Poll

How do you like the new 0.1.2 release compared to the former 0.1.1 ?

Much better !
0 (0%)
Better !
1 (50%)
No big change
1 (50%)
Worse .
0 (0%)
Much worse .
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 2

Voting closed: 16 July 2016, 23:17:48

Author Topic: Dwarves Aglarond 0.1.2 released !  (Read 73783 times)

-Archmage-

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #150 on: 16 April 2010, 23:49:35 »
Hey, I'm not copying Wesnoth, just getting some ideas. :P
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wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #151 on: 17 April 2010, 13:17:54 »
Hey the archmage kills dragons in one shot and that's not considered overpowered. >:( >:(
What about my flamethrower idea. :) :)

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #152 on: 17 April 2010, 13:20:12 »
Quote
archmage kills dragons in one shot

That's me! ;D



So......what about the Dragon Staff?
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wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #153 on: 17 April 2010, 13:26:37 »
Ha Ha :O :O very funny archmage, at any rate why shouldn't he have a massive attack especially if it takes long to reload.

jda

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #154 on: 17 April 2010, 14:50:56 »
@ wyvern

The Archmage does have overpower. :P

But:

1. It's got really low hp (550) whereas the Dragon slayer has (currently) 1300 and I certainly don't want to reduce that! I see the Dragon slayer as a dwarf Battlemachine with inverted weapon focus (The battlemachine's mellee-ground attack is much stronger than its ranged-air attack, the Dragon slayer is the other way around). The Dragon slayer is also considerably smaller and has a lot less HP than the Battlemachine but it's also quite cheaper even more for Dwarves who collect resources much faster than Tech.

2. The Archmage's attack targets land units too and that's what it's really meant for: knocking a bunch of size 1 units grouped together. Using such power and  splash against size 2, more commonly size 3, (usually isolated) air units would just be IMO boring. :P

3. I also compared the Dragon slayer to tech's Air ballista. The ballista is much more expensive and cannot move, its attack damage is actually lower than that of the current slayer (whose attack damage would be increased, I'd decided that already before, even without the crossbow being replaced by the Dragon staff, it will be even more with the staff). The ballista's attack is still more powerful than the slayer's because it's faster. ;)
I cannot really overpower the main anti-air unit of the Dwarves in comparison to its equivalent tech unit.

4. In fact, in another sense, the double hit = one kill attack you're proposing would be good against ONE dragon, were there TWO dragons, the slayer would just sit there unable to deliver even a single blow. So a comparetivelly faster attack even if much less powerful is much better. ;)
Do note that loading the Dragon staff through its nozzle, then putting a fuse in, then lighting it and then pointing it at the target will mean there will have to be a very high timeout between the start of the attack animation and the actual firing. Add an EP slowdown mechanism to that and you'd very seldomly get to see it attack an air unit... :P

5. Your proposal came in reply to having the statuette on the dragon staff's nozzle be made of gold maybe not being the best choiche for a high temperature producing shot. Now... I was thinking of a much less powerful attack when I asked Archmage about it. I'm definitelly sure an attack with the strength you propose would kind of double the temperature produced. Ok, this does not affect ingame mechanics which do not contemplate temperature but ... visually it might be odd. :P


@ Archmage
Yeah, we're keeping the Dragon staff, it is cool and fits the Dragon slayer much better. ;)
But I'm thinking of making the statuette iron or steal and the pipe have an outer wood casing with a metallic bottom, and maybe an extra metallic ring at about the middle too. Ok?

On copying Wesnoth, I perfectly accept you don't intend to copy it but I do think you are drawing too many ideas from it.   :-\
« Last Edit: 17 April 2010, 14:55:44 by jda »

wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #155 on: 17 April 2010, 14:58:45 »
How fast is the dragon slayers attack, if it's slow then it wouldn't have to have ep, on the other hand it should still keep the high attack.

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #156 on: 17 April 2010, 15:05:45 »
Ok....
You decide the stuff then Jda.
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wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #157 on: 17 April 2010, 15:11:57 »
Does anybody have a reply to my flamethrower idea :o :o

jda

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #158 on: 18 April 2010, 21:24:23 »
How fast is the dragon slayers attack, if it's slow then it wouldn't have to have ep, on the other hand it should still keep the high attack.
The Slayer's attack is slow and was slow before my comment on high temperature vs gold. :P

Ok....
You decide the stuff then Jda.
Ok.
I haven't even textured the battleaxe yet because I'm still looking for a good and apropriatelly licensed dark wood (preferably wenge but could be ebony too) license. I found a good wenge pic on Wikipedia (no less!) but it's under CC-SA 2.5, whereas we're using 3.0. I'm not sure whether or not we can release a derivative of that work under the same license but with a different version of it (I actually considered writing to the author and ask him if he doesn't want to update the licensing but that would likely take a good while).
Still... i'm not sure... I was thinking of doing most of the blade black metal with silverish edges but have the stick/handle be the said dark wood; the weight at the end would be the same black metal as above.
I have everything but the wood texture; what do you think I texture the stick with the black metal texture too?

Does anybody have a reply to my flamethrower idea :o :o
The flamethrower on top of the Outrider? I'm afraid it won't fit.
The outrider's weaponry and attacks are defined already. They are not the ones currently in Aglarond 0.1.1 but the final ones have been set upon:
1. Normal attack with halberd.
2. Charge attack with rhynox horns.
That's it and that's final. ;)

If you're suggesting a different unit than the outrider, an outrider (that would be named differently) armed with a flamethrower, then again: No.
If we were to add yet another mounted unit (which is unlikely too) that would probablly a very different one, a really fast one with the already mentioned warponey or biggoat. ;)

wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #159 on: 18 April 2010, 21:44:15 »
Ok thats fine with me.

jda

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #160 on: 20 April 2010, 23:28:22 »
Guys, I'm having a problem with the current Dragon slayer blend I have - when exported to G3D, g3d_viewer will crash when trying to open it (I know this is a problem with the G3D file, not the viewer).
Here's the folder with the said version:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9454d43357b12a907432d3c9683f450a53823a80d13bf2d679b5ba589d1986ba
(there's also a new .tga for, currently only, the battleaxe; BTW, it's not completed, the lighter shade of the blade just sucks now).

So, if anyone can tell me what's wrong with that blend, please do tell me!  :angel:

@ Archmage
I think I'll wait for you to finish the dragon staff model and before I texture it. Before I proposed the "load-and-fire like a mortar" mechanism, you said you still had to think about the trigger... So before texturing it, I'd like to see how it fires, so I can figure out what parts it needs to have. ;)

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #161 on: 21 April 2010, 00:25:28 »
I'm sorry, my mind is being taken up by a lot of other thoughts, I'm starting to forget exactly what we're working on in dwarfs, and re-reading doesn't help.
Jda, just tell me what to do, I've got quite an active mind and don't really ever think about this... :-[

Edit: All I did was delete the thingy on the dragon slayer, where it specifies the texture location, exported and it worked fine. :thumbup:
So you must have a wrong location set. :bomb:
« Last Edit: 21 April 2010, 00:34:37 by -Archmage- »
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wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #162 on: 21 April 2010, 01:58:55 »
Sorry for the my annoying suggestions but I just got another one what if the dwarves had a defense tower with a gatling gun style weapon mounted on top. It could have two man crew one rotating and firing the gun with a match and the other muzzle loading the empty barrels. It would have faster firepower but obviously would be stationary another option would be an organ gun. If it doesn't fit thats fine but still its an idea. :) :) :)

jda

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #163 on: 21 April 2010, 08:27:23 »
I'm sorry, my mind is being taken up by a lot of other thoughts, I'm starting to forget exactly what we're working on in dwarfs, and re-reading doesn't help.
That's ok, we're here for the fun of  modding, so... I'll be happy you contribute just as much as you are available for/willing to. ;)

Quote
Jda, just tell me what to do, I've got quite an active mind and don't really ever think about this... :-[
Ok, I'll finish what I'm doing in the slayer and then get it back to you with orders! ;D  :scientist:

Quote
Edit: All I did was delete the thingy on the dragon slayer, where it specifies the texture location, exported and it worked fine. :thumbup:
So you must have a wrong location set. :bomb:
The location was correct, it was just the same folder the g3d was on (I checked "Relative Path" on the "Load Texture" dialog) but as you told me the problem was the linking to the texture, I tried relinking and then relinking to other textures and eventually it came to my mind: I must have saved in GIMP with the regular "Save" (which means the file will be compressed by default) instead of "Save as..." which gives you the option to uncheck compression (Glest needs UNcompressed .tga's)... Problem solved, thanks! :)  :thumbup:


Sorry for the my annoying suggestions
Your suggestions are NOT annoying, wyvern!
I'm actually going to credit you in some future release (probably only 0.3 but maybe on 0.2 already, have to check the posts and what wil be on on 0.2) for contributing ideas and inspiration! ;) John.d.h will be credited this way too. :)
Still, some of your ideas aren't either: a) UNdoable, b) fitting the already almost completed faction (which again, it was already almost finished when I picked it up) or c) something you can do fast enough for this mod to not ever get finished...
We are mainly improving the quality of the wciow's work (which is time consuming even if he did do a great job himself) not really adding new stuff. For example, the goat's origins are these:
- In Gimli (wciow's last release), the far did not produce unit (and wciow actually said he wouldn't change that). So far so good.
- The Warrior's Hall could be the first building to be done, it had no pre-requisites other than the Stronghold (main building which you always have at the begining).
- This allowed the Dwarves, who gather resources much faster than any other faction Magitech-compatible I know of, to very quickly start producing Warriors who are stronger than both Tech's Swordmen and Magic Daemons.
- Here's the first units you can produce with each and what you need to do before you produce the first one:
* Dwarves withOUT the goat (or currently, the borrowed Tech pig): Warrior's Hall -> Warrior
* Tech: Farm -> Barracks -> Swordman (a little weaker than Dwarf warrior)
* Magic: -> Daemon (available without even doing a building as you're given a Summoner right at the begining; but Daemons are very weak) and Initiate -> Battlemage (Battlemages are great but you'll loose a resource-collector right at the begining, when you should be focusing on gathering resources)
* Dwarves WITH goat: Farm -> Warrior's Hall -> Warrior (now the Dwarves take a little longer to start churning out Warriors, just lon enough so they can't swarm Magic-way with a unit whose HP is almost double that of the Daemon :P ).
- The goat was needed for the above requisite to building the Hall and ultimatelly the Warrior because in Gimli, the Dwarf faction would already be given a Farm to feed the basic units that are given at the start of the game. Without the farm at atart (which of course you can't have at start if you want to force the player to do a farm before you do the warrior's hall), you need to have some source of food: Hence the need for the goat, a rather uniteresting/unflashy unit which however is hugelly important for the gameplay...

All I've been telling you is why this suggestion or the other won't work for this faction. You can still suggest anytime you want. ;)
I feel you're still learning what Glest can do and what modding will work and what won't. Am I correct?

Regarding your recent suggestion:
Quote
I just got another one what if the dwarves had a defense tower with a gatling gun style weapon mounted on top. It could have two man crew one rotating and firing the gun with a match and the other muzzle loading the empty barrels. It would have faster firepower but obviously would be stationary
That won't work because Buildings don't rotate to attack, only movable units do. Building can fire in any direction but the "animation" is always the same. That's why Defense Towers and such always hide the actuall weapon holder under a roof and walls.

Quote
another option would be an organ gun. If it doesn't fit thats fine but still its an idea. :) :) :)
Erm... what's an organ gun?  :|

P.s.: If you want to practice your modelling skills, there is something I think you can do for the Dwarves. But I had asked ElimiNator to do it. I don't know if he's on it or not, probably not, but I'll have to check before.
« Last Edit: 21 April 2010, 08:58:44 by jda »

-Archmage-

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #164 on: 21 April 2010, 10:56:54 »
Quote
Quote
Jda, just tell me what to do, I've got quite an active mind and don't really ever think about this... Embarrassed
Ok, I'll finish what I'm doing in the slayer and then get it back to you with orders! Grin  Mad Scientist

 :O



Quote
Quote
Edit: All I did was delete the thingy on the dragon slayer, where it specifies the texture location, exported and it worked fine. Thumb Up
So you must have a wrong location set. Bomb
The location was correct, it was just the same folder the g3d was on (I checked "Relative Path" on the "Load Texture" dialog) but as you told me the problem was the linking to the texture, I tried relinking and then relinking to other textures and eventually it came to my mind: I must have saved in GIMP with the regular "Save" (which means the file will be compressed by default) instead of "Save as..." which gives you the option to uncheck compression (Glest needs UNcompressed .tga's)... Problem solved, thanks! Smile  Thumb Up

Oh, well I gave you something to work from anyway. :D



Quote
Quote
I just got another one what if the dwarves had a defense tower with a gatling gun style weapon mounted on top. It could have two man crew one rotating and firing the gun with a match and the other muzzle loading the empty barrels. It would have faster firepower but obviously would be stationary
That won't work because Buildings don't rotate to attack, only movable units do. Building can fire in any direction but the "animation" is always the same. That's why Defense Towers and such always hide the actuall weapon holder under a roof and walls.

Funny how, I can think of two methods to achieve his idea. :P



Quote
Quote
another option would be an organ gun. If it doesn't fit thats fine but still its an idea. Smile Smile Smile
Erm... what's an organ gun?  No Opinion

 :O :look:
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wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #165 on: 21 April 2010, 14:24:34 »
Quote
P.s.: If you want to practice your modelling skills, there is something I think you can do for the Dwarves. But I had asked ElimiNator to do it. I don't know if he's on it or not, probably not, but I'll have to check before.
I would be happy to accept if eliminator decides to stop work on whatever he's working on right now.

The organ gun is an old fashioned weapon that include anywhere from 8 to 35 gun barrels mounted on a cannon carriage. in the case of too many guns they would be stacked on top of each other and fired from behind they were loaded like standard muzzle loading firearms, in general it was an early machine gun. And I thought that since the dwarves have a bombard they could also have an organ gun for rapid fire probably based on ep as the reloading would take a while.

jda

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #166 on: 22 April 2010, 08:58:08 »
Quote
Quote
Jda, just tell me what to do, I've got quite an active mind and don't really ever think about this... Embarrassed
Ok, I'll finish what I'm doing in the slayer and then get it back to you with orders! Grin  Mad Scientist

 :O
And I also expect you to follow my orders thouroughly>:( ;D

Quote
Quote
Quote
Edit: All I did was delete the thingy on the dragon slayer, where it specifies the texture location, exported and it worked fine. Thumb Up
So you must have a wrong location set. Bomb
The location was correct, it was just the same folder the g3d was on (I checked "Relative Path" on the "Load Texture" dialog) but as you told me the problem was the linking to the texture, I tried relinking and then relinking to other textures and eventually it came to my mind: I must have saved in GIMP with the regular "Save" (which means the file will be compressed by default) instead of "Save as..." which gives you the option to uncheck compression (Glest needs UNcompressed .tga's)... Problem solved, thanks! Smile  Thumb Up

Oh, well I gave you something to work from anyway. :D
Yes, you did. Thanks! :)

Quote
Quote
Quote
I just got another one what if the dwarves had a defense tower with a gatling gun style weapon mounted on top. It could have two man crew one rotating and firing the gun with a match and the other muzzle loading the empty barrels. It would have faster firepower but obviously would be stationary
That won't work because Buildings don't rotate to attack, only movable units do. Building can fire in any direction but the "animation" is always the same. That's why Defense Towers and such always hide the actuall weapon holder under a roof and walls.

Funny how, I can think of two methods to achieve his idea. :P
Great! Care to post a small description of each of those two methods? ;) ;)

Quote
Quote
Quote
another option would be an organ gun. If it doesn't fit thats fine but still its an idea. Smile Smile Smile
Quote
Erm... what's an organ gun?  No Opinion

 :O :look:
Yeah, I wikipediaed (that sounds funny! :O ) for it afterwards. :P


Quote
P.s.: If you want to practice your modelling skills, there is something I think you can do for the Dwarves. But I had asked ElimiNator to do it. I don't know if he's on it or not, probably not, but I'll have to check before.
I would be happy to accept if eliminator decides to stop work on whatever he's working on right now.
I just PM'ed him, I really had no time to do so yesterday.

Quote
The organ gun is an old fashioned weapon that include anywhere from 8 to 35 gun barrels mounted on a cannon carriage. in the case of too many guns they would be stacked on top of each other and fired from behind they were loaded like standard muzzle loading firearms, in general it was an early machine gun. And I thought that since the dwarves have a bombard they could also have an organ gun for rapid fire probably based on ep as the reloading would take a while.
For what I could gather of it on the wikipedia, it's advantage over a regular one-barrel gun was that it could hit several targets in "one" shot. That's not really useful in Glest because... Glest lets hit only one target at once. Making it slower to reload wouldn't really make it work very well as a defense tower IMO.
Unless Archmage can work around Glest's one shot, one target mechanics too. :P

The gantling gun you described on the other hand would be really a whole lot better than the current defense tower we have. Assuming Archmage can really make it work / animate it apropriatelly, could you make the changes to the current defense tower?
Before you actually do it, please note:
1. Archmage may have misunderstood my point (it happens, we're only human :P ). So... I actually need to hear his ideas.
2. To be implemented, that will be only on 0.3. The work Elim might be doing (or not, in which case you could have a go) will be for 0.2, so that has priority. ;)

EDIT:
Oh, wait, I remembered something: Tech's Air Balista!
It's unmovable but it does rotate to fire at the target! It has a "Move" skill with speed=0 and no "Move" command. So... I guess that could work... ;D  8)
Out of curiosity, what's your other idea, Archmage?
« Last Edit: 22 April 2010, 11:02:18 by jda »

-Archmage-

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #167 on: 22 April 2010, 11:19:10 »
Quote
Quote from: -Archmage- on April 21, 2010, 08:01:42
Quote
Quote
Jda, just tell me what to do, I've got quite an active mind and don't really ever think about this... Embarrassed
Ok, I'll finish what I'm doing in the slayer and then get it back to you with orders! Grin  Mad Scientist

 Laughing
And I also expect you to follow my orders thouroughly!  Angry Grin

 :zzz:



Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Edit: All I did was delete the thingy on the dragon slayer, where it specifies the texture location, exported and it worked fine. Thumb Up
So you must have a wrong location set. Bomb
The location was correct, it was just the same folder the g3d was on (I checked "Relative Path" on the "Load Texture" dialog) but as you told me the problem was the linking to the texture, I tried relinking and then relinking to other textures and eventually it came to my mind: I must have saved in GIMP with the regular "Save" (which means the file will be compressed by default) instead of "Save as..." which gives you the option to uncheck compression (Glest needs UNcompressed .tga's)... Problem solved, thanks! Smile  Thumb Up

Oh, well I gave you something to work from anyway. Cheesy
Yes, you did. Thanks! Smile

 :thumbup:



Quote
Unless Archmage can work around Glest's one shot, one target mechanics too. Tongue

Sorry...



Quote
Out of curiosity, what's your other idea, Archmage?

I don't remember it anymore..........
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wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #168 on: 22 April 2010, 14:07:16 »
I thought that the gatling gun idea could be more of a improved tower, an upgrade of the original, I could draw a sketch of what I imagine it should look like :)

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #169 on: 22 April 2010, 19:15:03 »
Whoa whoa whoa, did you say Gatling gun?

Dwarven technology even in this mod, is far from gatling guns. :|
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wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #170 on: 23 April 2010, 02:38:07 »
The gatling style gun, not a real gatling gun that would be unfair ::) ::)

jda

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #171 on: 23 April 2010, 11:21:31 »
Quote
Unless Archmage can work around Glest's one shot, one target mechanics too. Tongue

Sorry...
That's ok, I would have liked to be surprised though but... :P

Quote
Quote
Out of curiosity, what's your other idea, Archmage?

I don't remember it anymore..........
:'(  :'(
Because...
I forgot something about the air ballista: the whole model is rotated and the ballista doesn't really look like a building... Having a whole stone building such as a defense tower rotate would look really really really weird... :O :(

I guess we could have a gatling gun inspired platform similar to the air ballista though.

I thought that the gatling gun idea could be more of a improved tower, an upgrade of the original, I could draw a sketch of what I imagine it should look like :)
Well, considering that using the air ballista's sollution you'd have something looking completelly different from the current dwrven defense tower, such an upgrade would look very strange.
So if we do get to overcome all the obstacles that are coming up regarding it, it would not be an upgrade. Also, I myself would prefer to not have two defense buildings so it would probably replace the current one instead of being yet another one.

Whoa whoa whoa, did you say Gatling gun?

Dwarven technology even in this mod, is far from gatling guns. :|
The gatling style gun, not a real gatling gun that would be unfair ::) ::)
Well, I can see your point, Archmage, but I think like wyvern suggested we might get to work around that problem and make it look and work apropriatelly.
But I agree this should be carefully planned and we should keep in mind it might never get implemented.

So... I guess the best option regarding this is to put it on hold til we discuss 0.4. As stated on the first post, I have a modified techtree in my mind, to be implemented then, but I'm still revieing it so my plan is to post whatever I get established after we release 0.3 and then open it up for discussion for a while til we actually get to work on the changes.
We can of course, like we've been doing already, discuss any additions and changes coming to 0.4 in the meantime.
I expect by then the gatling gun idea will have matured to a a doable level or simply have been abandoned.

Agreed? Comments?

Thanks! :)

P.S.: @ wyvern
ElimiNator replied and will be doing what I had thought you might do.
BUT...
@ ElimiNator
We're talking several buildings, so if you want help, just let wyvern know what it's about and give him something to do, ok? ;)
« Last Edit: 23 April 2010, 11:25:35 by jda »

wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #172 on: 23 April 2010, 15:37:30 »
the gatling weapon or organ gun could also be a portable weapon like a catapult but with the ability to morph and unmorph into an entrenched, stationary weapon. I don't like the idea of replacing the original defense tower because it looks really cool for the dwarf faction.

wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #173 on: 23 April 2010, 15:38:23 »
If you have work for me I'll be glad to accept

wyvern

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Re: NEW Dwarf faction release: Aglarond 0.1.1
« Reply #174 on: 23 April 2010, 15:52:39 »
I wouldn't worry about over powering the dwarves, check out the Tech mk2 faction I posted. :O :O