new faction ideas, concepts etc.

[rts gamerguy]

I've had an idea for a unique faction made exclusively for multiplayer, which would make possible some more advanced playing styles. Some ideas I've had for this would be an ambush unit, like the dead tree being animated (giving it the ability to attack) so that it could be in "hold position" near a bunch of dead trees, and as the enemy attackers come...

Also there could be walls with gates (I think the gates would be wall segments with a morph ability to become a much smaller wall, called opened gate, then the smaller wall also has the ability to morph back into the larger wall, called closed gate, these would be very rapid morphs). And although this next one isn't my idea it's  interesting nonetheless: a building that can heal (repair).

There should also be units that can switch from ground to air, which I think could be scripted in, and maybe some kind of garrison ability (units could be placed inside a building, morph into the same type of unit but it doesn't have a move skill, but it has greater range and power etc.) It would be easy to just add "garrison" to the beginning of the unit's name..

More interactive resources could be cool. For example, a tech worker unit with only a move and stop skill, called prisoner of war, with a morph ability to turn into the "impaled" model (although it would have to be re-skinned) which would count as a unit with the same concept as the energy source: a unit that does not move but is worth resources. (the resource itself could be called something like "blood", wonderful for evil factions). There could also be a building used exclusively for resource storage, called "warehouse" or something.

I've also found that creating one of the main buildings (mage tower, castle) far from the original base is annoying, due to the fact that it's overpriced, weak, slow to build, and is not easy to defend. Surely there could be a way of creating a harvesting outpost near a resource that can provide defense? I think there should be a building made specifically for this use, which has a high resource storage, and the ability to attack (maybe with arrows, because a particle projectile would look weird coming from a building...

The faction itself should not be tech-based or magic based, but a mix of both, a bit like a steampunk fantasy faction. I think this loosens up the gameplay, because it was always frustrating to have to deal with the lack of transportability of unit production that tech has, (this is why the ritual and summoning ability always came in handy for magic) and the lack of sheer power that magic has (behemoths and archmages were always nice, but I often found them being crushed by my enemies' battlemachines or my own...)

A few other miscellaneous ideas I've had include a die command, which can fix certain performance issues, and get rid of units that have become redundant. (for example, a pathetic daemon lost at the other end of the map and it's just a bother to get him back to base) If there was a way to recollect some of the resources that it cost to produce the unit (maybe having a negative resource cost for the command, thus 2 dying skills) it would be even more useful. Mass summonings would be useful (available with an upgrade, and maybe possible by adding an amount value somewhere in the produce skill). Also, boss battle scenarios are something to implement ( a faction with one, highly overpowered and nearly invincible unit, that cannot move [so that it's "defending" the position"] that can also produce units [which can move and attack], but does not have the ability [and therefore the need] to harvest resources, it just starts with a lot] and the scenario would be, of course, against a cpu ultra. It'd be a great test of a players'skill (I know this doesn't have anything to do with the new faction, but it's an idead)

So, what do you think? Idon't know If I'll ever manage to make it entirely (because I'm still learning blender) but I figured I might as well throw the ideas out there. I hope you like them, and I hope there wasn't too much to read  ! (By the way, the reason I'm saying it should be multiplayer only is becasue the AI would just NOT understand how any of it works, which would be a disappointing opponent...)

[MrBlack]

Great ideas, and about the garrisoning - I've always wanted some sort of "transport" air unit. I wonder if this would be possible?

[rts gamerguy]

that would be really cool, but I don't know how that could be made without meddling with the engine, and I'm unfortunately not too great at that... most of what I suggested are just ways that the xml's could be used to introduce some original content without having to change the functionality of the engine. I still have to test to see if half the stuff I mentionned works, so I don't know if something so unique will work. a possibility for something similar would be a  ground unit that can morph to an air unit, which could then morph back again into the ground unit. the ground unit itself could have a produce ability, which could be a quick production, giving it the same tactical significance as an air transport unit; it gets your units where you want them without having to follow a complex path. should this unit also have producing skills for buildings, it opens up some avenues for base creation.

On a sidenote, if anyone is interested in making models for this project, or helping me in any other way, that'd be great, please contact me, because I'm quite slow at making my own.

[Omega]

If you wanted all of this, it would most likely have to be for the GAE because of the land to ground unit.
The dead tree is a good idea, and if someone could animate it, it would able to attack. unfortunately, multiplayer only is a bad idea, since the other person would have to download the exact replica. But the dead tree wouldn't work against computers.

[rts gamerguy]

Okay, so the basic idea for this so far is a faction based on a single, master unit from which all other units, directly or through an extended link can be produced, and therefore all resources can be harvested through a link from this unit. this opens up some possibilities for scenarios and campaigns (if ever anyone figures out how to make one) because you could start with that single unit, which is not neccesarily a harvesting unit, and create an empire. This would make the beginning unit a bit like a hero unit, and could be made more as such by being made so that it is a starting unit that cannot be produce anywhere else, and by having huge powers. Or, this master unit could, through some process, create another or create something that creates another one of this unit. I don't know what this unit should look like, but maybe something like a cross between the battlemage and the guard (battlemage with armor and some kind of weapon, without the battlemage's weird hat...). I also plan to have the faction be more on the goody-goody side than evil.

I think the main building (from which the harvesting units can be produced) should essentially be a castle with a large, empty courtyard, to use the garrisoning concept I spoke of earlier. It should also have a tall tower and a warehouse-looking building, so that it would be reasonable for it to have a large resource storing capacity. maybe it could be animated to have a catapult, trebuchet or ballista so it can have an attack animation. because this would be the main base, this is probably the building that should have the ability to heal units.

As for the die command and the ambush unit, why not have a mix? The basic meelee unit (which would be very cheap and quite weak, therefore a lot of their corpses would litter the map) could have a second "stop command" but with the same animation as when it dies, but with a very long bit at the end where it just lies dead, or maybe it could just be a static model of it flat on it's face. Perfect for a surprise attak. I plan to make this unit as a tiny but stout-looking swordsman.

As for the walls, are there any existing setups available? I will need something to base my work on. Anyways, for the units that can switch from ground to air, I'm currently working on a witch-like summoner that can fly, morph into a ground witch, and summon units from there. Unfortunately, my model for this looks, at best, horrible. It's going to be a while before it's released. It also doesn't seem to work as well as I had thought...

I'm still coming up with resources. When I'll have all the models done and textured and partly scripted, I'll figure out what they actually seem like they would need. I'm very open to suggestions when it comes to this. As for the warehouse, I'm thinking of a simple farm silo called "silo" Seeing as how it doesn't get much simpler than that, it should be ready soon (as soon as I'm satisfied with the texture, which I just can't seem to get exactly right in blender...). Hopefully I'll have screenies soon!

The outpost will be a small fort, based on the castle but with an attack animation. this is probably the only thing that's well on it's way. I think I can manage having ballistae (did I spell that right? I wonder...) shooting javelins from it. I just can't figure out how to get it to shoot from the right place though... that'll require some tweaking.

In summary, I intend to have


faction name: any suggestions?

Master unit (possible mix between battle mage and guard, unadorned head)

hasrvester unit (without building abilitied),but with repair and healing abilities, can also be used as a healer in battle (This unit would probably look like a tech worker) but when something needs to be built, it has a morph ability to turn into a modified battlemachine (maybe a hammer and a saw for hands) whose only purpose is to build. The reason I make this distinction between the two types of units is simply for aesthetics; it's ridiculous that one guy with a hammer can build a huge building in half a day. A battlemachine, on the other hand, looks like it could accomplish such a job quite easily. The battlemachine would, of course, have the ability to morph into the normal battlemachine (maybe the builder one could be called buildmachine?) because it would be the obvious next step from a large machine when a civilization is in a state of war...

a witch that switches from ground to air and can summon

an archer that can morph into a repeater-crossbowman (based on the chinese repeater crossbow), which could in turn morph into the repeater crossbowman defense tower (I'll change the name, don't worry)

a silo for storage uses

a small fort

a dwarf-like swordsman (maybe a just for laughs upgrade with a huge weapon...)

a golem with a huge ballista on it's back, for defensive purposes (The golem is useful for defending bases, I consider it the equivalent of the tech defense tower) so it would have it's normal attack for ground units and the ballista for air units (I know, I know, i could just change the fields to it's old attack to ground AND air, but I tested this and I think it looks weird...)

stone walls with gates

the dragon, for it's sheer coolness. I think I could maybe get it to be a ground to air unit and vice versa by giving it a diving animation as a morph animation so it could turn into the drake from the drake rider unit and a jumping animation to the drake unit as a morph animation to turn back into the dragon.

the archmage, but it packs a much bigger punch.

a type of building specifically for researching upgrades

the main meelee unit (medium strength, medium armor & HP) In my opinion, there are two main groups to the main body of the meelee part of the army. The cheap but strong in numbers part, which can serve to everwhelm the enemy (the short guys), and the unit that's much more expensive but is arealistic threat. (this guy) for the model, I'm not sure If I'll just reskin the guard or make a double wielding swordsman.

so would anyone actually be interested in this faction? because from the feedback I'm getting here it doesn't seem like anyone wants a multiplayer-based faction. If anyone does speak up, have any suggestions for the faction?

[rts gamerguy]

due to general lack of interest in this topic, I'm posting it under a different title.

[Idanwin]

I like the idea.
But seeing all those things makes me think ... well ... I cannot make those things ... I'll wait till someone else does them...

Also about the tree: Units automaticly attack. So even in multiplayer they're not that effective...

[osiris]

by giving it a diving animation as a morph animation so it could turn into the drake from the drake rider unit

is you get the drake model by itself could you post it?

[rts gamerguy]

model or .g3d? I'm having trouble with  blender right now, so Idon't know...

[wciow]

You have some nice ideas here. To give you a heads-up on what is possible in the standard Glest engine I'll give some ideas on how to do certain units.

Hero units are completely possible in Glest. Just make a very powerful hero unit and start the game with it. As long as you cannot build or summon another hero then it will be unique. Making reincarnatable heros is only possible if not using the magitech faction since it requires editing of the resources file.

Garrisoning of units is in Glest is not completely impossible but would be VERY time consuming and complex to implement with XML.

An ambush unit is easy to make. Just have a unit which morphs into a tree model via a "hide" command. Unfortunately the AI will still recognize the enemy unit and the unit will still attack enemies. To change this you will need heavy C++ code changes.

Ground to air morphing is possible.

I like the idea for harvesting camps since it is annoying having to build a castle everytime you want more gold.

[ZaggyDad]

How is it possible to do garrisoning?

~Zaggy

[rts gamerguy]

I didn't know people were interested in this! I'm still working on most of this stuff, experimenting some of the xml suff, but it has been very frustrating to constantly have to go back to the xml's when I forget to do a small tweak... anyways, apart from whining, to answer your question zaggydad, I don't really know! I have been trying my very best to get some of this stuff to work, but garrisoning is something i have had to give up on in the end. I don't think its possible through xml modding. The very best result I ever got was by tweaking the archers' size so several could fit in the castle at once, and when the castle was attacked, they occasionally fired some shots at the daemons that got exceptionally close. Obviously, this wasn't what I had in mind when I said I wanted to make garrisoning. Oh, and the archers were in hold postion in the castle. and like I said, this was my BEST, and very lucky result. I may come back to this, but for the moment, I'm stumped. hope you're not to disappointed though (maybe some genius coder will figure this out, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed...) and for the tree, okay, I admit it wasn't the brightest idea, as were some of the others, but I thought it was very interesting at the time... anyways, I still don't know which faction i should put some serious time in (see my poll) so could anyone tell me what they're actually interested to see, because so far I've gotten a lot of doubts on wether the stuff I suggest is even wanted...

[ZaggyDad]

What do you mean by "tweaked their size?" They're the smallest they can possibly be, aren't they?

~Zaggy

[rts gamerguy]

yes they are, but after annoying him for a very long time I got a friend to lend me a bigger castle version with some more space, but with a stretched up texture, it was quite ugly. anyways, I meant having smaller archers proportionally to the castle, so they could fit inside. I also has him make me midget archers, but he only made a walk model and an attack model for those.  although changing the model's size isn't very necessary, it looks better.

[Omega]

I've tweaked alot of xmls myself, but land to air carrying is impossible (or seems) you can MORPH from a land unit to a air one, but carrying seems improbable. Can you post the G3D and TGA for the castle? I might be able to make it look better.

Here's a tree ambush idea: have a unit like a technician with a hold position command that will link to the tree model, and the attack will turn him back to a technician. (Just name it something better such as Tree Spirit or Faun) Unfortunately, as mentioned, trees don't fair well against CPU, as they know where they are, but they sure would look cool!

Also, you spoke earlier about taking off the battlemage's hat, adding armor, and giving it a weapon. What's the point? Just use a swordman model!

And I have a storage shed model used in my ancient tech tree (every faction gets it) it is a wooden shed that stores more resources than a castle and is built faster and easier, but can only store resources. I'll give you the model and xml if you want.

And for guarding the storage shed, you could make a cannon, then pake the particle proj.xml link to a sphere g3d (it works great) and it'll shoot a cannon ball!

A mix of both is a good idea for this faction. In my Ancient tech tree, every faction (there's 4) can use both magic, melee, and some can use arrows.

Can you please give me the xml script that you used for the suicide (self-die) skill/command? I hate having to bounce between Glest and an xml editor just to see if a function works)

Now, do since I made the post long enough, I'll get to the point:

Do you need any help?

Note: cannot make models, exporter won't work, and no experience in programming!

[modman]

Also another thing cool would be an energy source type thing that instead of building more of them, just have the energy source thing create more energy?  this makes your village less cluttered, so theres obvious advantages there too.  theres a problem with this, though, because I don't know how to give the energy source thing a skill that would "build" energy.  the only solution would probably be editing the engine.

So I guess what I was trying to say in the last post is that yea, I would like some help.  I can't really think of a way with the resources and abilities i have to make the energy source create energy.  The point of the create energy idea is that you don't build as many energy sources, but simpley click a button on the energy source called "make 10 energy" or something.  There could also be different buttons for various energy amounts, like 5, 10, 20, & 25 energy amount buttons.

[mictes]

That's easy to do.
But is it not better to make simply "upgrades"* for the energy-ressources ?
(morph over 5 levels to a more-energy-producing-ressource | And Tech could by 1 Food for e.g. 100 Gold at the store)

[Omega]

Although it is possible. I might try to make it soon...

[modman]

Alright rts gamerguy...

First of all, I really like the idea of having a grandfather type unit, one that builds your civilization.  But the idea of a ground and an air witch--I thought of that one too, and on my own accord for my faction, Dark Magic, which you can download by the way.  I tried it out, and it doesn't work and I'll tell you why.  You can't morph from land to air or air to land, so I think what wkow was talking about was that ground to air morphing would be possible with a minor change to the engine.  Anyways, if he would do that, it would be great.  I think it would be an improvement to my faction, and another opportunity for yours.
   That harvester unit you were talking about is possible, but impracticle.  Try bringing it to a battle, and it gets killed right away; a waste of resources.  That's unless it has tons of HP and good regeneration too.  I do like the idea of the harvester morphing into the buildmachine that morphs into the battlemachine.  I think they should be able to morph back and forth too.
   The stone wall idea is kind of cool.  You could make a wall all around your empire so that your empire covers half the map.  I like to do this in my own faction with "checkpoints" of 3 or 4 "fury of the tikis"(Yea, I know you don't know what that is, so just download the faction).  You would have to make numerous 1 by 1 tile units that, by somehow modding the engine, can combine and stick together.  These guys could also stick to defense tower-like units and form a chain.  The gates are a little trickier.  You would have to make a passible unit that could also be a link in the chain so that your units could pass through.  But a chain like this would be hard to make, and extremely costly.  Once built, it would be likke the Great Wall of China and be a great way to monitor your "empire".

[Omega]

Grandfather units are not a good idea. Technically, there is one though, and it's called the worker.   It builds everything and produces the units from those buildings, while gathering resources at the same time!

[modman]

That's different.  You get a castle at the start of the game too; also you can build (almost) unlimited numbers of workers.  Sometimes CPU Ultras do and then they can't find out what to do with them.  You wouldn't be able to build a grandfather unit.

[John.d.h]

Grandfather unit?

[modman]

Yes.  Grandfather unit.  Read the first post and my last long one.  Unfortunately it seems rts gamerguy has moved on, so he cannot read my responses to his posts.

[John.d.h]

Yes.  Grandfather unit.  Read the first post and my last mong one.  Unfortunately it seems rts gamerguy has moved on, so he cannot read my responses to his posts.

I did.  I just don't see how it's fundamentally different from a worker.  You have a unit that builds your empire... which is exactly what a worker does, right?

[modman]

The grandfather wouldn't be able to do anything except summon units (thus it could not build buildings or harvest resources).  In this way a castle is more like a grandfather unit.  In fact it would be one if it couldn't be built by a worker and if it could not store any resources.  Also I think it would be cool if the grandfather unit had negative regen on it's HP.  Your grandfather doesn't live forever...