Author Topic: Four Path Magitech  (Read 92720 times)

Ayrin Greenflag

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #200 on: 27 October 2008, 10:05:30 »
I downloaded FPM and i saw some new units.... gosh...still in development i guess...the skeletal warrior and some other unit are really....ugly...or i'm wrong? (the skeleton die is nice animation instead)

wciow

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #201 on: 27 October 2008, 13:51:39 »
Yes you are right that FPM is still a massive construction site. In terms of total completeness its probly less than 20% . [Are you sure that v0.1.9 is less than 20%? People may become mad, when after the v0.9.9 the v0.10.0 will come :lol: but that was my very first attempt at animating in blender. Also the only current animation I'm planning on keeping is the skeletons death animation.

I don't mind criticism at all but please try to be a little more constructive than 'it looks ugly'. If you want to help improve it you are welcome. All the .blend files are
in the FPM repository at https://glest.codemonger.org/svn/repos/ ... h_magitech
Check out my new Goblin faction - https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=9658.0

Ayrin Greenflag

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #202 on: 27 October 2008, 15:36:19 »
oh...i will help but i use 3ds and seems there is some problem converting models from 1 to other... (i made some attempt and the conversion loos some ploy..i think it happens only with planes but not sure) anyway i have a skeleton and i'll try to use it with a biped for animating.
Some other model look like a beta version there are no animations for that so i will wait for your further development ;) lol

ZaggyDad

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #203 on: 27 October 2008, 15:43:08 »
Quote from: "gameboy"
I was wondering if you could first have a spray of arrows then the archer reloads and then another spray of arrows, so it'll be like all the arrows cause say a minimum 8 damage so if you're firing 10, you get an overall damage of say 80-90. It could work like this the archer(crossbow) has an attack rate of 10 bolts per second but takes 2 seconds to reload, so the energy points could be 100 and a re-gen of 50 and each attack would cost 10 energy and fire at a speed of .1 second so in one second you have an attack and in 2 seconds he can get his energy back.

...Naw. That should be some sort of special unit if it exists at all. Perhaps it might be good for a Chinese faction, but not with crossbowmen. I don't think anybody except the Chinese even knew how to do it.

@kukac@

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #204 on: 27 October 2008, 17:07:36 »
Europeans? They used crossbow in their wars too. (The time difference is an another thing, especially since it's a fantasy game :P )

ZaggyDad

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #205 on: 27 October 2008, 17:57:29 »
No, I mean the Chinese are the only people who knew how to make crossbows that automatically reloaded.

daniel.santos

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #206 on: 28 October 2008, 01:55:26 »
Quote from: "gameboy"
I was wondering if you could first have a spray of arrows then the archer reloads and then another spray of arrows, so it'll be like all the arrows cause say a minimum 8 damage so if you're firing 10, you get an overall damage of say 80-90. It could work like this the archer(crossbow) has an attack rate of 10 bolts per second but takes 2 seconds to reload, so the energy points could be 100 and a re-gen of 50 and each attack would cost 10 energy and fire at a speed of .1 second so in one second you have an attack and in 2 seconds he can get his energy back.

Even if it was appealing to make an attack like that from a storyline/believability standpoint, the engine currently doesn't support firing missile attacks that are not aimed directly at the target -- something I do intend to introduce eventually.  In reality, archers, gunman, snipers, etc do miss their targets.  The only reason you can miss in Glest is if the target it moving because attackers never attempt to lead their target (i.e., fire where they believe the target will be once their missile attack spans the distance between them).

gameboy

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #207 on: 28 October 2008, 04:08:56 »
I was just thinking, that whenever an acolyte dies he turns into a shade and is no longer a pet of the priestess, he could have the ability to suck the souls of enemies or allies alike to gain more power.

@kukac@

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #208 on: 28 October 2008, 08:46:36 »
Quote from: "ZaggyDad"
No, I mean the Chinese are the only people who knew how to make crossbows that automatically reloaded.

Their crossbow didn't reloaded automatically either. What you thinking was the repeating shot, which allowed them to shoot 6-7 after each other. Then they needed to reload too.

Ayrin Greenflag

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #209 on: 29 October 2008, 10:57:36 »
do u know that crossbow was the only weapon put outlaw by the church coz it was too evil...after all it turn unusefull all armors coz it was able to pass trough them [Yes, it wasn't really an ethic weapon, since a 120 year old man could shoot down a full armoured knight with a lousy crossbow... - @kukac@]

modman

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #210 on: 29 October 2008, 20:41:53 »
Quote from: "Ayrin Greenflag"
a 120 year old man could shoot down a full armoured knight with a lousy crossbow... - @kukac@

=)

Maybe, but he wouldn't have been able to reload it; it would crack his bones in half!  He'd need an arbalest or some kind of mechanical advantage.
« Last Edit: 31 October 2008, 17:50:27 by modman »

Ayrin Greenflag

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #211 on: 30 October 2008, 10:56:04 »
ehy someone edited my post...what kind of magic is that?

modman

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #212 on: 31 October 2008, 17:54:36 »
Quote from: "gameboy"
I was just thinking, that whenever an acolyte dies he turns into a shade and is no longer a pet of the priestess, he could have the ability to suck the souls of enemies or allies alike to gain more power.

That is a whole different thing. You cannot make something spawn from something else when it dies.  That would be cool though.

The other thing is the transferrance of HP from one unit to another...not possible as far as I know (although I don't consider myself a GAE expert.  I just read the Glest wiki).

hailstone

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #213 on: 31 October 2008, 23:03:04 »
I don't think it is possible at the moment too. Another idea: Perhaps a unit that needs to take hp from other units to stay alive - parasite?
Glest Advanced Engine - Admin/Programmer
https://sourceforge.net/projects/glestae/

daniel.santos

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #214 on: 1 November 2008, 08:14:25 »
Quote from: "gameboy"
I was just thinking, that whenever an acolyte dies he turns into a shade and is no longer a pet of the priestess, he could have the ability to suck the souls of enemies or allies alike to gain more power.
Yea, I don't think you are getting a good idea of the type of faction the path of enlightenment is supposed to be.  First off, acolytes are female and, as I envision it, only the priestess' are revered more in their religion (this is a matriarchal society, not a patriarchal one as almost all modern cultures on Earth are today).  I was considering giving them the same armor as the priestess in fact, but with less hit points ("divine" is currently the most powerful armor in FPM, taking only 50% damage from piercing, slashing and impact and 75% from disease, fire & cold, but 125% from energy).  These aren't the types of people you would find overtly "sucking the soul" from their enemies, that's the path of corruption.  The acolyte is supposed to be an essentially "harmless" unit, in that they cannot attack, but are beneficial in other ways.  That's the strategy part -- if every unit could attack, it would be boring.  But by increasing the powers of the priestess (+damage +targets hit) and giving her the mana regeneration to attack twice as quickly as before, they become very useful.  Add to that the ability to spy and I think we have a good unit.  That's my view on it.

Quote from: "modman"
The other thing is the transferrance of HP from one unit to another...not possible as far as I know (although I don't consider myself a GAE expert.  I just read the Glest wiki).
There are actually a few mechanisms.  In fact, that is precisely what the necromancer, Lich, skeleton, zombie and ghost armor do now with their attacks.  Unfortunately, the wikia is out of date, I'll try to get in there soon and update it.  Each of the previously listed units drain life via their attacks.  Here is the necromancer's soul puncture attack skill (abbreviated):
Code: [Select]
<skill>
<type value="attack"/>
<name value="soul_puncture_skill"/>
<ep-cost value="100"/>
.
.
<attack-strenght value="95"/>
<attack-var value="20"/>
<attack-percent-stolen value="85" var="15"/>
.
.
</skill>
The <attack-percent-stolen value="85" var="15"/> tag means that between 70% and 100% of the attack damage dealt will heal the attacker.

The Lich's soul steal, the most powerful life drain attack in FPM thus far (and it should remain the most powerful IMO) actually works by two different mechanisms, the normal attack damage and the effect.  Each effect can have a recourse.  The recourse is an effect that affects the originator of the original effect (say that 3 times fast!).  Also notice that the soul_steal_recourse effect below passes the <recourse-ends-with-target/> to the <flags>.  This tells the engine that if the original effect expires early, because it was removed (dispelled) or because the unit died, then the recourse effect ends.  This enforces the actual contract that the effect is supposed to be stealing the life from the other unit.  For the lich, their movement speed is also decreased by 20% for each unit they are draining life from -- this is a minor balancing issue and when a lich hits 4 enemy units with soul steal, they usually don't have to worry about taking any damage unless it's enough to kill them in one shot (like from the priestess).
Code: [Select]
<effects>
<effect name="soul_steal"
bias="detrimental"
stacking="stack"
target="foe"
chance="100.0"
duration="10"
damage-type="energy">
<static-modifiers>
<hp-regeneration value="-100"/>
<max-hp value="-25"/>
</static-modifiers>
<flags>
<apply-splash-strength/>
</flags>
<recourse-effects>
<effect name="soul_steal_recourse"
bias="beneficial"
stacking="stack"
target="ally"
chance="100.0"
duration="10">
<static-modifiers>
<hp-regeneration value="100"/>
</static-modifiers>
<multipliers>
<move-speed value="0.80"/>
</multipliers>
<flags>
<recourse-ends-with-target/>
</flags>
<recourse-effects/>
</effect>
</recourse-effects>
</effect>
</effects>
EDIT: I forgot to mention that part of why it's the most powerful is that it will affect every unit within a radius of 8 spaces, although the intensity will be halved for every space away from the center the other units are.  So if there are 3 units all next to each other and the lich hits the middle unit, it will drain him for 100 hp/second and the other two for 50 each, bringing the total to 200 hit points per second, for 10 seconds, for a grand total of 2000 hit points of damage done & healing to the lich.  Toss in withering despair and a pet skeleton or two to hold up your opponents and it's easy to see why they are such mean bastards.

But one final note on the various factions & their themes; reason and corruption are patriarchal where as nature and enlightenment are matriarchal.  While RTS games are going to appeal more to males than females, just because they are war strategy games and that's more of a male mode of thinking, I still like to keep design as gender inclusive as possible.  The more females we have playing video games, the less girlfriend's we'll have being annoyed when we're playing them! :)

modman

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #215 on: 2 November 2008, 07:09:02 »
Somehow, I don't see any really strong units coming from the Tech side that really hold true to the Tech "feel".  Stronger units in Tech all have one thing in common: they're machines.  Except for the horseman. But that's irrelevant considering you're probably not going to think of an authentic non-machine strong unit.  So stick to machines. =]

And machines are easier to think of than you think.  But they're harder to make them look good.  Look here, but you'll be disapointed because Taran deleted them.

daniel.santos

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #216 on: 2 November 2008, 08:08:45 »
Yea, well this mod is diverging from the "tech" theme.  The existing Glest "tech" theme involves quite technologically unrealistic units, like a man powered flying machine (yea, I know NASA achieved this in the 70s, but it was more of an athletic achievement than technological, IMHO) and robots made of wood.  'm personally not a big fan of technodrome-related units because they require a lot of stretching of the imagination.

What I see the FPM base factions as is more of a culture based upon magic vs one that is not.  The path of enlightenment only gains "magical" powers because they are bestowed upon them by their deity(ies), but the path of reason will follow the more traditional path that human warfare has followed in Earth's history.  I don't mind lighter-than-air type of flying units, because that's a more realistic achievement for a medieval era society, but a human powered  ornithopter is just unrealistic, especially if it's powered by one's arm muscles and not their leg muscles. [The magic is quite realistic, isn't it?  :P - @kukac@]

Sorry, I hope I don't offend anybody, but that's my feelings and my opinion and I don't ask anybody else to agree with it.

wciow

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #217 on: 2 November 2008, 22:25:41 »
Quote from: "daniel.santos"
What I see the FPM base factions as is more of a culture based upon magic vs one that is not.  The path of enlightenment only gains "magical" powers because they are bestowed upon them by their deity(ies),  

Well said, the tech based faction should not be using magical powers. Both tech extensions (enlightenment/reason) are not fleshed out as well as the magic side yet. The corruption side is more or less complete in terms of unit planning and the nature side is getting there.
Check out my new Goblin faction - https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=9658.0

Ayrin Greenflag

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #218 on: 29 November 2008, 11:56:41 »
hi guys, i've a skeleton...yes i know everybody has one...no i mean 3d skeleton, someone is interested in animating it? i would like someone apply a biped system so changes are more easy for me :)
let me know

wciow

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #219 on: 29 November 2008, 14:48:41 »
I already have a rigged skeleton with an animation set. I made it for my dwarves faction but I plan to use it to redo all the FPM animations.

If you post your .blend file I can take a look and maybe make a simple walk cycle for you. The best people to ask are Titi and Zaggydad since they are both better animators.
Check out my new Goblin faction - https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=9658.0

Platyhelminth

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #220 on: 29 November 2008, 17:38:41 »
Hi,

  Several time before I posted this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3675

   Do you think you can modify the battle machine like I proposed ?

gameboy

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #221 on: 30 November 2008, 17:02:26 »
Quote from: "daniel.santos"
Yea, well this mod is diverging from the "tech" theme.  The existing Glest "tech" theme involves quite technologically unrealistic units, like a man powered flying machine (yea, I know NASA achieved this in the 70s, but it was more of an athletic achievement than technological, IMHO) and robots made of wood.  'm personally not a big fan of technodrome-related units because they require a lot of stretching of the imagination.

What I see the FPM base factions as is more of a culture based upon magic vs one that is not.  The path of enlightenment only gains "magical" powers because they are bestowed upon them by their deity(ies), but the path of reason will follow the more traditional path that human warfare has followed in Earth's history.  I don't mind lighter-than-air type of flying units, because that's a more realistic achievement for a medieval era society, but a human powered  ornithopter is just unrealistic, especially if it's powered by one's arm muscles and not their leg muscles. [The magic is quite realistic, isn't it?  :P - @kukac@]

Sorry, I hope I don't offend anybody, but that's my feelings and my opinion and I don't ask anybody else to agree with it.
Dude, it's a fantasy game, but if your really looking for some new tech units i have one, its a unit that i proposed for Tech II but you can use it too. i'll do all the modeling and animation.http://http://glest.org/glest_board/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3807&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30

Platyhelminth

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #222 on: 30 November 2008, 17:11:24 »
I want to see a hero's steam engine in all techs machines particulary battlemachine .  :)
This may add a fun little realistic change for machines in glest/gae.

modman

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #223 on: 30 November 2008, 20:52:29 »
Yea, about that gameboy...are you going to do it?  I need it to be slightly larger than a Battlemachine.
Sorry moderators for a post that could possibly precipitate to be off topic.  So any more discussion of the mechanon should be here

modman

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Re: Four Path Magitech
« Reply #224 on: 1 December 2008, 05:38:10 »
Hey I think you should not change the attack multipliers.  Keep them the same, or else it gets too complicated.  I like how origanal Glest has only 4 damage types and only 5 armor types.  Not trying to be conservative, but I think the old ones kind of cover it all.