Off Topic - Main

[-Archmage-]

I have a better idea, lets debate the mathematics behind evolution.

[Omega]

God, you guys have made two pages while I was away. Now, can we please please please end this discussion? While I am a creationist myself (dunno how arch originally thought otherwise), right now, I'll let others choose as they will. Believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want.

I know that religion and the theories that acompany it are a well known topic for discussion and wars HAVE started (and are still going on) over it, but let's please push those differences aside and end this discussion, since this will not end if you keep going on. Religious discussions NEVER end!

Remember that I did make the topic and CAN lock it for a day or two if you guys can't be more civilized (though I don't intend to).

---

Concerning my game (which is burried back two pages, thanks to this):

@Arch: My game is a classical style RPG meant for fans of Final Fantasy since that was a big influence. Expect a killer storyline in the final along with much changed gameplay. Note that I probably will change the battlestyle to sideview, though it would be much later, since that's a very big change!

The next version has Battle Backgrounds, various battle transitions, a few bug fixes, and a drastically changed balance system, since the biggest problem with the demo is that it is too easy. It also has the damage for enemies pop up on top of the foe rather than a dialogue box (great!). The storyline is the same as the demo, as this is demo beta2, but the changes are very noticable and great. I'd release it now, but I'm not at home... (BTW: Old saves aren't compatible with the new version because of something that was changed when the battle transitions were done).

I will need beta testers as developement goes. Anyone want to volunteer?

[Hectate]

God, you guys have made two pages while I was away. Now, can we please please please end this discussion? While I am a creationist myself (dunno how arch originally thought otherwise), right now, I'll let others choose as they will. Believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want.

I know that religion and the theories that acompany it are a well known topic for discussion and wars HAVE started (and are still going on) over it, but let's please push those differences aside and end this discussion, since this will not end if you keep going on. Religious discussions NEVER end!

Remember that I did make the topic and CAN lock it for a day or two if you guys can't be more civilized (though I don't intend to).

---

Concerning my game (which is burried back two pages, thanks to this):

@Arch: My game is a classical style RPG meant for fans of Final Fantasy since that was a big influence. Expect a killer storyline in the final along with much changed gameplay. Note that I probably will change the battlestyle to sideview, though it would be much later, since that's a very big change!

The next version has Battle Backgrounds, various battle transitions, a few bug fixes, and a drastically changed balance system, since the biggest problem with the demo is that it is too easy. It also has the damage for enemies pop up on top of the foe rather than a dialogue box (great!). The storyline is the same as the demo, as this is demo beta2, but the changes are very noticable and great. I'd release it now, but I'm not at home... (BTW: Old saves aren't compatible with the new version because of something that was changed when the battle transitions were done).

I will need beta testers as developement goes. Anyone want to volunteer?

Thank you Omega. I won't reiterate anything from my newly created feedback post (! read it !) but I did remember that the battle backgrounds were looking odd from what I remember of my RPG Maker games. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing beta 2, and more of the story! I love RPGs because I love a good story. I hate RPGs because I love a good story (and hate having to struggle through a RPG to get to the story, lol). I'm not very good at RPGs in a general sense.

[modman]

I know that religion and the theories that acompany it are a well known topic for discussion and wars HAVE started (and are still going on) over it, but let's please push those differences aside and end this discussion, since this will not end if you keep going on. Religious discussions NEVER end!

Wars are more often encouraged by religious differences, but war is too complex to pin on religion alone.  Imagine how you simplistic you would think me if I said "The reasons for WW2 start and end at religion".  Not right, but partially; Hitler was Catholic, and the death camps were not, shall we say, "equal opportunity".  Anyways, are you interested in the discussion ending?  Generally, discussions are not given time to mature, to where false axioms are trashed and assumptions are questioned.

But religious discussions do end.  No one is disputing the mythological nature of Greek or Roman gods, for example.

Anyways, we were not having a religious discussion.  I tried to tie evolution to religion, Arch rejected that relationship, and for the sake of the debate, I allowed it.  I presented evidence, and we were going along quite nicely, although no one addressed my 2^nd Thermo Law question yet.

Hopefully you used "theories" in the lightest sense, because a scientific theory needs to make testable predictions.

Believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want.

Thanks, but people do not "choose" beliefs, at least not usually and without great effort.  It is not easy convincing yourself of something which is false based on facts you have and observations you make.  Besides, that's a pretty good argument to do just about anything, no matter how barbaric, like headhunting, for example.

Now, can we please please please end this discussion?

We can make an alternate thread instead, if you want, but since this is off topic here, I don't see a problem.  Besides, who can argue with @kukac@?

Talk is free.

The man knows what he is talking about.   I agree!

[John.d.h]

What's wrong with headhunting? >.>

[modman]

OK, I'll start a new OT topic once Arch is willing to get back into the discussion.

[-Archmage-]

For the last time were not discussing religion were discussing.......the "science" behind evolution.

[Omega]

I agree with you a bit hectate. I think that story is the MOST IMPORTANT PART of an RPG, although I generally love everything (except some odd battle systems such as FF 2 or 8 [In FF 2, you leveled up the fastest by attacking yourself, and in FF VIII your had to draw magic from foes to get stronger]. That's why FF IX is my favorite game of all time, best story, classical gameplay, but at the same time, beautiful graphics, positively amazing for the PS1.

---

Please, do not go back into that. It seems pointless arguing about religion because let's face it, we'd just be arguing until you guys get bored of arguing. Nothing will EVER be resolved.

[-Archmage-]

I don't think you even read my last post.

[Omega]

It's not of religion directly, but it's based on a religious idea (so basically, it'd be an argument between religious [creation] and non-religious [evolution]). Interestingly, the the majority of the world is religious in some way, and of that, most believe in the same god (barring in mind that christianity, islamic, and judism all believe in the same god).

[-Archmage-]

Evolution requires as much faith as any religion!

[John.d.h]

Okay, getting away from the debate(s), I have a problem that some of you experienced Linux users might be able to help me with.  On my Ubuntu system, I recently updated my headers, kernel, all that jazz, and when I went to reboot, it brought me to a GRUB prompt instead of starting up my system. After searching a bit for how to work GRUB, I managed to figure out what commands to use, but I still can't get it to boot to Linux.  Windows still works fine, though (as well as Vista usually does, anyway. ).

>ls
(loop0) (hd0) (hd0,2) (hd0,1)
>root (loop0)
(loop0): Filesystem is ext2.
>linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-15-generic root=<???>
[Linux-bzImage, setup=0x3400, size=0x3b2e00]
>initrd /boot/initrd-2.6.31-15-generic
>boot

(loop0) has all my Linux stuff on it, (hd0) is of an unknown type, (hd0,2) is my Windows partition, and (hd0,1) appears to be a Windows boot partition, so (loop0) is the only one that I'm getting anywhere with.

When I try any other version of vmlinuz, it says "invalid magic number", so the 15 is the only one that has gotten me anywhere at all so far.

The <???> is the variable that I have isolated as probably being the problem. I've tried /dev/sda, /dev/sda1, /dev/sda2, /dev/loop0, /dev/loop1, root, /, and all possible permutations thereof.

All of them take me to another screen with something like the following:
Begin: Waiting for root file system... ...
Done.
Gave up waiting for root device.
Alert! <???> does not exist. Dropping to a shell!
(initramfs) _

So basically, I need to know one of the following

1.) How to get my system back to where it was before I updated it so I can boot normally
2.) What do put for the "root=" to get it to work
3.) What to do when I get to the "(initramfs)" prompt to boot my system, if that's even possible.

Edit: Okay, so it seems my hard-drive is in "pre-fail" condition and has 14 bad sectors, so maybe that's the problem.  Also, it only seems to recognize my Windows partitions as existing, possibly as a result of the aforementioned.  Sounds like I need to back up some files before the whole thing goes critical mass.

[ElimiNator]

I don't know what your prob is sory, but if any one has a link or two that show some sientific proof of Evolution i would like to see it.
And yes Evolution has a lot of holes in it so pepple just can ges. If you belive Evolution then again show me why you do.

[Gabbe]

back again, I WANT RELEGIOUS DISCUSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

i hate christianity, what does anybody say to me about that!?!?!!?!?


(also, there should be atleast 3 "off topic" post

[-Archmage-]

i hate christianity, what does anybody say to me about that!?!?!!?!?

That's why you believe Evolution!!!

Like Elim I would like to see some nice proof.

[Gabbe]

actually that thread, was, and still is, a joke

It`s very funny see how this goes along, and when i think it through, i have not really made my descission for that i don`t belive in creation, but i have seen more evidence of evolution, and please, dont use such strange words, cause my english is well, but my scientific english, no

I can disproove creation, but prooving evolution will proove to be a little harder, however, i will make an effort (for once) in this post!!

i hate christianity, what does anybody say to me about that!?!?!!?!?

That's why you believe Evolution!!!

Like Elim I would like to see some nice proof.

Proof is here now! yey, hurray!

When a little cell reproduces, it will change a little tiny bit. when these cells reproduce, they will perhaps, and now im very theoretically, evolve so that there will be four cells, and two of these cells have similarities, making them a specie! Then the other two, will perhaps have similarities! Then you have 2 species. Considering this have ben going on for a lot of time, there may have occured changes, making all the species we have now!

I will now TRY proove creation, wich i don`t think will be succesfull in.

(this does actually have something to do with evolution, but it will be minor changes)

Think if the earth were hit by a asteroid. And then another one would. Consider both of them carrying tiny organisms. Minor changes could have happened. I think this is "Modern" creation science.

Also, anyone wanna disguiss whether aliens exist nor?
If not, then plz we need a disguiss about creation ASWELL!!

would be unfair only discus evo

[modman]

Omega, so you think that truth is found by what the majority thinks?  Think again!  Even though most people thought the world was flat at one point in history, that is now (hopefully) known to be false.  If you're still not convinced, check the Steve-o-Meter for a list of scientists who support evolution.

If you were truely looking for proof, Arch, you would have read my post above, the one with the skulls, and "debunked" it.  Why is that not enough proof for you?  You have to have a reason, because the burden of proof is on you; you are making the assumption that there is no evidence for evolution.

Let me tell you the truth.  Evolution is no longer debated in scientific circles anymore.  It hasn't been for 100 years.  Evolution is a couple steps short from being a law, IMO.  But for now, it is classified as a theory.  The theories being tested right now are the proposed processes for evolution, for example genetic drift or mutation.

So I tend to get a little unhappy when I present evidence, which is, for the most part ignored.  Then, the topic changes and several posts later, the same claim is made that there "is no evidence" basically (it's the same as saying it takes faith, whatever.  However you want to word it...).  You have simply sidestepped hard evidence, not dealt with it.  This suggests ulterior motives, not genuine innocent interest in the truth.

//Edit: I will create another topic for this now.

[Gabbe]

"Creationism" refers to the religious belief in a supernatural deity or force that intervenes, or has intervened, directly in the physical world. Within that broad scope, there are many varieties of creationist belief. Some forms of creationism hold that natural biological processes cannot account for the history, diversity, and complexity of life on earth. Such "anti-evolution" creationists have been leading opposition to the teaching of evolution since the 1920s.

For more than two decades, the National Center for Science Education has been opposing efforts by creationists to weaken or block the teaching of evolution. This section of our website offers articles about anti-evolution creationist movements, critiques of creationist writings, and collections of materials on the leading lawsuits over efforts to teach creationism or to undermine the teaching of evolution in public schools.

Please note: the term creationism as used in this section refers to anti-evolution creationism. For perspectives on meanings of creationism in theological contexts, please see the Science and Religion section.

Is this Creationism?

[Gabbe]

In the biological sciences, evolution is a scientific theory that explains the emergence of new varieties of living things in the past and in the present; it is not a "theory of origins" about how life began. Evolution accounts for the striking patterns of similarities and differences among living things over time and across habitats through the action of biological processes such as natural selection, mutation, symbiosis, gene transfer, and genetic drift. Evolution has been subjected to scientific testing for over a century and has been (and continues to be) consistently confirmed by evidence from a wide range of fields.

The National Center for Science Education is the only national organization devoted to defending the teaching of evolution in public schools. This mission is vital because of evolution's central importance to the conceptual foundations of the modern biomedical, life, and earth sciences.

And this Evolution?

Soz doubled

[John.d.h]

That's the general idea of each, Gabbe.  Basically, creationism is the belief that life exists because it was created by God or some god-like force.  Evolution is the idea that life exists because of natural processes that are NOT caused by God or a god-like force.  The third approach is called intelligent design, which is in the middle.  It basically says that life exists and develops by evolution, but also the process is guided by God or some god-like force.

[modman]

I have to disagree.  Intelligent design is a trojan horse for creationism, and a poor one at that.  A closer look at the creationism/evolution debate history, especially the court ruling that creationism was not science.  Surprise!  A whole new science, now!  Empirically, this doesn't look good for ID, because if it were true science, without even looking at its specifics, its birth would have been independent of Judge Jones' ruling.

Omega and I would both appreciate that this discussion be transported to another topic.

[Omega]

I'd thank you modman, but the link seems to be broken.

[John.d.h]

Nah, somebody just nuked the topic.

[-Archmage-]

Yah, I wish people would let us get going, somebody "nuked it" as John said.

[Omega]

Interesting word choice. Also interesting, I can only think of two active people with that kind of power: Kukac and titi...

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Moving on in this topic, I have a serious question: Why is it that terrorists seem to dislike the US so much? I am not well versed in american history, and of that, I know primarily civil war and earlier history, nothing more recent. I know that the wars in Iraq and afganistan happened AFTER 9/11, so what is it that made terrorists want to target the US so much (other than the fact they had Bush as a president and the stupidest supreme court in the world)?