New Faction: Science

[Silent]

Hello. My name is Silent and I like your game, Glest. Other gaming engines promised you the moon and, well, give you the dirt. You promise the moon, and you acutally give the moon.

In return, I decided to make a faction called "Science" to help Glest, because I noticed there was only one faction, "Human". I was inspired by the backstory of Glest, of the war between techongly and magic. Therefore, it makes perfect sense to include "Science" as this is what the war is about. I am a little confused at the first race being named "Human" and not "Magic" but all is well, I concluded, since "Science" could have advanced so much that it lost all its Humanity and became basic savages. Intellegent savages that can solve complex equations and cure world hunger and AIDS, but savages nevertheless. This is the faction that urusuped the properties of the Mages and tried to exterimante them because they couldn't explain Magic.

I used 2 days to try and make this faction, with success. I made new units, and a new tech tree. However, when I check the fourms, I found out you are already hard at work creating a new faction with a new tech tree. Still, you might be interested in this faction, and might want to consider. "Science" has an all-new tech tree, and all new units such as the Medic, the Reformed Initiante, the Knight, and the Spy.

The Problem is that my file is 15 MB large, 10 MB with winzip...and my computer's speed is 26.4 kbs. I also dont know your contact info, is it tariqali34-^-yahoo.com.

If you want to contact me with MSN: tariqali34-^-hotmail.com
AIM: Slientscope01 (You have to misspell Silent, it must be Slient.)
YAHOO: rafiq_a_2001

Again, please, reply asap.

Thanks,

Silent.

[enveloop]

Hi,

Thanks for your comments and for the effort in making the new faction ). Then you can choose which faction do you want each player to be.

I find it very interesting that you got to the conclusion that one of the races wasn´t human in a metaphorical way. I wouldn´t take the story as far as you do, at least in the "historical context" in which the game develops, which is something in between Middle Ages and Renaissance, with some licenses but retaining the aesthetics of the period. For instance, the tech faction will feature a robot unit, but it won´t look like an ultra- sophisticated Gundam- alike(1). Personally, I like the idea that both factions are still made from the same kind of people(2). This gives a hope that the battle will cease if they are able to understand that they are equal not matter the path or faction they took. The poem that I choosed as a preface to the story is somehow a prophecy, with this strange menction of "the Will". I´ll copy it again so that you don´t have to return to it:

Deep rests Science in the Mind
as Magic deep in the Heart;
Those on which the Will is strong,
Those will reign on Their behalf.
 

As you see, we are definitely using the story as inspiration; this will be clear from next version on, and in fact the intention is that if we develop the game more we have already a good, solid story to work with.

Martin-o already knows about your work, we will discuss soon the best method for you to send it to us.

-----

(1)or it could: the series "escaflowne" is a good example of cross- breeding technology and magic with the japanese mech- style.

(2)but not humans, I mean, in Glest everyone could develop magic skills...

[Silent]

From what you said about the factions, I think you misunderstood things a little. In the game, as long as choosing factions, you can choose how many computer- controlled opponents you want to play against. These are called "CPU", and you´re "Human" (or I hope so   Four factions are better than two, giving variety to the players, and allowing for different strageries. It is all up to you, and I think you might just want simplictiy of just two factions, but if you want, I can. I have the time, and I am done with the Science faction. A new project would be grand.

Maybe, if you are done with Glest, will you have online tournments, and maybe even campagins?

Again, thanks....


Silent

[enveloop]

What I mean by that is that there is only one faction in Glest. That faction, as you may recall, is named "Human".

Yes, you´re right. In fact, it was my fault that when I answered I was thinking on the newer versions we (developers) are using, and I apologize for that. In the version you currently have, the single faction available is still called human, and it´s got units both magic and technologic. To make things clear, the following version available will have a tech tree giving you the two split factions, magic and tech, instead of the current "human" one.
(sorry again)


 

I keep with the aesthetics of the period. I do not allow for any deviation from the Middle Ages.

I see... I made my comment because you talked about "a faction which could have advanced so much that it lost all its Humanity and became basic savages. Intellegent savages that can solve complex equations and cure world hunger and AIDS". This made me think that you were referring to a contemporary- style faction.

A leonardo- style helicopter would be a great thing, I´ll talk to Tucho about that.

As I see it, the battles are actually a way to find out who has the stronger Will. The Will is the valor in battle, and whoever that has that Will, that rush when you kill, will reign on "Their behalf", which could mean themselves (which could mean that both factions have enough valor and will contuine to rule themselves, keeping the war forever), or on all of Humanity (the latter interperation I favor) which means that whoever that win this war will rule all of Earth forever. If Magic wins the war, then no more Science. If Science wins the war, then Magic never existed, never happened.

... The Will could be either that or maybe a will to reunify the kingdom and govern in peace as things were before the war; the word "their" on "their behalf" could have the two meanings you say, or even could mean "on behalf of both magic and science". Maybe the poem itself could have been written intentionally without a fixed meaning; many prophecies are written in such a way, and controversies are made over them, sometimes this being the cause for wars as each faction interprets them in their own benefit.  

Sorry for worrying about a properchy that you made.

I really appreciate that you share your thoughts on this. For me the story is one of the most important things in a game because if it is well developed then it not only gives the game "a reason" but also makes it grow out of the boundaries of the gameplay itself. Your comments, or whatever your imagination adds to the game, becomes part of it in a subtle, yet powerful way.

But now that you say it, and even if I know you will be skeptical about this, there´s a story about the story of Glest... I like to visit old
bookstores here in Santiago from time to time, and one day I came across with this big lot of books... on the surface there was nothing special about them, the bookseller almost gave them for free; they were on bad condition, many pages unreadable, but sometimes I buy this kind of stuff, you never know... I didn´t really understand what I had bought until I returned home: from then on I have been gathering data and trying to make sense out of the scattered readable paragraphs. Then, I found Martin-o and when he told me about his game I thought that it could be a good opportunity to show it to the public as if it was a fiction... ), all these are things we´d like to do, but to do them well implies to start thinking on a real professional game, and that requires a company, which we are not, unfortunately. But what we do, we do it the best we can, that´s for sure.

Thanks again for your comments!

[enveloop]

I think it might be best that you become a company. There is a lot of profitablity here, and I see people buying by the hordes.

That´s much more easy to say than to do, unfortunately. We are four people and no matter how hard we work we can´t compete with a company employing ten times more people. Then, creating a company implies burocracy, managing salaries... Right now we are working on the game for free on our spare time, it is a completely different way of viewing things. Plus, since this is our first project as a group, it would be difficult to find support from big companies or even distribution. That´s how things are, it´s not that we don´t want to create a company, but I don´t think it will be possible in short term. However if someone brings the funds, we may reconsider this I´m more skeptical about shareware, I doubt people will pay anything and anyway we wouldn´t make money enough to make a living from it.

I have the free time, and not you. Of course, I really don't make the sounds, the texture, and the models. I just borrow them from the default Human race.

Yes, I think I´m missing something... when you say you "borrow the models" you mean that you actually change them to some extent or not? As far as I understand you created the framework for a faction, that is, the units and their xmls, then used our models and sounds for them. Am I right?

[Silent]

Yes, I think I´m missing something... when you say you "borrow the models" you mean that you actually change them to some extent or not? As far as I understand you created the framework for a faction, that is, the units and their xmls, then used our models and sounds for them. Am I right?

Yes, I make the Units and the Tech Tree, then use the models and the sounds to create the units. It is pretty easy actually. I don't change the models to any extent. I understand this is a lack in creativity, but I really don't want to focus my talents on making models and sounds. I want to focus my talents on making my units and xml. This is a much more better way of using your talents, no?

That´s much more easy to say than to do, unfortunately. We are four people and no matter how hard we work we can´t compete with a company employing ten times more people. Then, creating a company implies burocracy, managing salaries... Right now we are working on the game for free on our spare time, it is a completely different way of viewing things. Plus, since this is our first project as a group, it would be difficult to find support from big companies or even distribution. That´s how things are, it´s not that we don´t want to create a company, but I don´t think it will be possible in short term. However if someone brings the funds, we may reconsider this  I´m more skeptical about shareware, I doubt people will pay anything and anyway we wouldn´t make money enough to make a living from it.

That's true. At the very least, add some banner ads and affilates. There seems to be a lack of some here. Not that I want them or anything, but I think banner ads and affilates can generate some income, not enough to live from it, but still, enough to enjoy. Plus, have a "Donate" page so people can donate money. And, have you herad of indie game companies, where they work in a garage? You don't even need to compete with megacompanies all around the world! All you need to do is provide a good game at a low price. These megacompanies don't know of you, and won't care of you, caring of other megacompanies. In fact, only you will benfit, because you care about the customer, you care about the gamers, not those megacompanies, with CEOs that don't even knows the rules of Pac-Man!

There is a site where indie gamers submit their games to be sold. Since you already have a game, just slap a price tag on it, and wait. Of course, please don't let me pay.

www.garagegamers.com

It is a great site. You can even post Help Wanted Ads here if you want any help for your game.

You ARE already a company, just one who doesn't get a salary. Of course, it is always up to you.

Plus, shareware is actually a good idea. It was invented by the two Johns who made the game "Doom". In order to sell their games, they gave away free copies, and then asked people to give money to unlock the features. Conventional wisdom said only 1% of all who got free copies would pay, however, lots of checks came coming in, as the tempting features prove too much. Either Conventional Wisdom is wrong, or they sent their game to billions of people.

Remember, all up to you. In fact, it is best if you don't charge. It shows you are not a person who think of us as statsics. Then again, if people pay, it shows that it is more advanced than the run-of-the-mill freeware, which it is more than.
--------
Anyway, please reply back ASAP on how you like my tech tree for the faction Science. Also, when will the next verison comes out? What will be its verison number? 0.73? 0.8? 1.0? Thanks for looking at this message.

SILENT

[Silent]

First, I gave the wrong url. The correct url is:

www.garagegames.com

Secondly, is there any free sites on the internet where I can get textures and graphics and sounds? I will still not be creative, but I wish I know where to get free textures, graphics, and sounds, so I won't be redundant over and over. I understand they will be few, but maybe is there some 3d graphics sites that you can convert to g3d? Thanks....

Silent

Post Script: Please reply, ASAP.

[enveloop]

I am aware of the page you menction. Shareware may be an option in some cases and I don´t deny that, but that´s not the kind of business we are thinking on. I insist: right now we are four people making a game on our spare time, and that´s miles away from what a real company is. Now that some people have made comments about Starcraft in the forum, I suggest to take your time and watch the credits for that game. Martin-o and I did that two weeks ago and those keep running for minutes and more minutes, probably some ten minutes of line after line, not only programmers or artists but secretaries and marketing staff and even the guy bringing the coffee . For us, that´s a real company, or at least the company we have in mind. Both of us have had several discussions on the number of people needed to make the kind of game we want, that is, one that won´t be directly sold in the "cheap games" shelves: I believe that a company with not more of 30 skillful people should be enough as the development would be fluid and unnecessary burocracy derived from an oversized crew avoided; to that he answers that as games are constantly growing in quantity of what they offer, developing one of those necessarily implies a big crew. Anyway, any of these solutions involves seeking for professionals, paying salaries,
 taxes, seeking for contracts with distributors: Doom 3 won´t be shareware and by the time carmack was making the first wolfestein, I believe, he was working as a programmer for a company, thus earning his living from that. Again: surely shareware, banners, t-shirts, paypal, all that would give us some money, but the question is: enough to ensure that for two or three years of development everyone in the team would receive a decent salary, every month?

on how you like my tech tree for the faction Science

Well, since you use our models and sounds, which evidently we already have, I don´t understand why you say that the material you want to send us is that big, if it´s just a number of xml files: just put those on a zip file and send them to martin-o.

Also, when will the next verison comes out? What will be its verison number? 0.73? 0.8?

0.8, and it will come out when tucho finishes two new buildings; I still have to make a lot of work with the new sounds and music, and sound level balancing, but we will release it when tucho finishes that no matter how the sound is. 0.9 should be a finished but unpolished version, and by the beginning of september we must have v1.0 ready.

Secondly, is there any free sites on the internet where I can get textures and graphics and sounds?

Yes, many, just type "free sounds" or "free textures" in google... by the way, I made a comment on the difference between contributions to the game and the development of the game itself yesterday in another thread in this forum: please read it as I believe it´s important.

maybe is there some 3d graphics sites that you can convert to g3d?

With the exporter we provide you can convert models made with 3dsmax.

[Silent]

Well, since you use our models and sounds, which evidently we already have, I don´t understand why you say that the material you want to send us is that big, if it´s just a number of xml files: just put those on a zip file and send them to martin-o.

I did. I have already sent the XML files to martino. The problem is: he hasnt replied back. He just have to unzip those files.

Although we don´t disencourage any efforts and we appreciate advice, comments or help, we say: proceed at your own risk, specially now that we are still changing things. We will consider every suggestion and we will put the files we receive on our page as long as our bandwith allow us to, but we can´t ensure anything more. Also, a distinction is to be made between contributing extra stuff to the game -which everyone may do at any moment-, and working on the development of the game, which involves sustained and constant dedication, work quality, and geographical proximity.

I see. Very terrible indeed. I could wait until verison 1.0 or more when you are ready with the Mission Creator, I could make maps...and maybe even add a backstory, but that's all. Oh well. I guess I sort of contruibited by sending my xml tech tree, altough I do think it will be rejected enterilly. Then again, it is better than making suggestions, anyone can make a suggestion, but when you actually program that suggestion to show how it works, it means you are serious. Well, ok. I am deveasted, but I guess its ok. Besides, summer is almost over, and I need to worry on my studies. I have to do a book report.

For me the story is one of the most important things in a game because if it is well developed then it not only gives the game "a reason" but also makes it grow out of the boundaries of the gameplay itself. Your comments, or whatever your imagination adds to the game, becomes part of it in a subtle, yet powerful way.

Before I leave, I'll write a small backstory/fan fiction for Glest. I'll post it on the fourms ASAP. Adding a backstory would be a good idea, as it will help to expand the amount of campagins that can be done. Also, I think I know what that "Will" is! I'll post it in the thread with my backstory as an appenidenx. It is the most I can do to help make Glest better.

Thanks From the Deep Reaches of My Soul,

Silent

[enveloop]

I have already sent the XML files to martino.

Ok. I thought you hadn´t because you insisted a lot on asking how to send them. Martin-o is about to read his "end of career" project in a few days, so pardon him if he´s not thinking on anything else. I´ll ask him to give us (tucho and I) the files so that we can study them.

Very terrible indeed. I could wait until verison 1.0 or more when you are ready with the Mission Creator, I could make maps

I´m thankful for your efforts, but I thought I should explain clearly how things are to avoid any confusion. Martin-o has devoted already three years of his time to this; I have been working for a year and a half now, and tucho for about a year. We meet every week at least once, discuss everything for hours, even argue sometimes, all this week over week for months. As I said, your suggestions will always be discussed and the material published in our page, but being a developer implies a serious commitment and a lot of work. For instance, when zanni offered his help he first gave us a direction to see his previous works; then, he made the entire webpage, not before spending some weeks discussing with us every detail of it, not before several sketches, each of those taking him days of work; then he made the layout for this forum and right now he´s going to spend his holidays in another country, to where he´s taking a cd with all the material so that he can finish there the icons for the interface... he doesn´t live near our city, but it´s obvious that he´s become a developer on his own right.

I guess I sort of contruibited by sending my xml tech tree, altough I do think it will be rejected enterilly

We will read it, publish it for other people to download and if there are things that we can take from it, we will add them to the game.

Adding a backstory would be a good idea, as it will help to expand the amount of campagins that can be done. Also, I think I know what that "Will" is! I'll post it in the thread with my backstory as an appenidenx. It is the most I can do to help make Glest better.

 

Thanks, I´d look forward to reading it.

[Silent]

I´m thankful for your efforts, but I thought I should explain clearly how things are to avoid any confusion. Martin-o has devoted already three years of his time to this; I have been working for a year and a half now, and tucho for about a year. We meet every week at least once, discuss everything for hours, even argue sometimes, all this week over week for months. As I said, your suggestions will always be discussed and the material published in our page, but being a developer implies a serious commitment and a lot of work. For instance, when zanni offered his help he first gave us a direction to see his previous works; then, he made the entire webpage, not before spending some weeks discussing with us every detail of it, not before several sketches, each of those taking him days of work; then he made the layout for this forum and right now he´s going to spend his holidays in another country, to where he´s taking a cd with all the material so that he can finish there the icons for the interface... he doesn´t live near our city, but it´s obvious that he´s become a developer on his own right.

I can just be a regural submitter, I guess. Prehaps too reguarl, but still, a reguarl. I hope there is a Campagin editor very soon. Then, I would be submitting lots of campagins for Glest. I could be a devolper in all but name. Devolping campagins and Missions, and submitting them, but not handling the messy work of the game engine.

We will read it, publish it for other people to download and if there are things that we can take from it, we will add them to the game.

Ok. But, please note that it will take some time to convert the XML files to a real faction, as even so I use the same graphics, I rearranged them and deleted some units seeing them as useless. But, ok, and thanks.

Thanks, I´d look forward to reading it.

You are welcome, very welcome.

[Tununias]

It took me forever to get this faction to load. I finally figured out that there was a bunch of capital letters in the file names.

[Zoythrus]

It took me forever to get this faction to load. I finally figured out that there was a bunch of capital letters in the file names.

dude, this mod has been dead for like 3 years. please dont resurrect threads that are over 7 years old....