OT: Omega's game "End of The World"

[John.d.h]

It doesn't.  That's why it's "OT" for off-topic.

[Hectate]

What dose this half to do with glest?

Doh! John beat me to it! lol

[Hectate]

Just finished the demo myself actually.

Okay, I just finished running through the game.  The hermit cave scene was overall pretty well done, but I felt like the dialogue in the fight was a little verbose...

I pretty well agree with this. I actually lost a party member during this battle and he's still standing there telling me about statuses and etc. And then the battle is over and I find out he can HEAL MY PEOPLE on a whim. Gee, a little help here? Haha
Maybe you could save some of the information (like status effects, etc) for later. Put it in a book on the governor's bookshelf or on the table. Have an experienced adventurer in the pub tell you, etc. There are many options. John's comment about talking to him afterward would be good too. Even after finding the prince he was still spouting "there's a cave to the northeast!", lol.

The waterfall cave was a huge improvement from last time.  I especially like the timer.  It added a much bigger sense of urgency than there was before.  Also, adding more variety to the tiles was a big plus.

I also agree about the cave. The layout was far superior. The timer really helps the player while simultaneously pushing him on. So do the wandering monsters. You know why? Because I almost ran out of time because of battles! With 3 battles (I skipped the last two) and one wrong turn it took me down to almost 10 seconds to reach the exit.  One note is that the timer still runs even while the battle screens are loading and unloading - or even when it's telling you about the gold and XP, etc.
I was going to save it and then see what the game did when I didn't get out, but it wouldn't let me save while the timer was running down.

Speaking of maps, it might be helpful to have some kind of map feature to keep track of where you've been and how to get there.

I disagree. That's really the player's responsibility in this kind of game. I think Auto-mapping is overused in many games - but maybe that's because I had to draw my own when playing text adventures like Zork and Planetfall. In either case, if the player doesn't have time to sketch a quick map - the characters wouldn't either (not even talking about if they have ink and paper). The player gets the bonus of an overhead view anyway, even if it's limited. At least the screen in the cave doesn't have a small "spotlight" type circle around the player while everything else is fog-of-war blacked out. If that happened I'd need 10 minutes to find my way out!

In short, a few notes:
The governor was never at home, even after escaping the cave. Game ended there for me (wandered around just to be sure).
The hermit was still intent on telling me where the prince was, even though I just left him. (could entering that cave have broken the governor's cutscene?)
The critter attacking the hermit used both ice AND fire attacks on me - I was surprised when the fire attack came from an ice creature.
The mutation's hint was appreciated. The mutants hit hard and having a head start on their weakness is good.
At the beginning, the characters already knew the prince went to the waterfall cave (even if they didn't know WHERE it was). Was that deliberate?
The additional potions were greatly appreciated. Ether in particular.
If the prince is destroying the kingdom, wouldn't it make sense for the village to be attacked also? Maybe he overlooked it, but seeing as the kingdom appears to be made of only two population centers (and one of them is no more than 2 house, a shed, a store, a pub, an inn, and a well - more of a rest stop really) I think he would know about it... Maybe a cutscene and battle is in order at some point?

Thanks again I had fun!

[John.d.h]

And then the battle is over and I find out he can HEAL MY PEOPLE on a whim. Gee, a little help here? Haha

Heh... I hadn't even thought of that, but that's a good point.

I think Auto-mapping is overused in many games - but maybe that's because I had to draw my own when playing text adventures like Zork and Planetfall. In either case, if the player doesn't have time to sketch a quick map - the characters wouldn't either (not even talking about if they have ink and paper). The player gets the bonus of an overhead view anyway, even if it's limited. At least the screen in the cave doesn't have a small "spotlight" type circle around the player while everything else is fog-of-war blacked out. If that happened I'd need 10 minutes to find my way out!

Be that as it may, with this game spanning three continents, wandering around aimlessly trying to find your way is going to get tiresome pretty fast, I think.  Even if it's not a traditional auto-map with a big "you are here" dot (I agree that those are a little ridiculous unless the characters have a GPS ), some kind of map is going to be very helpful, maybe even necessary.  Something that just shows the general layout of the landscape so you can look around and find your bearings.  "Okay, I'm a little south of the castle, so that means the lake is over to the east somewhere" kind of thing.  I don't think there should be maps for the dungeon areas, but the overworld should have them, I think.  Maybe you could even have to buy the map from wandering merchants, or find them along the way, but I believe some kind of map is going to be called for.

The governor was never at home, even after escaping the cave. Game ended there for me (wandered around just to be sure).
The hermit was still intent on telling me where the prince was, even though I just left him. (could entering that cave have broken the governor's cutscene?)

Same thing happened for me.

[Omega]

Ok, reply time! Firstly, let's go over caught bugs.

1. The governor was never at home, even after escaping the cave. Game ended there for me (wandered around just to be sure).
2. The hermit was still intent on telling me where the prince was, even though I just left him. (could entering that cave have broken the governor's cutscene?)
3. The critter attacking the hermit used both ice AND fire attacks on me - I was surprised when the fire attack came from an ice creature.
4. At the beginning, the characters already knew the prince went to the waterfall cave (even if they didn't know WHERE it was). Was that deliberate?
5. If the prince is destroying the kingdom, wouldn't it make sense for the village to be attacked also? Maybe he overlooked it, but seeing as the kingdom appears to be made of only two population centers (and one of them is no more than 2 house, a shed, a store, a pub, an inn, and a well - more of a rest stop really) I think he would know about it... Maybe a cutscene and battle is in order at some point?

1. Hmm, I'll review that. I don't think I actually properly tested the governor's house, so it's most likely a missing switch in the prince cutscene.
2. Firstly, the hermit's cave couldn't possibly break the governor's house (see #1), I guess I'll change his dialogue so that depending on when you talk to him, he'll speak differently. I guess I'll also give the ability to ask more questions to him.
3. That's a BAD bug... and totally my fault. Fixed for the next version now.
4. Hmm? I need more info on this pronto please! I though I removed all mentionings of the waterfall cave until the party learned of it, but now I see I must have been mistaken. Please do tell me where it was mentioned!
5. Actually, the prince only wanted to destroy his father, but instead simply took it out on the whole kingdom. That's ironically his downfall, as it causes the party to retaliate, and will lead to his eventual demise (or will it?).

@Maps: Firstly, there are NO maps of the dungeons at all, though there may be some barebones descriptions that may give hints of locations. For the world map, you don't really need one that much. HOWEVER, the final release (maybe in a year or so) will include a strategy guide that has EXCLUSIVE top down photos, info, secrets, and maps that could only come from the developer, meant primarily for those who have trouble. I'm no amateur at that, but naturally, it won't be out until the final release, since things may (and probably will, especially dialogue) change. The biggest change as the game continues will be what the NPCs say when you talk to them. What makes sense when you first talk to them probably won't at the end of the game.

At least the screen in the cave doesn't have a small "spotlight" type circle around the player while everything else is fog-of-war blacked out. If that happened I'd need 10 minutes to find my way out!

Rest assured I'll probably never do that. Why? Because I hate it very much myself, and if I can't find it fun to play, how will anyone else?

I was going to save it and then see what the game did when I didn't get out, but it wouldn't let me save while the timer was running down.

Saving is purposely disabled during the timer, or else all the monsters respawn and other possible bugs may occur (never tested well). You're supposed to be in a hurry, not taking your time to save! The trick of course, is to just run like hell, trying to avoid the monsters. I originally started with a 3.5 min timer, but cut it down to 2 minutes because I made it out as fast as 20 seconds three times in a row with no battles, and 1.5 minutes with three battles (which I considered the upper limit). When time runs out, it's simply game over. The screen will fade to the game over screen, but nothing special.

If there's an ancient civilization there, maybe they once inhabited more of the world, and left behind some goodies.  I was thinking something along this when I suggested having a way to heal before the boss battle.  Maybe the ancients left behind some ruins in some of these old caves, and a few of them have still-functional magic healing wells.

You're supposed to yell SPOILER ALERT before saying stuff like that! The ancients are a fundalmental part of the game, and CRUCIAL for some dramatic plot events.

SPOILER ALERT TIME! Here's the current world map, labeled and all! Note that is may be a spoiler since it shows many locations you do not reach until far in gameplay, and seeing those locations may make it possible to guess storyline plots that you can't normally (note that not everything is used in the main storyline. There's quite a lot of optional towns and dungeons).
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3858/worldmapw.jpg

[John.d.h]

Nice world map.  The only suggestion I would make is to mess with some of the lines on the bottom continent.  Straight lines don't really happen in natural geography.  Things are naturally more jagged and irregular, so that part that juts out from the bottom looks very artificial.

Edit: Same goes for the big lake with the shipwreck in it (but I suppose that might be intentional) and the mountain ridge directly south of it.

[Omega]

Jrublin Island is meant to be very small. Almost circular infact, but it had to have at least a tad bit of walking room...

As for the southern continent, which straight parts are you referring to? There's the the peninsula to the south east that needs to be, well, peninsula-like. The bottom is slightly curved, but perhaps that's what you're referring to?

[John.d.h]

Maybe this will help illustrate what I mean:

Click me.

I drew some red lines to point out long unnaturally straight lines.  Obviously you're dealing with pretty big tiles so some straight lines are inevitable, but anything longer than about five or six tiles is going to look strange and artificial.

This is what a peninsula looks like.  Not really any straight lines, and it is much wider at some parts than others.

[Omega]

Updates: Behind the scenes, a lot has been done. I have finished the next dungeon and next town, as well as added the ship. NPC dialogue is much more complexe, and the battle system is once again balanced out a bit. I'll try to release when I get the time, but that means after the break, because this internet is garbage.

[ElimiNator]

Did you make the whole game your self? All the code bitmaps scrips and all?

[Omega]

The graphics are from the creators RTP, and I won't add custom until I have completed all the mapping, since I have VERY limited custom tiles available (like 256x512 or something). The creator is a ruby scripting engine which runs the games ruby scripts, which are default with some modifications. Expect a lot more modifications to things like the damage formula (still brainstorming on one).

I was going to release today, but forgot to copy to my flash drive... 

[Omega]

DPing for obvious reasons. Here's the latest:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ee2mamztjnz

Please note that you should not enter the shipwreck cove because it is incomplete and you will be unable to exit or continue. Up to that point, all is good.

Please report all and any bugs, as testing is very light (one man ain't much of a testing team, that's what you're for!). Since the last release, there is two more towns, one more dungeon, a lot of monsters, a world map, and more. May be a lot of bugs at times, please report.

[ultifd]

Hey Omega, nice game. I tried it...but like a month or two ago.   
You should post it on one a free game ish site...
I mean there are a lot... 
Good Luck.

[Omega]

No plans to post on a diff site yet. I am considering whether to continue in this method or try and expand my c++ knowledge and make it from code. I'm currently suffering from extreme limitations... Not to mention the airship doesn't work well and the flat edges of the world map look... you know.

Which ever I choose, I still have to wait until I get a new computer, mine is going very bad...

[ultifd]

No plans to post on a diff site yet. I am considering whether to continue in this method or try and expand my c++ knowledge and make it from code. I'm currently suffering from extreme limitations... Not to mention the airship doesn't work well and the flat edges of the world map look... you know.

Which ever I choose, I still have to wait until I get a new computer, mine is going very bad...

I see.
You still haven't got a new one yet?  Isn't... ... enougth $$$ for a nice... 

[Teh_Meck]

just a quick question Omega; why are you trying to make an RPG in an RTS game?  imean, a much better idea would be to use the source engine atleast... :dissappointed:

[ultifd]

just a quick question Omega; why are you trying to make an RPG in an RTS game?  imean, a much better idea would be to use the source engine atleast... :dissappointed:

This is not based on Glest, which this is why this is in the off topic section... 

[Omega]

just a quick question Omega; why are you trying to make an RPG in an RTS game?  imean, a much better idea would be to use the source engine atleast... :dissappointed:

Tracking IP... Of course. Dude, I went over you with this in real life. It's not practical for my game. it's a proprietary license too.

[sand_drew]

Omega, most of your more recent download links are broken.

The file has been deleted or is invalid, apparently. 

[Omega]

Ah, it's final, I am going to switch to a new engine. I haven't decided on the engine in particular yet, but it really only needs to handle 2D graphics (open to suggestions). RPGMaker was WAY too limited, so that's the main reason for this moving to a new style. Of course, the expected release has to be realistic, so... 10 years?

No joke there. I have much planned, and am currently well into the planning stage, rewritting mathmatic formulas and regoing over the story DRASTICALLY.

A quick example of story changes is how I'm SCRAPPING the Hermit's cave, and instead the player starts with Capa in the party and is actually in the monster ravaged castle. He slowly teams up with the members of the party, learning more of their stories while providing battle orpitunities to teach the basics. The bottom line: better story, better gameplay, more fun!

Of course, this topic will become pretty inactive, since most work cannot be tested for a while, especially since I will wait until I have a new laptop to start the programming, and of course, I still must expand my knowledge (drastically).

[-Archmage-]

Why not try a little 3D, you can always ask me for some animation.
A 3D RPG would be 10 times better than gameboy(not talking about you gAMeboy) style, sure it would be a lot of modeling, but I think it would be cool, and then seriously, you could get famous!

[sand_drew]

Why not try a little 3D, you can always ask me for some animation.
A 3D RPG would be 10 times better than gameboy(not talking about you gAMeboy) style, sure it would be a lot of modeling, but I think it would be cool, and then seriously, you could get famous!

3D is not neccesarily better than 2D, again, like has been previously stated many great games, both present and past are 2D or only semi-3D but operate on 2D.

2D does not make a game bad, childish or otherwise not worth your notice.

I could list plenty of great 2D games right here, but I can't be bothered. If you like 3D games more than 2D, fine, but don't try to claim that you have to make a 3D game to be a real game developer.

[-Archmage-]

You really assume a lot about what I like, I'm just stating that make the same game with 2D graphics, then make the exact same game with 3D graphics people will go for the 3D version more.

I was just offering an idea........

[sand_drew]

You really assume a lot about what I like, I'm just stating that make the same game with 2D graphics, then make the exact same game with 3D graphics people will go for the 3D version more.

I was just offering an idea........

I'm not assuming anything, I'm basing everything I say, off of what you say.

And you're assuming that because you prefer 3D over 2D, and as you have made quite clear through what you have said, that 3D is superior to 2D, everyone shares that opinion.

[-Archmage-]

Assuming?
No, actually it's simple, just watch the reactions around you, notice different games popularity.
All my friends play video games, and I see a pattern for what they like, 2D games are cool sometimes, but 3D allows you to do more, and my friends and I usually enjoy 3D games a lot more.

This is starting to get off-topic......if we can't end this off soon, then I'll split it into another debate topic, but I'd hate to do that because I want to stay out of debates a bit...


The point of my first post about 3D, was to convey an idea, if I wanted to make a statement about how 3D is better than 2D I would've done so in a new topic.

Besides, we're talking about 2D, but I mean the level of detail of the 2D in Omegas game, could be easily surpassed by 3D graphics, but of course, Omega's making the game with a different game making program, so maybe the graphics will be better.