Author Topic: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)  (Read 277756 times)

wyvern

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1075 on: 4 August 2011, 14:28:17 »
Lol, but seriously, have you considered giving the brotherhood a mercenary option, a good soldier better then the average UNATF trooper but expensive in money, no other resources required though.

Mr War

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1076 on: 4 August 2011, 15:31:25 »
Have u considered drugged soldiers, like zombies for the brotherhood? Cheap but dumb.

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1077 on: 4 August 2011, 18:05:16 »
Have u considered drugged soldiers, like zombies for the brotherhood? Cheap but dumb.
As per the storyline, there are "zombies" in a sense, from their new experimental serum weapon, but they will only appear in the campaign.
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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1078 on: 4 August 2011, 19:44:49 »
I had a thought regarding the Brotherhood's tank and heavy chopper -- modular guns.  The unit would have a load command that holds, for example, three types of units: a rocket pod, a chain gun, and a laser.  This would be separate from the troop carrying command.  These guns would be created as units per se (easily represented by a crate) and they would be able to fire regardless of the transport's spacial orientation like a turret.  Of course, we have no way of representing them on the transport cosmetically, but that's no biggy.  Additional modules could be, for example, a sensor array or microwave generator.

For example:
Light gyro, holds 1 person or 1 module (utility or gun)
Transport chopper, holds 6 personnel, 2 gun modules, and 1 utility module
T-5 tank, holds 3 gun modules and 1 utility module

Omega

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1079 on: 4 August 2011, 21:40:41 »
I had a thought regarding the Brotherhood's tank and heavy chopper -- modular guns.  The unit would have a load command that holds, for example, three types of units: a rocket pod, a chain gun, and a laser.  This would be separate from the troop carrying command.  These guns would be created as units per se (easily represented by a crate) and they would be able to fire regardless of the transport's spacial orientation like a turret.  Of course, we have no way of representing them on the transport cosmetically, but that's no biggy.  Additional modules could be, for example, a sensor array or microwave generator.

For example:
Light gyro, holds 1 person or 1 module (utility or gun)
Transport chopper, holds 6 personnel, 2 gun modules, and 1 utility module
T-5 tank, holds 3 gun modules and 1 utility module
That's actually a really good idea. However, I don't like the idea of having to load this unit: what happens when it's not loaded, etc... Might be simpler to give each of those three units some "mods" which are actually a morph skill (and can only have one such mod). The major advantage is that you can change the look, so a heavy gyro (transport chopper) with an anti-air mod will be identifiable from a gyro with a anti-ground rocket mod. Yes, it's simpler and doesn't allow as much customization, but the CPU will never use loading correctly, and it sounds like a overcomplicated burden for players: morphing is easier and CPU-safe.

Rough ideas:
  • S1 Gyrocopter
    • S1 Gyrocopter Light Laser - Adds a light laser cannon which is strong enough to deal good damage to infantry, but relatively harmless to armored units.
    • S1 Gyrocopter Ground Rockets - Adds anti-ground rockets which are effective against ground units, but slow to load.
  • S1A Heavy Gyrocopter
    • S1A Heavy Gyrocopter Chaingun - Adds a heavy chaingun, effective against both ground and air targets.
    • S1A Heavy Gyrocopter Anti-air Missiles - Adds advanced anti-air missiles which are capable of dealing heavy damage to aerial targets.
    • S1A Heavy Gyrocopter Super Charged - Increases speed, attack power, health, and armor.
  • T-5 Reaper
    • T-5 Reaper Heavy Laser - Adds a powerful laser that deals heavy damage to infantry and moderate damage to armored units.
    • T-5 Reaper Cloaked - Allows the T-5 Reaper to gain access to a powerful temporary energy cloak that only is removed when the unit attacks (the fact it is energy nullifies the need for a detector).
    • T-5 Reaper Extended Range - Increases the range of the T-5 Reaper's attacks by a formidable amount and increases armor.

These are just concepts and will likely be changed, but they also have another advantage for being a morph, as where else will the weapon fire from? Some are added attacks, others are stat boosts. In the added attacks, the new attack will be the "primary one" (ie, they are the first in the command list, so the AI will use them, and in cases like the anti-air cannon, it will switch to its regular attacks only when all aerial units are dead). The prices will vary, for example, the T-5 Reaper Extended Range will be cheaper than the Heavy Laser.

As well, because the names are too long, they'll likely be shorted (eg, T-5 Reaper Extended Range becomes T-5 Reaper ER) with proper descriptions in the tooltips, as always.



On another important note, I realized that our current plans with cloaking and detectors will require that a detector can belong to multiple cloaking groups. I made a feature request for that, and hope it is implemented. https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7436.msg76248#msg76248
« Last Edit: 4 August 2011, 22:05:19 by Omega »
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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1080 on: 4 August 2011, 21:43:41 »
That's actually a really good idea. However, I don't like the idea of having to load this unit: what happens when it's not loaded, etc... Might be simpler to give each of those three units some "mods" which are actually a morph skill (and can only have one such mod). The major advantage is that you can change the look, so a heavy gyro (transport chopper) with an anti-air mod will be identifiable from a gyro with a anti-ground rocket mod. Yes, it's simpler and doesn't allow as much customization, but the CPU will never use loading correctly, and it sounds like a overcomplicated burden for players: morphing is easier and CPU-safe.
Main drawback: many more units to keep track of.  At least tags should help with some of that, assuming they can be used with repair lists, load lists, etc.

Loronal

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1081 on: 11 August 2011, 14:07:18 »
wait apocalyptic, yay somebody should make a brotherhood of steel (fallout tactics) mod.  :P

Omega

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1082 on: 14 August 2011, 23:41:14 »
Apocalyptic Dawn: Now on ModDB.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/apocalyptic-dawn
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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1083 on: 25 August 2011, 02:28:41 »
Today's question: Should Apocalyptic Dawn have some type of population system (where there is a maximum unit count)?

Analysis
Pros
  • Forces the user to use more strategy, as they can only have so many units (larger units can require multiple operators and thus use multiple population points, so one would have to balance their tank versus two infantry units).
  • Helps enforce lag (simple rule of thumb: more units = more lag)
  • Encourages users to diversify and use more effective units than just spamming the cheapest unit (it's no secret that it's easier to win a tech battle if you spam archers than if you diversify more).

Cons
  • Harder to get that massive battle some people like (high enough populations can give more than enough units, however).
  • It's a limitation, nuf said. Many players will prefer less limited play.
  • Potential con: How will the AI react?

Implimentation
Now, with that said, if they are implemented, there's a large number of ways to do so.

Firstly, we could have some type of housing be built (this gives lots of room for differenting  the sides, such as using tents, huts, hideaways... Anything could be used as housing). There would be a maximum limit on the number of houses (let's say each house gives 10 population and you can build up to 8, for a maximum of 80 population). These houses would be restricted by a hidden resource, which would limit the number we can have (if GAE ever supports MG's maximum unit restriction XML tag, that would be a cleaner method).

Secondly, a more conservative method (houses take up a lot of room, and need more management), would be to simply give the user all the population at the start. It would be simpler for the player, but simplicity is a double-edged sword: good or bad.

Finally, we could morph the main building, perhaps making it look more intimidating and increasing its health and stats, in, say, three chunks (start with 30 population cap, after the first morph, the cap would increase to 60, then to 80). The issue is how we can build multiple of these buildings, which would cause definite problems. We cannot use subfactions as the AI still had trouble with them last I saw, which means that we can either restrict the main building to one or, my better idea, to have the main building given at the start of the game different from the other buildings. In other words, we have "headquarters" as the building that engineers (worker units) can produce, but the main building given at the start of the game is actually "headquarters_", which will appear the same ingame, but is actually a different unit with these new morph commands.

Personally, I really like the concept of the last option, which is more unique and fits well, though it could be subject to AI issues (though the AI seems to morph without trouble). The building cannot grow in physical game size, however, as that would be too restrictive (eg, if any units are too close, particularly other buildings), but it can grow in height and the model can look fuller. The second option makes a backup if the third does not work, though the first would take up too much room, in my opinion, since there's already lots of buildings: adding eight house-style buildings would take up more room than we have.

Resource
Population would be a static resource (ideally, there would be a way to show both how much we have left and the maximum, such as 43/80, but that is not currently possible, so it would have to make do with a "countdown" showing how many more we can have. That may change should a new resource type for population be implemented in the future). The resource would be recoupable, meaning that if a unit using one population dies, the player gets that one population count back, which they can spend on a new unit (thus, you can only have 80 at a time, not over the whole course of the game). I would prefer to do away with food entirely, replacing it with population, though both could reasonably co-exist. Most units would only need one population count, but for balance and realism, some units like tanks or aerial units would require more (thus, you can build less of them, but they're more powerful, so you'd have to decide, one stealth bomber or two infantry units? That stealth bomber could wreck quite some havoc, but if those infantry units are anti-air, they could down that stealth bomber pretty easily. Strategy prevails.

Decision
Which brings us to our final point: Should we have a population resource or not? And if we do, should we keep the food resource or not? And if food exists, should it be recoupable (get it back after the unit using it dies, like Magic's energy) or not? I am all aboard for having a population cap and doing away with the food resource. As a note, before replying, if you have not already played a game with such a cap, I recommend you do so. I admit, first time I played AoE2, I thought that I did not like the population caps, but later on, I realized how they made me a better player, since I had to use more strategy. So, please, comment below! :thumbup:
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wyvern

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1084 on: 25 August 2011, 11:58:30 »
I think its a good idea but maybe you could make two versions/techtrees of the game like in the Annex mod where one would have pop and the other wouldn't ro make the pop enlargeable but make it harder to do so, like in BFME2

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1085 on: 26 August 2011, 18:34:06 »
The Website of Apocalyptic Dawn / Military http://military.glestguide.co.cc/ Shows me "You're settling for good when there's awesome. Upgrade to Firefox 3.6!". In fact I'm using Firefox but I use version 7.0 wich is, sofar I now a bit higher than 3.6. Well, ok, 7.0 is still beta, but same with 6.X (current version) .

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1086 on: 26 August 2011, 19:13:30 »
The Website of Apocalyptic Dawn / Military http://military.glestguide.co.cc/ Shows me "You're settling for good when there's awesome. Upgrade to Firefox 3.6!". In fact I'm using Firefox but I use version 7.0 wich is, sofar I now a bit higher than 3.6. Well, ok, 7.0 is still beta, but same with 6.X (current version) .
Yes, I am aware of that. However, no plans to update it until the next release is ready, in which case it would be a major overhaul of the site. I don't even use Firefox anymore. :P
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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1087 on: 26 August 2011, 23:38:58 »
IMO Glest games might not go well with a maximum unit count. Besides that, I guess the only real problem would be the AI. Have you done any tests on this yet?

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1088 on: 27 August 2011, 06:12:07 »
IMO Glest games might not go well with a maximum unit count. Besides that, I guess the only real problem would be the AI. Have you done any tests on this yet?
Not personally, but it works for Annex.
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Psychedelic_hands

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1089 on: 27 August 2011, 07:09:39 »
IMO Glest games might not go well with a maximum unit count. Besides that, I guess the only real problem would be the AI. Have you done any tests on this yet?

It's not a Glest game, it's a game on the Glest engine. Two games on the same engine don't have to look or feel alike, I mean, look at the unreal engine ;). Modders should be trying new things and Annex is a shining example of that  :P.

I've been trying to implement housing in a mod, and the AI haven't been playing well at all... But I've also changed a lot of other things as well, so maybe it's not the housing that is doing it...

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1090 on: 30 December 2011, 19:54:15 »
I just downloaded version on moddb, and just want to comment on a few things:

First you didn't include certain tilesets so a few senarios do not load. Like your tuitorials.

also just wana say aside from the menu music, the music really does not go with your mod. They are very Super Nintendo style. While snes music is cool and all, it doesent go with the more realistic theme.

Your models render nice in 0.4 beta!
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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1091 on: 31 December 2011, 05:28:56 »
I just downloaded version on moddb, and just want to comment on a few things:

First you didn't include certain tilesets so a few senarios do not load. Like your tuitorials.

also just wana say aside from the menu music, the music really does not go with your mod. They are very Super Nintendo style. While snes music is cool and all, it doesent go with the more realistic theme.

Your models render nice in 0.4 beta!
Ooh, someone noticed that. On a side note, that was actually version 2.5, more properly, and wasn't really meant to be released, only doing so so there would be a release of some type for some of the fixes in the previous version. Technically, version 3 is supposed to be underway, but Skyrim and Civilization V (speaking of which, it's interesting how most of Civilization's gameplay is coded in Lua and XML, which can be modded) have possessed my soul (it's in Steam's EULA). I've planned all new music tracks, plenty of new models (the whole unit design was changed), and hope to implement an entirely new campaign (starting from scratch). The tileset? Overlook, though with version 3, I want the release to be modular, so expect scenarios, tilesets, etc to be released in separate addons (though I'll likely also release one addon that bundles everything for downloading convenience of those who want it all).

I actually did try and do some work recently, by taking Mr Wars balance spreadsheet and started adding AD's units, but somehow I went wrong early on, while adding in new rows and columns to make up for the extra units, and now, despite the best of my attempts, it seems to be broken in some of the later rows. It probably isn't the most accurate way to do things though, since AD's units tend to have more than one attack.
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Zoythrus

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1092 on: 31 December 2011, 17:48:54 »
So, Omega, you're a Civ 5 fan too? look me up on Steam.

i think that i'll test out AD when the next GAE update comes out.

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1093 on: 31 December 2011, 18:09:54 »
Yea I was expecting to see like the apc and stuff in it. All right good luck then!
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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1094 on: 31 December 2011, 19:30:47 »
Yea I was expecting to see like the apc and stuff in it. All right good luck then!
Hmm... I could have sworn the APC was in that version, if basic.

You know, looking at the units folder, there's 40 units. I'm thinking some should be cut out, as 40 is just too high of a number for Glest. Specifically, cutting out the BM-30 Smerch, the Active Denial System, the Radial Denial System, the fortified pillbox, the M252 mortar, the TOW-equipped Humvee, and the SAM site. The rational for this is that all these extra units have quite a few downsides: the game is more difficult to learn, it's a lot more work for me (who knows, a future version could add some back in), heavier on the computer with all the extra units, and there's just no really no room for all these units.

Admittedly, it's hard to part with some. The ADS, for example, was the subject of a lengthy discussion about how it would work and whether or not to use it. However, I think we've gotten just a but out of scope. Scaling the project down slightly (after all, besides the fact there's still 33 units without those 7, there's still a scenario campaign that needs work and a future opposing faction) would overall help AD. The ADS and its upgrade were never crucial units. They were niceties, but weren't necessary for the faction, as well are still untested in how well they would really work. The BM-30 Smerch was a new unit concept, but long range units would need an equally long range sight to function correctly, which affects balance. As well, like the ADS, it's simply not crucial for the faction's design. The fortified pillbox is unnecessary. The pillbox defensive structure would just be two tiers without the FP, going from the pillbox to the bunker. The M252 mortar is also unnecessary, as it is very similar to its second tier, the M777 Howitzer. The extra boost to damage isn't interesting enough to need a new unit. The TOW-equipped humvee is the same way: we have other units capable of taking out tanks and armoured foes, we'd just leave the first tier, the regular humvee. And finally, the SAM site would have been considerably different from the Patriot Missile System it upgrades to, but air units are so late game and the AI takes so long to bring them in that it's redundant to upgrade a unit only of use late game for a stronger version. We'll just skip to higher requirements with a medium strength PMS (actually, we shouldn't acronymize that).

So, Omega, you're a Civ 5 fan too? look me up on Steam.
OT, but I don't even know how to do that. Steam was the worst part about the last two games I've played, Civilization V and Skyrim. Many reviews criticized the game for the use of steam. I mean, I love the concept of a centralized (kinda) store for buying and downloading games, but when you buy the disc version, you'd expect to not have to cope with steam and its lengthy verifications. Steam adds an extra 20 seconds to the game's startup, gets fussy when I'm offline, and occasionally likes to leave me hanging while it verifies some file. But aside from Steam woes, an awesome game (except even with a clock mod, it's hard to tear yourself away at 3 AM).
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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1095 on: 1 February 2012, 20:09:01 »
I'm just curious, what is the current state of Apocalyptic Dawn? Are you waiting for the next stable release of GAE or something. :)

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Re: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)
« Reply #1096 on: 1 February 2012, 23:42:11 »
More like waiting for me to get my butt in gear. I simply haven't had the time to put any serious effort into it for a while, now. February and March are looking hyper for me too. I don't see much happening in April, but it may get to the point of which work on it won't resume till the summer (if I could have any super power, it would be the ability to control time, though I'd cope with the ability to not have to sleep; time constraints are man's worst enemy).
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