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Modding and game content creation => Mods => Topic started by: Mr War on 3 April 2012, 13:32:24

Title: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: Mr War on 3 April 2012, 13:32:24


7zip of Tech Tree folder for MG. http://www.sendspace.com/file/fvrxdv

2 factions:
Atlantis Project
Kingdom of Neptune

Also, latest working copy of Dark Ocean tile set http://www.sendspace.com/file/fxv1ug

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Inspired by eliminator's excellent underwater tile set, I've started work on a tech tree for underwater factions. The structure of resources and pace of play is also influenced by ishmarus annex although units generally move slower in water.

Units are more or less divided into shallow and deep. In glest XML shallow = air and deep= land. There is no reason why a faction won't gave more shallow units than deep units although there is no hard rule.

I have several factions ideas planned :-D

Before I share the first alphas, I'd like to canvas the community for ideas and gauge interest. So what clever and cool ideas does everyone have for underwater megaglest? Happy to take advice and requests if they fit with the themes
Title: Re: Underwater/ ocean worlds tech tree
Post by: MightyMic on 3 April 2012, 14:40:00
After I finish my Lego tech tree, I plan on making an underwater Lego faction. Or maybe just a scenario, but I'm not quite there yet :P

I think an under water water tech tree would be awesome (as well as the scenario Elim is creating) but it would be weird playing it on a different tileset like spring or something like that, so... I still think we should be able to limit the tilesets somehow per tech tree (see Limit Tilesets per Pack (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=8176.0)) and this is a perfect example of why we should be able to do that

Sounds awesome Mr War! can't wait for the first release :D
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Mr War on 4 April 2012, 14:55:11
Haha, Lego underwater sounds cool. Probably doesn't fit with the tech tree I'm building but cool in it's own way. Love the Lego mod idea btw.

Well so far the flood of suggestions for units, tile set tricks, themes and factions has been overwhelming.

I will share the alpha in a few days or weeks though.
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: ElimiNator on 4 April 2012, 15:55:25
Screens you showed me look great, can't wait.
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Ishmaru on 4 April 2012, 19:29:55
Well a monsters of the deep faction would be cool, giant squid + angler fish combo (a 4x4 or 5x5 sized unit) trilobites as workers.

 A mermaid/merman/ civilization of the deep would be cool too.  More magical based weapons.

Being underwater also grants a unique oppurtunity: 3D bases. Certain structures can be built in deep or shallow waters and may even change their purpose depending on which field they are built. Ex: deep turrets attack deep units shallow turrets can attack shallow units. Same goes with a barracks.
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Omega on 4 April 2012, 21:38:20
Quote from: Ishmaru on  4 April 2012, 19:29:55
Being underwater also grants a unique oppurtunity: 3D bases. Certain structures can be built in deep or shallow waters and may even change their purpose depending on which field they are built. Ex: deep turrets attack deep units shallow turrets can attack shallow units. Same goes with a barracks.
I think it would be pretty confusing, though, having such a large number of units in different fields. At least with regular air units, it's usually very obvious they're in the air.
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Mr War on 5 April 2012, 06:48:49
Sea monsters, excellent. Maybe as a Neptune, king-god of the sea faction. Neptune thinks that all the treasure of the sea belongs to him, so he throws vicious sea monsters at any faction that tries to take it? Sharks, giant squid, electric eels...

I just added an angler fish lamp to my midget sub for the base faction :-)

The floating buildings is interesting. I'll see how workers work in "air" (shallow) mode. That line of thought will take longer to explore, do not in base faction, but definately would be cool.

Omega hits on one general challenge with underwater faction design. In glest engine it's not always obvious whether a unit is in air or land... Shallow or deep.
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: wciow on 5 April 2012, 11:43:56
Hey Mr War, if you need any extra models check my unused models pack in the contributions thread. Its got starfish, jellyfish, shipwreck, giant squid, and a few others :)
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: MightyMic on 5 April 2012, 12:01:55
Quote from: wciow on  5 April 2012, 11:43:56
Hey Mr War, if you need any extra models check my unused models pack in the contributions thread. Its got starfish, jellyfish, shipwreck, giant squid, and a few others :)
Link's dead  :-\

The shallow vs deep sounds cool, but when you think about how it would be played in the game you start to think it might not be such a good idea :( too bad, because it sounded really cool. You can test it out and see how confusing it is/isn't and decide where to go from there...
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: John.d.h on 5 April 2012, 15:40:28
Here's an underwater concept I mapped out a long time ago, but never got around to making (except maybe one or two models): https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=5092.msg40210#msg40210 (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=5092.msg40210#msg40210)

I envisioned the "sea folk" to be something along the lines of Sahuagin (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sahuagin) or Locathah (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Locathah).
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: tomreyn on 5 April 2012, 18:31:29
I'd love to see nicely done seahorses, probably as a meelee unit which either sligs its tail around a victim, or hits it with this (lightly) armored tail.
A main building could be a coral reef.
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Mr War on 5 April 2012, 22:57:47
so many ideas. Vicious sea horses though, aren't they little harmless animals?

First[big] Alpha[/big] of "Atlantis Project" faction. about 1 week to build. The Atlantis Project is a deep sea exploration and salvage corporation, focused on finding (and looting) the lost city of Atlantis. Relatively modern, conventional and well balanced, their quest for gold will bring them into conflict with sea monsters and fiendish foes they can not yet even imagine!!!

When testing, please download both the tech tree and the tile set, as it really won't work visually without an underwater tile set. This tile set is not as good as Eliminator's "Underwater" one so if you have that....
Tech Tree folder (7zip): http://www.sendspace.com/file/a51ple
"Dark Ocean" underwater tile set (7zip): http://www.sendspace.com/file/7l41tv

Units:
Utility Sub = worker
Base Sub = main base
Aquadome = barracks, can produce both deep (seabed) units, and shallow units
Sub Pen = factory. Builds both deep and shallow subs
oxygen pump = produces oxygen

Frogman = basic infantry, shallow zone. Can engage both shallow and deep targets with basic harpoon
Deepsea diver = seabed infantry. Slow, can only engage deep targets. Can repair buildings and deep subs
Chariot = more mobile deep diver. Better harpoon gun
Hunter-Killer = advanced midget submarine capable of engaging both deep and shallow units. Particularly good against structures.
Sea-devil = deep sub capable of engaging both deep and shallow units at decent range with powerful squall rocket-torpedoes
Manta-sub = deep sub good for attacking buildings

To-Do:
base defenses
more capable frogman
upgrades and dependencies
tech lab type building for research

Feedback very much appreciated. How does it play?
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: MightyMic on 6 April 2012, 02:55:09
Ha ha :O wasn't really expecting it to play like Annex :thumbup:

The models are AWESOME! and the tileset is great (though a few more/different models wouldn't hurt).
The resources at the top... they're all the same picture (I'm sure you know that, but it was a little confusing)
All the attacks seemed a little bit too slow or maybe too weak (it just seemed to take forever to take down the enemy's base)

But I love the tech tree! I can't wait for the next release...  ;)

You mod a lot faster than I do ::)
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: John.d.h on 6 April 2012, 03:11:18
Quote from: MightyMic on  6 April 2012, 02:55:09
You mod a lot faster than I do ::)
He mods ridiculously fast.  I have no idea how he does it.

Hey Mr. War, what's your secret? :P
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Ishmaru on 6 April 2012, 04:40:27
Pretty awesome, great underwater feel with art + music. Love the steam punk feel of the units + hud, though I agree that there needs some flora+fauna added to the tileset.

Quote from: MightyMic on  6 April 2012, 02:55:09
Ha ha :O wasn't really expecting it to play like Annex :thumbup:
Did i start a new "genre" of Glest mod? :P jk

Quote from: MightyMic on  6 April 2012, 02:55:09
You mod a lot faster than I do ::)

Mr War's Glest Portfolio

Imperial Faction GAE (including a new navy for Tech Faction)
Sci Fi Pack (3 factions)
Cold War Pack (3 Factions)
Imperial 2 Pack (2 Factions)
Great Ming Faction
Ludum Dare Game
Astral Marines
Underwater MG

Hard to believe Mr War started Imperial mod a few months after I started Annex  ;)
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Mr War on 6 April 2012, 14:31:14
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Yes the tile set needs work. Eliminator's tile set is better done, so hopefully people can play it with that also - I made this tile set try to be different from his.

Ishmaru, re you 3D building idea. Found that 'buildings' don't really work in air zone, but workers can. Too late for my utility subs which are styled on deep sea midget subs, so made the 'harvester' unit a shallow sub that salvages treasure by dropping long cables down with bucket-claws etc. I was actually trying to make it more a mobile base where utility subs can take treasure but that didn't work.

Inspired by this type of thing
(click to show/hide)

Wciow, please re-link your models, would love to use some if they are suitable. :-)
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: ElimiNator on 6 April 2012, 15:22:20
Download for my under water tile-set is here (http://www.soft-haus.com/jacob/blog/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=57).
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Mr War on 6 April 2012, 16:38:13
thanks man, that tile set is excellent!

[big]Alpha2[/big]: Iteratively improved Atlantis Project faction. only worth downloading if you are a) loving this mod, or b) haven't yet downloaded the original alpha. Many small improvements, including:
* new 'harvester' type salvage unit added
* utility subs are a bit stronger, takes more than two harpoons to kill
* Frogman, Deep sea diver and Chariot are a bit stronger
* Defense structures added
* improved animations for sub-pen

DOWNLOAD: http://www.sendspace.com/file/2b5ah4

I think the next faction will be a sea monster faction representing Neptune. Neptune believes that he is the only king of the oceans, and that anyone who tries to salvage the treasure is stealing. So he turns the natural weapons at his disposal, a variety of sea monsters, on the intruders!

worker = turtle or cuttlefish
Shoals of fish for food
Various sharks - tiger sharks, hammerhead sharks and maybe a great white shark
Giant squid (shallow, size 3 or 4!!), giant octopus (deep, size 2 for pathfinding)
conga eels and shoals of barracudas as defenses

Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: ElimiNator on 6 April 2012, 23:40:36
I made a bunch of fish and a shark. If you I coul PM them to you.
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Ishmaru on 7 April 2012, 04:43:50
Tried second alpha, I like new subs :)

My biggest issue is that the economy is very slow in this game for its speed. Units produce in a couple seconds, however it takes a long time to get the resources to build subs. Also buildings take a long time to be destroyed as well, especially the main sub which can make base attacks really dragged out.
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Mr War on 7 April 2012, 09:36:13
pm in your mail box eliminator :-)

Thanks ishmaru, I definateky need to step back and thing about basic resource-build-strength balance. Will try to fond time to map it out in a spreadsheet etc. But agree with your observations. Structures surviving so long is def a prob.

Quote from: Ishmaru on  6 April 2012, 04:40:27

Mr War's Glest Portfolio

Imperial Faction GAE (including a new navy for Tech Faction)
Sci Fi Pack (3 factions)
Cold War Pack (3 Factions)
Imperial 2 Pack (2 Factions)
Great Ming Faction
Ludum Dare Game
Astral Marines
Underwater MG

Hard to believe Mr War started Imperial mod a few months after I started Annex  ;)
Yes, more mods than downloads :-/
The downside of being a spam-Modder is that I've left a trail of unfinished bits. I was really intending to revive the sci-fi pack to take advantage of latest MG features, and generally improve gameplay. But then I saw an underwater tile set, and.... spam spam spam

Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: wyvern on 7 April 2012, 15:38:49
And the cold war pack could take some improving :)
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Mr War on 7 April 2012, 22:25:56
need more sea monsters, so looking forward to Wciow's and Eliminator's models :-D

First view of "kingdom of the Ocean" faction.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: MightyMic on 8 April 2012, 02:38:26
COOL!

You should make the statue a little tilted and sunk in one corner into the sand. Also maybe a broken pillar...? Looks great by the way. The shark is awesome :D
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: wciow on 9 April 2012, 13:35:14
Sorry been away for a few days. Heres a link to my underwater stuff: http://www.sendspace.com/file/6j1bkp
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Mr War on 9 April 2012, 21:44:29
thanks Wciow. The giant squid is great. I'll work out which of the others to include too - the crab can be a deep-sea diver equivalent, able to repair things, and better armored than the hammerhead shark.

MightyMic, good idea, agree entirely. I was going to have most of Neptune's structures be shipwrecks, but it might be best if it's more of an ancient ruins feel. The Dark Ocean tile set will also get its own ancient ruins and pots.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: wyvern on 9 April 2012, 23:23:15
you could have an ancient shattered trireme as a building, or even as a unit called a ghost ship
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: MightyMic on 10 April 2012, 02:22:25
When I read Wyvern's post, I immediately thought "Davy Jones Locker" Though it would probably be better to have that as a separate faction...

Factions (IN PROGRESS):
  1) Atlantis (A more modern, treasure hunter based faction)
  2) Kingdom of the Ocean (A Greek/Roman [Poseidon/Neptune] god based faction with mostly sea animals)

Factions (IDEAS):
  3) Lego Underwater (An underwater Lego faction based mostly on building bigger and better)
  4) Spirits of the sea (A ghost based faction having the idea of Davy Jones Locker)

Sorry Mr War, but I don't really like the name Kingdom of the Ocean :-\  It doesn't really have any pizazz and I like shorter names... though I don't really have any better names to suggest...

Feel free to add/subtract from anything I said, and if I got anything wrong please correct it.
Title: Re: Undersea MG
Post by: Mr War on 11 April 2012, 06:15:56
Yes pirate ghosts is a theme we could leverage. Not sure I can think of a whole faction from it though.

Current and imminently planned factions:
Atlantis project
Kingdom of Neptune
Tbc megavillian - will have an underwater lair, mixing Jules Verne /steampunk with villian themes from the incredibles, james bond, Austin powers etc
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack) ALPHA-2
Post by: Mr War on 13 April 2012, 21:40:07
7zip of Tech Tree folder for MG. http://www.sendspace.com/file/fvrxdv

2 factions:
Atlantis Project
Kingdom of Neptune

Also, latest working copy of Dark Ocean tile set http://www.sendspace.com/file/fxv1ug

The lack of team color on Neptune units is deliberate because they represent nature. But it does make them hard to see sometimes.

Kingdom of Neptune includes models by other people:
Eliminator: Food fish, Stingray
Wciow: Monster crab, Giant squid

Neither faction is finished and balancing hasn't really started - so feedback on gameplay and ideas welcome :-)

Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: MightyMic on 14 April 2012, 02:11:12
Great work guys ;D

I like the models, they're all awesome! The giant squid is cool, but the animation needs editing (it's suddenly facing the other direction when it stops :confused:) and it's really a lot stronger than all the other persons (I decimated the CPU with four Giant Squid).

The buildings are pretty cool too, maybe some defensive structures in the next release? You could have a clam with a pearl spit magic stuff at the enemy for the Kingdom of Neptune... or maybe some sort of seaweed? And for the Atlantis Project you could have those bombs that float in the water like on Finding Nemo :D (I think they're technically called Naval Mines, but since this is Atlantis you could call it something else)
(click to show/hide)

This is going to be an awesome techtree once it's finished :thumbup:
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: ElimiNator on 14 April 2012, 03:42:19
Quote from: MightyMic on 14 April 2012, 02:11:12
(http://ak8.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/463528/preview/stock-footage-sea-mine-in-the-sea-water.jpg)

I already made a model/unit of this, It explodes, Mr War can use it if he wants.
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: Mr War on 14 April 2012, 06:17:07
The re is  a mine launcher unit in Atlantis project. It launches mines rather than actually being one because units self-destructing doesn't work in MG.

The squid is a complex animal to animate. When it moves it swims with the tentacles at the back, but when attacking (charging) it has them at the front with the feeding tentacles (the longer two) inside the others like a coiled spring. Glest doesn't allow transition animations so inevitable it looks jumpy between command animations. I think I'd rather it swim right than sacrifice realism for smoother animation transitions.
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: MightyMic on 14 April 2012, 17:30:04
I wasn't thinking of making it actually explode... though that would be cool :P
I was thinking a more typical defense structure and having it shoot out little particles of death
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: uncle on 14 April 2012, 19:40:47
I tried the mod and here are some of my thoughts:

-the sound of Frogman's gun is too loud
-I do not get the purpose of Stingray
-I also do not understand why I have to have -35 food in order to build a Throne
-Tiger Shark has human voice

Otherwise it seems like a good job ;)
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: MightyMic on 14 April 2012, 20:13:05
Quote from: uncle on 14 April 2012, 19:40:47
-I also do not understand why I have to have -35 food in order to build a Throne
I think that just means that it supplies you with 35 food... like a cow having -10 food requirement
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: uncle on 14 April 2012, 20:28:37
I also noticed that when I want to build Midget Sub, it builds Sea Devil instead.
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: uncle on 14 April 2012, 20:31:12
Quote from: MightyMic on 14 April 2012, 20:13:05

I think that just means that it supplies you with 35 food... like a cow having -10 food requirement

Well, I just cannot build another throne anyway. :)
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: tomreyn on 14 April 2012, 22:13:42
This mod is a very nice idea, and it really looks great with the recommended -and awesome- tileset and the custom HUD, especially when you move the camera to a lower angle.

Some comments:
These are just first impressions after playing each faction once, so don't take it too serious. Good job everyone!
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: ElimiNator on 15 April 2012, 04:58:23
Please have all downloads on first post.  :)
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: titi_son on 16 April 2012, 19:40:10
 :confused: its very difficult to play this mod  ;)
great job
i like the idea of having much only-air-units and only-ground-units but as tomreyn said the giant squid is too hard i think.
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: Mr War on 17 April 2012, 17:29:49
Thanks for all the feedback. Some rough edges are just cos it's an alpha, but lots for me to consider.

Work on this pack will slow as ludum dare is fast approaching, but will puck up again soon thereafter
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: tomreyn on 16 May 2012, 22:06:45
Here's two images so people can better tell how nice and different this looks:

(http://pepper.freeit.org/glest/screens/megaglest_deep_packet_inspection.jpg)

(http://pepper.freeit.org/glest/screens/megaglest_deep_packet_inspection2.jpg)
Title: Re: Undersea MG (Aqua-Pack)
Post by: Manric on 28 June 2012, 07:57:35
The best in this pack is the original idea. The illusion of the deep is very real, even with a normal land tileset. And having an ocean-life faction opposed to a human one gives the game a lot of spice.
To improve? Some good ideas have been suggested in earlier posts.
Somebody has mentioned the unbalance: the Atlantis faction seems much stronger than the Neptune, in spite of the prowess of the great squid.
This lack of balance happens, I think, because of the ranged weapons of the Atlantis. When you analyse the Glest battles it is easy to see that close combat units are often cannon-fodder, useful and necessary, but ultimately ending up all killed, while the side with the strongest long range warriors wins the day.
The poor fish have nothing to offer in this aspect, and it seems difficult to provide them with any range weapon. A solution might be something you suggest in a previous post: a cute electric eel added to the bunch. Such a beast could throw killing discharges from a distance, thus bringing some more balance to the fights.
In fact I have been trying some simulations with such a unit, and it makes a big difference to the faction. So much so, that I had to limit their power by making the electric discharges depend on ep. By playing with this value (as well as the max-unit) a good balance can be achieved.
Another source of discomfort to earlier commentators is the buildings lack of balance. They certainly are too strong, it takes forever to pull them down. A quick perusal of the values in megapack shows the average ratio of building HP v. warrior attack strength to be about 25/1. In your pack this goes up to 150/1.