Author Topic: Off Topic - Main  (Read 467806 times)

ElimiNator

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #875 on: 3 February 2010, 02:25:40 »
Yes I defend him but I dont want to get into an argument.

@ Arch, How often are you on line?, evry time I post you Imeditly reply.
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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #876 on: 3 February 2010, 02:26:14 »
I really cannot understand why people voted to put this dufas in office, he's not even eligible for presidency.
I must agree with you there. I'm not american, but he certainly is a terrible economist. And with the world's markets so closely webbed...

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ElimiNator

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #877 on: 3 February 2010, 02:39:49 »
see ya, make shure military works on linux this time because last time it took me over an hour to fix it.
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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #878 on: 3 February 2010, 05:07:16 »
Well, I'm home all the time so I check this all the time. :)
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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #879 on: 3 February 2010, 22:20:03 »
I consider myself a bit of a strategist, which means I don't want to dilly-dally, I want to plan and strike, 'sorta-speak'.
You can debate this guys arguments, I will probably take a look at his arguments sometime soon, but yah, I'd like to debate the core, not what another guy thinks.

Which means avoiding the question to me.

Assume there is species A which has environmental difficultly x.  Given the appropriate amount of time and assuming that the species does not die out first, there will be an individual (k) with a dominant trait which gives k an advantage over the others of k's species.  Because the trait is dominant, it is passed to all of its offspring (I think, if not most).  Within A, there will be a pocket K which can survive x more effectively than the rest of A.  This allows them to reproduce more, because more of K survives to adulthood.  This passes the K trait to more of A.  Simple.

You wanted to debate evolution, fine.  We won't touch Abiogenesis, then.

//EDIT: Some videos creationists should view.

What All Creationists Must Deny
Evolution IS a Blind Watchmaker!
Top 10 List Why Anti-Evolutionists are WRONG
« Last Edit: 3 February 2010, 22:56:56 by Sir modman »

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #880 on: 3 February 2010, 23:48:34 »
Ok, for the first video, all I can say is that that guys has quite a lot of things wrong.
Being a bit of a creationist myself, I know that that guys says we must deny a lot of things, but a lot of them are things we don't at all have to deny, in fact a lot of the stuff he says we deny, actually would deny evolution, and is heavily supported by me and many other creationists.

For the second and third videos, the guys seems to not understand much about anything except evolution, and even then he's got a lot wrong.

You do know that the theory of Evolution is extremely flawed, and a lot of the evidence you use to support it makes little to no sense, or can be used to support creationism/ID.

Evolution as I understand it:

A solar ray(or whatever) hits one of the sperm in some male life-form, and scrambles some or all of the genetic code......ok.
Then the life-form goes and reproduces, and somehow that partially or totally scrambled sperm makes it to the egg first.

Now I'm probably jumping over tons and tons of little details, but seriously, what's the probability of that all happening, and then what is the probability of it helping the life-form?

All considered Evolution pretty much says: "life is just a random occurrence", but if Evolution is random....then it can't be logical.
THE UNIVERSE IS LOGICAL. ::) Although in favor of both sides, Evolution has a 'nanoscopic' chance of occurring, which tells us that Evolution isn't random.
ALTHOUGH........Evolution has an enormously large chance of screwing up the life-form rather than helping it in any way.

BTW, how does this natural selection thing work, it sounds like a bunch of crap, but I'd like to see what you have to say for it...

Happy now?
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John.d.h

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #881 on: 3 February 2010, 23:52:28 »
Evolution as I understand it:

A solar ray(or whatever) hits one of the sperm in some male life-form, and scrambles some or all of the genetic code......ok.
Then the life-form goes and reproduces, and somehow that partially or totally scrambled sperm makes it to the egg first.
Maybe that should read "Evolution as I don't understand it", because that's really not it at all.

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #882 on: 3 February 2010, 23:54:23 »
Ok, John I asked you for an explanation of Evolution and you clearly explained 'micro-evolution'.
So don't go telling me I've got it wrong. ::)
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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #883 on: 4 February 2010, 01:09:12 »
Sperm cells are gametes!  You should really take a Biology I course before you blatantly claim:

You do know that the theory of Evolution is extremely flawed, and a lot of the evidence you use to support it makes little to no sense, or can be used to support creationism/ID.
Nothing in the universe is random! (excluding quantum mechanical processes)  And again, we're not talking about abiogenesis (maybe you've confused abiogenesis with evolution?), so why talk about whether life is a random occurrence?

It would be really easy to disprove evolution, just find a Precambrian chicken!

Add to the list that you didn't address specific problems, you just wrote off the whole of the three videos as:

Ok, for the first video, all I can say is that that guys has quite a lot of things wrong.
Being a bit of a creationist myself, I know that that guys says we must deny a lot of things, but a lot of them are things we don't at all have to deny, in fact a lot of the stuff he says we deny, actually would deny evolution, and is heavily supported by me and many other creationists.
Ignore the first factors, like the scientific method, that the man talks about.  They have a more complex relationship with evolution denial than some of the things later in the video.  What I was hoping you would get out of it is the evidence presented later in the video.  I don't think you watched the whole thing, personally, for two reasons:
1) You dismissed the videos with vague comments.
2) Evidence for evolution was presented.  If you are really so eager to find evidence so you can refute it, why didn't you comment about it, let alone counter it?

For the second and third videos, the guys seems to not understand much about anything except evolution...
Doesn't sound like a problem to me, because that's what the videos are about, proving evolution!

...and even then he's got a lot wrong.
Like what?  I expect that you would cite specifics, because you can throw this on the impalpable pile (score one for my crappy alliteration)!

what's the probability of that all happening, and then what is the probability of it helping the life-form?
Quote
Evolution has an enormously large chance of screwing up the life-form rather than helping it in any way
These go together.  Arch, you should read up on mutation, especially since it isn't in the "evil zone" for you.  The percent who survive after a mutation depends on the species, but for sea turtles it is about 0.3%, and for lobsters about 0.1%.  BTW, I found those facts in the videos I linked to, so you either didn't understand what he was talking about, or didn't watch that part.

All considered Evolution pretty much says: "life is just a random occurrence", but if Evolution is random....then it can't be logical.
THE UNIVERSE IS LOGICAL. Roll Eyes Although in favor of both sides, Evolution has a 'nanoscopic' chance of occurring, which tells us that Evolution isn't random.
You solved your own problem!  I don't know why you keep repeating it (maybe he's playing a war of attrition), but it is getting exceedingly annoying.  Evolution is not random.  Evolution is not random.  Oh, and BTW, evolution is not random.  Genetic variation is the "random-ist" process in it, but the natural selection process is not random at all, and is based upon the traits acquired through mutation and their effect, if any, upon the survival rate of the individuals who possess it.  If you think evolution is a random process, read this paragraph again, because I'm tired of answering that!

BTW, how does this natural selection thing work, it sounds like a bunch of crap, but I'd like to see what you have to say for it...
There are a couple of things fundamentally wrong about this:
1) Natural selection is the engine of evolution!  Trying to understand evolution without understanding natural selection without it is like trying to contemplate the solar system without Newton's universal law of gravitation.
2) The second phrase, combined with the first, by definition shows that you are dogmatic.  You admittedly have no knowledge of it whatsoever, yet have concluded it a "bunch of crap" (well, we atheists have names for your Biblical fairy tales, too!).

Because I already covered it in my last post, I won't say any more, besides one thing:  "Survival of the Fittest".  Think about it.

Happy now?
No, I'm a bit hungry.  Thank you very much for your concern of my well being, though. :P

I'm a bit relieved, because with your understanding of evolution, I'm not surprised you didn't "believe in it".  Whoever told you what you know, though, should be fired/removed from their position/chastised. :D

So don't go telling me I've got it wrong. ::)
Don't be blaming others when you got things wrong.  What John posted was true, and he is not responsible for how you interpreted it.  Also, whether or not he described micro-evolution or not, your own description of your knowledge of evolution is more of an extreme corruption than a manifestation of (but more likely not even derived from) his description.

Even if he was wrong, and his description was as corrupted as yours was today, he still cannot be held 100% responsible, because you have more than enough time to do your own research.  Seriously, if the extent of your research is two paragraphs on a gaming forum, you shouldn't expect to in any way disprove evolution.

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #884 on: 4 February 2010, 01:26:54 »
You do all this and make it all so complicated!
I'm thinking with logic here, and one of Wciow's posts, convinced me that my understanding was correct, instead of telling me I'm wrong everywhere, why won't you tell me what the right thing is, but oh no, you have to attack and be aggressive.

Using pure logic, you can conclude that there must be a creator.
Let's kinda combine evolution and abiogenesis for a second, you claim all this stuff came about from some "scientific" processes, but there's no creator, and you can't have something out of nothing!
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modman

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #885 on: 4 February 2010, 01:30:38 »
and you can't have something out of nothing!
Ah, taking the atheist side, eh?  Finally realizing what atheists realized a long time ago?

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #886 on: 4 February 2010, 02:04:51 »
Did all you guys know that no one crated coke-a-cola?, some guy steped on the side walk the wrong way and poof a coke was there, HA ha.  ;D

« Last Edit: 4 February 2010, 02:09:26 by ElimiNator »
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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #887 on: 4 February 2010, 02:28:38 »
Why is it that, at one point, we were not talking about creationism, but now, once it is shown that the anti-evolution side is ill-informed in basic evolutionary theory, they start taking pot shots at atheism?  I'll be glad to talk atheism, but I am wary of others who would rather keep the discussion scientific.

For me, theism is superflous, because early man simply creates gods at his will to explain the world around him.

Did all you guys know that no one crated coke-a-cola?, some guy steped on the side walk the wrong way and poof a coke was there, HA ha.  ;D

Ha ha.  Here's another one: Once upon a time, there was a man, and then a sky-fairy created a woman out of that man's rib.  Ha ha.  But I'm not finished!  A talking snake convinced the woman to eat a magical fruit, which gave her power to see good from evil!  But alas, the scrumper bit the fruit, shared it with her partner.  The sky fairy kicked them out of paradise for this heinous crime, and damned all women to suffer childbirth.  Then he ensured no one else could get in by sending down an angel with a flaming sword to guard paradise.  Then end.

Great story, huh?  Wait till I tell y'all about the time God...er...sky fairy got so mad that he killed off all of man!  Don't worry, though, a man called Noah collected the millions of species of animals (and bacteria, and viruses, and the 28 000 species of butterfly) into a relatively small ship to protect all of animals from the 40 days of rain.

By the way, guys, the math breaks down to a six inches of rain per minute!  This, if you take the Bible literally that Mt. Everest was covered in the flood.

Can we explain the diversity of language through invoking God too?

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #888 on: 4 February 2010, 07:25:44 »
It seems somebody must have bumped the maturity dial while I wasn't looking. >.>

I'm done playing devil's advocate for a while.  Y'all can sort it out on your own.

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #889 on: 4 February 2010, 12:19:29 »
Oh come on John! :P

The dial....huh ok, wait..........up or down? :P

BTW guys I was posting when my Mom made me go to bed.
Sorry for any confusion you may receive from this, but I started it last night, so I may have been redundant, or forgot something, you know, so just don't nit-pick. :P
I saved it though:

Quote
Ah, taking the atheist side, eh?  Finally realizing what atheists realized a long time ago?

You are completely hilarious!!! :D :D :D
That was a completely hypocritical!
NEWSFLASH: The Atheists are the ones who believe something came out of nothing! ::) ::) ::)

Also, have you heard of Medium-ship, and some other person that I forgot.....(hold on).....Bridey Murphy?(I'd recommend on top of these links, a google search.

There is so much undoubtable(I know it's not a word, but you get what it means right?) proof that the physical plane is not all that's here, there are souls(maybe not exactly as we imagine, but they obviously exist.

I've also heard(and seen tons of books about) how quantum science relates to spirituality and other things that you athiests don't believe.

I'm just about ready to give up arguing with you, you simply aren't aware of what's around you, you try to complicate things which makes me feel like "Oh great, here we go again, how can he defy logic, and try to justify his beliefs".

I'm kind of curious, do you wish you were created by Evolution?
I think Evolution happens in a way, but I also believe that you have the outcome/results all wrong, and that it can't work all by itself.

You see......Evolution doesn't create diversity of life, AT ALL, it actually 'de-complicates' genetic codes, maybe that's the explanation for why the Human Genome is 'growing'(:P) less complex. I also don't know all that much about Evolution(yet!!!), because:

1- It's very obviously not true.
2- In a few months give or take a few months, I will be starting to get into the atheists point of view, through The Great Courses, the top professors in the world give sets of lecture all about certain things, and I decided I wanted one about Romans, and a few other things, including a large set about the Big Bang, Evolution, just about everything from your point of view, so after that I will be able to de-compile you and re-compile you into a true Human being! :D How does that sound?
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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #890 on: 4 February 2010, 23:40:44 »
There is so much undoubtable(I know it's not a word, but you get what it means right?) proof that the physical plane is not all that's here, there are souls(maybe not exactly as we imagine, but they obviously exist.

Why do you make assertions like this in a debate atmosphere?  Where is your undeniable, irrefutable proof?  There is none.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
— Christopher Hitchens

Owned. :P

Oh, and I apologize for the low blows John.  I just think the balance is out of whack here, and that some are permitted what others are denied in this discussion.  Furthermore:


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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #891 on: 5 February 2010, 03:58:56 »
I want to make this clear.  From now on, I will not partake in any debate which connects theism to evolution.  I will not talk about theism at all.

I understand that it is pointless, so I want to stop it NOW.

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #892 on: 5 February 2010, 05:12:07 »
Ergo; ...
 :)

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #893 on: 5 February 2010, 05:41:03 »
I want to make this clear.
Then add an alpha channel to it! ;D

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #894 on: 5 February 2010, 13:00:37 »
Quote
Why do you make assertions like this in a debate atmosphere?  Where is your undeniable, irrefutable proof?  There is none.

Oh there is you just ignored it!

Mediumship and Bridey Murphy.
There's a lot more but I'm no expert on this stuff, all I can say to you is stop staring at the wall, get up and take a good look around, you assume the all this complex stuff came out of a random scientific theory!
And it is in fact random because no one started it, and nothing couldn't have started it, therefore it's random.

Therefore I am un-owned. :P
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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #895 on: 7 February 2010, 11:27:19 »
Hey? This is my 1st post here
About evolution...
http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/top.htm
http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/arguments.shtml
logically, if something came into existence following another, does it necessarily mean that the latter came from the former?
eg: Suppose a train is invented after a car, (or vice-versa) it doesnt mean that trains were invented from cars does it?
Charles Darwin himself , in a letter to his friend said that he did not believe that the theory was entirely practical and that it was just an idea that sparked in his mind when he saw 2 birds of same species with different beaks in different places.
We know about so many animals that existed in the past from their fossils... do we have at least ONE real fossil of a 'bird-fish', or an 'ape-man'? Believe me they said they found fossils of ape-men but it's all false.
a very simple argument: If humans came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?
Now the scientists go to radiation - they say that radiation of some sort affected animals and they started mutating... they tried experiments on fruit-flies with all types of radiations and all they got was flies which died within a few minutes though some had a missing limb, some had an extra one, some with 2 heads, and so on but NOT ONE was a new species of fly.

Oh and play 'Medal of Honor: Pacific assault' - simply awesome game ;D
« Last Edit: 7 February 2010, 11:29:32 by newb »

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #896 on: 7 February 2010, 14:46:22 »
Well, the Evolutionists claim to have all this proof, but they're missing a huge section of proof that they really need!
If we evolved, where are all the interspecies?!?!
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newb

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #897 on: 7 February 2010, 18:11:21 »
exactly. evolution is believed to be a gradual process and so where are the missing blocks of the jigsaw?
Plus, even if the author isn't so confident in his theory, how can we be?


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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #898 on: 7 February 2010, 19:03:34 »
Modman, seriously, your 'Levers of Logic' graph is childish, it's the Evolutionist view of logic, what you can't understand isn't logical!!! :D

Stop hitting yourself.

Oh yes, me the Newb are waiting for some good clear proof! 8)
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ElimiNator

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Re: Off Topic - Main
« Reply #899 on: 8 February 2010, 01:33:36 »
ME TOO!
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