Apocalyptic Dawn (formerly known as Military)

[Omega]

so, i see that you didnt go with the turret upgrade system that we discussed...

Which one? The stun one I didn't go with, just too many units. The turrets don't have a morph because I couldn't think of what to morph it into.

i have no problem with a howitzer or a mortar, but where's the anti-infantry weapon? it needs some sort of minigun or something, arties are too slow for infantry

The machine gun turret was the old anti-infantry weapon, but the current idea is a portable machine gun instead. Look for our friendly soldiers carrying around our new toys.

[Zoythrus]

also, gameplay-wise, what's the difference between the mortar and the howitzer? they seem to overlap too much, you may need to nix one (or replace it with the stun gun)...

[wyvern]

I think the M2 should get an ability to dig in(I can also hardly imagine someone lugging around a .50 cal machine gun, its more likely to be too heavy) The mortar should be more short ranged but far faster in rate of fire when compared to the howie, it should also be cheaper and do less damage and splash.

Also M2A3 abrams is illogical since it would mean its a new tank, it should still be M1Asomething if its an abrams.

[Ishmaru]

R u sure abrams is the right name for that tank? I may not know much about  modern tanks but that tank never struck me as an abrams.

[Gabbe]

You said the EU were going to be a "superpower", im worried about what huge kind of arsenal so many countries would have. I mean, the countries uses a wide variety of weapons.

[Omega]

R u sure abrams is the right name for that tank? I may not know much about  modern tanks but that tank never struck me as an abrams.

This here is a real life M1 Abrams:


This here is the tank in UNATF:


Close enough for me.

also, gameplay-wise, what's the difference between the mortar and the howitzer? they seem to overlap too much, you may need to nix one (or replace it with the stun gun)...

Now that you mention it, I think we need to replace the Mortar with something else. What should it be? A stun gun (forget the name) or perhaps something a little more lethal? Not so sure how well a stun gun would hold up in terms of usage and usefulness. Plus, if we're going to kill them anyway, why not just do so right off the bat with some powerful explosive than stunning them first? Just find the logic behind a stun gun a bit weak. But at any rate, it should be replaced.

The howitzer uses HE rounds, and is technically anti-personal, though more indirect, and I'd love to use an "attack-location" if it gets implemented.

I think the M2 should get an ability to dig in(I can also hardly imagine someone lugging around a .50 cal machine gun, its more likely to be too heavy)

Well, I was thinking a fairly slow unit (can always "go faster" by using putting them in a humvee or some other type of transport) that drops to the ground to attack, as well as for its hold position (similar to how the marine in the aforementioned beta drops to one knee). Realistically, it would use cover, but that's an engine impossibility, and the disadvantages to using a bunker of some sort were previously listed in an earlier post (to sum that up: if it rotates, that is bad, if it doesn't, it looks terrible shooting with no gun ).

Also M2A3 abrams is illogical since it would mean its a new tank, it should still be M1Asomething if its an abrams.

That was a typo. It should say "M1A3 Abrams", which is the next tank and will be coming out in around 2018, so it seems fitting.

You said the EU were going to be a "superpower", im worried about what huge kind of arsenal so many countries would have. I mean, the countries uses a wide variety of weapons.

Remember, it's all one country now, with one unified military. Some inferior forms of weaponry were retired. But, let's not go into depth here, because this is about the UNATF, not the fictional utopian EU.

[Ishmaru]

It actually looks like a British Challenger II tank:

This here is the tank in UNATF:


and Challenger II





Besides I always view tanks as the backbone of the military anyway, so if the EU is the dominant force in the world so it should have a European tank instead of a American one. Currently some most of the vehicles are usually associated as American (yes i know other nations use them but they are associated with us military) M1 Abrams, Hunvee, B2, Apache so it would look like UNATF is dominated by the US with support from EU.

EDIT: Btw same applies for the Apache (image on glest wiki looks dark but silhouette looks off) Even so Apache are old are are going to be replaced soon by the US, if they haven't started already.

[Omega]

You're right. I renamed the tank as a Challenger 2, which seems more powerful anyway (120mm main gun compared to 105, etc).

I tried to make the armaments come from different parts of the world, such as the Russian BM-30 Smerch, the German MP5/10, the Italian M1014, the Swedish AT4, etc. Though, yeah, many of them are american based, though used in more countries than just USA.

[wyvern]

Keep the Mortar, it can me a mobile, shorter ranged, faster firing and lighter damaging howitzer, the howitzer would serve a defensive and long range support role, and BTW have you considered something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCT_155mm as an upgrade/late game replacement for the Howie. Honestly, the tank that is probably the best now in todays armies is the Israeli Merkava but the Challengers close enough in ability and Ishmaru's right your tank does look like a challenger up close

[Omega]

BTW have you considered something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCT_155mm as an upgrade/late game replacement for the Howie

Don't think I'll be adding another unit. The faction is big enough as it is. Might change the heli model a bit to look more like the apache, unless there is a better type of helicopter to make.

[wyvern]

I have two heli suggestions the Lynx and the Mi-24 Hind both are awesome and amazing

[Mr War]

Hey, the tank is a Challenger 1 not a Challenger 2. Cool detailed model, did you make that?

[Zoythrus]

also, gameplay-wise, what's the difference between the mortar and the howitzer? they seem to overlap too much, you may need to nix one (or replace it with the stun gun)...

Now that you mention it, I think we need to replace the Mortar with something else. What should it be? A stun gun (forget the name) or perhaps something a little more lethal? Not so sure how well a stun gun would hold up in terms of usage and usefulness. Plus, if we're going to kill them anyway, why not just do so right off the bat with some powerful explosive than stunning them first? Just find the logic behind a stun gun a bit weak. But at any rate, it should be replaced.

The howitzer uses HE rounds, and is technically anti-personal, though more indirect, and I'd love to use an "attack-location" if it gets implemented.

here's my solution: ditch the howitzer (not much of a "defense," for it's more of an offense thing), and make the mortar the anti-tank weapon. now, it may be slow, but here's what i think, make the "stun gun" a radiation device that fries infantry and slows down vehicles (not aircraft, though). you could use the excuse that tank crews are shielded from the radiation, but they have to slow down for fear of the tank's heat going above survivable limits (i mean, radiation and the engine, a deadly combination. also, the rad beam/mortar combo would work well together). as previously stated, the radiation beam would cook infantry quite easily, so it's their anti-inf weapon.

there, you now have a defense for all three unit types (boats would be weak to mortars too).

[Omega]

make the mortar the anti-tank weapon

Wouldn't make sense. It has a HE round, but they're driven by gravity. Not very effective against a tank.

make the "stun gun" a radiation device that fries infantry and slows down vehicles (not aircraft, though). you could use the excuse that tank crews are shielded from the radiation, but they have to slow down for fear of the tank's heat going above survivable limits (i mean, radiation and the engine, a deadly combination. also, the rad beam/mortar combo would work well together). as previously stated, the radiation beam would cook infantry quite easily, so it's their anti-inf weapon.

Opinions? Would such a weapon even be possible?

[John.d.h]

Opinions? Would such a weapon even be possible?

Yes.

[Ishmaru]

make the "stun gun" a radiation device that fries infantry and slows down vehicles (not aircraft, though). you could use the excuse that tank crews are shielded from the radiation, but they have to slow down for fear of the tank's heat going above survivable limits (i mean, radiation and the engine, a deadly combination. also, the rad beam/mortar combo would work well together). as previously stated, the radiation beam would cook infantry quite easily, so it's their anti-inf weapon.

I dont think such a weapon would fit UNATF as they are the "good guys" the Cult yes but a radiation beam seems incompatible with the Geneva convention...

[Zoythrus]

make the "stun gun" a radiation device that fries infantry and slows down vehicles (not aircraft, though). you could use the excuse that tank crews are shielded from the radiation, but they have to slow down for fear of the tank's heat going above survivable limits (i mean, radiation and the engine, a deadly combination. also, the rad beam/mortar combo would work well together). as previously stated, the radiation beam would cook infantry quite easily, so it's their anti-inf weapon.

I dont think such a weapon would fit UNATF as they are the "good guys" the Cult yes but a radiation beam seems incompatible with the Geneva convention...

it's based upon the Active Denial System, which is used as a less-than-lethal crowd control weapon (look at above post for link). the point here is that the microwaves that it shoots stun enemy units. it doesnt have to be entirely lethal to infantry, but it should do something bad to them. think of it like this: when the UNATF zap dudes with this beam (which hurts and stun/slows units), it's their way of attempting to deter enemy infantry from the ways of the Cult. like "we could turn this all the way and kill you immediately, but we want to give you one last chance to renounce your criminal ways." do the Cult infantry accept the offer? no. but you have to give the UNATF points for trying.

see? it's a peace-keeping weapon.
i vote 

[Omega]

Personally, just not so sure if it would be suitable. There's the problems with how the AI wouldn't be able to use it properly, as well, it doesn't stun, it just causes superficial pain which doesn't actually do any damage. Though, it is compatible with Geneva conventions, seeing that it has no side effects (uses radio waves) and apparently USA even put a few in their prisons.

Just can't help but think it feels like the wrong kind of weapon here though. Is there any other suggestions?


Also, regarding radiation, we won't go sci-fi (that's more for Constellus to do), though the cult will have a late game weapon of a dirty bomb, a special type of bomb that isn't nuclear itself, but is packed with extremely radioactive nuclear fallout and debris, with an initial explosion which is meant to spread this out. This is a true radiation weapon. Whereas a nuclear weapon kills mostly from the blast, a radiation weapon kills mostly from the toxic fallout. Oh, and yeah, they're against international law.

As well, if GAE gets some changes to their projectiles, then we may see a rather ambitious MIRV as the Cult's ultimate weapon.


EDIT: 0:48 GMT, 25 June 2011

Um... Crawling through GAE's source, I rediscovered a long long forgotten earthquake effect. While I haven't tested it to see how well it still works, I think it might be rather interesting for nukes to create a sort of mini earthquake on impact too.  The earthquake is linked to an attack skill, and doesn't do damage itself, but is a visual effect that sounds quite pretty, just reading what it does in the source (and understanding less than half of what I read ).

Code: (FPM's Priestess) [Select]

<earthquake>
<magnitude value="0.25"/>
<frequency value="1.5"/>
<speed value="4.75"/>
<duration value="8"/>
<radius value="10"/>
<initial-radius value="2.0"/>
<sound-file path="sounds/earthquake.wav"/>
<shifts-per-second value="10"/>
<shifts-per-second-var value="2"/>
<shift-length-multiplier x="1" y="0.25" z="1"/>
</earthquake>
I'll re-add it to the wiki after I finish the page I am currently editing, so that these things won't get "lost" again (know any other features that aren't on GAE/Features? Please tell me or add them yourself!).

[will]

Hey, the tank is a Challenger 1 not a Challenger 2. Cool detailed model, did you make that?

indeed, inquiring minds want to know!

[hailstone]

EDIT: 0:48 GMT, 25 June 2011

Um... Crawling through GAE's source, I rediscovered a long long forgotten earthquake effect. While I haven't tested it to see how well it still works, I think it might be rather interesting for nukes to create a sort of mini earthquake on impact too.  The earthquake is linked to an attack skill, and doesn't do damage itself, but is a visual effect that sounds quite pretty, just reading what it does in the source (and understanding less than half of what I read ).

Code: (FPM's Priestess) [Select]

<earthquake>
<magnitude value="0.25"/>
<frequency value="1.5"/>
<speed value="4.75"/>
<duration value="8"/>
<radius value="10"/>
<initial-radius value="2.0"/>
<sound-file path="sounds/earthquake.wav"/>
<shifts-per-second value="10"/>
<shifts-per-second-var value="2"/>
<shift-length-multiplier x="1" y="0.25" z="1"/>
</earthquake>
I'll re-add it to the wiki after I finish the page I am currently editing, so that these things won't get "lost" again (know any other features that aren't on GAE/Features? Please tell me or add them yourself!).

Does it actually do anything? Last I saw it was all commented out.

[Omega]

I haven't actually gotten around to testing it, it did work (to a minor degree) in the past, though I haven't tried it since...well, not since the time of Daniel Santos (ol' what's his name). I suppose it will have to be confirmed.

[wciow]

I tried the earthquake code a week or so ago but it didn't work so i think it must be commented out like Hailstone said.  I remember it working way back, but i suppose there is a good reason why its been removed for now 

[Zoythrus]

so, Omega, how much farther have you gotten since last progress update? anything new? or have you shut down work fully until 4.0?

[Omega]

so, Omega, how much farther have you gotten since last progress update? anything new? or have you shut down work fully until 4.0?

Been so busy with some other stuff I barely got past the planning. I'll do mucho work tomorrow.

[Omega]

Work underway, the Mortar was removed, and a few errors in the techtree map were fixed.



Since the Mortar is gone, we could use another defensive structure, maybe two. So far we have Active denial, any other ideas?

As well, the icons look lousy, so I'll be updating them with a new scheme. Units will have blue backgrounds, other actions will have green, while canceling actions will have red. Here's a few that I did so far. Attacks will generally have an image of the weapon or a projectile from it, hold position will have the same with a combination of the stop icon put in, as will guard and patrol. Bottom line, loads of unique images to ensure the best looking GUI too.



A bit of XML work has been done, though lots to do, since it will be done from the ground up, and all scenarios will be redone. Currently there are 32 units and 12 upgrades, more than any other Glest faction. All textures and images are being converted to PNG (G3DHack is excellent for that), and I'll have to be sure to do something about the unoptimized filesize of the Howitzer (may just remake the whole thing with more detail).

I do hope that we'll see random loading screens in GAE soon, as well as multiple particle systems (in fact, some parts of my planning are depending on multiple particle systems completely, so I'll be taking my time until those are implemented in GAE). As always, suggestions, ideas, and comments are all welcome.