Post Your Ideas for Glest Improvement Here

[modman]

It seems that almost two times a month a new topic is started on Mods, General Discussion, or GAE listing off five to ten new ideas someone has for Glest.  I think that a lot of these ideas are good, but they just aren’t going to happen overnight.  I posted this in General Discussion so that the ideas covered will be of not only changes to the engine, or of new factions or changes in factions, but can be of general subject.  I’m also trying to keep some of the requests not be engine changes.  I would also like other people to put their own ideas here because then there won’t be so many similar topics strewn around these forums and also because then there will be no repeats.  In addition, when you post a new idea, please write about a paragraph explaining what your idea is exactly, and bold the specific text.  Then, when I add the idea, I will make a link to that post.  And now, I've finally finished reorganizing the different ideas into the four categories below:

I. Interface/Controls
•   Viewing a faction diagram ingame
•   Rotating buildings
•   More Resources Possible
•   A Glest "lobby" within Glest
•   Showing the faction diagram ingame
•   New game ingame interface
•   Map preview during game setup
•   ToolTips
•   Clicking on a resource
•   Win/loss records
•   Tech tree manager

II. Map Editor
•   New map editor (built into Glest):
    -->Glestimals and Collectible Creeps
    -->Cliffs
    -->Animated tileset objects
•   Language files for tech trees/factions
•   Usability features
•   Error Listing/XML debugger/Error Logs

III. Gameplay
•   Nocturnalism
    -->Different sight values depending on night and day
•   Possibility of giving starting values to EP and other custom stats
•   Mounting other units
•   More custom stats (basically something a command requires that can have regen)
•   Heroes
•   Hiding
•   Physics
•   Shoving
•   Treaties
•   Battle mode (a new mode where gameplay is like Medieval II: Total War)
•   Walls
•   Trading
•   Garrisoning units
•   Units walking on walls
•   Campaign mode

IV. Better Artificial Intelligence Link to Topic | Omega's Webpage
•   Use secondary attacks
•   Regrouping after a set distance
•   Using splash attacks wiser
•   Building extra research buildings
•   Battle Tactics (force concentration, fortification, recon, etc.)
•   Strategies (basically, a game-plan)
•   Retreating
•   AI moods
•   AI programming with LUA

V. LUA
•   Reading and Writing to a file with LUA
•   Scenarios might be unlocked by beating other scenarios
•   Alternate objectives to win (Like sending a unit to a certain area, destroying a particular building or building a certain amount of troops)
•   Extra Lua features

VI. Miscellaneous
•   Undeads faction for Magitech (to add an extra magical element to the tech tree)
•   Black and brown particles for splashes and projections
•   Extended factions in Magitech
•   Mines for Magitech (buildings which harvest resources)
•   New resources moonstone for Magic and iron for Tech
•   Graphs and advanced statistics tracking

[Julius]

Hmm maybe it would be best if a new map editor would be included directly in the game?

Also it would be nice if map-makers had more possibilities to make maps... e.g. more variety with map-models (and their placement) as well as holes on the ground with a background for hell/demon/space maps etc.

Edit: I think I read that heroes are already possible with GAE. Isn't a merger with that planned anyways?

Oh and of course a master-server & and game-browser would be nice, but I guess I am just repeating what so many have said already.

[ElimiNator]

what is a hero? Isn't it just a unit?

[John.d.h]

I don't see how heroes aren't already possible, though I suppose some more advanced features would be nice.  I believe there was talk of a more developed experience system as well as carrying items like in Warcraft 3.

My #1 wish is a campaign mode.  As long as that gets done, I'll be happy.  That goes along with the "Scenarios might be unlocked by beating other scenarios" part.  I think the main thing that needs to be done for this to be possible is a more advanced scripting system, featuring (among other things) a way to write to and read from a file with Lua.  For example, when you beat scenario one, it would change the value in a file from 0 to 1 or something like that, and scenario two would only be accessible if value==1.  Of course this holds a lot more possibilities, such as actions and achievements in a previous scenario effecting changes in the next one, as well as being able to carry units over from one scenario to the next like in Battle for Wesnoth or Warlords: Battlecry 3.  This would be especially useful with a more advanced hero system, like the one in WC3, where the hero's experience and other features could be built up over the course of a campaign.  I'm thinking that each campaign would have an XML file listing the scenarios in it and variables for each, like whether or not the scenario is unlocked and custom variables for things that might happen during the campaign, like letting the bad guys get away, cutting off the enemy supply train, or slaughtering those helpless villagers, as well as stuff like how many kills your hero has.

Edit: Made some stuff bold for easier visibility.

[Omega]

I would like to see a campaign mode too. Of course, we'll probably need at least a few other victory conditions and lua options first, since it would be dull to have only scenarios where you kill things. What about something where I could sneak through enemy lines without getting seen, meaning stealth, or other forms of scenarios.

The way I see it, heros are possible, but they don't feel so natural making a 1 time resource. Probably wouldn't be hard to impliment a 'production limit' on units though.

Some of your things are really just mods, and won't require any programming at all. Besides, magitech IS being extended with FPM, which has some undead units for magic. However, developement is halted (I actually would like to take over that sometime in the future and get it started up). In order to continue expansion, we need more ideas, and if you look at the wiki page, you'll see we need to have a carry function (you forgot that).

YOU CAN ZOOM WITH MMB! I tested it myself in GAE before my computer crashed. However, the more you zoom out, the more you lag! If you can't, it may be your mouse.

As well, what about gleximals? Or is that what you mean by 'creeps'? I'm not familiar with the termage.

In 2nd priority, you should add implimentation of image formats. Hailstone or someone mentioned they'd try to do it before the end of the year.

Anyway, great idea for a post. For a MUCH MUCH longer list, check out the one I made a long time ago on the glest.110mb.com guide. (under improving glest). Mine isn't sorted by priority though, it's catigorized.

[John.d.h]

The way I see it, heros are possible, but they don't feel so natural making a 1 time resource. Probably wouldn't be hard to impliment a 'production limit' on units though.

In campaign mode it would be even easier.  You'd be starting with the hero, and just wouldn't have any way to produce another.

Besides, magitech IS being extended with FPM, which has some undead units for magic. However, developement is halted (I actually would like to take over that sometime in the future and get it started up). In order to continue expansion, we need more ideas, and if you look at the wiki page, you'll see we need to have a carry function (you forgot that).

I was under the impression that almost no actual modding work had been done for FPM, just programming to allow the features.  I could be wrong though.  Personally, I think the whole concept needs to be re-worked.

As well, what about gleximals? Or is that what you mean by 'creeps'? I'm not familiar with the termage.

I think "creeps" is a little broader of a term, referring to all kinds of units that aren't part of any faction.  It could be animals, bandits, monsters...

[Omega]

The way I see it, heros are possible, but they don't feel so natural making a 1 time resource. Probably wouldn't be hard to impliment a 'production limit' on units though.

In campaign mode it would be even easier.  You'd be starting with the hero, and just wouldn't have any way to produce another.
[/quote]
True, but I wouldn't consider it priority.

I was under the impression that almost no actual modding work had been done for FPM, just programming to allow the features.  I could be wrong though.  Personally, I think the whole concept needs to be re-worked.

Haven't you tried FPM? It is far better than Magitech, but the only problem is that it is incomplete, and in my opinion, a bit unbalanced. Magic is strong enough on its own, but with a sub faction and necromancers... Insane. Also, the CPU never uses subfactions for some reason. Think of FPM as the magitech expansion pack! It does have some new models, and all the xmls are painstakingly edited to have the paths right and all. Of course, it is missing plenty of models, units, and icons. It also needs a slightly improved AI to use subfactions, and needs a few more features. Dunno why it seems so abandoned... But since it was released, it seems fitting for the glest community to work on (but only after we get the few new features that we need).

[wciow]

For those who are not aware of the history of GAE/FPM, shortly after I joined the forums (jan 08) Daniel.Santos joined. We started talking about a project that Daniel wanted to make to extend the magitech faction.

I started working on the models and Daniel was working on the unit ideas and XMLs. Daniel then started programming some additional features into the engine to allow some of the units he wanted. This then became known as GAE and a board was set up for it.

FPM was pretty much abandoned because Daniel (and later Hailstone) were busy making GAE and I was the sole modeler working on a a faction which was at least as big as the original magitech.

If anyone wants to continue the work on FPM feel free to do so. I think that most of the original threads were lost in the last board crash but I still have some tech trees and models that i saved. However, please be aware that most of the original animations are shockingly bad and need to be redone. 

[modman]

I was under the impression that almost no actual modding work had been done for FPM, just programming to allow the features.  I could be wrong though.  Personally, I think the whole concept needs to be re-worked.

Haven't you tried FPM? It is far better than Magitech, but the only problem is that it is incomplete, and in my opinion, a bit unbalanced. Magic is strong enough on its own, but with a sub faction and necromancers... Insane. Also, the CPU never uses subfactions for some reason. Think of FPM as the magitech expansion pack! It does have some new models, and all the xmls are painstakingly edited to have the paths right and all. Of course, it is missing plenty of models, units, and icons. It also needs a slightly improved AI to use subfactions, and needs a few more features. Dunno why it seems so abandoned... But since it was released, it seems fitting for the glest community to work on (but only after we get the few new features that we need).

FPM might be good, but I created a whole new topic a while back (which I wanted to be the Glade Team's initial project, just in case you thought it was my idea; people wanted Dark Magic so I went along with it) for an extended Magitech which in my opinion fit the 'feels' of the factions better.  FPM basically goes into undeads after the default Magic.  I wanted differently, so that is what I mean by an extended Magitech.  The whole reason I want extended factions is that most professional games have longer factions than Glest does and longer factions would also add an extra element of strategy to Glest.  It would no longer be possible to get to the end of the faction before the enemy's first wave, so you would have to decide what your goal military should be when the first wave does come.

It might also be important to note that these are new features for Glest not GAE.  Any features meant for GAE I would also like into Glest (but of course I'm not calling the shots ).

[modman]

In the future, could everybody please bold the actual improvement they want me to add, so I am less confused?  Thanks.

[ElimiNator]

Well Water units and cliffs would be nice.
What I mean by cliffs is that glest only has hills no clifs.

[Omega]

How can glest be upgraded though? Martino says he has no plans to, and declared this the final version. It's only a matter of time before glest soon becomes obsolete and GAE takes over. After all, it is the only one in developement. The only problem is GAE's stability, which is why it should adopt two versions, stable and experimental.

If I decide to get working on FPM, I'd probably redo most models completely, since some are way rigid and unrealistic. I may get away with just reanimating some, but the rest would be in need of a complete makeover!

Suppose we took some of your ideas modman to improve FPM?

Custom Stats which are like EP. They can be used by skills and can have regen values. In short, it's like having more than one type of EP. Examples could be ammo, fuel, energy, strength, etc; Could add TONS of depth into the game. Ways to give starting value to EP (and above stats). Basically, EP starts at 0, meaning we can't have a one time EP use, since it needs a regen or it will be 0 forever. Proposing a way to start with a specified amount of EP.

EDIT// WAIT A SECOND! What is this about some extra resources for magitech?!? We don't need (or want) these extra resources unless there is a chock-load of new units to use them, and I fail to see how it is 1st priority. Besides, more resources mean we have to spend more time in the beginning harvesting them. BAH!

[silnarm]

1. Tech-tree hacking tool. I've been preparing a modified magitech tech-tree for a scenario, and I can't believe you people have put up with the current system for so long.

Custom Stats which are like EP. They can be used by skills and can have regen values. In short, it's like having more than one type of EP. Examples could be ammo, fuel, energy, strength, etc;

This is a really good idea, it might actually be best to remove EP from the engine, and implement it this way for magitech. Of course, this is no small job, and could well create serious nightmares in the multiplayer code.

[modman]

How can glest be upgraded though? Martino says he has no plans to, and declared this the final version. It's only a matter of time before glest soon becomes obsolete and GAE takes over. After all, it is the only one in development. The only problem is GAE's stability, which is why it should adopt two versions, stable and experimental.

Yea, you're right.  I just wasn't wrapping my brain around that concept late last night!   Basically, once GAE becomes stable, it in a sense becomes vanilla Glest, since Glest would be outdated.

Suppose we took some of your ideas modman to improve FPM?

What do you mean by that?  Did you not check the link to my topic for extended Magitech factions?  Personally, besides Dark Magic, I would like nothing more than to have those concepts incorporated into Magitech.

EDIT// WAIT A SECOND! What is this about some extra resources for magitech?!? We don't need (or want) these extra resources unless there is a chock-load of new units to use them, and I fail to see how it is 1st priority. Besides, more resources mean we have to spend more time in the beginning harvesting them. BAH!

Again, this is for the extended factions for Magitech.  They should be required for the late-game units I (and others) have concocted.

[John.d.h]

Well Water units and cliffs would be nice.

Water units would be very nice.  It seems those are very close to being possible already, right Silnarm?

1. Tech-tree hacking tool.

By that do you mean a way to make only certain units/upgrades available in a scenario?  If so, this is absolutely crucial to a campaign mode!

This is a really good idea, it might actually be best to remove EP from the engine, and implement it this way for magitech. Of course, this is no small job, and could well create serious nightmares in the multiplayer code.

I think this was a long-term goal a while back, before Daniel mysteriously disappeared, as well as redoing the healing/repair system to make it able to replenish any value, whether it be HP, ammo, fuel, or what have you.

Again, this is for the extended factions for Magitech.  They should be required for the late-game units I (and others) have concocted.

I agree with Omega that this should be very low-priority.  However, there's nothing anyone can do (or should do) to stop someone from making them if they want.

[modman]

Again, this is for the extended factions for Magitech.  They should be required for the late-game units I (and others) have concocted.

I agree with Omega that this should be very low-priority.  However, there's nothing anyone can do (or should do) to stop someone from making them if they want.

I put them as a first priority because the first priority was also for ideas that wouldn't be that hard to "make" (or whatever verb you choose ).  I guess I should change the sorting method so that I sort only by importance.

[Omega]

Suppose we took some of your ideas modman to improve FPM?

What do you mean by that?  Did you not check the link to my topic for extended Magitech factions?  Personally, besides Dark Magic, I would like nothing more than to have those concepts incorporated into Magitech.

That's exactly what I meant, basically taking some of your ideas and putting them into FPM. Not too many, only a couple good ones, so that FPM is nicely balanced. Tech is weaker than ever, of course.

Error Listing: when glest recieves an error, such as when testing a new tech tree, it tells the player, then exits 'so-called gracefully', as daniel once said. Since it exits because it is told to, why not continue, keeping track of all errors in a log file, and then right before starting the game, it will exit gracefully? It couldn't be too hard to impliment, since the error reading system is already there. It just needs to be tweaked to continue until the everything is done, rather than exiting right away. Possibly it may need some other tweaks to ensure that there is no other crashes from the lack of missing media. But I can't say for sure, Silnarm's the wiz.

[Hectate]

Error Listing: when glest recieves an error, such as when testing a new tech tree, it tells the player, then exits 'so-called gracefully', as daniel once said. Since it exits because it is told to, why not continue, keeping track of all errors in a log file, and then right before starting the game, it will exit gracefully? It couldn't be too hard to impliment, since the error reading system is already there. It just needs to be tweaked to continue until the everything is done, rather than exiting right away. Possibly it may need some other tweaks to ensure that there is no other crashes from the lack of missing media. But I can't say for sure, Silnarm's the wiz.

One downside with keeping track of multiple errors is that one error might not be visible due to another. For instance, an error within "particle\bomb_splash.xml" would never be logged if you don't reference it elsewhere or even if it gets a "file not found" error first.

Granted, it'd be nice to fix multiple errors, even 2 restarts with 5 fixes each is better than 10 total restarts.

What about a Glest .xml debugger? A small simple program that takes a .xml (unit, faction, anything) and checks it all for required files, structure, and syntax? Just a simple command prompt that outputs a text log. "C:\Glest\glest_check.exe faction.xml" would be all the input needed. It would save a lot of "load and create game" time.

[Omega]

Yes, that would be EXTREMELY useful. Of course, you would refer the folder, not the xml, since we need to make sure the xml matches that folder. I have considered trying to do something, but am not good enough by far. I would have to check for numerous xmls, and images, just checking if they existed, and my coding skills have been put on hold since I no longer have MSVS2008... I also lost my 1000+ page ebook about c++ coding, and I never even reached the chapter about file system operations. I only know the bare basics, and could basically read a file, or write one, but that's it...

[Mark]

I think that an error log would be great!  Other games of all complexity and file size use them.  It would be especially useful for finding patterns in my xml mistakes so when i am crashing a new mod i can learn.

[silnarm]

Water units would be very nice.  It seems those are very close to being possible already, right Silnarm?

Yes. Still a bit of work to do to get shipyards working, but that shouldn't be to far away

1. Tech-tree hacking tool.

By that do you mean a way to make only certain units/upgrades available in a scenario?  If so, this is absolutely crucial to a campaign mode!

I was just thinking to make a modified tech tree easily, without copying all the models, textures & sounds. But being able to just disable units from a 'campaign' xml is an excellent idea!

error logging

Try the latest GAE I think just about all the problems are sorted out on trunk now, so there should be some stable binaries shortly...

[ElimiNator]

I think that it would be good is glest only loaded the techs you picked.

[-Archmage-]

A map editor thing.
I like hills and mountains, instead of little rises, you could have the camera stay a certain distance away from the ground at the center of the screen.

[Omega]

I think that it would be good is glest only loaded the techs you picked.

I do recall someone made a patch for this some time ago. Can't remember wether or not it was implimented into GAE... Hailstone?

[hailstone]

GAE will only load the required factions.