Author Topic: Religous Debates  (Read 97103 times)

Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #275 on: 27 April 2010, 14:21:18 »
Why was the soul first invented?

Was it to make people rely more on a god?

Was it because noone could proove that there was such a thing as a brain?

Was it because people did not know what the brain does?

If we have a soul, why do we have a brain, the soul is described as it does the work the brain does?

Is soul just a primitive word of brain?

Is soul there just to explain why we can think, as there were noone educated during the medieval times, that could say what the brain does?

Is the soul just a replacement of the brain?

wyvern

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #276 on: 27 April 2010, 14:42:54 »
To me the soul is pretty much a synonym for what the brain does but it also can be used to refer to the electrical current inside a human

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #277 on: 27 April 2010, 16:35:07 »
You can't see a soul. It is a fasinating part of the body (or not) that exists only through faith. When you die, the soul lives on (can't say the same for the ol' bod though). ;)
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Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #278 on: 27 April 2010, 16:38:00 »
common, don`t be a priest...

xxcatmysteryxx

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #279 on: 27 April 2010, 21:43:31 »
wow so many posts to read.... I can't and won't; you changed topics so much what exactly are we talking about?  :scared:

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #280 on: 27 April 2010, 22:24:29 »
wow so many posts to read.... I can't and won't; you changed topics so much what exactly are we talking about?  :scared:
lol Who knows anymore?  I think right now we're discussing whether or not there exists such a thing as a soul.

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #281 on: 28 April 2010, 01:30:37 »
Considering that the topic is titled "Religous Debates", it covers tons of stuff, so getting lost is pretty easy. :look:

Omega, belief in a soul requires no faith, logically the way we are able to choose and do things points to something behind the brain(something much more powerful), I believe the brain is just a tool for the soul to use the body(or something like that :P). :thumbup:
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modman

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #282 on: 28 April 2010, 05:40:37 »
You can't see a soul. It is a fasinating part of the body (or not) that exists only through faith. When you die, the soul lives on (can't say the same for the ol' bod though). ;)

I thought we were doing a debate, not pontificating / speculating / stating our opinions.  At least have one fact which can support your argument in your post.

Allow me to pull a couple of snippets:
Omega, belief in a soul requires no faith, logically the way we are able to choose and do things points to something behind the brain(something much more powerful), I believe the brain is just a tool for the soul to use the body(or something like that :P). :thumbup:
Quote
Arch, what do you think about those, who were driven to insanity? What happened to their so called "souls"?
Your brain gets screwed up, and you can't use it properly. :|

1. Assumptions There are souls, and they drive decision making.  Alcohol also can drive decision making.
2. If souls make decisions, the brain does not.
3. People driven to insanity will make bad decisions.
4. Their soul is causing them to do make bad decisions.
5. Alcohol can also cause people to make bad decisions.
6. Alcohol can effect the soul, but not the brain.
7. But alcohol can damage the brain temporarily.  It "dilates the channels in the cellular structure that regulates the flow of calcium.  More calcium than normal flows into the cells and stimulates increased activity. Somehow this abnormal "turning on" of activity causes a loss of the end segments but does not kill the whole cell. Losing the end segments, however, means losing incoming messages, which disrupts brain function".

http://www.wonderquest.com/BrainCells.htm

And I'm kinda being a little tough and mean, just so you guys get a glimpse of Evolutionary morals.

I thought you didn't believe in it?  Or are you just justifying your insult with an intellectual one (you understand so little that you don't even know why you're wrong).  Also, I thought you weren't going to mention evolution until you read up on it (which you quite obviously have not).

Sounds to me like you've been spoon-fed something from the far-Right.  I would suggest picking up some literature whose writers are intellectually accountable for their words and who do not have a built-in audience.  I mean, if someone is supporting evolution but their work is demonstrably false, they will get critical reception from the scientific community in the same way ID does.

//Edit

For example, the quote in your signature is actually mined from a letter to Asa Gray.  You can read the full letter in my signature.  I generally feel those in the wrong have something to hide, and so I try not to.  This is why you can read the full letter from the link in my signature.

Quote mining is an example of the type of intellectual dishonesty not tolerated within the intellectual community (from which Creationists are often booted).  It might be a type of plagiarism, is it?

//End edit

Quote
Exactly.  If you're going to ask science to prove or disprove something, provide evidence.

The fact that we have a will points to a 'spirit thingy'.
Has anyone programmed a robot to do things and then do something that it's not exactly "supposed" to do?

So our inability to program robots which are as complex as humans' after only 50 years of microcircuitry is supposed to prove the existence of something thought up long before?  So...I suppose philosophers were waiting for the transistor so that they could finally prove the existence of free will (which does not point to a soul anyways)?  Sorry Epicurus!  Wrong era to be born in!

How the hell am I supposed to figure that out?! :look:
We're talking about stuff that may be well beyond Human comprehension.

Once again, the joke's not on me, it's on you.  Your inability to even understand the basic principles of a system which you cannot demonstrate objectively or produce sensually but are utterly convinced to be true is a bit...telling.

My opinion about free will is that it is impossible to tell if there is free will or not.  We live in reality, and determinism and free will are both descriptors of reality.  To test either would require that one leave reality, which is impossible.

Since I never got a reply before, I would like one now.

Should I start a new topic for Free Will vs. Determinism?  It is not related to souls (in the sense that neither philosophy inhibits the existence of a soul).
« Last Edit: 28 April 2010, 05:48:27 by Sir modman »

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #283 on: 28 April 2010, 10:59:51 »
Quote
Quote from: -Archmage- on April 27, 2010, 08:20:44
Quote
Arch, what do you think about those, who were driven to insanity? What happened to their so called "souls"?
Your brain gets screwed up, and you can't use it properly. No Opinion

1. Assumptions There are souls, and they drive decision making.  Alcohol also can drive decision making.
2. If souls make decisions, the brain does not.
3. People driven to insanity will make bad decisions.
4. Their soul is causing them to do make bad decisions.
5. Alcohol can also cause people to make bad decisions.
6. Alcohol can effect the soul, but not the brain.
7. But alcohol can damage the brain temporarily.  It "dilates the channels in the cellular structure that regulates the flow of calcium.  More calcium than normal flows into the cells and stimulates increased activity. Somehow this abnormal "turning on" of activity causes a loss of the end segments but does not kill the whole cell. Losing the end segments, however, means losing incoming messages, which disrupts brain function".

http://www.wonderquest.com/BrainCells.htm

As I stated, brain goes bonkers, and it's hard to use.
Could you read what you quote?



Quote
Quote from: -Archmage- on April 27, 2010, 08:20:44
And I'm kinda being a little tough and mean, just so you guys get a glimpse of Evolutionary morals.

I thought you didn't believe in it?  Or are you just justifying your insult with an intellectual one (you understand so little that you don't even know why you're wrong).  Also, I thought you weren't going to mention evolution until you read up on it (which you quite obviously have not).

No, I don't believe in Evolution, I just know enough about it, and all the atrocities it has caused, what charles darwin did to black people and a lot more.

I have read about the core of the whole theory, it's just unsupportable. With a theory like Evolution proof just doesn't matter. :|



Quote
Sounds to me like you've been spoon-fed something from the far-Right.  I would suggest picking up some literature whose writers are intellectually accountable for their words and who do not have a built-in audience.  I mean, if someone is supporting evolution but their work is demonstrably false, they will get critical reception from the scientific community in the same way ID does.

The so-called "scientific community" are a bunch of dodos, all the people that talk about shots, well they're in the scientific community, shots are terrible, Global Warming is so obviously false, but let's not get into that. Generic scientists don't mean much to me any more, most of them are a bunch of geniuses being paid to lie.

I've read the first 25 pages of a book by John Sarfatti, Dawkins is an idiot, he's got quotes and everything, Dawkins is worse than Darwin!



Quote
For example, the quote in your signature is actually mined  from a letter to Asa Gray.  You can read the full letter in my signature.  I generally feel those in the wrong have something to hide, and so I try not to.  This is why you can read the full letter from the link in my signature.

Quote mining is an example of the type of intellectual dishonesty not tolerated within the intellectual community (from which Creationists are often booted).  It might be a type of plagiarism, is it?

I didn't know the source of that quote.



Quote
Quote from: -Archmage- on April 27, 2010, 08:20:44
Quote
Exactly.  If you're going to ask science to prove or disprove something, provide evidence.

The fact that we have a will points to a 'spirit thingy'.
Has anyone programmed a robot to do things and then do something that it's not exactly "supposed" to do?

So our inability to program robots which are as complex as humans' after only 50 years of microcircuitry is supposed to prove the existence of something thought up long before?  So...I suppose philosophers were waiting for the transistor so that they could finally prove the existence of free will (which does not point to a soul anyways)?  Sorry Epicurus!  Wrong era to be born in!

Sorry complexity doesn't go beyond the logic of the universe, no matter how complex the robot, it's only going to follow it's commands.

Is there anything in my genome that told me to eat some chocolate banana bread?

Sorry it was my choice to eat that?

Modman, it points to something more, not exactly a soul, but definitely something more, and considering all the things my Mom has done in Spirituality(walking on fire, watching tables float, talking to spirits, and somehow each of us knew my souls height, and I myself have experienced being out of my body, I mean, ask her and she could list tons more stuff!).



Quote
Quote from: -Archmage- on April 27, 2010, 08:20:44
How the hell am I supposed to figure that out?! Look
We're talking about stuff that may be well beyond Human comprehension.

Once again, the joke's not on me, it's on you.  Your inability to even understand the basic principles of a system which you cannot demonstrate objectively or produce sensually but are utterly convinced to be true is a bit...telling.

I have it pretty clear in my mind, but I have trouble expressing it in words, especially to you, because it has to sound good, otherwise you act like a 1200's flat earth believer.



Quote
Quote from: Sir modman on January 05, 2010, 01:04:39
My opinion about free will is that it is impossible to tell if there is free will or not.  We live in reality, and determinism and free will are both descriptors of reality.  To test either would require that one leave reality, which is impossible.

Since I never got a reply before, I would like one now.

Should I start a new topic for Free Will vs. Determinism?  It is not related to souls (in the sense that neither philosophy inhibits the existence of a soul).

I can tell Free Will from Determinism easily, what the hell is wrong with you?
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Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #284 on: 28 April 2010, 13:24:30 »
Quote
I just know enough about it

Or you don`t

Quote
what charles darwin did to black people

Was he racist? :0

just because of that doesn`t mean his science was wrong. (his science about evolution, but did you know, black people in the us have 80 points white have 100 points and asian have 120? it was from some tests, but it may be ethnical, though, i have met many black people, and some are smart as hell, but more is so dumb i sometiems want to laugh at them.)

Quote
I have read about the core of the whole theory

Ah, youve read about the core, mind checking on the sub-theories?
The core of your belief, A god-like being created us.

How supportable?

Quote

The so-called "scientific community" are a bunch of dodos, all the people that talk about shots, well they're in the scientific community, shots are terrible, Global Warming is so obviously false, but let's not get into that. Generic scientists don't mean much to me any more, most of them are a bunch of geniuses being paid to lie.

So, basically what youre saying is that the SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY is not scince, but regular people like you, with no knowledge, no tests, no results, no observations, no achievements, basically nothing, is not science?

Quote
I have it pretty clear in my mind, but I have trouble expressing it in words, especially to you, because it has to sound good, otherwise you act like a 1200's flat earth believer.

Try, my english is suckish, but i try.

Quote
Is there anything in my genome that told me to eat some chocolate banana bread?

Hormones perhaps, aha, your brain may have told you.
Quote
Modman, it points to something more, not exactly a soul, but definitely something more, and considering all the things my Mom has done in Spirituality(walking on fire, watching tables float, talking to spirits, and somehow each of us knew my souls height, and I myself have experienced being out of my body, I mean, ask her and she could list tons more stuff!).

I can make up a worser lie than that, just as you know, askign someone and getting an answer is not enough, especially not someone that has no backup, the soul cannot be seen, therefore not prooved, nor disprooved, it is kinda troublesome, cause how did we come up with a soul in the first place, and YOU HAVET YET TO DISPROOVE THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER, or rather, can you? my proof is like this: I am right, your wrong, thats it.

There is usually something wrong with people using these as facts:

Quote
walking on fire, watching tables float, talking to spirits, and somehow each of us knew my souls height, and I myself have experienced being out of my body, I mean, ask her and she could list tons more stuff!

[Just edited some grammatical errors - @kukac@]
« Last Edit: 28 April 2010, 13:37:22 by @kukac@ »

@kukac@

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #285 on: 28 April 2010, 13:40:43 »
Jesus has stepped on the water, and walked on it. His followers tried to follow him, but they sank into the water. One of Jesus' student shouts after him:
- Hey, you should have showed them the stakes before!

Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #286 on: 28 April 2010, 13:58:58 »
Jesus has stepped on the water, and walked on it. His followers tried to follow him, but they sank into the water. One of Jesus' student shouts after him:
- Hey, you should have showed them the stakes before!

I belive evryone agrees here that jesus was a idiot?

wyvern

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #287 on: 28 April 2010, 14:25:39 »
Heres a joke some of you may have heard.

A priest, a rabi, and a monk are in a boat 50 feet from the shore the monk gets out and walks on the water all the way to the shore.
The rabi does the same leaving only the priest in the boat. The priest thinks "I'm just as holy as they are, I should be able to do the same" He gets into the water and sinks, he gets back in the boat and tries again only to fail, he tries some more times but always fails
Meanwhile the rabi asks the monk,




Shall we tell him where the rocks are

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #288 on: 28 April 2010, 15:02:37 »
Quote
Quote
what charles darwin did to black people

Was he racist? :0

Yes he was racist, and his motives were anti-god.



Quote
just because of that doesn`t mean his science was wrong. (his science about evolution, but did you know, black people in the us have 80 points white have 100 points and asian have 120? it was from some tests, but it may be ethnical, though, i have met many black people, and some are smart as hell, but more is so dumb i sometiems want to laugh at them.)

True.



Quote
Quote
I have read about the core of the whole theory

Ah, youve read about the core, mind checking on the sub-theories?
The core of your belief, A god-like being created us.

How supportable?

My theory is fully supportable!

You believe in a random process, I believe in a creator.

In that one sentence creation clearly sounds like the logical way we got here, look at a tree, random mutations I think not.

I don't need to look at the sub-theories, they are all branches of the core.



Quote
Quote

The so-called "scientific community" are a bunch of dodos, all the people that talk about shots, well they're in the scientific community, shots are terrible, Global Warming is so obviously false, but let's not get into that. Generic scientists don't mean much to me any more, most of them are a bunch of geniuses being paid to lie.

So, basically what youre saying is that the SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY is not scince, but regular people like you, with no knowledge, no tests, no results, no observations, no achievements, basically nothing, is not science?

No, they are smart people, but they are being payed to lie, is what I said, if you would please read. :|



Quote
Quote
Is there anything in my genome that told me to eat some chocolate banana bread?

Hormones perhaps, aha, your brain may have told you.

A robot would need a direct command to eat the banana bread located on the table, but no, I just went to the kitchen and decided that I wanted some.

My brain told me? Uh, that's kinda a brain disorder if you get what I mean, it's more like I told my brain to send signals out to my arms to pick up the bread. :P



Quote
Quote
Modman, it points to something more, not exactly a soul, but definitely something more, and considering all the things my Mom has done in Spirituality(walking on fire, watching tables float, talking to spirits, and somehow each of us knew my souls height, and I myself have experienced being out of my body, I mean, ask her and she could list tons more stuff!).

I can make up a worser lie than that, just as you know, askign someone and getting an answer is not enough, especially not someone that has no backup, the soul cannot be seen, therefore not prooved, nor disprooved, it is kinda troublesome, cause how did we come up with a soul in the first place, and YOU HAVET YET TO DISPROOVE THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER, or rather, can you? my proof is like this: I am right, your wrong, thats it

Well, I think it's kinda funny that she walked on fire then.......

And saying that you can't see it so you can't prove it, is like saying you can't see air so you can't proove it, following a simple path of logic will tell you that there is some substance floating around which you breathe.



Quote
There is usually something wrong with people using these as facts:

Quote
walking on fire, watching tables float, talking to spirits, and somehow each of us knew my souls height, and I myself have experienced being out of my body, I mean, ask her and she could list tons more stuff!

You don't want to believe it, because you don't think science can prove it.
Why don't you just go see someone walk on fire, it's done all over the place as far as I know, just because a bunch of scientists say something isn't possible doesn't mean they're right, scientists get payed to say things all the time. :P



Quote
Jesus has stepped on the water, and walked on it. His followers tried to follow him, but they sank into the water. One of Jesus' student shouts after him:
- Hey, you should have showed them the stakes before!

Typical of you evolutionists, making fun of anything relating to god and jesus. :thumbdown:
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Gabbe

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #289 on: 28 April 2010, 15:22:07 »
Quote
Typical of you evolutionists, making fun of anything relating to god and jesus. Thumb Down

 :thumbdown: god and jesus is a random story, rewritten, then gone famous. :thumbup:

Quote
You believe in a random process
I can belive in a creator, but we did evolve.

I belive in how things affect eachother, not in randoms.

Quote
I don't need to look at the sub-theories, they are all branches of the core.

"i don`t need to" "i don`t want to" " i don`t undertstand why i should" the common acts of a creationist.

Please see through the scripts of the dover trial i posted earlier.
Quote
You don't want to believe it, because you don't think science can prove it.
Why don't you just go see someone walk on fire, it's done all over the place as far as I know, just because a bunch of scientists say something isn't possible doesn't mean they're right, scientists get payed to say things all the time. Tongue

Conspiracy theory?

wyvern

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #290 on: 28 April 2010, 16:52:05 »
I believe religion exaggerates some, alot of things, but I find that neither of the theories that you argue over satisfy me. I find it hard to believe that a single being created us, on the other hand it is kind of improbable that humans evolved from fish or monkeys. I think humans have been on this earth longer than we know but on the other hand who knows, we probably won't find out in our lifetimes.

modman

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #291 on: 29 April 2010, 02:44:50 »
As I stated, brain goes bonkers, and it's hard to use.
Could you read what you quote?
Of course I can read what I quote.  But your answer was inadequate because you didn't point out what was wrong with my logic.  Below we will see it is you who is impressed with his ability to read 25 pages in a book.

No, I don't believe in Evolution, I just know enough about it, and all the atrocities it has caused, what charles darwin did to black people and a lot more.
First, Charles Darwin did nothing to black people.  Interestingly, he published his theory just about the time that slavery was being fought over in the US.  Southern slave owners were some of the strongest Christians in all of America at the time, and they were able to support their cause with the Bible.

You seem to think that Christianity is the fastest path to modern interpretations on morality.  But read this:

Quote from: ”Mahavira, Jain religious text”
Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being.
High standards (like the Ten Commandments, impossibly so), but maybe St. Paul should have taken some notes.

With a theory like Evolution proof just doesn't matter.
A scientific theory stands only on it's ability to explain and predict reality.  So to the theory it doesn't really matter how Einstein, Newton, or Darwin behaved.

For example, I hear Hitler was a fervent believer in Newtonian physics.  Did science throw out that theory because of the bad PR it was getting?

The so-called "scientific community" are a bunch of dodos, all the people that talk about shots, well they're in the scientific community, shots are terrible, Global Warming is so obviously false, but let's not get into that. Generic scientists don't mean much to me any more, most of them are a bunch of geniuses being paid to lie.
Shots?  Oh, you mean like smallpox vaccines that save millions of lives each year?  Yup, it's all a damn conspiracy.

Quote from: Wikipedia (not a conspiracy)
The disease killed an estimated 400,000 Europeans per year during the closing years of the 18th century (including five monarchs), and was responsible for a third of all blindness.  Of all those infected, 20–60%—and over 80% of infected children—died from the disease.

I've read the first 25 pages of a book by John Sarfatti, Dawkins is an idiot, he's got quotes and everything, Dawkins is worse than Darwin!
You do realize you've just committed a major ad hominem right?  This is what I should expect from someone who cannot be bothered by evidence yet is convinced his position is true after reading 25 pages from a book.  Not to mention habitually bad grammar (the period key is next to the comma).

I didn't know the source of that quote.
Which means you’re letting other people do your thinking for you, and then trying to take credit for it.  The problem for creationists is that there is so little information that they can use.  They have few arguments, whose rebuttals are easily mastered, and they all tend to quote mine the same stuff.

Sorry complexity doesn't go beyond the logic of the universe, no matter how complex the robot, it's only going to follow it's commands.
The opinion that it is impossible to create free will from complexity is not a law of the universe.  Additionally, by what authority can you say that humans can never create robots with free will?

Is there anything in my genome that told me to eat some chocolate banana bread?
Well, once you’ve ate it, who is to say that you weren’t destined to eat it from day one?  Unpredictability cannot necessarily be shown to be free will.

Random number generators have very complex ways of generating one specific output.  If we didn’t know how the generator worked (e.g. “It has a soul, man!”) how would you show that it is not free will?

I have it pretty clear in my mind, but I have trouble expressing it in words, especially to you, because it has to sound good, otherwise you act like a 1200's flat earth believer.
Translation: “I’m convinced I’m right but there is no evidence to back my position”.

I can tell Free Will from Determinism easily, what the hell is wrong with you?
Nothing is wrong with me, or anyone else who disagrees with you.

But you seem to have difficulties in reading comprehension.  What the statement says is that in hindsight, it is impossible to discern free will from determinism.

Yes he was racist, and his motives were anti-god.
Not all Christians disagree with Darwin.  For example, the Catholic Church, the largest religious denomination the world has ever known.  Obviously the Pope’s motives were also anti-God too.

Quote from: -Archmage-
My theory is fully supportable!  You believe in a random process, I believe in a creator.  In that one sentence creation clearly sounds like the logical way we got here, look at a tree, random mutations I think not.
Blanket claim, strawman, appeal to common sense.  You can’t honestly consider that an argument.

An appeal to common sense is not logical because common sense is not authoritative.  The appeal to common sense got us geocentricism and flat earth-ism.

Quote from: -Archmage-
Well, I think it's kinda funny that she walked on fire then.
Me too.  And so would every other rational person, because in a debate you cannot just claim a supernatural experience and expect people to agree with you.  Remind me, how does fire-walking prove souls?

BTW there is some science behind this ability, but that’s not really important because you’re trying to prove the existence of souls with it.

Quote from: -Archmage-
And saying that you can't see it so you can't prove it, is like saying you can't see air so you can't proove it, following a simple path of logic will tell you that there is some substance floating around which you breathe.
Strawman.  No one is so silly as to say that there is no air.  Light a match.  You can’t do that in a vacuum.

We cannot see gravity, yet we can substantiate our claims with evidence, which is far more reliable than mystical claims about human anatomy.

Plus, we can measure wind speed (relative motion of air), and we can see the effects of tornadoes, and hurricanes.

Quote from: -Archmage-
Typical of you evolutionists, making fun of anything relating to god and jesus.
If it weren’t so ridiculous it wouldn’t be laughable.  Every religion makes supernatural claims.  Followers of every major religion claim to have supernatural experiences, yet you seem to think you are in a position to pronounce that yours is the only “correct” religion.

//EDIT
OK, you can read 25 pages in a book.  I wouldn't be surprised if you chose not to read my post though (equivalent of a couple paragraphs of text).  Don't say it hasn't happened before.
« Last Edit: 29 April 2010, 02:55:48 by Sir modman »

John.d.h

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #292 on: 29 April 2010, 06:18:22 »
As compelling as your supernatural experiences may be for you, 1.) asking someone else to believe that they happened, and 2.) asserting that they prove the existence of a soul or divine being, are both pretty invalid arguments unless you can back them up.  I believe I've had a spiritual/supernatural experience, but I'm not going to bother saying what it is for both of those reasons.  The believers will say "yep, that's God", and the non-believers will say "nope, that's your brain", and then we're back at square one.

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #293 on: 29 April 2010, 06:46:12 »
As compelling as your supernatural experiences may be for you, 1.) asking someone else to believe that they happened, and 2.) asserting that they prove the existence of a soul or divine being, are both pretty invalid arguments unless you can back them up.  I believe I've had a spiritual/supernatural experience, but I'm not going to bother saying what it is for both of those reasons.  The believers will say "yep, that's God", and the non-believers will say "nope, that's your brain", and then we're back at square one.

And then he can continue re-use his arguments, like modman stated before, but i would like to see arch answer those questions, backed up with referencec or citation (just learned a new word! :o) and the citation should be backed up with references, and the references should be logical, and the logic must be in-terms of science since he claims his belief to be scientific.

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #294 on: 29 April 2010, 06:59:10 »
The believers will say "yep, that's God", and the non-believers will say "nope, that's your brain", and then we're back at square one.
But what was there to gain anyways?  One group has so much substantiation to do (and realistically will probably not accept defeat anyways), while the other will continue to produce scientists who run tests to actually find out what the reality is.

I'd personally like to know what progress there has been in theology in the last 500-1000 years.  In all other fields, someone from that period would lost.  But in theology, there is no progress, only the same tired (& bogus) rebuttals.  Even in philosophy, there has been progress in ethics, for example.

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #295 on: 29 April 2010, 13:55:15 »
Modman, I am not going to argue about religion.

You believe in random mutations and then the bad ones die out, I believe in a creator.

I believe in a creator because the human body is so complex.
I think everything was created, because according to the math there is no way that Evolution could even modify a cell without destroying it.
Also according to the math, Evolution would take almost an infinite amount of time to get a Human, much less, anything that could live.

Well, sorry, you only have, what, 3 billion years.

The theory of creation is perfectly logical and fits what we see in the universe, and the fact that you believe in a random process with the bad ones dying out is not only unreasonable, and illogical, it's evil. Because to me it sounds like you don't want to believe you were created.

In fact, Darwin was driven to create his theory because he didn't want to believe in a god.

And yes, Modman, he did do many terrible, and racist things!
Check this out: http://blog.drwile.com/?p=271
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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #296 on: 29 April 2010, 14:04:02 »
Modman, I am not going to argue about religion.

You believe in random mutations and then the bad ones die out, I believe in a creator.

I believe in a creator because the human body is so complex.
I think everything was created, because according to the math there is no way that Evolution could even modify a cell without destroying it.
Also according to the math, Evolution would take almost an infinite amount of time to get a Human, much less, anything that could live.

Well, sorry, you only have, what, 3 billion years.

The theory of creation is perfectly logical and fits what we see in the universe, and the fact that you believe in a random process with the bad ones dying out is not only unreasonable, and illogical, it's evil. Because to me it sounds like you don't want to believe you were created.

In fact, Darwin was driven to create his theory because he didn't want to believe in a god.

And yes, Modman, he did do many terrible, and racist things!
Check this out: http://blog.drwile.com/?p=271
a cell reproduces itself after half an hour...

The human body is simple
The flagella...

How many times do i have to say, and i belive modman already has, that there could`ve been a creator? and how many cells does the human body posses? they reproduce after half an hour, and then you have two cells increasing.
Darwin was driven to his theory, well, i belive someone said "i belive the future is just as predictable as the past"
Why didn`t Darwin belive in god? all my books i have says he did.
Whatever he was racist or not, that is irrelevant tothe diguission.
It may aswell just been the chruch made him racist, don`t say my theory about that is completely wrong, the church have done faaaaar worse...

Quote
backed up with referencec or citation (just learned a new word! Shocked) and the citation should be backed up with references, and the references should be logical, and the logic must be in-terms of science since he claims his belief to be scientific.

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #297 on: 29 April 2010, 14:06:57 »
Quote
At some future period not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes…will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest Allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as the baboon, instead of as now between the Negro or Australian and the gorilla.1

People at that time who were black had about no education, and they were savages, and they lived primitive. Why wouldn`t he be racist?

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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #298 on: 29 April 2010, 14:48:21 »
Quote
Quote from: -Archmage- on Today at 11:00:03
Modman, I am not going to argue about religion.

You believe in random mutations and then the bad ones die out, I believe in a creator.

I believe in a creator because the human body is so complex.
I think everything was created, because according to the math there is no way that Evolution could even modify a cell without destroying it.
Also according to the math, Evolution would take almost an infinite amount of time to get a Human, much less, anything that could live.

Well, sorry, you only have, what, 3 billion years.

The theory of creation is perfectly logical and fits what we see in the universe, and the fact that you believe in a random process with the bad ones dying out is not only unreasonable, and illogical, it's evil. Because to me it sounds like you don't want to believe you were created.

In fact, Darwin was driven to create his theory because he didn't want to believe in a god.

And yes, Modman, he did do many terrible, and racist things!
Check this out: http://blog.drwile.com/?p=271
a cell reproduces itself after half an hour...

The human body is simple
The flagella...

How many times do i have to say, and i belive modman already has, that there could`ve been a creator? and how many cells does the human body posses? they reproduce after half an hour, and then you have two cells increasing.

Congratulations you now have a blob of cells!
Have as many as you want, you still have to somehow rely on random chance to get you a human.
Good luck!



Yah, Darwin did believe in God, but his daughter died(at 10 years old, I think), and he thought God was cruel and came up with his ridiculous theory.
Would you like me to go into detail?



Quote
Quote
At some future period not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes…will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest Allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as the baboon, instead of as now between the Negro or Australian and the gorilla.1

People at that time who were black had about no education, and they were savages, and they lived primitive. Why wouldn`t he be racist?

So a savage is someone who doesn't live like you and me huh, that's racist within itself. :P
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Re: Religous Debates
« Reply #299 on: 29 April 2010, 16:24:17 »
Please keep the arguments to respectable terms please (don't flame the person, flame their ideas). :-X

I agree with the biggest main point, the body is too complex and amazing to be a product of some 1 in a [insert number larger than infinity in here]. That alone prooves the existance of god. HOWEVER, the people who don't believe in god suffer from shortsight. They only believe what they can see and feel.

I can't see that virus that gave me a cold, but I know it was there, 'cause otherwise I wouldn't be feeling like that. :P
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