Author Topic: Sun and Moon  (Read 143713 times)

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #50 on: 18 November 2008, 02:44:04 »
Quote from: "omega"
Ok, get a marble tex, and texture it! It looks good, but I'd really like to see it textured, not just a grey image...
I still have to learn how to use Blender and I'm not feeling quite that ambitious right now.  I might have a go at it in December when I'm on break from school.

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #51 on: 21 December 2008, 23:27:51 »
Alright, I took a look at "Blender: Noob to Pro", and I think I can safely say I'm way out of my league for now.  What I did manage to do, however, was get my AutoCAD *.dwg files turned into *.blend files by using Google SketchUp as an intermediary.  So now I present to you, four of my models in *.blend format, for you to play around with and (more importantly :P

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #52 on: 13 January 2009, 21:17:11 »
I know this is a really n00b request, but I'm hopeless when it comes to Blender.  Basically, there's a big hole in my Stone Circle that's not supposed to be there.  When I imported the model from AutoCAD via SketchUp, part of the top of the base went missing, so could somebody pretty please fix it for me?
Code: [Select]
[img]http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/2/l_2ce735eeac0743e5be9d2d5ccd0fd21f.png[/img]
Here's a link to download the model:
Code: [Select]
http://www.mediafire.com/file/kzdyt5ymyuw/stone_circle.blendand here's the texture I'm using:
Code: [Select]
http://www.mediafire.com/file/zj1z2dyjslc/stone_circle_tex.tga
Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: 29 October 2016, 06:00:40 by filux »

wciow

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #53 on: 13 January 2009, 22:38:43 »
I took a look at your model.
While Glest can handle 1700 faces comfortably I would suggest that you simplify the model.
You could easily make the model with 1/4 the amount of faces with almost no difference in overall geometry!
Also having lots of long thin polys is not a good idea since it causes problems with normals.

Check out my new Goblin faction - https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=9658.0

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #54 on: 14 January 2009, 03:39:53 »
I took a look at your model.
While Glest can handle 1700 faces comfortably I would suggest that you simplify the model.  You could easily make the model with 1/4 the amount of faces with almost no difference in overall geometry!
Any suggestions on how I should go about doing that? or should I just improvise?
Quote
Also having lots of long thin polys is not a good idea since it causes problems with normals.
Huh?  What do you mean by "problems with normals"?

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #55 on: 15 January 2009, 02:42:00 »
I think he means that they look bad when you look at them the thin way. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #56 on: 27 January 2009, 05:20:26 »
I'll try to make this post brief since I can't type with my left hand (smashed my fingertips in the hinges of my garage door :-[), but here's some more concept "art".  Just a little something I put together with TES Construction Set.  I'll say more when I can type properly. :lol:

Code: [Select]
[img]http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/636877d5e216c34a1308bf7ddfe7e78b6g.jpg[/img]Moon's light infantry unit.
Code: [Select]
[img]http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/30a3298c8e0668cff0524f3d9e6b26da6g.jpg[/img]Moon's heavy infantry unit.
Code: [Select]
[img]http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/2ca2854994ca97415b1a0a3c5337e3936g.jpg[/img]Sky's worker unit.

Edit: Uploaded the pics to a different site so they'd be higher quality.
« Last Edit: 8 October 2016, 07:26:19 by filux »

mictes

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #57 on: 27 January 2009, 19:01:14 »
is this not from the elder scrolls?

@kukac@

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #58 on: 27 January 2009, 19:06:36 »
Read carefully:

Quote
I put together with TES Construction Set.

Plus, it is noted on every picture, that it is made with TES CS.

mictes

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #59 on: 28 January 2009, 08:13:08 »
That is clear but it is legal to use it for glest???

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #60 on: 28 January 2009, 19:15:36 »
That is clear but it is legal to use it for glest???
No, since the textures and models are all owned by Bethesda Softworks.  That's why I tried to make it clear that I'm not trying to pass these off as my own creation.  However, I'm just using them as a visual aid to give a general idea of what these units *should* look like.  These models and textures should not, cannot, and will not be used in Glest.

Also, I need a new name for the Ancestral Warrior.  Any ideas?  I was initially going to make him some kind of ghost unit (literally a dead ancestor) but there wasn't really a niche for that, so I changed him to the basic Celtic wildman concept.  He should probably be covered in a lot of warpaint and tattoos, and maybe have another sword in his left hand.

Oh, and my fingers are feeling much better now. :)

modman

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #61 on: 28 January 2009, 22:46:47 »
Try animal-skin clothes.  That should fit your theme.  Leopard should be nice.

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #62 on: 29 January 2009, 06:57:17 »
Try animal-skin clothes.  That should fit your theme.  Leopard should be nice.
Yeah, I was thinking of having Moon's Shaman wearing a wolf pelt or something and Sky's Hunter should probably be decked out in animal bones and/or teeth.  A lot of Celtic warriors went to battle naked (and sometimes covered in grease) to make it harder for the enemy to grab onto them, so that's kinda what I was going for with the Ancestral Warrior, although to a lesser degree (mostly naked instead of completely naked).  Leopard print only looks good on leopards.

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #63 on: 13 February 2009, 20:49:31 »
I don't really have anything new to show you just yet, so here's just a progress report.  I've mostly been working on the storyline aspect of this mod, as I believe it is the most important part and should be the driving force behind it.  I believe all the units, scenarios, XMLs, etc, should come from the story, not the other way around, so before I get too heavily into the modding, I want to really develop the story and the setting.  Right now, I'm currently contemplating my colorful cast of characters (as well as being alliterative) and I've decided the following:
  • Moon will be two distinct yet somewhat-united cultures.  Although it is still one faction, I had noticed that some aspects are more savage and primal in nature (Ancestral Warrior, Shaman, Lycanthrope) while others were more advanced and civilized (Broch, Gallowglass), so I figured it should be two separate parts that come together to form the whole.  I'm currently calling them the Wild Ones and the High-Born, but hopefully I'll come up with much better names soon.
  • It looks like the story is going to require a new faction (I'll hold off on explaining it since I haven't figured it all out yet.) and I'll probably expand the tech trees a little, so Sky and Earth are being put on indefinite hold.  There's just no way to handle five different factions, each of which are bigger than Tech or Magic.  This third faction will serve both as enemies and (especially early on in the campaign) as creeps, as well as the force that sets the story into motion.  I might develop Sky and Earth eventually, but that will be much later.
  • Heroes are a must!  This will require a bit more modeling, but I plan on the heroes being variations of normal units (perhaps with a different face or a funny hat, for example) rather than totally new and separate.  However, heroes will serve a major part in the campaign, probably to the same degree that they do in WC3 or Age of Mythology (i.e. a big one!).
  • Sun and Moon will be a GAE mod.  Regular Glest simply doesn't have the capabilities to do what I want to do with it.  GAE doesn't have all the necessary features yet either (i.e. campaign mode), but hopefully they will in the not-too-distant future.
  • I might also make a simplified version for regular Glest, but the GAE version will be the main one.

That seems to be all for now.  When I've fleshed out my characters a bit more, I'll post again.  As always, I welcome your ideas and feedback.

gameboy

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #64 on: 16 February 2009, 08:01:04 »
I re-modeled the stone circle with less polygons and its textured too, here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?ngmzmgymnny

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #65 on: 17 February 2009, 06:26:29 »
I re-modeled the stone circle with less polygons and its textured too, here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?ngmzmgymnny
Thanks, I like it a lot!  The grass/moss/whatever around the bottom was a nice touch.

At @kukac@'s request, I'll give y'all a little snippet of the storyline so far.  I'm not very far into it and it's very much a work in progress, so it's just the general concept of how things should go, along with the important characters.

Long ago, the people of Rinarn were divided into two peoples.  The Wild Ones are said to have been born from a great tree and nursed by the she-wolf goddess at the beginning of time, while the High-Born are said to have been created by the moon god Vaydrin.  The Wild Ones were as unruly as wild beasts, but strong and fearless, while the High-Born were wise and industrious.  The two main characters here are the half-brothers Yandol and Dafuin.  An important note is that Yandol is from a Wild One mother, while Dafuin's mother is a High-Born, and the brothers represent the two cultures.  Yandol is fearless but rash while Dafuin is rational and hesitant.  The storyline can unfold in different ways depending on the choices that the player makes, but mainly there is the choice to follow the path of wisdom and the path of savagery.  You can read a little more about how that should work in-game here.

Some of Moon's units morph, and the brothers are no exception.  Yandol begins as a Shaman and, depending on the path the player takes, will either end up mastering his control over the magical forces that course through his veins, becoming a Moon Lord (powerful wizard), or will give into his bestial side and become a Lycanthrope (i.e. werewolf).  Dafuin starts out as a Serf (worker) but only stays that way for one or two scenarios.  Then he becomes a Kern (spearman), and later a Gallowglass (elite melee warrior).

The story begins with some strange things happening in the wilderness near the village of Two Rivers.  Chieftain Yeoder tasks his son Yandol with finding the source of the troubles.  Somehow, possibly through prophecy or fortune-telling, the brothers Yandol and Dafuin come to find out that the Lanto people (i.e. Sun faction) are planning an invasion.  Since the people of Rinarn (i.e. Moon faction) are mostly squabbling tribes, they need to be united so they can put up a good fight, so Yandol and Dafuin basically play the role of Vercingetorix here.  In case your history is a little rusty, he was the guy who united Gaul against the Roman Empire way back in the day.  First, the brothers have to unite a few neighboring tribes to muster up a force large enough to venture into enemy territory.  In the Lanto capital city, Horizon, there is held a long-lost relic once wielded by a great warrior, or perhaps the moon god Vaydrin himself, who led a united Rinarn nation to victory against a common enemy.  The tribes of Rinarn would gladly follow anyone bearing such a powerful symbol into battle against the Lanto.  Where the two paths really diverge is when the brothers get to Horizon.  They can either simply retrieve the weapon and flee the city, hoping that when they get back home the Lanto will not want to invade a strong and united nation, or they can invade and try to destroy the city, giving the Lanto a preemptive bloody nose but guaranteeing that they will invade no matter what.

I also have a vague concept of the Sun campaign's storyline, but nothing too concrete.  I just have ideas for the important characters and I know there will probably be some sort of power struggle between the queen and the High Matriarch (think of her as the pope) and the player will be caught in the middle of it.

I'm thinking way far ahead here (I have a lot of time to think on long bike rides...) but I was also thinking of having not only the campaigns having branches inside, but the overall storyline having different campaign branches.  This is the sort of thing I mean:

Here there are a total of six campaigns, the Sun and Moon ones that are open to begin with, and four more that can be unlocked, depending on how you complete the first two.  The secondary campaigns are meant as continuations of the previous, but possibly set a generation or two after.  The chart I really have in mind is over twice the size, but that's probably going to take until the year 2020. :)

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #66 on: 17 February 2009, 11:51:43 »
The chart I really have in mind is over twice the size, but that's probably going to take until the year 2020. :)
Eee... Try to get done by at least 2015 ok. I want to see this before I grow old and start getting wrinkles! ;D
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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #67 on: 17 February 2009, 17:28:31 »
Well, Johndh, if you wouldn't mind, I would start to eat your story up:

Quote
Long ago, the people of Rinarn were divided into two peoples.[...]

VS

Quote
Lanto people (i.e. Sun faction) [...] Since the people of Rinarn (i.e. Moon faction)

Now let's get one thing straight: we don't know this universe very well, we don't know now, that the Moon faction consist of the Wild Ones, and the High-born, or they are separate factions. From the first paragraph, I thought they are the Moon, but what I quoted second time, it isn't sure.

So: Rirarn(aka Moon)=Wild ones and High-born
or
Rirarn=Wild Ones; Lanto=High-born?

Quote
The Wild Ones were as unruly as wild beasts, but strong and fearless, while the High-Born were wise and industrious.

How could these different civilizations exist near each other for more than 5 years? They are like water and fire. They would at least a., kill each other b., share each others civilization (like romans to germans).

I haven't seen any other nations so far (you mentioned earth and sky sometime before), so I don't really understand, how could only two nations have problem with each other (they both have enough land, right?).

Quote
Yandol is from a Wild One mother, while Dafuin's mother is a High-Born,

And where was their father from?

Quote
The story begins with some strange things happening in the wilderness near the village of Two Rivers.  Chieftain Yeoder tasks his son Yandol with finding the source of the troubles.  Somehow, possibly through prophecy or fortune-telling, the brothers Yandol and Dafuin come to find out that the Lanto people (i.e. Sun faction) are planning an invasion.  Since the people of Rinarn (i.e. Moon faction) are mostly squabbling tribes, they need to be united so they can put up a good fight, so Yandol and Dafuin basically play the role of Vercingetorix here.

What do you mean strange thing, which needs to be investigated by the Chieftain's son himself? How does Dafuin get there? Why does the Sun faction attacks them (and where did they got their name from?)?

If Moon consists from Wild Ones and High-born, then

Why didn't the High-born united the others long time ago, if they are so wise and intelligent? I can't really imagine, that the High-born couldn't show some resist against the Sun, since they would be annihilated by the Wild Ones long time ago.

And why would the people follow Yandol and Dafuin? What will be the great deed which makes the people follow them?

Quote
or perhaps the moon god Vaydrin himself, who led a united Rinarn nation to victory against a common enemy.

1. If you writing the story, you should be objective. You are the one who should know that it's a legend, or a real thing. But the people in your stories shouldn't know every fact about the world.

2. So what's with this relic, what was posessed by the moon god, and not in the hands of the Wild Ones (?) High-born?

3. Why is Rirarn in such a danger, if they can unite against a common enemy? (It's very popular method IRL too.)

Quote
Where the two paths really diverge is when the brothers get to Horizon. 

All alone? Don't forget, that the people don't support them at this time (that's why they are going there!)

Quote
They can either simply retrieve the weapon and flee the city, hoping that when they get back home the Lanto will not want to invade a strong and united nation, or they can invade and try to destroy the city, giving the Lanto a preemptive bloody nose but guaranteeing that they will invade no matter what.

Oh, so they weren't united, and that was the only reason for Sun to attack Rirarn? And if they destroy the Lanto's capital city, (still all alone!) Lanto people will surely attack Rirarn? Why? Since they already lost much of their power, in a war without any normal reason, they will simply march into their own desperate death?

That's all I found for now, but don't forget, more eyes see more!

Oh, and thanks for allowing me to look into your work.
« Last Edit: 17 February 2009, 17:57:48 by @kukac@ »

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #68 on: 18 February 2009, 19:08:00 »
Well, Johndh, if you wouldn't mind, I would start to eat your story up:
Quote
Long ago, the people of Rinarn were divided into two peoples.[...]
VS
Quote
Lanto people (i.e. Sun faction) [...] Since the people of Rinarn (i.e. Moon faction)

Now let's get one thing straight: we don't know this universe very well, we don't know now, that the Moon faction consist of the Wild Ones, and the High-born, or they are separate factions. From the first paragraph, I thought they are the Moon, but what I quoted second time, it isn't sure.
Okay, sorry if some things are unclear.  I don't have most of my ideas written down and I only meant to do a summary, without including too much about the characters or the details, but it seems that you want that, so here goes.
Quote
So: Rirarn(aka Moon)=Wild ones and High-born
Yes, this one is correct.
Quote
Quote
The Wild Ones were as unruly as wild beasts, but strong and fearless, while the High-Born were wise and industrious.
How could these different civilizations exist near each other for more than 5 years? They are like water and fire. They would at least a., kill each other b., share each others civilization (like romans to germans).
The two groups do intermingle a little bit, and each has aspects of the other, but overall they are separate cultures.  Their coexistence is mostly peaceful and in most places they live separately.  The village of Two Rivers is one of the few places where they live side-by-side.
Quote
I haven't seen any other nations so far (you mentioned earth and sky sometime before), so I don't really understand, how could only two nations have problem with each other (they both have enough land, right?).
The reasons why the Lanto want to expand their territory will become more clear at a later date.  I really want to complete Earth and Sky eventually, but they have been put on hold until I'm done with Sun and Moon.
Quote
Quote
Yandol is from a Wild One mother, while Dafuin's mother is a High-Born,
And where was their father from?
I left out a lot of character details, so here's what I have written down for their father: "Originally from the village of Black Orchard, the brigand Yeoder and his band of ruffians seized control of Two Rivers almost three decades ago.  Although he was once a mighty warrior, at over fifty years of age, the chieftain's body and mind are starting to fail him.  The bastard son of a Wild One and an unnamed High-Born man, Yeoder was shunned during his youth for being a "mutt" and became a notorious robber as a result.  Despite once being both an outcast and a criminal, he has proven to be wise and just and Two Rivers has thus far prospered under his rule."  Yeoder's mother is Basha the Hag, who will have a minor role in the campaign.
Quote
Quote
The story begins with some strange things happening in the wilderness near the village of Two Rivers.  Chieftain Yeoder tasks his son Yandol with finding the source of the troubles.  Somehow, possibly through prophecy or fortune-telling, the brothers Yandol and Dafuin come to find out that the Lanto people (i.e. Sun faction) are planning an invasion.  Since the people of Rinarn (i.e. Moon faction) are mostly squabbling tribes, they need to be united so they can put up a good fight, so Yandol and Dafuin basically play the role of Vercingetorix here.
What do you mean strange thing, which needs to be investigated by the Chieftain's son himself? How does Dafuin get there? Why does the Sun faction attacks them (and where did they got their name from?)?
Strange things like monsters, dismembered bodies, groups of strange cultists, etc.  I haven't worked out all the details, but it should all point to the organization that is behind all of the trouble, which will become more clear later on.  (I'm not just going to give it away yet. ;))  Yandol, being the chieftain's son, has a minor leadership role and, being the village's Shaman, is more likely to be able to figure out what's going on since it involves things of the occult.  Dafuin is supposed to be building up a base camp, but he knows that his brother can be rash and reckless at times, so his men and he arm themselves and go to tag along with Yandol's group, trying to keep them out of trouble.  The Lanto are a desert-dwelling nation who worship the sun goddess Elondra, so they are called the people of the Sun.  They were once a large and mighty empire but over the ages they've dwindled down and been broken apart and they want to restore their former glory.  This is somewhat akin to Italy under the rule of Benito Mussolini, who wanted to make his nation like the Roman Empire.
Quote
If Moon consists from Wild Ones and High-born, then

Why didn't the High-born united the others long time ago, if they are so wise and intelligent? I can't really imagine, that the High-born couldn't show some resist against the Sun, since they would be annihilated by the Wild Ones long time ago.
At this point, the Rinarn can identify as a nation, but the area is mostly wilderness and the people are divided into many tribes and villages.  They've been united before, but it never lasts long.
Quote
And why would the people follow Yandol and Dafuin?
There are a few neighboring tribes that are willing to follow them early on.  Because of their father's reputation as a strong warrior and a good leader, they command a good amount of respect in that area.  They'll need to do something really great to get the rest of the people to follow them, though.
Quote
What will be the great deed which makes the people follow them?

Quote
or perhaps the moon god Vaydrin himself, who led a united Rinarn nation to victory against a common enemy.

1. If you writing the story, you should be objective. You are the one who should know that it's a legend, or a real thing. But the people in your stories shouldn't know every fact about the world.

2. So what's with this relic, what was posessed by the moon god, and not in the hands of the Wild Ones (?) High-born?

3. Why is Rirarn in such a danger, if they can unite against a common enemy? (It's very popular method IRL too.)
1. I was just throwing out ideas when it comes to who the relic was actually used by, as I haven't really finalized it yet, but I think it will have been used by some great hero who united the Rinarn against the Lanto back when they were a big empire.

2. I'm not sure what the relic is yet.  It's probably either some sort of weapon or a banner.  Since a banner probably wouldn't hold up against the wear-and-tear of time, I'm leaning more towards a weapon.  When the hero united Rinarn and led them against the Lanto, he brought ruin to a lot of their empire and won a lot of battles, but eventually died invading the capital city, Horizon.  That's why the relic is held there.

3. They haven't united in a long time.  Divided, they could be an easy target.

Quote
Quote
Where the two paths really diverge is when the brothers get to Horizon. 

All alone? Don't forget, that the people don't support them at this time (that's why they are going there!)

Quote
They can either simply retrieve the weapon and flee the city, hoping that when they get back home the Lanto will not want to invade a strong and united nation, or they can invade and try to destroy the city, giving the Lanto a preemptive bloody nose but guaranteeing that they will invade no matter what.

Oh, so they weren't united, and that was the only reason for Sun to attack Rirarn? And if they destroy the Lanto's capital city, (still all alone!) Lanto people will surely attack Rirarn? Why? Since they already lost much of their power, in a war without any normal reason, they will simply march into their own desperate death?
They're not going there alone.  They have the warriors from Two Rivers as well as the few neighboring tribes that were loyal to them in the beginning.  The Lanto really aren't expecting an attack on their capital.  It would be something like when Hannibal crossed the Alps and attacked the city of Rome.  Nobody expected Hannibal to cross the Alps, and they aren't expecting Yandol and Dafuin to venture that deep into the desert either.  The Lanto have lost a lot of their former power, but they're still pretty big and they still have a pretty strong army, so destroying their capital wouldn't cripple them, but it would hurt them enough that they would really want revenge.  The destruction of the World Trade Center launched two wars just by itself.  Imagine what would happen if the city got burnt to the ground instead.  We'd be talking about World War 3!  Also, Horizon is a major religious center so the Lanto queen would have the support of the High Matron (you can think of her as the pope) to attack Rinarn.
Quote
That's all I found for now, but don't forget, more eyes see more!

Oh, and thanks for allowing me to look into your work.
You're welcome, and thanks for the critique.

@kukac@

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #69 on: 21 February 2009, 10:50:18 »
Hi,

Sorry for the late reply, I didn't want to make a mothership sized post when I don't have time.

So let's see.

Quote
The two groups do intermingle a little bit, and each has aspects of the other, but overall they are separate cultures.  Their coexistence is mostly peaceful and in most places they live separately.  The village of Two Rivers is one of the few places where they live side-by-side.

I'm still wondering how it is possible for them to live close to each other without any problems. People fought a lot of wars during the history, yet, IG the Wild Ones and the High-born (seems) are more different the human and human.

Quote
The reasons why the Lanto want to expand their territory will become more clear at a later date.

You are sure an interesting figure. A storywriting usually starts with building the bases, the backstory of the whole tale. Because simply writing a story will make a lot of "why?" questions. Take a look at LotR, it had already an own world, and the story was just written in it.

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"Originally from the village of Black Orchard, the brigand Yeoder and his band of ruffians seized control of Two Rivers almost three decades ago.  Although he was once a mighty warrior, at over fifty years of age, the chieftain's body and mind are starting to fail him.  The bastard son of a Wild One and an unnamed High-Born man, Yeoder was shunned during his youth for being a "mutt" and became a notorious robber as a result.  Despite once being both an outcast and a criminal, he has proven to be wise and just and Two Rivers has thus far prospered under his rule."

I wonder how did he become a chieftain from a ruffian. I mean, people won't choose a bandit (or a mighty warrior?) as their leader. (but if he is a mighty warrior, maybe). Plus, it is quite rare (nowadays it's easier) to be in a position suitable for you. People will more likely choose someone with a famous ancient for their leader. Dynasty my friend.

One more thing before I forget: what is the setting? fantasy, sci-fi, or something else?

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Dafuin is supposed to be building up a base camp, but he knows that his brother can be rash and reckless at times, so his men and he arm themselves and go to tag along with Yandol's group, trying to keep them out of trouble.

Now that's it, they don't trust each other from the beginning, then how should they live together?

When something strange happens, does anyone build up a base camp? I thought they are used as outpost at war, not in solving a mystery.

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At this point, the Rinarn can identify as a nation, but the area is mostly wilderness and the people are divided into many tribes and villages.  They've been united before, but it never lasts long.

And yet, they still didn't kill each other.

But if they united every time when there was some problem, why can't they do it again?

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3. They haven't united in a long time.  Divided, they could be an easy target.

Still, it's a natural instinct to try to survive. They probably know that if they unite, the chances of survival will increase.

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They're not going there alone.  They have the warriors from Two Rivers as well as the few neighboring tribes that were loyal to them in the beginning.

So basically ~50 warriors will put a capital under siege (I bet they are cutting their supply lines, so the people inside the city will starve to hunger. I won't say how much time will pass until they send out the Grande Armée.).

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The Lanto really aren't expecting an attack on their capital.

There aren't even guards there...

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It would be something like when Hannibal crossed the Alps and attacked the city of Rome.  Nobody expected Hannibal to cross the Alps, and they aren't expecting Yandol and Dafuin to venture that deep into the desert either.

Hannibal crossed with a whole army. Meanwhile, Rome attacked Carthago, thus Hannibal ultimatly lost. I don't think it's good to conquer a city, with remaining nothing of your home. Plus, you are stuck in the middle of the enemy's territory without any reinforcements.

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they [Lanto] still have a pretty strong army, so destroying their capital wouldn't cripple them,

Yes, but the moral and the zeal will fall in deep.

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The destruction of the World Trade Center launched two wars just by itself.

It's a bit different in this globalized world. Plus the americans basically afraid of everyone.

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Imagine what would happen if the city got burnt to the ground instead.

We have seen it a lot of times~!

Ohh, since you are trying to use a strong campaign line, wouldn't this topic better in the GAE forum?
« Last Edit: 21 February 2009, 17:05:27 by @kukac@ »

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #70 on: 22 February 2009, 05:21:52 »
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The two groups do intermingle a little bit, and each has aspects of the other, but overall they are separate cultures.  Their coexistence is mostly peaceful and in most places they live separately.  The village of Two Rivers is one of the few places where they live side-by-side.
I'm still wondering how it is possible for them to live close to each other without any problems. People fought a lot of wars during the history, yet, IG the Wild Ones and the High-born (seems) are more different the human and human.
I guess there needs to be more emphasis on "MOSTLY peaceful".  That's not to say they don't fight and raid each other's villages from time to time, and they don't particularly like each other, but they stop short of wiping each other out.  Gaul would be a good example from real-life history.

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The reasons why the Lanto want to expand their territory will become more clear at a later date.
You are sure an interesting figure. A storywriting usually starts with building the bases, the backstory of the whole tale. Because simply writing a story will make a lot of "why?" questions. Take a look at LotR, it had already an own world, and the story was just written in it.
I guess I'll go ahead and say that on the surface it appears that the queen is trying to expand her empire, but there's really something more insidious going on.  The backstory, setting, etc, are mostly already worked out in my head, but there's really too much there for me to put it into text easily.  I'll clarify what I can.

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I wonder how did he become a chieftain from a ruffian. I mean, people won't choose a bandit (or a mighty warrior?) as their leader. (but if he is a mighty warrior, maybe). Plus, it is quite rare (nowadays it's easier) to be in a position suitable for you. People will more likely choose someone with a famous ancient for their leader. Dynasty my friend.
Ah yes, the key word here is "seized".  He wasn't chosen or born into the job, but took it by force.  Also, in times of savagery the line between soldier and bandit can be very blurry.

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One more thing before I forget: what is the setting? fantasy, sci-fi, or something else?
The setting is fantasy.  Although there are various fantasy monsters (phoenixes, cyclopes, etc), so far there aren't any human-like fantasy races like elves or orcs.

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Now that's it, they don't trust each other from the beginning, then how should they live together?
As much as Dafuin knows Yandol is a capable warrior, he also knows he's eager and over-confident, so he mostly wants to keep him from getting into a fight he can't win.  Their differences will be a major influence on the two paths, Yandol typically favoring the path of savagery, and Dafuin typically favoring the path of wisdom.

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When something strange happens, does anyone build up a base camp? I thought they are used as outpost at war, not in solving a mystery.
I'm actually thinking of scrapping most of the beginning of the story.  While the strange things happening and the Lanto invasion are semi-related, I can't really figure out how to make the story go from point A to point B.  The first part might become its own mini-campaign, perhaps as an introduction to the setting and short tutorial.

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At this point, the Rinarn can identify as a nation, but the area is mostly wilderness and the people are divided into many tribes and villages.  They've been united before, but it never lasts long.
But if they united every time when there was some problem, why can't they do it again?
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Still, it's a natural instinct to try to survive. They probably know that if they unite, the chances of survival will increase.
Groups like this usually need a strong leader to unite them, like Bodeccia (sp?) or Vercingtorix.  This is what Yandol and Dafuin are trying to do.  Just because it's rational for a group to unite, doesn't mean they will.  An example would be the colonization of North America.  If the natives would have banded together and presented a united front against the Europeans, they could have stood a fighting chance, but they didn't.

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So basically ~50 warriors will put a capital under siege (I bet they are cutting their supply lines, so the people inside the city will starve to hunger. I won't say how much time will pass until they send out the Grande Armée.).
That actually is a big hole in the plot.  I was initially planning to have them start fires all throughout the city (which would only take a couple people), but then I remembered that the Lanto don't have wooden buildings, so I'll probably have to scrap the whole idea and come up with something else for them to do, instead of destroying the city.  I think that addresses your next few points as well, so I'll go ahead without quoting them.

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It's a bit different in this globalized world. Plus the americans basically afraid of everyone.
Hahaha!  Too true.  I blame the news media for that.  For a while, they had most of thinking we couldn't get anywhere near an airplane without being ambushed by terrorists.

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Ohh, since you are trying to use a strong campaign line, wouldn't this topic better in the GAE forum?
I'm not very concerned with which board this is on.  If you feel the need to move it, feel free.  GAE seems to be more about developing the engine rather than developing content, though.

Once again, thanks for the feedback.  I'd like to hear what the rest of you think as well, so feel free to pitch in your own two cents.

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #71 on: 22 February 2009, 11:35:24 »
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The setting is fantasy.  Although there are various fantasy monsters (phoenixes, cyclopes, etc), so far there aren't any human-like fantasy races like elves or orcs.

Does the things you have written on the first page are still alive? If yes, the ruins of the old world, books, legends, ruined buildings might be still there.

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Quote from: Tales about the Old World
    - Greatfather, tell us something what never no one told us before!
    - Internet.

I don't think orcs and elves are suitable in a fantasy world like this. They are just fox hides anyway.

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I'm actually thinking of scrapping most of the beginning of the story.  While the strange things happening and the Lanto invasion are semi-related, I can't really figure out how to make the story go from point A to point B.  The first part might become its own mini-campaign, perhaps as an introduction to the setting and short tutorial.

When you are done with the base story, you should make the whole thing interesting, what keeps the players playing, makes them want to unreveal more and more secrets. Being interesting is a base of every story.

I agree with the first part being a tutorial like mini-campaign.

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Groups like this usually need a strong leader to unite them, like Bodeccia (sp?) or Vercingtorix.  This is what Yandol and Dafuin are trying to do.  Just because it's rational for a group to unite, doesn't mean they will.  An example would be the colonization of North America.  If the natives would have banded together and presented a united front against the Europeans, they could have stood a fighting chance, but they didn't.

The natives of america were quite separated from each other, plus the europeans didn't start an all out war from the beginning. Wouldn't be the Napoléonic wars better for reference?

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That actually is a big hole in the plot.  I was initially planning to have them start fires all throughout the city (which would only take a couple people), but then I remembered that the Lanto don't have wooden buildings, so I'll probably have to scrap the whole idea and come up with something else for them to do, instead of destroying the city.

Ahh, a stealth mission  8)

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I'm not very concerned with which board this is on.  If you feel the need to move it, feel free.  GAE seems to be more about developing the engine rather than developing content, though.

Shouldn't you ask Daniel about that?

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I'd like to hear what the rest of you think as well, so feel free to pitch in your own two cents.

They may still trying to decode reply #65.  :D The page started with #50, and the last 5 posts take more than the half of the page.
« Last Edit: 29 October 2016, 06:02:02 by filux »

John.d.h

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #72 on: 23 February 2009, 02:57:02 »
Does the things you have written on the first page are still alive? If yes, the ruins of the old world, books, legends, ruined buildings might be still there.
Code: [Select]
[url=http://www.onemanga.com/Psyren/59/19/]Like this[/url]
That was initially what I had in mind, but I'm not sure if I want to keep using the post-apocalyptic idea or not.  I might just save it for another story some other day.  I feel like if I kept using that, it would have to be a much bigger part of the story, like in the Fallout games or Mad Max, and that's not really what I'm trying to make.  If I do keep using it, there would just be a few places where anything is left from the old world, and almost all of it would be too old and decayed to be useful.
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I don't think orcs and elves are suitable in a fantasy world like this. They are just fox hides anyway.
I agree, but what do you mean by fox hides? ???
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When you are done with the base story, you should make the whole thing interesting, what keeps the players playing, makes them want to unreveal more and more secrets. Being interesting is a base of every story.
Very true.  I always prefer games with good stories, and stories are nothing without good characters (in my opinion, anyway).
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I agree with the first part being a tutorial like mini-campaign.
Seeing as the different factions will work a little different (just like how Tech and Magic are different), I might make a short tutorial for each, so players can get used to how each of them works.
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The natives of america were quite separated from each other, plus the europeans didn't start an all out war from the beginning. Wouldn't be the Napoléonic wars better for reference?
I wouldn't know.  That's not an era with which I'm very familiar. :-[
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Shouldn't you ask Daniel about that?
If I were really worried about it, then I would, but which board this is on doesn't make a difference to me.
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They may still trying to decode reply #65.  :D The page started with #50, and the last 5 posts take more than the half of the page.
Yeah, sometimes I think the reason why I don't get very many replies is because people don't bother reading my long posts.
« Last Edit: 29 October 2016, 06:02:19 by filux »

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #73 on: 23 February 2009, 10:01:57 »
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That was initially what I had in mind, but I'm not sure if I want to keep using the post-apocalyptic idea or not.  I might just save it for another story some other day.  I feel like if I kept using that, it would have to be a much bigger part of the story, like in the Fallout games or Mad Max, and that's not really what I'm trying to make.  If I do keep using it, there would just be a few places where anything is left from the old world, and almost all of it would be too old and decayed to be useful.

Murphy's law: If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

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I agree, but what do you mean by fox hides? ???

Sorry, I translated it literally: I mean one idea is used over and over again.

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I wouldn't know.  That's not an era with which I'm very familiar. :-[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leipzig

Napoléon VS everyone else.  ;)

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Yeah, sometimes I think the reason why I don't get very many replies is because people don't bother reading my long posts.

As things becoming more clear, our posts are shortening.

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Re: Sun and Moon
« Reply #74 on: 6 March 2009, 02:53:52 »
Okay, everybody.  Sorry it's been so long since I've posted anything, but I've been busy with projects, house-hunting, and moving (again... ugh! >:(), and I don't really have much new content to show off right now, but here's an idea that I've had bouncing around inside my head for a while.  What if the second-generation campaigns I was referring to here...
... had different tech trees from the first-generation campaigns, representing the different paths of development that each of these civilizations would have gone through?  For Moon's path of wisdom, the Shaman would be replaced by a different spellcasting unit (Sage), the Lycanthrope would be replaced by something like the Archmage (Moon Lord), and the Shaman's summoned monsters would be replaced by something else (probably more human troops and maybe war dogs instead of wolves).  For savagery, the Kern would be replaced by an axe-thrower and the Gallowglass would be replaced by a powerful berserker.  Of course, this would require creating new models and XMLs (only a couple more) but I think it would be very fitting to what I have in mind here.  I would also do something similar with the Sun faction, but I haven't developed their story enough to tell what would happen with them.

What do y'all think of this idea?  Is it worth pursuing eventually?