Your guy's arn't the only ones.
Not to mention the annoying UI that sometimes feel's like it's working against you.
Your guy's arn't the only ones.
Not to mention the annoying UI that sometimes feel's like it's working against you.
To be fair every UI feels like that. Hell even real life feels like that when you know what you want to do but you can't execute.
I think the biggest issue is that the MG devs are probably not going to recognize this as an issue and nothing will be done. :(
How about my idea of renaming, restructuring, and remodeltexanimating Megapack into a simple storyline?This doesn’t sound to radical, but first the re-structured tech-trees and storyline need to be planed.
Kingdom of the South(Tech)
Society of Magic
Eastern Republic(Roman Influence)
Imperial Northern [EPIC NAME] (Norse Influence)
Native Rebels(Indians)
Empire of the Desert(Egypt/Persia Influence)
Personally I think you should create a megapack with more fantasy elements and not less. 0 A.D. is far and away superior in terms of historical factions and if MegaGlest attempts to compete there they will lose.0 A.D is rather bad, I have seen it. The models and techtrees may be good but that is about how far it goes. Game is choppy on good machines and mutiplayer is not good.
Personally I think you should create a megapack with more fantasy elements and not less. 0 A.D. is far and away superior in terms of historical factions and if MegaGlest attempts to compete there they will lose.0 A.D is rather bad, I have seen it. The models and techtrees may be good but that is about how far it goes. Game is choppy on good machines and mutiplayer is not good.
I have never played it actually, I saw the dev version on my dads comp.Personally I think you should create a megapack with more fantasy elements and not less. 0 A.D. is far and away superior in terms of historical factions and if MegaGlest attempts to compete there they will lose.0 A.D is rather bad, I have seen it. The models and techtrees may be good but that is about how far it goes. Game is choppy on good machines and mutiplayer is not good.
When was the last time you played 0AD? My 4 year old lap top plays at least single player fine with up to 100 or 200 units on each side on larger maps with up to 4 sides active. So like 800 units.
Based on recent posts by the people who do multiplayer its doing fine there too. Further more Ykkrosh is spending considerable time optimizing the pathfinding to improve performance. And the graphics are massively superior to any Glest derivative as well as having a far more customizable system with prop points and I do believe with functioning turrets and what not. They also did a fabulous improvement in their water system among other graphical advances and they have just completed a new sound manager.
I like it Zoythrus! But the Romans should be defense and strength just very expensive. Indians should gather resources fast, but be cheap, weak and numerous.
Particle effects don't bother me much..
I hope you've been studying your Faction Calculus (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FactionCalculus).Trust me, I'm an avid studier of Faction Calculus, but truth be told, this is hard with the factions and resources present. I'm trying to keep their overall feels, but yet keep them all different (which is a very difficult task given MG's relatively limited modability).
P.S. as I remember more names I add these to my list:
MightMic
MrWar
I see this thread has once again become a trolling ground for people insisting on things before showing commitment. This was what I specifically said would lead to your own failure to convince dev's to do much for you. Asking Honda to paint the car red when you haven't committed to buying the car... nope.
I think having this kind of discussions is fine... sometimes.Well, I'd think we'd be best off planning things out carefully before we do any modding. After all, if it's going to be a community effort, it will become a mess VERY quickly if we don't have a strong plan from the start.
At least it could serve to stimulate a community some. It seems community activity recently (especially modding section) is very dead. So even a discussion about less possible plan is better than nothing. hmn... How should I put it? well, Even a dead tree brings prosperity to the mountain.
Certainly, An unified view of the world will bring strong enchantment to the techtree.I think having this kind of discussions is fine... sometimes.Well, I'd think we'd be best off planning things out carefully before we do any modding. After all, if it's going to be a community effort, it will become a mess VERY quickly if we don't have a strong plan from the start.
At least it could serve to stimulate a community some. It seems community activity recently (especially modding section) is very dead. So even a discussion about less possible plan is better than nothing. hmn... How should I put it? well, Even a dead tree brings prosperity to the mountain.
As well, personally, part of the problem I see with the MegaPack is that all the factions are just random. We got a bunch of steampunk medieval guys, some mages with demons and dragons, a real-life based Egyptian faction, an Indian faction stereotypic right down to its name, a bunch of viking guys mixed up with random norse mythology figures, and a bunch of persians with flying carpets and the cast of Arabian Nights. Diversity is fine, but what's linking these all together?
And some of the factions, such as Indian and Norsemen, have a very large number of units that are merely retextured magitech units. If a mod tries that today, it'll get lumped in a pile of a dozen other retextures.
I love the story ideas Omega, some of the names are a little weird but those are simple to change as you stated.The names are all grabbed from random name generators. Presumably whatever we go with, the names of factions are the easiest to change and we'd have months to come up with a finished name.
The reason I prefer skype is it's a fast network that tons of people already have, irc channels don't support voice chatting do they?I'm really not a fan of voice though. Myself, I have a hearing loss that makes it impossible to understand people over voice chat, not to mention the Glest community is really diverse. In addition to timezone difficulties, we have a diverse set of accents and the like. Not to mention multiple people talking at once is a royal pain.
@Omega Animation: I can teach you. Perhaps I'll make a tutorial...Do ittttt.
I actually think that Indians and Norsemen are among the better of the factions.. But in my opinion almost all Megapack content will need to be either enhanced or remade, especially the animations.Well, they're a bit less random, maybe, but they have lower quality media, in my opinion. Lots of magitech retextured models, stiff animations on the unique models, low quality artwork (particularly icons), etc. It was good for its time, but its time was long ago.
A seriously organized, well balanced and and complex techtree for Glest is a great idea. But what about mods? Also these need a serious reorganization:
- too many single factions, which could be grouped;
- too many small techtrees, which could be combined into more complex ones;
- some unfinished factions, whose models could be included in other ones;
and so on. The basic idea could be: what if Glest world would be divided into "continents"? Or "planets"? Each one represented by a techtree?
I'm only gonna pitch in if we restructure the factions into new factions like omega and I suggested/elaborated on.
a simple art upgrade isn't gonna do it, and isn't going to encourage me to work on it.
It's great what this thread is starting to evolve into, something creative and positive. I really appreciate to see this (after the somewhat negative beginning).
If interested, I'll be happy to help testing and packaging new mods which will come out of this.
Keep going, this can grow into something big!
maybe if it gets better than original megapack one day, it will replace it or it will be part of MG too.The entire point of this project is to be better than the megapack and replace it. :P
Glad to hear it Titi!The entire point of this project is to make MG actually fun. We want to see Glest rise again to its former glory.Quote from: Titimaybe if it gets better than original megapack one day, it will replace it or it will be part of MG too.The entire point of this project is to be better than the megapack and replace it. :P
This work is extremely great wonder, I wanted to give you a hint, but is only a hint, you could follow more faithfully the basis of historical faction?, Such as the faction "Japanese", but how to do this with "units air "?Do you really expect a historical techtree when the factions contain giant death robots powered by steam, dragons, and flying carpets? I do agree, though, that there needs to be an in-game universe tying all the factions together, rather than just a bunch of random factions. I proposed my concept (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=8776.msg85394#msg85394) already.
Simple, we must apply the story, only the units that fit well with whom, what I mean exatamenente, we can merge with mitlogia and history, as there is already being done in some factions, but it is still "means" disorganized, because the megapack still had many original models magictech, this mix of mythology with history is to me what else is different and leaves megaglest more fun than other RTS classics.
The opinion is given, you can like it or not ;), but I really want to thank this great community effort.
(http://i.imgur.com/STbvP.png)
Do you really expect a historical techtree when the factions contain giant death robots powered by steam, dragons, and flying carpets? I do agree, though, that there needs to be an in-game universe tying all the factions together, rather than just a bunch of random factions. I proposed my concept (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=8776.msg85394#msg85394) already.
This and a story would make a "campaign" much easier to create. We could choose a "good" faction and have the campaign play from that perspective. Each level of the campaign would be in a different territory with a different tile set. With the added video feature, we might even add trailers between the levels to help tell the story...Actually, I was planning to make six different campaigns, one for each faction. The reasoning is that there is no "good" faction. Some are more morally correct from our viewpoint, but morality is relative. Not to mention each faction has its own views, allowing a campaign to be unique for each one, while still following the same basic storyline.
Take for instance, if the Brotherhood were the good guys. In the campaign when they attack the Wizard's Republic, the map would be mountainous and the tileset slightly snowy (maybe frost peak). When they attack Woodsmen, the map would be mostly forest and have a forest tileset... obviously.
Just something I was thinking about
So what's the reason for all this back story? Well, I could argue that the story is the most important part of a game. It binds the game together. It's the glue that holds everything else in place. Also, it makes it possible to have a memorable campaign. You probably noticed all this stuff about a plague in the faction descriptions. That's the basic premise for the scenarios. Every faction would have their own branch of scenarios. It always starts out with "who unleashed this plague?". The factions go to war against each other as they carry out their suspicions or other factions carry out their own. Ultimately, none of the factions were responsible for the plague, but rather the paladins were eradicated by an invader that wished to usurp the thrown. As proven by our own actions, the death of the paladins turned the factions against each other, providing an easy route to conquest. In all six different campaigns, the final scenario is a "boss battle" against a powerful foe capable of producing swarm units against you, unleashing powerful area attacks, etc. This is the only aspect that isn't currently possible with MegaGlest, as there is no way to create a faction that is unique to a scenario (does not appear as a choice in custom games). It would, however, be an incredibly simple feature to add (all that's needed is custom games to not show the faction as an option).
I'm actually gonna push for more historical influence. Things like the dragon and battlemachine stay, they fit, they're part of magitech. Maybe we could change one of the tech upgrades to be steam power?
The flying carpet can maybe stay but there will not be genies and stuff like that. I want to keep that magical mythology of persia, but blend it more realistically with real persia and realistic egypt.
+1 for 6 campaigns idea.
On air units:
Tech: Steam Power
Magic: Dragons, wyverns.
Egypt+Persia: Maybe flying carpet....
Rome: None.
Norse: None most likely? Zoy?
Indians: No air units, but I was thinking we could get a feature for them which allows most of their units, but none above the size of 1 to walk in the forests. To stop them from being able to just stay in there and shoot all the people outside the forest, it would have to be necessary to come out of the forest before they attack. This would allow actual ambushes. Scout units for the other factions could have this ability as well.
I'm actually gonna push for more historical influence. Things like the dragon and battlemachine stay, they fit, they're part of magitech. Maybe we could change one of the tech upgrades to be steam power?
The flying carpet can maybe stay but there will not be genies and stuff like that. I want to keep that magical mythology of persia, but blend it more realistically with real persia and realistic egypt.
+1 for 6 campaigns idea.
On air units:
Tech: Steam Power
Magic: Dragons, wyverns.
Egypt+Persia: Maybe flying carpet....
Rome: None.
Norse: None most likely? Zoy?
Indians: No air units, but I was thinking we could get a feature for them which allows most of their units, but none above the size of 1 to walk in the forests. To stop them from being able to just stay in there and shoot all the people outside the forest, it would have to be necessary to come out of the forest before they attack. This would allow actual ambushes. Scout units for the other factions could have this ability as well.
I must say I don't like the names you chose, the brother hood and the legion...As mentioned, the names are "working names". Most of the names were from a random name generator with some of the others being a couple of minutes of thought. Didn't want to spend a large amount of time thinking up names for a concept that may or may not be used. They could be changed to pretty much anything. I like some of the ideas that Arch suggested, but even then, it's open to "whatever sounds coolest". I wouldn't really fret about the names, much, though. We'll have a long artistic stage to go through, at which time the names could be changed as often as wanted.
We should stick with more known historic names I think.
Do you really expect a historical techtree when the factions contain giant death robots powered by steam, dragons, and flying carpets? I do agree, though, that there needs to be an in-game universe tying all the factions together, rather than just a bunch of random factions. I proposed my concept (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=8776.msg85394#msg85394) already.
Well, I had that stuff semi-done already. I was just seeing if you guys liked it.I like it, looks good for the Norse type faction.
^thisWell, I had that stuff semi-done already. I was just seeing if you guys liked it.I like it, looks good for the Norse type faction.
Way better than the current Norsemen.
I think it was made mainly by Titi.^thisWell, I had that stuff semi-done already. I was just seeing if you guys liked it.I like it, looks good for the Norse type faction.
Way better than the current Norsemen.
Good job, Hands! I'm very impressed!
So, I'll take Hands and Archmage, and we'll design the new Norsemen. (oh, and who made the old Norse? We should apologize to them that we're discarding their work.)
That's what I thought. Poor Titi....I think it was made mainly by Titi.^thisWell, I had that stuff semi-done already. I was just seeing if you guys liked it.I like it, looks good for the Norse type faction.
Way better than the current Norsemen.
Good job, Hands! I'm very impressed!
So, I'll take Hands and Archmage, and we'll design the new Norsemen. (oh, and who made the old Norse? We should apologize to them that we're discarding their work.)
Zoy: I'm gonna be working on all areas for all factions, and probably going to do all the animations. :O But yea I'll focus on Norse first.Well, you are the best animator on the forums. ;)
Poor Titi....
Just a warning, lets not get too ambitious or overly-confident yet. Megapack is awfully large. :|Perhaps we should do this faction by faction? There's already a topic for the norsemen (or whatever it'll be called) faction. We could start there?
Unless you want to get another team and thread going, Omega. There could be some benefits if the community split up for different factions, but there's also other benefits for all working on one faction. It's your call, buddy.Just a warning, lets not get too ambitious or overly-confident yet. Megapack is awfully large. :|Perhaps we should do this faction by faction? There's already a topic for the norsemen (or whatever it'll be called) faction. We could start there?
I would work on (the former) Romans but I'd need some Artists and I wound do concept and/or Gameplay.
<resource>
<image path="images/image.bmp"/>
<type value="static">
<recoup-cost value="true" />
</type>
<display value="false"/>
</resource>
I like the Idea of having heroes. So we should generally add at least one hero unit to each faction. To limit heroes we could use a hidden static ressource (e.g. 'legendary soul' ).Code: [Select]<resource>
<image path="images/image.bmp"/>
<type value="static">
<recoup-cost value="true" />
</type>
<display value="false"/>
</resource>
<recoup-cost value="false" /> to disable resurrection ;-)
Am I the only one here who absolutely hates to use a hidden resource? I just wished that unit limits were built into the engine!We can use unit limits for most heroes, but if the desert nomads are using two heroes, it has to be a hidden resource. I'm also not sure about setting recoup to false. If the hero is expensive enough, it should be a risk enough to lose. It'd be kind of nice if we could set a cooldown on the recoup of the resource. For example, when the hero dies, the "hero resource" isn't recuperated for, say, 3 minutes. That'd need a new feature though, and I'm wary of being dependent on non-existent features just in the hopes it might get implemented before the mod is done.
max-unit-count does not work for limiting 2 units of different types to have only one of them build...Why would we what that? If there are two heroes you should be able to produce them both.
It's A xor B, Elim.max-unit-count does not work for limiting 2 units of different types to have only one of them build...Why would we what that? If there are two heroes you should be able to produce them both.
Zoy and me did summarize the two faction topics into google documents...Hey guys, we've updated these pages! Give them a look! We want feedback. ;)
Njord: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B_exswRUbeQBSaQZD9CI0M2oYALsrnl2C353r-sI65g/edit (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B_exswRUbeQBSaQZD9CI0M2oYALsrnl2C353r-sI65g/edit)
Desert Nomads: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11jdEdRhQ4sGB0UL5KHs8K6XVtzrI-z6MLp9hnBb3JXc/edit (https://docs.google.com/document/d/11jdEdRhQ4sGB0UL5KHs8K6XVtzrI-z6MLp9hnBb3JXc/edit)
Maybe the heroes can have a unique unit associated with them. A unit that the hero can summon (that you can't get any other way) to make the faction unique.While possible, it doesn't really fit in with the current set of units, and having a non-displayed resource of which you only have one of works fine. Use <display value="false" /> in the resource XML (https://docs.megaglest.org/XML/Resource).
So, I finally got synced up with the dropbox folder and took a look at it. I'd like to propose we delete all the existing MegaPack stuff and start from scratch rather than editing it into the MegaPack. The reason for this is to prevent us from getting mixed up with old media and to make it easier to tell what we have and have not yet done.
but it could be very usefull to place the new (placeholder-)factions in a new folder...Elaborate?
Remember, Arch, HP in games is relative. I think that your numbers are too high. 675 should be a heavy unit, not a weak one. To be honest, I think that we should base the stats off of Magitech, since that have good numbers (although we could increase damage a little).
you misunderstood me, I meant that Heavy units would have more HP than other units, even if their HP is ~650. I.E. 650 would be a lot of HP.Oh, sure, that's fine then.
Quotebut it could be very usefull to place the new (placeholder-)factions in a new folder...Elaborate?
Siege or a bunch of very powerful units[hero, airship, etc] should be pretty much the only units capable of even touching the main or defensive buildings. It's really lame how in glest 20 units can kill a defense tower with little effort.
I don't think its a good idea to vary far from the default magitech HP style because most mods are balanced with magitech and people will want to play other mods with megapack.There's going to be balance issues no matter what. Even if the HP of most units aren't changed, the much higher than average HP of the buildings is a big difference. Not to mention that units are going to be stronger, since we're aiming for 3-4 hits to kill themselves, right? So the way I see it, balance with non-megapack factions is going to be broken no matter what, so may as well choose a standard we think will best fit the game.
atm each unit is able to kill it self with 2-3 hits wich seems to be kind of wrong for tanky units ....
anyone else tested my protoype faction?
3. Something that Omega and I are still discussing is this, that all Myth units should be "magically" armored. I'm hoping on giving one (or more) of our factions a "Witch Hunter"-esque unit that excels at killing magically armored units (eg, the Magic's Behemoth, the Njord's Einherjar, the Nomadic Phoenix, etc).Not necessarily all, but many. The "magical" armour type was initially intended for magical barriers and such, but can be applied to other units for balance. For example, the Einherjar has magical armour, which makes sense since it's a mythical unit. The magical armour type also turns the fields a bit for factions with largely magical units, since its not as vulnerable as the organic or cloth types. The basis behind the magical multipliers is that magical barriers require energy from the user to maintain, and pressure on the barriers uses up this energy. So an attack that is focused on a small area, such as a piercing attack, would be ineffectual, while an attack focused on a large area, like an impact attack, would be very effective.
3. Something that Omega and I are still discussing is this, that all Myth units should be "magically" armored. I'm hoping on giving one (or more) of our factions a "Witch Hunter"-esque unit that excels at killing magically armored units (eg, the Magic's Behemoth, the Njord's Einherjar, the Nomadic Phoenix, etc).Not necessarily all, but many. The "magical" armour type was initially intended for magical barriers and such, but can be applied to other units for balance. For example, the Einherjar has magical armour, which makes sense since it's a mythical unit. The magical armour type also turns the fields a bit for factions with largely magical units, since its not as vulnerable as the organic or cloth types. The basis behind the magical multipliers is that magical barriers require energy from the user to maintain, and pressure on the barriers uses up this energy. So an attack that is focused on a small area, such as a piercing attack, would be ineffectual, while an attack focused on a large area, like an impact attack, would be very effective.
Such a type should be relatively rare. It fits the Einherjar well. This is the first I've heard about a Phoenix, but any creature that's an embodiment of magic well fits the description. I'm not so sure about the behemoth, though, which I always regarded as very high HP but vulnerable, exposed flesh. It would, however, fit the god-like hero units of the Nomads well.
Hey, there was a clever idea that I had for my failed mod, Constellus, that I want to implement here. I like to call them "Strategic Techs." A Strategic Tech is a special, completely free upgrade at one of the higher upgrade buildings on the tech tree that give a wonderful bonus to your faction....at a heavy cost. Every faction would have one of these techs.Sounds neat, but it would be better to make it temporary, which is possible I think.
eg. here's what I want to give the Njord:
-The Last Stand: All military units get a +25% attack damage bonus and a +10% attack speed bonus, at the cost of 30% max HP. Yes, you're lowering their already low HP for a permanent attack bonus. (these values can be changed)
Now, because there is no cost, this is a completely optional upgrade, you have no obligation to get it.
What do you think? I would like to add these into the game since they add a subtle amount of new strategy into it.
That's the whole point of it, Elim, that it's permanent. The whole point is to force the player to ask himself "Is this tradeoff worth it?"Hey, there was a clever idea that I had for my failed mod, Constellus, that I want to implement here. I like to call them "Strategic Techs." A Strategic Tech is a special, completely free upgrade at one of the higher upgrade buildings on the tech tree that give a wonderful bonus to your faction....at a heavy cost. Every faction would have one of these techs.Sounds neat, but it would be better to make it temporary, which is possible I think.
eg. here's what I want to give the Njord:
-The Last Stand: All military units get a +25% attack damage bonus and a +10% attack speed bonus, at the cost of 30% max HP. Yes, you're lowering their already low HP for a permanent attack bonus. (these values can be changed)
Now, because there is no cost, this is a completely optional upgrade, you have no obligation to get it.
What do you think? I would like to add these into the game since they add a subtle amount of new strategy into it.
The problem with the permanent change is that there is likely one correct answer to the problem so its not really a decision.These upgrades would be based upon two things that the faction is geared for in the first place. In the case of the Njord, who are based upon damage output, speed, and a lack of HP, this upgrade works great for them. Do you want to get an immense damage bonus (I could raise it to 50%) at the cost of losing something you have little of in the first place?
I guess maybe if you focused hard on ranged one game you might go for the boost, and if you went melee you wouldn't. But that would require a balance in the faction where focusing on one of those options wasn't clearly superior.
Well for the Njord it should be opposite, less damage but more HP.The problem with the permanent change is that there is likely one correct answer to the problem so its not really a decision.These upgrades would be based upon two things that the faction is geared for in the first place. In the case of the Njord, who are based upon damage output, speed, and a lack of HP, this upgrade works great for them. Do you want to get an immense damage bonus (I could raise it to 50%) at the cost of losing something you have little of in the first place?
I guess maybe if you focused hard on ranged one game you might go for the boost, and if you went melee you wouldn't. But that would require a balance in the faction where focusing on one of those options wasn't clearly superior.
I was debating between both of those (since both would work), but I thought that going with an HP boost at the cost of attack power made them seem "normal," like they'd lose what made them special.Well for the Njord it should be opposite, less damage but more HP.The problem with the permanent change is that there is likely one correct answer to the problem so its not really a decision.These upgrades would be based upon two things that the faction is geared for in the first place. In the case of the Njord, who are based upon damage output, speed, and a lack of HP, this upgrade works great for them. Do you want to get an immense damage bonus (I could raise it to 50%) at the cost of losing something you have little of in the first place?
I guess maybe if you focused hard on ranged one game you might go for the boost, and if you went melee you wouldn't. But that would require a balance in the faction where focusing on one of those options wasn't clearly superior.
The problem with the permanent change is that there is likely one correct answer to the problem so its not really a decision.These upgrades would be based upon two things that the faction is geared for in the first place. In the case of the Njord, who are based upon damage output, speed, and a lack of HP, this upgrade works great for them. Do you want to get an immense damage bonus (I could raise it to 50%) at the cost of losing something you have little of in the first place?
I guess maybe if you focused hard on ranged one game you might go for the boost, and if you went melee you wouldn't. But that would require a balance in the faction where focusing on one of those options wasn't clearly superior.
A perfectly valid strategy! See? That's why I want it, to get people to think like that.The problem with the permanent change is that there is likely one correct answer to the problem so its not really a decision.These upgrades would be based upon two things that the faction is geared for in the first place. In the case of the Njord, who are based upon damage output, speed, and a lack of HP, this upgrade works great for them. Do you want to get an immense damage bonus (I could raise it to 50%) at the cost of losing something you have little of in the first place?
I guess maybe if you focused hard on ranged one game you might go for the boost, and if you went melee you wouldn't. But that would require a balance in the faction where focusing on one of those options wasn't clearly superior.
But you don't want to have a case of why would I ever not take the upgrade, because the whole point is that it's a strategic choice. Assuming that it goes as far as having a specific yes or no for each faction, that makes it a utility upgrade.
Although I suppose it could work like, if opponent stacks range don't take it, as opposed to just based on if you stack range.
So if you went range and they went melee you could crush them with the upgrade.
The problem with the permanent change is that there is likely one correct answer to the problem so its not really a decision.This. Since we're dealing with raw numbers here, it's a little tricky to make this a choice rather than a problem to solve (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlOXAtPvMDk). Of course, even if it is a problem, the solution may vary depending on the circumstances (e.g. what factions you're playing against), but the upgrade is either going to be worth it or not worth it based on the trade-off. I'm inclined to agree that maybe making it temporary but beneficial would be the way to go (not unlike AoM's god powers) so you can give your units a boost when they desperately need it, but you need to make it count since it's only good once. That still puts it firmly in the "problem" category, but it makes it a much trickier one because you have to predict when the best time to use it will be.
I agree haha. I hate obsessive balancing in multiplayer focused games so much. Its why single player games are just more fun.
I refer to this as the competitive/exploratory dichotomy. I prefer exploratory strategy.
Really? Because competitive balance is one of the things that I love most about RTS's! I love seeing how all the factions differ, and how they are the same. I find it very intriguing seeing balanced factions duking it out using their variances.
And for those of you who find it stupid, I'm sorry to tell you that is the entire point of an RTS. (oh, and Seth, those guns are balanced, no, really)
(oh, and Seth, those guns are balanced, no, really)
Really? Because competitive balance is one of the things that I love most about RTS's! I love seeing how all the factions differ, and how they are the same. I find it very intriguing seeing balanced factions duking it out using their variances.
And for those of you who find it stupid, I'm sorry to tell you that is the entire point of an RTS. (oh, and Seth, those guns are balanced, no, really)
Balance isn't the point of an RTS, strategy is the point. Balance makes games too predictable I think. If Rome was 'balanced' with the rest of the world, it would've sucked sh*t. The whole world would be a mess of completely balanced clans duelling endlessly. I think that's rather stupid....
Lets just say all the tech trees HAVE to be fairly balanced or it wont be fun because a certain faction will always win.Yes, the whole point of balancing is to allow any one faction to beat any other faction on any given map. That's what I hate about many games out there, that not many people understand the concept of "balance," so often times one thing beats everything else - and that's not fun!
Like the USA is now?Balance isn't the point of an RTS, strategy is the point. Balance makes games too predictable I think. If Rome was 'balanced' with the rest of the world, it would've sucked sh*t. The whole world would be a mess of completely balanced clans duelling endlessly. I think that's rather stupid....
IRL, the Romans had the greatest power and militaristic force, but their government was viciously corrupt. It's why they lost to the hands of Germanic barbarians (coupled with the fact that they became too complacent in their power). So, at that period in time, were they "balanced"? I guess you can say so.
IRL, the Romans had the greatest power and militaristic force, but their government was viciously corrupt. It's why they lost to the hands of Germanic barbarians (coupled with the fact that they became too complacent in their power). So, at that period in time, were they "balanced"? I guess you can say so.They became corrupt over time as all large nations do, but they were massively powerful in every way for a long time.
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Lets just say all the tech trees HAVE to be fairly balanced or it wont be fun because a certain faction will always win.
Yes, the whole point of balancing is to allow any one faction to beat any other faction on any given map. That's what I hate about many games out there, that not many people understand the concept of "balance," so often times one thing beats everything else - and that's not fun!
You guys had said that there's no strategy to a balanced game, but there is. The whole point is to become victorious with what's given to you, something that is differently equivalent to your opponent. All of the strategy is based off of the fact that you're equal, and that you could fight forever. That's what makes it so interesting.
Killing Goliath with David != "strategy."
Regardless if one faction is overpowered it will always win unless one player is better then another.
QuoteIRL, the Romans had the greatest power and militaristic force, but their government was viciously corrupt. It's why they lost to the hands of Germanic barbarians (coupled with the fact that they became too complacent in their power). So, at that period in time, were they "balanced"? I guess you can say so.They became corrupt over time as all large nations do, but they were massively powerful in every way for a long time.QuoteQuote
Lets just say all the tech trees HAVE to be fairly balanced or it wont be fun because a certain faction will always win.
Yes, the whole point of balancing is to allow any one faction to beat any other faction on any given map. That's what I hate about many games out there, that not many people understand the concept of "balance," so often times one thing beats everything else - and that's not fun!
You guys had said that there's no strategy to a balanced game, but there is. The whole point is to become victorious with what's given to you, something that is differently equivalent to your opponent. All of the strategy is based off of the fact that you're equal, and that you could fight forever. That's what makes it so interesting.
Killing Goliath with David != "strategy."
But you see.... that's not the point man, technically speaking there is always 'balance', it's just that the balance is NEVER equal. The point is it should be scary to face THE LEGION, because they are very powerful, not because they have (mega) next to their name, which only signifies that they cheat extra hard. I can argue that there is a LOT more strategy in battles where it isn't balanced. You should see my dad's personal tech tree, it's so far from balanced but he loves it, and he's a strategy freak he made it that way because he wants longer more strategic games.