Religous Debates

[Gabbe]

HOWEVER, the people who don't believe in god suffer from shortsight.

You belive in someone that people made up 2000 years ago, i belive in realism, i haven`t seen oxygen, yet i belive in it because it is reasonable, and i am sure i can get up with some tests if you want to, that prooves it.

Look at my signature...

[-Archmage-]

Gabbe, I'm sorry if you don't realize how true the bible is, and how much evidence that there is for it.

Check out godandscience.org

[modman]

Gabbe, I'm sorry if you don't realize how true the bible is, and how much evidence that there is for it.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
"The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises."

No, the sun doesn't actually hasten anywhere.  The Earth spins.  But this is the sort of thing we would expect from bronze-age writers utilizing only bronze-age science.

And no, I will not go to your website.  You need to stop pointing people to websites and start presenting the ideas here yourself.  Seriously, if I was interested in half-baked attacks on Darwin (Your website actually admits evolution to be true, by the way.  You might want to check the website out instead of googling and copying the first link you see.) I would go to church.  Or, I could go to the website myself, finding it using Google.  I could then write a comment to the author of the website.

Did you ever realize why books consist of more than a works cited page?  It's because the writer takes the time to spell it out for the reader.

I can't see that virus that gave me a cold, but I know it was there, 'cause otherwise I wouldn't be feeling like that.

How do you know it isn't just an evil spirit?  Those "dodo scientists" who came up with vaccinations (dreaded shots) also believe in global warming!  Maybe you should go back to the tried and true method of blood letting.

[-Archmage-]

It's obvious that the universe has a creator, and it's even more obvious that all lifeforms have a creator, most of you now realize that the universe was most definitely created, now I'm going to enjoy watching Evolution go down in flames.


The body and soul of Charles Darwin's Theory of Evolution was his idea that evolution was made possible through natural selection. This concept is based on the suggestion that those members of a species that are a little stronger, a little larger, or run a little faster will live longer to procreate offspring with these superior adaptations. Darwin's theory suggests that millions of generations later the changes will result in new species. These adaptations are called links or intermediates.



Scientific Fact No. 1 - Birds Prove Natural Selection is Naturally Wrong

Help! I can't fly. My head is too big, and my wings are too small.

The idea of natural selection sounds great when considering deer. The deer that can sense danger the quickest and run the fastest are able to escape the predator on a more consistent basis. However, other examples on the evolutionary tree have many laughable flaws. One of the best is the thought that a bird began to evolve a wing. Why this would occur is not answered by evolutionists. The wing stub did not make the bird more adaptable in his environment. The wing was much too small for the bird to fly. Why would a bird evolve a wing that was useless? This is backwards from the evolutionary natural selection concept that birds adapt and change in order to survive better in their environment. The bird with a half-size wing is placed at a disadvantage in its environment. Why would the bird continue for millions of generations improving a wing that was useless? The theory of evolution is based on natural selection of the most adaptable member of a species. A bird with a useless wing is at a severe disadvantage and the opposite from natural selection. According to natural selection the members of the bird species with the smallest useless wing would be the most adaptable and most likely to survive in the largest numbers. According to the theory of natural selection birds could never evolve to fly. Evolution is simply nonsense. This is so funny. We are then led to believe that some birds got tired of carrying around a worthless half-size wing so they grew fingers on the end to help climb trees. The wings became arms and a new species was developed. Evolutionists actually believe this nonsense.

Scientific Fact No. 2 - Species Without a Link Proves Evolution is Wrong

The evolutionist will claim that the presence of many individual species proves evolution. This shallow statement is devoid of reason, logic and scientific proof. Evolutionists line up pictures of similar looking species and claim they evolved one to another. Humans are a great example. There are hundreds of species of extinct monkeys and apes. Petrified skulls and bones exist from these creatures. Evolutionists line up the most promising choices to present a gradual progression from monkey to modern man. They simply fill in the big gaps with make-believe creatures to fit the picture. This procedure can be done with humans only because there are many extinct monkey and ape species. They never do this with giraffes and elephants. These pictures are placed in all evolutionists' text books to teach kids this nonsense. The picture is simply a grouping of individual species that does not prove evolution.

Scientific Fact No. 3 - Single Cell Complexity Proves Evolution is Wrong

Scientists a century ago believed the smallest single living cell was a simple life form. The theory developed that perhaps lightning struck a pond of water causing several molecules to combine in a random way which by chance resulted in a living cell. The cell then divided and evolved into higher life forms. This view is now proven to be immature to the degree of being ridiculous. The most modern laboratory is unable to create a living cell. In fact, scientists have been unable to create a single left-hand protein molecule as found in all animals.

Scientific Fact No. 4 - Human Egg and Sperm Proves Evolution is Wrong

The evolutionist ignores the problem surrounding the human female egg and the male sperm in the evolutionary theory. The female egg contains the X-chromosome and the male sperm contains either an X-chromosome for the reproduction of a male or a Y-chromosome for the reproduction of a female. The female eggs all develop within the ovaries while she is a baby (fetus) within her mother's womb. Evolutionists claim environmental factors cause small changes in the offspring in the evolutionary chain. However, the environmental experience of the female cannot change the chromosomes within her eggs and cannot have any effect upon her offspring. Her body cannot go into the eggs contained within her ovaries at her birth to make an intelligent change. Females cannot be a part of the evolutionary theory for these reasons.

Scientific Fact No. 5 - DNA Error Checking Proves Evolution is Wrong

The scientific fact that DNA replication includes a built-in error checking method and a DNA repair process proves the evolutionary theory is wrong. The fact is that any attempt by the DNA to change is stopped and reversed.

Scientific Fact No. 6 - Chaos From Organization Proves Evolution is Wrong

The second law of thermodynamics proves that organization cannot flow from chaos. Complex live organisms cannot rearrange themselves into an organism of a higher form as claimed by evolutionists. This is scientifically backwards according to the second law of thermodynamics that has never been proven wrong. Scientists cannot have it both ways. The second law of thermodynamics is proven to be correct. Evolution lacks any scientific proof. Evolution is simply an empty theory.

Scientific Fact No. 7 - Chromosome Count Proves Evolution is Wrong

There is no scientific evidence that a species can change the number of chromosomes within the DNA. The chromosome count within each species is fixed. This is the reason a male from one species cannot mate successfully with a female of another species. Man could not evolve from a monkey. Each species is locked into its chromosome count that cannot change. If an animal developed an extra chromosome or lost a chromosome because of some deformity, it could not successfully mate. The defect could not be passed along to the next generation. Evolving a new species is scientifically impossible. Evolutionists prove that getting a college education does not impart wisdom.

Scientific Fact No. 8 - Origin of Matter and Stars Proves Evolution is Wrong

Evolutionists just throw up their hands at the question of the origin of matter because they know something cannot evolve from nothing. They stick their heads in the sand and ignore the problem. The fact that matter exists in outrageously large quantities simply proves evolution is wrong. The "Big Bang" theory doesn't solve the problem either. Matter and energy have to come from somewhere.

Scientific Fact No. 9 - Lack of Life on Mars Proves Evolution is Wrong

Two NASA two land rovers named Spirit and Opportunity explored Mars during 2004. The topography shows obvious signs of past liquid rivers flowing in numerous places. The rovers have proven that water was once abundant on the surface of Mars, but they have not been able to find any signs of life or any signs of past life on the planet. Mars has a proven history of flowing water on the surface and an atmosphere suitable to support life forms. The planet has had all of the conditions necessary to provide the "spark" of life according to the evolutionary theory, yet there is no life on Mars. The river beds and river banks show no signs of vegetation or trees. The ground has no fossils and no organisms. The place is absolutely sterile.

Scientific Fact No. 10 - Radio Silence from Space Proves Evolution is Wrong

Mars is not the only place that shows no signs of life. The entire universe lacks any sign of life. There are no radio signals that can be related to intelligent life forms. None of the billions of galaxies has been found to emit any intelligent radio signals. Scientists have been pointing every type of radio telescope possible into space for several decades in hopes of finding an intelligent signal. No signs of life beyond Earth have been found. We are alone.

From: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread163678/pg1

[Gabbe]

Nice post, and i see you took my advice about posting links, instead of modmans about not, i`ll read later when i have time.

[wyvern]

I think the Bible is historically correct in many aspects but exaggerates lots of things, for example it may be doubtful that the world was created in seven days but it could have been created in seven stages which would in fact, mostly correspond with what evolutionists say the world developed like, for example most evolutionists say that animals lived in the water, then plants started to grow on land, and finally some animals evolved into land creatures, and stop me if I'm wrong the Bible says something very similar to this only that it attributes the whole thing to God in seven days.

[Gabbe]

the earth developed in six phases if thats what tyour pointing to, and historians tells that "the week" were something at the time the bible was wrote, so the seven days, and the week may have something to do with eachother, however, debating over the bible is useless, every christian will think theyr belief is right, no matter, since they were thaught it is right by people they see as higher intelligent, mostly refered to as parents, or priests, but it is the opposite, theyr dumb and belive in god becuase they were also thaught to do so..

[-Archmage-]

Gabbe, I'm sorry but your opinion on why people believe in God is far off.

[Gabbe]

why you belive in god, all the christians i have met cannot argue why they belive...

[Omega]

why you belive in god, all the christians i have met cannot argue why they belive...

You met me, haven't you?

Very interesting post archmage.

Copied from http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.

But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.

When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?
Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?
Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."11

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13

Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.
I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.

I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."

Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.

6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.

He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."15

What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.16

Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.

Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."17 This is God, in action.

Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."18

God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.

If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.
This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."19 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."

God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."

Yeah I know, extremely long, but it about sums it up well.

[wyvern]

There is a thing called luck, and I'd say our placement in the Universe could be because of luck.

[Gabbe]

The Earth...its size is perfect.

No bacteria can survive with a lot more huuge pressure, then they could`ve evolved into beings able to sustain the gravity.

The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury

The universe is so wast that you cannot talk about the mercury, the majority of planets spotted is unhabitable (yes there have been spotted planets within the habitable zone)

For the planet talk i suggest watchin the first of this series:




And it felt boring reading all of that...i suppose im lazy...

[@kukac@]

Scientific Fact No. 1 - Birds Prove Natural Selection is Naturally Wrong
[...]

http://www.geologyrocks.co.uk/system/files/u3/birdcompl.gif

For example, this was a good picture. You think about evolution, that it has happened with 1 cell/generation. That's not right, we call mutation what happened in a larger scale. If you want a short example, put a man and his son near each other. They are not totally alike.

Scientific Fact No. 2 - Species Without a Link Proves Evolution is Wrong
[...]

Ahh, not every species have links, although, horses, cats, insects have a quite large scale to choose from
Mammoth, saber tooth tiger, those crocodile like dinosaurs (http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/typesofdinosaurs/a/crocodilians.htm), and so on.

Scientific Fact No. 3 - Single Cell Complexity Proves Evolution is Wrong
[...]

No one said, that we know the reason of life, so it's useless to mumble about it.  

Scientific Fact No. 4 - Human Egg and Sperm Proves Evolution is Wrong
[...]The female egg contains the X-chromosome and the male sperm contains either an X-chromosome for the reproduction of a male or a Y-chromosome for the reproduction of a female.[...]However, the environmental experience of the female cannot change the chromosomes within her eggs and cannot have any effect upon her offspring.[...]

You are wrong in some ways X-chromosome is the female, and Y is the male one. That's why the females most likely able to reproduce (if the X-chromosome is damaged / mutated, they still have an another one )

Your second quoted thought is interesting on it's own to begin with, since you could either say, no matter who the mother is, the child is always different, or the children always look exactly like it's mother  

Scientific Fact No. 5 - DNA Error Checking Proves Evolution is Wrong
[...]

If that wouldn't work, you couldn't use your DNA to find your relatives

Scientific Fact No. 6 - Chaos From Organization Proves Evolution is Wrong
[...]Complex live organisms cannot rearrange themselves into an organism of a higher form as claimed by evolutionists.[...]

Ahh, so if you are damaged, you won't heal, since your cells cannot rearrange themselves. Smart.

Evolution lacks any scientific proof. Evolution is simply an empty theory.

Once again, if you say the same thing more, it won't make it true.

Scientific Fact No. 7 - Chromosome Count Proves Evolution is Wrong
[...]

If I remember well, the horse and the donkey can mate too, and also some frogs.

Scientific Fact No. 8 - Origin of Matter and Stars Proves Evolution is Wrong
[...]

Again, the "We don't know about one thing." doesn't make everything they have said false.

Scientific Fact No. 9 - Lack of Life on Mars Proves Evolution is Wrong
[...]

Since when does "habitable" means "life must exist there"?

Scientific Fact No. 10 - Radio Silence from Space Proves Evolution is Wrong
[...]

The closest star is still 4 ly away from us. Plus, just because we send out radio waves, doesn't make
1. There are other lifeforms doing the same.
2. They are not sending messages in some other way.
3. They are able to decipher our messages.
4. It has reached them.
5. It has reached us.

[wyvern]

I think this argument is pretty pointless, as neither side is gonna give way, at any rate as Gabbe said there have been spots in the solar system that could possibly be habitable.

[Gabbe]

I think this argument is pretty pointless, as neither side is gonna give way, at any rate as Gabbe said there have been spots in the solar system that could possibly be habitable.

Noones going to give up, thats not the point, the point is to make other people joining the debate to join your side, and the most reasonable side is apparently winning...

[@kukac@]

"God is dead" Nietsche
"Nietsche is dead" God
"Nietsche is God" Dead

[wyvern]

I figured I'll also mention, the Earth is not perfect, and eventually the sun will expand enough to dry up or engulf the earth, and I do not think God would want that

[ElimiNator]

Maybe that is when the end of the world will come?

[Gabbe]

and we have a 2012 fantasy here?

[-Archmage-]

Gabbe, have you seen The Case for a Creator yet?

Kukac I'm going to ignore you, I now understand why you believe in Evolution, because you don't understand logic.

[Gabbe]

Gabbe, have you seen The Case for a Creator yet?

As i sent back my destroyed copy, ill have to wait for another one, it`ll come, but you have the movie, quote something for me ??

[Omega]

and we have a 2012 fantasy here?

Stupid myans know nothing. 2012 is a bunch of bull.

Gabbe, have you seen The Case for a Creator yet?

Dunno what that even is. Could you summarize?

[-Archmage-]

A movie providing scientific evidence for a creator, Omega, you'd love it!

@Gabbe: Just wait and watch the movie.  

[John.d.h]

I'm pretty sure the world ended for the Mayans a long time ago.

With the bird thing, finally Arch has posted something worthwhile.  However, I saw a rather long documentary about how they demonstrated the latest "missing link" between reptile and bird, and it kinda tore than argument to shreds.

Omega's post has definitely been the best argument for the existence of a god so far on this thread.  Props.

[modman]

Kukac I'm going to ignore you, I now understand why you believe in Evolution, because you don't understand logic.

Damn you're arrogant.  It's astounding for someone who is, hmmm, only 13 and has been a member of the forums for a little over a year.  How many times does Omega have to tell you to pipe down?

Omega, you're far more rational.  However, I would really appreciate it if we stop adding evidence to the pot and discuss whether what we have is valid.  We all must admit it is the only possible way a conclusion can be made.  Suppose for sake of argument, that Arch had posted something irrefutable on page 8.  All I would have to do is bury it with inconclusive evidence so no one notices.

So can we please rewind back to Re: Religious Debates?  If you ignore it I have no other choice but to assume you agree on every point I made in the post.

Additionally, we should not discuss evolution here.  The appropriate place is the evolution debate topic I started.  Archmage, you are the moderator, so please make sure everything goes in its appropriate topic.  Otherwise, everything is a mess.

Finally, maybe instead of presenting an entire website verbatim and C&P it here, why not create a seperate topic so we can go more in depth with it there?

Right now I see several topics:

• This topic
• My evolution topic
• Everystudent.com
• Abovetopsecret.com
• Thunderf00t's "Why Do People Laugh at Creationists Part One"
• Thunderf00t's "Why Do People Laugh at Creationists Part Two"

Finally, I would like to address a disturbing argument that both Archmage and Omega swallowed whole (actually I was going to do the one about females and their eggs, but then I found a greater error!)

Scientific Fact No. 5 - DNA Error Checking Proves Evolution is Wrong

The scientific fact that DNA replication includes a built-in error checking method and a DNA repair process proves the evolutionary theory is wrong. The fact is that any attempt by the DNA to change is stopped and reversed.

Whoever wrote this obviously did not check his facts, and may even have made this up, seeing how demonstrably wrong it is.  If I regularly browned my skin in a tanning bed, there is a certain disease which I am at risk for.  Here's a clue: it's not transmitted through the air.  That's right, cancer.  Now I'm not sure how exactly our undereducated friend thinks cancer works, and why it is so dangerous, but I'll tell you now.  The gene in DNA that controls the division of cells is mutated (multiple factors increase risks.  These are called carcinogens for a reason), and the cell multiplies uncontrollably.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer#Causes
http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-cancer/causes-symptoms/causes/what-causes-cancer
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Sites-Types/general
http://www.whatcausescancer.org/

So if "any attempt by the DNA to change is stopped and reversed," I guess we wouldn't have to worry about cancer.  The truth is, there is some error checking, but it isn't foolproof.  I don't really want to take AP Bio (I hate wrote memorization; this is why I hate Spanish too), so I'm only going off my one semester biology overview course.