Author Topic: Religous Debates  (Read 97090 times)

-Archmage-

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #25 on: 6 April 2010, 20:08:47 »
You believe what you like, I'm not really ready to face you guys in a debate just yet, after I watch those college level courses on the matter, I'll be a bit more ready. :)

Although, I have some more sets of questions, that I doubt you'll be able to answer.
If you started from one cell, then:

Why do Humans reproduce sexually, instead of asexually?
-Nothing is random, but Evolution is as close as it gets, so where are all of Evolutions mistakes?

-Why can I do what I want, even if what I want doesn't make sense, or is illogical?
 You really think that complicated pieces of meat have a will?
 Why do you think that a complicated piece of meat would care about where it came from?
 Why should one complicated piece of meat care about another complicated piece of meat?

-Why can I express anger?
 Sure I have chemicals in my brain that cause me to look angry, but why should those chemicals elevate, why don't they just stay the same?

I bet I could come up with a lot more, but I'm lazy, why am I lazy?



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arch, you push everything onto us, give me ONE post, were you actually responded with intelligence...

Well, if Evolution is so true, then why do you care if I hit you with everything I got?
Besides, if you're just a piece of meat, why should you want a post from me?



Comon, Omega, Elim, can't you guys help out?
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ElimiNator

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #26 on: 6 April 2010, 20:23:22 »
You ask a question Ill answer.

And what is the squished pick about?
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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #27 on: 6 April 2010, 20:28:25 »
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If you started from one cell, then:

Why do Humans reproduce sexually, instead of asexually?
-Nothing is random, but Evolution is as close as it gets, so where are all of Evolutions mistakes?

Humans produce sexually, well, i answer two questions in one, that might be one of evolutions mistakes, or it might be a advantage (i see it as a advantage :O)

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-Why can I do what I want, even if what I want doesn't make sense, or is illogical?
 You really think that complicated pieces of meat have a will?
 Why do you think that a complicated piece of meat would care about where it came from?
 Why should one complicated piece of meat care about another complicated piece of meat?

Why do you brign in will? though of what if will did not exist, what if the entire universe were like a movie, that happens because that happend infinity?

Do you do things that are illogical? if it is illogical it would not serve any purpose, and whatever you do, it has a purpose, if i ran naked around in a town, jumping on strangers, it would have made me "hated" by alot of people, then it would served a purpose.
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-Why can I express anger?
 Sure I have chemicals in my brain that cause me to look angry, but why should those chemicals elevate, why don't they just stay the same?

Soryy, but my english come a little too short here, you do not express anger, you do something because something happened, aka, a chemical reaction, here my english comes short, elevate?? do you mean, like change? like one atom changes to another to make you look angry? let me tell you, that is not what happens, your eyes, see something, transmit to the brain, then, your angry! same thing with ears, taste etc.


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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #28 on: 6 April 2010, 20:37:24 »
How the hell did your post jump before mine, when i checked after posting i was first ????

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #29 on: 6 April 2010, 20:49:57 »
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Quote
If you started from one cell, then:

Why do Humans reproduce sexually, instead of asexually?
-Nothing is random, but Evolution is as close as it gets, so where are all of Evolutions mistakes?

Humans produce sexually, well, i answer two questions in one, that might be one of evolutions mistakes, or it might be a advantage (i see it as a advantage Laughing)

Don't be like Modman, I want to hear how evolution could have gotten sexual from asexual.
Sorry, that was a poorly stated question.



Quote
Quote
-Why can I do what I want, even if what I want doesn't make sense, or is illogical?
 You really think that complicated pieces of meat have a will?
 Why do you think that a complicated piece of meat would care about where it came from?
 Why should one complicated piece of meat care about another complicated piece of meat?

Why do you brign in will? though of what if will did not exist, what if the entire universe were like a movie, that happens because that happend infinity?

Do you do things that are illogical? if it is illogical it would not serve any purpose, and whatever you do, it has a purpose, if i ran naked around in a town, jumping on strangers, it would have made me "hated" by alot of people, then it would served a purpose.

No offense dude, but that was a terrible answer, because, why should a piece of meat care about purposes?
I don't see why anything should matter to a piece of meat...



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Soryy, but my english come a little too short here, you do not express anger, you do something because something happened, aka, a chemical reaction, here my english comes short, elevate?? do you mean, like change? like one atom changes to another to make you look angry? let me tell you, that is not what happens, your eyes, see something, transmit to the brain, then, your angry! same thing with ears, taste etc.

Uh, I don't think so......... ::)

Why should I get angry, how can I have a cause to get angry if I'm just a piece of meat?
Yet, people get angry at each other all the time, there's something about Evolution that makes absolutely no sense. :P



Quote
You ask a question Ill answer.

And what is the squished pick about?

Cool, I have some defenses now! :cheesy:
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Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #30 on: 6 April 2010, 20:53:09 »
Quote
Quote
If you started from one cell, then:

Why do Humans reproduce sexually, instead of asexually?
-Nothing is random, but Evolution is as close as it gets, so where are all of Evolutions mistakes?

Humans produce sexually, well, i answer two questions in one, that might be one of evolutions mistakes, or it might be a advantage (i see it as a advantage Laughing)

Don't be like Modman, I want to hear how evolution could have gotten sexual from asexual.
Sorry, that was a poorly stated question.



Quote
Quote
-Why can I do what I want, even if what I want doesn't make sense, or is illogical?
 You really think that complicated pieces of meat have a will?
 Why do you think that a complicated piece of meat would care about where it came from?
 Why should one complicated piece of meat care about another complicated piece of meat?

Why do you brign in will? though of what if will did not exist, what if the entire universe were like a movie, that happens because that happend infinity?

Do you do things that are illogical? if it is illogical it would not serve any purpose, and whatever you do, it has a purpose, if i ran naked around in a town, jumping on strangers, it would have made me "hated" by alot of people, then it would served a purpose.

No offense dude, but that was a terrible answer, because, why should a piece of meat care about purposes?
I don't see why anything should matter to a piece of meat...



Quote
Soryy, but my english come a little too short here, you do not express anger, you do something because something happened, aka, a chemical reaction, here my english comes short, elevate?? do you mean, like change? like one atom changes to another to make you look angry? let me tell you, that is not what happens, your eyes, see something, transmit to the brain, then, your angry! same thing with ears, taste etc.

Uh, I don't think so......... ::)

Why should I get angry, how can I have a cause to get angry if I'm just a piece of meat?
Yet, people get angry at each other all the time, there's something about Evolution that makes absolutely no sense. :P



Quote
You ask a question Ill answer.

And what is the squished pick about?

Cool, I have some defenses now! :cheesy:

Can only answer one thing, sorry i must go to bed now, and no im not reatreating from the debate, a CHEMICAL PIECE OF MEAT would care for purposes, if the chemical reaction "told" it to...

modman

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #31 on: 6 April 2010, 21:19:06 »
Good.  But let's keep in mind that these are less arguments than questions which are pursuits of past or modern biology.

Another thing to keep in mind is that I or science in general will admit ignorance, while religion will never do this.  Gap theology attempts to exploit this, but history shows us that even if we don't know why lightning happens, why plagues strike certain people, or why crops fail, supernaturalism is not necessarily responsible.

Why do Humans reproduce sexually, instead of asexually?
Science genuinely does not have an answer to this question right now.  The separation from asexual reproduction was a big leap, but I would suspect personally that it could be traced back to creatures like slime molds that reproduce in both ways.

Nothing is random, but Evolution is as close as it gets, so where are all of Evolutions mistakes?
"Mistake" implies a specified purpose, but in evolution there is none.  The closest thing to a "mistake" could be extinctions.

And if you think nothing is random, research electron clouds.

Why can I do what I want, even if what I want doesn't make sense, or is illogical?
You can't.  Things that are illogical are also impossible.  Example: a round square, exceeding the speed of light, etc.

Additionally, that's a strawman if you're trying to imply that evolution restricts actions to actions which "make sense".

Why can I express anger?
Sure I have chemicals in my brain that cause me to look angry, but why should those chemicals elevate, why don't they just stay the same?
Since neuropsychology is not a layman's hobby, I challenge you to show that this is relevant.  Not that there isn't an answer, but you're just as capable of finding it as I, if that is really your desire.

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arch, you push everything onto us, give me ONE post, were you actually responded with intelligence...

Well, if Evolution is so true, then why do you care if I hit you with everything I got?
Because if you consider "everything [you] got" to be re-stating your initial position, you might as well write a cohesive thesis statement and call it a term paper.

Comon, Omega, Elim, can't you guys help out?
Oh, you mean Eliminator, the one who has a difficulty discerning childish name calling from rhetoric?

Quote
Soryy, but my english come a little too short here, you do not express anger, you do something because something happened, aka, a chemical reaction, here my english comes short, elevate?? do you mean, like change? like one atom changes to another to make you look angry? let me tell you, that is not what happens, your eyes, see something, transmit to the brain, then, your angry! same thing with ears, taste etc.

Uh, I don't think so......... ::)

Why should I get angry, how can I have a cause to get angry if I'm just a piece of meat?
Yet, people get angry at each other all the time, there's something about Evolution that makes absolutely no sense. :P

Are you honestly confused on the differences between a life form and a "piece of meat"?  Do I really have to go through this?

Pieces of meat do not die (They're dead.  That's as nonsensical as saying that you could kill a rock).  They do not reproduce (let alone with variation).  Pieces of meat do not evolve.

Higher organisms have nervous systems.
Higher organisms are capable of emotions.

Finally, emotions are complex behaviors, that unlike eating, are harder to study.  But it would be dishonest to point to any supernatural entities for the source of these.

Short answer: I don't know.  But I will honestly admit that.  I doubt Ray Comfort would ever say that.

//EDIT

Cool, I have some defenses now!
This is a debate, not a shouting contest.  It doesn't matter if you have 2 people on your side or 2000; those who present appropriate rhetoric and evidence will always defeat those who don't.

There was once a time when everyone agreed that the Earth was flat.  Now, all but the Flat Earth Society know that this planet is round.
« Last Edit: 6 April 2010, 21:25:09 by Sir modman »

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #32 on: 6 April 2010, 21:31:43 »
Comon, Omega, Elim, can't you guys help out?
Oh, you mean Eliminator, the one who has a difficulty discerning childish name calling from rhetoric?
What are you talking about?

And why did you post this squished pic?
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modman

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #33 on: 6 April 2010, 22:11:16 »
Comon, Omega, Elim, can't you guys help out?
Oh, you mean Eliminator, the one who has a difficulty discerning childish name calling from rhetoric?
What are you talking about?

Since I can't find the actual post with the offense, I'll officially rescind that allegation.  Maybe it was deleted.

Quote
And why did you post this squished pic?
It shouldn't be squished...

It was an image of the three apes in "Planet of the Apes" doing the old "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil", something I think about when people post that they're not interested in any other opinions (the very definition of closed-mindedness).

Closed-mindedness will hinder your critical thinking skills, and will make you a less effective debater.  Just a friendly warning to all.

Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #34 on: 7 April 2010, 13:16:05 »
modman, the followers of creationists are like sheeps, the creationists won`t say that creation is wrong, plain because the gain on being a creationist leeding the "sheeps". archmage is one of those creationists leading the sheep, he sees the truth, but won`t admit it is true, just because he will loose power/honour/respect, whatever...

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #35 on: 7 April 2010, 13:42:30 »
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modman, the followers of creationists are like sheeps, the creationists won`t say that creation is wrong, plain because the gain on being a creationist leeding the "sheeps". archmage is one of those creationists leading the sheep, he sees the truth, but won`t admit it is true, just because he will loose power/honour/respect, whatever...

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. :O :O :O
If you stand by that statement, then you've no clue what honor is.

I'm done debating here, for now, I'm just going to wait until Modman becomes less ignorant, you guys completely missed the point of the questions, and instead you guys answered them like idiots.

@Modman: You can do illogical things, a believe in Evolution is illogical for instance. ::)

Omega, why don't you carry this on, I'm getting tired of this, they just refuse to see logic when it's punching them in the gut. :|

PS: Gabbe, you might want to stay out of this discussion, you're making the Evolutionists look terrible. :P
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Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #36 on: 7 April 2010, 13:55:45 »
my english is too bad... if i could express in norwegian it would have been better...

but arch, do people not gain respect/power/honour when they let people follow them as "sheeps" because of religion, or in this case creationism? people are told, through the bible, by a, what i defines as, creationist leader, and since they are christian, i belive they suffer, yet do not know, from those...

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #37 on: 7 April 2010, 14:06:35 »
Generically, being a leader gives you power, and influence, but not respect and honor, those qualities come from what is done as leader.
Look at Obama, sure he has some power and influence, but the american people hate his guts, and he has no honor what-so-ever.

I stand completely separate from religion, I don't even go to church, I just believe that we were created, by god, by the flying spaghetti monster, by aliens, who knows, but our design is much to smart and logical to be a strange occurance like Evolution.

I also have not read the bible. I simply stand by logic.
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Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #38 on: 7 April 2010, 14:29:42 »
well, evolution is not strange occurance but is a way to predict what will happen next (long term, 100000000 years)
Actually, your theroy about aliens, that i actually also belived a long time ago...Until i saw the evidence of evolution, evolution is changes, evolution is when animals changes over a long time, so, we can`t see it, or can we? yes we can! this however, may be a little not-like-evolution, yet it somehow is. in 40 years, some people managed to get wolves, behave like dogs! a zoo had some cubs (i think it is baby wolves) and put them in a seperate cage each day, so that they grew up with humans talking to them each day, and the friendly ones got more food from the humans than the hostile ones, the hostile ones grew older, and eventually they had to be permanently set back into the old wolf cage with the other adult wolves. the friendly however, reproduced and got cubs, then again those cubs acted friendly as a result of their genome told them to. then you got some cubs  being hostile, some being friendly. then  again, those friendly reproduced, and the more friendly ones of the freidnly offspring (don`t knwo the word, i eman theyr cubs) got more food, and gained stronger, then they reproduced more cubs than the more hostile ones, resulting in that they became dogs, not wolves any longer, yes humans did interfere with this, but i think it is a fair example of evolution, and yes i know dogs can reproduce with wolves, but they are more likely to mate another dog, speciation happened, in the front of our eyes! a 40 years period of evolution, granted to us, not by the lord at all, not by aliens, but by humans, the wolves acted so that they would gain the advantage of the humans, just as in nature, the faster ones will be given more food, the slower ones will eventually be extinct, then the new generation will have speed on their side, then again, the faster ones will gain more food, make them more capable to reproduce, it is basically survival of the fittest, i hope you got what evolution is now and drop the creation-shit...


do you really belive in creation, or are you making your own theory based on your experiences? if so  :thumbup: your going the right way :O


do you say that my opinion does not matter? you appear to be in your previous post...

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PS: Gabbe, you might want to stay out of this discussion, you're making the Evolutionists look terrible. Tongue
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That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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If you stand by that statement, then you've no clue what honor is.

you gain respect/honour by being a leader leading not-so-smart people...

-Archmage-

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #39 on: 7 April 2010, 14:41:27 »
The Evolutionists don't have a chance with you debating, no offense, but your arguments are ridiculous.

I think Modman is a genius, he's just doesn't quite realize why Evolution makes no sense.

You on the other hand, are absolutely hilarious, I think I'm going to show my Dad your post tonight if you don't mind.

I'm not saying your opinion doesn't matter, I'm just saying it makes 0% sense. :|
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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #40 on: 7 April 2010, 14:43:32 »
i now, modman is a genious, nothing less, maybe more...

sure show my posts to your dad, but also show him that my english is bad...

and im 13... as you but your american right? english is your main language, or... call it american if you want :D

answer me please, are you creationist or making your own theory, since you are not a evolutionist what are you?

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #41 on: 7 April 2010, 14:46:57 »
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sure show my posts to your dad, but also show him that my english is bad...
I'll tell him you're foreign. ;) [You mean, "foreigner"? :D - @kukac@]



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and im 13... as you but your american right? english is your main language, or... call it american if you want Cheesy

I'm 12, and I'm american, yes.
« Last Edit: 7 April 2010, 16:44:58 by @kukac@ »
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Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #42 on: 7 April 2010, 14:49:18 »
Tell him im a russian (norwegian) :P hahahaha ok, don`t do that but answer my questions plox

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #43 on: 7 April 2010, 16:36:05 »
i forgot to say that ID and Creationism also have been defeated in court...

John.d.h

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #44 on: 7 April 2010, 16:57:33 »
Actually, Gabbe's argument about the wolves and dogs is pretty much a perfect representation of what evolution and natural selection are.  The individuals of a group that can survive better and reproduce better pass on their genes while the ones that are less fit don't.

Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #45 on: 7 April 2010, 17:00:49 »
Actually, Gabbe's argument about the wolves and dogs is pretty much a perfect representation of what evolution and natural selection are.  The individuals of a group that can survive better and reproduce better pass on their genes while the ones that are less fit don't.

SERIOUSLY? I didn`t think it was possible to understand it with my english...

@kukac@

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #46 on: 7 April 2010, 17:03:10 »
A lot of scientists are also making special creatures by choosing chosen creatures to pass their genes to each other (quite popular with fruits -> two trees that make big red apples will pass their genes to the next generation).

(click to show/hide)

It is made artificially, because some people realized that it works naturally too. Albino foxes die, because they can't hide in the forest normally, so they can't pass on their genes (or they can pass it harder, and it will keep their genes alive. For a while.).

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #47 on: 7 April 2010, 17:07:36 »
I don't see how any of that supports apes turning into Humans................ ::)

Also, why did Humans appear suddenly, why didn't we come in gradually?
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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #48 on: 7 April 2010, 17:08:23 »
SERIOUSLY? I didn`t think it was possible to understand it with my english...
I'm a Communications student.  Maybe that's why. ;D

(click to show/hide)
Indeed.  In a way, our culture inhibits natural selection.  I kinda like the idea of eugenics, but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable saying I'm in favor of actually doing it.

Also, why did Humans appear suddenly, why didn't we come in gradually?
[citation needed]

Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #49 on: 7 April 2010, 17:15:06 »

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Also, why did Humans appear suddenly, why didn't we come in gradually?
[citation needed]

Evolution says we come in gradually, we did not popup like creationists says...
cell-2cells-3cells i belive the genious have already explained that.