Religous Debates

[@kukac@]

Viruses. You really think viruses help at all, you really think that they can enhance DNA, I thought viruses made people sick, and sometimes killed them.

Then your genes weren't enough good, and you were not able to survive the evolution. However, if your body can make up an antidote, you can pass down for generations. And they will become more resistant against that kind of virus, so it was helpful.

Oh wait, that's not gonna happen, since evolution does not exist! To bad, guys giving us injections don't know about this fact  

[@kukac@]

Seriously, we are not getting anywhere this way. Decoding my signature would be easier this way

[Gabbe]

This is actually very ridicolous...


Complete idiot christian.

[wyvern]

Where did that creator being come from then,

Answer me Arch

[Gabbe]

Where did that creator being come from then,

Answer me Arch

He keeps getting on with the random [Censored - @kukac@], he aint going to answer you.

[wyvern]

I know but I would like an answer and not dodging the point

[Gabbe]

Well, watch the two last videos, they show the ridicolousness of christians.

[-Archmage-]

Where did that creator being come from then

We're talking about a guy who created the universe, and me(maybe not my soul though), so telling you where God came from would be pretty much impossible as a Human, you'd have to ask him, and I have no clue how you would do that as a Human.

Your totally owned by China, they are just under you military, and military doesn`t matter as long as both china and india has the nukes to destory the world 1000 times...And china owns you economically, however, im glad we have the americans to destroy the terrorists, and kill of any threat to the civilized western world.

That's because of Obama.
And no, the American military is far far far more powerful that the Chinese military, if they attacked us, we could wipe them off the planet in an action of self-defense.

Our ecosystem could been screwed.

Yes, and if our extremely complicated ecosystem had been developed by evolution, then the chances of the ecosystem fitting together so well the way it does now would be minimal.

How was the creator created?

Again, only God would know that.

But of course a question like that for Evolutionists would be devastating!

Where did your molecules and whatever caused the Big Bang come from?
And where did the universe with physical properties, that would allow for whatever caused the Big Bang, to cause the Big Bang come from?

Complete idiot christian.

Typical of atheists to pick on the people that aren't well suited for a debate about evolution.


You guys should really read: The Greatest Hoax on Earth?
It's by Johnathan Sarfati, if you want to know stuff about just look it up, and my Dad is reading it now, I show his these arguments and he tells me about how much of the stuff you're using against Creation, is covered in Johnathan Sarfati's The Greatest Hoax on Earth. Modman, I'd be willing to buy you a copy of it, that's how much I recommend it, especially to you, because it's a very well-written and complicated book, something I think you would be able to understand better than Kukac or Gabbe(also considering that English is not their main language).

[Gabbe]

Chinese Military Ability vs. American Military Ability

Many people ask who would win a war, the Chinese or the Americans; I will now answer that question. First off, China has a much larger army (possible that the number lies somewhere around 2.4 million) than that of the United States (less than 2 million). China also has nuclear capability but only has a known amount of twenty ballistic missiles with intercontinental range where as the United States has over 2,000 nuclear weapons with the ability to hit any location on the planet.

The Chinese has a low technological development as most of the weaponry they utilize is imported from Russia. The Chinese main armored vehicle, which is numbered above 8,000 units, is the T-55 main battle tank. Chinese have a number of total armored vehicles near 10,100, including their new T-96 main battle tanks which may not be deployed until the many flaws are fixed. China’s T-55 tanks are over 40 years old and require massive amounts of money to repair.

Chinese air power is measured to be around 4,350 aircraft which are also out of date. Their newest fighter aircraft are the Russian Mig-29s or the Russian Su- 47s. Information about the Chinese military is not completely known or publicly shown; so much information about this topic is disputed. The main Chinese fighter is the 1970 Russian Mig-19. The Chinese do not invest much of their budget in air power, so during any attack on Chinese territory, the Chinese will lose all air actions.

China does have a navy with submarines. The Chinese are not building a navy, but they are selling older vessels to purchase newer Russian ships and submarines. The Chinese have only about 1,000 ships which are still outdated by American standards. The newest aircraft carrier in the Chinese navy is equivalent to America’s WWII aircraft carriers.

America has a much more modern military: Our newest main battle tanks are called the M1A2 Abrams. These tanks are the heaviest in the world, weighing in at over 72 tons. Each M1 tank has a 120 mm smoothbore cannon that can fire either rounds that explode on impact (HEAT) or rounds that act like an arrow with no explosive charge (sabot). America soldiers are equipped with modern body armor that can protect the wearer against 7.62 mm bullets. The American military also issues camouflage for the terrain, M-16A2 assault rifles with a M203 grenade launcher underneath the barrel, M4A1 assault rifles for special operations soldiers, and has armored personal carriers that can survive .50 caliber bullets. The Chinese offer no body armor and no camouflage.

The American air force just released the new F/A- 22 Raptor fighter aircraft with stealth ability; this means that the Raptor is nearly invisible to radar. The Raptor can also fire a missile at a target over fourteen miles away and just turn around knowing that the missile will not miss the target. F/A-35 aircraft are also new to the year of 2006. the F/A- 35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) comes in three different versions: The air force version which takes off of a runway carrying more weapons, the navy version that can be launched from an aircraft carrier, and the marine version that can takeoff and land vertically.

America has the largest and most advanced navy on the planet. Nuclear-powered submarines that carry nuclear missiles are called “Boomers.” Boomers remain underwater for over six months; there are nine boomers out at sea at the same time while nine other boomers are being maintained at their docks. America nuclear-powered aircraft carriers are the largest ships in the world; they carry a range of aircraft that can strike any target of any kind in any place on the planet. Destroyer ships are equipped with various missiles which can target and destroy aircraft, ships, submarines, and land targets.

If a war was to break out between China and America, nuclear weapons would not be used. If China would to launch a nuclear missile at the United States, he radioactive dust would drift with the wind right into China’ s major cities along the coast. If America would to launch nuclear missiles, China would respond by firing theirs, which just lead to more Chinese deaths. America is located at a great pace because wind blows west towards China, so nuclear weapons would damage both countries.

China has very little allies and many enemies. North and South Korea hate China, Taiwan has been in a cold war with China for a long time, Mongolia does not like China, Russia wants Shanghai harbor within Chinese territory (Shanghai does not freeze in the winter, and Russia has most of its factories located near the Chinese border), India has not been in good relations with China because of several military “accidents,” European countries do not like China, and America and all of America’s allies hate China because of communism. You can be sure that Russia would help America fight against China, the United Kingdom and Australia would help America, and most European countries would help out America too. China might get some help from countries that are nearby and afraid of nuclear weapons, but they may not be that powerful anyway.

In the end, the one with the most friends will win. America would beat China and distribute its territory to allies in the area in exchange for free or cheap oil. If a war ever does break out, we would not have to worry about too much, as China is too old to fight.

I wrote this a while ago. Most of it is now out-of-date, but I don't care.
__________________
I think, therefore I am a concentrated machine of displaying thought and emotion with the ability to "think outside the box," rebel against any rule, and have natural rights to freedom of speech and the right to never be a slave of anything; not even death can stop me from this!

from another forum. this diguission ends now.

We're talking about a guy who created the universe, and me(maybe not my soul though), so telling you where God came from would be pretty much impossible as a Human, you'd have to ask him, and I have no clue how you would do that as a Human.

God has no evidence, therefore he doesnt exist. god is irrelevant, its the creator we want to know something about.

Typical of atheists to pick on the people that aren't well suited for a debate about evolution.

She called that show, she wanted in a debate, she lost totally, why we make fun of christians is because theyr so tragic sad that it is laughable. after the caller went on, they talked about if that call was legit or not, i think it is, there are afterall enough dumb people out there. Why do you talk about us making fun of "i belive though i have no evidence for it" people, when you make fun of us without reason.

All you say is that

"It`s obivious"

Without any claims at all, thats a great evidence for creation NOT

Watch this.


Before any of your claims matter you must proove god.

[Gabbe]

Theists don`t care if theyr wrong, Atheists do. Here is my back-up

[Zoythrus]

Gabbe, we Christians are not idiots. If it werent for Christians, America wouldnt exist.

And there is a God. He is alive and quite well, but you just seem so wrapped up in ignorance that you cant see Him.

[Gabbe]

See nr 8

[-Archmage-]

Gabbe, about the American military, that article is out-of-date.

Our military could defeat the whole world at once, nuclear weapons could be shot down if shot at us, we also have missiles so accurate that we can put one down a chimney. I don't think the entire world against us would stand a chance.


Back on topic:

*facepalm*

Gabbe, evolution is not random, nothing is.
Evolution is worse, it's relying upon damaging things to hopefully do some good.

A belief in a creator is perfectly logical, I call him "God", because I don't want to say "a Creator" all the time(and because that's what most other people call him), I now realize that saying "a Creator" would be better.
It's completely undisputable that the universe has a creator. What you don't realize is that life needs a creator, and if you watch "The Case for a Creator" you will surely understand why life couldn't have started without a creator. I know that you want me to quote the video, but sorry, the visual graphics and talking fit together, giving you the talking would be kinda stupid without the graphics. BTW, Gabbe, did you get the movie yet?

THe reason I say random mutations is because you're relying on damaging things(radiation, viruses, transposons, DNA errors, etc...) to get you positive changes. The chances of that happening are very very bad. So by saying random mutations I'm making your chances look better than they actually are.

[Gabbe]

call it damage if you want. 70% of mutations are bad 15% good 15% neutral.

We still have factors, these are the following:

The bad mutation only happens on one individual.
A specie usually consist of larger groups, i just estimate 5 million? change this number if you want
The good mutations are likely to pass on to the next generation. lets say 6,5% of the good mutations survive
The neutral ones are still neutral and will not affect the specie in any way.
Divide the 6,5% of the good mutations on 5 million.
Then we have 0,0000013% good mutations if one good mutation happens.
The 70% bad mutations Will probably have half of them survive.
35% bad mutations die off.
35 divided with 5 million.
0,000007% off the specie population die off with bad mutations
0,000007% off the specie population survive.
0,000002% with mutations in total survive.
2:7 that the the mutations will occur witht he whole specie.

Then the 6,5 % of good mutations will replicate, and most species replicate atleast four new individuals. and it is required 2 of the same specie to reproduce.
Then after one generation it would double the species with the good mutation.

This math is complicated, what if we joined forces and gathered information to solve the problem? I assume you also want to know the truth.

What we need of information is:

How many generations will it take for speciation to occur

What we have is:

70% of the mutations occuring are bad, but we don`t knwo the amount of individuals getting mutations.
15% of the mutations are good, but we don`t know the amount of individuals getting mutations
15% of the mutations are neutral, but we don`t know the amount of individuals getting mutations
It isn`t likely every bad mutation die off, so we can maybe divide that number with 2
It isn`t likely all of the good mutations will survive, lets take 2:3 of that number since it is more likely for those mutations to survive.
The neutral mutations stay neutral and don`t change.
We can assume that the specie have 5 million in population, if im not correct, feel free to talk to me about it.

X:5 billion?

This will give us the number of mutations occuring with the specie after one generation

then we must find out how many of the mutations are bad and how many are good.

Once we have that we must find out how many generations it would take for the specie to speciate and become two seperate species.

Then we must find out how much time we have.

Then find out how much time it would take to produce all the species at earth.

If it adds up we`re right
If it doesn`t add up your right creationists

Deal?

[-Archmage-]

I'm calling it damage because it is!

Besides, you would need a lot longer than 4 billion years to Evolve anything close to a Human.
4 billion years is not an eternity, and even if 15% of mutations were helpful(which very obviously isn't true, if you read up on the causes of mutations), it would take forever!
You would have to have massive miracle leaps of changes if you're to make a Human, besides you simply have to acknowledge the fact that we are not evolving now, and I don't see any reason we would've been 3 billion years ago.

I'm going to go read up on the Cambrian Explosion.......

[Gabbe]

So you won`t help me do the math?

And you ahven`t done it before?

Your simply making decision out of nowhere?

[-Archmage-]

The math has been done.

And there is no way that we right now could calculate the math.

[Zoythrus]

i dont think that the math matters.

[-Archmage-]

Zoythrus the math matters.

[1purplecow]

In a nutshell, this part of the debate is stating "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."  But that leaves out yo children--they won't be immuned to the sickness that you did (mainly because new viruses are constantly being created) but that advances nothing--it only slightly changes one particular human body. 

[1purplecow]

I don't think an immunity to one's sick-week saves it for future generations.  take smallpox for example . . . people still get them.

[Zoythrus]

when i said that math doesnt matter, i meant that neither God nor random evolution had to calculate the chances of things happening.

[Gabbe]

That is because you know that god wouldn't stand up to the math.
You're Christian, Arch isn't, therefore the math matters to him because I already know he seeks the truth. Not more basement for his religion. Theists don't care if they're wrong, look the video: "theists, smarter than atheists?"

[-Archmage-]

I'm sorta a Christian, but not a religious one.

I've always hated religion, loved science

[Gabbe]

Your a creationist, that defines someone not christian beliving in creation.

About that less than 50% belive in evolution,

45% belive in evolution
40% belive in creation
15% belive nothing, have not heard of any, or do not care

This was for America only.