Off Topic - Main

[the warlord of the reich]

anti-blade leathers? pretty wierd. i would like to see one.

[wyvern]

some of it is due to the poor quality of saracen blades but believe it or not leather is not such a poor type of armor, especially considering its cost, and light weight

[the warlord of the reich]

its stats should be like this.

weigh: light
defense security: low
cost: medium-low

but i was wondering. if a piece of leather could provide a defense it should be havy and exhausting in hot weather because its a thick levels of leathers to provide limited defense against blades.

sarcans cared about their blades. since the begine of the islamic revolt. sharpening blade is a most likley tredetion to sharpen blades even when theres no incoming fights. because a sarcan would want to cut the enemy's head more then just stabbing him. its the purpose of scimiters to cut so it would be regulary sharp instead of poor even without a sarcancarrying it.

[wyvern]

I read reveral books that said the saracen cavalries bows and scimitars were unable to penetrate the leather and quilted jerkins worn by crusader troops, it was hot equipment in the desert but not very thick, obviously it won't help versus guns, crossbows and longbows but even plate mail won't help there, against long swords it is poor but saracen light cavalry didn't use those I think, spears could penetrate it but as I said the skirmishers weapons were usually a short bow and scimitar.

[the warlord of the reich]

mm. i wonder, the scimiter is for cutting. it woud just pass thru the leather. because of the bloody sharp blade.

and an arabian type of sword is better then a scimiter. scimiters were used very very few. the arabian sword is for stabbing and cutting and its light and dodgy and shrap. and leather that providess defense against any blades would VERY regulary heavy as thick. because a its levels of leathers. it would be thick like crazy and heavy and in the hot deserts near iraq it will bring its awfull effect to the user. it would surley hinder the guy wearing it because it would be like a heavy blanket. no to mention. all this only provides limited defenses. but it would bring covver against arrows and stones i'd say. a close range and a strong bow would pentrate so easy. even a chainmailwont take that!

also leather armor would suck up the energy from an attack like a kick or a punch or something like that. the user of leather wont feel all the pain from the hit

[wyvern]

I don't know, arabian swords might be of better quality but I'm talking the saracens an their light cavalry cavalry used almost only scimitars and short bows. As john said you should test out the strength of normal shoe leather for yourself use a shoe and put a hole through it with a knife, its not so easy an I tried it by the way.

[the warlord of the reich]

not easy because you stabbed it.have you? the knive is made for cutting purposes. iwhat kind of knives?

hard but not hard enough. you will be able to reach the body without too much rough work. but the leather would have soaked up the energy of the attack and you cant continue your cutting through the flesh. you'll have to strike a fatal hit toreach the skin and cut thru.

[wyvern]

I don't know the shoes were pretty good but old and the knife was a freshly sharpened kitchen knife. Also, realize that the quality of the weapons used by crusader and saracen alike was not the quality to be seen a couple hundred years later.

[Mark]

Leather is susceptible to mainly to blunt force blows and piercing wounds.  When the crusaders fought the Seljuks and Saracens, they were regularly confronted by archers and scimitar-wielding infantry.  The scimitars were not effective against the crusader broadswords, but the arrows were.  Even knights who had full hauberks of mail fell from arrow wounds in unprotected, or weakly protected areas.  And the scimitar-wielding muslims would simply stab into unprotected parts of a mail hauberk, like the armpit, where the scimitar could pierce the hardened leather jerkins. 

And about the experiment with the leather shoe, I would imagine the leather not giving at all, or at least making the job incredibly difficult.  But, with the full swing of an arm and the momentum of a horse's body carried with the hunk of metal, the leather wouldn't necessarily do so well.  And magitech does note this.  I don't know the numbers, but I know that if you had an enemy swordsman coming at your unit, all other things being equal, you would counter the swordsman with a piercing attack.  The multiplier handles leather well.

[ultifd]

Hmm...if anyone wants to, they can get Age of Empires III: complete collection for 10 cents...
link

[Omega]

Hmm...if anyone wants to, they can get Age of Empires III: complete collection for 10 cents...
link

Wow... Now there's no excuse to use an illegal version... If you can't afford a dime, you don't deserve a computer.

[the warlord of the reich]

that would be 47% true omega. its 47% because i agree with ultified and heres a list for some stuff made me agree:

(1) because its cheaper then th legal.
(2) ultified is a friend of mine.
(3) omega deleted some of my posts

[wyvern]

Leather is susceptible to mainly to blunt force blows and piercing wounds.  When the crusaders fought the Seljuks and Saracens, they were regularly confronted by archers and scimitar-wielding infantry.  The scimitars were not effective against the crusader broadswords, but the arrows were.  Even knights who had full hauberks of mail fell from arrow wounds in unprotected, or weakly protected areas.  And the scimitar-wielding muslims would simply stab into unprotected parts of a mail hauberk, like the armpit, where the scimitar could pierce the hardened leather jerkins. 

And about the experiment with the leather shoe, I would imagine the leather not giving at all, or at least making the job incredibly difficult.  But, with the full swing of an arm and the momentum of a horse's body carried with the hunk of metal, the leather wouldn't necessarily do so well.  And magitech does note this.  I don't know the numbers, but I know that if you had an enemy swordsman coming at your unit, all other things being equal, you would counter the swordsman with a piercing attack.  The multiplier handles leather well.

Actually the bows of the time were very weak and relied on the mass barrage hitting vulnerable points in the face or arms, the leather was more then enough to stop them, several accounts tell of soldiers marching unhurt with arrows sticking in the leather jerkins. Also the scimitars were more for slashing so their stabbing ability is in doubt, though I do agree that knives and spears could penetrate the armpits, neck and other non mail protected areas of the knights armor.

[Mark]

Leather is susceptible to mainly to blunt force blows and piercing wounds.  When the crusaders fought the Seljuks and Saracens, they were regularly confronted by archers and scimitar-wielding infantry.  The scimitars were not effective against the crusader broadswords, but the arrows were.  Even knights who had full hauberks of mail fell from arrow wounds in unprotected, or weakly protected areas.  And the scimitar-wielding muslims would simply stab into unprotected parts of a mail hauberk, like the armpit, where the scimitar could pierce the hardened leather jerkins. 

And about the experiment with the leather shoe, I would imagine the leather not giving at all, or at least making the job incredibly difficult.  But, with the full swing of an arm and the momentum of a horse's body carried with the hunk of metal, the leather wouldn't necessarily do so well.  And magitech does note this.  I don't know the numbers, but I know that if you had an enemy swordsman coming at your unit, all other things being equal, you would counter the swordsman with a piercing attack.  The multiplier handles leather well.

Actually the bows of the time were very weak and relied on the mass barrage hitting vulnerable points in the face or arms, the leather was more then enough to stop them, several accounts tell of soldiers marching unhurt with arrows sticking in the leather jerkins. Also the scimitars were more for slashing so their stabbing ability is in doubt, though I do agree that knives and spears could penetrate the armpits, neck and other non mail protected areas of the knights armor.

We all know stories are completely accurate, objective accounts, especially in the crusades, when emotions were fiery... No.  And anyways, the short bows you talk about were composite bows.  The seljuk turks made a living shooting guys up with arrows and stealing their gold.  When they consistently beat the western powers it was when they did not engage in melee, but did parthian shot techniques, and similar movements.  And I think you are talking about padded jerkins, or brigantines.  Crusaders sometimes wore them as a cheaper alternative to mail hauberks.  Brigantines especially could absorb huge damage from slashing or piercing, because they were so tough and thick.  Yes, scimitars were for slashing mostly, but the tip was always sharp.  I do not think it would take long for an arab army to put two and two together and stab the knights in vulnerable spots.

Hmm...if anyone wants to, they can get Age of Empires III: complete collection for 10 cents...
link

It ended on the 21st.  :'(  When will they do another program like this?

[Gabbe]

It ended on the 21st.  Cry  When will they do another program like this?

game is awesome, just buy it for the price it costs, good community and all

[ultifd]

Thanksgiving!!! 

[-Archmage-]

I'm thankful for Crysis, MW2, women, Zevia soda, an ATI card, Glest, GAE, MG, and you guys! 

[ultifd]

Wow, it's December already.  Time pasts by really fast...

[-Archmage-]

Wow, it's December already.  Time pasts by really fast...

  It's 07:27 here, I'm a zombie because I stayed up all night playing mw2 with a random new friend.

[Gabbe]

Wow, it's December already.  Time pasts by really fast...

  It's 07:27 here, I'm a zombie because I stayed up all night playing mw2 with a random new friend.

I see you always, you play steam version!

[-Archmage-]

Wow, it's December already.  Time pasts by really fast...

  It's 07:27 here, I'm a zombie because I stayed up all night playing mw2 with a random new friend.

I see you always, you play steam version!

I don't have AlterIW on my laptop, that's why.

[Gabbe]

You just need a file transfer device or something on the other hand, more news from AlterOps ! ye

[-Archmage-]

You just need a file transfer device or something on the other hand, more news from AlterOps ! ye

There cheap crap never works, why are they bothering... I wish they'd just release it so I can play.

[Omega]

I just discovered the most amazing site today, and thought I'd share it with everyone else. It's the first (and so far only) computational knowledge engine, and to be honest, half an hour of playing around had me truly amazed. Basically, it's a smart type of information engine.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/

For example, I started off by throwing it one of my earlier chemistry questions: "27mg of FeSO₄" and it gave me the molar amount that I was looking for, and much more. And then clicking on that molar amount (which was in millimoles) gave me another page which contained more information including the amount in the base unit moles that I was looking for. In fact, it even knew what the chemical formula was, even though I only knew it as "Iron (II) Sulfate". And trying something later, I realized simply typing "27mg of FeSO4 in moles" would have given exactly what I needed, that's how smart that engine is!

As nerdy as it sounds, it was a lot of fun to use, simply because of its amazing power.

So then I decided to test it with something not related to chemistry:
Searching "cyan" gave me Hex codes and RGB codes for the color, along with other information such as complimentary colors, etc.

Making up a random quadratic equation, "y=(x-(2/3))^2+3", it managed to convert the computer type into mathmatical form and plot it out.

Making up another random math question, "2x+23/sqrt(16)=2", it converted it to mathmatical form, removed the square root, solved for x, and graphed the formula.

Searching the my birthday, "may 30" returned notable events, the time difference, holidays (that I never knew existed), and sun rise + sunset of my location, fine tuned down to my city.

Searching "canada" gave me no shortage of information from land size to unemployment percentages, to maps, to the internet code!

A search on "omega" refered to the character, including the language and unicode number.

Making a random string of ones and zeros in hopes of being intrepid as binary, "1010111" got me the decimal number, a number line, and some very intesting facts of it (it cannot be written as the sum of 3 squares).

Searching "the sun", got me information on sunrise/set in my location, distance from the earth, temperature, estimated life expectancy, etc;

Searching "google" got me the stock value, number of employees, web site address, location, annual revenue (that's a lot!), and a dozen other stuff you have to be a stock trader to understand (it does say that it's a "strong buy" though).

Searching "michael" (my name) told me it's the 3rd most popular name but expected to rise to the number 1 spot in the USA eventually.

And of course, the crown jewel, searching for "the answer to life, the universe, and everything" got me 42.


How "smart" that engine was surprised me... Mathmatical questions I've never seen a computer done, it performed instantly...

Have fun.

[-Archmage-]

I just discovered the most amazing site today, and thought I'd share it with everyone else. It's the first (and so far only) computational knowledge engine, and to be honest, half an hour of playing around had me truly amazed. Basically, it's a smart type of information engine.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/

For example, I started off by throwing it one of my earlier chemistry questions: "27mg of FeSO₄" and it gave me the molar amount that I was looking for, and much more. And then clicking on that molar amount (which was in millimoles) gave me another page which contained more information including the amount in the base unit moles that I was looking for. In fact, it even knew what the chemical formula was, even though I only knew it as "Iron (II) Sulfate". And trying something later, I realized simply typing "27mg of FeSO4 in moles" would have given exactly what I needed, that's how smart that engine is!

As nerdy as it sounds, it was a lot of fun to use, simply because of its amazing power.

So then I decided to test it with something not related to chemistry:
Searching "cyan" gave me Hex codes and RGB codes for the color, along with other information such as complimentary colors, etc.

Making up a random quadratic equation, "y=(x-(2/3))^2+3", it managed to convert the computer type into mathmatical form and plot it out.

Making up another random math question, "2x+23/sqrt(16)=2", it converted it to mathmatical form, removed the square root, solved for x, and graphed the formula.

Searching the my birthday, "may 30" returned notable events, the time difference, holidays (that I never knew existed), and sun rise + sunset of my location, fine tuned down to my city.

Searching "canada" gave me no shortage of information from land size to unemployment percentages, to maps, to the internet code!

A search on "omega" refered to the character, including the language and unicode number.

Making a random string of ones and zeros in hopes of being intrepid as binary, "1010111" got me the decimal number, a number line, and some very intesting facts of it (it cannot be written as the sum of 3 squares).

Searching "the sun", got me information on sunrise/set in my location, distance from the earth, temperature, estimated life expectancy, etc;

Searching "google" got me the stock value, number of employees, web site address, location, annual revenue (that's a lot!), and a dozen other stuff you have to be a stock trader to understand (it does say that it's a "strong buy" though).

Searching "michael" (my name) told me it's the 3rd most popular name but expected to rise to the number 1 spot in the USA eventually.

And of course, the crown jewel, searching for "the answer to life, the universe, and everything" got me 42.


How "smart" that engine was surprised me... Mathmatical questions I've never seen a computer done, it performed instantly...

Have fun.

It's powerful, but not that powerful...