Dwarf faction

[titi]

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs

So who is missing ? 

Sorry I couldn't resist...

[modman]

Did you listen to my soundtrack for Dwarves?  If you did, you know that I put "Stoneworld Battle" in the arrangement.  I also put "Mechinations" and "Noble Race" in as well, and considered Majestic Hills but decided against it.  I can still put it in if you would like.

I would suggest forgetting about air for Dwarves.  You said that Dwarves should focus on melee combat; I would propose that Air is the exact opposite of melee, because melee cannot reach air units.

I would also suggest that the Engineer unit morph into the Bombard and another late-game unit.  Also, they could have giant siege units like giant crossbows and trebuchets.

[modman]

OK, I looked extensively at what exactly Dwarves needed.  I have addressed all of your problems (I think) and I came up with the following final outlook on the faction.

Code: [Select]

[img]http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3159/dwarves.png[/img]
Here is the reasoning behind the changes I would like to propose.  Dwarves seriously needs to be able to produce some kind of food instead of having to keep building Farms, hence the goat and pig (if anyone can think of any more "dwarven" animals...).  Guardian is kind of less RPG and more "dwarven" than Hero, so I like that change.  Also, Dwarves seriously need some ranged allowed early in the game, so I added the axe thrower and the grenadier.  The four units created by the engineer, as well as the dual onager are meant to balance out the early military abundance.  The alchemist lab name is semi-disposable, but I like it.  Of course it stores gold, too.  Finally, Dwarves seriously needs the engineer to heal and make late-game military.  To solve the ever-present problem of Battlemages still having gold, the engineer will also be able to mine and harvest and will not have an attack.

Goat- produces 5 food
Pig- produces 10 food
Guardian- same stats as Hero, except renamed
Axe Thrower- Finally Dwarves can get a little early ranged military
Grenadier- throws grenades and has higer armor and attack speed than the Cannoneer; also has a splash of 1
Dual Onager- a large boulder is fired using a dual-strength steel spring
Alchemist Lab- built by Worker and requires a Foundry.  This building will store Gold
Tank- Dwarves will get much-needed recon with this unit; it is the fastest Dwarven unit, but is noticably slower than a Horseman
Rocket- This will be like a Dwarven ICBM; it is not a superweapon however, just a long-range misslile with a large, slow-moving splash
Giant Trebuchet- I'm thinking about size value 6 here; it should be able to fire 30 tiles, but have a 20 second reload time.  It will be on a turntable so it doesn't look stupid when it turns
Dwarven Ballista- this is smaller than the Giant Trebuchet, can fire land and air, and can fire 15 tiles.
Engineer- This unit morphs from the Worker but can still mine and harvest.  It can also heal military and repair buildings

I found an article on the Dwarven diet here.  Maybe this can help...

[John.d.h]

It would probably be easier to balance it against Magitech if it didn't have almost twice the number of units. 

I'd say ditch the Rocket and the Trebuchet.  Neither Magic nor Tech has any such super-long-range weapons to counter them.  What about the Dual Onager and the Ballista?  Don't those seem really redundant when you already have a Cannoneer and a Bombard?  I think they've got the whole siege aspect of warfare pretty well covered without them.

[MadElf]

I think that is quite balanced with the elves faction, but not with tech or magic. I think you should make less fire power weapons and do something more primitive, like some mounts, some cool ideas:

Code: [Select]

http://wow.stratics.com/content/statistics/travel/dwarf_mount.jpg

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/conceptart/12192006_12.jpg
And some things like a x-bow unit, pike unit, war hammer unit and so on.

Edit: I cannot download your mod because it is on mediafire, so could you upload it on here -> http://www.moddb.com/mods?filter=t&kw=&released=def&style=def&theme=def&game=277&type=def

[wciow]

A very interesting post Modman 

Most of those idea's seem sensible. I especially like the idea of having a new building which will create bombard/flame team/canoneer and keeping the foundry as a research building. It currently feels a bit cluttered with 4 upgrades and 3 units.

I'm seriously considering the axe-thrower idea.

Also I like the way that engineers morph from workers (maybe once you have built a foundry?)

One thing that will not change is the farms.

As Johndh said there are too many units in that tech tree. Once I have added the engineer and axe-thrower they will be space for one more unit before it becomes bigger the magic or tech.

@ madelf :
Thanks for the concepts you posted. I prefer the second on it looks awesome!

[Idanwin]

Defence Tower as basic defence.
Canon Towers as a ground only defence?
And as a air only defence a dwarf with a guided missile launcher? They need an AA, as they have no air units themselves.

[-Archmage-]

well maybe this would help balance, i think their defenses might be overdone

if you made maybe something like this(below), it might help

(ground)cannon tower slow firing rate, slow recharge rate, fast projectiles, and strong attack, hp=6000, armor:20:metal, costs:300gold and stone, splash radius:2

(air)flak cannon tower medium firing rate, medium recharge rate, fast projectiles, and medium attack, hp=3500, armor:50:stone, costs:150gold and 350stone, splash radius:4

neither is moveable

just an idea

[John.d.h]

I was actually just about to suggest a FLAK cannon.  Good idea.

[-Archmage-]

thx

[modman]

I like the second image too; what are the chances you will implement this unit too, wciow?

So it is agreed that there will be no air?

I have to ask why you want to keep the Farm that way...it is so inconvenient!

[Idanwin]

Yeah! FLAK!!! That would be nice!

[MadElf]

What?? No Air units???

Some ideas:

Code: [Select]

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/media/images/newsletters/05_2008/DwarfMount_t2.jpg
I like the second one a lot.

And again, I will ask, please, for you to post your mod here -> http://www.moddb.com/mods?filter=t&kw=&released=def&style=def&theme=def&game=277&type=def

I can't download from MediaFire.

[John.d.h]

I think most dwarves would be distrustful of anything that went more than a couple feet above the ground.  I think it would be very hard to find a flying unit that would make sense here.  I still think the Dragon Slayer should just be called the Slayer...

[Idanwin]

I agree, no air units. (altough the pictures are nice)
But dwarves are a race that lived beneath the ground, they wouldn't leave the ground.
I see them as a slow but strong (high hp, high atk) race with high technology ground weapons.

As they have no air units I think they should have an extra anti-air bonus.

[MadElf]

Yes, I have to agree with you Idanwin, I think a huge air ballista would be cool, like this:

Code: [Select]

http://www.torsionrules.com/tormentum/p6170030.jpg

[Idanwin]

yeah, something like that,
You can even move it (slowly) and place it were necessary.

[Fluffy203]

This looks like a good mod i think i'll check it out 

[-Archmage-]

comon people don't let this mod die, i like it and i think i could help you balance

[Fluffy203]

How is the creator?

[-Archmage-]

i think wciow is

[Fluffy203]

lol i put how , well i don't think he'll let it die

[-Archmage-]

well it was falling a page a week as new mods began to rise and i think we should all help and work on this faction, and get it in v1.0

[MadElf]

Guys, stuff in life happens, do you expect people to work all their time on computer games stuff?
He could could be busy with more important stuff right now, it doesn't mean the mod will die.

[Fluffy203]

I agree with mad elf , but still i don't think a mod really dies , it depends on the people if htye stop playing it then it dies.