Religous Debates

[John.d.h]

My point is that the only reason to put it as your signature is to piss people off.  It's like pointing out that Muhammed was a pedophile; it may be true but it's not a constructive argument.  I'd counter some of the points in the quote, but my motivation tank is running on 'E' right now.

[Gabbe]

My point is that the only reason to put it as your signature is to piss people off.

Or to enlighten people and make them read the bible entirely before going christian.

It's like pointing out that Muhammed was a pedophile; it may be true but it's not a constructive argument.

I know that Jesus called all the childrens to sit on his ****.... i read it somewere but it is a norwegian magazine and i can`t find it, so sorry, i can`t backup here. Not constructive, but...enligtnening if modman can back it up.

I'd counter some of the points in the quote, but my motivation tank is running on 'E' right now.

Does that mean your motivation is high or low? 

[xxcatmysteryxx]

I'd counter some of the points in the quote, but my motivation tank is running on 'E' right now.

Does that mean your motivation is high or low? 

E for empty meaning it's low

Ancient human society was male-dominated, and so it would not have served the writers of Genesis well to make women more powerful, because this would make them lose power.  If y'all haven't figured it out already, religion is all about power.

I figured it out thats why I don't like Religion (ha i don't even know how to spell it I had to look at the word)

And the really good question: why is He a "He" and not a "She"?!

God created man in his own image. Eve was made from his rib. Oh well, sorry feminists...

Yeah "WE" created man from our image thats why we don't know if he exist or not or he doesn't have to be a human it could as well be something else like umm a animal like a ...  very smart monkey like the ones in Planet of the Apes

[@kukac@]

If he is omnipotent, then he can hide in any way. A flying spaghetti monster. A hyper-intelligent shade of the blue colour. It's not that he created man for his own shape, but man created (found out) god for their own shape. The Hellenistic Greeks invention was "humans made gods, that's why every nation has it's own". Hmm, these damned Greeks

[John.d.h]

A lot of people interpret the Bible as being sexist, but I disagree.  Just because women and men are put in different roles in the Bible doesn't mean that one is superior or more important than the other.  If the man is the head of the household, then the woman is the heart.  The man does what he does (hunting, earning a wage, whatever) to provide for his wife so she can do what she does (cooking, raising children, etc.), but the man depends just as much on his wife for care and support as she depends on him.  I think we've taken what is supposed to be a partnership, and turned it into a competition.  Personally, I think we need more women who are willing to stay home instead of working, and that's not because they're less capable or anything (my mom has worked her ass off since I was a little kid), but rather because we need to take motherhood seriously.  Mothers are there to teach children to be valuable members of society, to teach them morals, ethics, and important life lessons.  Ask any psychologist about the importance of having a good relationship with your mother, and look at the statistics about how many people in prison come from broken homes where their fathers left and their mothers had to work all the time.  The fact that we say the woman's role is lower than the man's just shows how little we value motherhood.

[Gabbe]

A lot of people interpret the Bible as being sexist, but I disagree.  Just because women and men are put in different roles in the Bible doesn't mean that one is superior or more important than the other.  If the man is the head of the household, then the woman is the heart.  The man does what he does (hunting, earning a wage, whatever) to provide for his wife so she can do what she does (cooking, raising children, etc.), but the man depends just as much on his wife for care and support as she depends on him.  I think we've taken what is supposed to be a partnership, and turned it into a competition.  Personally, I think we need more women who are willing to stay home instead of working, and that's not because they're less capable or anything (my mom has worked her ass off since I was a little kid), but rather because we need to take motherhood seriously.  Mothers are there to teach children to be valuable members of society, to teach them morals, ethics, and important life lessons.  Ask any psychologist about the importance of having a good relationship with your mother, and look at the statistics about how many people in prison come from broken homes where their fathers left and their mothers had to work all the time.  The fact that we say the woman's role is lower than the man's just shows how little we value motherhood.

Men and woman are different, and the bible is...sexist, whatever that means if im correct, dividing men and women... that is because males were/is more fit for hard work plain because are genes makes them/us stronger that is how it is and your correct that women are more fit for working at home, but they should still have the freediom to choose, and the bible do not give them that.

[xxcatmysteryxx]

Im not sure what to say since I am a female. I just think women should have the same oportunities as men......

[Gabbe]

Im not sure what to say since I am a female. I just think women should have the same oportunities as men......

Exactely what i said, but the bible gives you no choice to choose what you want.

[John.d.h]

It would be sexist if it said one sex was better than the other, but all it does is say that they're different.  It's pretty obvious that men and women are different, and they're naturally good at different things.  Women are equipped with things like mammary glands, all of the organs needed during pregnancy, and brain chemistry that's more prone for social interaction and makes them better at sending and receiving nonverbal communication, which are all the things needed to be excellent nurturers and caregivers, whereas men are on average bigger, stronger, faster, and have brains that are good at spacial differentiation (i.e. spotting prey and aiming better) and a better direction sense, which are all the things you need to be a good hunter, warrior, or manual laborer.

From a Biblical perspective, a man doesn't get to stay home and take care of the kids any more than a woman gets to go out and fight wars.  Each has their own role, and they're meant to stick to it because it's what they're best at.  I'm not saying that people shouldn't have choices.  I think everybody should have their own choice as to their own occupation.  I just think that motherhood is in no way a lesser role than a paying career, but people see it that way and that's why they think the Bible is sexist.  On top of that, women have a ton of important roles in the Bible, including typically masculine roles.  Let's use Deborah as an example.  She straight-up kicked some Canaanite ass.

[Gabbe]

It would be sexist if it said one sex was better than the other, but all it does is say that they're different.  It's pretty obvious that men and women are different, and they're naturally good at different things.  Women are equipped with things like mammary glands, all of the organs needed during pregnancy, and brain chemistry that's more prone for social interaction and makes them better at sending and receiving nonverbal communication, which are all the things needed to be excellent nurturers and caregivers, whereas men are on average bigger, stronger, faster, and have brains that are good at spacial differentiation (i.e. spotting prey and aiming better) and a better direction sense, which are all the things you need to be a good hunter, warrior, or manual laborer.

From a Biblical perspective, a man doesn't get to stay home and take care of the kids any more than a woman gets to go out and fight wars.  Each has their own role, and they're meant to stick to it because it's what they're best at.  I'm not saying that people shouldn't have choices.  I think everybody should have their own choice as to their own occupation.  I just think that motherhood is in no way a lesser role than a paying career, but people see it that way and that's why they think the Bible is sexist.  On top of that, women have a ton of important roles in the Bible, including typically masculine roles.  Let's use Deborah as an example.  She straight-up kicked some Canaanite ass.

You convinced me, until i get to read the bible one more tiem to find a counter argument.

[John.d.h]

You convinced me, until i get to read the bible one more tiem to find a counter argument.

I like that about you, Gabriel.  You're actually willing to consider other points of view, instead of the typical, "I don't have an answer for that just yet, BUT I'M SURE YOU'RE STILL WRONG!" kind of response we see around here.

[xxcatmysteryxx]

You convinced me, until i get to read the bible one more tiem to find a counter argument.

I like that about you, Gabriel.  You're actually willing to consider other points of view, instead of the typical, "I don't have an answer for that just yet, BUT I'M SURE YOU'RE STILL WRONG!" kind of response we see around here.

Sound Good I agree to that and I never/will read the bible so I wouldn't know whats right or wrong but sounds good to me!

[Gabbe]

You convinced me, until i get to read the bible one more tiem to find a counter argument.

I like that about you, Gabriel.  You're actually willing to consider other points of view, instead of the typical, "I don't have an answer for that just yet, BUT I'M SURE YOU'RE STILL WRONG!" kind of response we see around here.

Fun and i appreciate that

You convinced me, until i get to read the bible one more tiem to find a counter argument.

I like that about you, Gabriel.  You're actually willing to consider other points of view, instead of the typical, "I don't have an answer for that just yet, BUT I'M SURE YOU'RE STILL WRONG!" kind of response we see around here.

Sound Good I agree to that and I never/will read the bible so I wouldn't know whats right or wrong but sounds good to me!

Are you lazy?  then i`ll read it for you lolz 

[xxcatmysteryxx]

Are you lazy?   then i`ll read it for you lolz  

 
Lol Im not lazy I just don't see any point in reading it anyways theres just so many bibles out there and if i don't have a religion then i see no point (wow im repeating myself alot)

[Gabbe]

Are you lazy?  then i`ll read it for you lolz 

 
Lol Im not lazy I just don't see any point in reading it anyways theres just so many bibles out there and if i don't have a religion then i see no point (wow im repeating myself alot)

There is many "holy books" out there, but the most sold/used is the bible, and you really should read it, then make up your mind if it is worth belive in, i consider the truth way more important than "maybe" eternal life as there is no real proof for eternal life, and the bible tells you how you should live and if you live that way you will get eternal life if not, then you will perish in hell or just die, it depends on how you understand the bible, and there is one more version were you will no matter reach heaven. Are there any christians out there willing to debate with me?

[John.d.h]

you really should read it, then make up your mind if it is worth belive in, i consider the truth way more important than "maybe"

I'm inclined to agree that it's better to actually check it out and see if it's something worth believing, rather than just dismissing it without knowing what was in it, but it is a lot of reading, and some of it is very drawn-out.  The entire book of Numbers is basically... well... counting things.  In fact, it seems to me like most of the Old Testament (i.e. the stuff that happens before Jesus) is more of a history lesson than a spiritual one.  I think your best bet, if you wanted to get a good idea of what Christianity is all about, would be to read the gospel of John and the book of Exodus.  There are some more modern translations that are much easier to read, like NIV or "The Message", rather than wading through the "thee"s and "hitherto"s.

Are there any christians out there willing to debate with me?

Hmm... I'm not quite sure how to answer that, honestly.  I used to consider myself a Christian without any hesitation, but now I'm not sure what to call myself.  I mean, I think the Bible has a lot of really good and worthwhile stuff in it, but I just don't know how much of it I actually believe.  I guess you could say I'm half-Christian and half-agnostic because I just don't know anymore.

[Gabbe]

I mean, I think the Bible has a lot of really good and worthwhile stuff in it, but I just don't know how much of it I actually believe.

I can belive much stuff in the bible too, but some of it is very foggy, and with using some logic you can see what really happened.

Like this:



Video Description:

Thunderf00t  —  March 26, 2010  — If you actually read how Moses (the important guy who god spoke face to face with, and the guy who got the 10 commandments off of God) describes 'God' in the bible, it's basically the exact description of a volcano.

Seeing as Moses is held to be a prophet in all three of the big monotheistic religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism), is it possible that the 'God' of all three of these religions was actually nothing more than a volcano?

Is it not more likely that a bunch of desert nomads come witness a volcano, and seeing as they have never seen one before they think its 'God'. One of their number is crazy enough to go up onto the volcano, where he sees all sorts of volcanic stuff that he mis-interprets as god, and seeing as he's obviously a bit crazy anyways (y'know, how many sane people would go up onto an erupting volcano?) he has a bunch of 'revelations from God' on the mountain. When he gets down, not only does this impress the hell out of the nomads, but he tells them that he spoke to 'God' in the fire and smoke.

Moses (and co.) describing 'God' as a volcano:
Exodus 13:21
And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

Exodus 14:24
And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,

Exodus 19:16
And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

Exodus 19:18
And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

Exodus 20:18
And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

Exodus 24:18
And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights

Deut. 4:11
And you came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire to the middle of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.

Deut. 5:4
The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the middle of the fire,


And these might be useful for deciding too (okay, i admit, just something my imagination wants to be true, but it is more true than god since alien organisms are on IO, ETLF might exist aswell):

[@kukac@]

I just received this image:

[Gabbe]

So true, and i just got back after going to church for 1,5 hours and you know what? i said i was Atheist, i got kicked..

[xxcatmysteryxx]

So true, and i just got back after going to church for 1,5 hours and you know what? i said i was Atheist, i got kicked..

Because religion is power and they will hate all people who don't believe what they believe......

[-Archmage-]

Quote from: Gabriel, Gabbe on Today at 07:57:04
So true, and i just got back after going to church for 1,5 hours and you know what? i said i was Atheist, i got kicked..
Because religion is power and they will hate all people who don't believe what they believe......

Sometimes......

I don't go to church, I simply believe in God because of the immense amount of science that proves that a God-like being exists.

[Gabbe]

Funny is, that all priests talk about their followers as sheeps...And they are the leaders...

[Omega]

I won't deny that the bible can be a tad sexist at time. One must remember that the bible is written by MAN. It did not magically fall out of heaven. Some parts may not even by completely accurate. In those times, Genesis is not necessarily correct (we should note now that 'Genesis' is multiple authors who are unknown, though obviously wasn't around at that time), but because he portrayed woman under men (ie: eve made from adam's rib), he caused a lot of gender equality that still persists today in some countries (notably the middle east and through stereotypes).

An interesting note in this is that you DON'T have to believe in much of the bible to believe in god. Remember, Christianity is based on the new testament. You do not have to believe Genesis's version. For all people care, you can believe god created your-watchamacallit-big bang-thingy thus creating life through that. Really, religion is very different, and a number of christian saints believed that you did not need priests at all, and studied god on their own. Church is more like a path to learning about god than the actual path to god. You can learn about god's teaching through many other ways, though the bible is the #1 by far.

Funny is, that all priests talk about their followers as sheeps...And they are the leaders...

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

The priests are technically a spreader of gods word on earth, thus why they are called 'Father'. A shepherd with sheep is simply an example of God's relationship to man.

Lol Im not lazy I just don't see any point in reading it anyways theres just so many bibles out there and if i don't have a religion then i see no point (wow im repeating myself alot)

Actually, there is only ONE bible, however, the bible is a collection of NUMEROUS books, and none are actually written in english. Most are ancient greek, hebrew, or latin. Therefore, there is a number of translations, etc that have different wording and sentence structure, however, they all tell the same story. Some versions of the bible were compiled for certain reasons and include/skip certain books.

[wyvern]

So whats going on.

[Gabbe]

talkin about the sexist bible