GLADE Team Project: Dark Magic

[-Archmage-]

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[John.d.h]

I worked on the Imp a little bit.  The only thing I've changed so far is that I added wings (and corresponding bones).  Comments?

2) The Imp is meant to be somewhat parallel to the Horseman in Tech and the Drake Rider in Magic.  Maybe it is a little far into the game for it; I'll change a few things maybe.  But the stats are meant to be about equal.

The only problem with that is that both the Horseman and the Drake Rider have ranged attacks (even if not long-range) which is a huge advantage... So if the Imp is to match those with only a melee attack... it should be a much stronger one, I think.

Hmm... maybe a short-range fire attack would be fitting?  I think I still prefer a claw attack, though.

4) I don't like the standing animation for the Dark Mage.  It's rather distracting.  The cape should be more fluid-like and stay lower.

Yes, it is a bit over the edge, IMO just like it's wideness. But then again, its magic, so it's entitled to not only do strange things which are meaningful (like throwing energy-bursts) but also completely random animations such as a cape flying way straight and stiff and high! lol But yeah, that animation didn't really win my heart...

Hmm... I see your point.  I'll see what I can do in terms of fixing that.

[modman]

2) The Imp is meant to be somewhat parallel to the Horseman in Tech and the Drake Rider in Magic.  Maybe it is a little far into the game for it; I'll change a few things maybe.  But the stats are meant to be about equal.

The only problem with that is that both the Horseman and the Drake Rider have ranged attacks (even if not long-range) which is a huge advantage... So if the Imp is to match those with only a melee attack... it should be a much stronger one, I think.

I cannot remember if I told titi that the Imp was to use extension in the arms and legs to scratch...  That would make a larger range, more similar to the Horseman.  Otherwise, I can always use a particle system, although I do not want the Imp to attack air; air will be the Imp's Achilles heel.

I worked on the Imp a little bit.  The only thing I've changed so far is that I added wings (and corresponding bones).  Comments?

I like what you've done for the wings.  They look good.  An improvement to the model overall, again, would be longer arms and legs, and long spines on the back.

2) The Imp is meant to be somewhat parallel to the Horseman in Tech and the Drake Rider in Magic.  Maybe it is a little far into the game for it; I'll change a few things maybe.  But the stats are meant to be about equal.

The only problem with that is that both the Horseman and the Drake Rider have ranged attacks (even if not long-range) which is a huge advantage... So if the Imp is to match those with only a melee attack... it should be a much stronger one, I think.

Hmm... maybe a short-range fire attack would be fitting?  I think I still prefer a claw attack, though.

I'm OK with short range fire too, but I agree with you that claws would be optimal.

OT: If you want to join us join us now. Help us get more work done.

Please quit it with the off topic stuff.  If you have something to say, please stay on topic when you say it, say it in a PM, or reply in another topic.  This topic is meant to be a focused one where people don't have to sift through (and read) irrelevant stuff just to keep up with the real discussion.

[-Archmage-]

Sorry Modman.

Idea 1-I think the short range fire attack idea would better fit the Imp, I mean, you are looking for a ranged attack, and having huge hands or arms wouldn't be a very nice looking solution.
Idea 2-Or maybe it he did have a claw attack and its range was one, then you could increase the strength(or some other stat) to make up for the shorter range.

But I think, if you want to make this unit unique from the Horseman and Drake Rider, that you would go with Idea 2.

[titi]

@John dh: It really looks better ( regarding the untextured model ), But  does it really work with the wings in an animation?
how can we texture the wings without getting into trouble with glests alphaproblem when the wings get next to the body? Lets try it .

For the attack:
If the attack type is such a big problm, probably the imp get a new place in the techtree and another unit fitting better with the idea of a range unit takes its place?

[Mark]

About the imp:

About the model:  I would like to completely re-do the model.  I will make it more lanky, (with a thin, muscular look), and it will have large wings, spine spikes, and vicious bat/chupacabra-like claws.  (in the picture, the claws are attached to humanoid arms, but I will attach them to the wings.)  It will approximately be the size of a horseman, and I will tell you how to animate it.  I have some really good ideas.  So for the model, imagine a bat with spikes on the spine and humanoid, skinny, muscular legs. 
About the animations:  Attack:  He will swipe his wing around, and with it his claw.
Move:  He will kind of strut slowly like a bat does, except right-side up and he will tuck his arms into his body. 
Charge:  He will take leaps and bounds, alternating between short hops and giant strides  (if there is too much of a problem where there is a huge visual gap between the charge anim and the attack beginning anim, we could just revert back to the old giant stride idea.)
stand.  He will stand with his wings partially extended, looking around with it's head and slightly fanning it's body with it's wings.

Another option:  You could just go back to that fantastic model you two made, John.d.h, and Titi, because that is also very cool.  I just had to get that out of my head before I forgot it. 

Idea 1-I think the short range fire attack idea would better fit the Imp, I mean, you are looking for a ranged attack, and having huge hands or arms wouldn't be a very nice looking solution.

Noooo!  this is sounding way too much like the drake rider.

Alright, time for a new idea!  Let's discuss the shadow walker.

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[url=http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2281/shadowwalker.png]http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2281/shadowwalker.png[/url]
Okay, as you can see in the image linked above, I have made a new model of the shadow walker.  It uses what I could make of the discussion (believe me, it was quite confusing), and is not quite done.  For the parts I do have done, I have marked my lines and have applied a texture to the UV area screen-thingy.  I am open to discussions, especially about the helmet, because right now it is just the Ghost Armor’s Corinthian helmet with extruded horns.  I remember a couple images, but if someone could choose the best one... well that would be great. 

Note:  This model is 1002 polies, so if anyone wants to make a suggestion on how to cut it down, please do.

[modman]

Got a concept for the Imp here:

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[url=http://www.deletionquality.net/assets/art/flyingimp.jpg]http://www.deletionquality.net/assets/art/flyingimp.jpg[/url]

[Fluffy203]

lol that looks like a flying unit for sure 

[modman]

We're trying to show the overall body type here...

[Fluffy203]

i think john's is perfect hit it dead on , thats what i would've modeled

[titi]

Cool, I like this flying imp from your concept modman. This is something that should really fit with glest restrictions regarding transparency and details. But this a completly other unit! Its a flying one. Can't we change our techtree a bit to integrate a flying imp and a cheap ground imp like I made it( with johns extension if it works )? I want to model this flying bastard .
Maybe lets drop another unit which is not done yet.

[John.d.h]

We could drop the Harpy and replace it with the flying imp.  I was never a big fan of the Harpy anyway.

[Fluffy203]

they would be the exact same unit anyways , just change it up a lit bit , but i still like john's model

[modman]

Again, you guys, I just want to show the overall body type of the Imp is taken from this unit.  Also notable is the wings attached to the arms.

But more images of the Imp won't be necessary because Mark is modeling it now.

[Mark]

I am working on an improved imp, (no offense to anyone).  Also, can someone say something about the shadow walker?

they would be the exact same unit anyways , just change it up a lit bit , but i still like john's model

I can see what you mean, but I like the harpy as a light air recon, a bit like the Ornithopter in tech, but much faster.  It would also have some GAE implementations...

lol that looks like a flying unit for sure 

Yeah, but imagine it had smaller wings and a larger body, and so would be on the ground.  I mean, I think it would be ok as a flying unit, but I think the concept could use work as of yet...

[Fluffy203]

i think the imp should like hover or be like a chicken can't fly , but trys so its a like a jump or something

[titi]

Thats what I did with the dark elder. Its charge animation is done like this, but I think modman doesn't integrate it yet.

[jda]

@ Mark

About the Shadow Walker, it's not quite as I pictured it but then again it's far from being my concept to start off. 
However, I do remeber reading somewhere the original concept conveyed and humanoid unit but with a somewhat corrupted body, twisted-like. I guess you could easily take your model and bend his back and make his legs less straight by simply using the bone-structure, that for what I've read... I never modeled myself! 

For the helmet, instead of horns, you could have a different kind of "spiking". I was think maybe like three to four straight spikes (about 1/3 of the height of those horns or less!) in a straight line from the front-top of the head to the back of it, laid out pretty much as a punk/moheecan hair-do, if you get my meaning... Also, instead of that long "chin" on the helmet, maybe make it so there is NO extension of it...? (there is a line that comes from the jaw that then get more pointy at the chin - my thought would be to make the chin line the straight continuity of the jaw; would that make the poly-count get any lower BTW???).

Also I'm not too sure about the sword.

Other than that, I think it looks pretty good so far.
Just keep it misterious. That is important, not to reveal too much of it. Which is hard 'cause then you can have no detail... 

[-Archmage-]

For the sword, I think it'd be cool to have it big, and extremely dangerous looking, but of course not too big.
I already have a good idea for it. And for the animation.

[Mark]

For the sword, I think it'd be cool to have it big, and extremely dangerous looking, but of course not too big.

Ya really need to look at the

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[url=http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2281/shadowwalker.png]picture[/url]. 

@ Mark

About the Shadow Walker

Finally!  A reply!

Also, instead of that long "chin" on the helmet

Yeah, I just heavily modified the ghost armor model from magic to get this, and i really only changed the helmet by adding horns.  The ghost armor wore a corinthian helmet, and ancient greek helmet, like

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[url=http://www.lawrensnest.com/images/GRK6058BP.jpg]this[/url] one, minus the plume. 

Also, instead of that long "chin" on the helmet, maybe make it so there is NO extension of it...? (there is a line that comes from the jaw that then get more pointy at the chin - my thought would be to make the chin line the straight continuity of the jaw; would that make the poly-count get any lower BTW???).

I think I could do that, yes, but about reducing the poly count, no it really wouldn't, sorry. 

About the Shadow Walker, it's not quite as I pictured it but then again it's far from being my concept to start off. 
However, I do remeber reading somewhere the original concept conveyed and humanoid unit but with a somewhat corrupted body, twisted-like. I guess you could easily take your model and bend his back and make his legs less straight by simply using the bone-structure, that for what I've read... I never modeled myself! 

Well, I was thinking about using my cloak from the weapons cache that only concealed the shoulders and head, but I like the helmet and shoulder spikes.  Maybe I could add the cloak, remove the helmet, and put the shoulder pauldron-spikes on top of the cloak.  What do you think?  And about the twistedness, well he is really not destroyed, just stripped of power.  I like the idea of concealment of features, but not the twistedness.

And for the animation.

I would like to animate it myself, but I will give instructions if you want.

EDIT!:  I have a new model for the imp.  Sorry for the wait.

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[url=http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/836/view1o.jpg]View 1 (Side view with scale swordsman)[/url]
[url=http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3874/view2c.jpg]View 2 (Back View showing tail and wings)[/url]
[url=http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5652/view3z.jpg]View 3 (Front view with face)[/url]
The three images above show the new Imp model I made.  It is about 8 feet tall if a swordsman is 6, and is long and lanky.  I will add spikes down his back, but only after the community has their say.  BTW I have the seams marked, so I can just unwrap if I get the go-ahead.  What does the community say?

[titi]

I like it,it's very good but it will not be easy to animate it with these wings! Its something completly diffenrent from the thing I made .
Maybe we now got 2 units with this.....

[John.d.h]

I'm glad to see your skills are improving, Mark!  I think Titi's Imp is good for the ground unit, and Mark's would be good for the flying unit (instead of the Harpy).  We could always rename the ground one to Gremlin or something like that, and call the flying one Imp.  In that case, the flying Imp probably needs to have its legs shrunken a bit (and maybe made more talon-like) and the wings should maybe be a bit bigger.  I'm not sure about the tail.

[modman]

I think Titi's Imp is good for the ground unit, and Mark's would be good for the flying unit (instead of the Harpy).

Of course I am not in favor of that option, John, but if you and others see it as the best option, it's fine.  I mean, I think titi has worked hard on what he's done so far, so we should incorporate that in our overall design.

[John.d.h]

Hmm... well it probably wouldn't be too hard to turn Mark's imp into a harpy if you would prefer that.  We'd basically just have to do the same changes I mentioned in my last post, and then do something about that tail.

[modman]

That would be great!  Best possible option!

I'm just trying to keep everyone happy.  I have had past experiences where my quality expectations are too much for some, and the team can fall apart.  Then it gets ugly...

Worst case scenario, I guess if that were to happen, is that development almost halts, but I'll learn modeling and finish it myself, but it will take much longer, then.