Author Topic: Indians  (Read 4657 times)

mjace72

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Indians
« on: 26 April 2010, 02:55:42 »
I personally find the Indian faction to be the best in glest.  I find myself using them in all the games I play now.  I'm wondering if the author of this faction will be releasing new factions in the near future.

softcoder

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Re: Indians
« Reply #1 on: 26 April 2010, 05:11:47 »
We just finished a game last night (Windows vs Linux testing of Mega Glest) and I had thought Indians was the best for a long time. Until I used Romans! I was finally able to beat Indians using Romans (which have a lot of options and great units to help defaet Indians).

Titi (and his children) made Mega-Pack
Elimnator and Tiger made vbros packs

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Re: Indians
« Reply #2 on: 26 April 2010, 11:49:33 »
Cool, you use Romans! :D

Romans is a little over-powered.

</OT>

I always thought Indians were the weakest, and everything else was better.........
Egypt Remastered!

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mjace72

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Re: Indians
« Reply #3 on: 26 April 2010, 13:27:19 »
I have romans too and I had meant the Indians were the best in terms of the buildings, and especially the sound effects with the faction, the battle cries of selected units such as the stickfighters and shaman voice, when making the thunderbird is just priceless.  I haven't really stacked them up in terms of strength with the other factions though but if I do play a 3 player game(2 computer ultras) or team with another Indian faction(computer ultra) against 2 computer ultras, it seems my Indian teammate is always the first to go because there is never enough time to establish my base and get over there to help defend theirs too.  The battle is the end game and I wish there was more time for establishment, maybe more options to build different structures but I'm constantly under attack.  No complaints here though as I like the game and I think it's one of the best free games out there.

ultifd

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Re: Indians
« Reply #4 on: 26 April 2010, 22:43:20 »
Yes I agree, it is a really well worked on faction. Not perfect I suppose, but good enough...very...  ::)
 :thumbup:

wyvern

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Re: Indians
« Reply #5 on: 27 April 2010, 15:28:12 »
I think indians should expand their cavalry arm with a mounted archer and a mounted axethrower and they should add an iroquois clubman as a heavy unit. Indians still aren't as strong as tech mk2 though and I'm working on bringing up the megapack factions another notch to even out with mega tech you can see magic mk2 type a for more info

ultifd

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Re: Indians
« Reply #6 on: 27 April 2010, 23:29:27 »
I think it is fine...because Indians are balanced with the megapack/the mega**** in MG... not your  ::)
I think maybe titi or you could do that, but only for your pack  ::)

wyvern

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Re: Indians
« Reply #7 on: 27 April 2010, 23:53:32 »
I know I'm only gonna do it for my pack ::) ::)

ultifd

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Re: Indians
« Reply #8 on: 27 April 2010, 23:58:00 »
I see... hmm  ::)

mjace72

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Re: Indians
« Reply #9 on: 28 April 2010, 02:27:03 »
I think the fire golem in the indian faction should be replaced with something like a buffalo or bison, maybe a unique indian rider on it with the same characteristics as the fire golem.  The burning campfire and lighted totems are great.  I don't know if that's exclusive to megaglest because the fire didn't burn bright for me in the glest version.

Zoythrus

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Re: Indians
« Reply #10 on: 28 April 2010, 02:28:49 »
i personally think that the fire golem should just be removed all together (we all know that it's just a retex)

ultifd

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Re: Indians
« Reply #11 on: 28 April 2010, 02:33:28 »
I think the fire golem in the indian faction should be replaced with something like a buffalo or bison, maybe a unique indian rider on it with the same characteristics as the fire golem.  The burning campfire and lighted totems are great.  I don't know if that's exclusive to megaglest because the fire didn't burn bright for me in the glest version.
That us because particles were "added" to megaglest...  ::)

Umm...I think it is fine. Buffalo? Why have one if there is already a bull...  ::)
Even though it is just retextured, it is still ok...
besides, personally, I don't think titi has time to work on the megapack anymore...
not until megaglest is finished improving on its multiplayer...like I think when he spends his time working on glest, his priority is on megaglest...  ::) no offense  :|

But either of you could replace it and make a replacement for it by yourself I guess...  ::)

mjace72

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Re: Indians
« Reply #12 on: 28 April 2010, 03:04:14 »
I have no ability to create any kind of model.

ultifd

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Re: Indians
« Reply #13 on: 28 April 2010, 03:33:11 »
I have no ability to create any kind of model.
well...  ::)

We just finished a game last night (Windows vs Linux testing of Mega Glest) and I had thought Indians was the best for a long time. Until I used Romans! I was finally able to beat Indians using Romans (which have a lot of options and great units to help defaet Indians).
I think Romans is a bit un-balanced... too strong?  it seems to be like stronger than a lot of the other factions  ::)
Oh I mean Fantasy Romans...although...eh just Romans. There isn't anything like uh, historical Romans.  ::)

End OT  ::)

mjace72

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Re: Indians
« Reply #14 on: 30 April 2010, 03:31:10 »
Is it possible to replace the fire golem in the Indian faction with the wicker behemoth?  If so, will it be made at the campfire because the indian workers have no ritual command as is the way the wicker is made in the magic faction?  I'd like to make a custom tech tree, using the units already made, hoping this creation can help me better understand the process for when I do attempt to create something original.

ultifd

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Re: Indians
« Reply #15 on: 30 April 2010, 03:46:43 »
It is possible, but you probably have to do it yourself...or at least this change can not really be "public"...  ::)
But uh...there is a unit in Dark Magic that resembles the Wicker Behemoth, and it get produces out of something liek the campfire...  ::)
But yeah, it is possible.  :)

jda

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Re: Indians
« Reply #16 on: 30 April 2010, 09:42:21 »
I agree with softcoder, the indians are very powerful!

You just have to play them more Magic style than Tech style, i.e. early rushing the enenemy with Indians' very cost effective and rather fast early units. ;)
Se the Magic rush video to learn how to do it (you'll have to adapt that to the Indians though). The video is on ultifd's youtube channel though it was originally posted in some sticky thread about Glest videos a long time ago. ;)

The burning campfire and lighted totems are great.  I don't know if that's exclusive to megaglest because the fire didn't burn bright for me in the glest version.
As ultifd mentioned, the golem's particles (that's what the "burning campfire and lighted golems" use for that effect) are exclusive to the MegaGlest engine (at least so far, GAE might maybe add it in in the future I guess but they're working on other stuff; the original Glest development has been droped by the original team).
BUT... "particles" are NOT exclusive to MegaGlest!! They are what e.g. the Magic Battlemage's attacks are made of (like most other ranged effect!). What is exclusive to MegaGlest is those particles being used other than in attacks. ;) Every unit that has a part_proj.xml file, eventually a part_splash.xml too, on their root folder (where the unitname.xml file is too) uses particles in their attacks. ;) GAE actually adds more options to these ones and AFAIK MegaGlest doesn't (yet?).

Is it possible to replace the fire golem in the Indian faction with the wicker behemoth?  If so, will it be made at the campfire because the indian workers have no ritual command as is the way the wicker is made in the magic faction?  I'd like to make a custom tech tree, using the units already made, hoping this creation can help me better understand the process for when I do attempt to create something original.
You can indeed replace the Fire Golem with the Wicker Behemoth. The easiest way to do so is to just copy the Behemoth folder from Magic into the indians/units folder. Remove the units/fire_golem folder and change the name of the behemoth's folder to fire_golem and behemoth.xml to fire_golem.xml.
A better way would be to do everything I mentioned above except renaming the folder and file and instead edit all references to fire_golem to "point" at behemoth instead. This should be done in the building/unit that produces the fire golem and, possibly, in indians.xml too. It's all XML editing so it's easy. ;) Look at the Glest wikia or omega's Glest guide for more infos on the folder structure and the xml's. ;)
Actually, if you look at Magic's Initiate unit's xml, you'll see how a "Ritual" command can be added to some unit in Indians, say the Shaman. It's really a "build" command type. ;)

It is possible, but you probably have to do it yourself...or at least this change can not really be "public"...  ::)
Well, the Fire golem is, as mentioned in this thread, a retextured Magic Golem (and in MG with added particles). The Behemoth is the same. The Magic is part of the original Magitech tree which was released by the original Glest team under the Creative Commons Atribution Sharealike 3.0 Unported license, which means any derivative work must be released under the same license.
This means titi's Indians are probably released under the same CC-AS 3.0 license. Probably. But it might have been released under some dual licensing, i.e. the parts based on Megatech under CC-AS 3.0 and whatever is purelly tit0s work under some other. You'll have to check that yourself 'cause I'm not really aware. :P
In other words, you can modify any CC-AS 3.0 and publish your work as long as you thouroughly abide by the CC-AS 3.0 license, including releasing your work under the same license! ;) But you'll have to check whether the whole Indians faction was released under that license or rather under two or more licenses. ;)
« Last Edit: 30 April 2010, 23:05:34 by jda »

mjace72

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Re: Indians
« Reply #17 on: 30 April 2010, 13:23:24 »
Thank you both.  I'll have to look into some things and yes, if I did change anything, it's for my own personal use and not something I would go ahead and publish here.  I've been customizing some of the maps, not to gain an unfair advantage but to help alleviate some of the blocking the computer is doing.  I converted the Twilight Ruins map into a two versus two map with teammates sharing the same base, leaving two bases completely empty.  I used Indians as usual and had an Indian teammate(computer ultra) and as the game progressed there came a point I noticed my teammate wasn't in the battles, which I needed because I was playing against a mega(Woodsmen) and an ultra(Norsemen).  When I finally did get enough time to check my teammate tribe out, they had, and I counted, 12 Fire Golems all blocked in by campfires and beehives, they were on a building frenzy, even blocking me in with structures.  I had no choice but to destroy some of their buildings, which did free them up and they started again to produce troops as normal.

I'd like to make my own faction from scratch and have the Blender software, watched some tutorials on the youtube but still sit there looking at the start cube and have no idea what's going on.  Is there somewhere I can find some ready to go base models, and use them to build off of? 

I noticed some of the factions have slaves and some have workers, both serve the same purpose but I was thinking if you have a slave, it might be better that they come from another faction, maybe the Egyptian workers, doing the work for the Romans, Tech workers, being ones from the Indian faction.  It wouldn't work with the magic faction though as they can become troops themselves.  I would incorporate this thinking into my faction, if I was ever to make one.  There are enough factions out there now, that you can tell which ones are thrown together and which are more detailed and involved.  I wouldn't be critical of any of them, as they are all time consuming processes, and right now, better than anything I could make but I would want my units more detailed in realism and less toyish in structure.  I wouldn't be looking to make the strongest faction, but I'd want it to be an enjoyable one to play, one that can hold their own, and force you to use all your knowledge of the game to beat those factions that would be more powerful.

jda

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Re: Indians
« Reply #18 on: 30 April 2010, 14:05:53 »
The game mechanics (at least currently and in none of the three best know general purpose engines: original Glest, Glest Advanced Engine (GAE) or MegaGlest) does not allow a faction to control any unit you did not produce (hence you could not make a slave out of another faction's unit).
GAE does allow your units to affect other units in special ways (emanations, diseases and so on) but you can never control another player's unit.
So... the fact there are slaves in e.g. the Egyptian faction is just a matter of unit name choice. ;)

The first two video tutorials on the following page got me off the initial Blender shivers:
http://www.rab3d.com/tutorial_started.html#video
Also look in the Tools subforum, lots of nice tutorials, tips and links (the one above is on one of my posts). ;) And... you can ask questions too. ;)

I like your aproach to mod making. ;)  8) :thumbup:

EDIT: Titi's Conflict map is a very nice 2x2 map much like your own. Try it, it's on megapack v4 and (I think) megaglest too. ;)
« Last Edit: 30 April 2010, 14:07:58 by jda »

mjace72

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Re: Indians
« Reply #19 on: 30 April 2010, 14:22:00 »
Thank you, I'll check those tutorials out.
As for the slave idea, I was thinking more when I did complete a faction, with permission from whoevers workers I use, I would just add them into my faction as my workers, so they will be the actual workers from another faction in terms of appearance(not color though) but would actually be in my faction, giving you the ability to control them.

ultifd

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Re: Indians
« Reply #20 on: 30 April 2010, 22:49:15 »
You just have to play them more Magic style than Tech style, i.e. early rushing the enenemy with Indians' very cost effective and rather fast early units. ;)
Se the Magic rush video to learn how to do it (you'll have to adapt that to the Indians though). The video is on ultifd's youtube channel though it was originally posted in some sticky thread about Glest videos a long time ago. ;)
Actually it is on the Glest Team's Channel...  ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YilxYf8DbM

Quote
It is possible, but you probably have to do it yourself...or at least this change can not really be "public"...  ::)
Well, the Fire golem is, as mentioned in this thread, a retextured Magic Golem (and in MG with added particles). The Behemoth is the same. The Magic is part of the original Megatech tree which was released by the original Glest team under the Creative Commons Atribution Sharealike 3.0 Unported license, which means any derivative work must be released under the same license.
This means titi's Indians are probably released under the same CC-AS 3.0 license. Probably. But it might have been released under some dual licensing, i.e. the parts based on Megatech under CC-AS 3.0 and whatever is purelly tit0s work under some other. You'll have to check that yourself 'cause I'm not really aware. :P
In other words, you can modify any CC-AS 3.0 and publish your work as long as you thouroughly abide by the CC-AS 3.0 license, including releasing your work under the same license! ;) But you'll have to check whether the whole Indians faction was released under that license or rather under two or more licenses. ;)
I see.  :thumbup:

jda

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Re: Indians
« Reply #21 on: 30 April 2010, 23:03:58 »
LOL
I made a silly but potentially very confusing typo on my other post, noticed it only now that ultifd quoted me. ;D
The Magic faction is not on the "Megatech" but rather on "Magitech"! "Megatech" doesn't exist! :O

I'll correct my other post too. ;)

@ ultifd
Last time I noticed the Magic rush video was "on" your channel, but it was probably not "on" your channel but rather under "related videos"... ;D

ultifd

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Re: Indians
« Reply #22 on: 1 May 2010, 00:10:12 »
Yeah I noticed that too... there could be a megatech though...  ::)  :O  :thumbup:

Quote
Last time I noticed the Magic rush video was "on" your channel, but it was probably not "on" your channel but rather under "related videos"...
I see.  :|

jda

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Re: Indians
« Reply #23 on: 1 May 2010, 11:41:00 »
Yeah I noticed that too... there could be a megatech though...  ::)  :O  :thumbup:
Well, you have slightly a modified Magitech included in megaglest but it's bundled with other factions into a tree called Megapack. :P

mjace72

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Re: Indians
« Reply #24 on: 1 May 2010, 14:25:28 »
I finally used the Dark Magic faction and was impressed with it.  The sorceress with the head going completely around during summoning was great.  I found a large team of Dark Mages to be dominating as I destroyed the Indians.  I admit it was a computer easy game but I wanted to be able to see all the Dark Magic faction.  Why I put this in the Indians topic is that I tried to modify the Indian faction.  Not to release in any kind of way but just for my own personal enjoyment.  I wanted to put some of my favorite units together, not to build a dream team, but just simply for fun.  I wanted to do these things,
First I added the Oblivion Portal(Dark Magic) and temple(Persian?) to the Indian folder, added these structures to the Shaman xml as these buildings would only be created by the Shaman.  I wanted the portal to create only the Sorceress from the Dark Magic.  She would then summon the alliyp, Fire Golem and behemoth.  The campfire would no longer produce the fire golem.  I like the look of the Swordman from the Persian faction and he would be created from the temple after the Shaman built it.  I made a copy of Indians, and then a copy of all the unit folders I was adding, went through each xml document, making what I thought were the required changes but after I finished everything, it all failed, again and again at the loading page as I did trial and error but I finally gave up.  Things began to become unclear to me as I was researching, finding a reference to the archmage tower in the Thunderbird xml document really showed me I have no concept of anything.  Was I attempting the impossible here?  I think I'm just going to go ahead and wait for you guys to release more cool factions.