Author Topic: Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)  (Read 277777 times)

Omega

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #900 on: 26 February 2011, 19:17:16 »
I just noticed this... the Military logo on your Glest Guide still points to the 100mb site. Perhaps you should update  the logo too? Also, if you're going to endorse Firefox, maybe try to put it to the right of the logo. Also, you should update the copyright year too.
Thanks for spotting that. The site is being completely redone with the next Glest Guide release. The firefox ad will be completely removed (it was buggy anyway).
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Zoythrus

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.3.3.
« Reply #901 on: 27 February 2011, 02:53:47 »
maybe a bomb dog with explosives strapped to it, and as for stealth units, maybe a sapper/tunneler, digs under enemy units and then blows up. Or tunnels in the style of what the japanese and vietnamese made, invisible other then to stealth detection units and able to swiftly transport troops between two points

c'mon man, we dont want to blow up any dogs!

and about the trenches, this is like, 2050, trenches are a thing of the past.

wyvern

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #902 on: 27 February 2011, 04:46:20 »
trenches are certainly not a thing of the past and never will be, its a way for infantry to gain some defense against their counterparts no matter how technologically advanced

Zoythrus

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #903 on: 27 February 2011, 04:51:47 »
well, we cant put guys in trenches yet, nor can we have instant transportation like the Zerg's Nydus Canal...

Omega

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #904 on: 27 February 2011, 14:58:48 »
well, we cant put guys in trenches yet, nor can we have instant transportation like the Zerg's Nydus Canal...
^ This is true. And instant transportation could be very overpowered, particularly if you place one behind an opponents base.
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wyvern

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #905 on: 27 February 2011, 16:19:28 »
I mean you'd have to have two tunnel exits placed and each would have to be built above ground so unless your enemy is really dumb, theres no way you could rush in, place an exit and keep it from getting destroyed.

Ishmaru

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #906 on: 27 February 2011, 20:14:47 »
I mean you'd have to have two tunnel exits placed and each would have to be built above ground so unless your enemy is really dumb, theres no way you could rush in, place an exit and keep it from getting destroyed.
   

Sounds like GLA Tunnel networks form C&C Generals. :P

As for trenches an idea would be to have infantry combat units morph into a trench defense structure. or a stationary version of itself like one surrounded by sandbags. similar to C&C 3 or Red Alert 2.
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wyvern

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #907 on: 27 February 2011, 22:12:13 »
I mean you'd have to have two tunnel exits placed and each would have to be built above ground so unless your enemy is really dumb, theres no way you could rush in, place an exit and keep it from getting destroyed.
   

Sounds like GLA Tunnel networks form C&C Generals. :P

As for trenches an idea would be to have infantry combat units morph into a trench defense structure. or a stationary version of itself like one surrounded by sandbags. similar to C&C 3 or Red Alert 2.
I didn't realize that, I know the tunnel feature is in BFME 2

Omega

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #908 on: 26 March 2011, 06:40:24 »
Mwhaha! I did it! The full documentation of Military is now online on the wiki: https://docs.megaglest.org/Military

Every unit, building, upgrade and more has its own page. There's a page for the attack and armor types, along with a convenient table illustrating their multipliers, a page listing the scenarios (missions), one for each resource... There's a navbox at the bottom of *each* page, and all pages are categorized appropriately. A fine job, if I may say so myself. Military: First mod to have full documentation on the Wiki. :D
« Last Edit: 18 June 2016, 14:03:31 by filux »
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wyvern

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #909 on: 26 March 2011, 22:18:19 »
I recently looked through the military factions equipment and three ideas popped up, 1-possibly replace the rpg trooper with someone armed with a javelin or LAW missile launcher since the rpg is usually associated with terrorists it could be given to the cult, 2-give the APC an ability to upgrade into a IFV which would be an APC with an automatic cannon and possibly a one-shot rocket mounted over the cannon, something like the russian BMP is what I have in mind only with a 30mm automatic cannon instead of the heavier equipment, otherwise it would retain all abilities of the APC, 3-I'm not sure if this has already been done but the APC and if ever added the IFV- could be amphibious vehicles, capable of making a quick morph to swim across water but with a large speed penalty, when in the water mode, they could still shoot and fight as normal.

Omega

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #910 on: 27 March 2011, 01:26:03 »
1-possibly replace the rpg trooper with someone armed with a javelin or LAW missile launcher since the rpg is usually associated with terrorists it could be given to the cult
Support. And while I'm at it, perhaps I could just break it into two units: One anti air and one anti tank (would make more sense too).

2-give the APC an ability to upgrade into a IFV which would be an APC with an automatic cannon and possibly a one-shot rocket mounted over the cannon, something like the russian BMP is what I have in mind only with a 30mm automatic cannon instead of the heavier equipment, otherwise it would retain all abilities of the APC
Hmm, yes, that does seem pretty cool... And:

3-I'm not sure if this has already been done but the APC and if ever added the IFV- could be amphibious vehicles, capable of making a quick morph to swim across water but with a large speed penalty, when in the water mode, they could still shoot and fight as normal.
If I were to add amphibious abilities, I'd prefer to give it to just the IFV simply so that it has another advantage of morphing. Only thing I worry about would be the fact that the Transport Ship could get its position undermined. Of course, it would be the only thing able to transport larger vehicle units, but that could end up downplaying the larger units in general. Would need some experimenting. Largest problem I think is the fact that we can't change the move speed based on the field yet, and no sense adding a feature request yet with a merger to come (speaking of the merger, that will make a mess out of merging all the forum categories... I would assume we'd merge the Feature request subcategories into one main category, though not sure what we'd do about the old GAE/MG topics).

At any rate, I don't plan to add any of these in to this version. Look for them in version 4, in the distant future. :o
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wyvern

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #911 on: 27 March 2011, 03:09:49 »
ok, I can wait ;), its a great mod and can only get better :thumbup:

Zoythrus

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #912 on: 16 May 2011, 03:11:09 »
hey, Omega, the 4.0 beta is out! is that good enough for a release of Military?

(also, what happened to those headshots i gave you? did you ever use them?)

ultifd

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #913 on: 16 May 2011, 04:53:33 »
Yeah, just post a beta.

Omega

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Re: Military Tech Tree -- Waiting for GAE 0.4
« Reply #914 on: 16 May 2011, 04:56:10 »
hey, Omega, the 4.0 beta is out! is that good enough for a release of Military?
I'm trying to figure out how the widgets work, though the lack of documentation stifles imagination. :P

In all honesty, I'm so busy at the moment with tons of school work, several major projects going on, many upcoming tests, as well as the fact that final exams are looming closely by. I wouldn't expect to see the next version until the summer.

As for the headshots, they will wait until UNATF is perfected. Only then, will I move on to the "cult" faction. Name suggestions for the faction and its units still accepted.
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Omega

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Re: Military Tech Tree
« Reply #915 on: 18 June 2011, 06:13:26 »
As I expect to do much more development in the upcoming summer, I also wish to rename all the units to be a bit more precise. For example, the stealth bomber will become the B-2. As well, when you want to produce, say, a marine, you'll be given a choice of a few weapons. This will be the same for all infantry in UNATF. Instead of entirely new units, there'll be a few "ranks" of units that can have different weapons. If I recall, there is a way to make a building like submenu for regular produce commands, and that's what would be used for this.

So why did I post this here? Well, it's a lot more than just a "hey, thought I'd let you know", but rather, I want your help! I want your ideas and suggestions on names for units, weapons, etc. As well, what weapons should be available for different unit classes (which are also yet unnamed). Images of all the units are available on the wiki, on their own unit pages: https://docs.megaglest.org/UNATF

This is dominantly a naming thing, but the whole "what produces what" and unit structure will be modified as a result. As well, some defunct units such as the flamethrower would be replaced, for example, by one of the ranks of base units with a flamethrower weapon choice. This is all for the UNATF faction, as I want it perfected out more before I move on to the (still unnamed) cult. I don't even know the names of most of the weapons that the current units carry, so the help of a more military-minded user is drastically needed. Many of the weapons will be brought more "up-to-date" as well, by replacing them with more modern alternatives.
« Last Edit: 18 June 2016, 13:58:05 by filux »
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wyvern

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Re: Military Tech Tree
« Reply #916 on: 20 June 2011, 19:27:41 »
I'd say the standard weapon for infantry and marines should be the M-16 assault rifle, possibly, you could add a grenade launcher attachment as an upgrade, I'll have to look up the name of that though. I wouldn't include either RPG's or AK's since that is usually associated with rebels/terrorists. So the RPG trooper should be divided into a soldier with a LAW against tanks and a Javelin against aircraft. Some sort of SMG for the medic would be nice, or no weapons at all to make him realistic :| (medics can't fight or be shot at). Their could be a LMG trooper with a M60/M249 LMG to give longer ranged rapid fire support. I'd drop the flamethrower since those have mostly been dropped in favor of precision guided munitions(could go to the cult though). Their could be a lieutenant soldier who has a pistol and gives perks to surrounding troops. I'm also not sure if you want to keep the baton soldier. For the AA rockets, maybe patriot missile system or something. Shotgunner could have a mossberg 500 and be a marine only soldier. your tank looks like an M1a1 Abrams and the APC looks like an m113(thats where the Amphibious idea came from). The heli could be an AH-64 Apache. I'd change the Infantry helmet, it looks like what the French war 60 years ago in WWII. The infantry rifle looks like its bolt action so that really needs a replacement with the M-16. The spec op has an MP-5 so he should be fine. The AK for the marine should be switched for the M-16 as well, possibly with the grenade attachment. The spec op could also be upgraded with flash bang grenades that do no damage but stun the enemy(not sure if this is possible). The Humvee shouldn't have a name change but the weapon should be a .50 cal or lighter, not a minigun, it could also have a TOW missile upgrade. The Abrams should have a coax mg(maybe) of 7.62mm calibre and a M256 Smooth bore cannon. Right now I'm running out of time but I'll post more later today. These are just minor comments

Ishmaru

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Re: Military Tech Tree
« Reply #917 on: 20 June 2011, 20:57:43 »
Defiantly get rid of baton solder, really does not fit with the whole future war idea.

If you are changing the tech tree maybe changing unit dependencies, for example dont understand why i need a special ops to have a medic, or a humvee to have a tank. I like the idea though to have infantry morph to more advanced classes.

I also agree with Wyvern with basic infantry looking like ww2, their gun looks like a bolt action rifle as well.
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ultifd

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Re: Military Tech Tree
« Reply #918 on: 20 June 2011, 21:00:05 »
I still think you should release a sneak peek of Military, as it seems to be improved a lot. A lot of changes, right? I'd love to test it with Git Master...

Omega

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Re: Military Tech Tree
« Reply #919 on: 20 June 2011, 21:42:12 »
Wow, thanks Wyvern! That's exactly what I was looking for, and I look forward to you expanding on that when you get the time.

Defiantly get rid of baton solder, really does not fit with the whole future war idea.
Yeah, I agree. The baton soldier wasn't an original unit, but rather a stem from a request to have a melee unit. Now that there is a flamethrower and shotgunner (working names ;D), which have short range attacks, they are a suitable replacement for a true melee unit.

If you are changing the tech tree maybe changing unit dependencies, for example dont understand why i need a special ops to have a medic, or a humvee to have a tank. I like the idea though to have infantry morph to more advanced classes.
Good logic. That was originally a (poor?) attempt to add some hierarchy by ensuring that the user would have to branch out more, but with the next version, I'm thinking of a free-er hierarchy of units, and balancing the units pros and cons to give a reason to branch out. Some of the upgrades may have to be changed as well, and more might be there to allow the creation of these "better" weapons.

I still think you should release a sneak peek of Military, as it seems to be improved a lot. A lot of changes, right? I'd love to test it with Git Master...
While I see your point, I am simply not happy with how it looks at the moment, and want to improve on this. However, if you'd look around the GAE board, you'll find a snapshot I uploaded so there was an addon available to test. Just make sure you download the one Silnarm uploaded slightly after, as the one I uploaded is not git-master compatible. Please bear in mind it's just a snapshot, is not finished, may be buggy, and has some incomplete stuff still. Also, the git-master was/is having some addon troubles and as a result, the menu model and language files are not working :(.
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ultifd

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Re: Military Tech Tree
« Reply #920 on: 20 June 2011, 22:24:16 »
I still think you should release a sneak peek of Military, as it seems to be improved a lot. A lot of changes, right? I'd love to test it with Git Master...
While I see your point, I am simply not happy with how it looks at the moment, and want to improve on this. However, if you'd look around the GAE board, you'll find a snapshot I uploaded so there was an addon available to test. Just make sure you download the one Silnarm uploaded slightly after, as the one I uploaded is not git-master compatible. Please bear in mind it's just a snapshot, is not finished, may be buggy, and has some incomplete stuff still. Also, the git-master was/is having some addon troubles and as a result, the menu model and language files are not working :(.
Do you mean this one? http://sourceforge.net/projects/glestae/files/military/military3-beta.zip/download
Oh. Well, I'm sure someday it'll be fixed.  :)

Omega

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Re: Military Tech Tree
« Reply #921 on: 20 June 2011, 22:26:33 »
Do you mean this one? http://sourceforge.net/projects/glestae/files/military/military3-beta.zip/download
Aye, that be the one, mateys.

Try not to judge too much on that, it's a bit dated.
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wyvern

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Re: Military Tech Tree
« Reply #922 on: 21 June 2011, 00:36:39 »
Ok, I'm back, among other suggestions is getting an IFV like the Warrior/Bradley/BMP, This could have some sort of automatic or light cannon and a small turret, with a possible above gun rocket mount(always thought it looked cool on the BMP), Another suggestion could be a light tank like the Sheridan, which would be capable of infantry support and possibly be airliftable.
My next idea was adding a chinook, it could carry light guns, infantry, and maybe/unrealistically, the Sheridan. Also, if you want to keep with the UNATF theme, I think the troops should be a mix of nations, so not necessarily all american(L85/Famas assault rifles for example, or foreign vehicles/helicopters).

I still insist the A-10 should be included.

On second thought, you could keep the flamethrower but make it replaceable with a precision flame missile(RPO?)late game or precision missile truck.

A mortar could be included possibly the M252 used by the US.

The howitzer could be the L118 from Britain.

With the stationary gatling gun, I'd trade that for a normal MG of your choice, dug in inside a machinegun pit(could be M60,M249,M2 or any other type)

If you really want the minigun, I think a good idea would be to make a river boat with the minigun and capacity for two passengers or something of the sort.

I'd give the transport AA guns, or make it upgradeable to an amphibious assault ship like the Wasp or Tarawa class, which could launch harriers and carry troops while at the same time having limited defensive capabilities(possibly add a lynx patrol copter)

Possibly, it could be possible to have the army soldier armed with the M-79, which could be upgraded to a barrel attached M203 grenade launcher for a marine. Main difference would be the fact that the M203 allows decent rapid fire defense while the "Blooper" trooper would be vulnerable to close up infantry.

I definitely think the spec ops sniper ability should be given to a dedicated sniper who has an extremely efficient cloaking ghillie suit and an M-82 or M-40.

Other ideas include a radar truck, flame M132, mortar M113 or other weapons on that chassis.

If you want I'll come up with more and am willing to help do minor models to help

Zoythrus

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Re: Military Tech Tree
« Reply #923 on: 21 June 2011, 03:25:34 »
Wyvern, those are all great ideas, but keep in mind, that's a lot for Omega to handle! (not to mention the players!)

ideas of mine:

The UNATF need a detector unit, so why not an UAV? it would detect all stealth units except for the stealth bomber (which should decloak when it attacks, so that other units can have some way of countering it w/o a AA turret)

i agree with Wyvern's idea of a dedicated sniper. it should be a morph of the spec op. while the spec op could be cloaked when moving and standing still, the sniper should be perma-cloaked. the downside? only infantry should fear the sniper, for he sucks vs everything else (unlike the spec op, which is good against multiple unit types).

the gatling gun should be a MG nest (possibly even make it look similar to the GLA Stinger Sites, so that it doesnt have to turn and look odd)

Omega

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Re: Military Tech Tree
« Reply #924 on: 21 June 2011, 06:12:03 »
Wow, thanks again, both of you. While hard to comment when I know so little about these weapons overall, I will certainly look into them and try and implement many of them, if not all.

If you really want the minigun, I think a good idea would be to make a river boat with the minigun and capacity for two passengers or something of the sort.
I think I may save a river boat for the cult faction. I have a great idea in the back of my head, kinda like this:
(click to show/hide)
The cult would be a dirty faction, using things that are banned by international law, such as dirty bombs, chemical and biological weapons, etc, as well as things that are "frowned on" today, like napalm.

On second thought, you could keep the flamethrower but make it replaceable with a precision flame missile(RPO?)late game or precision missile truck.
Hmm, is this what that would be? What exactly is a precision flame missile (information would be needed to create a realistic projectile).

I'd give the transport AA guns, or make it upgradeable to an amphibious assault ship like the Wasp or Tarawa class, which could launch harriers and carry troops while at the same time having limited defensive capabilities(possibly add a lynx patrol copter)
Assuming you mean the Transport Ship, I'm thinking the default version might be unarmed, more akin to a super tanker than a military ship, but perhaps an upgrade to an armed version? An aircraft carrier does sound interesting, especially if it is able to produce units itself.

I definitely think the spec ops sniper ability should be given to a dedicated sniper who has an extremely efficient cloaking ghillie suit and an M-82 or M-40.
Agreed. For the special op, I want to completely do away with its current weapon in favor of something more realistic. One weapon choice would certainly be a sniper rifle of some sort. For cloaking, I'm thinking a unit that has no detector for it, and can only be found by its decloaking on attack. As for the weapon, doing some wikipedia-ing, the M-82 seems to be the most popular choice, but what about its still-in-development sequel, the Barret XM500? Since this takes place in the future, and the XM500 is supposedly going to replace the M-82, it may be the more practical choice.

If you want I'll come up with more and am willing to help do minor models to help
You're welcome to come up with as many ideas as you want. Obviously, we'd only be able to use so many, but more choices mean we can pick the best of them. For the most part, though, this is plenty. I can handle the major models, like our friendly soldiers, but if you want to help with low-poly(ish) models of the weapons, that would be a great asset and I would be very thankful for the help! They don't have to be extremely detailed either, since we're going to be quite zoomed out, and we have to keep poly count at a reasonable amount anyway, but as long as it resembles the weapon to at least a recognizable degree, it's golden. The name of the weapon would be visible when choosing which branch of unit you wish you produce anyway.

The UNATF need a detector unit, so why not an UAV? it would detect all stealth units except for the stealth bomber (which should decloak when it attacks, so that other units can have some way of countering it w/o a AA turret)
The cult is getting a UAV, so not sure if UNATF should get one too. Since the stealth bomber can be detected by the AA Launcher, and the Sniper will purposely not have a detector, I think it should be fine until we see what stealth units the cult will get. Also, the stealth bomber already decloaks when attacking, though, if the opponent has no AA Launcher, it makes a great spy, as it can camp the foe safely above, has a large sight radius, and is the best choice to use when you need to target an opponent for the nuke special attack. Oh, perhaps the nukes should be renamed minutemen or something?

the gatling gun should be a MG nest (possibly even make it look similar to the GLA Stinger Sites, so that it doesnt have to turn and look odd)
Not entirely sure what that is, but if it's what I think it is (based on a google search) from C&C, then it would still look odd when firing in any direction. I tried using a turret nest before, and it just didn't look good. Perhaps a single soldier on the ground with a more modern machine gun would do better.

Thanks again for all the information.
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