Elf Faction 0.9.7 & 2.0A (Both MG Compatible)

[gameboy]

Here's the 7z omega.
http://www.mediafire.com/?dmwjttietny
  - 62MB
About the AI I don't know whats wrong, I mean if they start with lots of resources they attack and all that but with normal resources they just lounge around doing nothing.
And I took so long doing the animations, man  it was boring, but I'll try to minimize the file size in the next release.

[gameboy]

did anyone read the document I included if not please do, it describes all the units and has a GK page full of info.

[wciow]

About the AI I don't know whats wrong, I mean if they start with lots of resources they attack and all that but with normal resources they just lounge around doing nothing.

I don't think the AI understands how to use the tree and grace resources. They never produce these and simply rely on what they start with. Once this runs out they stop producing.

Also you might want to try switching the academy and wood hall in the elf's build order. ATM they tend to build alot of wood halls and loads of minstrels.

Some of the late game units are very overpowered. A respected prince has over 6000 HP (with regen), lots of armour and 6 instant kills!

[modman]

Probably if there's nothing else to do; testing takes a good chunk of time though.
(Also requires Glest to be installed, and his boss  might not like that)

Slightly OT:
I think Magitech should have an elves faction, but the trick is to make it so it's not a total rip-off on this faction.

[gameboy]

Probably if there's nothing else to do; testing takes a good chunk of time though.
(Also requires Glest to be installed, and his boss  might not like that)

Slightly OT:
I think Magitech should have an elves faction, but the trick is to make it so it's not a total rip-off on this faction.

Who's boss?

And the Elves faction is for magitech.

About the Prince I think i'll remove the respected level. The next version will have new sounds and the final version will be the one that works (hopefully) and is balanced.

I'm wondering, should I remove the tree resource and allow elves to cut wood or should I remove tree and let the elves have 3 resources, because currently that seems to be the only option if we want the AI to work. Of course we could balance them by making their resource harvest slower.

[modman]

I saw something about the resources and the AI problem a couple days ago.  It is below:

No.
I think it has to do with the faction.xml.

You may be right, but I think it more has to do with the AI programing. I had a problem with that a while ago and just decided to restore all resources the way they were and build my mod around gold wood food and stone. Now i have an issue that when I delete the wood resource the AI would just build anything it can with the starting resources it has but will not harvest anything.

Maybe its because you are playing on a map that has extra resources than the mod does not have? (ex map has 3 different resources, while mod only uses 2.) Ill experiment with that later.

It would be nice to know exactly how the AI logic is set up, at least about how it builds and harvest. That would help tremendously.

I kind of thought that this faction was for Ardhon, which would have about 5 factions in it, but apparently not.
I was going to design a Elves faction for Magitech, and so I was doing research and I found this.  It has lots of ideas for units and I like some of them a lot (especially the unicorn and the forest dragon).

I think they would be a great addition to your faction, Gameboy, and I've played other games with those units in elven factions, so it's nothing radical or new.

[Omega]

Downloading... I'll give my opinion tomorrow. Does the AI work or not though? (will try later today)

[gameboy]

I kind of thought that this faction was for Ardhon, which would have about 5 factions in it, but apparently not.
I was going to design a Elves faction for Magitech, and so I was doing research and I found this.  It has lots of ideas for units and I like some of them a lot (especially the unicorn and the forest dragon).

I think they would be a great addition to your faction, Gameboy, and I've played other games with those units in elven factions, so it's nothing radical or new.

No, this faction is a shrunken version of the Ardhon faction, the Ardhon one is much bigger with about 30 units.

This faction is mostly based on LOTR and Tolkien's writings, the only exception is the Tree of Life and the Gryphon which are not part of Tolkien's world. And I don't like the idea of a dragon for the elves. More info
on the faction is in the HTML file.

[Omega]

TESTED, Improvements:

• Wisdom (the elve upgrade to wise elf) should have a discount
• Corral can hold food, even though food is never used
• Silver Helm Lancer, underpowered? (reaver can kill a unit almost as fast, not quite, but close)
• Griffon's seige attack doesn't work at times (animation works, EP is reduced, but no damage)
• Animation speed for corrol is too high when training a unit (horse rocks its head at lightspeed)
• Archer, should melee attack be more powerful than bow?
• Does trees attack work? (lack of EP in XML)
• Units range is much longer than any in magic or tech, which makes an unfair advantage
• OVERPOWERED - 16 Grey Elf Archers decimated the entire tech base losing only 1 man, another example is just five ents destroying a base with their seige attack, one death.
• Possible source of AI trouble, doesn't use Sanctuary (no grace) (wonder if its because it costs no resources?)
• AI don't harvest stone

Now, away from the bad things. I really like the faction, but the AI troubles force you to play against magic or tech, which the elves are too strong against. The models are great, I give you that. The icons are superb. Good sound, and everything is quite nice. If you'd like me to fix most of the things I complained about above (except AI, though I'll try...) tell me and I'll just do the xmls, keeping them in folder layout so that you can copy and paste, overwritting the few files.

I need to update glest.110mb.com soon to accompany this. I've already got a complaint of the magitech section (should have tips for using the units) and another complaint about it being post dated (version 3.2 official release). I also need to improve the mods to include Persian (great, one of my personal favs) and Elves (great, but AI and balancing problems).

Here's a temporary rough rating for Elves:
Models: 5/5 - Flawless, but large filesize
Images: 5/5 - Best I've ever seen
AI: 2/5 - Problems here
Sounds: 5/5 - Very good
Balance: 2.5/5 - range is way too high, some units have much higher attack than other magitech
Fun: 5/5 - Very fun

Overall: 4/5 - Very good

Comments: Very fun to play, some AI troubles, but hopefully that will improve, along with balance issues. Very good models, textures, and icons. Infact, some of the best I've seen. Congratulations on a great mod! *NOTE: GAE version untested

I think I could make one helluva good documentary thing (webpage) for it. With your permission, I'd like to be able to improve the existing one, adding backgrounds, and a nice, neat html documentation that uses CSS. I'll also give it tabs with DHTML drop down menus. I can add some information, and so on... I'll give you a copy for a later release of the faction, as well as upload it into glest.110mb.com.
"What say you?"

EDIT// Here's my sample. Now, I worked hard on it, so if you want it improved, say so. Links are currently nothing because I only made the index page so far... Accept it, though, please.

EDIT2// The little text thing is because I just wanted a rough outline for a menu. The menu may not be exactly as shown....
glest.110mb.com/elves/

ENJOY,
   ~Omega

[Omega]

Sorry for double posting...

Next version is ready, but still needs to be uploaded. I need a few things:
-tech tree map i8mage (it's probably somewhere in this thread).
-The next version will have wqhite text after modman stated that the black was harder to read.
-Next version is ready with proper drop down menus. Images page is done, but I would like a few more images....

[gameboy]

Thanks omega!!!
I like the website, very nice, I appreciate what your doing, I'll get some images done soon, how about a header and  a banner?
BTW there are some images at the moddb website  http://www.moddb.com/mods/elves-faction
yes you can do the XML's, if you do i'll be greatly in your debt.
About the balancing.
1) Wisdom - Yes it should have a discount.
2) Corral - something I overlooked.
3) Silver Helm - Reaver - If your gonna tweak this, the Reaver should be made weaker, the silver helm should stay as it is.
4) Gryphon - I have no Idea why?
5) Archer - melee should be weaker the ranged attack.
6) The big tree can attack after mystical forest is researched.
7) Unit range and LOS - Elves have great eyesight, so whatever your doing it should be more than magic and tech.
Overpowered  - do whatever necessary.

Once again thanks!

[modman]

If I could give a word of advice: Omega, do not counter the Elves' overpowered-ness by making the units more expensive, because that is simply a delay.  You need to make them less powerful.  A strong, expensive army beats a weak, cheap one any day at the time in the game which you are getting the faction's powerful units.

[Omega]

I agree with modman completely. For balancing, I'll have to experiment, but what I must for sure do is reduce the stats. Look at the prince and its health. Other units also have massive health and attack. The grey archer should be very close to the normal archer (same attack, one more range, maybe?). Elves should have great LOS, but if the range is too high, this makes things way over balanced. No higher than the LOS of magitech, or else they can attack and kill the units without even being attacked. Gonna try to equlize the stats, but don't expect it too soon (NOTE: if you release another version before I finish, the XMLs of mine might be post dated) I think the griffon might be the attack delay (just a guess, don't even know if it has one) too high and the attack doesn't perform. The reaver will be slightly more powerful than the grey archer, but will have shortened range (high speed, bit more health).

I probably won't change any costs, unless someone thinks I should?


Concerning Webpage:
header? Do you mean like the elves logo? Is that the banner? If you got one, send it to me, because your image making skills best mine. (If you want, send me frames and I can make an animated GIF).

[-Archmage-]

on my elves download i've fixed the gryphon

here's the download:
     http://www.mediafire.com/?aodmy0ew0gm

plus i changed the sound a little(i think)

[Omega]

Here, I've finished the first version of the balancing. Bugs seem to be fixed, and the faction is far more balanced. Not perfect yet, so please posat any suggestions. AI still does not function properly (my guess is the grace resource). Tested twice against tech, but I want to have others try it too. The more different play styles, the better.

Changes:(Does not reflect every change)
+Changes to most unit stats
+Big tree given EP, attack works
+Corral animation speed fixed
-Corral Gryphons Nest food removed
-Ent attack weaker, less health
-Ent seige weakened, range reduced
+Galadrim Archer attack improved, range shortened
+Grey Elf Archer attack improved, range shortened
+Gryphon seige fixed, now works
+Gryphon air attack improved
+Gryphon Rider attack improved, range shortened
+Huorn more defense, guard-like
+Standardized Magol-Hedir stats
+Ministral attack improved
-Prince Health decreased, regen as well
+Prince attack improved, range lowered
+Prince defense stanardized
-Reaver weakened, power just above Grey Archer with less range
+Silver Helm lancer standardized
+Tree circle resources improved
+Tree of Life, more health, less regen
+Wise Elf attack overhauled, more vulnerable unit with splash attack
+Wise Elf range dropped, standardized
+New particle proj and splash for Wise Elf
+Gave Wood Guard Uprooted 100% discount to prevent costs of continuious uprooting
-Made Wood Guard Uprooted More vulnerable
+Wood Hall health increased, resources standardized
+Ent Water upgrade improved
+Mystical Forest upgrade fixed
-Slowed time for Noldor Armor Crafting
+Standardized Noldor Weaponry
+Decreased Quenya's cost, increased effect
+Silverthorn arrows affects all bow users by less ammount
-Slowed silverthorn arrows upgrade speed
+Fixed some rogue regen rates
+Many small misc changes in stats, etc

BETA TESTING REQUIRED!

OBSERVATIONS (Elves VS Tech):
-Elves can get units up faster than the tech AI, but that's because human intelligence has a strategy, unlike a mindless machine
-Large groups of ranged units can be very powerful
-Performs exceptionally good against air units
-Ents difficult to take down on your own, but easy if ganged up on
-Ranged units can take out melee units like the guard and horseman without detection, rare though, since archers usually accompany them. Tech's archers can do this as well, though
-Very heavily based on range, which means that elves VS elves battles would be great if not for the AI problem
-Improved!

Here's the download, but note that I only roughly tested it. I am uploading it so that other can test it. Please submit any suggestions that can help improve its balance.
http://www.mediafire.com/?2w39mn3e52b

What do you think gAMeboy? All bugs except AI (at least all that I know of) fixed, balancing very good, fixed wood guardian arrow problem, and few randoms fixes. Evened out, but AI still acts like ****. Something to do with the grace...


EDIT// Also, check out the new version of the webpage at glest.110mb.com/elves. Only problem is that the menu will not drop down until the page is completely loaded, but that's not too big of a deal since it took my dial-up only about 10 seconds to load. The only pages done are the home page and the images (elves>images) page.

[gameboy]

Thanks omega, i'll try it  out soon.
BTW I made a header(masthead), footer and a banner image.
http://www.mediafire.com/?3jyzjyy4ljm
also included is the tech tree image and a stonework image, I thought that you could use that as a background.
Another thing, this just hit me, I was check out the XML's and I saw that the sanctuary does not cost a negative amount of grace, in fact it doesn't  cost grace at all, this might be the problem.

[-Archmage-]

<original>
          omega?

          about the download(link works ok) did you mean us to install each xml for each unit and upgrade? ???

          cause i checked the files

          your missing images, models, and sounds on all units and upgrades, all the XMLs were there, which of course were asking for images, models, and sounds

          i'll put them together and post them for you, alrighty?
<original>

dude actually i'm gonna have to just leave it at the question because i just screwed up my whole elves thing while i was transferring the files around so i'm not going to do the transferring sorry

[gameboy]

those were just the xml's no models, you're supposed to replace the exisisting xml's.

[huntermeca]

I play with elves (they are balanced with dwarves!)

You need to change some little thing:
-Grey elf archer can morph in galadrim archer
-Reduce the walk speed of Ent to 300
-Reducethe speed of the huorn to 0 (it is facultative)

Huntermeca

[-Archmage-]

well i'd put the ents walking speed at 150 and make it look like he's walking that fast like this <speed value="150"/>
                                                                                                                             <anim-speed value="50"/>

cause then it would look realistic

[wciow]

I play with elves (they are balanced with dwarves!)

I've been testing against Elves even though they aren't finished or balanced yet.
Dwarf vs Elf Battles are great!

-Reduce the walk speed of Ent to 300

Yeah whats with the super fast Ents  ??? They're like twice the speed of cavalry.
I thought Ents were slow but powerful units.

[gameboy]

Something I overlooked, I guess.
As for the grey elf to galadrim morph, the two culture are quite different and they both have their special abilities, the grey elf is faster and has more range and the galadrim has more armour and a stronger attack but move slower.

[Omega]

Copy and paste, it'll automatically merge and over write. Much easier. Took me one second (not counting the click) to install and test all.

[gameboy]

Hows the webpage coming omega?

[Omega]

It's getting there. Almost done the strategy section (I hit a bump with my MI report for school).

I won't upload until I'm completely done the entire site though.

*One question: how'd you make the cartoonish images for the units? I can't seem to do it in GIMP. Paint.NET can do it fairly well, but its not the same. Just curious.
Oh, and I'm having a little fun learning GIMP recently (heh, at last). Alpha to Logo is pretty handy...