Author Topic: Megaglest multiplayer discussion  (Read 6417 times)

titi

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Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« on: 29 March 2010, 23:00:56 »
Here are some thoughts about glest and multiplayer:

In general we aim for
- more easy way to setup multiplayer games
- masterserver to provide open servers
- chat lobby in the masterserver

If you open a server:
The server selects map,techtree and tilesets and he selects the ai players and opens the slots.
( Now he can give some options for the game, like "all players use same faction" and so on, but this will be done later )
In addition he has to choose if it will be just a local game or if its provided on the masterserver too.
If everything is ready he says "open game".
Now the server cannot change map and techtree any more and the clients can connect to this server.
If all clients establish they are ready to play, the server can start the game...

If you are a client:
If you want to play a local game you can either enter the ip of the server ( like its done now ), or you press the "find servers" button and then you can choose one of the open servers ( usually only one  ). Now you can connect to this server.
If you want to play a internet game, you get a new menu where all open servers all listed and details about their setup and state are shown( only those which fits for your operating system ). Now you choose one of these servers and say connect. ( it should still be possible to enter a server ip manually like its done now )

Once the client is connected he sees everything whats setup on the server. He can choose a free slot and a faction he wants to play.
If this is done he establishs by pressing a "ready to play"-button or check a checkbox. Now he has to wait until the server starts....

What do you think of this?


« Last Edit: 3 May 2010, 09:51:04 by titi »
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ElimiNator

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #1 on: 29 March 2010, 23:27:46 »
Sounds very good to me.  :D

- You should be able to play more the 1 faction in multiplayer.
- When you conect to a Network slot you can pick your faction, not the host.
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titi

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #2 on: 29 March 2010, 23:34:55 »
Sounds very good to me.  :D

- You should be able to play more the 1 faction in multiplayer.
- When you conect to a Network slot you can pick your faction, not the host.

Thats what I said :) . The server maybe can limit the choice to some or one faction for everyone (one day), but all players can choose from these allowed factions.
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ElimiNator

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #3 on: 30 March 2010, 02:55:33 »
Ok,  :)  It sounds good.  :D
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jda

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #4 on: 30 March 2010, 20:48:07 »
It's been like two or three years since I last played it, but I used to kick back at playing BZFlag over the Internet (if you don't know the game, it's a CTF type of game where you control a battle tank - with lots of weapons and bonuses to capture and use from the map (or an enemy tank!), really whacky!).

A great thing about it was you could join at any time in the game! No need to wait for "game start".
The masterserver details (on the menus where you chose which one to connect to) included, amongst other infos, how many players each team had on and you could still choose any team which sometimes wasn't fair, but usually people chose the team that had less players so most of the time it was levelled.

You could also leave at any given time. You could actually also automatically get kicked out of the game for lagging! (first you'd get a warning, a little later if it continued, you'd get kicked; usually closing some open app you had on your PC would cut the lag off). This was important as different people had different connection speeds (and hosts; your tank was entirely controlled by your PC which meant some had so called "modified machines" (cheats), really a nag :P).

Naturally, in BZFlag, getting in and out of the game on a whim was ok as you controlled nothing more than a unit and it was setup so that units that were there for longer had little chance of having an edge over the others (you might have caught a better weapon or some bonus item but you could only use one at any given time so it wasn't that important).
In (Mega)Glest this is very different. If you get in when all the other factions already have their strongest units, you'll be dead in no time... :( Still... I guess, in a way... it could be kind of a challenge for the newcomer and could keep the game going for longer for those already there. Potentially, the game could go on virtually "forever", where you would get in, slaughter as much as you could and then leave when you're tired of it.  8)

So... in brief:
1. You probably want to setup some kind of anti-lag system on the masterserver so it can kick out players who make the whole game unplayable because they have crappy connections.
2. You could eventually setup the masterserver (as an option the server would choose and the potential players would be informed of) to allow players to join at any time. The "normal" option of the game only starting when all players were ready should still be available.

Other than what I said before, Titi's plan sounds great! :) 8) :thumbup:

titi

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #5 on: 2 April 2010, 01:11:15 »
To join a game that is already running is not a really good idea for a game like glest.
I know it from several other games and its a nice feature and it fits to the gameplay in several cases, but not for something like glest!.

Maybe we will have a possibility to rejoin a game if your client crashed or whatever but I fear this will not be implemented very soon.
A feature that ( I hope ) we will have soon, is an automatic where leavers are taken over by cpu players or something like this, but thats all.
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jda

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #6 on: 2 April 2010, 15:27:23 »
To join a game that is already running is not a really good idea for a game like glest.
I know it from several other games and its a nice feature and it fits to the gameplay in several cases, but not for something like glest!.
That's alright, I figured it woul be somewhat inapropriate and hugely difficult to workaround (in the sense you would actually have to make it a gameplay different than the current one). It's cool. :)

Quote
Maybe we will have a possibility to rejoin a game if your client crashed or whatever but I fear this will not be implemented very soon.
Nice. 8)
Quote
A feature that ( I hope ) we will have soon, is an automatic where leavers are taken over by cpu players or something like this, but thats all.
Even nicer! 8)  :thumbup: Yeah, it would really suck if your network ally all of a sudden left the game you had been playing with him/her... Very nice to have an AI player step in. ;)

softcoder

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #7 on: 29 April 2010, 08:46:17 »
So far we are making great progress with extending multi-player. Here is what we have in the code in SVN so far:

- Ability for clients to see the server settings for the configured game real-time
- Ability for clients to select the faction and team they want (given the techtree selected by the server operator)
- Ability to auto-check that selected map, tileset and techtree are available and have the same content on server and clients
- Testing Cross platform play (between Windows and Linux) and so far it is working well.

The next release will definately be an exciting one!
« Last Edit: 29 April 2010, 15:03:19 by softcoder »

Super Tom

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #8 on: 29 April 2010, 13:02:22 »
Hi, Softcoder it all sounds really great, but when the official version will be released then? Tomorrow or the day after tomorrow???

[update by titi: it will take 1-3 more weeks, but we are getting offtopic here.]        ]
« Last Edit: 29 April 2010, 13:39:09 by titi »

Gabbe

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #9 on: 29 April 2010, 13:52:40 »
Our LAN party over here at norway uses megaglest, and the only thing bothering them is that the maps are too small
« Last Edit: 7 May 2010, 17:51:13 by @kukac@ »

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #10 on: 30 April 2010, 06:55:44 »
Good news, another successful 4 human player LAN game with 3 linux and 1 windows box. I think we will likely put out a developer version of 3.3.5 for testing and feedback from the community. The only thing left right now is a bug that Titi needs to fix related to clients selecting their network slot.

Next will be working on the master server.

ultifd

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #11 on: 30 April 2010, 08:31:22 »
Great to hear.  :thumbup:
Your game did not go out of sync?  ::) Cool.  :)
"Can't wait."  :O

titi

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #12 on: 30 April 2010, 22:18:07 »
Some thoughts about what information is given to the master server from a server when opening a game:

general info:
glest version, platform, binary compile date

game info:
Title of the server , ip-address

game setup info:
tech, map, tileset, open slots and connected clients


Info shown on the clients server browser list:

Title of the server, tech, map, open slots, connected clients ,glest version
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ultifd

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #13 on: 15 May 2010, 01:02:33 »
Well now it is much better than before.  :thumbup:
Anyways, we should be able to see the game in a multiplayer game if we die...like the one person said during today's multiplayer game  ::) ...
Maybe a special hotkey...or something like this.  :|
What, we want people to just wait...if they lose? That isn't fun...  ::)

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #14 on: 15 May 2010, 03:13:03 »
Yah, once they lose then they become a observer.
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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #15 on: 15 May 2010, 07:49:47 »
Yeah, if they want to...  ::)

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #16 on: 15 May 2010, 11:56:39 »
Done. When you lose a game, fog of war is automatically turned off so you can view the rest of the players battles. NExt release will have this.

titi

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #17 on: 15 May 2010, 14:26:14 »
On the one hand this is a good idea, but you may also cheat with this! I also thought about this but its not so easy to make it fair:
The observer can give hints to other players for example telling him about secret bases or incoming attacks.
Also this observer can study your gametactics ....
The minimum requirement is forbidden team chat, so that everyone can see whats going on.

Later this is a typical addon for a votingsystem. Dead players can request to get observer mode and the others vote yes or no.

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jda

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #18 on: 15 May 2010, 15:13:15 »
I almost totally agree with you, titi.

What I don't agree with is the voting system to allow a player who lost to keep observing the game. That might lead to "What, you don't trust me?!" replies to "No" votes and stir up a bad mood amongst the players...

I think the fairest sollution will be for a player who lost to get "kicked out" but he/she should still be able to see the final stats when the game is over. :thumbup:

ultifd

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #19 on: 15 May 2010, 20:10:27 »
I think the fairest sollution will be for a player who lost to get "kicked out" but he/she should still be able to see the final stats when the game is over. :thumbup:
Well, it is already like that, but they have to stay till the whole game is over.  ::) Which can be a very long time in some instances...  ::)
I agree with you titi...maybe make it if people are on the same team, then they can only see what their old  teammate(s) are seeing?  ::) Still somewhat maybe cheating...but...people would be more satisfied  ::)
Quote
What I don't agree with is the voting system to allow a player who lost to keep observing the game. That might lead to "What, you don't trust me?!" replies to "No" votes and stir up a bad mood amongst the players...
We just need trust, of course, many of us don't...like a 50 to 70 chance we do  ::)


jda

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #20 on: 15 May 2010, 20:29:20 »
I almost totally agree with you, titi.

What I don't agree with is the voting system to allow a player who lost to keep observing the game. That might lead to "What, you don't trust me?!" replies to "No" votes and stir up a bad mood amongst the players...

I think the fairest sollution will be for a player who lost to get "kicked out" but he/she should still be able to see the final stats when the game is over. :thumbup:
Well, it is already like that, but they have to stay till the whole game is over.  ::) Which can be a very long time in some instances...  ::)
What I thinking was to implement some way the "dead" players could look at it later (without necessarily staying connected of course). I think the simplest aproach might be to keep a screenshot of the endgame stats on the masterserver for say 24 hours. The link to this might be randomly generated (something like
Code: [Select]
http://masterserver.ip/match_dfdsauf932r8yfg4.tga ) and defined just before the game starts and displayed to every player that had their own play ended (so he/she can look at it later).
Possibly implemente a warning system someway that let each defeated player know the game had ended might be added later (or not).

Quote
I agree with you titi...maybe make it if people are on the same team, then they can only see what their old  teammate(s) are seeing?  ::) Still somewhat maybe cheating...but...people would be more satisfied  ::)
I didn't see titi say that! Sorry...  ;D :-[
And I don't think that would be "cheating", at least from the defeated player's team's perspective. :P

Quote
Quote
What I don't agree with is the voting system to allow a player who lost to keep observing the game. That might lead to "What, you don't trust me?!" replies to "No" votes and stir up a bad mood amongst the players...
We just need trust, of course, many of us don't...like a 50 to 70 chance we do  ::)
50 to 70 % chance you're trusted is clearly not enough. Furthermore, I though the masterserver would also serve to increase the Glest community (that might come to this forum or not) so... you might get all sorts coming and you who are already "in" might prefer some sorts to NOT have the chance to reveal their "sort"! :P
Keep it simple! ;) "Trust" is never simple! :P
« Last Edit: 5 April 2016, 15:49:56 by filux »

ultifd

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #21 on: 15 May 2010, 22:00:07 »
That's weird...I did not see Softcoder's post... ::) So, it is already implemented... hmm...  ::)
I almost totally agree with you, titi.

What I don't agree with is the voting system to allow a player who lost to keep observing the game. That might lead to "What, you don't trust me?!" replies to "No" votes and stir up a bad mood amongst the players...

I think the fairest sollution will be for a player who lost to get "kicked out" but he/she should still be able to see the final stats when the game is over. :thumbup:
Well, it is already like that, but they have to stay till the whole game is over.  ::) Which can be a very long time in some instances...  ::)
What I thinking was to implement some way the "dead" players could look at it later (without necessarily staying connected of course). I think the simplest aproach might be to keep a screenshot of the endgame stats on the masterserver for say 24 hours. The link to this might be randomly generated (something like
Code: [Select]
http://masterserver.ip/match_dfdsauf932r8yfg4.tga ) and defined just before the game starts and displayed to every player that had their own play ended (so he/she can look at it later).
Possibly implemente a warning system someway that let each defeated player know the game had ended might be added later (or not).
I guess that would be a good way...although I wonder how...
Hmm...most people usually take a screenshot of the ending stats...  ::)

Quote
Quote
I agree with you titi...maybe make it if people are on the same team, then they can only see what their old  teammate(s) are seeing?  ::) Still somewhat maybe cheating...but...people would be more satisfied  ::)
I didn't see titi say that! Sorry...  ;D :-[
And I don't think that would be "cheating", at least from the defeated player's team's perspective. :P
Actually, I was suggesting that. Unless he actually said/meant that...but still good  ::)  :O  :thumbup:
I see, yeah, depends...  ::)
Quote
Quote
Quote
What I don't agree with is the voting system to allow a player who lost to keep observing the game. That might lead to "What, you don't trust me?!" replies to "No" votes and stir up a bad mood amongst the players...
We just need trust, of course, many of us don't...like a 50 to 70 chance we do  ::)
50 to 70 % chance you're trusted is clearly not enough. Furthermore, I though the masterserver would also serve to increase the Glest community (that might come to this forum or not) so... you might get all sorts coming and you who are already "in" might prefer some sorts to NOT have the chance to reveal their "sort"! :P
Keep it simple! ;) "Trust" is never simple! :P
Well, we'll see...  ::)

MJR

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #22 on: 15 May 2010, 22:56:23 »
I see no reason why a person who lost can't remain with no chat and watch the rest of the game. Most card games places allow this.

ultifd

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #23 on: 15 May 2010, 23:06:06 »
I see no reason why a person who lost can't remain with no chat and watch the rest of the game. Most card games places allow this.
Depends on the person...not every one is truthful and such...  ::)

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Re: Megaglest multiplayer discussion
« Reply #24 on: 16 May 2010, 01:23:52 »
The latest 3.3.5 alpha1 allows this now. When a network player loses and says no to exit they can view the rest of the game play (fog of war is turned off and team chat is disabled).

- Eventually we should be able to add network slots with the type 'observer' to allow people to just watch battles

Thanks