Dwarf faction

[modman]

I found an image I will use to base an air unit off of:

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8910/dwarfmountt1.jpg

[jda]

I've only tried the Dwarvesbeta faction so far, not the Gimli one and haven't followed this discussion.
However, I must say the Dwarvesbeta were my favourite faction so far!

I've seen a few posts here mentioning Rhinhoriders and axethrowers and airunits and... maybe that's too much?
One thing I loved about it was its simplicity/straightforwardness, so dwarf-like!
Another one was th balance that was successfully acomplished by more than just balancing the unit stats but also through resource-gathering (refreshing to have two diferent kinds of units coming out of the main building).

I did have three improvements I'd like to have seen there:
1. Fixing some of the buildings layout. E.g. you can build a farm partially on top of a dead three, which looks a tad weird. There were also a couple other glitches I quickly learned to ignore but ...
2. The lack of an aerial unit. Not that the dwarves would actually need it to defend themselves from air attacks, rather for the oponents to have some king of air unit to defend against... I would myself have gone for some kind of Zeppelin probably, one rather round than long, fun-looking like the rest of the units.
3. The Hero unit is kind of pointless, due to its cost. For the cost of it, you'd rather just build more plain Warriors who would have clearly more combined power.

I also wouldn't add magic to the dwarves. It's nice to have a non-human faction that has no magic.

Well, just wanted to say that. Will try the Gimli and see how that turns out.

Anyhows, great work, wciow! Congrats! 

[ElimiNator]

Yes it is very good.
However you need to fix/change or add some stuff.

-You need an air unit.
-the observation balloon needs a dead model.
-big canon thing has way to much range and damage and should take longer to make.
-also what is the observation balloon good for?
-I realy like the rhino guy.
-

[wciow]

Thanks for the feedback guys 

As stated above I'm no longer maintaining Dwarves. Anyone can make their own improvements as longer as they credit me. All the work in Dwarves is from either myself or the glest team so its basically GPL.

[jda]

Thanks for the feedback guys 

As stated above I'm no longer maintaining Dwarves. Anyone can make their own improvements as longer as they credit me. All the work in Dwarves is from either myself or the glest team so its basically GPL.

I gladly would if I could but I can't!  I don't know how to and have no time to learn either.

I guess I can contribute some thoughts though (I tried the Gimli and liked it BTW )
I'll pick add to what I said before by picking up on later ElimNator's comments:
- airunit: yes, as I said above, a round Zepelin would be fun. Maby one that droped bombs instead of actually firing them at a range? Like drop 'em at point-blank... Is that possible?
- big canon aka bombard Yes it is kind of overpowered. But then again so is the FlameTeam, given how high their HP is...
- The observation balloon was a great idea, I thought. It has no offensive capabilities but its sight is 32, much wider than any other unit. Hence, it's good to keep an eye on incoming attacks (if your own troops are not scattered around already). Could also be good is some maps, like in the middle, where everybody "meets" though in that case, it'll probably be destoyed soon if not properly defended; and if properly defended, you may not need the observation balloon anyways?... But still an interesting idea.
- rhynoguy aka Outrider is cool alright although I thought three horns in a triangle would be more triceratops like... But what really is wrong about it is its attack-range and corresponding animation. In its animation, the spear hardly goes beyond range 1, it definitely looks weird attacking on range 4 (throw it against a building to see what I mean).

wciow, on any acounts, i's still a great faction! Thanks!

[-Archmage-]

Ok, I'm canceling my plans to work on Elementals, and Eleminion.
I'm going to work on this, and be the new maintainer, if that's alright with everybody.

First up: BALANCE

Also, I think it would be cool to add a weak attack to the observation balloon. Any ideas?

[jda]

Yes, DON'T add a weak attack to the observation balloon! It would completely remove the building's originality. It is the only building I've seen in a mod which does not perform any action and can still be  very useful - just make sure its sight-range tops any unit in any other faction.

I do have quite some other ideas. But for now, the balancing would be good.
Though... I myself actually thought of trying to model an air unit (it would be fairly simple and the most complex parts (the pilot) would simply be stolen from another dwarf unit (either the canoneer or the engineer(?) ). Only I've never modeled before so I though it seems simple in my mind (compared to other units I've seen) I have no idea when would I have completed it (or started!).
This all to say, if it were me, I'd probably do an air unit first, before trying to balance the whole faction out (if not, the dwarves would later become unbalanced again, due to the inclusion of an additional unit).

[-Archmage-]

Actually yes, lets wait a little while, and see what other people think we should add to the game.
We'll do the balance work after we finish adding units.

[Mark]

A long time ago I worked on an improvement on the observation balloon.   I added a guy with a giant gatling rocket that could be added as a promotion.

[-Archmage-]

Awesome, I think we might put that in, that is if it's still availible, or did you lose it.

[Mark]

Well, I never lost it, but I am having issues with learning to animate, and I am working on GLADE. 

[-Archmage-]

Give it to me I'll animate it.

[Mark]

No, apparently you have had quality issues, according to Fluffy and Eliminator.  Thanks anyways. 

[-Archmage-]

No, apparently you have had quality issues, according to Fluffy and Eliminator.  Thanks anyways. 

What the?? QUALITY ISSUES!?!
Well thinking about all the latest posts by you makes me think you're trying to get rid of me....

[assassin]

Yeah, Mark, why are you so harsh to Archmage. He has done loads for Glest and is one of the most active forum members.

[modman]

I think people are hesitant to give a well done work to improvement by others, when they haven't given permission.  Ask wciow; if he is opposed, you'll have to modify the name of your new mod.

Wciow may also want to have input into what you add, as well.

This applies to all works, including default Magitech.  So Mark isn't really being harsh, he's just defensive and I hope you understand his position.

[-Archmage-]

No, apparently you have had quality issues, according to Fluffy and Eliminator.  Thanks anyways.

Modman, does this look like he's telling me I don't have permission to continue development of the dwarves mod?

I'm pretty sure Wciow doesn't mind, because sometime after I posted that I was going to develop this mod, he was online, and looked at this topic for about 5 minutes.

I"ll PM him just in case.

[Mark]

Well, I mean that I don't know if I will just send you the model to have you animate it.  I will try myself first.

[-Archmage-]

Ok...........

[wciow]

I'm pretty sure Wciow doesn't mind, because sometime after I posted that I was going to develop this mod, he was online, and looked at this topic for about 5 minutes.

Yeah I have read this topic recently and I am fine with you guys continuing the development of Dwarves. I only ask that you leave the Gimli release as it is and create a new version with credits for anyone who contributes.

I only gave Dwarves up because there are lots of other things I want to contribute to in Glest, especially Dark Magic which I haven't done much actual work for. Although the Gimli release has plenty of room for improvement I felt it was finished enough to call final.

As usual I'll be lurking around the forum and giving some input.

I hope to see some good stuff being added   

p.s If anyone wants the original .blend files please ask me

[-Archmage-]

Can you PM me the .blends please?

[ElimiNator]

Just post them for all to use.

[-Archmage-]

Yes, just post them but I'm going to make the new releases of Dwarves ok.
Just send stuff you've done to me, and tell me what it improves, I'll test it any way I can, and add it if I think it's an improvement.

[jda]

So... I've started working on an airunit for the Dwarves.

It'll be a Zeppelin like airship (but I don't think I can call it 'Zeppelin' as the company still exists and so, using that name for something not made by them, might be trademark infringement).
I've called it DAS (Dwarf Airship or D-Airship) for now but might also call it D-Zep. Still, not awesome names I guess - suggestions welcome!

Being my first model ever, it's been a bit long and sometimes painful to do what I've got so far.
Matter of fact, I'll redoing it from scratch. Amongst other valuable lessons I learned so far, one of the most important ones: Do NOT smooth or use any other automatic tool on the model til all the pieces are done AND blended together! Otherwise, later fitting them into each other becomes a living hell!...
So that is part of the reason I'll be redoing it all again. Also, I think I can get a few things done better on this second (actually third!) try.

What I have so far is actually very little but I'd still like to get some feedback from you guys before I (re)start it - link below.
Planned changes:
- overall baloon-body rework: I still want that overall shape but probably slightly shorter and with a more pointy back. And overall better ballanced. I do want the straight edges along its depth to show - not as round as the tech airship! But for the other axis, I'd like them smoothly round.
- wings: I really think I should make them bigger. I also think the top (vertical) wing should be slightly larger than the side wings but not completely sure. Also, the side wings back are currently not perpendicular to the ship's length and I think they should be. Might add a bottom wing but not too sure about it, if I do, it will be considerably different than the others. (Also, I got some issues with unexpected transparency appearing in the wings (all three of them), which was beyond my comprehension; I think I fixed it but... There was also some unwanted deforming (luckily mostly to the bottom side of the side wings)
Link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/celt25lmfcy/jda-das_reinicio.5.2+reference_dwarf.7.g3d
Any feedback and suggestions welcome!

As a side note:

Yes, just post them but I'm going to make the new releases of Dwarves ok.
Just send stuff you've done to me, and tell me what it improves, I'll test it any way I can, and add it if I think it's an improvement.

Sorry to tell you this but I don't think I'd like to work that way.
I mean if you're going to receive contributions, be it this one or any other from me or anyone else, and on your own decide what to make of it... well, I'd understand that if you were the original author or the current lead-developper... If you want to test and package whatever someone contributes to this faction, that's fine by me. But I haven't really seen you show project leadership for this faction.
So I'll keep working on the faction myself. Depending on what goes in an on this project (whomever may get involved in it) I might play by it or not. If I decide not, I might just make a fork and all I do for Dwarves in and out of that fork will of course be free to be used by whomever wants it anywhere.

[-Archmage-]

Well, I don't think I have time to do this, you do whatever you want.