Author Topic: Let's do something big (Read 9929 times)

Nihilirian · « **on:** 20 July 2008, 01:38:52 »

Hi to all modding fans of Glest.

I have a suggestion for a big project. I am going to describe some of the outlines of my idea. First decide and then we can discuss more about it.

Outlines:

1. Assemble team ONE of 3-5 or 7 people. They will be responsible for coordination and making the bigger decisions as well as working on the project. I will be one of them, I suggest also that Titi joins. I am looking towards people experienced in all areas of Glest modding - 3D, texturing, xml, animation, storyline, GAE...

2. Assemble main team TWO of like 20 people who will have several special areas.

3. Make a list of all the people that also would like to help from time to time with something. Enthusiasts.

4. Take our time in reading all the suggestions that all of the community will come up with main storyline and short description of ideas.

5. Make a list of the top 20 ideas. And team ONE will decide on which one to take.

6. Make a detailed plan and assign roles. One role can be coordinated between several people.

7. Start working on the project whenever anyone has time. Constantly share updates and progress in a separate wiki so it is easier for everyone to keep up.

8. The project should be finished in maximum of one year time span.

9. It should be something outstanding and abundant with features, units, buildings etc. The story should not be a cheesy one.

I have one suggestion - no movie or old game remakes.

If you think you are right for the team ONE or team TWO, please let us know why?

I myself am very busy also and I understand that everyone is but if we all have a plan and have a good team we can make something big.

Now vote and I hope to see good results on that. You have 7 days do decide.

@kukac@ · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 July 2008, 08:28:37 »

HÃ¡j,

Quote

1. Assemble team ONE of 3-5 or 7 people. They will be responsible for coordination and making the bigger decisions as well as working on the project. I will be one of them, I suggest also that Titi joins. I am looking towards people experienced in all areas of Glest modding - 3D, texturing, xml, animation, storyline, GAE...

Well, for me, it seems that team ONE consist of the leaders of the 6 type of modelling

are you sure that you can get 20 people for it?

Quote

5. Make a list of the top 20 ideas. And team ONE will decide on which one to take.

And what will happen to the other ideas? And the team 2 will just make what the team ONE thinks it's good?

Quote

8. The project should be finished in maximum of one year time span.

I don't really see the point in it. If someone won't have time for 11 months, but he is the Glest God (if something like that exists {beside Martinho}), he shouldn't take part in it?

An another reason: beta testing? A lot of games problem was that they were released too early, so the had a lot of bugs. Since it's not about money (for now...), I think we can take our time.

Quote

9. It should be something outstanding and abundant with features, units, buildings etc. The story should not be a cheesy one.

I totally agree! It must be something original, 'cause the copies are "not so good".

In the end, I think it would be a good idea, however, I afraid we will end up like "PatÃ³ PÃ¡l Ãºr" (does someone else knows his tale?)

weedkiller · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 July 2008, 08:59:38 »

Hi,
out of my Northmenprojekt together with titi i think i got some experiences about how such a project can work.

Main issue is that motivation and inspiration must be kept alive as itis the main thing which is needed. I think you can loose creativity very fast so dont overstress yourself with selfcreated rules, that can only be limiting. You cant expect that everyone has time to track the project in a row. If someone doesnt show up anymore that must not influence the project, the others keep working and maybe the other finds time and motivation again.

Okay, now how can you handle a project that is developed by many people? In my opinion you must create the techtree at first together with conceptwritings how exactly the unit shell look like. And dont make too much units, you will end up with low quality, better focus longer on one unit and try improving it. Of course we are no professionals(well at least me

EDIT:
@kukac "PatÃ³ PÃ¡l Ãºr" -> i found a spanish poetry, only word i understood was "pest", so maybe a very cruel tale right?

@kukac@ · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 July 2008, 09:06:43 »

Nye nye, shouldn't be the main storyline be done first? You start creating a fantasy techtree, and the story is based in a sci-fi world?

'Cause Nihilirian wrote a storyline, I think it will be story/campaign/scenario based (Glest: Episode 1

).

Hmm, second thought, it might be released in scenarios like that, and the 21631782367812 scenario together will make a campaign. Or maybe someone from GAE, or Martinho, or anyone else will find out how can you make a unlockable line of scenarios.

We shall see the future.

EDIT: no, I give you the correct link http://magyar-irodalom.elte.hu/sulinet/ ... atopal.htm

The tale is about a man, who had no wife, and he said "Ah, we still have time for that", his home was in rubble, so he should repair it, but he said "Ah, we still have time for that". Then they talking about his garden, that he has every tool, but only weed is in there, ->"Ah, ...". He needs a new trouser, they have already bought the cloth for him, he should just call the tailor, but "Ah, ..." In the end, it states that he never reached anything in his life, because his motto was always "Ah, we still have time for that".

rts gamerguy · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 July 2008, 16:03:58 »

okay, I'm not really interested in making a big commitment, but put me in the list of enthusiasts for xml's, ideas, and if can manage it, some g3d's as well.

Nihilirian · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 July 2008, 07:12:45 »

Firstly, Kukac:

1. Team one will consist of the most enthusiastic people. They may be all 3D modeling as you said or anything, just people that want to work together on a big project. It has to be minimum of 3 people -an odd number so when we vote everything is ok.

2. The workers, as you say, will be doing the same amount of work as team one will do, except they are not going to deal with other stuff like organization and other bs.

It is a random number. 9 will also do.

5. Yes. Team one will pick one that they decide. It wont be a selfish decision believe me. They will just be officiating the decision of team Two and the crowd's moods. If they don't get to pick it, and something bad for them is picked they wont be motivated.

About the other ideas - tories can mix, units can be taken...

8. The point is that we are not waiting for a "God" to appear and be ready, and if he or she is a god a month will also help us a lot. Main keyword in this project is "Team work". And by one year, I meant = really long time. I did a mod alone for less than two months. I expect something huge from a team in 1 year.

About releasing too early and taking our time...projects that span longer tend to fall apart, loose interest, find other interesting things to do.

weedkiller -

I was thinking we first assemble teams. Talk, come up with a well developed project management and then start applying it. And you are right, an important part is 3D modeling and texturing. But details are also a very big part. I do not underestimate any part of the modding.

Kukac & weedkiller, will you consider joining team one?

Quote from: "
RTS Gamerguy"

okay, I'm not really interested in making a big commitment, but put me in the list of enthusiasts for xml's, ideas, and if can manage it, some g3d's as well. """

RTS Gamerguy - that is exactly the extend of commitment it is expected for Team Two. No one can make a big one at this moment where no money are involved of course

This is why Team one will be smaller - it will do slightly more.

Thank you all. Lets see how this develops.

Omega · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 July 2008, 08:43:40 »

I guess I can join team 2 (is that an appropriant one?) I'm great with xmls, but can't do 3D modeling (although I can do textures, and I have a good model that's in xml format and needs to be exported and *possibly* animated)

I made my own faction (still in testing and not yet released) I got the brains (I can assure that) and I check the boards often. (even stuff thats a month old)

But anyway, does that fit your requirements enough?

Ayrin Greenflag · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 July 2008, 09:00:44 »

mmm the big project is a nice idea, but i've a consideration to do
1 Glest has 2 team that are developing it the original and GAE team, and they work hard on the code developping it,
2 this is a full customizable game, but the main problem is the different knowledges that are required, so only 1 or 2 ppl can hardly make an own game...
so the quest could be...let's create a database of useful things... i mean units, buildings, xml files, maps and scenarios...
i explain better .. i can use an unit original made to be a swordman, with few work i make an elf swordman, i modify an xml file and i put it in the database... someother one can get the xml for a space marine, and he put a nice particle effect on database, i see it and i use it for my wizard ... and so on....
various projects could interact and ppl help in more than 1 project...
do u think it's possible?

Nihilirian · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 July 2008, 10:00:37 »

This "DB" what you are talking of is off-topic and has nothing to do with this.

Quote from: "Ayrin Greenflag"

1 Glest has 2 team that are developing it the original and GAE team, and they work hard on the code developping it,

-what is this having in common with this project?

Quote from: "Ayrin Greenflag"

so only 1 or 2 ppl can hardly make an own game...

- i think I did.

Quote from: "Ayrin Greenflag"

so the quest could be

-Quest? Seriously ?

@kukac@ · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 July 2008, 10:23:30 »

Interesting, it seems everyone has some problem with this project, however, in the vote it 88% has chosen yes.

Nihilirian, I think they need some basic ideas, like do you want to make a standalone game, or just a techtree, fantasy/scifi/real/anything else.

What do you think?

Quote from: "Nihilirian"

Kukac & weedkiller, will you consider joining team one?

I will think about it, but you know, I don't really know anything about modelling/programming (only XML). So I don't really know how would I fit in such a team...

Nihilirian · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 July 2008, 11:32:44 »

You have knowledge.

Well, the idea is a full featured game. I don't know what you mean by standalone.

It will be using glest engine ofcourse. I guess it won't involve major programing may be just adding a feature if we cant find a workaround or need it so bad.

I will have its own - tilesets, models, units & buildings, effects, sounds, textures, music, gui, website, wiki...everything. The onlything that will not change is the engine. If this is what you call standalone - yes.

I was hoping for fast paced multiplayer centered, but also including several single player scenarios - depends on how we decide and from the story. I don't know right now if it is going to be fantasy, sci fi or whatever...depends on the story. We have a nice FX engine why spare it for arrows and swords...

The idea of this topic is first to see reactions, people interested and later here we will assemble the teams. Then we will set up a plan. The plan will include all those questions and concerns most people have. With a good management everything can be done.

That is how I did Nihilirian rebirth. Set up a plan and research for a month inducing finding an engine. I first had only this idea : "I want to make a 3d real time strategy game". From this I developed a very detailed plan - executed it in less than two months without problems.

I am planing to do the same here but many times bigger and this time in an international team. The motivation is - let's do something big, promote it good, get worldwide interest in it, do something for free which has a top-notch quality = many positives, be part of something big...you name it....

weedkiller · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 July 2008, 13:36:33 »

Hi Nihilirian,

i still am not sure what you mean by engine; Have you already changed the c-code of glest and recompiled it?
If yes we might be able to do some tweaks and hopefully we can teach each other to understand the code, but you may notice that even GAE with daniel.santos and hailstone is currently kindof stopped because its so difficult (and only few people had to do the hard work for all).
If not, well than we can only use the changes we can make with xmls and art (3d, images, sounds).

That doesnt mean that we can not make something impressive but its just exchanging parts and not really programming. Also we must test what glest gves us in its current state and then we must think up which themes are possible (for example you cannot make boats and no good tanks because you cant make a rotating turret).

So i again think, main focus are new factions of course based on a great story and designing menusa nd stuff.

Basically i am interested in every project with glest, but dont put me as a fixed member because there are times in which i can not contribute much creative work.

Nihilirian · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 July 2008, 14:27:22 »

That is the point why it will span long time. Everyone will be free to contribute whenever he or she has time and is inspired

Once I tried compiling the code but that was long ago before there were manuals of how to so I got constantly some error messages.

Rotating turrets and other stuff could be fixed in the code, true not easily but not impossible.

wciow · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 July 2008, 15:26:41 »

Maybe I'll help out with this, but you need a design document.

I have had a few years experience with modding in and out of the Glest Community. Without a solid design document this will turn into another talking shop of a mod where everyone has ideas (lots of ideas!) and excessively micro-manages but very little actually gets done.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but you really need to pick a solid idea and stick with it. The 'lets get together and then vote on ideas later' approach rarely works.

Also Weedkiller is right about the lack of coders. Since Daniel.Santos left modification of C code is pretty much out for Glest mods.

I am hoping that someday a coder will come who can tie up the loose ends in GAE. Although 0.2.7 is stable it has lots of bits which don't work right or are not imnplemented. Basically if someone can remove these unessecary code hooks and clean it up then we can release a final GAE based on 0.2.7

Ayrin Greenflag · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 July 2008, 15:55:17 »

I don't think my idea was off topic.. but it could be used to coordinate different projects..anyway i just tried to conside the thing to a larger point of view and considering the problem that most ppl find in creating a game
anyway it was just my opinion

and i will be happy to contribute with my few knowledges
so here are some ideas for the ambientation

fantasy with different factions good and evil not only 2
ex goods humans - elves - dwarves - lizards
ex evils orcs - undeads - chaos - dark elves

sci-fi
space marines against bio-machines
or humanoid alliance against insects

@kukac@ · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 July 2008, 16:18:28 »

Sadly, these are those choices which get into everyones mind. These are just copied from the Great Template Book. The Internet is right before you, you can search for other ideas, or try to use some creativity by yourself. And you can achieve a greater success with creative, original ideas.

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fantasy with different factions good and evil not only 2
ex goods humans - elves - dwarves - lizards
ex evils orcs - undeads - chaos - dark elves

What the !@#$ are with these good and evil templates??? Can you define evil?

There are no good and evil, only different opinions, different methods, different ways of life. :evil:

rts gamerguy · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 July 2008, 17:11:40 »

hm, a lot of people are attacking this project before it has even started... what's up with that? I think people may want to give this a chance.

I agree with whoever suggested creating a database for models, xmls and stuff, because that's probably the only way we can make something big, but I disagree on it being for several projects, because then anyone could abuse other people's work.

as for the idea of it being fast-paced multiplayer, I made a topic full of ideas for a multiplayer faction, if anyone wants to have a look at it, you may find some interesting ideas, or not.

as for a theme, I think we should go with the fantasy aproach, or an all-medieval and no magic theme, or anything else that isn't sci fi, because the rts games that tend to have a huge success are either fantasy based or a middle ages game.

Idanwin · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 July 2008, 17:35:52 »

Not attacking the project, the ideas.

And I don't like the Good v. Bad, not anymore.
In wesnoth it's for example chaotic, neutral and lawful.
And 1 faction isn't just chaotic or lawful but differs from unit to unit (it's still the same though, it just is ... different?)

Or maybe just no alignments at all.

@kukac@ · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 July 2008, 18:10:30 »

One step forward, two steps backward.

Ayrin Greenflag · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 July 2008, 08:46:22 »

Well good vs evil is a semplification
humans hates orcs because are ugly and barbaric
orcs hate umans because was chased as animals they lived free and now are closed inside swamps
the same for goblins
undeads only serve thir summoner so...not good or evil..the summoner is good or evil
Dark elves was created by elves as the elves love nature and respect life the dark ones love war and use nature without any respect (as most humans in our world)
The trolls are viewed with suspect by other races and fight against those who want invade their territories
Icegars (or chaos) was created by an ancient race but their defensive rule didn't work properly and they fought against everithing till the victory
The dark wizard want his revenge against races that exile him in a limbo out of time and so he use hate of races for his purposal

... so it's not just good vs evil...

^__^

@kukac@ · « **Reply #20 on:** 22 July 2008, 09:15:49 »

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humans hates orcs because are ugly and barbaric
orcs hate umans because was chased as animals they lived free and now are closed inside swamps

Just imagine, you live in a world where orcs, goblins, etc. exist. You will not think orcs are ugly, they are just different from humans.

Just look at america. The african were just slaves there, but nowadays, they are fully accepted members of the USA.

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undeads only serve thir summoner so...not good or evil..the summoner is good or evil

Their summoner/lich is not good or evil, just want to fulfill his dreams. In different ways. (Stalin, Hitler, they all wanted to achive world domintaion, but with different methods.) Avv, I'm using too much political references.

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The trolls are viewed with suspect by other races and fight against those who want invade their territories

Still political reference: arabians VS. everyone else...

Ayrin Greenflag · « **Reply #21 on:** 22 July 2008, 11:37:03 »

mmm just imagine a tribe of green big humanoid that enter in your town...look a bit around then start to destroy everything and rape all the abitant killing the ones that fight...
you are left behind as died...but u live...
your parents, your sister and brother are died or raped... what do u think about the green ones?
they are not evil they just think the stronger must overhelm the others
(something similar to Klingon i guess)

@kukac@ · « **Reply #22 on:** 22 July 2008, 12:14:43 »

It seems we are talking near each other (in offtopic, poor Nihilirian might be mad for now).

Why, did the big green faces attacked my village? It had a reason. And not a cheap reason like "we are evil, so we have to destroy a village".

It does not mean they are evil. And in a strategy game, we don't make the feelings of invidiuals. Every person has a different reason to fight, I'm not sure that everyone is fighting because they think their opponent is evil. Money, glory, fame, world domination, etc.

Ayrin Greenflag · « **Reply #23 on:** 22 July 2008, 14:41:12 »

Nihilirian i promise is my last message around the war motivation

u are right Kukac and also we are a superior race so we use other as we want..slaves..warkers..experiments...meat (and so i have included Britain empire, america, nazist, and some others hundered of wars past and present)
and considering this is a game we can give a reasonable motivation for each race player want use..creating a background story...it's possible to make some short animation as in warcraft? or some scrolling text as in War for the ring? maybe with a map of the region for tie the different scenarios?

osiris · « **Reply #24 on:** 22 July 2008, 15:14:35 »

you could take the geneforge approach..
have a lawful but cruel empire, the rebel humans + lifecrafters, and rogue crations.

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Should we do it?

Author Topic: Let's do something big (Read 9929 times)

Nihilirian

@kukac@

@kukac@

rts gamerguy

Nihilirian

Nihilirian

@kukac@

Nihilirian

Nihilirian

@kukac@

rts gamerguy

Idanwin

@kukac@

@kukac@

@kukac@

osiris