Bio, nano factions, Influx new mod

[pullo]

I’m planning to develop a mod using Glest engine as part of my college project. I have posted about it few months ago. My mod will go beyond simply changing the models and modifying XMLs, in fact this is the area that I will have the least of my time spent on. I want to modify the engine itself in such a way so the final game will have the features that are currently unsupported by Glest.

The game idea itself may be somewhat unusual (I can’t find anybody who’ve done something like that before), here’s the abstract from my project report: “The player will manage a colony of bacterial infection inside a human body, the goal is to spread the disease across the entire organism. The player will have to fight the immune cells as well as the nano-robots that were put there by the doctors to fight the disease.” So basically in my mod a player will be able to choose between two factions: the bacteria and nano-robots. The goal of the bacteria is to spread around the map as much as possible or just kill off all of the nano-robots. On the other hand nano-robots, which is another faction will have to kill every single bacteria to win.
Obviously the game is not going to be precise from the medial prospective. But here’s the list of the unique features that each faction will have:
Bacteria:
Bacteria can’t “build buildings”. What will happen is that a worker bacterium will morph into a building. (Will be implemented in the second iteration only)
Bacteria have a lifecycle, i.e. they have a limited lifespan and will die eventually. The rate at which they age literally depends on where they are currently located. Because the whole thing is happening inside the human body, some parts will have different surface temperature and pH values and therefore the bacteria will age quicker if you decided to build a colony at an unsuitable place.
Bacteria will always regenerate, but because of the aging process bacteria’s max HP will be reducing over time until it reaches 0 and dies.
Nano-robots:
All robots are battery powered and therefore they have a limited charge. The charge is used up all the time even when the unit is idle. The energy consumption is higher if unit moves or fights. The only way to recharge a unit’s battery is to place it close to the charging station, but the station has a small limited radius and is expensive to build. If a unit happened to run out of charge, it will shut off and become unoperational, so it is every important to make sure that a unit is fully charged before sending it away. This was done to counteract the disadvantage of bio units because of their aging. A nano unit that was shut down could be “eaten” by the bacteria to get the resource they were made from (not implemented yet).

The game will have 3 different resources:
Glucose: the most important resource, the source of energy for both factions. Bacteria can get it by building a ‘Glucose Filter’ near a blood stream and filter out the glucose from it. Alternatively ‘Farms’ can be built which will generate glucose as well. Nano faction can only build a glucose filter.
Protein: a basic building block. Can be gathered (like wood) around the map by harvesting the protein cells.
Ethanol: very rare resource can only be extracted from pores that are located around the map by building an ethanol extractor on top of it. (In the same way that green stuff is extracted in Starcraft)

The above features are about 50% of what I want to have in the final version. I will keep adding the new ones as the development goes on. Thing is I’m not much of a designer, my modelling skills are intermediate at best and my texturing skills are non-existent. I would rather concentrate on engine development.
The final game will also have a proper GUI resembling the interfaces of a typical RTS’s, i.e. the bottom and top panel, command buttons etc.

So far I have modelled (but not textured) 75% of the units and implemented most of the features. I’m going to make it downloadable in a few days after I play with it myself for a while.

I would like to hear any feedback on what I’m doing and ideally I would really appreciate if someone decided to work on this one with me. I need someone who knows how to texture and some of my models need more work as well.

[-Archmage-]

Wow, very interesting, I'll certainly test this!!!

[Gabbe]

The first i though were, StarCraft Copy, but since you said you were working on the engine most of the time, i thought, "hey, thats something my mod could use!", and here you go, i guess, if you keep us updated, this will become a popular thread..

[tiger]

Neat Idea but I think if you make the health tick down it goes like this  3, 2, 1, 0, -1, -2, -3

It just goes minus forever.
But I never tried it in megaglest.
Good luck

[pullo]

Neat Idea but I think if you make the health tick down it goes like this  3, 2, 1, 0, -1, -2, -3

It just goes minus forever.
But I never tried it in megaglest.
Good luck

I'm not reducing the current HP, but a MAX HP

[ElimiNator]

Neat Idea but I think if you make the health tick down it goes like this  3, 2, 1, 0, -1, -2, -3

It just goes minus forever.
But I never tried it in megaglest.
Good luck

I'm not reducing the current HP, but a MAX HP

You can't reduse max HP, can you?

[John.d.h]

This sounds really cool, and a really interesting/different concept!  I'll definitely be looking forward to this.

You can't reduse max HP, can you?

You did read where he said he's modifying the engine, right?

[jda]

“The player will manage a colony of bacterial infection inside a human body, the goal is to spread the disease across the entire organism. The player will have to fight the immune cells as well as the nano-robots that were put there by the doctors to fight the disease.” So basically in my mod a player will be able to choose between two factions: the bacteria and nano-robots.

What about the natural immune cells? Will they be implemented as an "independent AI controlled "effect" (rather than an actual faction)? Or will you later make an "immune cells" faction? Or was that just pretty rethorics?...

Bacteria will always regenerate, but because of the aging process bacteria’s max HP will be reducing over time until it reaches 0 and dies.

Interesting. That will allow the bacteriae to reconver from being attacked while at the same time being susceptible to the passing of time (ageing). Nice.

The game will have 3 different resources:
Glucose: the most important resource, the source of energy for both factions. Bacteria can get it by building a ‘Glucose Filter’ near a blood stream and filter out the glucose from it. Alternatively ‘Farms’ can be built which will generate glucose as well. Nano faction can only build a glucose filter.
Protein: a basic building block. Can be gathered (like wood) around the map by harvesting the protein cells.
Ethanol: very rare resource can only be extracted from pores that are located around the map by building an ethanol extractor on top of it. (In the same way that green stuff is extracted in Starcraft)

Ethanol?!? What gives? What can your factions do with it?!? Wouldn't it be more reasonable (given as I take you will only have three different resources) to have something like Vitamins or Minerals instead...?

Anyways, sounds very interesting. Keep it up and good luck!

[John.d.h]

I think it would be cool to have the immune cells (leukocytes) as an aggressive neutral faction, since they'd probably be trying to attack both the bacteria and the nanobots, since they wouldn't know the difference between the two "invader" groups.  A body's white blood cell count goes up in the presence of an infection, maybe they should multiply as the other faction build more units in the area.  You could have certain spots on the map that are spawning points that would slowly produce WBCs, and then spew them out in huge numbers when one of the other factions encroaches on their territory.

[Omega]

Woo! Sounds fantastic Pullo. I wish you best of luck and hope you complete it!

Be sure to post your progress as you go along. This is sure to be quite interesting.

[pullo]

You can't reduse max HP, can you?

No, but i've made a workaround that will make a player think that it's the maxHP that is reducing.

Ethanol?!? What gives? What can your factions do with it?!? Wouldn't it be more reasonable (given as I take you will only have three different resources) to have something like Vitamins or Minerals instead...?

Yeah, i wasnt sure about ethanol (although a body have traces of ethanol there and there). I can change the name any time, it's a 20 sec job but before that I need to think of something else. The idea behind this resource is that's it's rare and basically acts like gold in the original Glest.

immune cells? Will they be implemented as an "independent AI controlled "effect" (rather than an actual faction)? Or will you later make an "immune cells" faction? Or was that just pretty rethorics?...

yes it will be a separate ai only controlled faction but it will only be implemented in the second version.

I think it would be cool to have the immune cells (leukocytes) as an aggressive neutral faction, since they'd probably be trying to attack both the bacteria and the nanobots, since they wouldn't know the difference between the two "invader" groups.  A body's white blood cell count goes up in the presence of an infection, maybe they should multiply as the other faction build more units in the area.  You could have certain spots on the map that are spawning points that would slowly produce WBCs, and then spew them out in huge numbers when one of the other factions encroaches on their territory.

sounds very good.

[John.d.h]

Just to expand on my previous post, it would be cool if you could add a "garrison" feature, where the immune system's spawn points would slowly produce and store WBCs, and then release all of them when an intruder shows up.  These cells would begin to age and die like bacteria once released, but would stay ageless when they are still in storage.  While both factions have to fight the WBCs, only the bacteria faction can destroy the spawn points.  The nanobots aren't supposed to hurt the body, so they simply have to avoid the spawn points.

Regarding resources, I agree with jda that ethanol seems a bit strange.  Glucose and protein are both great, but ethanol doesn't seem to fit with the other two, since it's produced by bacteria through fermentation, rather than gathered.  If you can make it so they gather glucose and transform it into ethanol, then that will make a lot more sense.

[pullo]

Regarding resources, I agree with jda that ethanol seems a bit strange.  Glucose and protein are both great, but ethanol doesn't seem to fit with the other two, since it's produced by bacteria through fermentation, rather than gathered.  If you can make it so they gather glucose and transform it into ethanol, then that will make a lot more sense.

It can be done but I need that rare and expensive resource that is hard to find. It is used for building the expensive units. Currently this is how ethanol "looks" like:


The first image shows the ethanol "pores" and the second is the building that you build on top of it. Then it starts automatically extract it. Now if we can rename it from ethanol to something more realistic it would be great.

[John.d.h]

Since it's something that's scarce, it could be some kind of micronutrient, either a specific one or "micronutrients"/"microminerals" in general.  Iron seems to me like the best one, since it would be extremely important for the Nanobots, and also required (in smaller amounts) by the Bacteria.  The resource could also be hemoglobin (red blood cells), since that would be a likely source of iron.  Although hemoglobin is all over the place in the body, I think I have an idea for making it more scarce.

What I'm thinking is that the RBCs and WBCs could come from the same pores (since they're both blood), so in order to harvest hemoglobin, you have to kill the WBCs and build an extractor on top of their pore.  Once the extractor is in place, the pore stops producing WBCs, but if the extractor is destroyed then it starts back up again.  This also makes it possible to infiltrate the enemy base and destroy their extractor, thus unleashing the wrath of the immune system on them.  Of course, since it's an important resource, each faction could start with one already-captured pore, but they'd have to fight the immune system (or each other) to gain more.

This would certainly make it scarce, since it would be harder to acquire and you might lose some of your units capturing the pore.  Add onto that the possibility of attacking and destroying a pore and it becomes very scarce indeed, although it should probably regrow after a short while.  Depending on how much work it would take to alter the engine this way, you could have certain spots on the map that are possible places for a pore to appear, and when one is destroyed (or exhausted) it regrows in a random possible spot somewhere else on the map after a short time (maybe about one minute).

Micronutrients are nutrients needed throughout life in small quantities. They are dietary minerals needed by the human body in very small quantities (generally less than 100micrograms/day) as opposed to macrominerals which are required in larger quantities. The Microminerals or trace elements include at least iron, cobalt, chromium, copper, iodine, manganese, selenium, zinc and molybdenum.

Iron distribution is also regulated because many bacteria require iron, so restricting its availability to bacteria (generally by sequestering it inside cells) can help to prevent or limit infections.

Hemoglobin (also spelled haemoglobin and abbreviated Hb or Hgb) is the iron-containing oxygen-transport metalloprotein in the red blood cells of vertebrates,[1] and the tissues of some invertebrates. ... Hemoglobin is also found in outside red blood cells and their progenitor lines. Other cells that contain hemoglobin include the A9 dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra, macrophages, alveolar cells, and mesangial cells in the kidney. In these tissues, hemoglobin has a non-oxygen-carrying function as an antioxidant and a regulator of iron metabolism.[4]

[jda]

Before I saw all of John.d.h.'s new ideas, I'd remembered something: all white blood cells are produced inside the bones' marrow. In case your maps actually do relate somehow...

Of course, this means the "pores" aproach by john somehow drifts away from this aproach. Well, sort of...
I'm not sure where hemoglobin comes from. However, being that it is a meta-protein and proteins come directly from the digestion of food...  John's idea just wouldn't make sense...

Still, it would make an interesting gameplay...

 

[pullo]

What I'm thinking is that the RBCs and WBCs could come from the same pores (since they're both blood), so in order to harvest hemoglobin, you have to kill the WBCs and build an extractor on top of their pore.  Once the extractor is in place, the pore stops producing WBCs, but if the extractor is destroyed then it starts back up again.  This also makes it possible to infiltrate the enemy base and destroy their extractor, thus unleashing the wrath of the immune system on them.  Of course, since it's an important resource, each faction could start with one already-captured pore, but they'd have to fight the immune system (or each other) to gain more.

This is a very good idea John, I like it. But I also have to take into the account that I already have the blood streams on the map represented by rivers I have changed the water colour from blue to red (it is rendered pink for some reason but I hope that some of the engine experts might help me on this). I did this rough scene in 3ds max when I was presenting my project proposal in college:


So what I'm trying to show is that thing on the right, it's a glucose filter that sucks out the blood and filters the glucose out, so it's the filter that will deal with RBCs. But I think that the pores could be a source of WBCs only. Anyway doing what you have described will require a lot of engine modification and will most likely be included only in the second iteration.

I'm planning to upload my first version in a few days so stay tuned

[pullo]

wow so many new ideas, im very glad to hear all the input. I think it would help if you could see a game first and then we could start improving it and adding the new features. Like I've said in my first post my graphics skills arent that good, so if anybody is interested in steping in and doing some of the modelling and/or texturing it would help and it would speed up the proccess a lot as I will concetrate on the engine more.

[jda]

I did this rough scene in 3ds max when I was presenting my project proposal in college:

WOW, that looks amazing!  

So what I'm trying to show is that thing on the right, it's a glucose filter that sucks out the blood and filters the glucose out, so it's the filter that will deal with RBCs.

And what's that exactly in the pic? That white thing just above the "Commands" box or rather that "rocketed" thing that just looks lika a differente unit than the other two?

I'm planning to upload my first version in a few days so stay tuned

Sweet!  

[pullo]

That white thing just above the "Commands" box.

yes, this one. the rocketed thing is a nano-robot.

I think it would be interesting if I post the units that going to be present in the game:
The ones coloured will be implemented in version 2.

BIO MOVING:
Opus - a worker unit, collects resources and creates 'buildings'. Cheap to create and has a long life cycle
Bacillus Velox - a lightweight version of Bacillus Gravis, cheaper to create.
Fornicatus - a unit that squirts acid into enemies to destroy them, useless in close fights. Expensive to create.
Bacillus Gravis - heavy, slow and expensive unit, grows longer than other units.
Velox - an elite unit, the strongest, quickest and the most expensive unit of all.
Carina - a special bio unit that can carry other units inside of itself. Has a very high level of HP which lets to carry numerous units to the destination intact.
Subtergum - a special unit that goes under the tissue and becomes invisible to the enemy. Can pop out from the tissue when needed.

BIO STATIONARY:
Pelagus - a main building. Opus (worker) units are created here. Also used to store resources.
Glucose Filter - a blood filter that can be placed beside an artery to extract sugar from the blood.
Agriterium - a farm where small bacteria can be grown and later used for food.
Ethanol Extractor - a plant that extract ethanol from the sources
Storage - a structure where workers can put gathered resources.
DNA Center - a place where a user can do miscellaneous upgrades
Infelix - basic military building to create Bacillus Gravis and Bacillus Velox and Fornicatus
Murus - a protective shield made to defend from frequent attacks
Fornicatus Positum - a protective stationary bacterium that squirts acid into enemies

NANOROBOT MOVING:
Worker - a worker unit, collects resources and constructs buildings.
Lumendroid - quick, cheap and light nano robot.
Shooter - a unit that squirts ethanol into enemies. Expensive to create.
Calcaris - a very fast nano robot that uses jet pulse engine for movement. Very expensive to build
Vexodroid - a special robot unit. It has an ability to throw large chunks of carbon stones from distant location to destroy bacteria mechanically.
Renoid - a special robot unit that has an ability to repair other units. Some resources are needed for repairs.
Infantroid - slow and heavy robot, has massive shield and long battery life

NANOROBOT STATIONARY:
Nano Center - a main building. Opus (worker) units are created here. Also used to store resources.
Glucose Filter - a blood filter that can be placed beside an artery to extract sugar from the blood.
Storage - a structure where workers can put gathered resources.
I-Plant - basic military building to create Infantroid and Lumendroid
E-Charger - a special building that is used a charging station for all robots
Research Center - a place where a user can upgrade its technologies and open new units
Ethanol Extractor - a plant that extract ethanol from the sources
Infra heater - a defensive structure that heats everything around to a high temperature and therefore destroying any bacteria that enters the area

[tiger]

this looks very very COOL!

[ultifd]

Wow.... z.     

I'm planning to upload my first version in a few days so stay tuned 

Can't wait. 

[John.d.h]

Hmm... what if the pores are lymph nodes and the resource (instead of hemoglobin) is something in the lymphatic system?  I can't think of anything in lymph that isn't in blood plasma, though.

I think it would be interesting if I post the units that going to be present in the game

Looks great so far.

Infra heater - a defensive structure that heats everything around to a high temperature and therefore destroying any bacteria that enters the area

Awesome.

Of course, this means the "pores" aproach by john somehow drifts away from this aproach. Well, sort of...
I'm not sure where hemoglobin comes from.

Red and white blood cells are both produced in the marrow.

[jda]

Of course, this means the "pores" aproach by john somehow drifts away from this aproach. Well, sort of...
I'm not sure where hemoglobin comes from.

Red and white blood cells are both produced in the marrow.

Well, interesting as that is (both for pullo's faction as regardless of it), hemoglobin is NOT the same as red blood cells (the iron in hemoglobin that is present in the red cells is higly responsible for the red color in those cells though ).
So... the "rare" substance be red blood cells?... (well, it should be about as rare as hemoglobin so... ) Yeah, acording to former assumptions, that should work.

@ Pullo:
Haven't looked extensively at the techtree, but for what I've seen, looks good (specially the final version).

[wciow]

This is certainly something a bit different from your average mod. 

I would love to help you out with some modeling but its probably not a good idea if you have deadlines to meet for college. I mod as a hobby e.g. slowly.

Also I'm sure some of the coders aroundhere would like to take a look at any engine mods you've made.

[pullo]

I would love to help you out with some modeling but its probably not a good idea if you have deadlines to meet for college. I mod as a hobby e.g. slowly.

Cool thanks I could definately use some of the help. College deadlines are not the issue as I'm not specialising in 3D development so I'm not really graded on it.

Also I'm sure some of the coders aroundhere would like to take a look at any engine mods you've made.

I'll be glad to share my code once I tidy it up, refactor some of the stuff and make the features more reusable for other mods. Currently some features that I've programmed are very specific to my game.