Poll

If you have played v 10.07.27, please rate your playing experience(s)

Five stars - Magitech quality
4 (15.4%)
Four stars - above average
14 (53.8%)
Three stars - average
7 (26.9%)
Two stars - below average
0 (0%)
One star - painful
1 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: 15 July 2016, 11:49:45

Author Topic: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic  (Read 280340 times)

titi

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #550 on: 10 October 2009, 15:20:57 »
But now you have it! Why not this way?
I didn't start from scratch to create animated models. This takes too long, and if its possible to reuse an existing blend file its much easier.
This model was already textured and rigged with bones when I started. Its a heavily modified "worker" :) .

About the imp:
I start to love those biting guys and I hope we make them a cheap/weak/unexpensive starting unit. A horde of them really looks freaky. What do you think?
« Last Edit: 10 October 2009, 15:27:01 by titi »
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jda

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #551 on: 10 October 2009, 18:30:06 »
Your imp looks good but I think the animations could improve.

Particularly the attack animation - it doesn't really seem very... efective or real or ... to make any sense...? The Imp puts his hands forward with its claws pointing down and forward, then he pulls them back a little and then puts them in a straight-forward position while pulling completely back... Erm... when do exactly do the claws like... strike?...
I think it would make more sense to first point the claws forward and then trust forward in a stabbing/piercing manner OR ELSE trust forward (up-forward would be best) with the claws pointing slightly down or just straight-forward and then bring them way down in a scratching/slashing kind of attack.

Just my 2 cents... ;)

And yes, the charge motion is original and cool. ;)

titi

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #552 on: 10 October 2009, 19:25:45 »
Well the claws are not really used in the attack. What I had in mind was a biting imp. Did you look at the blend file or did you checked it in the game with my setup? I think in the game its looking good ( for me ) .
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modman

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #553 on: 10 October 2009, 19:43:05 »
Personally, I would like the Imp better, titi, if it were a little more lanky.  Right now, it looks kind of stubby.  Think, "muscular, but thin", like in the concept art.

The feet should look like paws, but have sharp claws.  Overall, the idea of the unit is lanky and long, because spines, limbs, claws, and body should be long.  In the picture, it might be a little harder to see, because it is crouched.  Also, if you neglect the wings attached to the arms, it can look a bit awkward, so please add them.

Titi, I really appreciate you testing the faction.  I'll fix those problems you showed, and probably re-upload later, as v 6.4.

@ John.d.h. : The textures I use are compatible because I use Glest ones and then modify them, possibly to beyond recognition.  Otherwise, I use CGtextures.com, which I checked the license of the textures beforehand, and it seems to be fine:

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LICENSE

CGTextures offers photographs of materials ("Textures") on its website (www.cgtextures.com) for game developers, special effects artists, graphic designers and other professions. No payment or royalties are required to use these Textures. The use of Textures is non-exclusive, royalty free, and you have the right to modify them for the uses permitted under the clause Conditions of Use.
Most Textures on the CGTextures website are photographed by CGTextures. A small part is photographed by third party contributors ("Contributors"). CGTextures has separate agreements with these Contributors in which they grant CGTextures permission to add their Textures to the website. All terms and conditions in this License apply to both groups of Textures.
All Textures and materials remain in ownership of CGTextures or the Contributor and the Textures and materials are licensed to you, not sold.

INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY

All materials including the organization and presentation of these materials on the CGTextures website are the property of CGTextures or its Contributors and are protected by intellectual property laws. Some images contain graphic materials like wallpaper patterns, logos, names or signs. The use of these kind of images is at your own discretion. The rights for the photo lie with CGTextures and the photo has been taken in a public space, but using the patterns, logos or name in your work might not be allowed.

CONDITIONS OF USE

Use of the Textures is only allowed under one or more of the following conditions:
- Private or commercial use
- Use in 2D or 3D computer graphics, movies and printed media
- Incorporation in computer games, 3D models
- Selling 3D models bundled with modified versions of the textures, when the texture is customized for the 3D model

It is NOT permitted to:
- Sell or distribute any of these textures in an unmodified form, or where the derived product you are selling or distributing is a Texture or a collection of Textures. IN OTHER WORDS: Do not sell or distribute any of these textures (modified or not) by itself or in a texture or scrapbooking pack!
- Interfere with the security or otherwise abuse, disrupt, place excessive loads on, or attempt to gain unauthorized access to the CGTextures website or any system resources or networks connected to this website.
- Stockpile images with the goal of making a local copy of all textures on the site.
- Using a special program (spider, leecher) or script to automatically download all Textures on the CGTextures website. Users who try to mass download will be banned from the website automatically.
- bundle the images with software such as paint programs, 3D programs, photo-kiosk software.

We're doing one of the options we're allowed to do, and not doing anything not permitted, so it's fine.  Titi may hove other thoughts, but still, they just don't want us selling them unmodified.  And so

a) We're modifying them.
b) We are of course not selling them.

@ Titi: Sorry, but I haven't downloaded the actual models yet, I just judged from the screenshot.
« Last Edit: 10 October 2009, 19:46:27 by modman »

titi

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #554 on: 10 October 2009, 23:46:02 »
Please, no CG-Textures! I got in trouble with them! Ok, in the end they gave me permission to use what i did, but its really not a good idea!
You are not allowed to  
Quote
... IN OTHER WORDS: Do not sell or distribute any of these textures (modified or not) by itself or in a texture or scrapbooking pack!...

Thats the reason why its not possible to release things made with these textures as GPL or CC-BY-SA, which would allow exactly this to others.
So, I would suggest to simply stay away from them, i'm not the only one getting problems with this, there are several other modders and free game makers which had exactly this trouble.

For the wings:
I'm currently working on the egypt mod, so I have no time to add them at this point. I will try something like this later.
Maybe someone else want to test it with wings?
« Last Edit: 10 October 2009, 23:48:18 by titi »
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modman

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #555 on: 11 October 2009, 01:55:51 »
OK, I won't use that anymore; thanks Titi.

jda

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #556 on: 11 October 2009, 12:44:46 »
Well the claws are not really used in the attack. What I had in mind was a biting imp. Did you look at the blend file or did you checked it in the game with my setup? I think in the game its looking good ( for me ) .
When I posted the above I'd checked in g3d_viewer only. And the head thing I then tought was a very nice thing (including that it slightly turns on one side), but I saw that turning rather like a cool quirk than anything else!  ;D The going forward movement of the head I thought was just the upper-body leaning forward to atack with the claws and consequently also the head...
I did play a game with Dark Magic 6.3 yesterday (with your imp added in) - more on that below. I didn't actually catch that much of the imp's action to actually make a statement.

So I went on after I read your post and started a game with 12 imps right from the start... I hand't even seen the imp charge animation in-game before! And if it looked cool on g3d_viewer, it was just awesome in-game!! Congrats!  ;)
As for the attack animation, it looked to me even more like a claw-attack than a head one/bite (in either normal view or zoomed in). In-game, the "claw-attack" actually looks pretty good as a claw attack! :)
If you want to make it a bite-attack, you definitely cannot have the hands/claws moving in beyond the head! I very much doubt it is possible to make an animation of a bite-attack look as such if you have claws "charging" in front of the head...
You could however possibly make the Imp look like it's grabbing its "prey" just before biting it (which I assume, by your post and animation, is what you wanted). Just make the claws move forward a tad less than the head - ideally I guess you could make the palms of the hands face forward and the claws slightly bent forward as well, the head going a bit further beyond the line of the clawtips, i.e. twist the hands up at the rist and throw the head forward for the bite. I think this might work. ;)

Also, I completely agree with modman regarding:
Quote
Personally, I would like the Imp better, titi, if it were a little more lanky.  Right now, it looks kind of stubby.  Think, "muscular, but thin", like in the concept art.
I think it would look much better this way. i just didn't say anything before because I'd thought that, in spite of the picture you presented earlier on this page, the original concept differed from that... That not being the case... ;)

I'll make a different post for the game I played with Dark Magic, just to keep it more tidy ok? I do tend to write a lot...  ;D
« Last Edit: 11 October 2009, 12:47:22 by jda »

jda

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #557 on: 11 October 2009, 14:00:25 »
So I played Dark Magic against Magic against Tech and against Dwarvesbeta-gimli on the Four Rivers map (like the Anarchy scenario but with four factions instead of two), on GAE 0.2.12a.

Dark Magic is fully playable now and, AFAICT, the whole diagram is implemented. Sure, some models and animations still need a lot of rework (some are actually just same models from Magitech with different names and sometimes stats) and so do the .xml's.

Overall, it was easier to win the game than it ever was before but to be honest, I think that was because I had never mixed in the Dwarves before - the dwarves being clearly overpowered (even if, apparently, the AI did not make a single FlameTeam or Bombard). Fact is, I easily got aways with doing two and a half 16-units platoons (about 40 units in total) withtout ever getting bodered with either the Magic or the Tech players (those who were closer to my base, the dwarves were on the diagonally oposite base from me); ok, there was an initiate strolling around but it did no kill whatsoever, even if it faced mainly morlocks. When I got to those almost 40 units, I sent one 16u platoon to attack the Tech base and shortly after the other one full platoon atacked the Magic one.
By the time both main buildings (castle and the Magic equivalent, I forgot the name) were down, the dwarves had basically killed all of my (by then) 16 units of my third platoon but one air-unit (the dwarves, after leaving the Tech and Magic basically defenseless, that's how my first and second platoons found them) had attacked my base... Spliting the dwarves army by attacking their base with the remains of one platoon and attacking the dwarves who were attacking my base with the remains of the other worked alright (while continuing to do more units at my base, of course).
So... in brief, I can't actually compare Dark Magic's balance against Magitech because the Dwarves (who I'd never put in that situation) did most of the work for me... But in the final confrontation, I guess Dark Magic balances out better with the overpowered Dwarves than with Magitech.

A few comments on units:

Morlock: Incredibly weak HP (the lowest I've ever seen) makes them little more than a defensive diversion... Their attack is pretty decent however and they do, unlike the Magic Daemons and for what it's worth, have HP regen. I'm unsure about their stats, but I guess they can be a relevant unit to produce (they also come cheap as hell! lol). Of course, there is absolutely NO model of its own, so no comments on that...  ;D

Sorceress: A very good model IMO and nice animations too. :) It is for me one of the most finished units in the faction.

Dark Mage: Funny, very funny... Almost exactly the model I'd envisioned for the Shadow Walker! lol Other than, for a Shadow Walker it had to be more misterious, its forms more hidden (namely the front torso, arms and legs) and overall darker in colors. But the (kind of) helmet for the head and the cape (including the very nice tearings in the end, which I'd envisioned some time afterwards we discussed the Shadow Walker, as well as its up and down movement, which I would myself had done less prominent, fit the Shadow Walker very well; I would not have done the SW's cape that wide unless it actually curved sideways to the front of the body). This to say that in my opinion the Dark Mage looks more like a dark warrior/swordsman than a mage... Maybe it's a cliché but I envision any magicien-like unit as wearing some kind of long cloth, covering him to below his knees at least - if not so, at least, not have profuse colors on its cloathing (one general color + team color and that's it!).
Also, the attack animation is quite wrong! The Dark Mage moves one hand forward but its FlameThrow (or whatevet its attack is named) comes from behind the arm, actually from the center of the body.; matter of fact, if you're viewing him from the back, you can see a glow of blue flame coming from behind his back! But I guess that's just NOT the DM's attack yet, just something taken from another unit til its own animation is done...?
For the stats, it's in its present form, the best value unit in Dark Magic so far! It's utterly cheap (85 gold from a building you build quite at the begining of the game) and has (if I'm not mistaken) a damage-power of about somewhere in-between the Magic's Battlemages and Archmages...? Maybe too strong an unit to be available so cheap and soon?

Imp: Besides the model and animations I covered in my earlier post, very good HP, incredible speed but a rather weak attack... Seems maybe too expensive and late in the game to be worth it? Which is a shame, given as it's turning to be such a great and different model...

Shadow walker: well, see pages 19-20 (I think) for the discussion on its modeling and animations (and maybe also what I said in this post for the Dark Mage), none of it done yet - though it looks kind of nice already (in the Magic Ghost Armor kind of way...  ;D ). Also a bit too expensive to be worth it if you can make Dark Mages... Though it is a good smooth next-unit after the morlock for the Sorceress to conjure. ;) But I would make its damage-points considerably higher (relative to the in-faction balance, overall well balanced out with Magitech, of course).

The flying thing... NOT the wyvern, the other one, the one the Sorceress conjures, I forgot the name. I think it's a well balanced aerial unit, appropriate stats, appropriate pricing, appropriate timing to start producing. Modeling, of course, to be done.

Acolyte: OMG, how did I forget to mention this one before! Amazing job on a worker-unit, the most original worker-model I've seen. Just superb! Very much like the awesome animations too! Though I think the mining-energy-pan (or whatever that is) should be displayed more forward than it currently is (maybe the havest wood too but not so much, I think). Not sure about the building animation... I guess it's still not done, but could still work, in a strange way, as it is... lol
Very nice!  ;)

Dark Elder: Haven't seen much of it (late in the game in a 64x64 map) but looks just perfect: model, stats (as I remember), skills! Very good. :)

The later two units:
The gargoyle: Is that an original? I thought they'd be more like stone-statues brought to life? Or am I just messing up my concepts?...
The wyvern: I'm pretty sure I saw a completely diferent model around this topic... That was just a dragon-model I saw in-game... don't remember the stats...

The buildings: looking quite good, in general.
Though I think the crystal in the Devination Crystal has a too long up-and-down movement. I think it should hover more gently, but that's just my thinking. On some views it looks just perfect! lol
There is something about placing the buildings in the map (choosing their position) that sometimes makes them not appear complete...? Could rather be a GAE issue instead...?

And I guess that's pretty much it.

Overall, I'm liking where this is going. Congrats to all of you! :)
I

modman

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #558 on: 11 October 2009, 22:51:38 »
Thanks a lot for the comments :).  I would like to address a couple of things.

1) Dark Magic is meant to be balanced with Magitech.  Right now, it might not be, but I'm working on it.
2) The Imp is meant to be somewhat parallel to the Horseman in Tech and the Drake Rider in Magic.  Maybe it is a little far into the game for it; I'll change a few things maybe.  But the stats are meant to be about equal.
3) The Gargoyle is an original unit, which is supposed to be very powerful; the kind of thing you hope never gets to your base.  The reason I like it is that I will be able to produce a bunch of them and overwhelm my enemy.  But of course by that time, a lot of units could be made by the enemy, and it's also a melee unit, so it's vulnerable to ranged units.
4) I don't like the standing animation for the Dark Mage.  It's rather distracting.  The cape should be more fluid-like and stay lower.
5) The Shadow Walker is meant to be a powerful mid-game unit which is a bit more powerful than the Guard but is slower.  This goes along with Dark Magic in general, which is slow but very powerful.  So kind of like lava that just creeps towards the base.

What did you think of the Gods Bane?

John.d.h

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #559 on: 12 October 2009, 02:25:20 »
For the wings:
I'm currently working on the egypt mod, so I have no time to add them at this point. I will try something like this later.
Maybe someone else want to test it with wings?
I'll see what I can do tonight.  What are the purpose of these bones that I have circled?  I moved them around and didn't really see them do anything.


dannylee

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #560 on: 12 October 2009, 04:22:50 »
i thought glest has already a dark magic faction, or is this an upgrade?

titi

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #561 on: 12 October 2009, 09:21:11 »
@John.d.h:

The imp is a recycled model! It was already rigged and textured when I started. Those free bones are used for things like weapons and shields originally. Just ignore them.
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Loronal

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #562 on: 12 October 2009, 21:33:19 »
Cool I like this mod its going really well. Much better than the GMD team  mod since you have all unique units none look alike or use the same textures

modman

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #563 on: 12 October 2009, 21:48:57 »
Thank you, Pheonix.  I would like to think we are doing better, since we spent much more time than they have.

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #564 on: 12 October 2009, 21:53:24 »
Hey, your release is 6.3 ours is BETA.
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Mark

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #565 on: 12 October 2009, 22:31:21 »
And, we have had less modeling done than you.  We only got Glade team going a while ago.  You have Eliminator pumping out models, which you seem to be content with, so I feel you have an advantage.  Nevertheless, we have had each of our ideas very much refined, so much that the original DM techtree looks like a whole different faction, whereas you have one of your members make a model and then you decide to nix the unit that the models are for. 

titi

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #566 on: 12 October 2009, 22:52:05 »
Oh no! This is no competition! I hope we are one glest community and everyone gives his best here to create a fun game experience free for everyone!
So please stop this discussion.
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-Archmage-

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #567 on: 12 October 2009, 23:30:29 »
Actually Titi, it is a competition....
We announced that a while ago.
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John.d.h

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #568 on: 13 October 2009, 00:37:03 »
Actually, the only people who announced or even acknowledged a competition were the members of GMD and Mark.  If they want to have a little competition between the two of them, that's fine.  I just want the community to have the best content possible, which is why you can see me trying to give practical advice to both teams.  GLADE isn't trying to win any competitions.  We're just trying to provide the best content we can.

modman

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #569 on: 13 October 2009, 02:52:20 »
Exactly my words.  Good that we have a czar which can double as public relations. :)

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #570 on: 13 October 2009, 09:12:26 »

I agree with John and Titi. Theres no need to be competative.

Check out my new Goblin faction - https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=9658.0

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #571 on: 13 October 2009, 11:04:53 »
Yeah actually I'd like to drop the competitive thing.......because GMD works to fast, I'd really like to slow down, but I have a feeling that Eliminator is going to keep rocketing stuff out, and no I'm not content with Eliminators models, I want to change them a bit.
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jda

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #572 on: 14 October 2009, 01:09:29 »
Thanks a lot for the comments :).  I would like to address a couple of things.

1) Dark Magic is meant to be balanced with Magitech.  Right now, it might not be, but I'm working on it.
I expected that. ;) Just wanted to give you a feel (and a comparison with something other than Magitech) of what DM looks like to me now. ;)

Quote
2) The Imp is meant to be somewhat parallel to the Horseman in Tech and the Drake Rider in Magic.  Maybe it is a little far into the game for it; I'll change a few things maybe.  But the stats are meant to be about equal.
The only problem with that is that both the Horseman and the Drake Rider have ranged attacks (even if not long-range) which is a huge advantage... So if the Imp is to match those with only a melee attack... it should be a much stronger one, I think.

Quote
3) The Gargoyle is an original unit, which is supposed to be very powerful; the kind of thing you hope never gets to your base.  The reason I like it is that I will be able to produce a bunch of them and overwhelm my enemy.  But of course by that time, a lot of units could be made by the enemy, and it's also a melee unit, so it's vulnerable to ranged units.
It looks pretty good, actually (but I haven't seen it fighting as the enemy was already dead when it got there... lol). I had just not imagined it like that. Also, keeping it as it is I think is fine but... maybe replace the white with a pale colour? It's not terribly awful to have a LIGHT-colored unit in DARK Magic but I really think white is too much, actually for most any unit in any faction done or to be done! :P

Quote
4) I don't like the standing animation for the Dark Mage.  It's rather distracting.  The cape should be more fluid-like and stay lower.
Yes, it is a bit over the edge, IMO just like it's wideness. But then again, its magic, so it's entitled to not only do strange things which are meaningful (like throwing energy-bursts) but also completely random animations such as a cape flying way straight and stiff and high! lol But yeah, that animation didn't really win my heart...
Quote
5) The Shadow Walker is meant to be a powerful mid-game unit which is a bit more powerful than the Guard but is slower.  This goes along with Dark Magic in general, which is slow but very powerful.  So kind of like lava that just creeps towards the base.
Agreed but Dark Mages have higher power and it's ranged. Then again so are Magic Battlemages compared to Ghost Armors? I don't really use Ghost Armors  a lot when playing Magic, but I aknowledge their usefulness. ;)

Quote
What did you think of the Gods Bane?
Ahh, I'd have liked a lot to see that one in action (only saw it on the g3d_viewer and thought "WTH is that?!" lol). But again the game ended before I had the time to.
As I usually only play the smaller 64x64 maps, seldomly a 128x128, the games are usually done pretty fast (which is why I play those smaller maps... :P). And on fast maps, quantity is definitely better than quality (you don't really have the time and resources to research and go all the ladder up to the strongest units 'cause you'll be destroyed by numbers before that...).
At least, this is how I see the game and play it.  ;D

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #573 on: 14 October 2009, 01:26:46 »
I'm fine with no competition, as Eliminator's is rushing everything.

I'm going to have to do a lot of re-animating.
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Loronal

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Re: GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic
« Reply #574 on: 14 October 2009, 09:49:49 »
Yup Im with Archmage I never fully joined the gmd team because it used 3 textures to make all of there buildings there are no unike textures all are the same maybe ill come back for the alien faction but the gmd team has a lot of work to do