Author Topic: Problem with exporting model.  (Read 5602 times)

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Problem with exporting model.
« on: 15 August 2009, 10:13:39 »
well, the problem is that i have a model, wich i want to export, now it did export good ONE time, before i scaled and changed animation on it.

so i made my model. foragot to set animation right exported it into glest.
and i aslo ctrl-T'ed it.

Dindt work(obivouly).

now i scaled it and set animation start and end to one. and postion to one.

it is a "high" poly model with 1884 Faces. the error it throws at me is this.

Vadility error:iElement indices does not forllow DTD

Imageshack link for pic.
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4748/errormvf.jpg

WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #1 on: 15 August 2009, 22:11:14 »
Bump for great justice :D
WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #2 on: 15 August 2009, 23:11:38 »
oh, ive kinda half fixed it now, ive just ctrl-t'ed it once more after subsurfing, its not a EXTREME high poly at about 5k Polys, no lag problems so far tho, il report here now and then. Glest does a excelent job rendering it :D
WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

Omega

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,167
  • Professional bug writer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #3 on: 16 August 2009, 09:22:41 »
AH!!!! Do not subsurf, do not subsurf!!!

Unless you 'apply' it, it does not work in glest. As well, SUBSURFING IS EVIL! It is the EVILEST part of blender every known to man. Those who touch it are doomed to LAG for ETERNITY IN MODELERS HELL! No, seriously, don't use it. You can use the smooth feature (not smooth render, smoothing in the mesh tools menu when in edit mode). This will add very little poly while still smoothing it. If you need to cut the model into more to smooth it manually, use subdivide (which can be smoothed). Just please do not use subsurf. If you read the noob to pro thing, it tells you to subsurf. Don't. That is not for glest. It isn't for keeping things low poly either. A good modeler will avoid that button like the plague.
Edit the MegaGlest wiki: http://docs.megaglest.org/

My personal projects: http://github.com/KatrinaHoffert

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #4 on: 16 August 2009, 13:18:48 »
Hahaha :D EVUL SUBSURF :D, now btw,i think its a nice option. i use it alot :D ALL THE TIME INFACT. nah, just kidding, i used it, it works nice :D, dont hate subsurf, it dosnt ad THAT many polys if you use it wisely. :D. the poly i use now is 5k :D, thankfully i have a friend with a slow computer to test it also :D.
WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

gameboy

  • Guest
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #5 on: 16 August 2009, 13:36:36 »
Subsurf is a very good tool, only its not meant for glest.

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #6 on: 16 August 2009, 18:55:55 »
well, im gonna go out on a limb here and take that risk. i want to stress the engine as much as posible. so :D :Dl, im a real dare devil :D, but il conside what you say, so please elaborate on WHY exaclty its SO bad. :D
« Last Edit: 16 August 2009, 21:36:11 by Coldfusionstorm »
WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

ElimiNator

  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,391
  • The MegaGlest Moder.
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #7 on: 17 August 2009, 03:51:11 »
BECAUSE IT IS HIGH POLLY!
BTW I use it... :P

But I use it very wisely... No one knows I use it.

Tell me who though that I used it? Truthfully now...?
Get the Vbros': Packs 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5!

Omega

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,167
  • Professional bug writer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #8 on: 17 August 2009, 08:04:37 »
It is bad because it can increase the poly count anywhere from 3x to over 100x! As well, it is applied to objects, not selected meshes, which can be hazardous. If not applied, it will cause an export error, and it also causes shrinking of the objects, in addition to the deformation, which may or may not be good.

No profession model uses subsurf. None of magitech's models use subsurf, nor do any of military's, and the mod mega pack doesn't appear to have any subsurfing. If you look at my blender tutorial on the glest guide, I never subsurfed.

However, it can be useful, but has its own place and time. That place just isn't glest.

(Ok, maybe evil was an exageration, but in glest, it's as good as a murder to slower PCs)
Edit the MegaGlest wiki: http://docs.megaglest.org/

My personal projects: http://github.com/KatrinaHoffert

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #9 on: 17 August 2009, 12:25:19 »
well, i have a friend with a bad-ass slow pc and he hasnt had any problems yet, and il only use subsurf as long as the poly count of the result is acceptable. we allready had some major battles with lots of units also, for my organic faction, its a great tool, and yes evil is a fun exagration :D, but as said, i can reduce the 5k poly when nessaray, :D. about 2 k polys :D
WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

ElimiNator

  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,391
  • The MegaGlest Moder.
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #10 on: 17 August 2009, 15:06:49 »
That is still to many  >:( 2.000 pollys will be bad! :(
Get the Vbros': Packs 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5!

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #11 on: 17 August 2009, 18:13:51 »
no it wont.... we have played with LOADS of those models. 2k polys, with NO lag. and one of the players who had the slowest computer didnt complain ONCE.
WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

Mark

  • Guest
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #12 on: 18 August 2009, 01:32:48 »
Are you arguing that 2000 polys is not bad?  You're kidding me!

John.d.h

  • Moderator
  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,757
  • I have to go now. My planet needs me.
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #13 on: 18 August 2009, 01:40:36 »
Whether or not it's bad, two thousand polygons is way more than is necessary, so you're causing undue strain on the player's computer.  The original Glest models have nowhere near that many and (no offense) but unless you can show that your models look four times better, there is no reason to have four times the polygons.

Omega

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,167
  • Professional bug writer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #14 on: 18 August 2009, 09:22:46 »
Yiiii!

Trust me, that's way too much poly, no matter how good your model looks. I think you are suffering from a case of YTTWYSIWYGBWYHTMPYGMBOBFSMTASTBOHPMHHSABEDS (You-Think-That-What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get-But-When-You-Have-Too-Much-Poly-You-Get-Massive-Battles-Of-Bullets-Flying-Slow-Motion-That-Aren't-Supposed-To-Be-Because-Of-High-Poly-Modelers-Heavy-Handed-Subsurfing-And-Blender-Eyesight-Defaults-Syndrome) (god, I need a better name for that, try memorizing that, doctors!).

It is a critical, difficult to cure, bacterial caused syndrome that is spread to gamers through evil modeling methods. While little is known about this syndrome, it can cause dizziness, over-confidence, headaches, loss of personal life, lack of appeal to opposite sex, heartbreak, computer crashes, lag, BSOD, carpal tunnel syndrome, gamers cancer, loss of motor control of lower body, partial paralyzing, and in rare cases, death.

It has been linked to causing high blood pressure, diabetes, high sodium levels, gamers cancer, meth addiction, tobacco addiction, cocaine addiction, every-other-drug addiction, poverty, and increased idiot-to-genius ratio.

Symptoms include odd blotches in places you don't want others to see (except at the company corporate party), limbs suddenly going limp and falling off, pimples, black heads, white heads, red heads, pink heads, purple-poka-dotted-and-pink heads, loss of appetite, increase of appettite, compulsive urge to run down streets naked, and incontrollable curses at your grandmother.

It is caused by improper hand eye coordinates before the modeler realizes that glest actually smooths the model, so you don't have to. Before such realization, they are often stricken with creating million+ poly models that look as smooth as day in blender, and smooth as hell in glest. The recklessness combined with the drug addiction causes them to mistake the 000s for decimal places, which lead to a competion of who can get the most 'decimal places' before their computer gives them a BSOD and a kick in the ass. It results in large scale battles turning into blitzing, slow motion, play-by-play, 20 second bullets with models jumping out of their hides (if they have any. If not, it just comes out of the screen and starts pounding the players head upon the keyboard until it explodes in a rumble of green goo, then it's only a matter of time before the world starts adapting lag properties, and commuters will find themself frustrated with trains that stop every twenty seconds to resync (so far, the last one's been going on for 3 days, 21 hours, 1 minute, and 3 seconds as of right now (which is still 2009, BTW).

Cures are very rare, and usually involve a kick in the ass followed by some sort of torture tool (thumbscrews have proven affective). Stretching racks are rarely used except to hold the kicking and screaming druggie in place for their daily waterboarding. The rare non-painful treatment usually involves a miracle from god, and a warning from the devil. More common 'accidental' treatments include computer viruses blowing up houses, plunging of unicorn horns through the heart (if they wish to turn away from the dark side, it is harmless, otherwise, oh well), bricks being tossed at high speed by angry neighbors, and parents kicking your ass.

Speculation from the church has lead to this illness being considered 'evil', and exorcisms have been used. Unfortunately, due to the extreme contagiousness of the illness, it is usually too late. Once the head has dismembered himself and turned into a crab people, it is usually too late.

If afflicted people wander around acting like the undead from 'night of the living dead', then it is recommended by the WHO to keep back ten feet, due to the fact that usually means they have a hunger for brains. If this is the case, the best known solution is a fully loaded shotgun. Be sure to blast entire body to ensure that no hands will turn into crab people.

If you loved one has been inflicted, please call 1-800-CRABPPL. Recommended treatment is a full gauge shotgun to the chest. Please note that such treatments have a chance of being irrivocable. If you think you have been afflicted with YTTWYSIWYGBWYHTMPYGMBOBFSMTASTBOHPMHHSABEDS, then please see your family physicist, and be sure to turn him into a crab person while you are there.



I kept an entire straight face  :-\ when I published it into the medical magazine. ;)

*On a  serious point, the infantry of military has 588 vertices, 612 faces, and only 40.9KiB.
Edit the MegaGlest wiki: http://docs.megaglest.org/

My personal projects: http://github.com/KatrinaHoffert

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #15 on: 18 August 2009, 10:00:12 »
I like your post omgea, it was fun, on a serious note, id like to claficate something.

first off, @ mark, yes im agureing that 2k polys are okay.

now. we can all agree that the lesser polys the more units there can be onscree right?.

for a low end graphics card a higher poly count is badder thats logic.
for a higher end grapich card we can assume that a higher poly count would do less.

in a game moddeler mind it makes sense to do polys AS LOW AS POSSIBLE we can also all agree to that.
however, you need to find a balance between the model and the textures.

i agree that 2k is rather much in compariosn to the normal glest models, but those arnt so good imo either, thier are solid works. but i dont like em. when i release my mod you can try it and if it lags blame for useing too much polys, but i will be aiming the same way blizzard do, as wide a aduince as posible.

also bear in mind that this is ONE building that have that poly count so far. and ONE unit. also ive read a pos somewhere saying that 1,5 K is fine. so i dont see the big problem here.

other that you need to see that subsurf ALSO can have good uses in glest when used with cation.

i say this out from my experince so far.

so tell me, what is YOU experince that makes you think that subsurf and high poly counts is SO bad?

EDIT:on a reread of you rather long post, i saw that glest smotes models, i thought it only was smoothing animations. bu thanks il notice that.

« Last Edit: 18 August 2009, 10:26:43 by Coldfusionstorm »
WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

wciow

  • Behemoth
  • *******
  • Posts: 968
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #16 on: 18 August 2009, 11:32:32 »
Ok, subsurf is B-A-D, do not use it!

Also Glest can easily handle models of 1-2K on modern mid-range hardware (check the dwarves faction to see what i mean!)

Check out my new Goblin faction - https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=9658.0

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #17 on: 18 August 2009, 13:36:45 »
sigh, well, thans for clearing that out, but still.

i want a argument with facts on it before i stop useing subsurf.

not just

its bad!.

it works for what i want it too, a organic faction.

its bad is NOT a arument.
WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

modman

  • Guest
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #18 on: 18 August 2009, 15:04:40 »
Sorry, hate to say it, but saying "it works for my faction" is simply circumstantial evidence, which amounts to nothing.

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #19 on: 18 August 2009, 15:51:42 »
i have no report of lag from my testers "yet", if/when it comes. now i have yet to see a simple good reason to why i shoudnt use it, the only thing i see here is people being afraid of subsurf... ive asked serveral times for facts. yet, no one comes with it.

subsurf works. end of story, it increases polys, yes, but the look comes out just the way i want it.

nuff said.

if you can prove it, il be happy to listen, untill then, il wait untill my testers and devs complain.
WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

gameboy

  • Guest
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #20 on: 18 August 2009, 16:11:24 »
subsurf isn't bad, and many modelers use it but usually not for RTS games.
a reasonable tri count would be 2-2.5k for buildings(of course less is always better), and abt 500-600 tris for units at least its like that with 0 AD.
Most games try to keep the poly count as low as possible and a well done texture, that is the art of making good models for games.
The reason people consider subsurf bad is because it causes a lot of trouble while modeling and exporting, at least thats why i don't use it when making models for my game projects. And also for me a with a 3k+ model onscreen my pc lagged. If u aiming at a wide audience, then u better keep ur models polys as low as possible :)

Coldfusionstorm

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #21 on: 18 August 2009, 16:19:11 »
Thank you gameboy, and i will, i will keep them as low as posible, (for my quality standards ofc). and about the rts that exaclt what im going to try, i still want my models to look good tho :D, and optimizing models is alos a prio.
WiP Game developer.
I do danish translations.
"i break stuff"

laimis350

  • Guest
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #22 on: 4 September 2009, 17:41:56 »
A little off-topic, but how do you count all those faces?  :-\ I'd like to know how many faces my model has so I can adjust if there are too many.
Thanks.  ;)

John.d.h

  • Moderator
  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,757
  • I have to go now. My planet needs me.
    • View Profile
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #23 on: 4 September 2009, 19:50:06 »

In the upper-right corner of the Blender interface, it has "FA" for number of faces, along with vertices, objects, and layers.

Mark

  • Guest
Re: Problem with exporting model.
« Reply #24 on: 5 September 2009, 02:30:15 »
Seeing that you know blender well, John.d.h, (Im a total noob), do you know of any way to combine 2 meshes?  That has become a serious problem for me sometimes.

 

anything