Melee attack for archers

[Darkholme]

Hi! I started playing Glest recently and came with the idea of creating a few new factions. I started sketching the basic units and thought it wouldn't be too mad to give the generic basic range based unit a tiny melee weapon. Maybe I should start saying the two main ways archers perform, depending on the game:

 - A swordman aproaches the archer while being shot arrows until he can sway his blade. Then they attack each other until one of them dies  This is what happens in glest

 - A swordman aproaches the archer while being shot arrows until he can sway his blade. When the swordman gets too near, the archer can't aim positively so he has to back off (there is minimum radius in which he can't shoot). It then depends on which unit moves faster: the one who does defeats the enemy 

While the second case is a bit more realistic, I would like to see the archer take out a short sword or dagger and really defend himself. Of course, if both had 100% hp the archer would never beat a trained swordman with his tiny weapon and little to no armor. This would not be difficult to do in game ["archer (bow)" can morph into "archer (short sword)" and viceversa, with little freeze time]. The problem is, as the ranged attack deals more damage than the melee, no player would change the status unless he cannot attack in that minimum radius.

So the choice would be to run-and-attack or just face off the oponent

I hope this is not on GAE yet, I've only played GLEST  But checking through a few of the units' xmls I counldn't find anything similar to that 

[-Archmage-]

i'd say you could make an animation for the archer in which he pulled a shortsword(slung over back) attacked with it and then put it back in the sling

[silnarm]

I hope this is not on GAE yet, I've only played GLEST  But checking through a few of the units' xmls I counldn't find anything similar to that 

I'm 99% sure Daniel added code to do this, I recall seeing it in the UnitUpdater somewhere...
I'm not sure if it's 'hooked up' yet, or perhaps if it requires new xml (ie. works under FPM)... but there is code for this in there... I'll investigate when I get a chance.

[gameboy]

yeah, i kinda suggested this quite awhile a ago.

[Darkholme]

My English is not that good so I may say it in a different way:

Most RTS games' ranged siege weapons, like catapults, have a minimum radius in which they cannot attack. This doesn't happen on normal glest, though (and I don't know if it does on GAE, as I can't seem to install it  ). Unfortunately my programming knowledge doesn't go beyond the "hello world" 

[Mark]

This type of thing would help make sure that the ranged units do not keep shooting when an enemy is near.  i think that the most logical situation is the units pulling out some type of sword or dagger.  In various games i have seen this, and in some i have seen the unit run away.  I think that if glest maps were to ever be able to be bigger an archer would have a range of about 30 and a "minimum range" of about 5.  This would ensure that the units were not killing each other with splashes and also rid battles of ranged units firing on units that are right next to it.

[silnarm]

i think that the most logical situation is the units pulling out some type of sword or dagger.

I'm in favour of them backing off and trying to shoot again, if feasible... Obviously the act of stopping and shooting means they are unlikely to be able to do it indefinitely but if they can get a extra shot a two out then it should be the default behaviour, only when they have no choice but to fight hand-to-hand should they pull out their sword/dagger/whatever.  This behaviour should be over-rideable though, through attack preferences somehow...

I think that if glest maps were to ever be able to be bigger an archer would have a range of...

This is definitely on the cards, probably a few months away though. It also raises the problem of changing stats to suit map size, even when I get big maps working well.. there initially at least wont be many available, people are going to want to play on existing small maps, and we don't want a duplicate tech tree with different stats for ranged units.

And, if we did, we'd have to rebalance it...

Of course, we need a whole new map format in any case... so maybe we can organise to integrate of bunch of 'big' stuff at once, break compatibility, but just once

[Mark]

In a game i used to play alot, the ranged units would almost always run from an enemy assailant.  The problem is, they would be killed if they were surrounded, or if they were not fast enough.  In other games you can set the ranged units to agressive, where they fight close enemies with melee, or defensive, where they would run away.

[John.d.h]

Sounds a bit like Medieval Total War, where you can set your units to aggressively engage the enemy, stand their ground, or run away when they get too close.  This could go well with the "unit stances" idea for GAE.  I can't seem to find the thread anywhere, but basically it was proposed that units could be set to be aggressive, defensive, etc., like in a lot of other RTS games.

[Mark]

No, not Medieval 2.  But come to think of it, medieval 2 does have that for some missile units.  By the way-- one of the main reasons i was sidetracked from glest was the medieval 2 total war demo (i'm a beast at agincourt-and it is relatively historically accurate, just on a scale, so it was addicting).