Author Topic: Harvesting "Big Trees"  (Read 4954 times)

titi

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Harvesting "Big Trees"
« on: 19 November 2008, 08:21:22 »
There is a discussion going on if so called "big trees" should be harvestable or not.

Here is what I think:
I (personally) don't like this idea very much because this will change the whole gameplay!
Lots of maps will completely change when this feature will be added and cannot be played any more the normal way, because ways that are meant to be impassable suddenly can get passable in the game and some places suddenly get too much wood ressources.
For me it's more a problem of the tileset if you can't see that theses models (only called big tree in the tilesets xml! ) look like harvestable trees!


So, this is only my opinion, but what do you think about this? Discuss!
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Idanwin

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #1 on: 19 November 2008, 11:43:26 »
Maybe we should make the "big rocks" harvestable too.

titi

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #2 on: 19 November 2008, 12:32:10 »
What about this idea :

1. All possible ressources like stone/gold/tree(wood) are in the tileset. By this a tileset can change the look of gold/stone too! This is something really annoying at the moment!
2. In the tech tree you can say what is harvestable as ressource and what not.

This will give us current behaviour and changed behaviour for future use.
But I still doesn't like the idea very much. Nevertheless 1. is a good idea and should be builtin in the future.
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Idanwin

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #3 on: 19 November 2008, 13:56:44 »
In that case it would depend on the maker of the tileset.
I think that is a good idea.

The main tilesets could stay the same but custom tilesets could have harvestable big trees.

titi

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #4 on: 19 November 2008, 14:29:49 »
No, thats not what I meant, but another good idea! :)
This is something that would fit with the current possibility of making object impassable in one tileset and passable in another.!

What I wanted to say is that the creator of the techtree decides whats harvestable and what not! By this the tilesets stay the same.

But all these possibilities will bring us incompatible maps/tileset/techtree combinations and thats the reason why I don't like the idea very much yet.
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Idanwin

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #5 on: 19 November 2008, 21:18:44 »
Or maybe you could select "Harvestable Big trees" in the new game menu.
And the maker of the map could also lock harvestable big trees if needed.

modman

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #6 on: 20 November 2008, 01:14:09 »
Then you'd have to make a whole new tileset for your faction if it uses some resource not in the tileset.  I say no, titi.

titi

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #7 on: 20 November 2008, 08:12:11 »
I don't understand? Why do you need new tilesets then? Thats exactly what I not wanted to happen! Please explain it a bit more detailed.
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Idanwin

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #8 on: 20 November 2008, 17:27:42 »
with titis idea you don't need to do that (if I understood it right)

daniel.santos

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #9 on: 27 November 2008, 01:27:17 »
Sorry I hadn't participated in this conversation much, I've been a bit tied up and will be until next week.  Because I haven't played around enough with community developed maps, I fail to appreciate this.  As I understand it there are two separate issues, one of functionality and the other of aesthetics.  Functionally, the map maker needs reliable methods of creating blockades, so we have these nice pinch points like in Overgrown City (one of the few I've looked at).  Next, we need a variety of ways to do this to be aesthetically appealing and believable (matching the theme of the map).

One thing we don't have (yet) in Glest or GAE is cliff walls, or blockages caused only because of the incline or decline in the map, this should help -- but also a way to have broken ground, so it's not just a very steep grassy surface, because in nature, the ground breaks and exposes the dirt, rocks and layers when this happens (usually because of water erosion).  That's what I think is needed, but that's probably a topic for another day because it will involve bumping the map version and having a new map standard as well as making sure that both map versions are supported.  If we're bumping the map version (i.e., adding to the map format) I'm personally in support of better water functionality, so we can have bodies of water at different altitudes and flowing water (water falls) and also have differing water behaviour, like the difference between waves in a lake and waves on an ocean shore (although we can probably manage that via examining water depths).

But back to the original topic, I guess the best thing to do is leave it like it is for now, or make it a setting when the game is started, but in the future, I believe that there should be a better visual distinction between a map object that is harvestable and one that is not.  I also think that the minimap should have some way of illustrating what is walk-able and what isn't (also another topic).

modman

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #10 on: 29 November 2008, 02:59:25 »
I don't think that there should be anything different.  The two objects are the same to allow the map map maker to restrict access to a location (mostly the edges because of Fog of War) without a visual change; it just looks wierd to have different trees at those places.

Plus, if the maker of the map wanted anything other than non walkable trees, they would have put them in; nobody who is experienced will put in non harvestable "big trees" without wanting to.

daniel.santos

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #11 on: 2 December 2008, 02:00:23 »
Good point.  I don't remember which map I played that annoyed me so much, but I built a summoner's guild right next to it and my initiates kept having to walk around it. :(  We'll just leave this one alone for now.

Omega

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Re: Harvesting "Big Trees"
« Reply #12 on: 4 December 2008, 15:53:00 »
For the big trees, just let the map maker choose an option (default: off). The map maker could use a fix, and really needs an undo/redo button. (That would keep history of the actions, and undo goes back one time in history)
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