Poll

Would you enjoy these units in Glest?

Yes, sounds great!
16 (64%)
Yes, but certain parts were pretty stupid.
7 (28%)
No, that's the stupidest idea that I've ever heard.
1 (4%)
No, but some parts sounded good.
1 (4%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closed: 28 December 2007, 10:17:45

Author Topic: Idea for New Units  (Read 23027 times)

orion

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« Reply #25 on: 25 January 2008, 23:32:33 »
Hey guys
I want to help and become a part of this project because I really like the idea of 4 paths in Magitech (Maybe in the future there could be more paths).

Anyway, I'm a web designer/java programmer (I have designed 6 websites for various companies) and I would like to make a homepage for this project instead of using the wiki. What do you think?

I support this 100%.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by orion »

daniel.santos

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« Reply #26 on: 26 January 2008, 04:03:37 »
w00t! welcome :)  Are you on windows, Linux or Mac?  If Linux, which one (or mostly, is it 32 or 64 bit)?  I have a code mod for implementing the temporary effects we're using is mainly why I'm asking.  I'm on Linux (amd64) and it would be nice if I somebody who had MSVC could compile glest with the effects patches for windows.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by daniel.santos »

Speedator

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« Reply #27 on: 26 January 2008, 15:48:32 »
What's wrong with the wiki?
The wiki is what it is: a wiki.
As you probably know there is also  a hompage.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by Speedator »

orion

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« Reply #28 on: 27 January 2008, 01:08:49 »
Sorry, daniel.santos. I'm using windows currently

Speedator, I know there is a wiki out, but I just thought maybe you guys would need a professional web/java developer for this growing project. I understand if you guys don't want me to make one.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by orion »

wciow

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« Reply #29 on: 29 January 2008, 00:00:29 »
Hi Orion, thanks for the support, a website for the mod would be cool.

Heres a shot of the Holy Warrior unit for the path of enlightenment:



In the game the cloak will be 50% alpha so it will be team-coloured.

Other units are coming on nicely, I've almost finished the lich (90%) and I've started work on the monk and necromancer units. I've also started planning how I want the units for the path of nature to look as I've had a few nice ideas :)

EDIT: I did a bit more work on the lich and though it was probably worth posting a shot so people can get an idea of what it looks like.



It just needs a little bit of tweaking in the mesh. The entrails at the bottom need to be rounded for example and I also want to put an embossed skull on the chest area which is empty at the moment!
« Last Edit: 13 April 2016, 17:43:46 by filux »
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tucho

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« Reply #30 on: 29 January 2008, 09:19:38 »
good work wciow, this models looks cool :), Did you put them in game? some screenshots?
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by tucho »

daniel.santos

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« Reply #31 on: 29 January 2008, 09:48:44 »
wciow, that's pretty damn cool :)  I have a server, but it doesn't seem like I've gotten around to putting something up.  Wiki is great for community development because everybody can go in and make their edits, post comments, etc.  That's what I like about it -- it's a very powerful collaboration tool.  I haven't updated the Four Path Magitech page in the last few days because I've been using the time I have to hammer out all of the code modifications.  I've also been playing with the various values quite a bit so I'll eventually (probably next week) go back to this page and plug in the values that I'm playing with at the moment.

I'm probably going to at least setup a subversion repository for my patches and the project files (models, xml files, etc).  My code mods aren't stable at the moment, but I put up a page for the docs/specification here https://docs.megaglest.org/Effects_&_upgrades.  I find that having such docs helps on a number of levels, even if just helping me to clarify the contract of the code to myself.  I ended up gutting some of my code and the original Glest code to unify the way that it manages the data for unit types, upgrades and effects (they all have a common base class now).  I hope it isn't seen as provocative (making big mods to somebody else's code), but I saw an opportunity to implement what I was wanting to add in a much cleaner way.

So anyway, I gave upgrades all of the new possibilities that I created for temporary effects.  What's next on my list with this is to sew it all up and get it shared so I can start (hopefully) getting feedback on it.  After that, I have to start looking into how to implement these:
  • I'm adding an optional "I'm being attacked" and "I spotted an enemy" notification to the faction.xml files.  These consist of a sound file, a min delay between notifications and a boolean on/off option.  It will only notify you if the event occurs off of the current screen's view.
  • The Lich ability to control other units and have that control relinquished if they die.
  • The feature of necromancer pets where they decay if too far from their masters/creators and they die if their master dies.
  • Adding forest as a field of travel, thus enabling the Path of Nature upgrades to allow units to travel through trees (if everybody is still on board with that idea).
A few opinion questions now:
I've been playing around with the Lich spells and they are pretty cool so far, but they'll have to be weakened (from what I have now) when I implement the ability for them to control other players.  I decided that their "Withering Despair" ability should be lower damage, but slow the opponents movement speed.  Any objections?

I'm not sure that "festering wound" is a good name for the Lich's stealing life attack (where it damages others and regenerates the Lich).  Further, I thought it would be a cool name for the attack that the undead behemoth gets -- he is a nasty, unclean zombie-ish unit after all.  My thought was that on every attack, the undead behemoth would have a chance (25%-ish) of inflicting their target with an effect called Festering Wound that would lower their armor by 25 points and cause them to loose 25-ish points per tick for 10 seconds.  The damage component is low, but it stacks, so each time the effect goes off, there is an additional -25 armor and -25 per second.  This would keep the "undead behemoth" (and we'll need a new name for that unit since they renamed "daemon giant" to "behemoth" recently) a useful heavy-offensive unit, not competing with the more strongly defensive "behemoth" unit.  It also makes having multiple unit types more effective, since they each bring to the battle unique abilities.  Thus, the -25 armor would often end up being more destructive when there are other units attacking.  The only other thing I was wondering is about giving it a small splash-radius and setting the effect up as foe-only so friendlies don't get effected.

One final thought:  I was thinking it would be cool if a scripting interface were added to the engine.  This way, some of these one-off rules, like minions dying when the necromancer dies, could be implemented in a script rather than changing the code. I don't have much experience implementing such scripts, and it would require a lot of C++ code to interface the namespace of the scripting language to the core C++ classes, but it could make Glest the most incredible RTS engine anywhere.  My initial thought was JavaScript, because it's commonly known, but then I thought that whatever is used, is should probably be compilable to keep execution times low and also not Java (as much as I love Java) because it eats so much memory and Glest runs well on cheap computers.  Either way, the scripting could be embedded directly in the XML files in the body of a <script> tag (just like in html).  I just think that an interface like that would just top it off and make the Glest engine a no-brainer for anybody wanting to make an open source RTS.

Again, the Glest source code is some of the most well written code I've worked with in a while, it makes modding it really easy.
« Last Edit: 18 June 2016, 14:27:02 by filux »

Speedator

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« Reply #32 on: 29 January 2008, 12:49:39 »
orion: I maybe missunderstood this: You talk about a website for his mod only, ok.  My fault ;)
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by Speedator »

orion

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« Reply #33 on: 29 January 2008, 16:04:09 »
It's okay Speedator.
I'm not making a website for Glest in General; I'm just making it for this project. A website for all glest mods would be quite time consuming which is something I can't afford at the moment.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by orion »

Duke

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« Reply #34 on: 29 January 2008, 16:45:02 »
I realy like this conzept and the models are well made.

Although I'd have to get used to that Lich. It has a very unusual design.
To be honest if I'd see such a being not knowing what it is supposed to be, I wouldn't guess it to be a Lich.
Lichs are commonly described as Skeletons in black hooded Robes.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by Duke »

daniel.santos

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« Reply #35 on: 29 January 2008, 23:53:14 »
A Lich can be fleshy, but I agree with the black hooded robe part.  I don't understand how the team color layer works in the skins, but maybe the team color can be some design on the back of the hood or something (I dunno really).  I actually like the levitation and the little tendrils hanging down, that looks cool!  He should also probably be skinnier and more frail of body.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by daniel.santos »

hailstone

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« Reply #36 on: 30 January 2008, 01:36:57 »
Great work everyone.

@Daniel:
I think scripting would be good also and have previously gathered learning resources. There are lots of languages that are possible (eg. python, perl, lua, gamemonkey, ruby) but lua seems to be the popular one for games.
Code: [Select]
[url=http://spring.clan-sy.com/]TASpring[/url] uses Lua for GUI,
Code: [Select]
[url=http://antargis.berlios.de/]Battles of Antargis[/url] uses ruby for gameplay.

A short discussion for Lua over Python.
Code: [Select]
[url=http://www.gamedev.net/reference/list.asp?categoryid=76]Articles for scripting languages[/url]
I looked on the Effects_&_upgrades page and saw "../../../../placeholders/icon.bmp" kind of path. Would it be better to have something like "%tech_root%/placeholders/icon.bmp"?
« Last Edit: 13 April 2016, 17:46:03 by filux »
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wciow

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« Reply #37 on: 30 January 2008, 17:16:42 »
Thanks for the feedback on the models! I will change the lich so that it has a proper hooded cloak and make it a bit more skeletal. I thought about makeing the cloak black but I think that to fit in better with existing units in glest style it has to be a bit more colourful.

In general the first phase of modeling is nearing an end. With only 3 models left to complete (monk,necromancer,white knight) for the original two paths (corruption/enlightenment). The next stage will be a process of review which involves posting all the model pics taking feedback and then going back through all the models and tidying them up/improving them.

As for scripting I think that we should try to implement as much changes as possible into the XML system. This makes it nice and easy for non-coders to understand.

If I had to vote for a script language though I would go for Python as that is the only one I know! However, Lua might be better as it seems to be the language of choice for modders and game devs. The Lua vs Python vs Ruby debate is already active in alot of sites on the net :O
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by wciow »
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daniel.santos

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« Reply #38 on: 4 February 2008, 13:18:49 »
Sorry I haven't posted in a while, I was getting killed at work with overtime. :)  I'm thinking that we would get the most bang for our buck by using what more gamers are familiar with.  I don't know anything about Lua, but I'll read up on it later.  I'm trying to get the part I've bitten off chewed and swallowed before I take on another extension, but I'll definitely read your links later.  Also, the "../../../../placeholders/icon.bmp" thing is just where I had some placeholder images, sounds and models for our new units to help me keep track of what is and isn't done.  That image looks like other buttons from glest, except that is has a smiley face on it instead, hard to miss. :)

For the graveyard, I think I would like for it to be 4x4 tiles wide.  This would make it the largest building in the Magic faction, with the mage guild being 3x3.  However, the on the tech faction, their barracks is 4x4 and their castle is 5x5.  The cellmap tells the engine which tiles of a building you can walk through and which you can't.  I was thinking of something like the following cell map:
1101
0001
1000
1011
Lots of space that you can walk through, but varied entrances.  I'm by no means set on this, just tossing out the idea.  The necromancer tower is going to be solid 2x2, just like the archmage tower.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by daniel.santos »

daniel.santos

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« Reply #39 on: 5 February 2008, 08:57:25 »
d00000d!  I finally finished setting up my server.  I put up a repository for extmagitech, you'll need subversion.  I'm not sure what interface they have for windows.  On windows, I usually use Cygwin.  I'm going to email you our username & password.  Anyone can check it out using subversion like this:

Code: [Select]
svn co https://glest.codemonger.org/svn/repos/extmagitech
But you need a username & password so you can make changes and commits  :)

Daniel
« Last Edit: 13 April 2016, 17:46:50 by filux »

wciow

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« Reply #40 on: 5 February 2008, 10:42:38 »
Nice work I'll go check it out!

I'll upload all my stuff so far so that people can see all of the models in blender or g3d veiwer.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by wciow »
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wciow

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« Reply #41 on: 8 February 2008, 18:11:34 »
Heres another update on the progress!

Firstly, the new necromancer model:



Secondly, some shots of the models in Glest:





Any feedback on the the models is appreciated :)
« Last Edit: 13 April 2016, 17:47:15 by filux »
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Duke

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« Reply #42 on: 8 February 2008, 21:36:33 »
Ah its comming along nicely.

Skeleton: Nice idea to hide the rips in armour, saves a lot of polys.

Necro: I like him the most, although I'm not sure where he's hiding the rest of that 750 polys (;

Anyway it doesn't realy matter for both. In case you don't now: the original models are more then 4 years old. You don't necessarily have to keep em that low poly. (although its nice for my notebook (; )
Someone said between 1 and 1,5k would still be a good value, even 2k for the more rare units.

Behemoth: round feet look strange, otherwise: a bit small perhaps?

The Lich again: I know you haven't worked on him, but I wanted to give some further comment.

The general Lich is a Necromancer that simply refused to die properly.

In that definition the armour doesn't quite fit in. But I Like the floating corpse.

I would see him as an upgrade, maybe one that's actually activated uppon death? with some rather low chance, so that players won't just suicide Necros.

And finally about team colors:
How about some runes on the Wizards robes? this gives the opportunity to make them mostly dark, but still have differtiable colors.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by Duke »

daniel.santos

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« Reply #43 on: 9 February 2008, 23:15:22 »
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by daniel.santos »

wciow

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« Reply #44 on: 10 February 2008, 15:43:45 »
Thanks for the comments! Having looked at all those pictures of lich's I have to agree that mine simply isn't 'lichy' enough. I'm probably going to scrap it and start over with something more skeletal and evil looking.

Looking at the tattered robes on the lichs reminds me of one of the problems in Glest. On game models it is usually easy to add more detail (such as the robes) by using the alpha channel to make a portion of a flat plane invisible. However in glest the alpha channel is used for team colour so this isn't possible.

As for the polycount issue I having been thinking about testing the glest engine to see just how much it can handle on a modern mid-range-ish system. For now I am keeping the polycounts similar to the original glest models but in future I may increase them into the 1k+ range.

Also I think the behemoth should be renamed as zombie giant but thats just an idea :)
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by wciow »
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Duke

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« Reply #45 on: 10 February 2008, 18:35:32 »
This can be optained by splitting the mesh in severel objects, seperating the areas with team color from those with real transparency.

In Blender you can switch the mode used on an oject by switching between single and double sided render.

don't know in 3dsmax.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by Duke »

daniel.santos

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« Reply #46 on: 10 February 2008, 19:45:57 »
zombie giant it is then :) Once we get to a good stable point, we're going to have to test all of the network play to make sure that the mods I made didn't break any of the netplay stuff.

But back to emanations, this is also what I would like to do with druids -- I want druids to upgrade to a point of emanating a regeneration effect.  I don't have it integrated into upgrades and effects yet however (so either an upgrade or an effect can add an emanation).  This could also add quite a bit of new possibilities as well like the path of nature summoning a flame golum that damages all units surrounding it with fire damage for as long as they are near (scaled like splash damage).  This could be a short-lived unit, that you summon and get away from, or as a good means to weaken an oncoming attack.  An Abby its self could be a place of healing (units regenerate when near).  This will allow the Path of Reason to have captains (or whatever we call them) that increase the combat stats of units near them due to their leadership.  And it might even be possible to use this as a means of spreading diseases (yuck!) since an emanation is a subclass of an effect and effects have a "chance" field which is a percentage chance that the effect will take.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by daniel.santos »

wciow

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« Reply #47 on: 12 February 2008, 21:28:08 »
Seems like your coding is coming along nicely Daniel :(
The new mutiplayer beta also breaks my Glest right now so I'm stuck on 3.0.0.

Thanks for the tip on transparency Duke!

Here are some pics the new Lich (I included a second pic taken from g3d viewer to show the transparency on the unit) :





I have started animating the first unit (Zombie giant) but the results are far from impressive at the moment. It will take a while before I have anything worth showing.
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orion

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« Reply #48 on: 12 February 2008, 23:27:54 »
Quote
I wish the patch could work on windows Sad
The new mutiplayer beta also breaks my Glest right now so I'm stuck on 3.0.0.


I may have misunderstood something, but are you saying that this amazing new project will not be available for windows players?!!
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by orion »

daniel.santos

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« Reply #49 on: 12 February 2008, 23:44:23 »
awesome wciow!  Looks *** awesome! :)  It's a bit of a side-track, but it's needed so badly that I couldn't help myself.  Hopefully, that one will be simple enough that I can submit it to Marino and he will merge that into the mainline.  Pretty much though, it looks like we're going to create a fork for the mods to the engine.  We still need a name for it.  Another goofy thought: "Extra Glestrial" LMAO!

I modified the <skill> class for producing units (the class Game::Glest::ProduceSkillType) so that it looks for a <pet> tag in the body of the <skill> node.  The pet tag specifies value="true|false" a maximum number of pets of that type that you can have.  When this is present, units produced using that skill will be created as pets, linked to their creator.  At the moment, this causes them to attack the same location as their owner and die when their owner dies.  It's pretty limited and restrictive for now, but it'll be improved as we go.  Pets actually go into the "Guard" skill (guarding their owner) instead of the stop skill now when they run out of other actions, but the Guard skill doesn't do anything yet.  This implementation is also screwy because you have to have a separate produce skill for each different type of unit that can be made as a pet.  I'm currently allowing a single necromancer to have up to 4 skeletons and 1 zombie giant.  This will be easy to tweak later as we figure out what works best.
« Last Edit: 1 January 1970, 00:00:00 by daniel.santos »