MegaGlest Forum
Modding and game content creation => Mods => Topic started by: Mr War on 23 November 2011, 16:26:37
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Ming v0.1 download . Tech tree for MegaGlest http://www.mediafire.com/?9dwdqxh4310zama
Note: Tech-Tree is cloned from Japanese but with Japanese Faction removed. Optionally, Ming faction folder can be copied into the following compatible Tech-Trees:
Japanese - recommended. This faction is designed to complement Japanese Faction
Imperial 2
Magitech
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Wait so the steampunk version is merging with japaneese or you makeing a realistic faction? faction. Anyways if its going to be with japaneese mod then for consistency it should have similar names and japaneese mod used Japanese names, so I think chineese names would be better.
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just a new faction, building from Warlords but much more realistic units and improved so that it is in keeping with Japanese faction which makes an effort to be historically accurate. Warlords will still be there also.
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I'd prefer Chinese names in roman alphabet, it sounds more real than strange translations
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I already have a faction called China which I will be fixing eventually. So don't name yours China.
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I think that's the reason, why this topic is called "The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction" and not "New Chinese Faction" ;)
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I think that some things are better translated, but sometimes there isn't a direct translation, in which case it's better to leave it. Take the Japanese faction for example. There isn't really a good direct English word for "ashigura" (sp?), but there is one for peasant.
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Cool, on the balance of feedback I'll use Chinese names where ever possible. Some things like "castle" will still be castle
Also i've never played AoE 3 Asian dynasties but from my research they seem to have pretty much the sane units that I am planning.
I already have a faction called China which I will be fixing eventually. So don't name yours China.
I don't think I ever played that, what pack is it in? I'll check it out.
This faction is based on Ming Dynasty in china.
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ElimiNator' s Chinese Faction was not really based in a historic scheme (or at least I have not noticed any). I don't know in wich pack it is, but I think it was in the same then circus, but I'm not shure it's too long since last time I played it.
If you build it fitting to japanese (any keep the name: The Great Ming ) it would not be any real conflict with the old one.
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if your gonna make it like this, you should consider adding the Koreans with Turtle Ships, this would make for some very interesting fights, China vs Korea vs Japan :)
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Interesting idea. I don't think it'll have ships so turtle ship is out for the moment. Korean units are similar to Chinese ones even the rockets and cannon.
I'm lucky enough to have seen the turtleship replica in Seoul, it's quite interesting. Not sure if it's full size but it was much smaller than I imagined.
Chinese had really interesting warships, but mostly river based and earlier.
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Yah, my China faction is pretty bad, but I plan on fixing it soon.
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About the unit names, I prefer using names of original languages, but since you are not chinese, you don't have to stick to chinese names. Btw Chinese weapons names are sometimes very unique and cool(like 五雷神機:Five thunderous god's machine, 神火飛鴨: God's fire flying duck, 虎蹲炮:Lying tiger cannon). :O
if your gonna make it like this, you should consider adding the Koreans with Turtle Ships, this would make for some very interesting fights, China vs Korea vs Japan :)
NO KOREA.
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Why not?
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Well, throughout the almost history, Korea have been subjected to the China, nida.
It would be better include some korean units in Chinese faction rather treating korea as an independent faction, nida.
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Oh, I'm not sure if I got periods confused with what you two are currently doing but I know that in the 1590's the Japanese invaded Korea and after some protracted campaigning and bad naval defeats pulled out. It was mostly a korean defense at the time, though they got Chinese help later
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You are almost right.
From the beginning, Hideyoshi's ambitious was toward to a China(ming). but Korea(Joseon) rejected cooperate with japanese invasion, so battle deployed at Korean Peninsula.
First japanese army trained and increased through the sengoku period, with a lot of improved muskets drived out joseon and ming alliance army. but later more reinforcements of ming arrived, and lack of supply due to the defeat of japanese navy against korean navy with turtle ships led by Admiral Yi Sun-sin. and Hideyoshi's death. by these situations, japanese army retreated from korea.
Korean turtle ship is attractive indeed. but without support of naval units in megaglest, korean faction would be just a lesser Chinese faction.
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Yeah aside from turtle ships (not mg) there isn't much meat to Korean faction.
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What about other groups in that area, like maybe Viet Nam or the Philippines? I don't really know much about either -- just throwing some ideas. Also, is the time period of this faction meant to match up with Hagekura's Japan?
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What's so wrong with just two factions? The Japanese faction is so attentively done, it seems a bad fit to pump out a large number of inattentive factions for the sake of it?
Quality over quantity every time!
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Yes let's not rush to make factions, Ming is hardly started. I had hoped to just retexture warlords faction but the more I research the Ming the more I make work for myself.
Period of interest is 1400s to 1600s with emphasis towards the end - must at least be in gunpowder age. I chose Ming as closest fit.
Indonesia is an interesting idea with Majapahit empire although that was nowhere near as advanced and ended before they had gunpowder, but could have Portuguese and Muslim bits later on.
No idea about Philippines history but Vietnam was basically in and out of Chinese control and like Korea, would just be a "subfaction" of Chinese
(http://i41.tinypic.com/wvzs3m.jpg)
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/33ve13o.jpg)(http://i43.tinypic.com/29pxkwg.jpg) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The cotton armor cavalry looks Sooooo nice! other units as well. :thumbup:
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WOW ... want to play asap ;-) ...
it's realy nice
PS: I do know that it will need more time ;-)
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Well it's coming along. Still many less-realistic Warlords Faction units, but getting there.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/imjgo4.jpg)
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Nice buildings. :thumbup: I like the paddy looks.
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(http://i43.tinypic.com/j7yvy9.jpg)
Formations of Liang Xien (Wolf Spears), Ji Bing (Halberdiers), Da_Xia (swordsmen), Qi Bing (cavaliers), Qi Bing Shi Shou (cavalry archers) and Qi Zhi (banners).
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Beautiful formation! :)
I can recognize most of your units(some chinese words pronounces are somewhat close to japanese), but can you tell me what is the "Da_Xia" write in a chinese character? I can't recognize it.
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My pinyin mandarin is probably wrong, I got it by googling. It's Da Xia is 大侠. The correct Pinyin is dà xiá but MG doesn't cope with the accents. Source http://hktv.cc/cd/hanyupinyin/?q=swordsman
next to add some ranged units
(http://i39.tinypic.com/ip9xrn.jpg)
Current unit list. Hand-held fire arrows and crouching-tiger cannon removed.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2hdr240.jpg)
In general the correct balancing is for Ming to have weaker infantry, equal cavalry and superior artillery than Japanese I think. They get firearms quicker, but ultimately Japanese firearms are the same (both imported arquebus from Europe).
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Ah 大侠! the Hero. ;D thank you.
next to add some ranged units
(http://i39.tinypic.com/ip9xrn.jpg)
Great, 五雷神機! Very nice!
I feel sorry for you removed crouching-tiger cannon from your unit list.
It would be a good portable-light cannon. They used the cannon often battle against Wako pirates.
In general the correct balancing is for Ming to have weaker infantry, equal cavalry and superior artillery than Japanese I think. They get firearms quicker, but ultimately Japanese firearms are the same (both imported arquebus from Europe).
That'll do. :thumbup:
but Chinese also imported muskets from Ottoman turks. and Japanese also produced improved matchlock muskets soon after the arrival of european arquebus.
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Now for something silly,....
(http://i43.tinypic.com/29wu6hl.jpg)
So Da Xia is hero, not general shield/sword guy? Do you know what the correct pinyin would be?
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lol Reminds me a mass calisthenics of North Korea. The Liang Xien spear looks very cool.
hmn for Swordsman, maybe "剑客 jiànkè" ? I don't sure about chinese though.
I think Da xia is okay, unless you pointed out a mistake from chinese. :O
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With Chinese swords, be careful of the distinction between jian and dao. You'll often see dao translated as broadsword, scimitar, or sabre, and they are the curved, single-edged machete-like ones, whereas a jian is a straight, double-edged long sword.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dao_%28sword%29
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Thanks for the research man. Yeah I didn't know much about Chinese military history when I started this but I've been doing a lot of reading and asking history buffs.
The sword guys, well really shield guys with a sword, would have used dao and I modelled it based on that.
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What do you think about simply name him "Swordsman", as I did in the japanese swordsman. until you find suitable name of him.
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yeah maybe that's the answer. But would be a shame to have only one English unit description. Another unit I cannot find the pinyin for is a wagon laager.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/fxaxis.jpg)
AI-v-AI. Mostly Shi Shou (composite bowmen) on the left, and Huo Che (fire carts, basically MLRS) on the right. Corpses are following exchange of wolf spears.
Updated unit list
(http://i40.tinypic.com/dlj87q.jpg)
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Nice screenshot!
I also couldn't find a correct chinese name of the Laager. Maybe you should take account of name it simply war-wagon.
btw, Mainarm of the samurai in my mod is 大身の槍 (http://www.mundokatana.com/web/otras_armas/yari/yari.htm)(Oomiyari = Big Head Spear). Although this weapon is suitable for both slashing and piercing attacks, you should classify it as pole-arms.
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Found the pinyin for the swordsmen, it's Teng Pai Bing which means Rattan shield soldier - the shield being more important than the sword it seems.
Some recent screenshots - musketeers added (thanks Hagekura for the particles help!!!)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/4t0zn6.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/29c3skj.jpg)
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Good, Teng Pai Bing sounds cool. :thumbup:
Looks developing goes at a good rate. :) Looking forward to release.
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Looks great (the particles), but the HUD overlay, particularly the way it overlaps with the minimap, hurts my eyes. Somewhat offtopic, but is there a way to disable the custom HUD's on the user side?
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Thanks all for feedback. I'll try to share a beta in a day or two to complement Hagakura's latest Japanese faction. It won't have all the units or fine tuning.
Grand General Cannon and musketeers
(http://i40.tinypic.com/adzw9l.jpg)
Tech Tree. Units without icons are ones not in upcoming beta.
(http://oi42.tinypic.com/15mfokg.jpg)
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Thanks all for feedback. I'll try to share a beta in a day or two to complement Hagakura's latest Japanese faction. It won't have all the units or fine tuning.
Grand General Cannon and musketeers
(http://i40.tinypic.com/adzw9l.jpg)
Sweet! :thumbup:
Both cannon and musket looks great, looking forward to release, but please take your time. ;D
For now I see the techtree map, I think ming should have some kind of "Research Center" building, Like Daimyo Yashiki. Perhaps the building like "紫禁城(Zǐjinchéng,The Forbidden City)" would appropriate to the purpose.
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More buildings, upgrades and key units planned for future releases. This is likely to be only release for some time though. In particular, if anyone knows of more fitting music (wav, mp3 or ogg format, must be appropriately licensed for reuse)
About Ming Dynasty
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The Ming Dynasty ruled China from 1368 to 1644 (1662 in the South of China). They replaced the Mongols (after Genghis Khan's descendants, known as Yuan Dynasty) and were replaced by the Manchurians (Qing Dynasty).
Their military might went up and down with the quality of their emperors. At their best, they had a massive professional army (up to 1 million men!!!) who were well organized and well trained. During the weaker emperors the military decayed.
The army was divided into Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery. The infantry was most numerous but cavalry were generally equally important (again varied over time). But Artillery was the characteristic strength of the Ming.
Infantry divisions, at least in the early Ming, were highly structured in composition, with 100 men (later 112 but same proportions):
40 spearmen with spears, tridents, "wolf spears" or halberds.
30 archers = with compound bows and sometimes crossbows.
20 swordsmen with either round rattan shields or oblong plank ones, and saber - the shield seems more tactically important than the sword.
10 men operating firearms
In later years this varied, but all categories remained. Often soldiers appear to have carried bows or fire-arrows in addition to other weapons, and most had a saber. Southern troops often carried large two-handed "horse cutting" swords (Chang-dao and Miao-dao).
Cavalry were divided between lancers, armed with spears or moon-shaped halberds (similar to Guan-dao), and cavalry archers. Some troops carried both.
There are reports of monks being used, particularly from Shaolin temple. I suspect that some of this is exaggerated by shaolin fans but overall they were involved in some battles, armed with spears or staffs.
The artillery was the specialty. The main weapon was the fire cart, basically an multiple-rocket-launcher on a wheel-barrow base. These things were used in their thousands, and employed both defensively and to charge the enemy. They also used lots of small cannon, notably the "crouching tiger cannon" and larger "grand General Cannon", but still relatively small. Later they imported cannon from Europe, which is ironic as cannon were a Chinese invention. But by late Ming dynasty European ones were superior, largely because of metallurgy. Trebuchets would have been used by early Ming but gunpowder ruled by then.
Firearms were already common by start of Ming, have originated as a banger on the end of a spear, hence "fire spear" being used to describe guns. By Ming the main gun type was iron and mounted on a long shaft, often with three barrels for quick firing. It doubled as a mace. As with cannon, the idea had been exported to Europe and by late Ming the Europeans were technologically ahead, so Ming imported European Arqebusers and muskets.
Other key weapons include the battle wagon, which was deployed as mobile forts (laager in modern military terms). These were particularly vital in fighting the mongols/nomads in the north. I'm not sure what the historic connections are, but equipment and tactics are very similar to the Hussites in Europe around this time. In Korea, fighting the Japanese, they seemed to have relied on cavalry, although there were lots of infantry and artillery also. Also in the late Ming, like in Europe, they trained Infantry in use of horses, making them Dragoons.
Game balancing with Japanese Faction
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The faction is designed to complement the excellent Japanese faction. We may add other historical sides also. The current beta is not complete or fully balanced.
In general the Ming have weaker infantry, equal cavalry and better artillery. Winning tactics ought to be maximizing artillery, protecting them with infantry and cavalry archers. Weakness would be against massed Japanese melee units, particularly swordsmen and samurai. at least, that's my hope.
Currently Japanese faction lacks cavalry units, so Ming Cavalry are slightly degraded to avoid being too strong.
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Congrats for the release!
but Currently this faction isn't assigned AI-behavior correctly thus CPU can't play this faction well.
<resource-producer-units>
<unit name="nong_min" minimum="4"/>
</resource-producer-units>This code is wrong. You must set pig or paddy in here. Resource producer unit = food producing unit. not worker.
Make cpu build at least 3 barracks first.
Big problem is, most upgrades of the faction are conducted in the Castle. CPU can't develop the faction because while conducting upgrade, the faction can't produce workers. This is why I said make research building separately from castle.
Any way, well done! Looking forward for the more Improvements and Development!
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Good spot re AI
I'm not going to rush to rerelease. I am planning to add at least two more buildings, and then refine and redistribute the upgrades. New buildings will include a temple or monastey, and a merchants house or market gate.
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BETA-2 Download of FACTION folder (7zip) http://www.mediafire.com/?m4gribt816g68ye
Requires MG 3.6
Best played as Faction within Japanese Tech Tree but is also Magitech compatible
Added Buddhist Temple ("gucha") for upgrades (Shaolin Monks planned but not there yet - some Upgrades will move to other buildings in later iterations).
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Nice update! the temple looks really good! and now AI plays much better.
I like that "huo_qiang" has both ranged and melee attack skill.
When he runs out ammo(EP), He can quickly change to mace man. ;D I feel sorry for that AI can't switch their attack in melee.
It's really fun fighting with japanese faction. but of course, We need to have a lot more debates about balancing and etc. 8)
Anyway, this faction is still in beta, I expect more for complete version!
This faction has potential, so I hope you continue working on this faction hard.
keep up the good job! :thumbup:
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Ying Che (Eagle cart, like a Laager)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/r1lhes.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2ia4qbl.jpg)
The final version will have three guys with hand cannons, and will need to deploy from travel configuration to static defense. In function it'll be as per the Ming war wagon 'Laagers', but is lighter than the ox or horse drawn ones. Real ones would have had more troops, but for balancing reasons I'll keep to 3. The winged tiger was intended to scare horses, same as was painted on some shields etc.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/33jr577.jpg)(http://i43.tinypic.com/35jayqd.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/20at738.jpg)
3 guys and still only about 1200 triangles!!! :D
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<4000 pixels of pictures here>
Wow, very nice models and textures. Even better poly count. I'm curious how it looks to go from moving to attacking, though (too bad there's no way to make a "transition" animation).
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<4000 pixels of pictures here>
Wow, very nice models and textures. Even better poly count. I'm curious how it looks to go from moving to attacking, though (too bad there's no way to make a "transition" animation).
It probaly work like imperial's trebuchet morphing between a stationary attack mode and a mobile mode.
Cool model man!
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Yeah nice model. I love the painting on the shield.
It would be very tough to animate the three men at same time. good luck.
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yeah it's a real pain to animate but getting there. Still have cannon and Shaolin Monk to add.
The Eagle carts are roughly equivalent to the taketaba shields in Japanese faction but take 3 food slots and are not mobile once deployed. When deployed they are like a defense tower - you cannot order them to attack specific targets.
Eagle Carts pulled up to form Laager with Musketeers and fire carts (rocket on right-hand side).
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2s93tc8.jpg)
APPEAL FOR HELP: IF ANYONE HAS SUGGESTIONS FOR COOLER FACTION MUSIC PLEASE PROVIDE URL (WAV, MP3 or OGG Format, public domain or other similar free to use licence)
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Looks good.
(WAV, MD3 or OGG Format, public domain or other similar free to use licence)
Out of curiosity, how does one play MD3 as a sound file? :angel:
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Nice! How does the projectile of the wall looks like?
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(Remind me; if a human player selects to attack, using a ranged unit, one of your units behind the wall, will the wall still absorb the damage because its in line of fire?)
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No it won't.
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Nearly there. Ming's strength is its artillery, and to a lesser degree, the cavalry.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/14lsjcw.jpg)
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Will you make some Mods for the Qing, they are the Manchus, who conquered the Ming China in 1644.
The strength of the Manchu is the cavalry, it would be very interesting to see the Qing fighting against the Ming
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http://books.google.com/books?id=erlv2BM04zEC&pg=PA29&hl=zh-CN&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Good suggestion. Maybe a sub faction of sorts with just a few units different. Ming had same cavalry up to the war civil war with manchus. I think it was more than when Manchus rebelled the northern troops, who were most cavalry, where on Manchu side. In Korea the Ming used a lot of cavalry against the Japanese.
My mod has these types of cavalry, approximate 1530s, although my Ming horse archer actually looks like Qing
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Very good mod!!!
But the Manchu soldiers looks different from the Mings.
For the cavalry, the hats or the helmet of the Manchus looks totally different from the Ming style.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Manchuguard.jpg
And the cavalry of the Manchu should move and attack faster than the Ming cavalry, but the gunpowder weapons of the Manchu are not so good as the Ming.
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good source info, thanks. The Manchu's rose to power in a rebellion, previously their military had been part of the Ming's forces, so differences are more a factor of geography and progress of history. So I find it difficult to compare. Both Dynasties lasted hundreds of years during which their military varied greatly. The Qing armor I was referring to re the horse archer in my mod is like this http://www3.uakron.edu/worldciv/china/MVC-753S.JPG . Qing would generally have different hats than most of my Ming models, and long hair down their backs.
I am interested in the idea of a Qing faction, but need to be careful not to commit to too many projects. Mods take months even for me and I work fast and sloppy.
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You are right.
Oh, you know a lot of Chinese pinyin, are you a Chinese?
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I might be wrong but isn't breech loading too advanced for this time period, most weapons, if not all in the 1400-1600 period were muzzle loading.
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Wyvern, if there's anyone more armchair military historian than you here on the board, it might be Mr War! :)
I too am curious about breach loading cannon in this setting. Maybe you're onto something, Wyvern; maybe its artistic license.
I'll get some popcorn.
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I might be wrong but isn't breech loading too advanced for this time period, most weapons, if not all in the 1400-1600 period were muzzle loading.
Yea that was my impression also but I did a lot of research for this mod and learned that a lot of the early cannons used by late Ming were breech loading. But not like we imagine it. Instead they had a removable breech that looked like a coffee mug with the handle for quick handling. The rate if fire was very high because you could line up reloads like a row of coffee mugs before you start. But the separate breech means the cannon could not be as powerful. Think fast firing light cannon, mostly anti-infantry.
I cannot post pics as replying from phone, but google swivel guns or early breech loading cannon. You might even find the Ming illustration I based this cannon on.
Thanks for the question though
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I might be wrong but isn't breech loading too advanced for this time period, most weapons, if not all in the 1400-1600 period were muzzle loading.
This type of breech loading cannon was first introduced in ming by Portuguese colonists and traders (Chinese called them "Franks" in general) around the period 1506~1521, as well as manufacturing method of the cannon. and Chinese produced and used this breech loading cannons largely - also they used it in the battles against japanese in korea - until they replaced with more powerful Dutch cannons in 17th.
(http://w3.shinkigensha.co.jp/book_naiyo/images/4-88317-231-7p1.jpg)
Characteristic of this cannon is the barrel was consisted of two parts - main barrel and child barrel -.
Child barrel was filled with gunpowder and ammunition before loading it in main barrel, the child barrel works as cartridge. this mechanics made the cannon able to fire rapidly. but this mechanics was also had some drawbacks, if the size of child barrel and main barrel was not matched, the combustion gas will leaks from the gap and firing power will be decreased, or barrel could be exploded.
Because of this drawbacks, this cannon was not popular among in Europe, but it seems Chinese loved this mechanics.
Btw this type of frankish cannon was also introduced in Japan, and the Christian Daimyo in the "Bungo" province, "Otomo Sorin"（1530 - 1587) bought this cannon by Portuguese ship and used it in battle against his rival clan, Shimazu clan. but the cannon was not spread in japan.
The frankish cannon Otomo used is now preserved and displayed in the Yasukuni Shrine (http://www.yasukuni.or.jp/).
(http://www.geocities.jp/es62v/P1070525.JPG)
(http://www.geocities.jp/es62v/P1070529.JPG)
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sorry, when i heard breech loading, the first thing popping into my head was guns from the 1800's. I've seen pics of the type your showing but didn't know the chinese used them. I'll be honest, I haven't researched it though, I prefer warfare thats happened within the last 200 years. and yeah I found several pics on Google. keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to how this turns out
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Thanks Hagekura, great sources.
Ming v0.1 download . Tech tree for MegaGlest http://www.mediafire.com/?9dwdqxh4310zama
Note: Tech-Tree is cloned from Japanese but with Japanese Faction removed. Optionally, Ming faction folder can be copied into the following compatible Tech-Trees:
Japanese - recommended. This faction is designed to complement Japanese Faction
Imperial 2
Magitech
(http://i44.tinypic.com/3308w7a.jpg)
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Oh, you know a lot of Chinese pinyin, are you a Chinese?
No, I had to look it up on Google. :scared:
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wow~~~ :P
very nice mod!!!
Hope to see the Manchu faction
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Nice techtree! It's a little tough to play for me so far (but this will change ;) ), and the CPU creates loooads of units.
One minor issue:
[2012-01-21 02:14:33] *ERROR* In [/home/softcoder/Code/megaglest/trunk/source/shared_lib/sources/graphics/model.cpp::loadV3 Line: 373] Error v3 model is missing texture [/home/tomreyn/.megaglest/techs/ming_dynasty/factions/the_great_ming/units/wang_lou/models/texture_defense_tower.tga] meshHeader.properties = 2 meshIndex = 0
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Its available in MegaGlests internal mod menu now, so everyone can easily test and give feedback.
( Looks like good animations are hard to do. ;) )
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As a new Glest user I'm amazed at how good these Eastern mods are, and the amount of work that must have gone into them.
I've posted elsewhere about my problem with MegaGlest not saving games, and am very frustrated at spending hours setting up a fun and complex game only to have to switch off the PC and loose it all. So...
- Would it take a lot of work to 'downgrade' the Japanese and Ming mods so that they work in GAE? I realise that some cool things would be lost, but even if I could get them working in a reduced state (eg., as well as the basic mods which come with it) then I'd be happy.
- Is it possible to remove the guns and canons from both of these? I'd prefer to play with swords, bows and hand-to-hand, but obviously CPU players will bring out the guns.
My second point above is of course about game play style, and I'm sure there must be others who'd like to set up complex battles without firearms blasting everyone away.
I love the new details in the Ming mod, like reading Sun Tzu to increase warrior production, training the peasants in kung-fu, etc!
I don't want to wander far off-topic, but for me GAE's ability to have characters Guard each other is cool, and especially the ability to set an .ini flag to make them return to their original position after fighting off intruders. It's annoying in MG when they wander off into a fight and I end up having to look for them.
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Thanks man, much appreciated feedback.
Re GAE. Yes it could be ported across but would need to change a lot in XML, mostly removing multiple animations and particles. It's a fair amount of work and I aren't volunteering to do it, but if anyone wants to that's cool by me.
To stop your units wandering off every time they attack use the "hold" command - most units have this (it's moddable in the xml).
Re Guns. Gunpowder was pretty central to Chinese military, so hard to remove all gunpowder units. But removing musketeers would be easy. To do so....
1) copy the faction folder and rename it so that you now have a second (cloned) faction
2) rename the faction xml file in the new faction folder to match the folder's name.
3) In the units folder of the new faction, go to the buildings which build units you want to remove and in the building xml remove the command to build them.
4) if the unit being removed can be morphed into, go to the unit that morphs and remove the morph command
5) test it by playing.
I have no problem with people modding my mods, just be nice about it :D
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Re GAE. Yes it could be ported across but would need to change a lot in XML, mostly removing multiple animations and particles.
I thought you might mean that GAE doesn't do particles, but read on the wiki that it does. Does this mean that I'd just need to read up on modifying the particle XML to work on GAE? Also, what do you mean by "multiple animations"? Just a few hints will do, as I don't expect anyone to do non-essential work for me.
To stop your units wandering off every time they attack use the "hold" command - most units have this (it's moddable in the xml).
I'll look that up sometime – thanks.
Re Guns. Gunpowder was pretty central to Chinese military, so hard to remove all gunpowder units. But removing musketeers would be easy. To do so....
1) copy the faction folder and rename it so that you now have a second (cloned) faction
2) rename the faction xml file in the new faction folder to match the folder's name.
3) In the units folder of the new faction, go to the buildings which build units you want to remove and in the building xml remove the command to build them.
4) if the unit being removed can be morphed into, go to the unit that morphs and remove the morph command
5) test it by playing.
WSOD + CTD, haha. Work to be done...
I have no problem with people modding my mods, just be nice about it :D
I'll only be messing around with my own copy, but if one day I do share then I'll always ask first and give credit where it's due. Cheers.
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MegaGlest has a few more particle systems abilities than GAE (currently) does.
Engine feature comparison (https://docs.megaglest.org/Engines)
If you're interested in removing the MegaGlest only tags, you may wish to take a look at the wiki's XML documentation to see which tags are MegaGlest only (everything with a blue background). For the most part, many extra MegaGlest only stuff should NOT have to be removed, as GAE will simply ignore it. Not sure how GAE will react to multiple animations, though. Just remove all but one <animation path="..." /> tags from each skill tag (https://docs.megaglest.org/XML/Skills).
XML definitions on the wiki (https://docs.megaglest.org/XMLs#XML_definitions)
And if you do manage to get a properly functioning version in GAE, please, upload it for other members of the community to enjoy, while giving credit to Mr War (I do believe the mod is licensed as CC-BY-SA; meaning you can change and redistribute it as you wish, as long as you credit the author(s)).
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Thanks Omega, Mr War and Hagekura.
The Ming mod now works on GAE, and can be found *updated* at http://www.mediafire.com/?g6e1bd7bby8wviv. It contains the mod folders with just the XML files, single animations only, and some particle emission-rate values set to integers instead of floats (as in the Japanese faction (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=6103.msg79927#msg79927) I just altered for GAE).
Omega showed how to set up max-unit-count using XML for GAE (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7786.msg79941#msg79941), so the mod behaves similarly to the MG version but with single unit animations (mostly attacks).
On a side note; I haven't done anything with these mods except upload them to Mediafire and share links in these forums. Huge kudos to you guys for sharing them and spending so much time creating and updating them. Personally, I'm a big Eastern history buff, and have practised and taught various martial arts for over 20 years, so these really blow my skirt up.
I have to say, Mr War, that while I wouldn't like to praise yourself or Hagekura more one than the other, some little extras you've added are really very cool. Reading Sun Tzu (and other things) causing a brazier to light in the building is neat, and I like the changes to where the icons are (ie., some in different categories/buildings). I hope you won't mind me saying though that the spinning kick looks a bit more Michael Flatley than kung-fu. Crouching Dancer, Hidden Guinness..! :) (Edit: I realised it's because it repeatedly spins – one kick at a time would look cool, if it's possible).
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How to emulate max unit counts on GAE:
1. In the resources folder of the techtree, make a new folder titled "limit" (it really could be anything, but we must always call it the same name)
2. Create a blank text file named "limit.xml" and give it the following content:
<?xml version="1.0" standalone="no"?>
<resource>
<image path="../energy/images/energy.bmp" />
<type value="static" />
<display value="false" />
</resource>
3. In the faction XML (which should be named the same as the name of the faction, and be found inside the faction's folder), looking for the <starting-resources> node (should probably be the first one) and add a new line inside of that: <resource name="limit" amount="#" /> (replace "#" with the maximum number you want to be produced).
4. In the unit in particular, edit their unit XML (which should be in their name) and find the <resource-requirements> node. Inside this, add the new line: <resource name="limit" amount="1" />
5. This will have the result of requiring one of this "limit" resource (which you start off with a limited number and cannot produce more) for each of the unit you produce, and when the unit dies, the resource will be recovered, allowing the maximum to be maintained. The resource is hidden, meaning it won't appear at the top. If you need multiple limits in a faction, you could name the resources "limit1", "limit2", etc, though each would need their own resource.
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How to emulate max unit counts on GAE: ... This will have the result of requiring one of this "limit" resource (which you start off with a limited number and cannot produce more) for each of the unit you produce, and when the unit dies, the resource will be recovered, allowing the maximum to be maintained.
Superb, and thanks; it works well. The limit shows as 1 on the display (no big deal), and when the limit you've set is reached it displays something like, "No more limit available". I'll try modifying it to "No more Shinobi available", etc., and see if it works out.
Edit:
I've tested the Japanese and Ming Chinese factions, and have updated my 7zip XML file set. I've used Ki for Japanese Shinobi, and Chi for Chinese Shaolin, so the interface and messages look ok.
Should I bother uploading them to Mediafire again and renewing the links in my posts, or just assume that the people reading these posts will be able to do it themselves? (I don't know the capabilities of others yet, being new here).
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Should I bother uploading them to Mediafire again and renewing the links in my posts, or just assume that the people reading these posts will be able to do it themselves? (I don't know other yet, being new here).
Reupload, and add a link to the wiki page (https://docs.megaglest.org/Japanese), for others (you should include the models though, and delete the extra models no long used from the multiple animations). Laziness is easier :P.
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Reupload, and add a link to the wiki page (https://docs.megaglest.org/Japanese), for others (you should include the models though, and delete the extra models no long used from the multiple animations). Laziness is easier :P.
I've updated the post below, re-uploaded to Mediafire, and updated my previous post links. I don't want to mess with models just yet, and also think that the XML file set is simple to just copy over the relevant MG mod without messing around with anything else, so will be easy for GAE users. I might get clever later on, but not just now. ;)
I've also updated the Japanese wiki page (https://docs.megaglest.org/Japanese) (the History section seemed ok), but can't see a Ming Dynasty page (also, the Mods List page (https://docs.megaglest.org/Mods/List) seems incomplete).
A quick note for Mr War;
With headphones on I noticed that the "ni hao" voice clip is a bit loud and has some breath rasping on it. (I haven't checked much else out as I'm too busy just playing it). I've become too used to the Japanese mod, and yours plays a little differently. Just got hammered by one CPU player on 'normal' level! A great mod, and lots of fun.
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The page exists now.
https://docs.megaglest.org/Ming_(faction) (https://docs.megaglest.org/Ming_(faction))
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The page exists now.
Cheers. I've added a wiki update in the same way as for the Japanese mod.
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thanks man, much appreciated porting it to GAE. Sorry I've not been engaged, have been concentrating on Ludum Dare. I'd guessed it'd be more issues but I guess GAE just ignores some XML bits?
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I'd guessed it'd be more issues but I guess GAE just ignores some XML bits?
The way XML works in general is that the engine should only be parsing tags by name which it is set to do. This means all new MG only tags will get along fine: GAE would simply ignore it. The same applied to using a GAE mod in MegaGlest (so a unit with an emanation should work in MG, though there'd be no emanation). However, when existing tags use new parameters, that's when errors start flying. So in the case of particle emission rate, only the Git master supports float values, the last stable release and the beta do not, so would crash. Same with new commands: MegaGlest understands commands, but it doesn't know what a patrol command is.
Of course, even when mods for one engine run on another, they don't necessarily play the way they're supposed to. For example, GAE has no max-unit-count (though can use hidden resources to replicate the effect (though not MegaGlest compatible: the resource would work, but wouldn't be hidden).
Once GAE 0.4 is released, which fixes the crash due to floats in particle emission rates, most MegaGlest mods should work fine on GAE (I'm actually not sure how GAE will react to multiple animations, though it doesn't crash, as Shibboleth snuck in some MG animation code). Of course, unit count limitations won't work, attack boosts and multiple animations would be ignored, and some particles may not appear as intended, but it will work. However, GAE mods will only work on MegaGlest if no new commands are used (and possibly other things). You should be able to, for example, give units bump maps or an emanation and the mod would work on both engines.
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I GAE, has the problem of the AI not building dockyards been solved in the stable release yet?
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I GAE, has the problem of the AI not building dockyards been solved in the stable release yet?
There is no stable release, 0.4 is still in development.
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Hi Mr War,
Here's my two cents.
1) Regarding the text: In my opinion, the current Ming faction is overusing Ping Yin. I think it would be much better if you limit using Ping Yin on only well known phases/units, such as Shaolin etc.. and use English for the rest unless the phase is very awkward in English.
Firstly, Chinese is a written language, which is common for almost all regions. If the units text are in Chinese, it works perfectly, but the text is Ping Yin, which is a standardized pronounciation for the Mandarin diague, (not Cantanese or other dialogue, unlike the Chinese text which is common). Secondly, Ping Yin without the accents (whatever you called those) makes little sense. As a Chinese who knows Ping Yin, I found it very difficult to tell which units are what just by looking at the Ping Yin (without the accents). Thus, it would be better to limit the uses of Ping Yin, which is ambiguous.
2) Regarding the music: Please make sure the music you use is in public domain. I believe the current music is quite recent, so I am not sure whether it is in public domain or not. Also the music does not fit with the dynasty or the war, it is a music more suitable for romances story or such, not wars. Perhaps, you can try something like 東方紅 or 黃河頌 (not sure if they are public domain, but at least they are more for suitable for warring periods)
3) Regarding the units voices: It is very odd for peasants and soldiers to say "thanks you" and "bye" all the times... It makes them looks feebles, and I am pretty sure no soliders would say that to their commander in real life.
Here's some links to battle scenes for Ming solider's. They may not be historical accurate, but they are good references:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3hsuy2_bDA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXBwaeeTwJo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T36MqgT3HBw
not too sure if this is Ming Dynasty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxzWRYtBBWA
yeah maybe that's the answer. But would be a shame to have only one English unit description. Another unit I cannot find the pinyin for is a wagon laager.
Updated unit list
(http://i40.tinypic.com/dlj87q.jpg)
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Hi SnEptUne, thanks for your help
re Pin Yin.
As you will have guessed I do not speak any form of Chinese. When I started the mod in December I asked in this thread whether people would prefer Chinese (pin yin) names or English unit names. The first post of this thread, where i asked, has since been changed to give download link etc, but if you look at the first page you can see the conversation. It turns out that the Glest engine cannot accept the accented letters so I had to drop the accents.
Changing all the names now would be very time consuming and tedious. I'm working on other projects so I am not volunteering to do that I'm afraid. I understand your point though, but hopefully you can still enjoy playing the mod.
re Music.
Finding suitable public domain music was very hard, for me at least. I have since found a possible alternative and would appreciate your opinion: "Asian Drums" on this page. http://incompetech.com/m/c/royalty-free/index.html?keywords=asian+drums&Search=Search
It's not historic or accurate but it is closer to what I imagined and it's free. Music choices are subjective but I'm up for changing it if a more suitable piece is available.
re unit voices.
What we have is literally the only public domain sound effects I could find, and I fully acknowledge that they are pretty poor. If you have links to better free ones, or would like to record your own sound effects for inclusion, please don't hesitate.
re the videos.
Good watching, thanks. I'm no expert on Ming military but I did do quite a bit of research and asking around. Is the first video speaking part in Japanese and part in Chinese? That confused me.
Re the first three videos. Looks a cool movie. In general it felt like Ming as I imagine them from my readings. But in detail the armor looked too much like song dynasty I think, and one bit even looked like Qing cotton armor. At one point when some guys are lined up to be beheaded, the swords look more Qing, but not certain. And in another scene the sword looks like a civilian broadsword which I don't think was representative of Ming soldiers. BUT, this is an amateur opinion and any correction is welcome to help me learn.
One challenge with representing Ming is that the dynasty lasted hundreds of years so there is no one "typical" Ming soldiers armor etc. Also, I knowingly used Qing armor in some models for visual effect and some units, especially the ji bing (halberdier) are not particularly realistic at all. Overall I think it's a reasonably realistic faction within the engine limitations and gameplay considerations, at least I hope so.
Re the last video. Based on attire, looks like it represents the later Qing (Manchu) dynasty.
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Thanks for the quick reply Mr War.
Regarding the Ping Yin, you can add 1234 to subsitute the accents, but it would be nice if it can be reworded in English. I can help with updating the XML. Here's the text that illustrate the problem of using only pronounciation (Mandarin).
「石室詩史」施氏，嗜獅，誓食十獅，氏時時適市視獅。十時，適十獅適市；是時，適施氏適市。氏視是十獅，恃矢勢，使是十獅逝世，氏拾是十獅屍，適氏石室。石室濕，氏拭室。氏始試食十獅屍，食時，始識是十獅屍實十石獅。試釋是事。
The whole story is compose of just one pronounciation, "Shi". If it is read out loud, no one will understand what it means.
I will see what I can find regarding the unit voices and music.
The videos are interesting, but they may not be accurate. The problem is that it is hard to find how soldiers speaks in books. I will let you know when I find something for the unit voices.
[EDIT]
Sorry, I have gotten sick during my vacation. Now that vacation is over, I got sick again. I will reply when I had recovered enough to work on this.
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