the way it always goes with you - you make something of relatively low quality, distribute it, then give up on it. personally, i think you should actually make something good out of this faction, something different from the other Native American faction (which i think should be updated).
you and your family have skill, Elim, but you guys never seem to fully capitalize on it
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Actually, I made this faction quite a wile ago. I just only uploaded. I don't think Ill be doing to many changes.
Somewhat disappointed. :(
I'm a bit with omega and zoy, I'd like to see you guys make a faction with strong research and efforts.
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you and your family have skill, Elim, but you guys never seem to fully capitalize on it
Hmm...Dinosaurs was pretty good. MG is pretty good. :P
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Maybe you can make the plants grow with the new effect where the build
This I will do.
Hm, the creeks have beehives too? Anyone has another cool idea?
Yah, any defences that Indians used.
Hmm, what type of Indians fit this pack the most? Ill change the few things that are different.
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I just wanted to send out a warning about the <anim-hp-bound> tag, its renamed now see:
https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7360.msg75254#msg75254
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Thanks, good thing I didn't upload the version of creeks with <anim-hp-bound>.
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Hm, the creeks have beehives too? Anyone has another cool idea?
Yah, any defences that Indians used.
why not do it like this: give these Indians a defense tower (not a retex of the Tech one), and leave the original Indians with the beehive. but here's the balance, the tower has greater attack power, while the beehive has greater range.
since this faction already has a longhouse, you may want to make them the Iroquois, since it fits them best. that means they'll need throwing tomahawk guys and spearmen.
here's an idea, packing all of the native american factions together (Original Indians, these guys, and the new Aztecs)
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Did Iroquois have tepees?
I already have throwing tomahawk guys and spearmen.
And if I had a defence tower, what would it look like?
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Did Iroquois have tepees?
I already have throwing tomahawk guys and spearmen.
And if I had a defence tower, what would it look like?
no, they had longhouses, look at pics of the Iroquois from AoE3 for ideas (and [wiki]longhouse[/wiki] at wikipedia)
i forgot that they did, but you may need to give them a more Iroquois appearance, right now the original Indians look like the Sioux, so the original texes/models wont do.
idk...im not the expert on Native American architecture! maybe a lookout post of some sort
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Why don't I call them Sioux?
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Why don't I call them Sioux?
because the Original, Megapack Indian faction more resembles the Sioux than your new guys. if you were going to make them the Sioux, you would need to give them more cavalry options, because the Sioux were very reliant on horses.
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How about a archer on a horse?
I wanted these guys to be Prairie Indians.
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How about a archer on a horse?
I wanted these guys to be Prairie Indians.
yeah, that'd work. well, when you say "these guys," do you mean the MegaPack guys or the "reason you started this thread" guys? my opinion is that you give the cavalry archer to the MegaPack guys
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By these guys I mean this topic (Creeks...)
Should I call them Prairie Indians?
And I can't change MegaPack, you will have to talk to Titi.
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Please do more research on various Aboriginal peoples. I'm sure it [lmgtfy=aboriginals]won't be too hard[/lmgtfy]. I thought this was a vital part of the Canadian school curriculum anyway?
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well, thing about the Prairie Indians is that Titi's guys are much more "Prairie" than yours. if you made another set of Prairie Indians, they'd just make the distinction between the two factions very hard (in short, "white noise").
you should go for a more "Woodland Indian" feel because that would be a very good counter-faction to Titi's guys. also, the Woodland Indians used longhouses, not teepees; and the Iroquois (who were woodland based) were of a matriarchal-type structure, so female workers are a nice fit. you seem to already be going on a good path for a set of Woodland Indians.
now, if you arent satisfied with Woodland guys, theres a bunch of other Native American groups you could go with any of the tribes listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas
if you pick another tribe or area, i would suggest that you do research on that topic, no one likes a horribly historically-inaccurate faction.
just for the sake of saying it, i want you to know that i am not trying to be condescending, mean, rude, or against your ideas in any way, im just trying to help make your ideas better.
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I think Ill call them Iroquois.
I still want to have some tepees.
What do you think I should change to make them more Iroquoian?
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What do you think I should change to make them more Iroquoian?
Get rid of the teepees.
I still want to have some tepees.
To be blunt, if you want a good faction, it's going to have to be historically accurate... This may be of help: http://www.native-languages.org/houses.htm
Research materials:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois
Though, I'm sure you know plenty about them, seeing that knowledge of First Natives is a standard part of Canada's (and probably USA's too) education system. Please be sure to be at least reasonable accurate, as that's really the cost you have to pay to base a mod on a real life group of people. It's just an insult to them to have inaccuracies (heck, don't call them indians. First natives or aboriginals would be a more accurate name), stereotypes, and such. Please do them some good and get it right.
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Hmm...I'm pretty sure they were/are homeschooled.
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(heck, don't call them indians. First natives or aboriginals would be a more accurate name)
well, apparently, many would prefer "American Indian" or "Native American." (so says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controversy)
the thing about political correctness is that ironically it cant cater to everyone. but in this case, calling the faction the Iroquois is your best bet. if you need to refer to all of the factions that are based upon the Amerinds, you may want to go with one of the two terms i stated above.
also, as Omega said, if you are going to base a faction around a real group, you have to do them justice. find out - "what did their buildings/units look like?", "what were their fighting styles?", and "what was their culture?".
about culture, many (if not all) of their techs would have to be based around their culture. you cant just say "fatten cows" for a "food production increase" tech, go with something more like "perform rain ceremony" or something of that nature. honestly, one of the things that frustrates me the most about your previous mods is that ive seen techs called things like "more strength" or "fighting women," you cant do that.
good luck! Omega and i will be there for advice if you need it (please ask us, we want to help you)
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(heck, don't call them indians. First natives or aboriginals would be a more accurate name)
well, apparently, many would prefer "American Indian" or "Native American." (so says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controversy)
Yes, only in American though. In Canada, they would be "aboriginals", and the Iroquois are spread through Southern Canada and Northern USA. Suppose it'd be easier to just avoid the terms all together and use "Iroquois" as a name for the faction and use more specific names for units.
good luck! Omega and i will be there for advice if you need it (please ask us, we want to help you)
:thumbup:
Hmm...I'm pretty sure they were/are homeschooled.
Homeschooled or not, research is easy as typing "[lmgtfy]Wikipedia[/lmgtfy]".
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Ill have one tepee/tent made with birch bark.
And can't I just call them Iroquois?
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Ill have one tepee/tent made with birch bark.
you're pushing the boundaries, but as long as it is in Iroquoian style, then things should be ok.
And can't I just call them Iroquois?
if you are implying that you are going to make some stupid faction and tack on the name "Iroquois," then no. but if you are going to make a fairly true-to-history, amazingly awesome faction, then by all means go for it! Calling them just "Iroquois" would be perfectly fitting. when it comes to units in particular, go attempt to go with accurate names (maybe use Iroquoian words for the weapons or something, look back at the Aztec thread for details). honestly, it doesnt matter what you call them as long as it's not "Stick Man" or "Horse Guy."
now, ultimately, im not entirely sure how you Canadians are taught to refer to the tribal peoples of the North American continent, but i guess that if you were to release a pack of multiple aboriginal factions (which you should), you could go with "The First Peoples Pack" or something.
ok, just to throw something out there, Omega, do you think that this faction should have a rifle-toting unit? im assuming that this is around the time that American settlers were expanding West, which would make sense for the Iroquois to have traded rifles with the settlers. if so, maybe he could either be a heavy infantry or possibly a skirmisher (high damage, low HP/armor)
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Hmm...I'm pretty sure they were/are homeschooled.
Homeschooled or not, research is easy as typing "[lmgtfy]Wikipedia[/lmgtfy]".
I was saying that because you said "education system". :angel:
But yes, there is always wikipedia. Of course, you have to check the sources...
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Ill have one tepee/tent made with birch bark.
you're pushing the boundaries, but as long as it is in Iroquoian style, then things should be ok.
Strong opposition because it's just not right. Please, read the links we've given. The whole page. The knowledge will do you good anyway.
if you are implying that you are going to make some stupid faction and tack on the name "Iroquois," then no. but if you are going to make a fairly true-to-history, amazingly awesome faction, then by all means go for it! Calling them just "Iroquois" would be perfectly fitting. when it comes to units in particular, go attempt to go with accurate names (maybe use Iroquoian words for the weapons or something, look back at the Aztec thread for details). honestly, it doesnt matter what you call them as long as it's not "Stick Man" or "Horse Guy."
+1 :thumbup:
ok, just to throw something out there, Omega, do you think that this faction should have a rifle-toting unit? im assuming that this is around the time that American settlers were expanding West, which would make sense for the Iroquois to have traded rifles with the settlers. if so, maybe he could either be a heavy infantry or possibly a skirmisher (high damage, low HP/armor)
Depends on what time exactly this is supposed to be, though they could certainly have some guns. My knowledge is stronger on the Metis and such than the Iroquios, but if one tribe can get their hands on guns and stage a rebellion, surely others could too.
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Indeed, the presence or absence of guns really depends on the time period, and therefore what factions you would expect them to be fighting. During the [wiki]Norse colonization of the Americas[/wiki], there weren't even horses anywhere in the New World yet (they were brought over by the Spanish in the 1500s), and guns hadn't been invented yet anywhere in the world. However, if they're meant to be fighting the British (think [wiki]French and Indian War[/wiki]), then many of them certainly would have guns and horses.
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im assuming that this is more of a "French/Indian War" period. guns are a must (but only 1 or 2 units should have guns, got that Elim?)
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Maybe they will have guns, I don't know yet.
Should I have all the buildings longhouses? That differ in shape/size/name?
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all longhouses? that wouldnt be a bad idea (anything's better than teepees). but just make sure that they are all easily identifiable from a distance. (many size/shape differences would be nice.)
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What else would I have other than longhouses?
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perhaps in the same vein as Hage's Japanese faction, you can give the Iroquois a European trading post. this would allow for the creation of musket-wielding troops as well as provide a few European upgrades (to symbolize their relationships with the settlers).
a farm would also be a necessity, because they were avid agriculturists. food should replace housing as a consumable resource. they believed that corn, beans, and squash were the three greatest gifts given by the gods, so maybe the farms should be able to research those beans and squash (two separate upgrades) to enhance food production.
you may want to have a temple of some sort that produces Shamans (as well as produces a few religion-based upgrades). the Shamans should have a weaker attack than the original Shamans, but can have a HP regen and Attack buff emanation around themselves (to differentiate themselves from the other Shamans). NOTE: this means that the Iroquois shaman wouldnt build anything (for balance of course).
after reading about them, the Iroquois seemed to be economic experts. perhaps, if you make a big Amerind pack, then the Iroquois should have the greatest economy. maybe make their army a tad on the weaker side to compensate for their amazing economy?
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What good will an "economy" be?
a farm would also be a necessity, because they were avid agriculturists. food should replace housing as a consumable resource. they believed that corn, beans, and squash were the three greatest gifts given by the gods, so maybe the farms should be able to research those beans and squash (two separate upgrades) to enhance food production.
I know, I have a corn field. Maybe you can build a corn field and upgrade it to beans, then squash.
you may want to have a temple of some sort that produces Shamans (as well as produces a few religion-based upgrades). the Shamans should have a weaker attack than the original Shamans, but can have a HP regen and Attack buff emanation around themselves (to differentiate themselves from the other Shamans). NOTE: this means that the Iroquois shaman wouldnt build anything (for balance of course).
I don't think Iroquois had temples. And what other building could I have other then longhouses?
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What good will an "economy" be?
a farm would also be a necessity, because they were avid agriculturists. food should replace housing as a consumable resource. they believed that corn, beans, and squash were the three greatest gifts given by the gods, so maybe the farms should be able to research those beans and squash (two separate upgrades) to enhance food production.
I know, I have a corn field. Maybe you can build a corn field and upgrade it to beans, then squash.
you may want to have a temple of some sort that produces Shamans (as well as produces a few religion-based upgrades). the Shamans should have a weaker attack than the original Shamans, but can have a HP regen and Attack buff emanation around themselves (to differentiate themselves from the other Shamans). NOTE: this means that the Iroquois shaman wouldnt build anything (for balance of course).
I don't think Iroquois had temples. And what other building could I have other then longhouses?
1. an economy is one of the greatest things in an RTS. an economy is how quickly and efficiently you can gain resources. more resources means more units/upgrades, and more units/upgrades means better chance at victory! economy is massively important!
2. that was exactly what i was thinking!
3. if not a temple, a Shaman's hut or something (put fire out in front or something to make it look mystical).
other buildings? i guess you can go with the basics:
War Hut
Lookout Post (defense tower)
Great Hall (Castle equivalent)
Trade Post (what i had discussed earlier, look back at my last post)
etc.
i just got this idea: you know how we all stress factional difference? well, this idea would make the Iroquois very different from your other factions. ok, make the Great Hall not build workers! the longhouses (which would be like houses) make workers, while the Great Hall stores resources and is also the main upgrade building (it'd make sense, the very big longhouses were for gatherings and stuff). you'd just need to give them a both a GH and a longhouse at the beginning of the game
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i just got this idea: you know how we all stress factional difference? well, this idea would make the Iroquois very different from your other factions. ok, make the Great Hall not build workers! the longhouses (which would be like houses) make workers, while the Great Hall stores resources and is also the main upgrade building (it'd make sense, the very big longhouses were for gatherings and stuff). you'd just need to give them a both a GH and a longhouse at the beginning of the game
Maybe, sounds like a good idea.
other buildings? i guess you can go with the basics:
War Hut
Lookout Post (defense tower)
Great Hall (Castle equivalent)
Trade Post (what i had discussed earlier, look back at my last post)
etc.
I don't need names, I need looks, buildings that the Iroquois used.
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you may want to browse around the AoE wiki for Iroquois architecture (i mean, the Iroquois were a faction in that game). here's an example: http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/War_Hut
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@zoythrus: I don't get how this AoE building should fit with indians. Please don't use anything like this.
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@zoythrus: I don't get how this AoE building should fit with indians. Please don't use anything like this.
im going off of a source that seems to have their facts straight. i didnt say that he should make that exact building, i just gave it because it represents the style.
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I think Wikipedia seems to be the most correct, and it's link has already been posted several times above. I think you need to retitle this thread to something more appropriate.
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Done.
OK, so I need a good defence unit, and should I keep the thunder bird or should I use a different air unit? If so what?
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well, the Tunderbird is a Plains Indian belief, not a Woodland idea. with the Iroquois, you have two options: 1. dont give them an air unit, or 2. maybe use something like a Sky Spirit or something....
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I am defiantly having an air unit, but what?
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i gave my suggestion
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a thunder storm cloud!
Made by the shamen. His production anim has a fire ....
update:
What about my suggestion with the extra totempole sending out forefather ghosts to attack people ?
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I am defiantly having an air unit, but what?
You know, you can very much not have an air unit (more realistic) and just balance the strength of the ground troops accordingly, just like Japanese does.
As for the concept of a thunderstorm cloud, how well would that work in MG, seeing MG doesn't support the random particle projectile type (required to make a half decent thunderbolt projectile, take a look at FPM's priestess for a lightning attack.
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easy ... if something simple is missing we add it :-D
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I don't know about a thunder cloud, kind of strange.
(http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy127/Elimiator/eruqua.jpg?t=1310865621)
This is what the long houses looking like so far, comments?
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Make their textures look more different. I know they are made of the same material, but I think it would look better and will help playing it.
About the clouds:
Weren't there old story that indians believed their shamens can influence the weather? So I think its not such a bad idea with a cloud.
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bump!
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This faction is almost done, just an air unit and a defence unit.
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Is there any finished version of this mod? And is it in a techtree so I can upload it to the mods section?
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Is there any finished version of this mod? And is it in a techtree so I can upload it to the mods section?
i'm interested in this too. I'd actually download MG if i could get this faction. Now, what about that "First Peoples Pack"? That still happening?
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first of all what is the "First Peoples Pack"?
And yes, I do plan on adding the download to the MG download centre.
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i thought we kinda discussed the idea of placing all of the Native American factions into a special faction pack. We never decided on a name for it, but that's the best one i saw.
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There is only my Iroquois, and Titi's Indians.
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There is only my Iroquois, and Titi's Indians.
what happened to the Aztecs?
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Well they are not really Indians. But I guess they could all be put in a pack.
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Well they are not really Indians. But I guess they could all be put in a pack.
I figure that if it's a "First Peoples Pack," then the Mesoamerican Aztecs would fit in perfectly....