Author Topic: Abortion  (Read 10138 times)

xxcatmysteryxx

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Abortion
« on: 28 May 2010, 21:56:36 »
What do you think? I think women should have a choice to have an abortion because what if she gets pregnant by accident and she didn't want a kid

Gabbe

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #1 on: 28 May 2010, 21:57:54 »
why are you spamming topics here? is it to get you on the top topic starters stats?

xxcatmysteryxx

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #2 on: 28 May 2010, 21:59:49 »
why are you spamming topics here? is it to get you on the top topic starters stats?

No I don't really care and I'm not spamming :P

its 0ff-topic

Gabbe

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #3 on: 28 May 2010, 22:06:41 »
ok, yes i think they should have the option to choose.

xxcatmysteryxx

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #4 on: 28 May 2010, 22:16:38 »
ok, yes i think they should have the option to choose.

Some people probably mostly guys  don't think that i don't know why but yea.

anyways back in the old day women didn't have a choice to marry who they want the parents got to choose

And in Afghanistan the average family consists of about 7 kids its because they have no rights and no choice. The men beat them and allowed to do anything to them and they have no word in anything

Gabbe

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #5 on: 28 May 2010, 22:18:07 »
I have never gotten that, beat-and-rape thing, it is weird and awfull, it is much better to have a good relationship with someone :thumbup: :thumbup:

ultifd

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #6 on: 28 May 2010, 22:45:56 »
Optional...yeah.
Well, I think sometimes it is right and not really right...to..."abort".
Also, abortion conflicts with some religions...  ::)

Gabbe

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #7 on: 28 May 2010, 22:50:27 »
RELIGION INTERFER WITH WHATEVER YOU DO!

how come? when the baby is almost complete i think noone would want to abort, but their baby and property...

ultifd

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #8 on: 28 May 2010, 22:52:06 »
Not everything, just a good number of stuff... and not every religion  ::)
Well, mother's choice. Even if you weren't the mother, maybe the father, then maybe you would understand...  ::)

Gabbe

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #9 on: 28 May 2010, 22:56:38 »
are you a father [i could drag the joke about xxcatmystery you and arch a little further now but i won`t] ? i didn`t know that, but i think we have same opinion, but fathers are not allowed to interfer with these matters, atleast not in Norway

ultifd

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #10 on: 28 May 2010, 22:59:36 »
No, I'm not...  ::) Still, I know people...some people...
Yeah, but I am talking about the accidental pregnancies that happen...to adults...err... :|

xxcatmysteryxx

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #11 on: 28 May 2010, 23:04:41 »
No, I'm not...  ::) Still, I know people...some people...
Yeah, but I am talking about the accidental pregnancies that happen...to adults...err... :|

or idiotic teenagers that is underage and shouldn't even be having.. you know what

ultifd

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #12 on: 28 May 2010, 23:13:35 »
Yeah, well, sometimes, it just happens...
if it is that scenario,
it is even worse for the parent(s)...  ::)  :(

-Archmage-

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #13 on: 28 May 2010, 23:31:03 »
It's not the mothers choice to make.
The baby is not the mothers property, the same way I am not owned by anyone.
You hear about children being molested, and think "oh, that's terrible!", at the same time millions of babies just get scraped out of a women like trash and thrown away, and people say "oh, it's a mothers right".

It's a crime to kill a full grown person, but it's a "right" to slaughter a baby like it's a piece of trash, for goodness sake, the baby can't even defend itself, the adult can. Abortion is murder.

Even if a girl gets raped, that doesn't give her the right to murder an innocent baby! That's like a girl saying "a guy raped me, I'm going to go kill an innocent person".



Quote
And in Afghanistan the average family consists of about 7 kids its because they have no rights and no choice. The men beat them and allowed to do anything to them and they have no word in anything

That's as sick as abortion.



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having.. you know what

We're all mature here, no reason to say "you know what".
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ultifd

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #14 on: 28 May 2010, 23:54:23 »
Actually, some people are not so mature.
Anyways...It is the mother's choice. It is.
Oh well, there are more important issues in this world... good and bad...  :)  :(

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #15 on: 29 May 2010, 00:19:24 »
Quote
It is the mother's choice. It is.

How is it the mother's choice?
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John.d.h

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #16 on: 29 May 2010, 01:03:30 »
Oy vey... I was desperately hoping this was a topic that would never be brought up.  Will somebody please lock this before people start chopping off heads?  This is one of the most inflammatory issues in the world, and if this community can't even handle a simple evolution vs. creation debate, they sure as Hell can't handle abortion.

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #17 on: 29 May 2010, 01:08:54 »
Quote
Oy vey... I was desperately hoping this was a topic that would never be brought up.  Will somebody please lock this before people start chopping off heads?  This is one of the most inflammatory issues in the world, and if this community can't even handle a simple evolution vs. creation debate, they sure as Hell can't handle abortion.

I have to agree, I'll make a deal with all you guys, this gets locked if it turns into a firefight.
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xxcatmysteryxx

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #18 on: 29 May 2010, 01:41:28 »
i don't think it should be locked anyways it can be fun and its a good ways to grow as a community as learn about each other but yah i noticed the debate but it still hasn't been locked and we kinda get along well anyways the point of debates is to argue but not to a angry point

John.d.h

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #19 on: 29 May 2010, 01:50:46 »
i don't think it should be locked anyways it can be fun and its a good ways to grow as a community as learn about each other but yah i noticed the debate but it still hasn't been locked and we kinda get along well anyways the point of debates is to argue but not to a angry point
Be that as it may, abortion is very mature subject matter, and I don't think this community can handle it without serious consequences.  I know you're just trying to get a healthy debate going --and that's fine-- but if you've seen other debates about abortion, you know this is not going to be civil or friendly.  It's an emotionally-charged topic and people on all sides tend to get very upset/angry/offensive/offended.

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ultifd

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #20 on: 29 May 2010, 03:19:15 »
Yeah I agree with John.
Don't worry cat, there are other ways or topics to raise your post count...  ::) JK.

zombiepirate

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #21 on: 29 May 2010, 04:35:30 »
So is this topic officially closed then or do I get to put a few cents in first?

I honestly don't think the argument over abortion ever goes the right way. There is NO SUCH THING as abortion law whether legal or illegal, it's just a big gray line. Pro-Choice advocates argue that it's a woman's right. Pro-Life advocates argue that it is murder. Neither point is valid from the other side's view.

The argument that it is a woman's right holds no weight. We can pretty much take anything and throw the word "right" in front of it because it conveniences us, it doesn't change it's implications, nor does it make it a right. No one has the right to do whatever they want simply because it is convenient, it's not my right to rob a bank simply because I don't feel like working. In the same way it is not a woman's right to have an abortion simply because she does not want to have a baby.

The argument that abortion is murder is slightly closer to the real argument but still leaves the underlying issue in a big gray fog. The real thing we need to define EXPLICITLY is the definition of human. What is human then? The question extends far beyond whether or not we can end a pregnancy. It extends to when we can take someone in a coma off life support. When technology has gone far enough that we can produce genetically modified slaves, it extends to whether or not the slaves have rights or not. The question extends into copyright for pity's sake. Is this thing we have created human or can we copyright it and mass market it.

Another important note is that THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. I see very few religions out there that think killing bacteria is murder. Is it a sin to kill fish? A chicken?

A cow? (beware this murder we call BBQ is graphically intensive and not for the faint of heart)
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... A human fetus?

Now the real question of abortion is at what point during conception/growth/birth does a few cells turn from a parasite (We can kill it without worries) into a human (There's legal issues to sort through before we can kill it)?
« Last Edit: 29 May 2010, 04:37:44 by zombiepirate »

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #22 on: 29 May 2010, 05:03:04 »
A Human is an incredibly well designed, sentient being, capable of conscious thought, and possesses a will, as well as ethical understanding allowing them to know good from bad.

Good enough for yah? (I can imagine those exact words being said by some alien species.... :P)
Though for all we know, there may be many more incredible life-forms out there.

When you scrap out a half-developed baby you aren't just ending the life of a biological life-form, you're destroying the entire future of a sentient, intelligent, and conscious being, that has a will.
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zombiepirate

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #23 on: 29 May 2010, 05:37:04 »
A Human is an incredibly well designed, sentient being, capable of conscious thought, and possesses a will, as well as ethical understanding allowing them to know good from bad.

Good enough for yah? (I can imagine those exact words being said by some alien species.... :P)
Though for all we know, there may be many more incredible life-forms out there.

When you scrap out a half-developed baby you aren't just ending the life of a biological life-form, you're destroying the entire future of a sentient, intelligent, and conscious being, that has a will.

I wish that was good enough :( Life would be so much simpler then.
Sociopaths have no ethical understanding of good or bad (human or BBQ - pick one)
A person in a coma may not be defined as sentient (human or BBQ - pick one)
Also, "will" and "consciousness" must be defined as there can be many exceptions: for example when during pregnancy does the child gain "consciousness"? I don't have any child hood memories from when I was 2 (did I have conscious thought then?), and the brain is not fully developed until much later then that. Yet I'm quite certain that everyone would agree, that age group is, in fact, human. Also the definition of conscious may extend to many animals that are clearly not human.

Incredibly well designed is another gray area because that either applies to everything or nothing depending on beliefs. A solid definition of human should be able to be programmed into a computer.

As far as a definition for human goes, I haven't thought of anything solid yet either. Every time I think I have a simple definition I think of a simple exception. Likely the definition of human will be wrapped in thousands of pages of legal documentation and will never be sorted out fully. Remember the definition of human tells us what we have the right to arbitrarily destroy without a problem and what we as a society of humans (or are we...) need to protect.

Anyone up for going back in time a few thousand years where none of this really mattered?

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #24 on: 29 May 2010, 05:52:20 »
You're trying to make this more complicated than it is. It's not hard dude, it's simple.

The point is that it's murder to kill a born child, but not an un-born child, that's simply morally wrong.

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