Frozen Winter - map

[standizzle]

http://www.filefront.com/14449469/Frozen%20Winter.gbm

couldnt sleep. spent like 3-4 hours playing/editing a map that i somewhat eventually liked.

4 corner concept. so can be 4 players. each starting zone has 7 gold veins, and 3-4 stone veins. near by, there is 2 gold veins, and each corner has a hub of gold/stone inbetween them and another corner. made for some interesting battles with the computer fighting for resources while i was test running it.

all the starting zones are somewhat walled off, or elevated, or de-elevated to some degree to funnel enemies that are trying to pwn your base(which either helps, or doesn't ::shrug:, and the middle is all elevated/de-elevated with heavy trees, veins, stones, etc... for no reason. the center is just a massive battleground really. shouldnt be trying to mine there i just put stuff there for a distraction, and for ground troops to have to run around them.

due to name, highly suggested you use any winter theme for the map. (winter beta, winter forest, winter) it just makes it look alot better, and i had it in mind when designing the layout and name)

you should find that near by 2 gold vien and set up a secondary camp before you go all out for the hubs, unless you quickly make beast groupings of guys early. i got lit up by the computer a couple of times not paying attention/smoking cigs/sportscenter.

can tell me it sucks if you really think that way, or if you find it unbalanced at all... really tried to make it balanced.. first map and half asleep.. laugh now cry later.

/nod
-s.

[standizzle]

sorry about the no pic's. but each corner is unique, and i didnt feel like taking 4-8 screenshots. ; /

[assassin]

To take pic of map, just use GAE and set the INI so that it will render when zoomed WAY out. Then do so!

A good map, but too big for my tastes...  :'(

[standizzle]

changed ini. no result. printscreen dont work? or is there a specific way to do it? gunna sleep regardless ; /

[assassin]

Are you using GAE?

[standizzle]

yes.

[Omega]

You MUST set max camera distance and max render distance in the INI. Then turn photomode on. Now zoom out and use 'e'.

[standizzle]

aye. acknowlge'n(O_o) this post now. but im drunk just in from bar. i will try to remember..

busy working on new map "riverworks". another 4 person map "RiverWorks"

then i will attempt scenario's..

map editor is very good. (thumbs up). but i need to know what all the "custom" ' s are.

the other editor needs work(faction/. i need C++ experiance. i only know VB up to about lv 5-6. so i couldnt help programing on that end unless i reallly put some time into looking at the program. which.... is asking alot fosr omeone not getting paid    )

i need to know how to do factions without the art.

BUT  !!   if someone could PM on that. like a "real" tutorial. top to bottom. i would attempt it... but until then... cuz i could do alot of conceptual stuff. that might boost population to this game.

also still need to know how the "take your screen.... copy it.. and post it on this site" is....

until then. probably no on on here will take me seriously.....

but.

you should..

i've mod'd for alot of games...

talk to me

-s.

[standizzle]

again changed the ini.... pressed E. and still nothing is paste'able in Paint. ive basically tried everything i can think of... and im still getting no where in this subject.

can you just not post it in ms paint? do i need to use another program?

; /

its going to suck if i make a bunch of maps and i cannot post pictures....

[-Archmage-]

Don't use paint, use GIMP, Photoshop........other good ones.

[John.d.h]

As I recall, 'e' saves the screenshot in your Glest_x.x.x/screens/ directory as a tga file.

[standizzle]

Don't use paint, use GIMP, Photoshop........other good ones.

downloaded gimp.

when i get back from the bar... i might try it out.

[Trappin]

I'll critique the map  .

The map is technically sound, it doesn't trap AI NPC's at the resource node points or anywhere on the map, so that's good. The map needs visual improvements in a number of ways.

Increase elevation differences between hills and valleys. It simply looks better when the topography varies - especially on snow surfaces where elevation changes appear less than what they really are due to the visual nature of solid white surface textures.

Use a theme or rule when applying surface texture's and object types.

*Here's what I mean, in film making the director of photography will use shooting rules, one example of this everyone will recognize is the combat scene at the start of Saving Private Ryan. The combat sequence shooting rules demand that the camera film the scene from the perspective of below a man's waist - the average camera height was never over 3.0 feet/0.8m high.

Why do I mention this?

Apply map making rules to all maps you design. The rules can vary between maps but never vary within the same map. Or try to not break the map rule often on the same map - objects and surface types are limited thus minor rule adjustments will be necessary.

I applied surface and height rules to the Frozen Winter Map - none of the object types have been moved, changed or deleted.

Here is the GlestMaps version http://glestmaps.wikia.com/wiki/Glest_Maps#Yukon_Rush

Rules for the standizzle map: Snow surface texture only extends 1 square below hills. Snowy-green grass texture only on valley floor. Increase height elevation where clusters of trees are placed AND center portion of the map.

This is how I make maps and I'm not telling you the only way to design a good map is my way . My maps tend to be very conventional BUT I've never really seen unconventional Glest maps that weren't designed for pure multiplayer or scenarios use. Unconventional maps tend to confuse the AI and NPC's end up stuck on walls or the edge of lakes, objects and nodes.

Good luck.

[wciow]

Good critique Trappin.

We need more of this sort of in-depth discussion around here.

[standizzle]

I'll critique the map  .

thank you. ill check it out later.

figured out SS's fyi so ill probably do that too.

and like i said. half asleep. and still learning....

i basically started playing a week ago, and 5 days ago i started trying this map stuff. i just got back from a weekend vaca at the beach... so ill probably get into all this stuff later tonight.
i agree the middle is a littler unconventional... and the hieghts are all messed up. never said it was perfect.

but ty.

-s.

[modman]

Agreed, wciow.  Trappin, maybe some of those pointers could be elaborated on, and possibly put into a tutorial?  That would be great.

[Trappin]

Thanks, I'll give it some thought.

Glest Map Design

http://glestmaps.wikia.com/wiki/Glest_Map_Design

[standizzle]

hey trap. just checked out your re'mappin.

not too bad, and it was actually something similar to what i was looking to do. but i didnt completely understand the hieght's completely... and i thought i HAD to put grass down. but looking at your mapping i have a better understanding of that, and what you mean by convential mapping.

i still need to know what all the custom resources are, custom objects....etc.

until i do... im just afraid im not use'n everything i can to make a map tip top.


again. figured out screen shots. once i get around to it ill throw out a couple for you guys from trap's new model of it. ill play around with it a tiny bit, maybe try to make the middle a little more conventional... but i still want it to be a ses-pool of constant battles from all 4 corners. as trap could probably tell you... the emphasis is really on controlling the sides of the map to get resources and cut off your enemies ability to make their army bigger/faster.

but i really appreciate the thoughts/actions bro. you put a lot in perspective for me that i was missing.
i know its not easy lookin at a "newb" mod'er to a game, and trying to explain all the simple stuff. but like i said... im only like 3 days into this stuff... and i do have experiance mod'n. its just a matter of time before i figure it all out. so thanks alot.

i also figured out to some extent scenerio's. so ill probably set up a scenario with frozen winter, or two... 

all depending on how much time i put into stuff tonight.

still working on river works... but with the re'mapp'n of FW, im going to have to scrap it. and redo it. which is totally fine with me. also.. probably going to write out some tech's. i have no ability to make the models or art or anything... but im going to write out the concepts and flow chart for a couple of my ideas from my "military" idea. and probably redo a magic tech to my own like'n and i thought of a cool heaven/hell (angels vs demons) concept and flow chart before i slept last night.

but.. when i get around to SS's, and "revamping" the middle of frozen winter... i will Edit my first post and re-link the download for you guys.

for now you guys can still take a look and let me know what you think. any suggestions... or any explainations of the custom objects would wtf pwn

-s.

[Omega]

Try the GG's map maker page: glest.110mb.com/maps.php. Can't remember if I put it.

If not, try to make a test map with EVERY resource. I know a few by heart, such as C4 is big stone, and stuff... Looking at the tileset XMLs can be handy too, if you know XML.

Also worthy to note that EVERY TILESET IS NOT THE SAME! They are CUSTOM because they may (though usually don't) vary between tilesets.

[kazakore]

Try the GG's map maker page: glest.110mb.com/maps.php. Can't remember if I put it.

I still don't see images on this page. Am I the only one?

[Trappin]

Conventional Glest maps are square shaped with player start positions equidistantly located in each of the four corners. Conflict is an unconventional 4 player map by that definition. Omega's map guide is a good starting point and anything beyond that would require serious time investment. An advanced map guide would need to presume a certain level of glest mapping knowledge or else it devolves into a full-blown technical paper.

There just aren't enough people making maps to justify the work required for an advanced map guide. Most map makers show up for a few weeks, pump out a few maps, and then disappear forever.

[standizzle]

There just aren't enough people making maps to justify the work required for an advanced map guide. Most map makers show up for a few weeks, pump out a few maps, and then disappear forever.

it might be because the tools already made and distributed are not completed. are not really explained. and as far as i can tell... you need more program knowledge than ive ever seen to mod a game in this game. (art editor, imagine editor, model editor, art and model viewers, xml, c++ although its optional for the most part, sometimes not..., map editor, sounds, animations... etc) .... and if you cant do one or two(god help if its more) of these things... you have to hook up with someone on the forum... which... ya. most likely not going to happen.

its alot for even the highly interested people.... to mod with. esp when some of the tools made to help, really dont work or have any explaination of things, or are simply unfinished.

not talkin smack, just lay'n out what ive seen so far.

i have written up 5 different Techs. with probably over 20 scenario's. and drew up(not made) probably 10-15 maps.

will they ever...ever get done? not unless i get people to help me.
will i probably disappear after 2 weeks of no one caring/helping? yes.

think of it that way

[standizzle]

Try the GG's map maker page: glest.110mb.com/maps.php. Can't remember if I put it.

If not, try to make a test map with EVERY resource. I know a few by heart, such as C4 is big stone, and stuff... Looking at the tileset XMLs can be handy too, if you know XML.

Also worthy to note that EVERY TILESET IS NOT THE SAME! They are CUSTOM because they may (though usually don't) vary between tilesets.

ya.. cuz i want to spend 2-4 hours making 10-15 maps and checking them constantly... with nothing but rows of random resources... and objects,  (some that are invisible) etc, to see what they are and do.

seriously..

when all it takes. is someone with the knowledge to post it, (which takes all of 10-20 minutes). write a readme. or better yet... the author of the program to finish his program with a actual help option instead of just his name and rightclick=this and leftclick=that. (ive programmed visual basic for years... its not that difficult.. and would probably take a hour at most ... although its c++ which is a tad diff so maybe what. 2 hours at most?)

and your "guide" that you linked has no pictures. and touches nothing on the 20-40 custom objects there are in the program.

do i KNOW xml... no. but i can recreate XML off a pre-existing model, and edit it to my like'n based on other examples. so, its probably not the best idea for me to spend even more time staring at code i only partially understand.

[Omega]

Hmm, that's no good. I blame my loss of images on hackers, though It's probably my fault.

I guess it's time to improve that guide in my next release. I'll add the custom object descriptions, though you are exagerating on 20-40... There is 5 custom objects. It says that for resources, though only custom resources 1 and 2 are used (gold and stone). There is 10 objects, five which are named, and five 'custom' ones.

Only one custom object is invisible (5). It is a non-walkable 'none' object, and is meant to limit movement, such as around large stones or on cliffs.

I'll help you though, as I got some spare time:

Custom 1=Grass
Custom 2=Hanged/Impaled
Custom 3=Statues
Custom 4=Big Stone
Custom 5=Non-walkable 'none' object

Note this is for the dark forest tileset, and should be similar for the winter forest, if not the same. Other tilesets may vary, but for the most part, they are fairly similar, at least in bias.

I COULD add a help thing to the program, but I can't compile!

*If any of you guys can compile, I'll give you a source with help code in it.

[Trappin]

Evergreen happens to be my favorite forest-type tileset followed by Scrub Land and Volcanic. They are very different from one another so I make an object and surface texture legend at the bottom of new maps and use that as a reference until it becomes second-nature. The process of adding a few thousand differently colored pixels to a green colored notepad is a tedious, labor intensive process.