MegaGlest Forum

Modding and game content creation => Mods => Topic started by: -Archmage- on 18 December 2012, 00:20:11

Title: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: -Archmage- on 18 December 2012, 00:20:11
Please keep discussion in the other threads, this thread is meant more for updates and to showcase stuff.


Roster:

Graphics Design Lead:   Archmage
Gameplay/Core Design Lead: Zoythrus+Omega+Muwum(Zomegauwumthrus)


GAMEPLAY
Restructuring
-Zoythrus(Norse Team)
-Omega(Desert Team)
-Arch(Norse Team)
-Muwum(Desert Team)

----------
GRAPHICS
Modellers
-Arch(Norse Team)
-Elim(Desert Team)
-MightyMic(Norse Team)
-Omega(Desert Team)
-Psychedelic Hands(Norse Team)

Texturers
-Arch(Norse Team)
-Elim(Desert Team)
-Omega(Desert Team)
-Psychedelic Hands(Norse Team)

Animators
-Arch(Norse Team)
-Elim(Desert Team)

----------
CODING
Muwum(Desert Team)
Zoythrus(Norse Team)

JOIN:
Either post or send me a PM if you would like to join the roster and modify your positions. If you post I will make the changes you request and then remove the post as to keep this topic clean. I read the other topics and will add you to the roster if you post there too.


DROPBOX ACCESS: Is for roster and MG dev members only. To get access you will need to download and have a username with dropbox (http://dropbox.com), then send your dropbox email to either me or mightymic (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?action=profile;u=33329)(hosting the folder), and you will be invited. At which point you need to click the link in your email to agree. Then dropbox will download what's in the shared folder to your computer(Default: {USER}\Dropbox\{Shared Folder}.


DEVELOPMENT:
Generic Refit Discussion (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=8776.0)
Norse Faction (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=8787.0) - Team assembled. WIP.
Desert Faction (https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=8793.0) - Team half-assembled..

Attack and armour types (unit stats on second tab) (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgtJP_M46-bidHNJNEhnNVgyQlBCeHF5TDJmTjlRc3c#gid=3)
Norse techtree (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B_exswRUbeQBSaQZD9CI0M2oYALsrnl2C353r-sI65g/edit)
Desert Nomads techtree (https://docs.google.com/document/d/11jdEdRhQ4sGB0UL5KHs8K6XVtzrI-z6MLp9hnBb3JXc/edit)
Title: Re: Megapack Refit -- Official Topic
Post by: -Archmage- on 19 December 2012, 14:19:19
ShowCase #1

Base Male Model. Blend will become available sometime during development.
Model: Psychedelic Hands and Archmage
Animation: Archmage

Full Sprint toward completion!
(http://i50.tinypic.com/qsk0wl.gif)

Other teams starting development please message Arch for an ASAP download link, or wait until it is posted. Feel free to create your own base mesh, but this will be released to the community modelled as seen, animated in walk, jog, and run, with a complete and detailed armature. Only this animation is complete, thus why you may want to wait for the release!

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Megapack Refit -- Official Topic
Post by: Omega on 19 December 2012, 15:47:31
That model. I want that model. When you're ready, anyway. The humanoid figures should share roughly the same proportions. Probably should be available with a UV and bones. Anyway, nice animation, Arch.

EDIT: Moving topic to the mods board so all the MegaGlest refit topics are on the same board (it is a mod, anyway).
Title: Re: Megapack Refit -- Official Topic
Post by: -Archmage- on 19 December 2012, 18:43:15
Ok! Hands and I will crank this stuff out and make it available ASAP! I'm assuming that we'll all use this model and set of animations as the base for the refit. Stuff can be added to the armature for cloth, helmets, weapons, stuff like that, and the animation modified as necessary. That way we don't have 1 guy running drunk, another running perfect, another running backwards like in a lot of collaborative mods.
Title: Re: Megapack Refit -- Official Topic
Post by: -Archmage- on 19 December 2012, 22:46:12
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2wg4oy1.gif)

New animation that will be available in community release.
Title: Re: Megapack Refit -- Official Topic
Post by: Omega on 20 December 2012, 09:52:43
Ok! Hands and I will crank this stuff out and make it available ASAP! I'm assuming that we'll all use this model and set of animations as the base for the refit. Stuff can be added to the armature for cloth, helmets, weapons, stuff like that, and the animation modified as necessary. That way we don't have 1 guy running drunk, another running perfect, another running backwards like in a lot of collaborative mods.
In which case, do you want to make a few animations, or at the very least, running and stopped (and possibly death?). Obviously the animations would have to be tweaked slightly the weapons, and diversity of the weapons makes a generic attack animation useless, but death animations are pretty straightforward with regards to the character themselves. Bear in mind that MegaGlest allows multiple animations, and the death animations would benefit the most from that (and attack, but that's up to each individual unit).

Although to be fair, it's the base model that we would need the most, as it could be used in everything from a camel archer to a swordsman to a worker, in which cases the animations would vary widely (workers, for example, should be walking rather than running, which would also mean less arm movement).
Title: Re: Megapack Refit -- Official Topic
Post by: -Archmage- on 20 December 2012, 12:45:10
Walking animation is also done Omega, don't worry. It will be included and showcased soon.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: -Archmage- on 21 December 2012, 18:30:56
New poll. I won graphics lead with 6-0. :D Thanks guys!
Gameplay lead is the new poll.

The leads will kinda be like project directors, the people that discuss and gather the opinions of everyone and work it into the plans and make it happen!
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: ElimiNator on 22 December 2012, 01:14:48
I did a walking anim because arch already did the charging/running ones:

(http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy127/Elimiator/walk_anim_zpsb8f64283.gif?t=1356138253)

Please give me feed back to make it better.  :)
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: -Archmage- on 22 December 2012, 02:24:58
Elim that is definitely the best animation I've seen out of you. It looks pretty good! :thumbup:

Things I noticed:
-Feet jut forward, they need to swing and angle up more.
-Lower part of the arm is stiff.
-Arm should twist inward a bit when they go forward.
-More head movement.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: -Archmage- on 22 December 2012, 09:10:53
I did actually make a walking animation a couple days ago by the way. :P

Here it is:
(http://i46.tinypic.com/143nzhl.gif)

Next showcase is community choice! :angel:
Assassin's Creed Style Sprint, orrrrrr a quick shuffle animation.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: Omega on 22 December 2012, 16:22:08
Definitely a sprint. It could be useful as a charge animation for the attack skill (which can use a separate move skill than the move command, eg, the swordman).
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: -Archmage- on 22 December 2012, 21:56:57
True Omega. :thumbup:
It's a bit slow but it looks pretty solid at good speed. ;)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/ih4kcp.gif)
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: Zoythrus on 22 December 2012, 22:40:58
Hey, instead of a poll, why can't Omega, Muwum, and I all share the title of "Lead Designer"?
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: -Archmage- on 22 December 2012, 23:32:22
Hey, instead of a poll, why can't Omega, Muwum, and I all share the title of "Lead Designer"?

That works... I guess.

EDIT: Ok I put up a new poll. Unless everyone votes for other, consider it done. :P
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: -Archmage- on 23 December 2012, 01:25:50
I'm updating the resource models/textures.

GOLD:
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2lig8qx.jpg)

The blurry parts of the texture are all the g3d viewers fault.  :-\
Don't worry if the texture looks too crisp it's only 87kb 512*512. ;)

Stone could just use a texture upgrade I think.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: ElimiNator on 23 December 2012, 01:45:32
That wont look like gold from MG's high camera, it needs gold showing/more yellow.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: -Archmage- on 23 December 2012, 02:00:47
That wont look like gold from MG's high camera, it needs gold showing/more yellow.

Yea I know this will be an issue, but I'll fix it don't worry.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: Omega on 23 December 2012, 02:05:10
Regarding the blurriness, it's because the G3D viewer is limited to very basic texture filtering (basically, how textures are modified when viewing them at an angle). I'm not sure what exactly, but probably bilinear. MegaGlest itself defaults to bilinear and can support trilinear filtering, though trilinear isn't that much of a difference. Anisotropic filtering would make a huge difference, but might be difficult to implement (not sure; on one hand, the algorithms are well defined and already written, but on the other hand, I even understand the finer points of how it works). Not related to the MegaPack refit, just explaining the blurring.

At any rate, are we aiming for some level of texture detail in the refit? Units could easily use 512x512 textures. Beyond that for a single cell unit won't do much, though. Buildings, however, could use 1024 x 1024 and maybe even up to 2048 x 2048 textures before larger textures hit the point of severely diminishing returns (ie, no difference). However, outside of the game, larger textures could be very useful in media such as artwork or the starting video (I'd actually really like to redo that video when we're done with the mod, as it has a really rigid feel to it). What we could do is use large textures when creating models and then downscale them to an appropriate size for in the game. So we might model our spearman with a 1024 x 1024 texture, but in the game, it'd use a 512 x 512 or maybe a 256 x 256 texture. Whichever we feel gives the most "bang for our buck". The larger texture could be an option for use in other media. Of course, that could make unnecessary extra work for modelers, so I wouldn't intend to enforce it. Just an interesting idea if the modeler feels up to it.

But any way, while we're on the topic of textures, I do think we need some standards. In particular, I propose we use PNG images for ALL textures. There's no reason to use TGA or BMP textures, since PNG has the same level of quality while being a smaller file size and more supported format. JPG is cool, but we have multiple people working on this project, so I'd imagine we'd see some people editing textures made by others. That means that if we use JPG, that lossely encoding is going to work against us, since the image quality would be decreased every time we save the image.

Furthermore, I'd like to propose that all textures MUST have a resolution that's a multiple of 2 (for example, 512 x 512, 1024 x 256, or 64 x 64). The reason for this is that some (old) graphics cards apparently have issues with non-power of two textures. While the people that are effected are a minority, there's really no disadvantage for using images that are a power of two.

I'd also like to take a look at how we'd do the XMLs. I think that due to how relatively easy the XMLs can be and how hard it is to have multiple people working at the same time on them, we should have one volunteer do the XMLs for a faction, then other members can go over them and discuss where they think changes should be. Obviously this means that to ensure the first draft is as good as possible, factions must be well planned out. That's currently looking quite good. At any rate, balance can be done by the individuals after the first draft is made (at which point it's much easier to collaborate). I do believe that MuwuM has started the XMLs for the Desert Nomads?

On a final note, multiple gameplay "leads" works well. We're all equals here, and the forum and Google Docs format make collaboration easy. We simply need to choose volunteers when tasks requiring a single person cope up (such as the aforementioned XMLs stage). Not to mention that when one person is busy or away, we have two others available for easy accessibility.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: -Archmage- on 23 December 2012, 02:15:05
Quote
Regarding the blurriness, it's because the G3D viewer is limited to very basic texture filtering (basically, how textures are modified when viewing them at an angle). I'm not sure what exactly, but probably bilinear. MegaGlest itself defaults to bilinear and can support trilinear filtering, though trilinear isn't that much of a difference. Anisotropic filtering would make a huge difference, but might be difficult to implement (not sure; on one hand, the algorithms are well defined and already written, but on the other hand, I even understand the finer points of how it works). Not related to the MegaPack refit, just explaining the blurring.
I know, I'm just saying because it's making my art look like crap.

Quote
At any rate, are we aiming for some level of texture detail in the refit? Units could easily use 512x512 textures. Beyond that for a single cell unit won't do much, though. Buildings, however, could use 1024 x 1024 and maybe even up to 2048 x 2048 textures before larger textures hit the point of severely diminishing returns (ie, no difference). However, outside of the game, larger textures could be very useful in media such as artwork or the starting video (I'd actually really like to redo that video when we're done with the mod, as it has a really rigid feel to it). What we could do is use large textures when creating models and then downscale them to an appropriate size for in the game. So we might model our spearman with a 1024 x 1024 texture, but in the game, it'd use a 512 x 512 or maybe a 256 x 256 texture. Whichever we feel gives the most "bang for our buck". The larger texture could be an option for use in other media. Of course, that could make unnecessary extra work for modelers, so I wouldn't intend to enforce it. Just an interesting idea if the modeler feels up to it.

But any way, while we're on the topic of textures, I do think we need some standards. In particular, I propose we use PNG images for ALL textures. There's no reason to use TGA or BMP textures, since PNG has the same level of quality while being a smaller file size and more supported format. JPG is cool, but we have multiple people working on this project, so I'd imagine we'd see some people editing textures made by others. That means that if we use JPG, that lossely encoding is going to work against us, since the image quality would be decreased every time we save the image.

Better yet work on a source image(higher res, 100% Quality, etc), then export to a smaller image. I have a high quality JPG for a source and a 40% quality JPG for an export. I tested and the quality difference is miniscule. But yea if I was to continuously export it over and over at 40% I'd have some serious issues. I think we should be pushing for larger textures. 512 on units 1024 on large units, and yes even 2048 on buildings. PNG should be used on any image that needs teamcolor or transparency. JPGs should be used for any texture such as a tileable material texture for something like a rock, anything that doesn't need alpha.

A big thing is in the final stages we want reasonable loading times across all hardware. All textures should use as much compression as Glest will allow. In GIMP and photoshop, please uncheck saving extra data, ramp the compression to max, and experiment with low quality JPG images(as I said this often scales well).

Power of 2. :thumbup:

EDIT: By the way, who is currently able to work in the dropbox folder?
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: Zoythrus on 23 December 2012, 02:26:20
Hey, just so you all know, due to the Christmas season, I am not able to do any work for a few days.  But I'll get back into this all (and be productive) afterwards.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: Omega on 23 December 2012, 02:57:26
JPGs should be used for any texture such as a tileable material texture for something like a rock, anything that doesn't need alpha.
I have to disagree with this. I don't think the filesize should matter that much, especially since there's likely not going to be that many images without transparency (since all units should have team colour somewhere). The main issue with JPG is that it's lossely. Every time you save it, some information is lost. Saving at 100% quality gets around that, sure, but the moment someone saves it at a lower quality, it all starts going downhill. With so many people working on the project, we can expect that the files will likely be saved over multiple times, and if not at 100% quality, the JPG image will lose more information each time, making future editing harder. Heck, even 1% compression will add minor artefacts that might not be visible, but can effect the editing by messing up selection abilities. I just think it's easier to use PNG, which doesn't have these issues. If filesize is an issue, we can run all PNG images through a program like PNGGauntlet, which maximizes the compression on images (it can take ages to save the image, but really squeezes out every excess byte). However, I'd expect maybe 10-20% of images to have no transparency, which means that filesize should't be that much of an issue.

At either rate, I'd rather we priorize quality and "future-proof" over file size.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (NEW POLL)
Post by: -Archmage- on 23 December 2012, 03:49:42
Omega, JPG works just fine and has serious file size gains over PNG. :O
All the stuff you said is true if you don't use source files. But who is that stupid!? :P

People are more or less confined to their area of work. Desert Faction workers will not likely be touching the Norse teams work. People that don't know what their doing with textures will most likely not touch them. I almost always copy other peoples work before I edit it .

Anyway, more importantly. Dropbox. Who has access?

People with known dropbox access:
-Archmage
-Mightymic
-Zoythrus
-Psychedelic Hands
-luisconnelly

That's the Norse team... What's going on with the Desert team?
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 23/12/2012)
Post by: MuwuM on 23 December 2012, 10:10:36
I have access to the Dropbox, too.
I'm building the Techtree defined in our GoogleDoc in glest xml's using placeholders for testing Gameplay.
Eliminator started work on chariot.
Omega would do some smaller stuff during christmas.

Do we need any kind of sound artists??
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 23/12/2012)
Post by: Omega on 23 December 2012, 10:33:55
Do we need any kind of sound artists??
We're definitely going to need some sound artists, but I think we're going to have to see the final models first, so we can make the sounds fit the unit best. We'd also be best off making a list of all the sound effects we need, so multiple people could contribute. There's a number of online repositories with compatible licenses, but a number of sound effects will have to be recorded, not to mention voices. For the music, I don't think we have any composers in the community, so that's a matter of picking the best fitting music available online. If MegaGlest implements a feature to allow multiple music tracks per faction, I'd like to take advantage of that. Otherwise we could chain a few different tracks into one very large track and use it to avoid too repetitive music.

At any rate, I think music is something that should be saved for last. It's easily done after the XMLs and models are complete.

However, while we're on the topic, there is the whole idea of icons. At some point, each faction should come up with a standard background for their icons. I suppose we could have multiple different backgrounds like Tech does, provided we're consistent, but that's not necessary, in my opinion. I propose that all unit icons be a close up of the unit (eg, swordman (http://i.imgur.com/ot8Yf.jpg)). For buildings, we could use line art representing the building (eg, castle (http://i.imgur.com/GXNXa.jpg)). For commands, we would use the same style of line art as buildings, but with an image that could be easily recognized as the command (eg, swordman attack (http://i.imgur.com/V2lZG.jpg)). I think this would look best because out of all the current factions in the MegaPack, the original magitech factions seem to have the best icons.

Icons will have to wait until the model is complete, and I think it'd be easiest if one person does all the icons in a faction, for consistency.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 23/12/2012)
Post by: Psychedelic_hands on 23 December 2012, 11:22:12
Once we get on later in the project, I'd like to make a thread on some voice acting forums, and see if we can't get any actual actors to do unit voices.
All we have to do is look professional enough so that a person would be happy to have the megapack on their resume. So that of course means we need to get the work done first!
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 23/12/2012)
Post by: Zoythrus on 23 December 2012, 16:31:14
Even though I'm not a professional voice actor, I would be willing to voice a unit. I just don't know if my mic is good enough quality. What do you guys think? (if you want to hear what I sound like, find me on Skype.)
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: MuwuM on 15 January 2013, 14:10:46
What is the current status of our project? I did not hear anything within the last few days. Does anyone know a way to keep in trac with new stuff / changes ?(I personally don't have the time to search all subfolders in Dropbox and Google Drive every day). Skype discussions are hard to follow (and to join) with about 6-8 hours difference. Are all still working on their tasks?

My current state:
Conception of Desert people => first draft finished
XML Structure => Basically designed / need to add new units & heroes / need to use modified valued from the Google Doc
2D World-map => Created basic file / new names needs to be changed/ switching to svg to have a better scaling?
Engine Support for 100% Translation => Started, a lot of work done (most of it was searching) / need to be completed and reviewed and accepted by the MG Dev's (primary softcoder)
First Draft for Campaign-story for Desert Faction => done at about 50%, will be posed when about 100% is done (It's just a first draft).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: Zoythrus on 15 January 2013, 18:44:41
I haven't been able to contribute much recently, due to my job hunt (more like wild goose chase), and other IRL happenings.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: wciow on 15 January 2013, 23:30:40
I've modeled the Obelisk and am currently texturing it. I will also do the Garden models once the obelisk is finished.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: -Archmage- on 15 January 2013, 23:37:54
I've modeled the Obelisk and am currently texturing it. I will also do the Garden models once the obelisk is finished.
Man why didn't you check the repo?? I already took the egyptian obelisk and improved it and added a destruction animation.. :look:
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: Omega on 16 January 2013, 00:07:35
I dunno if Wciow has access to it. I'm going to need your email address, please. PM it or whatever and I'll add you to the Drive repo.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: ElimiNator on 1 April 2013, 19:57:15
MegaGlest Refit is now finished here is the download:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?4mx2muvep4gliu8
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: Hagekura on 2 April 2013, 08:31:23
MegaGlest Refit is now finished here is the download:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?4mx2muvep4gliu8
I got fooled.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: titi on 2 April 2013, 14:04:51
 ;D
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: Zoythrus on 6 June 2013, 18:23:34
Well, school's over, so let's get this thing going again!
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: Omega on 6 June 2013, 20:59:30
Well, school's over, so let's get this thing going again!
Summer classes :P But please do.
Title: Re: MegaGlest Refit -- Official Topic (Updated 31/12/2012)
Post by: Zoythrus on 6 June 2013, 23:18:19
Well, school's over, so let's get this thing going again!
Summer classes :P But please do.

Yeah, I have some of those, too, but it's better than normal school.