Religous Debates

[wyvern]

The films are Awful, , such people should be shot.

[Gabbe]

I know, i would say, kill all islams so they will not perceed with the sharia law or any other activity of theirs, look here, noo blood, but i cannot garauntee against nightmares:

[jda]

The films are Awful, , such people should be shot.

I know, i would say, kill all islams so they will not perceed with the sharia law or any other activity of theirs, look here, noo blood, but i cannot garauntee against nightmares:

Guys... that doesn't really help.

And those videos... had points ... and pitfalls.
"you can't start a fire and you expect to take over the world? - LMAO"
Now that was really lame (not to mention the whole video that would have been just as funny with no narration, no captions and a simple title).
Who said "they want to to take over the world"?  

Loose facts:
The current President to the European Comission, José Barroso, former Minister for Foreign Affairs in Portugal (and later Prime Minister) of which I am a citizen stated on the press inquiring (just for ratings as usual) about Portugal selling bullets to Iraq before the first Gulf War in 1991, more or less this "I didn't have the time to read every document I was asked to sign, I just signed it without knowing what it was!".
1. Arsehole.
2. Everyone in the Western world was selling arms to the Iraq before the first Gulf war... And to it's enemy Iran too! Actually, we were all very happilly in Europe and the North America selling armament to most every country in the Middle East and Africa. Most of us still are to one or the other.
Oh but do we miss the good ol' days of the Cold War when we would have them guys fight each other ... and sell' em weapons of personel and mass destruction... All for a perfectly good cause, of course, be it Communism or Capitalism, who cares? We just need to keep this balance of power going steady to keep selling 'em weapons to fight the war we don't want to fight ourselves (nor do really care about)...
Well... even a great lie such as that can't go on forever so... let's end that... Anyways... we've been having them fight for so long now they don't even need an ideal, good ol' way back rooted hatred will do just fine...  

Did we all forget about this?... Or instead took words like "I didn't know what I was signing" as any relevant to the real questions?...

Did we forget that after we Westerners killed millions of Jews in Europe we thought they should have a place of their own... somewhere else, say the Middle East?...

Man, us westerners really screw up the world pretty good, don't we?... And I mean "the world", not just our own countries or the little people in them...
/OT

And yes, fanatic religion (or most anything else "fanatic") is ... well ... is there a word for it?...  

[Gabbe]

mhm, muslims, if they care so much for aaalaaahhh why dont they jst go and fuck someone then say that they gave the world a child of islam, the religion of "peace"....

If anyone could defend islam, sorry, but defending terrorists and yeah..uhm...

[jda]

I'm not defending terrorism.
But I am saying it's hypocritical to acuse them of wanting to do something we've been doing: take over the world.
Even if they do want to take over the world... WE are holding that position. And I don't believe you can convince me that's a morally correct position to hold.
It is nonetheless in our nature.

So yeah, they're **insult** for wanting it. But we are no better. So... if you want to be coherent, just keep *** them over and admit that's what you want to do.

We are no better to them than they are to us. We are stronger than them though. So there, stop the bloody whining.

EDIT: To wyvern and to you I am just saying "kill them all" is not a sollution (or a need really, unless you feel guilty and need to purge yourself by killing someone worse than you).

[Gabbe]

I feel guilty for us sending our soldiers to protect me and then watch them die on TV + let in the people were trying to hold out. I feel resposibility to those soldiers in the Iraq and middle east that die for us, then we let those muslim a**holes in without saying a thing. The muslims do not provide anything! I am afraid to paint ugly pictures of the pedophil prophet muhammad, because i got muslims in my neighbourhood wanting to stab me if i do so. I am not afraid of painting ugly paintings of jesus, caus ei know christians won`t stab me if theyr not mentally ill or something. I feel angry at them for oppressing free speech, i feel sad for them to be human like me, yet to kill innocent people and then pray to god, and get a reward for it too! I feel happy that their whole nation is at the brink of destruction! I feel to nuke their asses so hard theyll not have a chance to survive! i know, we cant nuke cause the worlds gonna die...

Basically, i feel for crushing the whole of muslims to pure dust and then laugh at the religion so hard i`ll probably die. Don`t blame me, they started it, i didn`t tell them to go insane and awake the sleeping giant. Muslims, the sharia, any thing related to that religion is way worse than christianity. I hate those bastards for actually being alive, it is an insult to say that they deserve it. They actually deserve the thing called hell, i did not tell em to do things that would make me think that about them. Guess what, its their fault, purely, if they had not done it, i wouldn`t hate them, they knew that we would hate them when they started killing people, they knew the consequences, they are the ones doing the bad things, i can`t do anything about the way i feel for them, THEY started it, THEY can`t fix it, THEY deserve according to me, eternal torture and burning in hell, if it ever existed. I don`t care for the "moderate muslims" if they tell me their just as good as any christian, no, they also deserves it, if they ever listened to what the Koran said, they`ll convert immeidately, but no, they are preechign their asses of, then their little brainwashed minds are saying it to be holy and true, liek what the hell? How can ANYONE EVER defend such thing? Christianity transformed into western values, we don`t torture any more, if not completely nesesarry, we do not kill civilians, but i dare to say that we have the RIGHT to kill islamics and their country and everything. THEY ARE THE ONES DOING THE BAD THINGS! we don`t halfway bury women and then throw rocks on them till they die. IF YOU ARE MUSLIM YOU ARE EVIL!

Those bastards even dare to migrate illegal into Norway after shouting in the streets in their homeland that "NORWAY you wil pay! DENMARK you will pay!" How can we ever allow them even to get near our border?

[wyvern]

I'm not saying kill them all, but they have no right to impose their beliefs on others, if they want islam they can have it in the middle east but they can't bring it and try to impose it on others.

[Gabbe]

The Koran tells em to impose it on us, Free speech/free rights vs Immoral bastards, who wins? sorry, but they can`t have their beliefs.

[Zoythrus]

well, Gabbe, for once i can agree with you. Islam is a religion of bondage and fear. they serve Allah solely because they will be killed if they dont. as we all know, i'm a Christian, i serve a God who doesnt force us to serve Him (but He does say that serving Him will make life better). Our God doesnt say, "well, all my slaves, i want you to kill anyone who doesnt like me; they deserve to go to Hell." If He hated us all, He wouldnt have tried to be our friend.

The main problem i have with Islam (besides the bondage and fear thing) is that Allah doenst love anyone. He only allows believers to survive. Allah does not (nor ever did) have man's best interest in mind. He doesnt care if his people die, he just wants to see the "infidels" (like me) die...

[jda]

First of all, let's get this straight:
Just 'cause some asshole puts a 'moderate mulsim' caption on some radical muslim face, it doesn't make the said radical moderate.
Actually, if it was the said radical himself who called himself moderate... it still doesn't make him moderate.
Agreed?

Now, on your first paragraph (on your former post), the only thing I read that actually gives you a right to fight back was:

I am afraid to paint ugly pictures of the pedophil prophet muhammad, because i got muslims in my neighbourhood wanting to stab me if i do so. (snip) I feel angry at them for oppressing free speech

Still, how the heck does that justify this (also from your first paragraph):

I feel to nuke their asses so hard theyll not have a chance to survive!

???  

Less relevant:

I feel happy that their whole nation

What "whole nation" are you talking about?

i feel sad for them to be human like me, yet to kill innocent people and then pray to god, and get a reward for it too!

What reward?

Basically, i feel for crushing the whole of muslims to pure dust and then laugh at the religion so hard i`ll probably die. Don`t blame me, they started it, i didn`t tell them to go insane and awake the sleeping giant. Muslims, the sharia, any thing related to that religion is way worse than christianity. I hate those bastards for actually being alive, it is an insult to say that they deserve it. They actually deserve the thing called hell, i did not tell em to do things that would make me think that about them. Guess what, its their fault, purely, if they had not done it, i wouldn`t hate them, they knew that we would hate them when they started killing people, they knew the consequences, they are the ones doing the bad things, i can`t do anything about the way i feel for them, THEY started it, THEY can`t fix it, THEY deserve according to me, eternal torture and burning in hell, if it ever existed. I don`t care for the "moderate muslims" if they tell me their just as good as any christian, no, they also deserves it, if they ever listened to what the Koran said, they`ll convert immeidately, but no, they are preechign their asses of, then their little brainwashed minds are saying it to be holy and true, liek what the hell? How can ANYONE EVER defend such thing? Christianity transformed into western values, we don`t torture any more, if not completely nesesarry, we do not kill civilians, but i dare to say that we have the RIGHT to kill islamics and their country and everything. THEY ARE THE ONES DOING THE BAD THINGS! we don`t halfway bury women and then throw rocks on them till they die. IF YOU ARE MUSLIM YOU ARE EVIL!

Now this is just a load of crap.
Back when we were burning "wiches" alive, and doing all sorts of not at all more pleasant things than those currently being done in some islamic countries, we had the exact same religion that is still dominant in our countires nowadays.
Blame their religion if you will, I blame their culture. Not the same. Nobody nuked us to get where we are now BTW. And if they did, we'd be nowhere. Do you understand where I'm getting at?
And BTW they didn't tell you to try and control their countries in such a way that they would feel anger or hatred against "you" either.
And they knew (and cared) their actions would make us hate them as much as our ancestors knew their actions would make the islamics hate us. And erm ... this has been going on for centuries now and ... well ... it's not "purely their fault" any more it's not purelly our own, you know? It's just bloody fucked up history period.

Those bastards even dare to migrate illegal into Norway after shouting in the streets in their homeland that "NORWAY you wil pay! DENMARK you will pay!" How can we ever allow them even to get near our border?

Tell me one thing... recognise any of the faces from the videos on your neighbourhood? Are they the same actual persons?

Now a foreword: I probably won't reply again because you obviously feel too strongly about this. And I'd just be wasting my time continuing this discussion.

I'm not saying kill them all, but they have no right to impose their beliefs on others, if they want islam they can have it in the middle east but they can't bring it and try to impose it on others.

True. Can you impose Democracy on them?

Zoythrus posted while I was writing. Interestingly... I'm feeling increasingly inclined to not even check on the answers...
Here's for you, Zoythrus (EXPLICIT WORDING):

[Gabbe]

WOW, zoy! your actually one of the christians beliving that i won`t go to hell! (that indicates that you either belive i`ll go heaven or i just die)

mhm, jda, muslims and free speech/free rights are contradictions, you cannot have these together, the Koran tells you as any other holy book that you should preech about your religion, i say that they can preech as much as they want, but killing civilians and threaten me on my life, then i hate them, thats how the real world works.

[Zoythrus]

@ Gabbe: on the topic of Hell, i dont want to comment (but refer back to the thing i said about making life better by following God...)

@jda: yeah, i watched the video, and i cant believe that he could be so mislead.

I know that God exists, want more proof? ok, let's talk about morals. yes, morals; the right and wrong that everyone talks about. if we had evolved from animals, we would have no morals; we would be a bunch of indifferent, thoughtless creatures. now, maybe we did evolve morals, but the only things that we would think of is everything we were told not to do (jealousy, hate, contempt, lust, selfishness, etc). if we evolved from animals, then we would think like an animal - what can i do to benefit me? animals only think about themselves, what they will eat, where they will sleep, etc. if we thought like this, it would be commonplace to be so selfish; no one would talk about morals, they wouldnt exist. answer me this, do you have to teach your kids how to be jealous? do you tell them to steal from people? if we were taught to be selfish, then we would not care to think of others. these "good" things would be looked down upon in society.  

then, if being selfish is the "right" thing to do, why are we taught to do good and are punished for doing evil? why do we feel bad in ourselves when we do wrong? evolution by very nature would insist that what we consider to be "right" is wrong, but society says otherwise.

only God could have implanted morals in us.

[Gabbe]

The vids just sayin..

Im sure my cat likes to be with me, its a reason it follows me all around my garden for nothing every single day

You can`t really give god credit for our society though, cause it developed alot longer before religion was even a idea

I know that God exists, want more proof

PS. thats not proof, lets stick to the evidence here okay?

[Zoythrus]

most of that video was taken out of context. one of the reasons God commanded the Israelites to kill so many people is because He knew that they're beliefs would taint His people. He wanted their religion wiped out because the Israelites would have stumbled, and God would have had to pour His wrath upon them (again). God made promises (which He always keeps) to Jacob, Abraham, and the rest that He would take care of their children. He was looking for their best interests.

Also, God gave rules to the Israelites, and they promised to follow them. When they didnt, God would put them back on track. He knew that by following His rules (morals), that they would have prospered.

When Jesus came to earth, one of His jobs was to bring in the New Covenant. The New Covenant states that Jesus was to take the punishment for all of mankind's sins. Man no longer had to fear God's wrath, because Jesus paid the price (the perfect offering to God).

[Gabbe]

taint

?

When they didnt, God would put them back on track

How?

God made promises (which He always keeps) to Jacob, Abraham, and the rest that He would take care of their children. He was looking for their best interests.

I want a brand new gaming rig now, and i have debth to pay, can god give me money?

mhm, how was it out of context about the rape incest and infanticide?

[jda]

mhm, jda, muslims and free speech/free rights are contradictions, you cannot have these together, the Koran tells you as any other holy book that you should preech about your religion, i say that they can preech as much as they want, but killing civilians and threaten me on my life, then i hate them, thats how the real world works.

If your neighbours threaten your life, ok, kill 'em! What do the other muslims have to do with it?  
(And no... don't kill your neighbours... besides the fact you'd go to jail... in my book, a man is still innocent til proven guilty and you can't be guilty of a crime you didn't commit yet, can you? Besides, I myself don't believe in the death penalty some of our countries still have).

@ Zoythrus
Assumptions, assumptions...
1. Animals do not "think" all the same way... Compare lion to goat for example.
2. Morals or "right and wrong" are concepts like any other, including the concept "there is no god".
3. The theoric possibility Evolutionism is wrong doesn't proove the existence of God, not even in theory.
4. Some animals are predominantly individual, others are predominantly societary. Societary animals have sanctioned "good" and sanctioned "bad" behaviours and there are actual defyances to them and actual punishments in those animal societies. We learn Good and Wrong the exact same way. Logically arguing with someone very emotionally charged is pointless 99% of the time (faith in itself carries stong emotional charge BTW).
5. Like all other societary animals, humans are societary because each individual selfishly needs the others (even just for emotional contact and exchange) which I think is much more beautiful IMO than any religious/moral view I know of it.
6. In case you haven't noticed yet... I believe humans are selfish even in spite of their social needs most of the time.

one of the reasons God commanded the Israelites to kill so many people is because He knew that they're beliefs would taint His people. He wanted their religion wiped out because the Israelites would have stumbled, and God would have had to pour His wrath upon them (again).

Do you realise how THAT IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE JIHAD?!

Jesus Christ... (am I using His name in vain )... I'm outta here... You're psyched on this subject.

[wyvern]

Muslims don't want to get democracy, they don't have to get it, but their way of life is impractical and if we don't buy their resources they will fall apart, second of all I believe that their religion promises eternal bliss, 99 virgins if you die fighting the infidel, the religion leads to radicalism, and from other sources, what Gabbes movies show is true. Allah cares for no one which is something I'll agree with Zoythrus on.

[wyvern]

Intelligent people can have morals without religion, however, in the the early middle ages when christianity took root many of the people were quite, stupid and uneducated, when a person is dumb they tend to behave bad but the threat of divine punishment meant that people were scared to loot, kill, etc.

[Zoythrus]

i would get into Christian doctrine, but you guys dont care. you will diss whatever i say, so there is no point in mentioning anything bigger than what i am saying now. now, if you actually cared (and i dont mean just saying so you can mock me more), i would tell you more of my point of view.

i am leaving this conversation (brawl), again.

later people,
Zoy

[John.d.h]

i would get into Christian doctrine, but you guys dont care. you will diss whatever i say, so there is no point in mentioning anything bigger than what i am saying now. now, if you actually cared (and i dont mean just saying so you can mock me more), i would tell you more of my point of view.

i am leaving this conversation (brawl), again.

Yeah... honestly, I think few people in this thread are mature/reasonable enough to discuss beliefs in any manner other than bashing.  (There are a few, just not very many.)

[-Archmage-]

For people who believe in evolution and human having morals: Go get a brain and think that over.
Should I get going on this one?


For people who believe in some kind of intelligence(a creator[not necessarily God from the Bible...], intelligent energy stuff[don't know what to call it], taking all possibilities with intelligence behind them), and humans having morals: Good job! You understand logic!


I'm almost thinking of writing a book about this.
I think my Dad might want to write something about this topic when he's retired, I could help him........

when a person is dumb they tend to behave bad but the threat of divine punishment meant that people were scared to loot, kill, etc.

You're picking on a piece of the crowd there bub, you're completely leaving out the honorable people would didn't do it because they knew it was wrong.
I could easily claim with total moral backup that if you evolutionists believe what you do, then the only reason you don't go out and rape people and steal, is because you might get caught and put in jail.


I'd also like to see you present the part in the genetic code where the honor in people comes from. Most people are generally pretty honorable.


So much stuff that makes person who they are, just isn't in their genetic code. If you haven't noticed, emotions 'affect' a person they don't 'control' a person.
I'm also extremely curious, why I can't stop thinking about a specific individual, where's the damn love gene for goodness sake?!


I'm going to enjoy watching you guy stumble around over these questions.
Of course I'm expecting you to slip your way out of these questions, but I'll just keep putting them in your face waiting for a good reasonable answer.

[xxcatmysteryxx]

mhm, muslims, if they care so much for aaalaaahhh why dont they jst go and fuck someone then say that they gave the world a child of islam, the religion of "peace"....

If anyone could defend islam, sorry, but defending terrorists and yeah..uhm...

actually not al people who are islam/muslium are not terrorists just the extremist who want the power. FYI there god is Allah and they are more religoius then us

and in school we're reading this book about Afghanistan but not with the war and stuff but how life was like for this one girl growing up she lost her leg and her failmliy anyways I recommend you read it, its pretty good book its called The Other Side of the Sky

[@kukac@]

i would get into Christian doctrine, but you guys dont care. you will diss whatever i say, so there is no point in mentioning anything bigger than what i am saying now. now, if you actually cared (and i dont mean just saying so you can mock me more), i would tell you more of my point of view.

i am leaving this conversation (brawl), again.

Yeah... honestly, I think few people in this thread are mature/reasonable enough to discuss beliefs in any manner other than bashing.  (There are a few, just not very many.)

Well, no one is forced to join, or even read this topic (But the mods should read every last of them  )

[Gabbe]

mhm, evolution is how most of the world works, evolution is basically changes to something, arch, describe logic and what it means.
Arch, do you belive cells duplicate? Do you belive things changes over time?

By the way arch, you are free to belive that there is something more to the human body even if you think evolution to be right. Evolution doesn`t even tell you anything about the mind. I think that the only reason your being flamed at is because you are mis informed or you have not the right information about the subject, kinda one thing but i ment to seperate things...

where's the damn love gene for goodness sake?!

people fell in love. They do so mostly because of the other individuals smell. I don`t know much about this, i have been questioning this a long time ago and i remember i foudn an answer, but i don`t remember anything else that there were something expalining that...

Basically love is the smell of your partner...

but I'll just keep putting them in your face waiting for a good reasonable answer.

Lemme do something similar...

where's the damn love gene for goodness sake?!

thats your question, heres mine...

Where`s the damn creator for goodness sake?!

[wyvern]

Guys, think about this, most creationists say that earth was created in six days, correct, now think about the order of creation, then think about the phases in which the evolutionists say the world was created. Now think,other then time wise and the first day of creation, it all matches, oceans form, animals come into the ocean, plant life comes on earth, animals come on earth, humans come on earth, the order of it is the same on both sides, and even the big bang could compare with light versus shadow, the differing things are time and God