Glest Campaing ideas... pour yours in!

[Thetargos]

So, we all reckon this game is great and that it would immensely benefit from having a campaing. Even though right now development has slowed down for a bit lately, I think we can all throw our ideas for an "official campaign" for single player mode. I know that for this, Glest should have some sort of scripting engine built into it, but that may be figured out later (maybe one python based, or written from scratch?). Anyway, I was thinking on this and in order to have a campaign there must be a plot. The developers have already outlined the world, why the conflict arose in the first place and have layed out the rules and environment of Glest's world. So building from there I thought that we could write up a plot-campaign based on those events and expand onto an unfolding story.

From other games of which I'm also a huge fan, like Starcraft and Warcraft, I have learnt one thing: A good plot makes a good game. It doesn't matter if it does not have the latest "bling-bling" effects, or if it doesn't require the latest and greates system to run and the meanest graphics card around. All that only aids to tell a story.

The project is kind of stalled, which is a good opportunity to come up with great ideas and maybe pickup development to expand onto those ideas. The dev team may coordinate us and discuss certain "needed" features and whatnot, but for that to happen, we need to get together and throw in as many ideas as we can for the campaign. And how to organize it. We have the rare opportunity to extend and possibly make the landmark open source game... Well, NetHack and Wesnoth have already beaten us on that, but you get the idea.

So pour in your ideas and see where this adventure takes us!

[Geckabor]

Well i think there should be so called ''heroes''. Maybe 3 for tech and 3 for magic. They should be pretty strong and only live once. That is i lots of strategy games. It would be awsome here too!!!

[divineauthority]

Well if ther was to be a campaign i think it would be pretty nice to play through part of the story, with some cinematics too  

[max]

Hi, I discovered glest only a few days ago... and its wonderful !

But, IMHO, it lacks a few majors things :
- online games
- solo campaign

Since I don't have a lot of programming skills (unless there is something to do with python), i'll focus on the campaign idea.

- I like the "hero" thing (this elite unit that must not die or the mission fail).
- A "Starcraft"-like scenario, as said by divineauthority, is a good idea (the player starts with the Techs, complete the campaign and then unlock the Magic).
- As well as in "Starcraft", maybe the Tech shouldn't only fights Magic but have some missions against others Tech factions.
- Alternating "Build and Destroy" / "Seek and Destroy" / "Reach xxx amout of xxx harvested / xxx unites produced" / "Rescue or Assinate someone" - types missions are the key for non-boring campaigns.
- Techs trees that reveal themselves mission after mission

But I also think that 2 races maybe a little to low for a killer-scenario. We should start thinking about all that and put together some nice ideas for the devs...

[v.v.b.]

Here are some thoughts about Glest campaigns.

1. Which campaign is first?
It depends.
If they'll be HEROES which take part in BOTH of campaigns, and campaigns are binded tightly, so... You'll have to look to the script of campaigns.

3. Artifacts.
It'll helps to build campaign too. Say, 'Sword of Dragon'+12 attack... It'll be MORE then welcome to have one of those.
For magician there can be artifacts to give some powerfull spells like ChainLighning (m-m-m-m.... my favorite .
Here my first-come-to-mind small explanation.
Long time ago, in a far away galaxy...
One day, one man found old book. He is starting to study it, and one day he realize, that it's a magic this books describes.
He is starting to understand more and more of written on this old language. He is startnig to get a school to teach peoples.
So, some of the people starting to learn magic.
As they learn more, they become more prosperous and more powerful.
Now they can dicatate to all their own rules.
They think, that if you have MAGIC, you can DO everything. And they are starting to invent ONLY MAGIC. And all other science seems useless to them.
They even prohibit to do science researches. They think it's a wasting time and money.
So, they are starting to increase taxes, take all good places for living to build their academies.
Same old totalitarizm if you like
One night technics secret base was destroyed by magicians. It was Judas who told there it was.
So, our technic hero (say, his name is Izo... I don't know why. Just Izo).

[1 mission]
First thing you have to do -- it's to get to nearest village.
[Victory condition -- get to village]
[Lose condition -- Izo get killed]
First map is classical "let's get to know interface". "Hero comes here", and "Hero comes there". It's very simple.
There you meet some of the other techics survivors (say, swordsmans and archers).
As usual there are small bands of opponent patrols, which can be slain very easely.
My favorite thing in Warcraft-III it's that if you'll search ALL map, you'll always found something interesting. It can be artifact to increase attack or defence skills.
But it might be also 2-3 POWERFULL units, like ornithopters.
So, finally, Izo gets to village.

[2 mission]
Now you have to find one of inventors, who recently invent robot. Izo thinks that robots are helps him to win the war.
[Victory conditions -- Find inventor]
[Lose conditions -- Izo get killed]
[submissions -- build barracks, 3 swordsmans, 3 archers... bla-bla-bla]
It's the first map with micro-economics. And you'll have to build base first. Then you'll have to ruine magician posts to get to inventor.

...................................................................
Uff... If somebody is still there, here are some other thoughts about one possible twist of script:
[mission N] After killing one of the magician, Izo found magician artifact.
[After it there can be scene where are some magicians are discuss this. And they telling, that "ALL is going like they are planning"]
[mission N+1] Izo use it to attack magician, and artifact helps him to kill a magician more easely.
[mission N+2] Other technicians are become more and more worried about this artifact. They come to Izo with delegation. But he is staying deaf to all their speaches. He thinks that artifact helps them to achieve main goal -- to stop war. They are insist on to destroy artifact and "stay clear technic". But Izo is immune to all their requests. So techincs are put forward ultimatum: "next morning Izo must destroy artifact. Otherwise they are starting attack."
At this night some magicians are coming to Izo and propose to use all his power to get more "freedom". They are propose to kill all these "falsy technics". Izo declains their proposal. He thinks that technics will never attack other technic.
But on the morning battle begins. Izo kill all technician opponents.
[mission N+3] Izo now is friend-killer. So, again magician are come to Izo and propose to get to their side. And he agrees...

4. So. Here is the formula:
"Heroes & artifacts => script => missions => campaign".

Vadim V. Balashoff

[rudravishnu]

nice idea,but the story could add some twist like betrayed :idea:.......... just like,there should also be villain who tries to take over the world :lol:

[@kukac@]

or we could make the scenarios more campaign like:

1. there are you, 2 cpu ultra and a cpu. you will have to kill the cpu, while the 2 ultra defending it.

2. there will be you 2 cpu, and a cpu ultra. the cpu ultra have to kill all of you, and he will recive much more resources in the beginning.

i think these are more simpler this time, then make new campaigns.

[rudravishnu]

and to add more fun and twist,the cpu allies can turn against us if we do something offending like attacking their allies.....

[v.v.b.]

I'm terribly sorry, but what are we talking about?
 You're talking about SCENARIOs. And how to create SINGLE SCENARIO on "current day engine".
 And I'm talking about CAMPAIGN (isn't this a topic for it?)
 On single scenario you don't have to create characters, create universe with it's own rules and history.

 I'm not insist on creating campaign RIGHT NOW. I think that current Glest engine is not ready for this. I don't know if current map format allowing to put buildings, put units on map and so on. I think now there are only starting positions for players. And this starting positions indicating where "Castle/Mage tower" are locating. That's all.
 Having only this, you CANNOT create _interesting_ campaign.
 
 Personally, I have MANY ideas about heroes, campaign and maps. But if nobody is not interesting in CAMPAIGN ideas, there is nothing to talk about.

[RV-007]

I'm not a fan of campaigns or heroes, but I am willing to help for the game.

Campaigns could be based on the background story. Try something like the country rebellion against the big mean empire. There could be some dialogue cut scenes like the ones in the Star War movies (those are some long dialogues).

Another basic campaign is the concept of preserving tradition. In the game, a civil war of advancements ensues into the fight for progress or the preservance of traditional practices.

for the ones with the same faction, we can say there's a conflict between two professors in what circumstances are to be used in the STUDY. One wants to use it as an militant mean for an conquering empire, while the other seeks to teach learning nations some defense and benefits with the study. The colleagues will go about practicing their professor's belief, creating a conflict with other students of the same and opposing ideals with different goals.

 ? the maps will probably vary. We could have like 3 allied shared view bases are protecting the border line of the country's empire HQ. The player and their one ally will have to find a way to take on the 3 outposts with surprise and speed starting from the camp. At some important event like the destruction of the first base (no order) will trigger the empire to give the two enemy outposts some thousand coins or even send extra troops in hopes to defeat the player (after a short cutscene then back to the game).

[@kukac@]

I'm terribly sorry, but what are we talking about?
 You're talking about SCENARIOs. And how to create SINGLE SCENARIO on "current day engine".
 And I'm talking about CAMPAIGN (isn't this a topic for it?)
 On single scenario you don't have to create characters, create universe with it's own rules and history.

 I'm not insist on creating campaign RIGHT NOW. I think that current Glest engine is not ready for this. I don't know if current map format allowing to put buildings, put units on map and so on. I think now there are only starting positions for players. And this starting positions indicating where "Castle/Mage tower" are locating. That's all.
 Having only this, you CANNOT create _interesting_ campaign.
 
 Personally, I have MANY ideas about heroes, campaign and maps. But if nobody is not interesting in CAMPAIGN ideas, there is nothing to talk about.

look, the Glest currently not support campaigns. if you try to watch some other games, you will see that the campaigns are different scenarios after each other (there is an order on every map, to save the heroes, and load the next map, then load the heroes saved). you might try to make a campaign, without any knowledge. maybe it will working  

[divineauthority]

I'm terribly sorry, but what are we talking about?
 You're talking about SCENARIOs. And how to create SINGLE SCENARIO on "current day engine".
 And I'm talking about CAMPAIGN (isn't this a topic for it?)
 On single scenario you don't have to create characters, create universe with it's own rules and history.

 I'm not insist on creating campaign RIGHT NOW. I think that current Glest engine is not ready for this. I don't know if current map format allowing to put buildings, put units on map and so on. I think now there are only starting positions for players. And this starting positions indicating where "Castle/Mage tower" are locating. That's all.
 Having only this, you CANNOT create _interesting_ campaign.
 
 Personally, I have MANY ideas about heroes, campaign and maps. But if nobody is not interesting in CAMPAIGN ideas, there is nothing to talk about.

Hmm, you said about not being able to put buildings in but I think this is possible. On the object brush in the map editor there are 5 slots for custom objects. All you would need to do is model your own buildings...

Still whether the engine itself is capable of a campaign I don't know. It would need a lot of coding on the developer's part and I doubt they have the time.

Now if we ty and turn it into a community project I reckon it's possible. There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum. It's just whether they have the time and are willing to help. It does seem like there are 101 unfinished mods for this game.

[rudravishnu]

I'm terribly sorry, but what are we talking about?
 You're talking about SCENARIOs. And how to create SINGLE SCENARIO on "current day engine".
 And I'm talking about CAMPAIGN (isn't this a topic for it?)
 On single scenario you don't have to create characters, create universe with it's own rules and history.

 I'm not insist on creating campaign RIGHT NOW. I think that current Glest engine is not ready for this. I don't know if current map format allowing to put buildings, put units on map and so on. I think now there are only starting positions for players. And this starting positions indicating where "Castle/Mage tower" are locating. That's all.
 Having only this, you CANNOT create _interesting_ campaign.
 
 Personally, I have MANY ideas about heroes, campaign and maps. But if nobody is not interesting in CAMPAIGN ideas, there is nothing to talk about.

sorry about that,i was over exited about that,anyway i think you forgot you need hero's only in SCENARIOs  ?

[@kukac@]

I'm terribly sorry, but what are we talking about?
 You're talking about SCENARIOs. And how to create SINGLE SCENARIO on "current day engine".
 And I'm talking about CAMPAIGN (isn't this a topic for it?)
 On single scenario you don't have to create characters, create universe with it's own rules and history.

 I'm not insist on creating campaign RIGHT NOW. I think that current Glest engine is not ready for this. I don't know if current map format allowing to put buildings, put units on map and so on. I think now there are only starting positions for players. And this starting positions indicating where "Castle/Mage tower" are locating. That's all.
 Having only this, you CANNOT create _interesting_ campaign.
 
 Personally, I have MANY ideas about heroes, campaign and maps. But if nobody is not interesting in CAMPAIGN ideas, there is nothing to talk about.

Hmm, you said about not being able to put buildings in but I think this is possible. On the object brush in the map editor there are 5 slots for custom objects. All you would need to do is model your own buildings...

Still whether the engine itself is capable of a campaign I don't know. It would need a lot of coding on the developer's part and I doubt they have the time.

Now if we try and turn it into a community project I reckon it's possible. There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum. It's just whether they have the time and are willing to help. It does seem like there are 101 unfinished mods for this game.

the buildings you start with is in the techs\magitech\factions\tech/magic\, and in its name (XML), so it is possible to make a new faction (just copy, and change the original).

[v.v.b.]

And what about map editor?
Can I use it to create map with PREbuilded buildings on it?
Can I place here, say, blacksmith here?
And place several catapults, ornithopters and, say, 7 archers?
CAN this information BE stored NOW in current map format?

[@kukac@]

never tried it; but i think no.

im thinking, that the map editor could do it, of course there would be campaigns. but we are discussing it, how can we do it with the current features of Glest. i thought that there could be a "if win, then load map <nextmap>" or something like that.

[divineauthority]

And what about map editor?
Can I use it to create map with PREbuilded buildings on it?
Can I place here, say, blacksmith here?
And place several catapults, ornithopters and, say, 7 archers?
CAN this information BE stored NOW in current map format?

Ahh no, not as far as I'm aware. I took the previous comments to mean that they wanted buildings as part of the terrain, so you could have a little vilage in the map in something.

One long way around it, which would also mean a lot of hard drive space taken up, would be to have a seperate race for each mission. This is because in the file in the main faction folder you can set how many of each builing and unit you start with. A way possibly around this would be to have one of these files for each mission and then editing the Glest engine to use the specific file for each mission. For example:

Mission 3 say has a TechMission3.xml file. This would have that you have 1 castle, 1 barracks, 1 blacksmith etc. Glest would then use this file for Mission 3 instead of the usual tech.xml file.

[firedeathbot]

i am working on heroes and have been before this post i need help my site is www.freewebs.com/glestrts/

[Wolwen]

well, for now, it's possible to implement very simple campaings, something kindof a list of scenarios played after each other, like that that when win move to idea someone said before.

The code for a campaing.xml file should look like this:

<campaing>

            <scenario="X" order="1">
            .....
            <scenario="X" order="N">
</campaing>

where X is the scenario name, and N is the order when it appears, so a order 3 scenario would come after a order 1 scenario and so on, giving possibility for as much scenarios you want.

If this campaign idea is to be implemented, another interesting idea is to implement a savegame thing, so you may continue from where you stopped rather than from the beginning, and of course, enable it on custom games and scenarios as well    

[@kukac@]

The code for a campaing.xml file should look like this:

<campaing>

<scenario="X" order="1">
.....
<scenario="X" order="N">
</campaing>

now thats a good idea!  

[divineauthority]

The code for a campaing.xml file should look like this:

<campaing>

            <scenario="X" order="1">
            .....
            <scenario="X" order="N">
</campaing>

where X is the scenario name, and N is the order when it appears, so a order 3 scenario would come after a order 1 scenario and so on, giving possibility for as much scenarios you want.

It's just getting Glest to understand scenarios and as far as I'm aware it can't yet...

[Wolwen]

well, in fact, glest understand scenarios, if you're still doubty, check here:

http://www.glest.org/glest_board/viewtopic.php?t=1729

[divineauthority]

Ahh I hadn't noticed that  

Well it might work then, it's just we could do with the ability to already have specific buildings on the map already, like mentioned previously. I haven't had the chance to look into it yet. It's night here so I'm going to bed but I'll have a look tomorrow

[Wolwen]

Ahh I hadn't noticed that  

Well it might work then, it's just we could do with the ability to already have specific buildings on the map already, like mentioned previously. I haven't had the chance to look into it yet. It's night here so I'm going to bed but I'll have a look tomorrow

this specific building thing would be scenario programation, in fact any campaing you see in other games is just a series of complex scenarios that complement each other, giving a feel of a story

[thebigcheese]

I think there should two different campaigns a mission and a conquest.  The mission campaign you follow a story line and do objectives.  The conquest campaign you try to take over the world, like there are a couple of factions.  You start one settlement and try to increase your empire.  Like in Rome total war if you ever played.