Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)

[Omega]

Looks cool, maybe we should include logos in the faction and techtree template for the wiki...

Logos would indeed be a good idea. Technically, any image that well portraits the faction or techtree in question works, including logos.

That really does remind me though, the loading screen image is stretched in a wierd way, which degrades quality when its unstretched to fill the screen. Maybe I'll go posting on the request feature board...

[Mark]

It looks fantastic when small, and superb when large.  Great work!

I played your military for the first time last night.  Looked like hard work!  Some things I dislike:

• The factory: it has a really simplistic texture, and a simplistic model.  Maybe you could make it look like a miniatiurized assembly plant, like this, and it could be larger, you know.  No one says it has to be 3 tiles.  Make sure there are plenty of smokestacks with plenty of smoke.
• The Nighthawk: It is seriously too small!  Air units can be large, because there are few obstacles for them, except each other, and you won't have many air units.
• The Flamethrower:  I like how you modified the texture, but it is too simplistic.  The color of flames is not plain yellow/orange.  Also, real flamethrowers had very thin flames.
• The techtree: I like how you took into consideration various key factors in modern warfare, but the techtree is counter-intuitive and rambling
• tanks:  Tanks in real life travel usually at over 30 miles an hour, 6 times the speed of a marching soldier.  You have it moving at half the speed of a soldier.  At least make it equal to the soldier, so they don't lag behind so.

Other than that it is great!

[Omega]

Thanks Mark.

The factory, hmm, yes I would like to improve it, but how to do so efficiently while not making it look too small?

As for the Stealth Bomber, that's a good point. I can make it a size 3.

The flamethrower is currently undergoing some new particle effects, we'll have to see how that turns out.

Yeah, tanks are actually quite fast in real life, some capable of hitting 70km/hr... It's quite stereotipic, I know, to have them so slow. Mostly, that's just to balance them out thanks to their strength. Can I get some opinions on Realism vs Balance here? Whichever side the PLAYERS want, I'll go with.

The techtree? Not sure what you mean by "counter intuitive and rambling". Do you refer to the wide array of units (and their mixed weapontry)? If so, that's mostly because of the need for variety. Of course, I'm open to ideas for improvement.


Thanks mark for your comments, which are valuable for improving the mod. And, of course, other comments are always welcome.

[Zoythrus]

will the military get an opponent? an opposing faction?

ideas:

Hillbillies

Hippies

Aliens

or some weird conglomeration of the three...

[John.d.h]

will the military get an opponent? an opposing faction?

ideas:

Hillbillies

Hippies

Aliens

or some weird conglomeration of the three...

The Hell?

[Zoythrus]

im just saying that Military needs an enemy...of some sort...

[Omega]

Perhaps... but definately not those ones. And at the moment, the focus is improving the existing faction, not adding an opponent. Possibly in the future, if inspiration shall give us better ideas (No offense, but.... hippies???).

[Zoythrus]

yes, hippies! they are anti-military, so it would be a perfect enemy! (and i wanna kill those pot-heads...)

[Gabbe]

No, i can smell the military OP already..

[wyvern]

why not rebels or something, like really cheapskate weapons and untrained troops

[Omega]

Could be rebels, terrorists, etc; Or even an opposing black ops, etc; But at the moment, the priority is still Military. An opponent may come in the distant future.

[Mark]

And, of course, other comments are always welcome.

No problem.  Some more:

• Sea.  Maybe the ship could be larger.  I know that it would be hard to move it, but seriously, new maps make this fine. 
• transport.  Do you have a transport?  Well, if you don't you should, and it should look like a very wide, gray ship with cloth stretched over the top.
• Reply about the tank:  I don't really care about realism, because some tanks were lighter and faster, others were massive and slow.  You should have a light tank, and a supertank (better name please) if you care about realism.  For this, make it faster, have a slower attack, a longer build time, and a higher cost.  That should balance it out.
• Reply about the factory:  Make it larger.  Tech and magic accomplished the admirable goal of making every building size 4 except a few, but you don't need to worry about that.  Size 4 or 5 is fine for the factory. 
• New idea: you could have a laboratory, that would require the existence of a factory.  The lab would do upgrades regarding chemistry, and give upgrades that would increase mechanical units' movement speed, bullet range, bullet damage, and allow for rockets and superweapons.

The techtree? Not sure what you mean by "counter intuitive and rambling". Do you refer to the wide array of units (and their mixed weapontry)? If so, that's mostly because of the need for variety. Of course, I'm open to ideas for improvement.

What I mean is that almost every upgrade has a prerequisite.  I love extensive techtrees (one of the great things about rts games; it allows long, entertaining games), but getting "wartime negotions" requires some random prerequisite, from a different building.  I ended up building every single building just for one upgrade!  Most games have a set of upgrades done by one building, then another set of upgrades done by another building; or they opt for a different system, like in Civ4, where there is a techtree which is clear in what is and is not a prerequisite. 

You also have presence spelled wrong.  Ever single unit seems to have a healing presence, and you spell it "p-r-e-s-c-e-n-c-e".  I don't know if it is a dialect difference, but most people would think that is wrong, whatever the case.  Please change it.  Also, you could have the medic be able to build a field hospital, which would be a large tent with a red cross on it, which would heal adjacent units.  The AI wouldn't use it though...

[Omega]

Thanks again mark. My comments:
-Sea, good question... I would LIKE to make it bigger, but its already the biggest standard unit, and I worry that rivers may become too crowded for practical use of boats. Since Military3 has a transport ship, which is too valuable to send out unguarded, it is necessary to send multiple ships down waterways, and I wonder how big we can go before things get too crowded...
-Factory: I suppose I will.
-Labatory: Good idea, I'm for it, and will add one into Military3. It will be the equivilant of the library in magic or the blacksmith in tech (aka: an upgrade building).

Concerning the prerequisites of Wartime Negotiations, it's meant to be the LAST upgrade you ever get, as its an endgame upgrade meant to drastically increase the defenses and health of the most important building, the Headquarters, allowing it to survive the stronger, late game units better. I hope to make the upgrades clearer by releasing an image of the upgrade map (similar to what Civ4 has) with Military3, along with the updated unit map (kind of broke it in 2.4). I hope that tooltips get implemented soon too, so I can explain better what the upgrades are.

@presence, my bad. Will fix to "Presence". No clue why my spelling failed me there.

[Zoythrus]

hey, i was wondering if it'd be possible to make a wiki or something for this mod. it'd be nice to have details about the units and stuff like that

[Omega]

hey, i was wondering if it'd be possible to make a wiki or something for this mod. it'd be nice to have details about the units and stuff like that

I will eventually expand the Glest wiki to include military's units, but my first priority really is Magitech, since its the most popular, most common techtree. It doesn't merit its own wiki though, thats what the Glest Wiki is for. After all, it is a mod, even if its a full-conversion mod.

[Zoythrus]

ok, can you please explain to me the point of the grenadier? what's his purpose?

[wyvern]

To deliver a high splash damage attack, although at short range

[Trappin]

Can I get some opinions on Realism vs Balance here? Whichever side the PLAYERS want, I'll go with.

Maybe just rename the Humvee since your model resembles a tracked M577A2 Command Post vehicle.

 

Self propelled artillery units are slow when compared to standard tanks ( not sure I'd refer to the Braveheart as slow .. heh)

[wyvern]

an infantry combat vehicle with an anti tank missile mounted above the cannon(like the russian BMP) would be cool, it could act as a mix between apc and tank.

[Zoythrus]

the Humvee should transport men too, but only 4 or so, and it would allow them to fire out of it. the apc is the same way, only it holds 12 or so guys and they cant fire out

[Omega]

Can I get some opinions on Realism vs Balance here? Whichever side the PLAYERS want, I'll go with.

Maybe just rename the Humvee since your model resembles a tracked M577A2 Command Post vehicle.\

Erm...the humvee doesn't have tracks... Are you sure you aren't refering to the APC?

The humvee CAN transport men as well, but less and isn't well armoured. It's best use is to transport slow moving units to the destination, then immediately let them out.

The point of the grenadier is to deal high splash damage against INFANTRY UNITS. It has a unique attack type that is ineffective against non-humanoids, but deals heavier than normal damage against human units. I'd also like to add a secondary stun grenade attack with an effect to stun the foes temporarily without dealing damage. Might be an interesting tactic to pursue in the games as well .

[Zoythrus]

well, ok, i see that the grenadier has importance; but could you increase its range by 1 or 2? the range is too small i think. my grenadiers are unable to actually hit anything because they die too fast, so the range should be slightly increased.

also, what builds the apc? ive played 2 games and i cant find it (i have 2.4)

[ultifd]

Well, since they're are slow, you need to have some units to back up them. Besides, any faster they would probably be overpowered...
Similar with scarabs.

[Gabbe]

Please not realism>balance?

[wyvern]

well, ok, i see that the grenadier has importance; but could you increase its range by 1 or 2? the range is too small i think. my grenadiers are unable to actually hit anything because they die too fast, so the range should be slightly increased.

also, what builds the apc? ive played 2 games and i cant find it (i have 2.4)

I can't find the apc or the transport ship